Hamas has made Gaza unliveable, according to the UN


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A UN study has found that in the ten years since Hamas took control of Gaza the place has become unliveable for its residents.

A decade after the Islamist group Hamas seized Gaza, the Palestinian enclave is effectively unliveable for its 2 million people, with declining incomes, healthcare, education, electricity and fresh water, the United Nations said.

In a report examining humanitarian conditions in the territory, which Hamas took over in June 2007 after a brief conflict with forces loyal to the Palestinian Authority, the United Nations concludes the situation in Gaza is deteriorating “further and faster” than was forecast only a few years ago. “Across the board we’re watching de-development in slow motion,” Robert Piper, the UN Coordinator for Humanitarian Aid and Development Activities in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, told Reuters in an interview on Tuesday. “Every indicator, from energy to water to healthcare to employment to poverty to food insecurity, every indicator is declining. Gazans have been going through this slow motion de-development now for a decade.”

The article tries to lay the blame on everyone, including Israel, while somehow ignoring the corruption and terrorist roots of Hamas itself. Still, the real blame might belong to the people in Gaza themselves. After Israel unilaterally pulled out in an effort to exchange “land for peace,” the people of Gaza voted for their own leadership, and choose Hamas, a terrorist organization whose reason for existing is to kill Jews and destroy Israel. After making a poor decision like that, no one should be surprised it their circumstances immediately began to decline. We all get the government we deserve.

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69 comments

  • Cotour

    The solution of course?

    Give them much, much more money as per the previous policy of the last 30 (?) years. (SRCSM)

    Want different results? Try changing what you do.

    At some point there must be consequences to actions, maybe this Trump character will apply some?

  • Alex

    Do Palestinians not fight rightfully for the land that was taken from them by force by aliens and without any right to do so?

  • wayne

    Alex-
    no they don’t, and yes they have no right

    Mark Levin destroys all arguments of anti-Israel caller
    https://youtu.be/m0QbW-8IJbw
    (6:30)

  • To Alex: Yup, genocide and murder for the sake of territory and nation always appeals to you racist types. Yup, that’s pretty consistent.

    Note that Israel gave back Gaza to the Palestinians with no conditions. It was theirs again, to do as they wished. Had they used that opportunity to build a prospering, healthy and peaceful society, they would have gotten much cooperation from the Israelis, including increased trade. The result in the end would have been the lowering of tensions, and eventually the opening of borders so that all individuals, Israeli or Arab, could live wherever they wanted.

    Instead, the people in Gaza choose violence and war. They are reaping that choice now. And you celebrate it, because to you, land and race mean more than treating all humans with respect and decency.

  • geoffc

    @Alex No. The indigenous people are actually the Jews. Palestinian until the 1950’s meant the Jews living in the area. The land was lost in wars started by their co-religionist/brethren. Offensive wars should not be rewarded with territory. Modern Israel beat back attacks and earned the land in defending itself.

  • wodun

    The indigenous people are actually the Jews.

    The people before that were more like Greeks. And many of the modern Palestinians moved there for work in the late 1800’s and early part of the 1900’s. This isn’t surprising because people moved around the Ottoman Empire. I am not sure why the Ottomans don’t have to live by the consequences of the war they lost just like other countries did after WWI and WWII.

  • wodun

    Gaza is essentially run by Islamic Socialism, which is probably why our friends to the left like them so much.

  • Cotour

    One hundred years and more ago and throughout history this would have been settled in a very different way.

    Interests and powers would have massed and there would have been the potential for extreme violence if things were not worked out. There would have been conquest one way or another, and then there would have been peace in the region.

    As things stand now in our politically correct / social justice world this situation will never be resolved to anyone’s satisfaction.

  • hondo

    Regressing to their norm.
    Did anyone expect them to turn Gaza into the New Riviera?
    With or without conflict – this is them.

  • LocalFluff

    But… They held a democratic election when the Palestinian state was founded, And democracy is always good, my school teacher and all my journalists have always told me. Thus Palestina is the perfect country per definition.

    I suppose Gaza was well located to become a second UAE. But they prefered to just live off cash bribes (“development aid”) pouring in from European countries instead of allowing anyone doing anything productive. Good for them.

  • Commodude

    Alex, if the Arab countries were actually concerned about the “palestinians” they would have taken them in….

    But instead, they threw them out of Jordan and Egypt after finding out they couldn’t manage in a civilized society. Something about attempted coups not making the locals happy….

    Now, they’re used for a propaganda tool of the left to destabilize relations in the region.

  • Edward

    LocalFluff,
    You wrote: “They held a democratic election when the Palestinian state was founded, And democracy is always good, my school teacher and all my journalists have always told me. Thus Palestina is the perfect country per definition.

    Then your school teacher mis-taught you. With democratic elections, you get the government that you deserve. If you elect an evil government that does not care for you, then that is what you get. Even the NAZIs were democratically elected.

    Democracy is not inherently good, but it gives the governed population its opportunity to determine how they are to be governed. Those who live in Gaza preferred the destruction of Israel over their own welfare.

  • LocalFluff

    In most of the Western world, the word “democracy” is used as a synonym for “good”. Whenever anything is bad in society, for example during a recession, people claim that it is not democratic. The anti EU and anti immigration movement in Europe is all about claiming that their democratic countries aren’t democratic. Nigel Farage is full of it. Russia is not democratic because it is not good. When you speak to a European, “democratic” means exactly the same thing as “good”. Same word spelled in two different ways.

  • LocalFluff wrote, “When you speak to a European, ‘democratic’ means exactly the same thing as ‘good.'”

    This is a great example of very sloppy thinking, and helps explain why western civilization is having problems today. It also illustrates why I and many other commenters here consider it crucial to use words carefully, and to understand their meaning before using them. When people don’t do this, their thinking process becomes inconsistent or unclear, and slip slides all over the place, making it impossible for anyone to discuss anything with them. Worse, it will make it impossible for they themselves to think clearly or to understand what is being discussed.

  • Alex

    @ Edward:

    It is not obvious that Palestinian people have to pay a price by being displaced from their homeland, for something, what happened in WW-II and in which they were not involved by any means. I am supporting the right of any indigenous ethnicity, race, culture and people to exist as such and keep their homeland also in future. It seems to me that not everybody here share this view, specifically those which are very fast in name calling, an approach which is normally applied by leftists. There is no way around, people of Israel and Palestinian people have to live together, there is no another option.

  • LocalFluff

    Robert,
    In the beginning was the Word. Words are very very important. Only one skinny letter stands between a word and a world. Since I’m learning English, and it is a topic of never ending mysteries, I look up words ten times a day. And I’ve discovered that looking them up etymologically is much more enlightening and memorable than a simple word list. Surprisingly often, words that today our Germanic languages borrowed from Latin, were once borrowed by the Romans from the Germans to begin with! I recommend the site below for words.
    http://www.etymonline.com/

  • LocalFluff

    My favorite word used in actual legal text, is: Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz. I’m impressed that Google translates gets it perfectly correct with “Beef labeling monitoring delegation Act”. For convenience and according to German bureaucratic standards, it is of course abbreviated to RkReÜAÜG.

    Some NASA acronyms are bad. But not this bad. It could only be surpassed by the PRobe Of Caelus (Uranus’ real name) Together with Orbiting SpaceCraft for Outer Planet Exploration
    Congressman: -“Sooo, you suggest we pay a billion to send PROCTOSCOPE to Uranus?”
    Astroengineer interrogated: -“Yes, and the probe will go all the way in.”
    Chairman: -“Order order! Bang bang.”

  • geoffc

    @ALex: You wrote: “There is no way around, people of Israel and Palestinian people have to live together, there is no another option.”

    You are aware there are 1.3 million Arab citizens in Israel? They are living together quite well. You are aware there are zero Jews in Gaza? They are NOT living together. You tell me where the issue is.

    Does anyone believe that if given more control, in Judea/Samaria, that Jews could safely live there?

    So what is your proposed solution? I like Caroline Glicks. Apply Israeli law to the entire Judea/Samaria. Let the Palestinians actually enjoy successful government and have a good life. That would allow them to live together peacefully, as Israel has demonstrated with 1.3 million citizens. As opposed to the other alternative, where 0 Jews (as demonstrated in Gaza) would be allowed to live safely with them.

    They have demonstrated an inability to self govern, which is their choice and fine, except for the part about trying to kill their neighbours.

  • Cotour

    To my earlier point about our Western political correctness and social justice:

    http://dailycaller.com/2017/07/12/former-gitmo-prisoner-applauds-khadr-payout-apology/

    The ridiculousness of what a lawyer today can confabulate in our now sick social justice / subjective Western courts and walk out the door with $10 plus million is……..ridiculous.

    In another time and place there is no need for Guantanimo, there is no $10 million, there is nothing except the dealing positively (From a Western interest point of view) with a verified and established enemy. There is no Gaza, there is no monetary settlement, there is no Black Lives Matter, there is no Comey / Hillary / Lynch nexus without true resolution.

    At some point sanity must reign and each, one by one these issues must be reconciled, if not we are truly doomed. We become like a chronically constipated animal, at some point it all must come out in order that it can live. Without this cleansing of our sick system we will not move with purpose and positively into the future, we will die an uncomfortable, excruciating and chaotic death.

    Strategy Over Morality must at some point prevail, first we eat, then civilization. Our Liberal / Leftist leadership has flipped this foundation of civilization around on itself. There can not be any morality (Justice, a rational subjective, self interest kind of morality) if you are willing to through some plainly perverted and against your own self interest political doctrine of social justice presented by the Left without there being true and final destruction of your own civilization.

    A Leftist can and will justify this thinking by saying that you must raze what exists before you can rebuild your civilization in a “proper” and “Better” model (From their perspective). Well they won’t say it out loud but its what they are doing. Their internal conversation justifies it, but to speak of it in the public square would be to inform the public of the imminent death of the culture and legal structure (Constitution) that they understand to be good and just.

  • Cotour

    Another point about Hamas and Gaza, the Zman intimated that ” the people choose” and the people deserve what they vote for.

    While a true enough statement is there true and real choice and Democracy in Gaza knowing the powers that exist there and the religion that dominates the minds of the people and the powers?

    Is there voting or is there “voting” in Gaza ? Might voting improperly in Gaza be equal to a death sentence? If so there is no Democracy in Gaza there is a political / religious position in Gaza. This situation has become a faux democracy and an international political tool for the Left.

  • Cotour: It is quite possible that the voting in Gaza was rigged, and Hamas won illegally. However, that election was carefully monitored by the UN and I think was probably administered fairly. Thus, I think the people of Gaza legitimately made this choice. Whether they have had a subsequent chance to choose differently is another issue. Hamas has clearly imposed its will by force once it gained power.

  • Alex

    @geoffc:

    You said: “You are aware there are 1.3 million Arab citizens in Israel?”

    Are these Arabs people citizens of Israel? I am not sure.

    You said: “You are aware there are zero Jews in Gaza? They are NOT living together. You tell me where the issue is.”

    That there are zero Jews in Gaza is self-explaining. I assume, a proposal to invite Jews to live there would be not very successful. However, living together of both Semitic groups (Jews and Arabs) could also be realized by allowing Palestinians to return to their original land in todays’ Israel, which they owned once and make them to a full-fledged citizen of Israel.

  • wayne

    geoffc-
    Nail, on the head!

    Cotour–
    by and large, it was actual “voting.” But I was not following it very closely, and would defer to anyone else on specifics. (Wasn’t Jimmy Carter, the notorious anti Semite, on some sort of monitoring-the-election Committee at the time?)

    This does serve to illustrate completely, the problem with ‘popular rule’ and ‘direct-democracy.’ Hold one “election,” and they vote themselves into tyranny. (51% of the people can enslave everyone else.)
    Perfect example of “factionalism,” as well.

    (tangentially– we need to repeal our 17th Amendment. Ever wonder, to whom your Senator is actually responsible? Spoiler alert– it’s none of us.)

    LocalFluff–
    -Come to the Midwest United States, and we’ll teach you how to speak authentic American English!
    (and, we have huge numbers of your x-countrymen in Michigan/Wisconsin/Minnesota.)

    Learn the Michigan Accent: Things
    https://youtu.be/Nn9yJPrPqmk
    (1:44)

  • wayne

    Alex–
    The ‘land’ argument just doesn’t hold up. Don’t dig yourself deeper into a hole.

    Isn’t this ‘like the Year 5,776 in the jewish calendar? (excuse my ignorance)

  • Cotour

    Gaza is the interface where Western Democracy and legal legitimacy by the Western standards clashes with eastern / Islamic doctrine.

    Only fools in the West believe that their moral / legal standards will prevail in Gaza. There is only one way that this is resolved to where there is some degree of peace found in Gaza. And that way (by Western standards because that is who ultimately militarily controls Gaza through overwhelming counter force ) is never going to happen.

    Perhaps someday during some horrific offence committed against Israel the world will look away for a moment and some semblance of order will be visited upon Gaza?

    There are fundamental rules of power regarding situations like this. The West and its tendency to become more and more Liberal in its thinking to the point of farce violates them all in the name of “compassion” and “social justice”. The lefts “compassion” ultimately translates into the suicide of the West. And I am not at all arguing against compassion but real consequences must be visited upon those who will not compromise whether it be based in politics or religion.

    The first step? Stop funding anyone who turns aid into weapons or monitarily rewards suicide bombing.

    What is missing? Real long term policy and leadership to back it up. Maybe that Trump guy will be able to do something of consequence? Nah, this is an eternal struggle that ends only in one way.

  • Mitch S.

    Worth remembering that the Gazans didn’t vote Hamas in because of Hamas’ stand against Israel.
    As with so many political events, it was domestic issues that ruled.
    The Fatah regime that ruled Gaza at the time was (is) corrupt. They siphoned off millions in aid money to build themselves luxury villas and buy Mercedes while the average Gazans lived in poverty. Hamas was seen as hardliners but they provided food and schools. So gazans picked the group they hoped would rmain attentive to their needs.
    Of course hamas turned out to be more interested in attacking and provoking Israel while keeping the Gazans as useful victims.
    But the Gazans have no opportunity to vote Hamas out…

    ” the right of any indigenous ethnicity, race, culture and people to exist as such and keep their homeland also in future”
    look at population figures for Palestine and reports by visitors in the 19th century.
    There was always a significant Jewish population. And there weren’t as many Arabs.
    frankly the area was mostly wasteland.
    When the Zionists started coming around the turn of the century, buying land and creating farms and other development, it attracted Arabs to the area who came for the job opportunities.
    The Arab world has never accepted the existence of a Jewish controlled entity in the “ummah” and use the Palestinians as a tool to weaken and dislodge the Jews.

    But the leftist world likes to hold onto their fantasies even when it leads to bizarre situations such as gay-rights activists attacking a country where gay rights are protected in favor of nations where gays are persecuted.

    As far as what we see in the mainstream news outlets this reporters observations are well worth reading:

    http://honestreporting.com/exclusive-how-reporting-from-israel-changed-my-worldview-forever/

  • pzatchok

    The Palestinians have been invited back into Israel.
    But they refuse unless all the land is given back to them.

    The Palestinians have been ‘given’ Gaza. They live there and pretty much owned it anyways by squatters rights.
    But they refuse to take official possession and or to improve or build on it. Out of pride they say that if they accept Gaza it would be in exchange for Israel and they will never admit they lost that land in a war.

    If they had spent the last 60 years investing in the land they occupied they would be living as well as if not better than the Israeli’s. And peace would fill the land.
    But no they instead pine for the days their great grandparents lived in Israel teach their children Jews are nothing more than an invasive animal that needs to be exterminated. thus condemning their own children to continuing the wars they have lost but refuse to give up.

    All their Arab and Muslim “friends” do is give them little bits of cash and any weapons they want. Enough cash to hope and starve with, and enough weapons to keep killing Jews with.
    The Un has never helped them because you can’t keep giving a man a fish and hoping he becomes a fisherman. He just becomes a beggar teaching his children to become better beggars for fish.

    The Palestinians are exactly the way the Palestinians want to be now.

  • Alex wrote: “Are these Arabs people citizens of Israel? I am not sure.”

    No, Alex, you are willfully ignorant. Every Arab who has ever lived in Israel proper has always had the option of being a citizen of that country, since its founding in 1948. Almost all accept that option, and thus they have all the rights of any citizen, can vote, and have served as full members of Israel’s legislative body, the Knesset.

    The only ones practicing bigotry and apartheid are the Palestinians, who want their land but want it with no Jews. And many of them, including all their leaders, want to kill those Jews if they refuse to leave.

  • LocalFluff

    wayne,
    Michigan is too southern for Swedish potato farmers and bear hunters.
    Minnesota was my mother’s grandfather’s (you don’t even have a single word for that do you, primitives?) new homeland. According to letters he sent. He sent a clock too. Who would do such a thing? A brilliant guy on an adventure. And he returns a shelf clock. The greatest disappointment in my family’s history was when they opened that post package. A shelf clock. Relatives had hopes that he had gotten rich or something in the new world. Digging up gold nuggets. And the only thing he tells us is the time of day. We kind of could’ve figured that out without his help, thank you very much. No wonder he wanted to get rid of us.

    I love watching women work, especially when under supervision, or how would they else know how to do anything. (Covering their heads in the hot Sun down there in Minnesota).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_emigration_to_the_United_States#/media/File:Sugar.plantation.png

    And on topic Gaza won’t get good again until islam has been abolished. The only thing I could argue against abolishing islam is that it would be good for the arabs. Because after all that the arabs have done I don’t think they deserve anything good anymore. But trying to be Christian I could tolerate also their benefit from abolishing islam. If they only abolish islam.

  • Cotour

    ” However, that election was carefully monitored by the UN and I think was probably administered fairly. ”

    The voting may well have been legitimate, the issue is what goes on in the places of worship and the kitchens and meeting halls and dark back rooms before the people get to the voting box.

  • Alex

    @wayne:

    Yes, I am digging, but for truth and justness.

  • Edward

    Alex wrote: “However, living together of both Semitic groups (Jews and Arabs) could also be realized by allowing Palestinians to return to their original land in todays’ Israel, which they owned once and make them to a full-fledged citizen of Israel.

    That sounds like a nice idea, when said quickly, but these people — or rather their parents — chose to abandon this land long ago. Those who chose to remain are the ones who are citizens.

    Wouldn’t taking that land from the rightful owners and giving it to the offspring of those who left create an even greater problem than was created by the choices that are at the root of Alex’s complaint?

  • Edward

    Alex wrote: “However, living together of both Semitic groups (Jews and Arabs) could also be realized by allowing Palestinians to return to their original land in todays’ Israel, which they owned once and make them to a full-fledged citizen of Israel.”

    In fact, this “solution” could be abused by anyone to the detriment of everyone. If we were to return original land to the descendants of original owners, then it would be just as justifiable for me to insist a return of property to me that my great ancestors left in other countries when they chose to come to the United States. Don’t get me wrong, I would love to have free land and buildings, but why should it go to me instead of to my siblings or cousins?

    I could insist that my family’s farm be returned, especially since it now has forty additional houses on it, which I could rent out for quite a profit. After all, why should I suffer just because my grandmother chose to sell my family’s legacy? Or I could insist that the home that I grew up in be returned to me, forcing the current family that lives there out on the street.

    Who has the right to the land? There are really only two people who have a unique claim:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xv7pu_YZCrg

  • Cotour

    Edward, what you describe is “social justice”, the suicide pact that the Left wants us all to sign on to.

    No one is recognizing the fact of conquest. Social justice is the political counter argument (and it is only an argument) in order to gain a hold on the political conversation in order to justify destroying our American model and installing a “One World / Global” type structure. Plain and simple.

    These arguments depend on tapping into the basic sense of fairness and justice in the mind of the public. It is however like I pointed out an emotional suicide pact if taken to its ultimate conclusion.

    This is the Lefts foundation argument, they call it justice. You know, from the oppression of the white man.

    The American Indians fought bravely but were overwhelmed, conquered and driven from their land by their conquerors. African slaves were acquired through conquest and the people who conquered them (their fellow Africans) sold them off to the highest bidder, they did not invent the practice, it has been the result of conquest for as long as humans have drawn breath. Who is the first formerly structured government that did away with the practice as a part of its foundation? America.

    When the modern argument for the abolishing of conquest is fully embraced and the U.N. is in charge then that is the moment of utopia. It will last for only moments, and then chaos will ensue. Why? Because “utopia” is against the laws of nature.

    (Today conquest (power) comes in different forms that are based for the most part in economics and less in actual bloodletting and the physical acquiring of territory, but it is conquest just the same.)

  • Alex

    @Edward:

    Most recently I viewed some youtube videos, as following ones, in which is said many (even majority?) of Jews, which live now in Israel, or even world-wide are descendants from so-called Khazars (turk people in Central Asia with Jewish belief) and not from antique Middle-east region as assumed by most.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrwIdi6DYY0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ciK3u4CgW8

    Do you have any idea on this? I never heard before from it, but it seems that many talk about it and consider it as reality.

  • Alex: I don’t have time to watch the second video, but there is nothing in the first to imply that any significant number of Jews anywhere in the world come from the Khazars. The history described here covers a period long after the Roman destruction of Israel and the scattering of Jews throughout the Roman and what was to become the Christian world. I am sure that some Jews trace their roots back to the Khazars, but only because they wandered into this region, as they did everywhere, a people without a home. Regardless, the Jews are Semites, like the Arabs, from the Middle East with roots centered around Jerusalem. That is recognized history.

    You however seem to extrapolate conclusions that aren’t justified. “Many” do not talk about the Khazars as the descendants of “many (even majority) of Jews, or “consider it a reality.” In fact, when the history described in the first video was taking place the majority of Jews lived in various places in Eastern Europe, far away.

  • Alex

    @ Mr. Zimmerman:

    I selected for first discussion more neutral and not very provocative videos, just to make your audience familiar with the fact, which seems not widely known, that there were a Jewish imperium over 1000 years ago in central Asia and all what follows. Your readers may search for themselves for more “aggressive” videos by using “The Ashkenazi and Khazarian Jews”.

  • Edward

    Alex wrote: “Do you have any idea on this?

    No. I never heard of it before, either.

    It does not matter where the people who live in a location came from in order to determine property rights. Before I moved into my current house, I lived in a different house, but this does not change my right to live in my current house.

    It does not matter when judging his rights whether someone’s ancestors belonged to an imperium, owned slaves, or otherwise conformed to the values of their day rather than to today’s values. To judge people by the actions of their ancestors with respect to the values of today is to fail to judge by the content of their character as opposed to the color or their skin, their religion, their political party affiliation, or other useless criteria.

    Cotour wrote: “Edward, what you describe is ‘social justice’, the suicide pact that the Left wants us all to sign on to.

    Social (in)justice is the punishment of one person due to some vague relationship to another person (skin color, wealth, nationality, sex, employment status, religion, etc.) who is now seen as having once harmed a third person. If it punished the actual culprit, it would be basic justice. Instead, an innocent is punished in order for those who judge to feel good about being judgmental.

    The relationship need not be direct or even exist at the same time. For example, I am punished for my skin color for sins committed not by me or my ancestors but committed by people of my same skin color who lived in the US before my ancestors arrived. I have absolutely no relationship to those people, yet I — not they — am punished, solely because I can be and they no longer can. American Apartheid — er — Affirmative Action is an institutional discrimination created specifically to punish me, and others like me, for the actions of completely unrelated slave owners in the American South from a couple of centuries ago.

    It is little known that there were free blacks in the South who owned their own slaves. This demonstrates just how ingrained slavery was in that region at that time; it only looks race-based. It was not until the majority-white North began to despise slavery that the worldwide anti-slavery movement began. If it had not been for them, slavery may still be accepted worldwide, but just look how badly their descendants are treated, in the US.

    Some thanks, the 18th century Northerners got, for saving millions of people. If they had known that their descendants would be so poorly treated due to the liberation of the slaves, would they have been as eager for their liberation?
    http://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/more-news-from-racist-evergreen-state-college/

  • Cotour

    I tell people that “political correctness” and “social justice” are what will destroy us all. Most scratch their heads and do not understand, most think that Obama, Hillary, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Perez, Ellison, Wasserman, Black Lives Matter, Treyvon Martin, Micheal Brown (both proven thugs and bad actors) and the like are just Democrats who oppose Republicans.

    They have no idea, because they only see what they are shown by the media that they watch and for the most part they are immersed in the complexities of their own personal lives. And the media that they watch is what it is, an extension of a Leftist political war agenda (by evidence).

    The Left uses these well thought out strategies of political war to appeal to reasonable Americans compassion and emotion, but these strategies are plainly against our American interests with extreme prejudice. All in the name of “fairness” and “Justice” as defined by these operatives.

    We apparently are collectively responsible for the actions of people that lived a minimum of 6 plus generations ago. At some point the past, as ugly and violent and abusive as it might have been must be put in its place and the future be embraced. Without guilt or apology.

  • Cotour: You live in New York City, home to the most low-information voters anywhere. It does not surprise me you get this kind of ignorant response from people you meet. I did too when I lived in New York, or any Democratic Party dominated area. They are usually ignorant, or blindly partisan, often filled with irrational hatred for anything Republican, or conservative.

    Note however that the majority of the nation voted against the Democratic Party, outside these regional enclaves of blindly Democratic voters. (See this map.)

    I also expect the red areas to continue to grow in coming elections.

  • Cotour

    Oh, I agree with you.

    What we seem to be witnessing is the large “Politically correct” and “Social justice” population centers becoming overwhelmed with the largess of the Liberal state mentality $$$. The plan has been simple, give the mass of the population more and more in the way of creating cultural dependency (social welfare programs) until the people who pay for everything can take it no more. Then decline happens I.E. Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis (the murder capital of America) etc. The only thing that saves New York City for the moment is the massive wealth that is generated within its boarders.

    2.7 percent of the population pays 51.6 percent of the taxes in the country, think about that for a moment. The remaining 97.3 of the population pays the remaining 49.4 percent of all taxes. The government has too much access to the wealth of the people and what they do with all of that wealth is to fulfill their own personal empowerment and re-empowerment agendas. That is the vicious cycle.

    These agendas become a collective conspiracy, a conspiracy by the empowered political class who must figure a way to retain the power they have acquired against the citizens that generate the wealth of our country. It is a perverted and corrupt game for certain.

    But there are some positive indications underway IMO. Trump, who appears to be sincere in his America first position being elected being one of them and the fact that the Democrats have not been able to garner a win in the special elections that have taken place. I suspect that this trend will continue. Add to that the apparent more Conservative and American oriented trend in a certain segment of the younger population and there may be some more positive surprises in our future. I am guardedly optimistic.

    I personally do not believe that the Democrats will be able to gather themselves and their message to in any way appeal to these newer and younger voters. Why? Because it is plain that these empowered politicians are or have become un American in their actions.

  • wayne

    Mr. Z.,
    Great map.
    -I’m roughly between the two blue blobs on the W Michigan shoreline. Anecdotally, both of those blue areas in my State (middle & shoreline) resemble metro-Detroit, in multiple ways. A perverse confluence of long term democrat rule, industry dominated by unions & historically tied to the fortunes of Detroit, concentrated poverty areas historically kept afloat by income-transfer’s and a high percentage of migrant labor.

    Cotour–
    Quick graphic from Heritage, on who-pays-what, current to 2013. Just to reinforce your point.
    http://federalbudgetinpictures.com/do-the-rich-pay-their-fair-share/

  • Cotour

    Keeping in mind that the cities that I listed, Detroit, Chicago and St. Louis were all commercial power houses, now all in decline to varying degrees and are all dangerous places. And we all know who has ran them for the past 60 years.

    Thats the power acquisition and retention model, politicos feed the populous with other people’s confiscated money in the name of Compassion and “improving” their lives by creating these entitlements / perceived rights I.E. healthcare and over time destruction must ensue. These are open ended models that have no restraint built into them because they are perversions.

    Its simple and politically effective, and once you are participating in it it becomes extremely hard to see.

  • Alex

    @Cotour:

    I am with you. I appreciate your growing insights regarding “political correctness”, “social justice” and all the other stuff.
    Next step should be to look for the sources, or what cause these phenomena, which could summarized unter term “Neomarxism” or better cultural Marxism, in order to fight it and understand the processes. I found following videos insightful.

    Why Cultural Marxism Is Destroying America

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpzfdC8HGP4

    The Architects of Western Decline: A Study on the Frankfurt School and Cultural Marxism

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTmNWY0ZPfM

    Cultural Marxism The Ideological Disease Destroying America & Western Civilization

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6kmnRZm7j8

  • Cotour

    I suppose its how your brain is wired from birth or your conditioning as a youth? But we all know instances where a person thinks one way, they realize that the model that they ascribe to is faulty, and they are able to reformulate it. I will site Ronald Reagan and Thomas Sowel, or even a raging drug addict who is able to get themselves under control as excellent examples of the power of the human mind to figure things out and take action to save themselves. Reagan, a full blown Democrat and Sowel, a full blown self admitted Marxist. I know several former drug addicts who have turned that switch, and whether politician or drug addict or an everyday citizen / voter, it can and must be done.

    My goal is to understand and boil down the goings on in the political world in order to find an acceptable concise way to communicate what is to me “faulty” or confused / automatic / immersed in the forest type thinking. This situation, with specifically the leadership of the Democrat party where the everyday Democrats have become unable to see that their leadership has in fact gone way off the rails and are now committed to Marxist philosophy, although they define it as being “compassion” / “social justice” / “politically correct” etc. etc.
    (And the Republican party leadership is also perverted in its own way, both are the eternal enemy of the people freedoms)

    This bait and switch type politics will in time grind the United States down right in front of everyone’s eyes, and like watching a man that is too far away from shore to administer help, drowns and dies for all to see. Sad.

    These subjects and conversations participated in right here and on many other sites by many people around the world are an exercise (for me anyway) in understanding and attempting to develop effective ways in understanding and discussing what must be understood and discussed.

    Hopefully enough people are able to “see” in order to prevent what appears to be part of an inevitable cycle of destruction. The only unknown variable that can disturb the historical inevitable?…………………………………….. The Constitution. It is truly the only, by design, hope.

  • Edward

    Cotour wrote: “2.7 percent of the population pays 51.6 percent of the taxes in the country, think about that for a moment. The remaining 97.3 of the population pays the remaining 49.4 percent of all taxes. … the power acquisition and retention model, politicos feed the populous with other people’s confiscated money in the name of Compassion and “improving” their lives by creating these entitlements / perceived rights I.E. healthcare and over time destruction must ensue. These are open ended models that have no restraint built into them because they are perversions.”

    wayne wrote: “A perverse confluence of long term democrat rule, industry dominated by unions & historically tied to the fortunes of Detroit, concentrated poverty areas historically kept afloat by income-transfer’s and a high percentage of migrant labor.”

    Coincidentally, I recently re-watched the three “Atlas Shrugged” movies (it is somewhat faster that reading the novel) and also my father, yesterday, started an email discussion on the Monty Hall Problem. I think that they both feed into this topic.

    In the “Atlas Shrugged” story, government gains more and more control over the production of goods and services in order to direct a recovery from a recession. Laws and regulations are created that make it more and more difficult for the competent people to do their jobs but give control to those who have no idea how to accomplish anything. Unfortunately, this control is at the expense of those few who actually know how to produce and distribute the goods and services; control goes from the competent to the incompetent.

    The competent group is seen as greedy, but the incompetent group actually is greedy, just greedy for power rather than money. For those who are “greedy” for money to gain that money, they must successfully produce and distribute their goods and services to those who are willing to pay for them; they must earn their wealth. For those who are greedy for power to gain that power, they must successfully distribute the first groups goods and services to a third group: those who are greedy for free, unearned stuff. Those greedy for power do nothing to earn that power, they just fool people into letting them have that power.

    In “Atlas Shrugged,” there is a strike by those with the knowledge to produce and solve the problems of production and distribution. Without solutions to the problems that arise, production declines and distribution is lost, creating problems that are similar to Detroit, Chicago and St. Louis (among others).

    As with modern Detroit, Chicago and St. Louis, the power greedy and the free-stuff greedy have driven out the wealth builders — the competent — leaving behind a dearth of goods and services. Why the scarcity? Because those seen as greedy for money were willing to earn that money by being productive; those greedy for power or for free stuff are not willing to earn either. Thus those perceived as money greedy are not as greedy as they are made to seem, but they are smart enough to get away from the greedy ones and go where they are more appreciated for their contributions.

    Detroit, Chicago and St. Louis of half a century ago were productive cities. They retained those who were productive, and most people were productive. Most had not succumbed to the greedy thoughts of getting free stuff for no work. When you decide that it is OK to steal from the rich in order to give to the poor, then the rich decide that it is no longer worth doing the work that it takes to get rich. They leave or go on strike.

    In the Monty Hall problem, the answer seems obvious, but turns out to be counterintuitive. After a door has been chosen, Monty Hall shows the goat that is behind another door, and this added information gives the contestant twice the chance of winning the grand prize if he changes his choice. Apparently, pigeons repeatedly exposed to the problem show that they rapidly learn always to switch.

    It may seem obvious that stealing from the rich and giving to the poor is only fair. After all, how are the poor to live without the rich providing for them, but the correct answer is for the poor to have the incentive to be productive and earn for themselves. When the poor become productive, they can support themselves, there are more goods and services to go around, and there is less need to steal from the rich, making productivity even more profitable. Everyone wins, and no one has to be greedy. This added productivity makes everyone more prosperous.

    In a similar way, in Gaza, there are people greedy for power over Israel, and they are willing to sacrifice the Gaza population in their attempt to gain that power.

    And the people of Gaza let those power-greedy people do that to them.

  • Edward

    Cotour wrote: “My goal is to understand and boil down the goings on in the political world in order to find an acceptable concise way to communicate what is to me “faulty” or confused / automatic / immersed in the forest type thinking.

    It is like the story of the little red hen:
    http://www.enchantedlearning.com/stories/fairytale/littleredhen/story/

    Some people do the work, and others expect a free share of the product.

    Rather than a loaf of bread, think of the world’s economy as a pie. Many people make that comparison. There is only one pie to go around, but the people who baked it are required by government give up some of it to those who did not. There are farmers who grew the ingredients, a miller who made the flour, and a baker who put it all together. The several people who provided no help in producing the pie (produced nothing for the economy) are still fed. Since there is only one pie to go around, many people misinterpret the situation as the haves (those who make the pie) and the have nots (those who did nothing) living in a static situation in which only one pie is made to feed everyone.

    However, if those who did not contribute to making the pie were to provide some of the labor, there could be a second pie. More wheat and filling grown, more flour made, and a helper to assist in making the second pie. This allows for more to go around and for an increase in the population.

    Funny how the world’s population grew and grew when we operated like this in the olden days, and how the populations of the socialist countries — where they distribute the one pie that they have — have ceased to grow so much, sometimes even depending on immigration in order to keep up the labor force.

  • Alex

    @Edward:

    You missed to recognize the importance if today’s Jews (and their identity) can be traced back to people in the acient Holy land or not, in respect to their claims of ownership to the land, which is now called Israel. That’s why the Khasar topic has also large significance.

    There is a professor from Israel, Shlomo Sand (historian at Tel Aviv University), who says that Jews have no historic connection to the Holy Land. He says it’s a myth. The man is death threaten. I would like not to judge about it, but just present it here for evaluation and critics.

    “Shlomo Sand was born in Linz, Austria, to Polish Jewish survivors of the Holocaust. His cultural background was grounded in Yiddish culture. …”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5s_trEBcbU

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tymFBCR_q6k

  • Alex: Then, according to your logic, as a Jew I have claim to Russia. Get out now! I want my homeland back!

    Bah. This is junk. The important thing is to allow people today to live where they want, in peace, regardless of the past.If they came legally (and note that the Jews immigrated to Israel legally, first under Ottoman Empire rule, then under British rule, then under Israeli rule), and are willing to live in peace with their neighbors, then their right to exist is sacrosanct.

  • Cotour

    As I read your pie analogy I immediately began to think: “Oh, where is he going with this one pie analogy? He can not believe this, this is going to set off a major head butting.”

    But I kept reading.

    The Left continues to strategically think / promote in these “one pie” terms in order to reach deep into the paranoia and natural jealousy of the public’s heart in order to acquire or retain what ever power they might have any one moment in time. “The rich!” ……….”The one percent!”………..”My taxes are too high and they pay nothing!”…..etc, etc.

  • Alex

    @ Mr: Zimmerman:

    At first, it is not my logic. I presented just Prof. Sand analysis.

    However, if I take your comment seriously: No, you cannot claim land in Russia, but your people cannot also claim land in Palestine.

    You said above: “The important thing is to allow people today to live where they want, in peace, regardless of the past.”

    Are you aware that you share this “open border” view with extreme leftists and communists? This view is not a position of a real conservative! This fake “neocon” conservatism. There is no such right for everyone/people to allow where to he or they want. Such a “right” attacks given citizens rights, property and heritage. You deny the right of any country/state to control its borders and protect and sustain its people! ANTIFA welcome you with this view. Congratulation!

  • Alex: You do not read what others write very closely. I carefully noted the legal aspects of the Jewish immigration to Israel. Hardly an open borders position.

  • LocalFluff

    Alex
    “but your people cannot also claim land in Palestine.”

    The Caliphate proclaimed jihad against Britain and France and Russia and Italy in 1914. And it lost that war. Thus it was occupied. Thus it is up to the Victor to claim their superiority of the defeated province of Palestine. They could’ve turned it into a zoo for giraffes if they wanted. It’s up to the Victor alone. The defeated islamists have no say about it. If they wanted it any other way, they shouldn’t have declared a jihad against their superiors to begin with. Now they have to learn the lesson of consequences coming from action! That lesson doesn’t seem to have been whipped hard enough into them yet.

  • Cotour

    Local, you support my “Conquest” point.

    Conquest has consequences, no apology, no excuses, no do overs, this is an Alpha condition.

    Political Correctness and Social Justice attempt to rewrite this natural condition, of aggression, true, and of success and also of failure. Do you know who try’s to reverse this natural state? Those who lose and who believe that they have found a Beta way of prevailing.

  • Edward

    Alex,
    You wrote: “You missed to recognize the importance if today’s Jews (and their identity) can be traced back …

    Remember the video that I linked earlier?
    http://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/hamas-has-made-gaza-unliveable-according-to-the-un/#comment-1000286
    The only people who have a claim are the first ones there and the current ones there. Thus the videos that you linked have no bearing on this discussion, and I did not waste my time watching either of them. You are trying to distract the discussion to something irrelevant. As far as I can tell, Jews are both the first ones in Israel as well as among the current ones there.

    The people in Gaza have absolutely no claim at all on Israel. To suggest otherwise is just as silly as my earlier examples of me having claims on any of my family’s legacy properties, which were sold, and all rights to them were legally transferred to the new owners.

  • Edward

    Cotour,
    You wrote: “The Left continues to strategically think / promote in these ‘one pie’ terms

    Conservatives continue to understand that wealth and prosperity are created from the work that we do with our own minds and our own hands. Wealth and prosperity are not fixed amounts, a single pie, but increase through ideas (books, movies, iPhones, etc.) and work (new houses, roads, rockets, etc.). Ideas and work are the only source of wealth and prosperity, and taking from someone in order to give to someone else only stifles the increase of wealth as well as prosperity.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkXI-MNSb8Q (10 minutes; Bill Whittle, “Wealth Creation”)

    These are the concepts that you need to convey to your friends. J. K. Rowling was on British relief when she wrote her first Harry Potter book — value that was created in her head — and through the work of her publisher, a movie producer, and a toy licenser she was the root source for making money for a lot of people, keeping thousands of people off of welfare. Just with a story. A mere story, thought up out of thin air, brought prosperity to thousands of people. Good for Rowling.

    There is no limited pot of money.

    Just as the second pie was made out of thin air, the money earned from Harry Potter, his books, his movies, and his licensed toys were also made out of thin air. Someone had an idea for a story, other people turned it into a book, others turned it into a movie, and still others turned it into a whole bunch of toys — even Lego sets.

    Oh, I almost forgot: As a side effect, Hundreds of millions of people were entertained and happy to pay for that entertainment. Rowling didn’t have to steal money to get wealthy, and she didn’t get wealthy by being on British welfare (which steals money from the productive to give to those who are not productive). She got wealthy by becoming one of the productive people, by being creative and working to bring that creativity to a capitalist free market.

    Can someone in a socialist, communist, or Marxist country do that?

  • LocalFluff

    Alex
    Millions of Germans, many times more than the number of arabs from Palestine, fled from Western Poland at about the same time. They don’t spend generations in tent camps, feeding themselves off of foreign “aid”, pretending to be born “refugees”, shoot primitive rockets across the borders, try to mow down Polish children with their Volkswagen or stab them with knives at any opportunity, claiming back Silesia in the UN and threatening to exterminate the Polish nation. No, they accept that things went really very bad with politics (again, surprise surprise), understand that it was mutual, and go on with life with their neighbors as soon as their failed leaders have been hung or shot.

  • Alex

    @LocalFluff:

    As you know, I am very critical to Islamic expansion. I like often to read your comments, but this one above is stupid.
    I think it is ridiculous to compare situation in totally defeated, former world power Germany in 1945, which was able to sustain a worldwide war for a while, to the underdeveloped, tribal Palestine people, which were and are victims.

    You are also wrong in a certain point. 15 millions of Germans fled by force not from Western Poland in 1945, but from (former) Eastern Germany, which was by the way finally officially separated from Germany in 1990 by a treaty, which was not a real peace treaty as hopped by many.

    It was one of largest, enforced human displacement in history. Some millions loosed their lives during this event. There was an also a significant, residual Germany, which could support those fled. We may discuss about of German guilt, which by the way would not even support this kind of displacement and land occupation by Communists, commanded by Stalin, who shifted Poland westwards in order to gain more own territory, if WWII’s victors would had applied their proclaimed superior morality. BTW, a discussion at UN about these events could be of high value, but it is avoided by purpose. Palestine people are without any guilt, which could even remotely support occupation of their land.

  • LocalFluff

    Alex
    Among many issues, I’ll only bring up this one
    “Palestine people are without any guilt”
    Wrong! They declared jihad against the entente! And they lost. That aggression was why they lost their right to their land. Simple! It’s like that in all wars. I picked Germany 1945 because it was a historically similar case in the same decade.

    The disaster of the Middle East and of all arabs is that the Eastern European Victors left them unoccupied. Now that their appointed military dictators fall, there will be a new holocaust. We have to occupy the arabs, brutally, if the world is to enjoy peace again. Arabs left aloof is very very dangerous. They have to be chained and caged for their own and most of all for everyone else’s safety!

  • Alex

    @ LocalFluff:

    Thank you that remind us the Allied’s crimes against German people in WWII, which resulted from occupation and displacment.

    Beside the Arabic and Jewish question we discussed here, I would like bring to your attention that there are no real conservatives in USA, but only fake conservative, the so-called cuckservatives, Please study the following video and give me your statement. Thank you. Both, Greg Johnson and “Vox Day” are great thinker, conservatives and nationalists.

    Greg Johnson Interviews Vox Day on “Cuckservative”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjpuZaPt1eg

  • Edward

    Alex wrote: “I think it is ridiculous to compare situation in totally defeated, former world power Germany in 1945, which was able to sustain a worldwide war for a while, to the underdeveloped, tribal Palestine people, which were and are victims.

    Alex has part of a point. Instead, we should compare Gaza with Gaza. Those who left the Israeli nation, way back when, did so very willingly. It was their idea to leave, and it was their choice to leave. They were not given victim status until Hamas messed up Gaza. By the way, after an attack of aggression into Israel, Gaza (and Egypt) was totally defeated by the small power, Israel, which is how it became an Israeli possession.

    Alex wrote: “Palestine people are without any guilt, which could even remotely support occupation of their land.

    Except, of course, their land is not occupied. Indeed, the initialization of this whole discussion of Hamas having made Gaza unlivable was because Gaza is not occupied.

    As for guilt, well, at least now we know that Alex believes terror, missile attacks, and violence are guilt-free crimes, in this world. Or does he only think them acceptable when they are committed against his good friends, the Jews?

    Alex wrote: “that remind us the Allied’s crimes against German people in WWII, which resulted from occupation and displacment.

    Nice. When the Soviet Union commits crimes, Alex lumps them in with the Allies in order to distract attention away from the criminal nation. Then he conveniently avoids noting that the Soviets were guilty of the very charges that he levels against Israel.

    “Beside the Arabic and Jewish question we discussed here, I would like bring to your attention that there are no real conservatives in USA, but only fake conservative, the so-called cuckservatives,”

    Yet another distraction. A claim that there are no conservatives in America, coming from someone who has never been here to see, has no meaning. Especially when Alex’s definition of conservative is so completely different from America’s definition. It is hard to know what Alex means by his statement.

    Once again, Alex has shown that he does not pay attention to what people write, here at Behind The Black, because I have twice linked to a series of videos made by an American conservative describing what we American conservatives generally believe. Once again, Alex continues to use his own non-dictionary definition in order to make some form of point that none of the rest of us understand, due to his loose use of the English language.

    I really do not know why Alex would think any of us were interested in watching a political video by a video game designer, so I didn’t bother to click on the link, provided explicitly as a distraction from the Arabic and Jewish question that Alex is losing, here.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Johnson_(game_designer)

  • wodun

    Alex, there is plenty of sin to go around. The former Ottomans are not victims but the remnants of an oppressive Islamic Empire. Go read up on the various caliphates and how they moved populations around and used slavery. The people of Gaza are not “natives” like aborigines or Native Americans.

    Muslims aren’t victims either. They have controlled the Middle East for over a thousand years through conquest and slavery. Their societies are oppressive and victimize the minorities that live in them.

    When Israel declared independence, there were many Jews who were expelled by neighboring Muslim countries. Do they have a right of return to their former homes? And why would they want to return to live in societies that have been waging centuries long slow roll genocide against them?

    The land exchanges in question were small and Israel has less land now than they did originally. The displaced populations were relatively small and affected both sides.

    The situation is not a perfect one. We can’t change the past, only the future.

    Israel thinks Gaza has the right to exist, do Gazans think Israel has the right to exist?

  • Alex: I will not tolerate name-calling on this website, and the use of the term “cuckservative” is that, and that alone. It carries no real meaning but to associate conservatives with a four-letter word.

    Moreover, just because you don’t really understand modern American conservatism does not give you the right to call those whom you disagree with as “fake.”

    You are now so close to the line of being banned that you better not move very much.

  • Alex: I should add that your increasing advocacy of bigotry and race hatred is also wearing out my patience. The world is seeped in this hatred. It is one of the reasons why there is no peace in the Middle East and why Islam is so corrupt. I do not wish my website to become a haven for promoting such beliefs.

    As I say, you are close to being the second person I have ever banned. And if I do it it will be for the very same reasons.

  • LocalFluff

    Alex,
    “Thank you that remind us the Allied’s crimes against German people in WWII, which resulted from occupation and displacment.”

    They could’ve surrendered unconditionally any day. Crime must be fought with crime. I love the insight of US defense secretary Mad Dog:
    “The US can never make peace with any enemy. We can only convince them to make peace with us.”
    If the enemy requires their children to be burned to be convinced, then so be it and so it will be done.

  • Alex

    @Mr. Zimmerman:

    No need to take action. I am going to withdraw from this blog myself after this comment and say “Goodbye”. You may think about following as a gift: I my view is somebody racist, who does not allow (as you?) that a certain ethnic group sustain and control their own future existence and is somebody is not conservative, who does not care about his own people existence and his country’s borders. Supporting a capitalist economy is not sufficient to be conservative. Adieu! You may save your response to this. Thank you.

  • Mitch S.

    Of course this is Mr Zimmerman’s blog and he sets the rules.
    But I would like to remind us that we are engaged in a war – a war of ideas.
    Nobody is going to convince Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren to see things our way
    (BTW they and their cohorts are thinking quite clearly – their positions have gained them wealth and power)
    It’s the “regular people”, those whose careers are not attached to liberal politics, especially the youth that concern me.

    They will say things that irritate and annoy because that’s what schools and the media have been teaching them.
    We must be confident in our positions (but not close-minded), and be patiently wiling to hear and answer questions.
    PS Don’t expect to see immediate results from your dialogue – the people you are communicating with have been steeped in left-wing propaganda and start by setting examples and planting seeds that will hopefully sprout when they mature.

    But remember they do vote – turn your backs on them at our peril!

  • Cotour

    The Zman just wants to raise the quality of discourse on the site, and he reasonably asks that people not use disparaging or off color words in the discourse. Blogs can go down hill fast if someone does not set parameters.

    Alex has fundamental difficulty understanding some American / Western concepts of freedom and governance. If he wants to learn something while contributing then he will stay. He unfortunately is blocked from doing so apparently by his preconceived notions of what he believes America is all about.

    Alex was a bit of a challenge but he did contribute in his way, there will be a new Alex in the future. I wish him well.

  • Edward

    Alex wrote: “Supporting a capitalist economy is not sufficient to be conservative.

    Once again Alex demonstrated that he would rather be bigoted and ignorant about America’s conservatives rather than finding out what American conservatives believe. I gave him multiple opportunities to view a series of videos on the topic of what American conservatives believe, but he continues to believe that it is only free market capitalism. Instead it also includes such topics as: free markets, small government, liberty, creation of additional wealth (not just a fixed “pie” of wealth), natural rights (not bestowed by government), gun rights, legal immigration, American exceptionalism due to our freedom and liberty, and equality of opportunity (not of result).

    I will miss Alex’s foreign viewpoint, but he is free to choose what websites he spends his time on.

    (Huh. Free to choose. What a concept. Too bad Obamacare does not allow freedom of choice.)

    Mitch S.,
    You wrote: “start by setting examples and planting seeds that will hopefully sprout when they mature.

    It may help to ask questions that force those victims of propaganda to support their positions. When they are unable to do so, they may, sometimes, get the idea that they do not have enough information and become more willing to listen to another viewpoint.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMxTEZ7JizI (2 minutes, “Students Love Socialism… But Can’t Define What It Is”)

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