Public pressure is now being applied to gun manufacturers who are trying to wheezle out of the boycott against gun-banning states.
Pushback: Public pressure is now being applied to gun manufacturers who are trying to weasel out of the boycott against gun-banning states.
In other words, Armalite is trying to play both ends against the middle. They want to say they are on-board with the boycott (sort of) to placate gun owners, but they aren’t; they’re still going to continue selling to individual police officers… just not to the departments. Armalite will sell to every individual officer in the department that wants an AR-15, but they won’t sell to the department’s official purchasing agent. Wink-wink, nudge-nudge.
Owens suggests spending your money with other companies and I agree. We are reaching the moment where you are either for freedom or against it. And if you act against it you are not my friend and will get none of my support.
On Christmas Eve 1968 three Americans became the first humans to visit another world. What they did to celebrate was unexpected and profound, and will be remembered throughout all human history. Genesis: the Story of Apollo 8, Robert Zimmerman's classic history of humanity's first journey to another world, tells that story, and it is now available as both an ebook and an audiobook, both with a foreword by Valerie Anders and a new introduction by Robert Zimmerman.
The ebook is available everywhere for $5.99 (before discount) at amazon, or direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit. If you buy it from ebookit you don't support the big tech companies and the author gets a bigger cut much sooner.
The audiobook is also available at all these vendors, and is also free with a 30-day trial membership to Audible.
"Not simply about one mission, [Genesis] is also the history of America's quest for the moon... Zimmerman has done a masterful job of tying disparate events together into a solid account of one of America's greatest human triumphs."--San Antonio Express-News
Pushback: Public pressure is now being applied to gun manufacturers who are trying to weasel out of the boycott against gun-banning states.
In other words, Armalite is trying to play both ends against the middle. They want to say they are on-board with the boycott (sort of) to placate gun owners, but they aren’t; they’re still going to continue selling to individual police officers… just not to the departments. Armalite will sell to every individual officer in the department that wants an AR-15, but they won’t sell to the department’s official purchasing agent. Wink-wink, nudge-nudge.
Owens suggests spending your money with other companies and I agree. We are reaching the moment where you are either for freedom or against it. And if you act against it you are not my friend and will get none of my support.
On Christmas Eve 1968 three Americans became the first humans to visit another world. What they did to celebrate was unexpected and profound, and will be remembered throughout all human history. Genesis: the Story of Apollo 8, Robert Zimmerman's classic history of humanity's first journey to another world, tells that story, and it is now available as both an ebook and an audiobook, both with a foreword by Valerie Anders and a new introduction by Robert Zimmerman.
The ebook is available everywhere for $5.99 (before discount) at amazon, or direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit. If you buy it from ebookit you don't support the big tech companies and the author gets a bigger cut much sooner.
The audiobook is also available at all these vendors, and is also free with a 30-day trial membership to Audible.
"Not simply about one mission, [Genesis] is also the history of America's quest for the moon... Zimmerman has done a masterful job of tying disparate events together into a solid account of one of America's greatest human triumphs."--San Antonio Express-News
Q: At what point is it discriminatory for a private company to selectively sell a legal product to a
private citizen?
I think it is supportable for a private company to refuse to sell a legal product to a private citizen
and a municipality where the law has been changed to favor one over the other.
I think to pick and choose will bring problems.
Every company reserves the right to sell or not to sell to anyone for any reason.
If the federal government wants to federalize a company then they will just have to do it and pay the price.
Personally Armalite is now off my list.
How might a company determine who to sell to and who not to sell to?
I am 100% behind the firearms company’s who will choose not to sell their products within a
geographic area or municipality that has limited the public access to a product and allows it to
be purchased by their police department.
I feel however that there is a law suite and judgment brewing in such circumstances, this IMO
is not something that can be just executed without forethought and strategy.
A liquor store can not just determine who they would or would not like to sell their leagal
products to, there must be a basis of refusal of sale, like the customer was visibly
intoxicated or the customer did not provide to my satisfaction sufficient proof of age.
The reason can not be because I don’t like dreadlocks or she had dirty hair.
Firearms are a Constitutionally guaranteed product and if they are to be limited there had
better be a damn good and balanced reason for the gate keeper to selectively limit them.
This works both ways.
Guys: I have worked in a gun store for 20 years. Dealers may refuse to sell to anyone for any reason. 1986 Gun Owner Protection Act, gave this option to the licensed dealers. Of course, most of the refusals are never challenged…..I can just see some prohibited person going to the US Attorney in Birmingham complaining that the dealer would not sell him a weapon because he had no valid ID or refused to fill out the 4473 form!!!
Dale
What’s the big deal….just let these gun manufacturers go offshore, maybe to China, just like the rest of our manufacturing base. What could happen?
They can not just go off shore.
There are far more import restrictions on guns than on drugs. Ammo has fewer restrictions but there is talk of even shutting that down.
A lot of firearm assembly has already been moved over to the US just to get a round a few of those restrictions.
Keep in mind that PATZCHOK was talking about selectively restricting sales to individual police
officers that worked within an area that has passed laws against private ownership of firearms.
That would be like someone who came into your shop, filled out all of the required forms and
provided I.D. and you turn around and tell them, I don’t think I want to sell to you.
That, you can not do, your ability to restrict a sale is strong, but it is narrow.
And your point is well taken that a person who is not law abiding never comes into a gun shop
to purchase their “firearm needs”, only law abiding people do.
And that is why all of this talk of more gun restrictions is a red herring, if they were to be
supported then Chicago and Washington D.C. would be the safest cities on the planet, and
quite to the contrary, they are among the most dangerous.
By the same law that lets a fire arms dealer turn down a sale for ANY reason, they do NOT have to say why they turned down the sale.
I would LOVE to see the police take this one to court. Go ahead force people to do your bidding. Use the force of the legal system to get your way around the law.
The police will just have to get one of their own to go out and apply for and receive an FFL.
The problem with that is the laws that have been set in place by many anti gunners already.
One is that each FFL holder MUST have a store front different than their home. They passed this in order to stop ‘table top’ dealers as they were called.
Just selling to the cops will never keep someone in business.
You can not willy nilly refuse to sell a legal product, especially a firearm if the individual supply’s
all of the proper paper work and I.D.
There are plenty of lawyers that will ruin your day if you were to do so, and they would be right.
Like I said, your power as a dealer to restrict is strong, but it is narrow and it is not a function of
your exercising a bias to suit your agenda.
I would look that up if i were you.
We are NOT talking about selling bubblegum. The laws are different.
We are NOT talking about racism which in some cases might be provable.
But unless the dealer states a reason there is no evidence of why the person was turned down. Something about self incrimination.
I would love to see the cops take a dealer to court over this. I would love to see them force a private citizen to do something they do not want to do. Especially when there are other dealers out there who might sell to them. It just makes good press.
In fact in many many cases people have been turned down because they “acted fishy” according to the dealer.
Several times during the gun sales of the weapons in the ‘Fast And Furious’ action the dealers didn’t want to sell to the suspicious people and the ATF told them to go ahead and make the deal. Some dealers were only suspicious because the person was buying more then 4 guns at once or just looked like a gang banger.
PZATCHOK, what are you not understanding here?
All of the instances you give are true enough, suspected gang bangers, “suspicios” customers,
Fast and Furious participants etc. etc., they however have nothing to do with this alternate and
lawful situation.
If a private citizen / police officer comes into a dealer and presents all of the proper, required
documentation and the required I.D. you can not refuse to sell to that person.
Like I have stated, a dealer has a strong ability to use discretion and restrict a “suspicious”
person from a firearm purchase, but it is a narrow ability and in time a real justification would
have to be offered.
If I come into a store to make a purchase and you were to deny me for no other reason than
you just did not feel like it or some other non specific reason you would have a problem.
IMO, the gun manufacturers will be able to deny sales in districts or juristrictions where laws
prohibit certain firearms but a dealer within those districts will have to make sales to qualified
purchasers. Keep in mind that a manufacturer is not a dealer.
PS: Upon an initial refusal you may be able to retain a measure of space related to “self incrimination” but the next time I came into your store and you also refused to sell to me there would be a demand for you to justify your actions. (keep in mind my lawyer would be standing next to me)