The future roadmap of religious persecution in America

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The article describes the inevitable legal consequences of the Supreme Court’s decision on same-sex marriage. Some key quotes:

The first attacks will be on small churches that don’t have the wherewithal to mount a legal defense against the IRS and against civil lawsuits. They will be confronted with a loss of their tax exempt status and the personal bankruptcy of their corporate officers if they do not allow homosexual weddings. The effect this will have on small congregations will be profound. Some will become “house churches”, much like what you see in Communist China. Many, however, will fall in line. The larger Protestant denominations will toe the line. Some, like the Episcopalians, are only nominally Christian as is. The Lutherans (ELCA variety) have had actively homosexual clergy for some time as have the Methodists. The two big targets for the government will be the Southern Baptist Convention — which is a voluntary association of independent churches — and the Roman Catholic Church. The pressure will ratchet up on them until they are confronted with confiscation of property or “discovering” hidden meanings in Scripture that reveal homosexual marriage has always been allowed.

Churches won’t disappear but the churches that you will see on Main Street will be peddling a warmed over and watered down version of Christianity that is a combination soup kitchen and twelve step program sans belief in a higher power. Real Christian churches will go underground but it will be a rearguard action. Christianity that chooses to ignore the very Word of God is not a religion, it is a cultural artifact.

The real price will be paid by those of us who are not actually employed by our churches. Organizing to resist homosexual marriage will bring down the FBI upon you as surely as if you were organizing a KKK chapter and with more alacrity than if you were an al Qaeda cell or blocking a polling station in Philadelphia. If you work for a large corporation or are in the military you can look forward to having your affirmatively support of homosexual marriage becoming an item on your performance appraisal. [emphasis mine]

And then there’s this:

Rather consistently local judges and others have said that religious liberty does not prevail for individuals who own businesses or engage in commerce. In effect, you can have religious liberty, so long as you don’t own a business. Here too there are legal nuances, but the fundamental trajectory is clear: Anyone who opposes the celebration of same-sex unions and lifestyle are going to be increasingly entangled in the courts and face more and more charges. [emphasis mine]

Read it all. If you don’t believe it will happen you are living in a fool’s paradise. Either Americans stand up now and defy the tyrannical strain that is beginning to dominate our society, or we will find all of our remaining but shrinking freedoms gone.


  • ted

    I want to see the response(both sides) when a mosque refuses to perform a same-sex wedding.

  • pzatchok

    I tend to think that before the Roman Catholic Church is successfully attacked the Eastern Orthodox Churches will be attacked and effected if not forced to change.

    I have a lot of orthodox friends and many orthodox churches in the area. They are already talking about possible coming problems.
    They have also followed all of our local Roman Catholic churches lead in no longer renting out their event halls to the public. Renting only to members.
    Local churches are no longer even election or poling places because of the government/public connections.

    I feel the Evangelical/Protestant church will have a harder time of it since they seem to be actively working to stop gay marriage.

    There are some catholic churches accepting open and active LBGT members but they are not members of their parent churches.

    The Jewish faith stands as much chance of attack. Their Orthodox do not accept homosexuality either.

    Islam is safe(out of fear) until attacks on the other succeed.

    A unified defense fund among the 3 religions would be a great thing. A unified defense is the strongest.

  • pzatchok

    Islam is safe.

    For the obvious reasons. They will be the last openly attacked.

  • Ralph


    How does marriage work in America? In Australia a marriage celebrant is required to preform a legal marriage. Most clergy are celebrants. So if they had too they can stop being legal celebrant but still preform a religious sacramental marriage. It just makes it more difficult for couples as they would need to marry in a registry office as well o make it legal.

  • Cotour

    At least if you understand the strategy of those who would force their will upon you in this changing “progressive” environment you have an opportunity to reconfigure and counter, blunt or eliminate that strategy. Where this whole thing will really goes down the drain is if the Supreme Court, who we can now reliably say have developed an activist agenda related to it, would rule that churches and religious organizations are mandated to comply with the now strengthened Obamacare. The court now has an investment in Obamacare.

    And how likely is that to happen? (Sarcasm alert for those sarcasm challenged nerds that may read this)

  • Cotour

    A perfect example of bureaucracy creep and how once the government establishes a power it can only get worse and worse, its just the nature of the beast. The politicians are pushing back but land management who they have empowered may have something else to say about it.

  • pzatchok

    In the US a marriage is not official and by the state legal, unless a state marriage license is filled out, signed and filed in a court.

    There is no need for a member of the clergy. Nor is there any type of ceremony, just file the paper work.

    They call it a marriage certificate in most states but in fact its just a legal civil union.

    If the powers to be had just officially changed the name of the paperwork to a civil union and required everyone to get it most of this gay marriage problem would not have happened. Most of the arguments centered around the religious word ‘marriage’.

    Neither the LBGT community nor some on the religious right wanted to make that change and thus make the state/religion separation.
    In fact there is some rumblings that the next step for the LGBT community is to force churches to officiate gay unions or lose tax exempt status.
    They have no need to do this because there are many religious institutions or churches that will officiate.

    The supreme Court discussion really just made gay marriage legal for insurance, retirement benefits, property ownership, inheritance and state to state acceptance of each state issued civil union/marriage certificates.
    Pretty much nothing legal to do with religion. Yet.

  • Edward

    Ralph asked, “How does marriage work in America?”

    We Americans are not yet sure.

    It used to be that someone could become ordained for the sole purpose of officiating over a wedding of one of our friends. It could even be done easily online. Now, however, it may be possible that becoming ordained strictly for the one occasion could soon make us subject to being required to marry any couple that requests it, even if we desire to not be associated with that couple’s wedding (a request that is a requirement is actually a demand, making our language even more Orwellian).

    The United States has already seen court rulings for wedding-related businesses, requiring them to make associations with those they do not wish to associate with. Forcing someone into an unwanted association is just as tyrannical as telling someone who he must or must not love, and makes him into a virtual slave.

    The Supreme Court was unclear on the actual consequences of fundamentally transforming a once well understood institution or how it believes that marriage should now work.

    As with most other government-initiated social engineering projects, this will likely take years, much legislation, and many, many court cases to work out a final unworkable solution that is bad for everyone.

    There is a poorly formed hypothesis that a law must be good if everyone involved dislikes it. By that poor reasoning, nuking New York would be considered good.

    No sarcasm intended.

  • D.K. Williams

    I ‘m afraid Bob is on target with this prediction. The Convention of States project is the best hope I see for the power of the Federal government to be reined in.

  • pzatchok

    A convention of states is NOT the right answer.

    First off those of the other side get their representation also.

    How are those we send to the convention chosen? By vote?
    I guess the rich will pay for the elections again. Or at least the advertising.

    At this convention exactly what do you hope to be accomplished? And please state it exactly, not some general “affirmation of the constitution”, or ‘we will repeal a few laws we do like.’
    A constitutional convention is to rewrite a whole new constitution and in so doing also getting everyone to agree on it.
    I think the first one took officially something like 10 years until it was signed and voted on. How will you run this nation without representatives and or a constitution for the next 5 years? We are not the almost totally agrarian and independent and somewhat isolated 13 colonies we used to be.

    All I can see with a constitutional convention would be growing anarchy and eventual totalitarianism in order to reign it in. The rich building private armies and city states rising up to bring about order and control.
    The military not getting paid on time and falling into total disorder. The US dollar not being trusted on the world stage drop to zero in value and the US being forced revert to barter and trade even on a global scale.
    The whole time we are worrying about outside nations and influences getting into the country and creating their own areas of law and influence.
    What if the Muslims of Detroit were threatened by a few idiots and called on a few Saudi prince to send help. And they ended up sending in fully trained and equipped troops to create a Sharia state.
    Or the drug cartels takeover Dallas and turn it into a little Mexico fully run by them?

    This might sound like fantasy but what parts would never happen and why?

  • Maurice

    One of the more enlightened writers of our era remarked that the greek state also puts out volumes of rules, regulations, laws, etc, and that the population typically ignores them unless enforced constantly at gunpoint. The greeks wisely grew cynical of their “leaders” after being disappointed time and again. The only difference with the US and greece is a common ethnicity and language, and greece’s descent took 93 years. It will not take that long for revulsion and disappointment to turn into cynicism

  • Edward

    pzatchok wrote: “A constitutional convention is to rewrite a whole new constitution”

    I believe that you have misunderstood the concept. It is not a constitutional convention but an alternate method of creating amendments. from Article V: “… or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, …”

    Although the danger is that “the other side” will get their way, they already get their way. No one in the federal government is on the side of We the People, and all have demonstrated that they are willing to turn the US into a tyranny. Our options are limited to the state governments calling an Article V Convention or We the People emulating an earlier defining document, The Declaration of Independence, in order to remain the world’s beacon of liberty — or to regain the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity.

    Or, we can just sit here and be content to live in a tyranny and forsake all hope of liberty anywhere in the world.

    pzatchok wrote: “At this convention exactly what do you hope to be accomplished? And please state it exactly”

    Mark Levin, who popularized this idea when he realized that Article V was about amending the Constitution rather than about rewriting it, wrote a book explaining his proposed amendments. Please consider reading it; it is likely at your local library.

    However, once such a Convention is convened, the states may propose what they wish. Hopefully, their proposals will include a new Bill of Rights for We the People and a renewal their power (per the now-ignored Tenth Amendment) and repeal the Seventeenth Amendment, which removed much of the states’ influence in the federal government.

    It is clear that several (mis)interpretations of the Constitution have led to a degradation of the Bill of Rights, and clarifications are necessary to ensure that the Supreme Court does not violate our liberty again. They have forgotten that they have a fiduciary responsibility to us to protect our liberty.

  • M

    Will “religious persecution” come to mean also “by”, and not simply “of”, given the Roman Catholic Pope’s recent encyclical, which, taken seriously regarding “Climate Change”, would have a very real chance to gravely harm the worlds poor by dashing badly needed energy production and very closely related economic growth on which those poor, most of all, so critically depend?

    Very curious to hear Bob’s take on this question.

  • pzatchok

    Thank you,

    I was wrong.

    But I still cannot see it ever happening.

    What about a block by the SC?
    All they have to do is reinterpret the meaning of a convention and then ignore anything coming out of one.
    Or they determine that anything coming out os a CC still needs the same ratifications that anything coming out of the senate or congress needs. I,E, everyone gets to vote on it and the president still must sign it.

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