Vote on Republican Obamacare bill canceled


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The Republican leadership has canceled today’s planned vote on their Obamacare replacement bill, having failed to get the support of that bill from conservatives.

The link is to mainstream news outlet ABC, which typically reports this bill as an effort “to repeal and replace ‘Obamacare.'” This is not a repeal bill. To call it that is to lie about what it is. All it does is tinker a bit with Obamacare, at its outer edges, while cementing the law in place by making the Republican Party now partly responsible for it.

Kudos to the House Freedom Caucus and its conservative members for demanding a full repeal and not backing down. They are right. Pass a full repeal, let the Democrats in the Senate fillabuster its passage. The 2018 elections are now getting closer, and too many of those Democratic senators are vulnerable. Let them campaign on that filibuster. It will do them as much good as it did in 2010, 2014, and 2016.

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65 comments

  • Cotour

    Political observation: Trump is receiving a lesson in Washington cat herding, negotiation and political chicken, his learning curve is shortening. He fails for the moment in forcing through the easy way of changing and passing law. I have to assume he will not make the same mistake twice.

    Personal opinion: I am hopeful this valuable lesson will result in the best, market based solution to this healthcare contrived mess to end the un Constitutional Leftist / Socialist wet dream that is Obamacare.

  • Des

    Is repeal what the American people voted for? Between them Clinton and Trump got 94% of the vote. Clinton campaign to preserve Obamacare, Trump promised better coverage at lower price with absolutely no policy on how to achieve this. The repeal you advocate would be ignoring the views of the people who voted for Clinton and Trump.

  • eddie willers

    Is repeal what the American people voted for?

    Yes. In the real world, you have but two choices when voting for President.

    Voting for Trump was the only vote that could make repeal possible.

  • Cotour

    Des:

    The ACA (Obamacare) is but a step to a single payer healthcare system after the planned failure, which is but another step to a more socialist America I.E the New World Order / One World Government. Make no mistake about it. You will hear “But that’s what they do in Europe and Canada”.

    But that’s not what we do in America, the real solution to these kinds of problems are based in capitalism and the individual owning their policies which they should be able to chose, much like whole life insurance policies. One of the crafted problems is, the government created culture of dependency where a segment of the population has been made incapable of taking care of themselves. This may be an oversimplification for my purposes here, but this is what lies at the foundation IMO of this situation.

  • wayne

    Yes, the ACA has got to go, lock, stock-n-barrel.
    That being said, the GOP will blow this golden opportunity, I have no doubt whatsoever.
    They all lie.

    Des– I have no problem engaging in a debate as to how best provide a minimal safety net to people who are truly in need.
    We have 40 million people on SNAP (“foodstamps”) what do you think about contracting that Program?
    We also have 30 million people with Obama-Phones (Lifeline Program, free cell phones) what about contracting that Program?
    (tangentially, if you qualify for Medicaid, you also qualify for SNAP and Lifeline.)

    Cotour–
    I would add additional; (‘cuz this is not a recent development)

    Social Security was but a step to a single payer healthcare system.
    SSDI (“disability”) was but a step to a single payer healthcare system.
    Medicare [parts A-C] were but a step to a single payer healthcare system.
    Medicaid was but a step to a single payer healthcare system.
    Medicare part D was but a step to a single payer healthcare system.
    S-CHIP was but a step to a single payer healthcare system.
    The ACA is but a step to a single payer healthcare system.

    —I’m sensing a trend in the data….

    This stuff never stops, year after year, decade after decade, doesn’t matter WHO is in the Whitehouse.

    Rino/Ryan/Trump-Care;
    Lies, deception, & dissembling. They simply cannot help themselves, it’s pathological.

  • Frank

    This is a most visible example of how difficult it is to end any of the left’s entitlement programs (without the inducement of another entitlement). The left and rinos simply keep repeating how, under Trump’s plan, “more people will loose their medical insurance”.

    House wonks like Ryan have no chance against the biased media coverage Schumer, Pelosi and the left gets.

  • Garry

    Cotour wrote,

    “Political observation: Trump is receiving a lesson in Washington cat herding, negotiation and political chicken, his learning curve is shortening. He fails for the moment in forcing through the easy way of changing and passing law. I have to assume he will not make the same mistake twice.”

    I disagree with “I have to assume”; I don’t see any evidence that Trump is learning on the job. I hope he does, but I need to be convinced, and the clock is ticking.

  • Cotour

    Political observation: Trump attempts to change the Washington power paradigm and muscle his uncooperative cats with threats and ultimatums.

    https://www.axios.com/mulvaney-if-vote-fails-well-leave-obamacare-in-place-2327184512.html

    Says (?): “either pass his bill or live with Obamacare.”

    I think he plays a bit too hard, no patience, no finesse? A second Trump term might not be so certain, but Trump is the negotiation savant. It can only get crazier.

  • mkent

    “Is repeal what the American people voted for?”

    Yes. When ObamaCare has been on the ballot, it’s lost. Big time. By a 2-1 margin. The American people don’t want it and have never wanted it.

  • LocalFluff

    If the Republicans don’t reform Obamacare it will undo itself next year or so, that’s at least a common view based on extrapolating the trends. The mid-term elections will give him 60% majority in the Senate, his senators that he will campaign for. It’s not a coincidence that he held a rally in Rand Pauls’ home state Kentucky this week, it was in order to intimidate him, he could’ve brought up a rival to Rand Paul on the stage. Then he can make a real repeal and replace. Time is on his side as Obamacare collapses and the mid-term election comes closer. Politicians lack the experience of dealing with a shrewd businessman, they are relatively easy to fool. I think they are scared by Trump’s ultimatum and will vote for the reform today.

    @Des
    Hillary Clinton actually campaigned on reforming Obamacare because it is so dysfunctional. Bill Clinton publicly supported her by calling Obamacare “the craziest thing” while describing how it destroys peoples’ finances and health. “Repeal and replace” is just another word for “reform”.

  • LocalFluff

    Oh, I see that Kentucky is senate majority leader Mitch McConnell’s home state too.

  • Cotour

    Garry:

    Political observation and strategy projection: Trump, in order to break a log jam and change direction will throw a bomb into the mix, in this case an ultimatum. The goal is to shock those locked into their own reality into another reality. I do not believe that this proposed solution is Trumps preferred solution.

    I will again assume that he sees this in two ways. 1. Let Paul Ryan do his RINO thing and see where that goes and then move on to what he really wants, tax reform. Obamacare will eventually destroy itself in time and at that point everyone will have to accept Trumps solution. And 2. After Ryan’s manipulation fails there will be an opportunity to what he actually wants.

  • wayne

    What I’m hearing—
    If Trump doesn’t get Repeal in Name Only, he’ll subject us to a collapsing Obamacare world.
    Who the hell does he think he is?
    I would add– “collapsing” does NOT mean it will “go away.” The ACA is the Law, unless and until it is repealed “in its entirety.”
    None of these people are under Obamacare, why should they care?
    “Business as Usual.”
    The GOP WILL BLOW this, and DJT is responsible, 100%. His ideas, his people, his responsibility.
    Yowza, Trump acts like he isn’t in charge and his true-believer’s are busily contorting themselves into pretzels.

    (tangentially–It will be a miracle if we get the SCOTUS nominee approved.)

  • wayne

    “Obamacare will eventually destroy itself in time and at that point everyone will have to accept Trumps solution.”
    Hardly. The ACA will remain the law, unless and until it is repealed. “Collapsing” does not imply it will go away, “collapsing” means endless spending and borrowing to prop it up.

    Repeal In Name Only, IS Trumps “solution,” he’s not above it all, he’s directly 101% responsible.
    He will sign it and he will own it.

  • Cotour

    ” Trump acts like he isn’t in charge and his true-believer’s are busily contorting themselves into pretzels.”

    Trump is allowing Ryan and his RINO political weasels to fail and then he will be more positioned to dominate him or anyone else who appears on the scene as the Speaker. He is not in charge……….yet. Trump plays long.

    “(tangentially–It will be a miracle if we get the SCOTUS nominee approved.)”

    Gorsuch will be approved even if the nuclear option is used, and it may not have to go to that level. Out of chaos should come a new power structure in the Republican leadership. This is political analysis.

  • wayne

    “Trump is allowing Ryan and his RINO political weasels to fail…”

    Trump doesn’t support RINO-Care?? He’s vowed to “defeat” any Conservative that doesn’t support HIS crap-o-la.
    Trump is the head of the GOP. Trump IS a RINO, and therein is the problem.
    Trump loves Paul Ryan, and Mitch, and Rince, and DeStefano, etc., etc., etc.
    Trump loves Obamacare as well.
    He’s lying and he’s playing us all.

  • Commodude

    Repeal in name only (the titular American Health Care Act) isn’t Pres. Trump’s bill, it’s a bill designed to appease the lily-livered RINOs in the house who don’t understand exactly how angry their constituents are. It was introduced into the House and Senate, and was as much a creature of compromise as the ACA.

    Pres. Trump is behind the bill as a matter of process, in this case I believe his trust in the House establishment RINOs is mislaid. I very uneasily agree with Sen. Cotton (frankly I think Sen Cotton on most days is a fool, hence my unease with agreeing with him) when he states there won’t be a phase two or phase three.The RINOS want Pres. Trump’s hide as much as, if not more than, the Democrats.

  • Cotour

    Wayne: Your, Sloe and Wan diagnosis is showing.

    “Sloe and Wan diagnosis: Basically translates into the inability to distinguish some things or circumstances in other than Black and White terms such as sarcasm, humor and nuanced things like politics. This condition afflicts the high I.Q. (Nerd types) or intellectually gifted. Like many gifts they can be a double edged swords.

    Like a computer where there are only on or off values the Sloe and Wan afflicted have difficulty seeing the gray where thinking differently can translate into potential and opportunity.”

    Stay calm and try to see further than this moment, from the chaos there will be order.

  • wayne

    Commodude–
    good stuff, in large part. I would quibble over some things, but good stuff.

  • wayne

    Cotour–
    your true-believer-ism, is a shining example for all the other true-believer’s.

  • Cotour

    Stay calm and lets see where this all ends up.

  • Garry

    Cotour, you and I differ primarily in that you seem to think you can read Trump’s mind, and you tend to attribute thoughts and motivations to him that may be accurate, but for which I don’t see solid evidence.

    Black and white thinking generally isn’t accurate, but if you assume that your particular shade of gray is exactly what is going on, then you’re just as blind.

    I don’t presume to know exactly what anybody thinks, and I’m still trying to figure out what Trump’s approach is. I’m reasonably sure that he sees most things as negotiations, but one of the factors that make him effective in negotiations is that his counter party has a hard time telling where he’s coming from.

    At this point, all I know is that if this bill fails, he’s going to disassociate himself from it. I don’t assume that he was against it from the beginning, or that he designed it; based on his strong-arm tactics I tend to think he was generally for it, but there’s no way to tell for sure.

    Give me someone’s actions and words, and I can attribute them to competence, incompetence, good intentions, or malice; I can change my assumptions based on whether I want to promote them or criticize them.

    I see you assuming a lot about Trump; you may be right, you may be wrong, you may be right in some instances and wrong in others, but I do my best not to make assumptions until we see more of Trump in action and he shows signs of consistency. I can image all kinds of scenarios, but there’s not enough evidence yet one way or another.

  • Cotour

    Garry, stay calm and lets see where this all ends up.

    ” I do my best not to make assumptions until we see more of Trump in action and he shows signs of consistency.”

    I like to make assumptions about people based on what I can collect and see how close I can come to reality over time. IMO Trump is in the process of putting Ryan or any other Speaker, who has real power that opposes Trump, in a vulnerable place where they must capitulate to Trump. That IMO is what this is all about in the long term.

    I am comfortable in my opinions.

  • Wayne: The last line in this article might interest you: “Ryan’s pal Reince Priebus may also be in the crosshairs, per Bloomberg.”

  • Garry

    Comfortable in your opinions to what confidence interval?

    Most events / phenomena start off as more or less a Rorschach test, which I try to resist until I collect enough facts. This is especially true in politics, which is part of what makes us so polarized.

    Gradually, over time, patterns emerge that don’t require imagination to see, only (relatively) objective observation.

    I don’t feel we’ve reached that point with Trump yet.

  • Cotour

    I have a pretty high confidence level.

    I have to think that Trump is in the processes of restructuring (read destroying) his resistance from the Republican leadership in order that he can operate and run HIS / The Bannon agenda. He is allowing the leadership to sink themselves as he stands by them, and he will point his finger at them and blame them as he takes over. And they will attempt to blame him and retain their power. I say Trump prevails.

    I have pointed out previously that Trump is on a Washington power / manipulation learning curve and he is not trusting anyone who was there before he got there. Its only been 60 plus days, he will need at least 6 months (?) plus before any of his agenda will be revealed and come about. And it may not be as Conservative as everyone here would like…….but it will be. I would prefer it be more Conservative than Liberal, but I am certain that it will not be leftist.

    What is hard to see is what forces I.E. the CIA, NSA, The FED, The IMF, Bilderberg etc. etc. will be applying there special kind of manipulation and threats against Trump in all of this shifting / fluid power game. These sub / “Deep state” / “Dark” forces have very long and far reaching agendas and I will assume that they see a new president as just a detail that needs to be influenced and controlled. Who is really running what?

  • BSJ

    “He’s lying and he’s playing us all.”

    Glad to see someone else see Tricky Trump for who he is.

  • LocalFluff

    I largely agree with Cotour. Trump will win win win this. Either way, he’s got a winning plan. He’s on for four years and doesn’t much need to care about congress failures these first couple of years. Let the parties and the institutions they depend on, fail. Doesn’t hurt Trump at all in the long run. Actually it would only increase his popularity as a white knight fighting the ugly clogged up political establishment in the stinking useless swamp.

    It’s not as if he would get any worse press because of it, hahaha, the MSM has burned their all their ships already long ago. Whatever the Ctupid News Network says matters nothing at all anymore. They’ve transitioned from fake news to Ctupid news.
    https://youtu.be/OpyEKfhikrA

  • Cotour

    BSJ:

    We are discussing politicians here, lets not apply our pedestrian rules of operation where they do not apply, this is about the acquisition of and the retention of real power. All of the players here are by definition liar’s and they are all “playing” us, its the power game.

    “He’s lying and he’s playing us all.” Really? Thats what all politicians do! Where have you been? That is their job description in the pursuit of power. Name me one modern politician, make that any politician that has ever lived that is not engaged in what you (and Wayne) have identified.

    Don’t even bother to look there are none.

  • Cotour

    Local:

    The best part of that clip was the “Rocky Baloa” last 5 seconds of it…………very funny!

  • wayne

    Trump’s Chief of Staff, is Rense Priebus.
    Rense is the leader of the swamp.
    Trump chose the swamp.
    It’s not that they can’t repeal Obamacare, they do not want to, and they never have, not really. It’s all just endless lies. They can’t stop themselves.

    I always suspected Trump was a liar– didn’t take long for him to prove it to me, beyond a shadow of a doubt.

    “win, win, win,” sorta depends on what the definition of “win,” is.

    Trump beat HRC, old news.

  • wayne

    “Trump is on a Washington power / manipulation learning curve and he is not trusting anyone who was there before he got there. Its only been 60 plus days, he will need at least 6 months (?) plus before any of his agenda will be revealed and come about.”

    Huh?

  • Cotour

    Wayne:

    Just sit back a watch what happens, the die is cast (meaning the election) and your hand wringing is doing you no good. I am concerned about you.

  • Garry

    So Cotour, was this whole process just Trump setting up Ryan et al for failure? Or did things not go as planned and Trump is reacting? In other words, is there method to his madness, or madness to his method?

  • Cotour

    IMO in this situation Trump wins either way, failure or success. I initially did not like Trumps threat but then thought differently about it.

    He gets behind Ryan because Ryan has the political “solution” and he does hold a high position that demands some level of respect from Trump. “Go ahead and put forth your solution, I will be behind you Paul. We must work as a team”. And if Ryan is successful then the plan goes to the next step.

    BUT, if Ryan is not successful in his plan then Trump owns him and he will be obligated to back Trump and his solution which is probably much more to the point. I think it is Bannon who wants to be the big player here and Ryan and Mitch are standing in his way. Bannon needs them to stumble.

    Remember we can not always apply the pedestrian rules that business plays by in the real world to politics, there is no exact correlation. Why? Because inside of the belt way exists literally the most powerful fantasy land on the planet and it is based in government and politics. Aren’t they all Americans and don’t they all want whats best for our country? That would be a reasonable question to be asked by a reasonable person who exists in the real world. But thats not at all how things work in politics. Its always first about the acquisition of power and/or the retention of power and then see how that figures in to the direction the country moves toward.

    Any CEO will allow their high level people to take control and be successful………..but you better be measurably and demonstrably successful. Success and you are golden, you can come and go as you please. Fail and you either get fired or you disappear within the organization.

  • wayne

    Cotour–
    I’ve been concerned about progressive statism, my entire adult-life. I’m just shocked how quickly Trump pivoted toward blatant progressive statism, so quickly.
    (And they dare threaten us with “we’ll just keep Obamacare and punish you all for not loving Crony-Rino-Ryan-Trumpcare.”)

    Obamacare is the law and moves forward, until and unless it is repealed.

    Hillary had to be stopped. Old news.
    Now, Trump is the Man, and it’s all on him.
    Priebus, Ryan, McConnell, and Trump, hand-in-glove, progressive statist rino’s.

  • BSJ

    Tricky Trump is more tricky than any Dick and slicker than any Willie that’s ever been US President.

    Been that way all along.

    Really Cotour, He’s your chosen liar so that makes it OK?

  • Edward

    Repeal is what Trump promised. Repeal is what America voted for. Nuts to Obamacare, and the sooner the better, preferably in 2009. “Repeal and replace” does not mean “reform;” it means repeal it in its entirety, kill it, draw and quarter it, immolate it, do not let any of it come back, and let the private-ownership, free-market capitalist system do its work to rebuild the greatest healthcare system in the world that it had so successfully built previously, before the government destroyed it.

    From the article: “Abandoning negotiations, President Donald Trump demanded a make-or-break vote on health care legislation in the House, threatening to leave “Obamacare” in place and move on to other issues if Friday’s vote fails.

    Trump is now declaring that he will abandon this promise unless he gets this bill on his desk, but this bill merely keeps most of Obamacare in place. This is why it is rejected by those who voted for repeal.

    Trumps abandonment of this promise is disappointing for several reasons.
    1) It shows, once again, that he is not interested in keeping his promises. He is turning out to be far more like a politician than expected, the liar who plays us rather than the guy who is of the people and for the people bringing back government of the people. (It is funny how Cotour is willing to accept this new reality of Trump, the politician, as the man he supported all along.)

    2) It shows that his powers of negotiating a deal are not as strong as advertised, as he was unable to negotiate a deal with the conservatives, who are on the side of Trump’s promised repeal.

    3) Worse, he was unwilling to negotiate with the Democrats for a deal for the promised repeal, choosing to support Obamacare-not-so-light.

    4) He gives up much more easily that we had been led to believe. So much for tenacity.

    If Trump keeps up like this, he will be a great disappointment. I am beginning to hope for something that I previously thought unthinkable: Trump’s resignation. Most presidents have made great strides in their first 100 days. This is why those first days are so closely watched. It is not the first six months that are seen as crucial to a new president.

    Cotour,
    We do not want to sit back and watch what happens. You are the one who said, during the campaign, that we would have to influence what he did, but rather than you choosing to follow through with the influence to make sure that he does the right things, you are now willing to accept virtually anything that he does and have us just watch as he mucks it all up.

    It may be too late to do anything about him, now, and you may be concerned about us, but we are complaining to you that you are responsible for the prolongation of these liberal Democrat policies. Now you declare Trump to be a winner no matter what happens. You sound like a climate change fanatic who declares victory no matter what the weather is like today.

    Trump may win, but the rest of us are still among the three hundred million losers from the ill effects of Obamacare.

    We might as well have voted for Clinton, for all the good (or bad) Trump is doing for us.

  • Cotour

    If you didn’t notice, Trump was influenced today, his learning curve continues. He will prevail in the end. 100 days, 180 days, 360 days, who cares? When it gets done it gets done.

  • Garry

    The learning curve is only pertinent if there’s actual learning going on. Maybe there is, maybe there isn’t; I wouldn’t assume that learning is happening at breakneck speed.

  • Cotour

    PS: All presidents have released their tax returns since I think Nixon, just like 100 days is an enshrined metric. Both of these standards / “norms” may be in the process of being adjusted.

  • Cotour

    So, Garry, given a choice between assuming that a fairly accomplished person is either learning or not learning in a new environment you choose to assume that he is unable to learn? Does that really make sense to you?

    I understand your fear and frustration but its going to take some time.

  • Garry

    You aren’t reading carefully and are missing the nuance: I’m not assuming anything either way, and there’s not enough evidence to convince me one way or another. And it’s not binary; there are different extents of learning, different rates of learning, and even learning the weong lessons.

    There’s no alternative to wait and see at this point.

  • Edward

    Cotour,
    The influence is not the influence that you promised to do; you have outsourced it to RINO Congresscritters. The influence and learning is also in the wrong direction, since Trump announced that he will abandon this promise.

    You keep telling us to wait and see. We have waited, and we saw. Not only did this Congress not pass the very same bill that they have previously passed — without 60 Senators — but they have mucked up the entire concept of repeal.

    Your assurances have stopped being reassuring.

  • wayne

    The potentiality of Trumps awesome wonderfulness manifests his unique ability to inject new ways of thinking into his growth potential as an actualized holder of power, seeking to find his natural level as a leader among men, in a world within his own, bound only by his will to express the hidden aspects of his innate brilliance as it manifests and synthesizes its unique interconnectedness with the actual levels of power, rather than the imaginary constraints underpinning his multi-level, multi-phasic, rerouting of the power flows through the upper conduits of the System, in a manner that only he and he alone, can actualize to its fullest potential, (over all inferior ways of achieving potential hidden greatness) while others, not having achieved the potential of potentiality, can only, in the final analysis, to the end of life, lament they have not achieved the potential for greatness that he strives for in the unique manner known only to himself.

  • Cotour

    Sorry to disappoint you Edward, maybe you can adjust your time line a bit.

    There is always that nice glass of Pinot Noir in the interim.

  • Cotour

    And get a glass of wine for Wayne while you are at it, he is losing it.

  • LocalFluff

    Edward, There’s no majority for repealing Obamacare. People haven’t voted for that. What is Trump supposed to do about it? He let the Republicans try to agree on any kind of replacement, but they failed to do their job. The party spans from socialists to neocons to libertarians to Christian fundamentalists. It is a party in name only, it is not a functioning organization with any discernible standpoint on any issue. And the failures of both parties is a strength for the president.

    I think that in 4 years both MSM and both parties will have permanently transformed beyond recognition.

  • Cotour

    I re read my initial comment in this series of comments on this subject and decided to repost it because it was concise and it is correct and illustrates Trumps Washington learning curve perfectly. Especially after the replacement failed. Short term failure is a good thing, it focuses the mind.

    Trump will now turn this thing (and all other issues) upside down and backwards and will have a personal strategic lock on a solution when this all comes up again. And Ryan will be forced into the #2 subordinate position. A failed jr. executive must be disciplined, made an example of and to be gotten in line or replaced. Long term failure is not acceptable:

    “Political observation: Trump is receiving a lesson in Washington cat herding, negotiation and political chicken, his learning curve is shortening. He fails for the moment in forcing through the easy way of changing and passing law. I have to assume he will not make the same mistake twice.

    Personal opinion: I am hopeful this valuable lesson will result in the best, market based solution to this healthcare contrived mess to end the un Constitutional Leftist / Socialist wet dream that is Obamacare.”

  • Edward

    Cotour,
    You keep telling me that alcoholism is the cure to my complaints, but I find that conservative governance is a far superior cure. I didn’t need to drink when Reagan was president, but now you advocate living in a drunken stupor under Trump, just as you recommended last year, under Obama. Drinking is not a solution, as the problems remain unsolved.

    You wrote: “I re read my initial comment in this series of comments on this subject and decided to repost it

    Reposting it does not make it any less false than it was the first time. In addition, I have learned that your opinion does not change when I and others point out the folly of your wet dreams; it is futile to expect you to change. I do not reply to you with any such expectation but to help inform others who read these comments as to why and how you and Trump are wrong, when you two are wrong, in case the readers do not know already.

    With luck, we will get a real conservative president in the next election. Sooner, if we can get Trump to realize that he should resign because he is not helping but hurting the country. My intention is to convince others to vote conservative, next time (you are beyond hope, and perhaps all of New York State is as hopeless as the (People’s) Republic of California).

    LocalFluff,
    You wrote: “He let the Republicans try to agree on any kind of replacement, but they failed to do their job.

    Trump is supposed to be a leader. For the Obamacare bill, he outsourced his leadership role to the RINOs in Congress. No wonder we saw a bill that only a liberal Democrat could love.

    Trump is supposed to be a top notch, expert negotiator, but as I said before he only tried to negotiate the conservatives into abandoning the promise that they (both Trump and the conservatives) had made rather than negotiate with the Democrats to make the promise happen.

    Now he intends to punish We the People by continuing to break his promise to us and continue to not repeal Obamacare, which contains a mandate determining how we are to spend our own money. That is not a concept of liberty; it is tyranny.

    Welcome to Trump’s America, same as Obama’s America, land of the formerly free.

  • pzatchok

    I for one think Trump came out the winner on this one.

    We all know that there was NO WAY they would or could come up with a repeal and replace bill this fast.
    The real losers are the Conservative caucus who didn’t have one ready and on hand. For all their bitching they should have been ready but have they even pushed one out in from of the press? No.
    We all knew the RINO’s wouldn’t do squat but exactly what they did do. Propose a stupid do nothing law to vote on. All that would do is give them ownership of the old Obama law and let the dems off the hook. Stupid move.

    Trump only backed the RINO’s to show them he could support them. Do you really think he thought they would come up with a real bill that would at least look like it might work. Hell no. He always had the chance to say “I gave you guys a chance and you blew it, I’m supporting the guys who got me here the conservatives and the electorate.”

    Now lets sit back and watch Trump finish his art of the deal.

  • Cotour

    “There is always that nice glass of Pinot Noir in the interim.”

    I suggested you (and Wayne) have ONE glass of wine . No “alcoholism”, no “stupor”, adults sometimes need an adult beverage when things do not go their way and they become forlorn. I suggested it due to your Sloe and Wan, high I.Q. nerd diagnosis. Your intellectual advantages in some situations impairs you in others.

    Surely your hyperbol is just an attempt to sooth your nerves, point a finger of blame at what is incomprehensible to you. I stand by my observations.

  • Cotour

    I guess its fired, the pressure is on to restructure.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-teases-fox-news-show-blames-ryan-healthcare-fail-article-1.3009437

    Trump will never again blindly or consciously allow such a failure by an allie or subordinate where he pays the major price. Lets call it a journey on the Washington power manipulation learning curve.

  • Garry

    Cotour wrote,

    “adults sometimes need an adult beverage when things do not go their way and they become forlorn.”

    Anecdotal evidence suggests that this is a myth. I have never known anyone who gained anything by having a drink when they’re forlorn, but I have seen many cases where they became even more forlorn, often because the person in question couldn’t stop at one drink.

    Maybe I’m just surrounded by people with bad genes.

    Or maybe you were referring to kool-aid.

  • Cotour

    Sometimes, not all the time.

    Lets not through even more hyperbole conflate this into some sort of social commentary about the evils of drinking. There are time in an adults life when under pressure like, Edward and Wayne are under that ONE glass of Pinot Noir might be had.

    If anyone who is reading this has a problem with alcohol I am not suggesting that you have any alcoholic beverages or any other mood altering substance in order to abate your stress level in the age of Trump.

  • Steve Earle

    Cotour said:

    “….Lets not through even more hyperbole conflate this into some sort of social commentary about the evils of drinking….”

    Hows that bumper sticker go? “I drink, I get drunk, I fall down, No Problem!” LOL

    Or my other fave: “DAMM! Drunks Against Mad Mothers…” HA!

    Politics, like drinking, is only a problem to those who have an addictive-type personality. Alcohol is only a problem for those few that can’t put the drink down. And Politicians are only a problem for those who take them too seriously.

    Moderation is the key for both, as it is with so many things in Life.

    Cotour is correct, there has never been a politician that has not lied. We can only hope he is right about Trump and that Trump is enough of a non-Politician to play the long game and keep the lying to a minimum….

  • Garry

    Politics is also a problem for those who drink the kool-aid, and sometimes I think I see traces of Goofy Grape around the corners of Cotour’s mouth.

  • Cotour

    “Goofy Grape”?

    Do I really come across as a Kool Aid drinker to you? Really?

    I have pointed this out many times in the past, Steve Earl, you are a wise man.

  • Max

    “You guys make my head hurt”

    This must be what it feels like to watch a conclave of wizards trying to decide the fate of the world. The destruction is certain, but what method? The bones, the dice, crystal ball, tea leaves… I’m sure the method will be wise,. I’m going to slowly back out of here before you all decide a sacrifice is needed…

    By the way, you all did well in your arguments but Wayne takes the cake for that entire paragraph with big words strung together in a fluid motion and 1 Period. The only way I could describe it is as a new form of poetry. I don’t remember what it said, but I like the way it sounded!

  • Edward

    Cotour,
    You wrote: “I stand by my observations.”

    Your observations during the campaign have not panned out to be reality. We continue to have to wait and see him eventually turn into the promised president that he is supposed to be. Trump has failed to keep his promise of repealing Obamacare, he didn’t even try, and once again you insist that alcohol is the solution. Maybe it solves problems in your world, but in the real world the fact remain that Trump intentionally broke several promises, just like the typical politician.

    Instead, Cotour, when you get forlorn you tell us to wait and see, possibly after trying to drown your troubles in Pinot Noir. Please stop projecting your non-solution onto the rest of us. You and your guy are the ones who are now under pressure to perform as promised, yet Trump has failed to perform, and you seem unwilling to do the promised influencing over his liberal Democrat ways. Perhaps you need to take your own advice, drink a glass of Pinot Noir, and once you have consumed enough courage, call the White House to encourage him to be properly conservative, as you promised during the campaign and the transition period.

    Or maybe you should not. You seem to think that Trump is doing just fine by backing the Obamacare-not-so-lite bill and breaking his promises like a typical politician. I’m not sure that you would give proper conservative advice.

    You seem to not know what “hyperbole” means. You use it when I make observations, but when you make observations you use excuses for Trump’s failings.

    Your guy has been a disappointment for a long time, and now that he is in office he is getting worse, not better.

    pzatchok wrote: “We all know that there was NO WAY they would or could come up with a repeal and replace bill this fast.

    Congress not only has a repeal and replace bill, they passed it and sent it to Obama, yet they did not even try to do so this time. Here is an example of an already written and prepared bill:
    http://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/republican-obamacare-bill-does-not-have-votes/

    Cotour wrote: “Lets call it a journey on the Washington power manipulation learning curve.

    Let’s not. I have already called it lack of leadership ability. Trump is famous for negotiations, yet he failed miserably in this fiasco. He negotiated with (read: “bullied”) the wrong group, and now people are trying to make excuses for his incompetence or betrayal. If this is an example of his leadership and negotiation skills, then we can stop wondering why he has led four companies into bankruptcy and start worrying about the future of our country.

    A win for Trump would have been a repeal bill on his desk and signed. At best this is a learning experience, where we learn that he gives up easily at his first loss.

    I am not pointing fingers, I am pointing out the reality that others deny.

    1) Trump is supposed to lead, not outsource his leadership. He has the ability and responsibility to propose bills that he wants to sign. Kennedy’s Rice University speech is an example of leadership.

    2) Trump is supposed to be a great negotiator, but he failed.

    3) Trump made important promises that are the sole reason for his being president, but he is not keeping them. He does not even try to keep them.

    4) Trump is supposed to win every time, but this is definitely not a win. He told us that he would win so much that we would get tired of winning. We need not worry about such exhaustion.

    5) Obama’s America still stands and is metastasizing; Trump is not overturning it. Even Obama was able to negotiate Republicans into signing onto his socialist, Keynesian stimulus package as his first major action. Now Republicans are willing to sign onto Obamacare-not-so-lite. I saw this trend when I left the Republican Party.

    6) Trump is now abandoning his promise to repeal Obamacare.

    7) Trump supporters are now making excuses for his failures and failings, where we keep having to wait for his first success sometime in the far distant future. Some people are even trying to convince us that failure is success; how Orwellian.

    Trump is not the person who was promised to us. He is not who some claimed he was during the primary and election; he is not who they claim he is now; and six months from now he will still not be who they claim he is.

    From all indications, he is still the lifelong liberal Democrat that he has always been.

  • Pzatchok

    Wow.
    A few million dollar business deal could take a year of more to finalize and you people are bitching about a trillion dollar deal not getting done in 70 days.

    With attitudes like that you guys must never be happy with anything politicians do.

    Never a silver lining.

    I even gave Obama a chance even though I didn’t vote for him. But he failed so bad even his own party crashed with him. In the end he did better than I ever thought he could do.
    He left this nation a little battered but still alive and powerful. And the best part is we now have a vocal and motivated group fighting to make this nation great again.

  • Edward

    Pzatchok complained: “A few million dollar business deal could take a year of more to finalize and you people are bitching about a trillion dollar deal not getting done in 70 days.

    The timetable was set by the politicians, not by We the People. They are the experts in what amount of time they need. If the amount of money involved were the driver, then perhaps we should expect trillion dollar bills to take around a million years to pass Congress.

    But in this case, they tried one version that didn’t fit the promise and gave up the effort when this terrible bill was soundly rejected. That concept is important, so let me reinforce it:

    They gave up keeping the most important promise of the 2016 election when they wrote their bill.

    Pzatchok complained: “With attitudes like that you guys must never be happy with anything politicians do.

    Considering that politicians mostly make laws, and laws mostly remove our freedoms, then yes, we are mostly unhappy with the continual loss of our god given (natural) freedoms.

    It was so much better in the old days when Congressman was a part time job, with fewer people trying to justify their jobs.

    Pzatchok observed: “He left this nation a little battered but still alive and powerful.

    The Perons took a long time to turn Argentina from the other American economic power, a century ago, into the corrupt minor blip in the economic world that it has been for the past half century or so. If we fail to get back to a nation that prioritizes productivity and ingenuity over welfare, being a nation of people (read: corruption) rather than a nation of laws (read: laws apply equally, even if your name is Clinton), and other people’s money paying for what are now defined as rights, then we are likely to go the way of Argentina, too.

    Meanwhile, we have to regain our god given (natural) liberties (such as choosing how to spend our own money as we see fit rather than government directing us to purchase useless, overly expensive, health insurance), rebuild our military, reinforce our border protection to protect our citizens (e.g. Kate Steinle) from foreign do-bad-ers, and increase our labor force participation from 62-1/2% (e.g. get tens of millions off welfare and get others back into the workforce).

  • pzatchok

    I don’t think anyone gave up.

    Think of this as a football game.

    I think the RINO’s put forth a weak play in hopes to gain a little running room and a first win under their belts. They still don’t have confidence in the conservative electorate.
    Think of it as a weak running play to give themselves some room. Well it failed. So what.
    We still have the ball, all three houses and soon the umps, the supreme court also.
    We have a 2 year time clock ,4 years if we pick up a few more seats.

  • Edward

    pzatchok wrote: “Well it failed. So what.

    So, they didn’t even try to win, the play that they made was not even intended to be a win or even to get the ball down the field. It seems that the play came up with a touchback.

    Meanwhile, there are millions of us still unable to afford to buy government-mandated healthcare insurance while maintaining a diet of food. For us, that is a big so what. And that failure of a bill that they put forth would not have made insurance any less mandated or any more affordable.

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