Who can win an argument with someone who thinks an unarmed protest is an insurrection? Oh, you told us: I can, thank you very much. Who was charged with insurrection? That’s right. No one. You talk about facts not being facts, but the facts are on my side, not yours. It is your facts that aren’t factual.

You, like most Democrats, live in a fantasy world; you just cannot admit it. For you, when Republicans speak, that is massive evidence of violence and insurrection, but when Democrats are violent and murderous, that is merely free speech.

Every time you comment you demonstrate your dishonesty and prove Robert Zimmerman’s point: “In other words, these Democrats aren’t interested in moral behavior, they are interested in doing whatever they can to put those who disagree with them in prison. We call that behavior fascist, totalitarian, vicious, and barbaric.“

Here is some more fodder for you to digest.

ENTERING THE GENIUS ZONE

https://www.sigma3ioc.com/post/boom-some-reality-and-the-end-of-income-taxes

You seem to be on the Joy Behar / Joe Scarborough level.

Keep drinking.

You usually work backward from your conclusions and make the evidence fit regardless of whether it does or not. Your facts are often not even facts. You are the last person who should be accusing anyone of dishonesty.

Ah Ed, how can I win an argument with someone who claims the Jan. 6 insurrection was a peaceful protest despite massive evidence on video that it was not. You’re not dealing with facts. There’s no amt of evidence that gets through to you.

As for Couture, I’m not sure there is a thought process behind what you post here. But, I do find it entertaining to see how far gone the MAGA cult is these days.

Thank God for other things to do, saves one from oneself and sharing there thinking and thought process outside of the inside of their brain.

But it is instructive as to that inside thought process and its inconsistencies and irrational disjointed conclusions.

I’m keeping a toe in blogging about space while pursuing another venture. I’d write more if I had more time.

Trump is a creation of Trump. His actions are their own. They speak for themselves. The Republicans are the ones who nominated him and back his bid for the presidency.

If we had another president who acted like Nixon, would we blame Republicans for that? Could we say the Republican party created this person? What you say makes no sense.

You wrote: “The only real difference is that Clinton was a Democrat and Trump is a Republican.”

Except that Trump was a Democrat when he did the Clinton thing, cheating on their wives, during the time that Trump was still a Democrat Party hero; it was only later that Trump defected to the Republicans and became Democrat enemy no. 1 (with Musk now a close second: Democrat enemy no. 2). In addition, Clinton did it in the White House on company time (on the clock, our money), and Trump did it off government property on his own time — we were not paying him to do it.

One has to wonder whether Trump has reformed now that he has converted to Republican. Is Trump the same adulterer that he was as a Democrat? He certainly is still honest, since the Democrat persecutors cannot find any real crimes of his, ever, and have to make them up, twisting the letter and intent of the laws into inedible pretzels.

Either way, the Clinton comparison is a red herring, distracting us from the problem at hand. The issue is not who was doing who or when, or whether it is OK because someone else did it (the “two wrongs make a right” fallacy), the question is whether or not we want liberty and justice for all, or do we want political enemies punished and friends rewarded?

Doug cannot win the real argument, so he latches onto the herring like a dog with a bone.

sippin_bourbon: All that you say is true, but it leaves out one essential componet of Messier’s intellectual dishonesty. He now condemns Trump (and is entirely cool with Trump getting a life prison sentence) for the same behaviors by Clinton that were then supposed to be ignored because either “everybody did it” or “it was just his own personal life!”

The only real difference is that Clinton was a Democrat and Trump is a Republican. Thus, the goal is not proper behavior but to use whatever tool is on hand to obtain power for Democrats. Or to put it more bluntly, the goal is power, and power alone.

I can always count on your for the ad Hominem attack.
I see you are still practicing copy and paste journalism.

I did not say Clinton’s actions are a defense of Trump. I said that the acceptance of his actions and behavior, by people like you, is how we got to Trump. If Trump is the monster you make him out to be, it is a monster of your making.

G.W Bush was the first reaction to Clinton. A radical swing the other way, in terms of character, though his prosecution of war leaves much to be desired.

Obama lied his way through 8 years, and everyone of his scandals was again, ignored or buried, and like Bush, no idea how to prosecute a war.

The populist lean to Trump would have never happened without the destruction of character, the lies and coverups about scandals, and undermining the of the legal system, and the use of government power against the people. All of these led to Trump. All of these are at the feet of the left. A left that is willing to overlook any fault of their own to achieve a short term goal, while pointing and screeching, as you have been doing here.

The beauty of the Constitution is that it is neutral until an individual or a political party chooses to go too far, I.E. threaten the people’s freedom and the Objective system of law and justice.

Here is all the rope you need, you know the rules, go for it.

The people are watching.

Thank you. Your commentary about Congress is spot on in terms of it trying to discern some measure, some degree of the truth. If only more of its members understood their function in this light. At the moment, however, it appears that the Ds all have their own truth, and they understand that they are engaged in a no holds barred war to make it compulsory, lol. Again, a pretty good description of the (complicated) objective reality in which we find ourselves.

Likewise your commentary on Donald Trump. If you are in a war for survival with enemies who wish to utterly destroy your country /
culture / civilization, what kind of generals do you wish to have directing the battles?* In this light, the worst that can be said about President Trump is that he was a slow learner in his first term with respect to just how much of a war for survival he and the country actually were in and what lengths their enemies would go to destroy them. He has since wised up, and hopefully the American electorate will wise up as well.

*One recalls Lincoln’s defense of General Grant. https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2012/oct/21/whiskey-and-the-war-civil-war/

While some would describe Mr. Trump as a mob boss, I lean more to seeing him as The Batman who rises to do what the establishment cannot / will not do to defend the community against the forces of chaos and evil. Likewise, war is what happens when diplomacy / conventional politics fails and there is no alternative to the use of force to defend ones homeland and core values**. Donald Trump may not be the hero (President) that we want, but he is the one that we need.

**Perhaps the biggest of the Democrats’ Big Lies is the proposition that their actions to destroy this country’s existing culture and way of life (cf, Samuel P. Huntington’s Who Are We: The Challenges to America’s National Identity) are entirely justifiable, rising out of their superior morality and understanding of the world. Thus they believe that *anything* that conservatives do or say to resist such efforts to transform society are howling affronts to decency and demonstrate just how stupid, insensitive, and uninformed we are. (Just watch any of the three late evening network talk / variety shows to see this attitude in full noisome flower.) In short, we are just supposed to shut up, play dead, and watch the “better people” destroy Western Civilization and its achievements.

If and when you sober up, you’ll realize that blaming Clinton for destroying some standard by which presidents should behave is one of, if not, the worst argument in defense of Trump. Neithrt George W. Bush nor Barack Obama behaved like Clinton or Trump. Pointing the finger at Clinton doesn’t relieve Trump of responsibility for his behavior. Or the supporters who condemned it from charges of hypocrisy for looking past Trump’s behaior.

Your chance to protect the country from men of poor character has passed. You missed it 25 years ago.

You miss the point, Trumps perceived “mob boss” toughness is his great value.

Remember the rule, the first politician or their proxies (D. Messier) who propose that they are the more moral politician or proxy is a fraud. There is no morality in politics. Government has no morality; the people have morality but not government.

Why? Because the entity government is a thing. And politicians, aspirational or empowered have no obligation to tell anyone the true or be moral. The truth or morality is not the business that they are in.

The problem with Trump in relation to politics and him being a politician? Trump breaks the rule and actually tells the truth about what he intends, and he does it. What do you not understand about that?

https://www.sigma3ioc.com/post/what-is-really-going-on-strategy-over-morality

D. Messier, anyone who addressed your issues was extremely specific and competent.

Like the “progressives” your logic and argument are disjointed and incomplete.

You insist that reality be so, and it is just not.

C’mon Bob. Your writing on this website is oozing with moral comdemnation and righteous indignation of so many things. Yet none of that applies to Trump who behaves like a mob boss. He’s a crook.

Clinton should never have lied under oath about a consensual sexual affair. He was impeached for it. The decision about whether to remove him from office was a political one. The Senate decided not to. Just as the Senate didn’t throw Trump out of office.

I guess one thing we all agree on: Trump is a rat.

No, it is not “If you cannot beat them, join them”.

You are complaining that some standard of behavior or character is being abandon by those willing to vote for Trump.
I am telling you, there is no standard. It is gone. Destroyed. Wiped out.

And the destruction was done, not by Trump, but by the Democrats, starting with Bill Clinton.

I am sorry, no, Trump was not convicted of sexual battery. He was found liable. That was not a criminal trial. The word Liable, not the word Guilty, is used right there in the title of the article you linked. It is not the same, not even close. The burden of proof is not the same. So found liable of committing the crime in SVU Season 13, Episode 11 (what a coincidence!), not found guilty.

Congress has a function and by design it is to reveal through their subpoena power and ability to in public question concerned individuals in government, the business world and the public to reveal to the people some measure, some degree of the truth.

That, besides crafting and passing appropriate legislation is the primary function of the Congress.

There is truth, there is your truth, there is “The Truth” and then there is Objective truth.

And it is put to the people to see through the fog of the political warfare between the two political entities to determine the truth as best as they can determine as it relates to their best self-interests, their freedom, the interests of the country and the preservation of the concepts structured within the Constitution that counterbalances the tendency of government, which is to abuse its power.

Congress, as frustrating as it may seem serves a very essential purpose and that is how one must view these investigations and questionings.

Congress as per the Constitution serves as the illuminating beam of truth that must be shone in the darkest crevasses of government and business. That is the only way, and the politics of the day is attempting to destroy that essential service to the Objective law and justice intent of the Constitution.

Trust NONE of them, fire them often and educate all that you can as to what is in reality going on. Educate, don’t Indoctrinate.

In other words, do the exact opposite of everything that today’s desperate, radical / Leftist controlled Democrat party machine run political party says and proposes.

*Likewise on the network news outlets, where most of the “commentary” on both the left and the right is of exactly the nature (mental masturbation) that Cotour describes. Casuistry elevated to a highly profitable art form.

Nevertheless, just how far, even in the Political Realm, can we stray from any recognizable relationship to the truth and retain any sense of meaning or coherency in our lives?** Or, put another way, can our political wars — where no rules apply — be conducted on behalf of things that are demonstrably untrue and still justify our efforts to prevail in them?. Did the allied troops wading ashore at Omaha Beach believe that what they were doing had no connection to some kind of fundamental truth about the nature and purposes of the country that they were fighting for? For a wonderful discussion of just this point, see the historian Walter Burns’ illuminating volume Making Patriots. https://www.amazon.com/Making-Patriots-Walter-Berns/dp/0226044378

**As a corollary, just how far can a representative democracy stray from acknowledging some semblance of what it is true in terms of the way in which it makes laws and regulates behavior? Oh, right. Exactly what we are now witnessing.

Again, there are two realities working here, but cannot one reality inform — if not justify — the other? And can the American Republic long survive if it is built only on expedient lies?

“Politics is confusing to you? Does not really make sense? Governance and politics are all about power and not about your Pedestrian Realm truth or morality. There are two conversations going on and you are not a part of the conversation that matters when it comes to power. And that’s the truth.

Remember: Those in the Pedestrian Realm (YOU) observe politics once removed as being a competition. And those politically empowered players in the Political Realm on both sides of the political divide are at war and play by rules of warfare structured by the Constitution. And we all understand the rules that apply in warfare, (There are none). This is where the two different conversations begin, and YOU are not even aware of or a part of one of them.”

Do not ever allow yourself to become tangled up in the minutia of an opponent’s rational, justification and logic.

Because that argument is just a distraction in the pursuit of their political warfare goal.

Its not about equating one to the other really.

The Democrats are just bogging down there most threatening competitor down with a legal system which they control much of and tagging him in the short term as a convicted criminal.

And the vast, vast majority among the legal experts, Constitutional scholars and talking media heads all understand to be totally reversible judgements by the higher courts / court.

Itis all just political warfare strategy, plain and simple, period the end.

Over thinking all this and equating or justifying it is just political mental masturbation.

Self-delusion is the best delusion.

https://www.sigma3ioc.com/post/what-is-really-going-on-strategy-over-morality

Having been hoisted by their own petard, and Clinton having so recently doubled down on what he was accused of re: Paula Jones with Monica Lewinsky, he proceeded to commit – in real time – an actual crime – perjury.

At the time, the fellow-travelers of Messier and Clampett here here blew it off – “everybody lies about sex” was the catch-phrase.

That alone leaves them no room to talk about the appearance of hypocrisy,

But wait, there’s more. The Judeo-Christian tradition they wish to go all Alinsky Rule Four upon is rich with flawed human beings too whom God has extended redemption and put in positions to work His will for the good of mankind.

Noah (a drunkard).
Abraham (lied about his marital status to avoid a hassle with a king, throwing his wife under the wagon, er, bus).
Jacob (both the victim of a bait-and-switch by his father-in-law, and a swindler himself against his father in law).
Jacob’s sons (the fathers of the Jewish tribes, who sold their brother into slavery and lied about it to their father).
Moses (guilty of manslaughter).
Samson (whose personal failings led him to the first application of what could be called Mutually Assured Destruction).
David (adulterer, who had his lover’s husband set up and killed to cover it up).

Simon Zelotes (a known terrorist who became one of the Twelve).
Matthew (a despised tax collector of the occupying power, viewed by many as a traitor to his people).
Peter (a loud-mouthed perpetrator of assault with a deadly weapon, that lied about his relationship with an accused insurrectionist).
Saul aka Paul (an accessory to Stephen’s murder, persecutor of Christians, only to join the Twelve as an apostle and become the faith’s greatest evangelist of his time).

And one other name that is not so obvious – a king of a pagan, warmongering nation by the name of Cyrus, who came to respect God and acted to free the Jewish people from the slavery and exile his predecessors had perpetrated upon them – which also was an extension of redemption by God to the entire body of Jewish people, for that slavery and exile was God’s sentence to them for abandoning Him and His ways for generations.

If God can work His will for the good of mankind through the flawed men above, doing that through the abrasive Donald Trump and his past peccadillos is not a stretch in our tradition. (Care to point out the evidence of any cheating on Melania as we speak?)

OTOH, let me repeat that partial list of ongoing offenses the Left perpetrates, to the praise of their supporters, against the American people:

is it moral to make life more costly for your neighbors on the basis of a science-deficient, alarmist BELIEF in impending doom, or a bureaucrat’s opinion on what constitutes “comprehensive” health-care coverage?

Is it moral to force us to either support a public-education system that fails our kids, or effectively pay twice to get them a good education?

Is it moral to impose “worker protections” that undermine the gig economy that has provided more opportunities on both sides of the transactions involved, in favor of the well-connected Big Labor entities whose overreach contributed to jobs leaving this nation … and in the process, discourage initiative and replace it with the complacency of Flounderian trust in “leaders” and “experts”, that leads working people away from protecting their own interests from the agendas of both management and the union bosses?

Is it moral to deceive your neighbors about their responsibilities – and capabilities – as free people, by pigeonholing them into “victims” and “privileged” on the basis of skin color or other surface appearances? As well as deceiving them about your ability to solve their problems FOR them when you can’t tell them as individuals apart from some hypothetical “average citizen”?

You worry about Trump’s personal morality – when the lack of respect for liberty behind each of those positions goes well beyond personal, into the use of the coercive force of law to deny others the rights needed to work around the myopic stupidity inherent in these positions.

In their self-righteous hubris, the Left has instituted an American Inquisition that fills this site’s archives with blacklisted people – as they trade the self-evident truths of respect for INDIVIDUAL life and liberty that have led this nation to thrive – for Our Democracy™, where elected leaders do not have to respect individual rights if it furthers their vision of the “common good” – when they can’t tell you apart from a statistic, but expect you to just submit and “take one for the team” if their “common good” isn’t good for them..

Trumps’ flaws are personal – affecting only those right around them,

His opponents flaws are ongoing, and affect hundreds of millions of our neighbors. Jesus did say that the second-most important commandment was to love our neighbors as we love ourselves – and in that light, Trump has demonstrated by his policy decisions that he lives up to that commandment far better than his overbearing, self-righteous opponents.

I view Trump like Johnny Rico’s superiors in the cinematic Starship Troopers viewed Johnny: “You have the job, until you’re killed or I find someone better.” And at this time, I don’t see anyone better in terms of respecting me as a free man, and expecting me to take the responsibility to get through life making my own decisions.

We are not a theocracy – no matter how the Left wants us to submit to their Pedestaled Elite as though they are priests. There are none righteous, as Isaiah once said; IMO the last truly Holy Man ended his physical presence on Earth two thousand years ago, after he exhorted us to love our neighbors .

I can at least elect someone who actually demonstrates love for their neighbor, instead of treating them as “infants, imbeciles and domestic animals” as our Pedestaled Elite does in Our Democracy™.

Edward: Please note: Partisan Democrats like D. Messier went from screaming “It’s his own personal life!” when it was Clinton to now demanding Trump be sentenced to life for the same kind of behavior. (From what I understand each one of the 37 convictions could result in a 4 year sentence.)

In other words, these Democrats aren’t interested in moral behavior, they are interested in doing whatever they can to put those who disagree with them in prison. We call that behavior fascist, totalitarian, vicious, and barbaric.

I must also add that the Republicans never wanted to put Clinton in prison for his peccadillos. The effort to remove him from office also had as much to do with his perjury before a grand jury.

Who said that we are fine with Trump’s behavior?

What we don’t want is an injustice system that persecutes people for actions that are perfectly legal. This is what we have from the recent court, legal, and law enforcement actions against Trump. Persecutors making up non-existent laws just to punish the administration’s enemies. You and I may find some of his actions less than moral, but as long as they are legal, then the courts should not be involved. There was not violation of any private obligation (except, perhaps, by the woman who agreed not to blab), and there was no violation of any public obligation. No tort. No crime. Yet the courts insinuated themselves into situations that are outside of their purviews.

But that seems to be just fine with you!

One nation under God, with punishment and injustice for all who disagree with you. Do you consider that to be moral behavior on the part of government? Geez, Doug, are you only three years old?

How can anyone know how to stay out of trouble when the courts are willing to persecute you despite doing nothing wrong? No society can last long, when it works in the Soviet way, Lavrentiy Beria style: “Show me the man and I’ll find you the crime.” The United States lasted almost a quarter of a millennium with our justice system, but the Soviets couldn’t last seven decades with the Beria injustice system.

“This supposed reality is a carefully constructed narrative intentionally designed to keep some very unpleasant people in power and to keep everyone else tame & submissive.”

“The truth is, there’s something terribly wrong with this Country, isn’t there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance, coercing your conformity. How did this happen? Who’s to blame?
Well, certainly there are those who are more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you’re looking for the guilty you need only look into a mirror.”

Proves my point.

Chris:

> I do not this Mr Trump has been found guilty of sexual abuse, only refuting the allegation of sexual abuse by a woman who can’t remember what year the accused abuse took place.

Oh good God. There was a jury verdict.

https://apnews.com/article/trump-rape-carroll-trial-fe68259a4b98bb3947d42af9ec83d7db#:~:text=NEW%20YORK%20(AP)%20%E2%80%94%20A,to%20regain%20the%20White%20House.

NEW YORK (AP) — A jury found Donald Trump liable Tuesday for sexually abusing advice columnist E. Jean Carroll in 1996, awarding her $5 million in a judgment that could haunt the former president as he campaigns to regain the White House.

Cat turd has a message for Republicans;

“The fascist Democrat Party has completely destroyed our country from within, we have a wide open border, and they’re (pooping) on the Constitution while you spineless, coward losers get rich on insider trading, rage tweet, and talk about your “principles.”

They’re literally arresting their political opponents and their lawyers and having kangaroo communists show trials – and you pitiful, worthless losers are doing absolutely nothing.”
https://x.com/catturd2/status/1796321813498110450

Both sides claim a version of the moral high ground, but their actions speak louder than their words. “By their fruits you shall know them”

Speaking of moral high ground, Marjorie Taylor green went after Fauci today trying to deflock the pope of Science, leader and divinely inspired profit of the Ministry of health.

“Your repulsive evil science,” she said. “You know what this committee should be doing? We should be recommending you to be prosecuted. We should be writing a criminal referral because you should be prosecuted for crimes against humanity. You belong in prison, Dr Fauci.”

This is the longer nine minute rant with the Democrats interrupting in points of order… reminding me of the question; “that it depends on what the definition of “is” is”or how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2024/06/03/House-covid-19-coronavirus-House-Fauci-grilled/2601717441204/

The Democrats responded with “what about isum” of Trump suggesting that we drink bleach? I would point out that bleach is made from chlorine… And all public water systems have chlorine in them. (chlorine is toxic and is the leading cause of lung cancer in non-smokers from nothing more than taking showers… I would also note that the government Health administrator admitted on the stand that “fluoride has no health benefits”, that it’s a neurotoxin and much more dangerous than lead.)
https://fluoridealert.org/key-topics/tsca-fluoride-lawsuit/

I’m hesitant to weigh in on trumps Play boy billionaire lifestyle. When he ran beauty pageants, surrounding himself with available young women… He was a Democrat.
When Jeffrey Epstein told Trump about some available exotic eastern block models he can introduce him to… it is rumored that that is how he was introduced to Melania who turned him conservative. (Or 14 years on the apprentice as an over paid actor taught him how to fake it.)
What better way to make him a look presidential? They did the same for an actor in Ukraine… good cop? Bad cop? Look what’s happening to the country and ask yourself if we’re being tag teamed? We’re being invaded by millions, the treasury is being emptied, we’re at the brink of a nuclear war, cows are being slaughtered, cream is hard to find, dozens of chicken farms are burning down while the food supply is drying up. The administration has shut down the expansion of coal mines, billions of dollars of new solar panels destroyed by hail storms, the political theater of bird flu has gotten to the point we’re people are worried that they can’t park the cars under trees anymore!
On the subject of moral high ground, whoever thought that Melinda Gates would have a line she could not cross, thousands and thousands of children dead from her vaccine programs in India and Africa but she could not stand the fact her husband was sleeping with children on dozens of trips to pedophile island… And yet he still a celebrity. (I believe there’s a book written about Bill, Trump, Jeffrey all had the same mentor philanthropist. The CIA?)
Nothing is as it seems, billions are spent on telling you how bad Trump is, while making him look really good. Just like when he was running against Hillary… The same game plan because it works so well. Lock her up? Naw, that’s just a slogan. He didn’t really mean it, their friends!

With the supreme court being ignored, and the president spending billions by executive order when it’s the houses responsibility… Who needs the judicial branch and the congressional branch of government anymore? Democracies are not run by representatives… but by the “will of the people”… Whoever that is.

Last chance to save our republic, hold their feet to the fire until they do the right thing… Hold them responsible for their actions, or failure to act. We are quickly losing the ability to know what is true or not. A very dark age.

Credible accusations of sexual abuse against a prominent Democrat, a pretty good parallel to the Trump accusations. And no one can see or hear her and her credible accusations.

Not even a cursory investigation, just dismissed as a nuisance. Possible Russian asset or not. Everything for the Democrats is a Russian operation, just like Hillary. Who by the way should have been also investigated, charged on so many issues, tried and sentenced. But her actions against the country are not able to be seen.

Remember, D. Messier? The James Comey / Hillary news conference: https://youtu.be/MBhHjEejw8s?si=fzXyaerScymRdfXu

He clearly lays out a case to charge “Ma Barker”, but in the end he cannot see how she should be charged.

And once again, there is no such thing as morality in politics, that is a Pedestrian Realm delusion. There is only, especially today, extreme partisan politics and winning. Lie, cheat and steal, do whatever gets the job done.

Your Objectivity is a fleeting vapor.

The people are watching it all and will be giving their feedback soon enough.

And that is how it should be.

https://www.sigma3ioc.com/post/lawyers-courts-and-money

Good for thee but not for me.