Every company we know of has been asked to choose sides, you’re either with us? or against us! Choose wrong and you will be destroyed.
Become a private/public partnership… A stockholder with limited voting rights. Or when the change comes you’re on your own.
The topic of money has been brought up several times in this thread, we instinctively know it’s at the root of this issue. We have the billionaires who received their money from contracts with the government like Gates, Bezos, and others. And then there’s the self-made billionaires who don’t want be controlled.
This election is essentially “The People’s” choice of the “new masters”… the oligarchs with their puppets? Or the billionaires who can afford to say no.
Trump, Elon and those who wished to keep their freedom and make their own decisions are appealing to the public for support.
The money system is collapsing, and so will their wealth and with it, the freedom of choice. For us all.

For example, Putin had his meeting with his security council recently and can you guess what they talked about? Not Ukraine, not the escalation of hostilities with NATO and United States, not the Middle East, they talked about how to “stabilize the currency” to promote trade within the bricks nations when the western money system collapses.
This was more important than anything else facing their nation!

Congress/Federal reserve is printing $1 trillion every hundred days, the National debt now surpasses all savings. The price of everything is going up to adjust for the fallen dollar which will soon be worthless.
State Street and Vanguard have been siphoning money out of Black rock as black rock goes into bankruptcy with the majority of 401(k)’s and retirement accounts.
What is the missing clue to this conundrum? How will the freedom loving billionaires fight when their money no longer has any meaning?
Here’s a 14 minute explanation of what’s coming to give you a different point of view, including a short explanation on how Elon musk “used to be one of them” taking money in loans from the government in exchange for licenses… and now has the power and the desire to deny them but it will cost him. what was Twitter, $40 billion? to maintain an outlet for free speech? CBDC programmable money.
https://youtu.be/3capKnik0Lc?si=coY19MckgVNwtckN

He and Trump are gambling on the American people to rise up and take back their freedom. It’s all or nothing, his last chance to have the freedom to do what he wants with his money or they will take it all away from him/us. Just as they’re doing to that billionaire when he landed in France.
This is how the dark age begins… then comes the burning of the witches who do not conform.

As I said, we can’t say anything without him taking offense. It is why he comments, just to complain to us that we didn’t agree with his superior socialist wisdom. He even told us he would take offense, which is how it was so easy to predict.

Lee S asked: “Doesn’t your political system have checks and balances to ensure that one agency cannot sabotage another?”

The checks and balances are only between the three branches of government, and these checks and balances are designed to sabotage the efforts of the other branches of government so that one of them does not gain so much power that We the People lose our power over the government.

“And is there nothing further up the chain that can bang some heads together and get everyone pulling in the same direction?”

Further up the chain is Biden, and he has already gotten everyone pulling in the same direction.

Lee S,
You wrote: “I know you all have some distain for ‘the left’, and certainly your left is very different to my left, but I still smell a deeper influence than the Biden administration disliking Musk.”

No, that rat-like smell is Biden and his administration, and Biden is as deep as the influence gets. Your left seems just the same as ours. You being a good example, as I noted in my previous comment in this thread.
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John hare wrote: “The bureaucratic norm is not to approve the unusual.”

But it is not the unusual that is causing the delay. It is a sonic boom, which is not unusual, and it is a slightly expanded area of influence for an environmental impact report. The additional area is just the same as the already approved area. There is just more area. The birds are the same, the turtles are the same, the beach is the same, the road is the same, and the closures are no different. Yet somehow these government bureaucrats have to take their sweet time to make sure that … what? Nothing changed for them to make sure of.

“I suspect that Musk and company are working a bit deeper game than most here acknowledge with a goal of real reform as opposed to knee jerk accusations.”

I seem to recall that Robert has said on several occasions that he, Robert, thinks Musk is trying to reform the corrupted system that we have now. Or has my memory failed me again?
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Matt is correct. The powers and duties of the government are enumerated in Article I, section 8 of the Constitution. Hampering local commerce or the public is not among them. Come to think of it, development testing is not commerce. A rocket launch is not commerce with foreign Nations, among the several States, or with the Indian Tribes. Regulation is intended to provide fair treatment, not hindrance.

Article I.
SECTION. 8.
The Congress shall have Power [Dashed bullets mine]
— To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

— To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

— To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

— To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

— To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

— To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

— To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

— To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

— To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

— To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

— To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

— To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

— To provide and maintain a Navy;

— To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

— To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

— To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

— To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as
may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards and other needful Buildings;

-And
— To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Back in the mid 1990’s when the GPS system was very new the civilian signal was deliberately degraded by the Department of Defense so the position accuracy was a few tens of meters. At the same time the Coastguard (part of defense) was busy installing differential GPS stations at ports and harbors to get about one meter accuracy. A retired employee of Christians In Action told me at the time “Son, if you truly understood how our government worked, this would not surprise you”.
I doubt it works any differently in Sweden, Australia or anywhere else when you get down into the details.

The difference with Musk and the FAA is that the Biden administration and Democrats are deliberately spiteful towards those they see as thwarting them and care not one whit for the country or humanity.

https://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2024/10/08/exclusive-biden-harris-admin-has-held-israels-rifle-order-hostage-for-350-days/

Our checks and balance system is a mess.

Regulatory agencies like the FAA and ATF have a power beyond what congress actually gave them when formed. They can change their regulations and or definitions or words at will without congressional approval.

This to get them to change their actions a company or person must first prove they are the party being effected by the rule, then they must take the agency to court, and in most cases be willing to take it all the way to the Supreme Court. and in some cases this could take years.

For this FAA ruling against Space X this would mean Space X must prove they are being treated differently than other similar companies.

The faster resolution would be to get a private reporter to question the FAA administrator in public and get them to change their mind by public pressure. Or change the administration and force a change from the top down.

For those who think that Space X should just make a relaunch under the old flight profiles. Redo launch 4.
This accomplishes nothing and wastes launches doing the very same thing over and over.
Space X needs to bring the second stage down in American waters after several orbits and the first stage back to the launch tower.

They KNOW that if PRESIDENT TRUMP has a LEGITIMATELY DECIDED ELECTION then changes will be made and people will be exposed and sent to prison! This is LIFE or DEATH or IMPRISONMENT for LIFE for a great many so the mere grounding of a POLITICAL OPPONENT is a SMALL thing to them – a PETTY thing! If we are not successful it will get WORSE!

I do thank Mr. Zimmerman for his dedication to this site! Thank you sir!!

This goes back to FDR and Wilson before him, and a number of key Amendments to our Constitution, which enabled things to go off the rails.
US Senators were originally designed to represent their respective State, (The separate & sovereign States created the Federal Government.) and those Senators were appointed by the respective State Legislatures. If the Legislature of the State didn’t like what their Senator was doing, he got recalled.)
Changing the Constitution to direct election of Senators, breached one firewall. The House is directly elected, and now so is the Senate, and the individual States have little actual representation.
Our Constitutional prohibition against general taxes had to be breached with the Income Tax Amendment. Prior to that no general taxes could be levied upon the Citizens unless the taxes were apportioned by population, meaning each Citizen would pay the same amount.

1890’s we get the rise of the ‘progressive era,’ and fabian socialism; these people believe the socialist revolution will be voted-in progressively, by degree, over decades.

FDR creates literally a dozen “3 Letter Agencies,” in the 1930’s, to systematically control and regulate everything from the Federal level. Congress delegates authority to these Agencies, and they become little Fiefdoms of bureaucrats.

Considering these unregulated “regulatory bodies” have no right to exist as they stand, I’m not sure how there would be. These bodies are outside of the powers granted to the federal government and inherently strip rights away from the states where they rightly belong.

From schools to military procurement to medical costs, if one can’t find examples of financial abuse/corruption, one isn’t looking. Spaceflight happens to be the focus of most here which is why there is so much recrimination. Getting my house construction permit took over two years due to it being very non-standard for the area. The bureaucratic norm is not to approve the unusual. Accusations do more to increase resistance than to expedite results. I believe that 90%+ of the building and permitting departments could go away to the benefit of my county.. I know that yelling corruption and Democrat/Republican at the individuals involved creates heat without light.

Unless there is a realistic way to reform the building departments/military procurements/educational system/insurance fraud and hundreds of other issues, I will work with the systems available. I suspect that Musk and company are working a bit deeper game than most here acknowledge with a goal of real reform as opposed to knee jerk accusations.

It is customary, when making an argument against a particular conclusion with which you disagree, to offer an alternative explanation that equally well, or better, accords with the available facts and evidence. You have failed to do that here, other than expressing an inchoate feeling that it must, somehow, be a matter of money in play here and not simply politically-motivated abuse of power.

It seems, at a minimum, that you might provide at least a bit of potential detail anent this hazy hypothesis. What money are we talking about here? Who is it who wants to get paid? How does jamming up SpaceX advance their pecuniary interests? A simple, blanket rejection of any base motivation on the part of any government agency or any of its functionaries is certainly understandable on the part of someone with a long history of statist enthusiasms, but these hardly constitute a case anyone of a different political persuasion is bound to either respect or accept.

Some recent headlines:

• “SHOCK! Elon Musk Tells Tucker the Stunning Reason So Many Billionaires Support Kamala”
“You know I think part of why Kamala’s getting so much support is that if Trump wins that Epstein client list is going to become public. And some of those billionaires behind Kamala are terrified of that outcome (He names Reid Hoffman and Bill Gates) Between Diddy and Epstein there’s probably several thousand hours of footage. If Trump wins we can do some house cleaning and shed light on things.”

• “Supreme Court Declines Request From Elon Musk’s 𝕏 to Review Jack Smith’s Trump Account Warrant”

• “Musk Slams Gavin Gruesome Newsom During Tucker Interview, Calls Him ‘The Joker’ as Crime Remains Problem in Commiefornia”

• “Elon Musk Responds to Senator Mark Kelly and CNN’s Bashing Session and Attack on Him”

• “PAC Funded by Elon Musk Offers a $47 Bounty for Every Swing-State Voter Referred to Sign a Petition Embracing the 1st and 2nd Amendments”

• “Elon Musk makes his first appearance at a Trump rally and casts the election in dire terms”

There we go again… Talking straight over my head.. I am actually in the room. Enough said!

@ Bob…. Sorry… My spell checker has reprogrammed itself, and my own spelling is not the best.

@ Everyone…. I really don’t understand how one agency can hamstring another under the same government… Who is the next up the chain of your government? Musk is tasked with getting starship up and running, yet is having all these obstacles thrown in his way. I really can’t believe that it is simply down to a power play, and spite over his policies regarding Twitter/X. I know you all have some distain for ” the left” , and certainly your left is very different to my left, but I still smell a deeper influence than the Biden administration disliking Musk.

Doesn’t your political system have checks and balances to ensure that one agency cannot sabotage another? And is there nothing further up the chain that can bang some heads together and get everyone pulling in the same direction?

Richard M: So let me get this straight: NASA thinks SpaceX can launch safely, and thus the FAA decides it must make believe it agrees, but only for this one launch?

The whole game stinks of corruption beyond belief.

One small point of clarification, though:

The FAA further illustrated its bias against SpaceX when it decided to allow the company to do its launch this morning of Europe’s Hera asteroid mission, but specifically stated that the company’s other launches remain grounded.

Trip Harriss, SpaceX’s Spaceport integration director, clarified on Twitter this morning that NASA, not the FAA, licenses the Europa Clipper launch. Which surely means it’s got a green light.

https://x.com/SpaceXTrip/status/1843008398847312162

Unfortunately, NASA doesn’t license most of SpaceX’s other launches….

Wasn’t there a political party in Europe in the second quarter of the 20th century that did this same thing once it gained power in that country? We may want to learn from the past, as Santayana recommended, all those years ago.
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Lee S wrote: “When there is more to a story than what meets the eye, it usually boils down to money.”

It usually boils down to power. Money is only a more visible manifestation of power, a way to wield that power. The saying is that the love of money is the root of all evil, but the root of the money is the love of power. What good is the money if it does not come with the power to influence people and events? It may be the power to eat tonight or the power to found a colony on Mars. Both take money, in today’s civilized society.

“And please…. If you think I am wrong, explain why without insulting my intelligence, claiming I am neieve, or trying to belittle me… I enjoy a discussion, I don’t enjoy being spoken down to.”

Since Lee S considers someone disagreeing with him to be all three of these things, explaining why he is wrong cannot be done without him taking offense. Since he is set in his opinions and will not accept any reason why he is wrong makes explanation futile.

An additional piece of evidence that Robert did not mention was the second stage debris that fell in Oregon or Washington a few years ago. That second stage had a worse engine anomaly that resulted in debris falling close to inhabited areas, but the FAA did not require a grounding during any investigation, and I don’t remember them requiring an investigation. Then again, this happened before Musk announced any allegiances toward anything other than the Democrat Party, which he supported at the time. What changed between then and now? Musk’s publicly stated allegiances.

“I feel there is more to this story than just politics.” And: “I don’t claim to have any credible ideas of who, where or how….” [ellipsis in original]

For Lee S, feelings trump reason, logic, or intelligent thought. Leftists have plenty of the first but lack the following three. This is why his opinion completely lacks any evidence or even any believable ideas. All he has done is to contradict Robert’s conclusions that are based upon evidence, logic, and reasoning.

It is because Lee S feels, rather than thinks, that he feels as though he has been insulted, has been thought to be naive, or has been belittled. But it is mere disagreement, which the left often misinterprets as hatred (another feeling).

The left projects their own inability to be thoughtful onto the rest of us, feeling that we must also be creatures of emotion, thus they feel that our motivations cannot be logic but must also be emotional, such as hatred. If we feel different ideas than theirs, we must be hateful people to have the audacity to differ from them.

The right projects their own ability to think onto leftists, believing that if only we had that one more piece of information or logical connection between evidence, then we would finally convince leftists of reality. But these leftists are so far gone that they are now willing to live the fantasies that boys who feel like girls are in reality the girls they feel themselves to be, even if the boys only want to get into the girls’ locker room or beat the girls at their own sports. This, leftists feel, is equity.
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Steve Richter wrote: “What another approved flight [4 profile] does is boost the positive profile of Elon before the American and world public. Which is exactly what the democrat party wants to avoid.”

Actually, what it would do is make the American and world public wonder why SpaceX wasted its time, money, and resources repeating a successful test rather than proceeding to a test that they could learn something from. It may also give the false impression that flight 4 was a failure, not the success that it was. Why repeat it if it was a success? Kind of proves that Steve Richter also cannot accept reality, reason, or logic when it has been explained to him several times.

The desire to watch another rocket launch does not make that launch a good idea, otherwise SpaceX should just launch them as soon as they make them. Forget about retiring the obsolete assemblies, just launch them for the show. After all, it boosts the company’s positive profile.

https://nypost.com/2024/10/07/us-news/elon-musk-suggests-hell-be-thrown-in-prison-if-harris-beats-trump-if-he-loses-im-fed/

It is funny when your perspective is adjusted in extreme real-world terms, it has a clarifying effect on most people. Elon knows where his bread / business interests is buttered and possibly where his freedom lies.

Does anyone here think that if the Obama/ Biden / Harris / WEF / U.N. policy arch is allowed to continue that many of our freedoms may well become questionable? I do not.

Say the wrong thing, post the wrong thing, suggest the wrong thing, think the wrong thing, dare question the stated policy by the government.?

I know, it is much different in Sweden, for now.

“Hillary Clinton warns that allowing free speech on social media means ‘we lose control’ (nypost.com)”

John Kerry (D): First Amendment is a “Major Block” to controlling what the people see, say and hear: https://youtu.be/amJQoNilH1Q?si=oVuzdvehf5-Q_sni 3 min.

They have come so far, does anyone think they are going to willingly back off now? They must be metaphorically / politically vanquished. And if they are not, they will keep going until they have destroyed what is I.E. the Constitution.

That is their plain to see trajectory as per their rhetoric and their actions in the real-world..

Lee … This is about more than money. It is about self-righteousness. Elon’s opening-up of Twitter (now X) is offensive to the hive-mind bureaucrats, who believe that theirs is the One True Way and therefore should be the only message in the public square. They can no longer control the message through Twitter, because of him..

And the more someone like him (or Trump) succeeds in serving the American people, the more obvious it becomes that we do not need so much bureaucratic intervention by the elite/elite-adjacent, who have built their entire lives around becoming policy-makers and leverage government’s coercive force to impose their vision of the “common good”. (And yes, advance personally at the same time. Nice work if you can get it,)

Steve … they want Elon to COMPLY to their diktats. Much like the mask Karens with their “just one ask” on that subject. Like our host, why should he be coerced to comply with such petty minds, when his actions do not pose a clear/present/significant interference with the unalienable rights of others? The precedent of previous compliance would make it easier to control him – AND US – now and in the future – “what is so different now, from when Elon went along?”

If there is a flaw in the GEM 63 XL, the next explosion will not be one they can pretend away… the nature of the barely-contained violent explosion that is an SRB means that any small failure almost always escalates into a very bad day for everything else around it. They got lucky once, but it won’t happen that way again.

The only responsible course of action is a thorough inspection of every SRB motor, and that’s going to take a lot of careful specialized work.

Yes, the case is not strong that the FAA is out to get Elon. The FAA approved another flight 4 profile flight. Go ahead and say that does little to help SpaceX. What another approved flight does is boost the positive profile of Elon before the American and world public. Which is exactly what the democrat party wants to avoid. Kind of proves that the FAA is doing a poor job of doing the bidding of its political masters. Keep in mind the deep state is thing onto itself. The want a slice of the pie and are savvy enough to realize that SpaceX makes a lot of pies.

The Hussein/Biden/Harris Regime cannot stand Musk and President Trump. They both made money the old fashioned way…. They EARNED IT.

Ray Van Dune: I think your reasoning about the Space Force ultimate decision is right on the money. I also think it is certain that the Space Force will certify Vulcan. It is committed to this rocket, and must look the other way despite the idiocy of doing so.

Lee S: Others are explaining this as well as I. My only comment is to please ask you to please stop misspelling “naive.”

Wait until the winning side gets rid of the loosing barons so they could never oppose them again.

The progressive left would never have gotten this far without the financial support of those barons who want influence go gain more wealth.