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	<title>
	Comments on: SpaceX raises $500 million for Starship, twice the amount planned	</title>
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	<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/essays-and-commentaries/spacex-raises-500-million-for-starship-twice-the-amount-planned/</link>
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		<title>
		By: Edward		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/essays-and-commentaries/spacex-raises-500-million-for-starship-twice-the-amount-planned/#comment-1077460</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Edward]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2020 00:36:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=64149#comment-1077460</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[David Fenger, 

NanoRacks hopes to do just that, though not necessarily with a Starship.
https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/nanoracks-outlines-its-private-space-station-plans/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David Fenger, </p>
<p>NanoRacks hopes to do just that, though not necessarily with a Starship.<br />
<a href="https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/nanoracks-outlines-its-private-space-station-plans/" rel="ugc">https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/nanoracks-outlines-its-private-space-station-plans/</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: David Fenger		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/essays-and-commentaries/spacex-raises-500-million-for-starship-twice-the-amount-planned/#comment-1077416</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Fenger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2020 19:39:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=64149#comment-1077416</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Why take ISS back at all?  Let them have it if they want to get stroppy, the inclination&#039;s a pain to get to.

Send up a Starship with a toolkit and some rolls of lining material, leave it on orbit.  Punch some holes in the tank bulkheads, deploy liner (anti-meteorite and some radiation protection).  Now you have a space station with more internal volume than the ISS.  Add solar panels as needed.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why take ISS back at all?  Let them have it if they want to get stroppy, the inclination&#8217;s a pain to get to.</p>
<p>Send up a Starship with a toolkit and some rolls of lining material, leave it on orbit.  Punch some holes in the tank bulkheads, deploy liner (anti-meteorite and some radiation protection).  Now you have a space station with more internal volume than the ISS.  Add solar panels as needed.</p>
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		<title>
		By: sippin_bourbon		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/essays-and-commentaries/spacex-raises-500-million-for-starship-twice-the-amount-planned/#comment-1077406</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sippin_bourbon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2020 16:59:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=64149#comment-1077406</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Pzatchok,
Transfer of military forces via an orbital vehicle would be cost prohibitive at this point. Plus, there is added Risk. You cannot accomplish the mission if you do not get there. Once (if) it gets there, you have lost the asset, because the starship would sit until refueled. You would need to move the fuel and the fueling equipment to this site, which may or may not be secure. So probable one way trip, makes it more costly.

This, weighed against current Air Force mobility assets. Lower cost, proven, lower risk, plentiful, easier to train on and train for. 

It shift might happen eventually, but I don&#039;t think it will be with Starship. 

As for your thought experiment for the ISS. Put a hole through it. Then later patch it, recover an atmosphere and walk in the front door.  But this is an extreme hypothetical. And the important question: Why? The ISS is not a worth taking/holding in a shooting war. If we are shooting up there, what&#039;s happening down here?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pzatchok,<br />
Transfer of military forces via an orbital vehicle would be cost prohibitive at this point. Plus, there is added Risk. You cannot accomplish the mission if you do not get there. Once (if) it gets there, you have lost the asset, because the starship would sit until refueled. You would need to move the fuel and the fueling equipment to this site, which may or may not be secure. So probable one way trip, makes it more costly.</p>
<p>This, weighed against current Air Force mobility assets. Lower cost, proven, lower risk, plentiful, easier to train on and train for. </p>
<p>It shift might happen eventually, but I don&#8217;t think it will be with Starship. </p>
<p>As for your thought experiment for the ISS. Put a hole through it. Then later patch it, recover an atmosphere and walk in the front door.  But this is an extreme hypothetical. And the important question: Why? The ISS is not a worth taking/holding in a shooting war. If we are shooting up there, what&#8217;s happening down here?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mike Borgelt		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/essays-and-commentaries/spacex-raises-500-million-for-starship-twice-the-amount-planned/#comment-1077398</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Borgelt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2020 08:24:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=64149#comment-1077398</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Could a couple of Starships be coupled by a shaft from their noses while on orbit, rotated  and 1/6 and 1/3 gee be generated? A few months should provide some clues about the shape of the curve from zero to 1g.
My personal guess is that something of the order of &#062; 0.1 gee is likely OK. Just a WAG though.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could a couple of Starships be coupled by a shaft from their noses while on orbit, rotated  and 1/6 and 1/3 gee be generated? A few months should provide some clues about the shape of the curve from zero to 1g.<br />
My personal guess is that something of the order of &gt; 0.1 gee is likely OK. Just a WAG though.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mike Borgelt		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/essays-and-commentaries/spacex-raises-500-million-for-starship-twice-the-amount-planned/#comment-1077396</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Borgelt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2020 08:19:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=64149#comment-1077396</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Tim Kyger: Exactly. This should be a huge priority to find out. It is all guesswork at this time.
I&#039;m interested to know what evidence you have that 1/6 or 1/3 gee is no good. I&#039;m not sure the microgravity stuff is relevant.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim Kyger: Exactly. This should be a huge priority to find out. It is all guesswork at this time.<br />
I&#8217;m interested to know what evidence you have that 1/6 or 1/3 gee is no good. I&#8217;m not sure the microgravity stuff is relevant.</p>
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		<title>
		By: pzatchok		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/essays-and-commentaries/spacex-raises-500-million-for-starship-twice-the-amount-planned/#comment-1077395</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pzatchok]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2020 07:55:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=64149#comment-1077395</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I was thinking of them as more a cargo transport from one point on the planet to any other point on this planet.
Not actually fighting in space.

As for not having anything in space to fight for. 
What about other nations space stations? Instead of just punching them full of holes we could take them over intact and use them ourselves.
Or &quot;rescue&quot; the trapped men inside them.

As a thought exercise. How would you take back the ISS if Russia decided they didn&#039;t want any Americans on it anymore?
You would first need a ship capable of at least getting there.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was thinking of them as more a cargo transport from one point on the planet to any other point on this planet.<br />
Not actually fighting in space.</p>
<p>As for not having anything in space to fight for.<br />
What about other nations space stations? Instead of just punching them full of holes we could take them over intact and use them ourselves.<br />
Or &#8220;rescue&#8221; the trapped men inside them.</p>
<p>As a thought exercise. How would you take back the ISS if Russia decided they didn&#8217;t want any Americans on it anymore?<br />
You would first need a ship capable of at least getting there.</p>
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		<title>
		By: sippin_bourbon		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/essays-and-commentaries/spacex-raises-500-million-for-starship-twice-the-amount-planned/#comment-1077382</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sippin_bourbon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2020 23:15:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=64149#comment-1077382</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;Could Musk be angling for the Space Force contract for their first spaceships?&quot;

Is there any evidence at this point that USSF is even looking for such a thing?

Their current role is taking care of assets (surveillance, communications, logistical, etc) currently in orbit.
But I have not gotten the impression that deploying manned vessels is being considered.

Even if they were to start &quot;militarizing  space&quot; (yeah, I know, but that is a whole other conversation), I think they are looking at ground controlled assets, such as unmanned vehicles, or things that can be ordered and launched quickly (within weeks at this point). 

At this point there is no territory to hold in space. Why put a manned vessel in harms way, when they can use ASAT missle or laser systems, or kinetic kill-sats (smash em into each other), or EW (electronic warfare) to jam or fry circuits, or cyber warfare, and simply hack them. All this can be done from the ground. Everything they do is to make sure our assets are available to support actions/campaigns/theaters on the ground. And to inhibit the other guys from doing the same.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Could Musk be angling for the Space Force contract for their first spaceships?&#8221;</p>
<p>Is there any evidence at this point that USSF is even looking for such a thing?</p>
<p>Their current role is taking care of assets (surveillance, communications, logistical, etc) currently in orbit.<br />
But I have not gotten the impression that deploying manned vessels is being considered.</p>
<p>Even if they were to start &#8220;militarizing  space&#8221; (yeah, I know, but that is a whole other conversation), I think they are looking at ground controlled assets, such as unmanned vehicles, or things that can be ordered and launched quickly (within weeks at this point). </p>
<p>At this point there is no territory to hold in space. Why put a manned vessel in harms way, when they can use ASAT missle or laser systems, or kinetic kill-sats (smash em into each other), or EW (electronic warfare) to jam or fry circuits, or cyber warfare, and simply hack them. All this can be done from the ground. Everything they do is to make sure our assets are available to support actions/campaigns/theaters on the ground. And to inhibit the other guys from doing the same.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tim Kyger		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/essays-and-commentaries/spacex-raises-500-million-for-starship-twice-the-amount-planned/#comment-1077374</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim Kyger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2020 19:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=64149#comment-1077374</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Big question: Can humans live in 1/3 gee?  Current evidence would tend to say, no....but we DON&#039;T KNOW.  Period.

Big gamble being taken here....

(PS: Same goes for 1/6th gee too.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Big question: Can humans live in 1/3 gee?  Current evidence would tend to say, no&#8230;.but we DON&#8217;T KNOW.  Period.</p>
<p>Big gamble being taken here&#8230;.</p>
<p>(PS: Same goes for 1/6th gee too.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: pzatchok		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/essays-and-commentaries/spacex-raises-500-million-for-starship-twice-the-amount-planned/#comment-1077365</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pzatchok]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2020 16:46:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=64149#comment-1077365</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[How much cash would 1000 starships cost Musk?
Thats cash not available for making more money, investing. 

And he does essentially sell launchers. Every time he launches one with no return its basically sold. He just keeps launch control also. 

If the government wants them a deal will be made.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How much cash would 1000 starships cost Musk?<br />
Thats cash not available for making more money, investing. </p>
<p>And he does essentially sell launchers. Every time he launches one with no return its basically sold. He just keeps launch control also. </p>
<p>If the government wants them a deal will be made.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Trent Castanaveras		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/essays-and-commentaries/spacex-raises-500-million-for-starship-twice-the-amount-planned/#comment-1077360</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Trent Castanaveras]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2020 14:39:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=64149#comment-1077360</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[pzatchok said: &quot;He doesn’t need more than 10 for his satellite network. Who is buying all the rest?&quot;

The short answer is, &quot;No one.&quot; 

To build a self sustaining city on Mars will require 1 million tons + of material and a million people, by Musk&#039;s own estimates. The reality is likely beyond that, unless some of the first actions the colonists take are setting up mining and material refinement on an industrial scale.

Even at 1000 ships (Musk&#039;s current fleet goal) that would take many years to accomplish.

SpaceX will provide transport. They will not provide Starships for sale.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pzatchok said: &#8220;He doesn’t need more than 10 for his satellite network. Who is buying all the rest?&#8221;</p>
<p>The short answer is, &#8220;No one.&#8221; </p>
<p>To build a self sustaining city on Mars will require 1 million tons + of material and a million people, by Musk&#8217;s own estimates. The reality is likely beyond that, unless some of the first actions the colonists take are setting up mining and material refinement on an industrial scale.</p>
<p>Even at 1000 ships (Musk&#8217;s current fleet goal) that would take many years to accomplish.</p>
<p>SpaceX will provide transport. They will not provide Starships for sale.</p>
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		<title>
		By: wayne		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/essays-and-commentaries/spacex-raises-500-million-for-starship-twice-the-amount-planned/#comment-1077359</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[wayne]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2020 14:25:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=64149#comment-1077359</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;Save My Soul&quot;
Blues Saraceno
Theme from &#039;The Men Who Built America&#039;
https://youtu.be/lCnzCMBRO1o
3:20]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Save My Soul&#8221;<br />
Blues Saraceno<br />
Theme from &#8216;The Men Who Built America&#8217;<br />
<a href="https://youtu.be/lCnzCMBRO1o" rel="nofollow ugc">https://youtu.be/lCnzCMBRO1o</a><br />
3:20</p>
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		<title>
		By: wayne		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/essays-and-commentaries/spacex-raises-500-million-for-starship-twice-the-amount-planned/#comment-1077358</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[wayne]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2020 14:21:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=64149#comment-1077358</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mark--
You&#039;re confusing Musk with Frank Andrew Munsey (21 August 1854 – 22 December 1925) nominally the creator of the &quot;pulp magazines,&quot; Argosy/All Story being his flagship title.

from the snob who wrote his obituary...
&quot;Frank Munsey contributed to the journalism of his day the talent of a meat packer, the morals of a money changer and the manner of an undertaker.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark&#8211;<br />
You&#8217;re confusing Musk with Frank Andrew Munsey (21 August 1854 – 22 December 1925) nominally the creator of the &#8220;pulp magazines,&#8221; Argosy/All Story being his flagship title.</p>
<p>from the snob who wrote his obituary&#8230;<br />
&#8220;Frank Munsey contributed to the journalism of his day the talent of a meat packer, the morals of a money changer and the manner of an undertaker.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mark Matis		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/essays-and-commentaries/spacex-raises-500-million-for-starship-twice-the-amount-planned/#comment-1077357</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Matis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2020 12:39:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=64149#comment-1077357</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mr. Musk is the reincarnation of P.T. Barnum, but with more money and less ethics!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Musk is the reincarnation of P.T. Barnum, but with more money and less ethics!</p>
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		<title>
		By: pzatchok		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/essays-and-commentaries/spacex-raises-500-million-for-starship-twice-the-amount-planned/#comment-1077352</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pzatchok]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2020 07:43:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=64149#comment-1077352</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Could Musk be angling for the SpaceForce contract for their first spaceships?

With a running production line he would only need to reconfigure the interiors for military needs.
Some for personnel transport.
Some for cargo transport.
Some for refueling needs. They will need some fuel to get back to orbit. And of course for in orbit refueling.
Eventually some could be armed and armored for space combat. To an extent.
He could charge a billion dollars a copy and still come in way cheaper than anyone else. How much was the government charged per copy for the last fighter we bought?

He doesn&#039;t need more than 10 for his satellite network. Who is buying all the rest?

Boeing. Lockheed, no one could design test and set up a production line this fast to compete with Musk.
With this one contract he could end up buying out one of those old big guys and liquidate it off keeping all the patents.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could Musk be angling for the SpaceForce contract for their first spaceships?</p>
<p>With a running production line he would only need to reconfigure the interiors for military needs.<br />
Some for personnel transport.<br />
Some for cargo transport.<br />
Some for refueling needs. They will need some fuel to get back to orbit. And of course for in orbit refueling.<br />
Eventually some could be armed and armored for space combat. To an extent.<br />
He could charge a billion dollars a copy and still come in way cheaper than anyone else. How much was the government charged per copy for the last fighter we bought?</p>
<p>He doesn&#8217;t need more than 10 for his satellite network. Who is buying all the rest?</p>
<p>Boeing. Lockheed, no one could design test and set up a production line this fast to compete with Musk.<br />
With this one contract he could end up buying out one of those old big guys and liquidate it off keeping all the patents.</p>
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		<title>
		By: wayne		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/essays-and-commentaries/spacex-raises-500-million-for-starship-twice-the-amount-planned/#comment-1077349</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[wayne]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2020 06:48:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=64149#comment-1077349</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dick-
Good stuff.

Henry Kaiser 
&quot;Think Big&quot;
https://youtu.be/jIV4sWbUamU
4:57]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dick-<br />
Good stuff.</p>
<p>Henry Kaiser<br />
&#8220;Think Big&#8221;<br />
<a href="https://youtu.be/jIV4sWbUamU" rel="nofollow ugc">https://youtu.be/jIV4sWbUamU</a><br />
4:57</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dick Eagleson		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/essays-and-commentaries/spacex-raises-500-million-for-starship-twice-the-amount-planned/#comment-1077348</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dick Eagleson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2020 05:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=64149#comment-1077348</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I figured the money raised over the past year was going to mostly or entirely go to building Starlink with Starship being funded out of earnings from operations.  But if the opposite is true, that can only mean Musk is dead serious about his recent tweets and remarks anent making mass production capability for Starship &lt;i&gt;the&lt;/i&gt; near-term priority.  That explains both the rapid build-up in Boca Chica, including a doubling of the workforce there two weeks ago, and the sudden push to revive the San Pedro Starship factory project.  It probably also presages the announcement of a third assembly site for Starships by summer - assuming just doubling both the facilities and workforce at Boca Chica again isn&#039;t seen as the quickest way to get the needed additional production capacity on-line soonest.

Musk is a creature we saw many of in the 19th Century and the first half of the 20th - an &lt;i&gt;industrialist&lt;/i&gt; entrepreneur.  But they&#039;ve been few and far-between since WW2 and there have been more failures than successes.  We&#039;re now seeing something we haven&#039;t seen since Henry J. Kaiser started tooling up to build Liberty ships during WW2 - a flank speed push to begin genuine mass production of something really big.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I figured the money raised over the past year was going to mostly or entirely go to building Starlink with Starship being funded out of earnings from operations.  But if the opposite is true, that can only mean Musk is dead serious about his recent tweets and remarks anent making mass production capability for Starship <i>the</i> near-term priority.  That explains both the rapid build-up in Boca Chica, including a doubling of the workforce there two weeks ago, and the sudden push to revive the San Pedro Starship factory project.  It probably also presages the announcement of a third assembly site for Starships by summer &#8211; assuming just doubling both the facilities and workforce at Boca Chica again isn&#8217;t seen as the quickest way to get the needed additional production capacity on-line soonest.</p>
<p>Musk is a creature we saw many of in the 19th Century and the first half of the 20th &#8211; an <i>industrialist</i> entrepreneur.  But they&#8217;ve been few and far-between since WW2 and there have been more failures than successes.  We&#8217;re now seeing something we haven&#8217;t seen since Henry J. Kaiser started tooling up to build Liberty ships during WW2 &#8211; a flank speed push to begin genuine mass production of something really big.</p>
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		By: Edward		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/essays-and-commentaries/spacex-raises-500-million-for-starship-twice-the-amount-planned/#comment-1077340</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Edward]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2020 23:37:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=64149#comment-1077340</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I especially like the way the report in the last link phrases it: &quot;agile development.&quot;  SpaceX is not letting failures slow down development.  

Alternatively, SpaceX may have developed a new way of creating &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.tripsavvy.com/walt-disney-concert-hall-p2-4006903&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;modern art.&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I especially like the way the report in the last link phrases it: &#8220;agile development.&#8221;  SpaceX is not letting failures slow down development.  </p>
<p>Alternatively, SpaceX may have developed a new way of creating <a href="https://www.tripsavvy.com/walt-disney-concert-hall-p2-4006903" rel="nofollow ugc">modern art.</a></p>
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