I’ll keep that in mind if I ever fall into a time machine and find myself in Nazi occupied Poland. Thank you.

David: you nailed it.

Edward: you’ve got way too much time on your hands.

I was in horror from that day, too. However, we have learned much since then, such as evidence that was not made available to defendants. Recently we have seen the security videos that also were not available, and they show very different events than were described at the trials. We learned right away that the only person murdered that day was unarmed and murdered by the Capitol Police.

Many, most, or all of the defendants were railroaded into prison for things that they didn’t do.

This is the (in)justice system that we live in today.

The closed minds are the ones rejecting both the new evidence and the proof that these defendants were unfairly treated.

“Like Mr. Zimmerman’s insistence that somehow the 2020 and 2022 elections were at best circumspect and at worst were subject to widespread cheating regardless how much data is presented countering these fictions,.”

We watched in real time as votes switched from Trump to Biden. We heard the next morning that poll watchers were kicked out and voting continued. A couple of days later, security video showed the unsupervised counting, using ballots that had been hidden from the poll watchers. A year and a half after that, we saw video of Democrats literally stuffing unsupervised ballot boxes (resembling mail boxes in public places) in the middle of the night. These are not fictions.

On top of that, voting methods were unconstitutionally changed to methods that the New York Times had warned were sources for easy election fraud. TIME Magazine ran an article bragging about how it and the rest of the news media had rigged the election. This is published and historical fact.

And this does not include the many rumors from all over the country of other actions of election fraud. These could be fiction, but I don’t need them to make my point.

We know that cheating went on. We saw it, and the news media bragged of their part in it.

“Truth seems easily disposed of when Trump, MAGA, and/or others peddling these fictions find it inconvenient.”

It is the other way around. Truth was hidden from sight in order to support Democrats. We have been finding the truth since then, and Democrats have been denying its existence.

David also wrote: “Then again, maybe I’m wrong. Perhaps I can’t see the potential of my party, now led by a man with 91 felony counts, found liable by a jury for sexual assault (since N.Y. State considers what constitutes rape or assault a matter of how the violence was conducted).”

Too true. David is wrong, and he is myopic. He believes in guilt by accusation, and guilt by mere preponderance of evidence as seen by a stacked jury in an anti-Trump jurisdiction. Or is David merely trying to imply criminal guilt by presenting liability in a non-criminal civil case? How reasonable and thoughtful is that discussion?

“I thank you and all who present reasonably thoughtful discussions.”

I suspect that these thoughtful discussions are defined as those that agree with David, not those that disagree.
__________________________
I think I have suddenly and completely changed my mind. Doug is right.

So here is how it all went down:

Summer of 2020, the Summer of Love, or at least the Summer of Mostly Peaceful Protests, in which Democrats supported the mostly violent protestors, who were being arrested for their mostly peaceful behavior and released in order to perform more mostly violent protesting that the Democrat Party supported. Meanwhile, Trump supporters were entirely peaceful, patriotic, and lawful ever since he pissed off the entire Democratic Party by announcing a run for president in 2015, making Trump Democrat Enemy #1.

But, shortly after 2 PM on January 6, 2021, all that changed. Before 2 PM, the pre-speech, violent Democrat supporters (Trump supporters were still at his rally) broke into the Capitol Building, wreaking havoc for the Capitol Police.

Once Trump used the words “peacefully and patriotically,” everyone magically changed. The mostly violent Democrats were suddenly, totally, and always peaceful and lawful, disappearing forever from the Capitol Building, and the peaceful Trump supporters became insurrectionists, unarmed as they were. “Peacefully and patriotically,” was a dog whistle for Democrats to be good, peaceful, and obedient, but for Trump supporters it was a dog whistle to suddenly become completely riotous, treasonous, and murderous. That is why the Capitol Police needed to use these unarmed Trump supporters for target practice. “Peacefully and patriotically” was a dog whistle for the Capitol Police, also, to let insurrectionist Trump supporters walk right past them inside the Capitol Building, even giving guided tours to Trump supporters who were in active unarmed revolt, because they were such violent, treasonous, unarmed assassins. Yeah, that stuff never made any sense, but it must be true; the Democrats say so.

It was just like the Republicans and Democrats suddenly switching sides back in the 1960s. Democrats had been racist slaveholders, Jim Crow advocates, and KKK members right up until Lyndon Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act that Republicans had marched with blacks in order to get passed. The moment that signature dried was when Democrats suddenly and completely stopped being racists to become the saviors of those very same blacks that they had spent the previous centuries oppressing — even before the Democrat Party existed — and Republicans were just as suddenly and completely evil, racist, bigots who wanted to bring back slavery (which would benefit the Democrats, so how stupid are Republicans?), and for good measure, the Republicans also wanted to push granny off a cliff, because … I don’t know; Democrats came up with some cockamamie reason. Yeah, none of that ever made any sense, either, but the Democrats insist it is true.

Before you ridicule this idea of mass switching sides, compare this with sports, the number of times that entire teams have similarly suddenly switched sides. It happens in (American) football in every game, when the teams alternate their goalposts and territory. In baseball, one team is in the field, then suddenly they are running bases. So when entire masses of people suddenly switch from being peaceful patriots to being violent insurrectionists, it makes just as much sense as when people who support civil rights suddenly become the racists. Just like the moment in the game of chess, when the board is turned around and the white player becomes the black player and the black player becomes the white player. Or the time when the Israelis had a policy of exterminating all Palestinians but then the sides switched and now the Palestinians vow to push all Israelis into the sea.

Just as suddenly, with Doug’s excellent, lucid, convincing arguments, I now see things from the Democratic point of view, and it is completely right. Orange Man bad, senile man good. Climate deniers must be arrested and — preferably — executed, otherwise we all die in 2032 (and Arctic ice disappears in 2014, and say goodbye to snow, but more snowfall is proof positive of global warming, even though the next Ice Age will be here by the year 2000). Abortions must be mandatory for all people of uterus, no matter their gender or pronouns. Not only should the minimum wage be a million dollars an hour ($7.50 is good and $15 is better, therefore $1 million must be best) but government should give everyone $1,000 every month, whether or not they earn it. If Elon Musk gave every American a million dollars, he would still have almost $300 billion left over for himself. (How greedy is he for not being willing to share his vast wealth?) No one is above the law, but laws are not for Democrats like Hillary, Hunter, and me.

Wait. This doesn’t make any sense. None of it makes any sense, but it must be true. The Democrats say so.

Heads, this time.

Why the glaring overt inequity in law and justice? Obviously, Mr. E has some friends in high government places, and he was apparently, common sense would indicate, there to ensure a predetermined strategic agenda.

The term would be: AGENT PROVOCATEUR.

“An agent provocateur (French for ‘inciting agent’) is a person who commits, or who acts to entice another person to commit, an illegal or rash act or falsely implicates them in partaking in an illegal act, so as to ruin the reputation of, or entice legal action against, the target, or a group they belong to or are perceived to belong to. They may target any group, such as a peaceful protest or demonstration, a union, a political party or a company.”

To my eye a precise fit.

You cannot be as willfully naive as you present. And if you are then please endeavor to broaden your horizons and understanding, because to read your posts you are obviously a highly educated person.

But as we have all too painfully been made aware recently many times the higher your education is there seems to be a tendency to myopically intellectualize your reality and in doing so you become blind and a threat to all that you become in contact with.

An ally of the radical Left in other words.

” how many court cases were lost by Trump and fellow deluded candidates following the previous two elections,”

The answer to this question would be ZERO. No cases were heard in a court, they never got that far. So, your question is in a word fraudulent and in another word, dishonest and or uninformed. Choose one.

Why? Because there were no judges that would DARE hear them. There were plenty of indications that the 2020 election was manipulated. This story being just one among them: https://headlineusa.com/usps-confirm-ballots-ny-pa-2020/

David, do you know how many mechanisms that are and have been specifically designed and installed by the Democrats and anyone else in government who does not want the full spectrum of the American people to express their political desires?

From: No I.D. voting, Democrats insist on that, ballot harvesting, voting by mail, the most corrupt manner of voting, they propose that illegals be able to vote and the list goes on.

People like you, and there are plenty of them, are at the minimum naive, unconscious and unaware of the extent that those who seek political power will go in order to prevail.

Read and be informed as to your political deficits: https://www.sigma3ioc.com/post/what-is-really-going-on-strategy-over-morality

People like you, and there are plenty of them, is what scares the hell out of me.

As memory serves me, when I used to try to be more polite, Zimmerman drew a despicable image of me and a polite guard at a Nazi camp telling those being led to their death to have a nice day.

That said alot. I don’t visit here much anymore, but as I always have here, I thank you and all who present reasonably thoughtful discussions.

Like Mr. Zimmerman’s insistence that somehow the 2020 and 2022 elections were at best circumspect and at worst were subject to widespread cheating regardless how much data is presented countering these fictions, how many court cases were lost by Trump and fellow deluded candidates following the previous two elections, how many conspiracy tales are proven to be false, it doesn’t seem to matter.

Truth seems easily disposed of when Trump, MAGA, and/or others peddling these fictions find it inconvenient.

Then again, maybe I’m wrong. Perhaps I can’t see the potential of my party, now led by a man with 91 felony counts, found liable by a jury for sexual assault (since N.Y. State considers what constitutes rape or assault a matter of how the violence was conducted).

“An explosive report from Fox News has revealed the Trump-hating J6 Committee secretly deleted over 100 potentially critical pieces of evidence right before the GOP was set to take over the House of Representatives after their narrow 2022 win.”

Adel asks: https://youtu.be/be12BC5pQLE?si=vSvTmtWseKY3O3Ad

“As far as I am concerned, these rioters are not supporters of Trump. Their techniques, behavior, and approach all scream Antifa, in every way, dressed up to look like Trump supporters.”

And Ray Epps, and many others clearly appear to validate this rational position. Ray Epps given his activity before and during the riot should have gotten 4 or 5 years on Federal sponsored vacation if all things were equal.

But he was not sentenced accordingly.

Ray Epps did similar and worse IMO, but he got PROBATION! A clear example of the two levels of political DOJ law and justice.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fla-man-sentenced-to-5-years-after-attacking-6-officers-on-jan-6/ar-AA1n93rG

Why is this not visible to you and many others?

AND, again, I ask, “Who gave the order to push the magnetic door locks and open the doors, and who pushed it?”

Agent provocateurs, ANTIFA, BLM and a bunch of dopey MAGA morons.

Clearly a false government / Congressional leadership set up operation.

These are not the Marqueese of Queensbury rules, this is Strategy OVER Morality, political warfare and winning at all costs:

https://www.sigma3ioc.com/post/what-is-really-going-on-strategy-over-morality

Reality is a stone-cold bitch, the question remains. Are you able to face it?

Just checking….

What was your reasoning behind the catty remarks aimed at someone’s website. Are you 12?

Douglas M Messier: You would make a great villager living near Auschwitz in the 1940s.

Did the Capitol police instigate violence by firing on peaceful January 6th demonstrators?
https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/did-the-capitol-police-instigate-violence-by-firing-on-peaceful-january-6th-demonstrators/

“Thus, the violence, set off by the police, had nothing to do with anything Trump said.”

These rioters in the Capitol are not Trump protesters
https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/these-rioters-in-the-capitol-are-not-trump-protesters/

These rioters in the Capitol are not Trump protesters

“As far as I am concerned, these rioters are not supporters of Trump. Their techniques, behavior, and approach all scream Antifa, in every way, dressed up to look like Trump supporters.”

And anyone who rushed the Capital building no matter how upset they were and broke into or walked into the building after SOMEONE ON THE POLICE FORCE THAT CONTROLLED THE MASSIVE MAGNETIC DOOR LOCKS PUSHED THE BUTTON TO OPEN THEM while Congress was in session should not have done that and there are legal prices to pay for doing so.

They did great harm to the Conservative movement, and they became the witless pawns of the Luciferian Speaker at the Time, Nancy Pelosi who’s own daughter was hired to document it all on video. You gotta give the devil her due. We wait to see what she and they will do in 2024 and 2025 if Trump prevails.

Anything up to and including………………………………..you fill in the blank.

However, one main “insurrectionist” and very animated player who was clearly seen rabble rousing and giving directions specifically to “Go into the Capital”, who was on the FBI’s most wanted list for a total of 5 minutes and then mysteriously was removed has FINALLY be brought to justice:

Ray Epps given probation: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67918709

And if you remember there are very clear videos of Mr. Epps doing his 2 day rabble rousing and even video of him pushing the police with a giant sign and pushing them with a barricade as he rushed them. AND HE RECEIVED 1 YEAR PROBATION.

Do you find that curious D. Messier?

Because I certainly do.

Let us not be naive.

D. Messier, are you paying attention yet?

D. Messier: You are once again illustrating your close-minded leftist partisan approach to anything political. Nowhere have I denied that an assault on the Capitol took place. Those who did so should be prosecuted for sure. I have never disputed that. In fact, I will welcome any prosecution of anyone who acted violently that day, damaging property or hurting others.

All I have noted is the persecution by the Biden administration against numerous others who did nothing wrong, and had nothing to do with that violence. I documented a half dozen examples, which only are only a small sampling. You of course ignore this injustice. To admit it has occurred would be to admit that there has been wrongful action by Joe Biden, some Democrats, and the Department of Justice run by Democrats. To make that admission is unforgiveable (the Democrats can never be wrong!), and so you turn a blind eye to it.

The whole point of my essay was to note this exact blind certainty by too many Democrats, such as yourself, and where such things lead. Your inability to express any horror at the evils that the Biden administration has subjected some innocent people to tells us that you have become so blindly partisan and certain of your conclusions you will also turn a blind eye to genocide. And in fact, your many comments here prove it.

There was a violent assault on the Capitol and our democracy three years ago. I could show you and Bob 100 videos showing the violence, but you guys would attack the source and point to some other video from that day that doesn’t show any violence and declare the whole thing to be peaceful. It wasn’t.

You made an outright denial when you wrote: “Gee Edward. It doesn’t look like they were invited into the Capitol to me.”

You wrote earlier: “It’s easy to cherry pick what you want to see that fits your opinion.”

Ironically, you wrote this sentence right after you presented a cherry picked video that shows what you wanted to see, that fit your opinion. Did you not realize that at the time? Cherry picking is your tactic. You accused me of doing it. You projected your own problem onto me.

Is your rule for our debates that you are always right even when you cherry pick and I am always wrong no matter what? That is not a good rule. Heads you win tails I lose. It allows you to deny things you said that are recorded in your previous comments in this same thread, as though you really are right. It seems a bit lawless on your part, and since you are defending the left, you prove Robert’s point, the point that you think it’s not really on.

In addition, you changed the topic of our debate away from the lawless unfairness of the treatment of the people to some trivial topic of cherry picking, trying to disprove facts through implication, replacing them with dogma. To cherry pick a fact means that the fact exists, but to imply its nonexistence is another form of your “heads you win tails I lose” tactic.

Facts are stubborn things. Try to deal with them. Try arguing fairly and honestly. Otherwise these debates aren’t worth having.

I didn’t mention Parabolic Arc, but thank you, anyway, for telling me about having sold it. So, not really on point. I hope your endeavors in the past two years have done well for you.

I watched the attack live as it happened. You can attack the Congressional committee all you want. Shoot the messenger. Standard operating BS. The fact that there are periods inside where it’s not violent doesn’t negate the violence outside when they attacked police and over ran the barricades and broke into the Capitol. Nor does it excuse violence the Trump supporters perpetrated inside the Capitol. The situation is complex? It’s pretty simple.

Your post is a long rant about lawless Democrats for a protest at the White House where protesters never got near the building. It was a Republican president who sent an armed mob to the Capitol that wanted to hang the Vice President in an attempted coup to stay in power.

Ed:

> So, you project your tactics onto me, which negates your claim that you don’t think there were invitees.

Not really on point. No denial. Nothing.

I don’t own Parabolic Arc anymore. I sold it two years ago and am no longer working for the present owner. What they do with it is up to them.

A riot that was engineered to tag Trump with the “Insurrectionist” label and they would use that as their political cudgel going into the future.

Give Lucifer her due.

And in the end, what has it accomplished with their 91 indictments and lawfare offence in the several courts around the country?

Trump looks like he will be reelected by numbers never seen before in American history. Well done!

I suggested several years ago that the Democrat party would do better to just sit it out and allow Trump to bloviate his way through his presidency. But they could not help themselves. Trump threw a monkey wrench in their delivering the “rightful” crowning of the next and first female president into office.

And what do we see after all of this time? The democrats are at their wits end and are so desperate we are all anticipating that they or their deep state operators will do who knows what to stop him once again.

Stand by on that.

https://www.sigma3ioc.com/post/why-lawfare-it-is-all-they-have-got

So, you project your tactics onto me, which negates your claim that you don’t think there were invitees.

*Sigh*

D. Messier: The video you linked to is the carefully edited garbage issued by the illegal Democratic Party January 6th committee, which allowed no cross-examination and forbid Republicans to choose their own representatives to participate. It is absurd. At one point it shows outside footage of people smashing a Capitol window to break into the building, then cuts immediately to footage inside of people quietly walking into the building (in which the full footage — not included — shows guards opening the doors for them).

Maybe you should watch some other footage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Opy7MLGAPBk

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=video+January+6+johnson&iar=videos&iax=videos&ia=videos

The situation on January 6 was complex. Some people obviously broke the law and should be prosecuted. Others however who have been persecuted by the Justice Department have not deserved such treatment. Some examples, two of which ended up as suicides:

Innocent man sentenced one-year in prison for appearing as George Washington in the Capitol on January 6

Doctor jailed for entering Capitol on Jan 6 and expressing opinions

FBI drops trumped up charges that caused January 6th protester to commit suicide

Related: Jan 6th tapes prove Biden prosecutors knowingly falsified the charges that caused Matthew Perna to kill himself

A man’s life destroyed because he visited the Capitol on January 6th

January 6th rally attendee commits suicide

Most of these people simply entered the building when it was opened, walked around (behind the velvet ropes), and then left. Yet they have been prosecuted to absurd lengths.

Your blind Democrat partisanship does you no good. I notice that your website, which has been inactive now for months, is now down. It appears people are not interested in your close-minded analysis.

They attacked the Capitol, threatened to hang Mike Pence. But when it’s time to take responsibilty and accept consequences, they run away and claim viictimhood. No backbone, no accountability.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3_O91gyj9o

It’s easy to cherry pick what you want to see that fits your opinion. It’s easy to reach a conclusion and then work backward and the fit the evidence to match it.

Reality is more difficult. Facts are stubborn things. Try to deal with them. Otherwise these debates aren’t worth having.

Really, Doug? Because not only were people who the Capitol Police invited into the Capitol building on January 6th — invitees literally waved into the building — arrested, tried, and convicted, at least one person who wasn’t even there, not even in the District, was also arrested, tried, convicted, and tossed in prison.

When peaceful Republican-supporting invitees are treated like hard-core violent felonious treasonous insurrectionists yet violent Democrat-supporters are free to go about their violent lives, it sure looks to me like a double standard and corruption. It does not matter jurisdiction, violence has once again been done with impunity. If there was fear that the crowd may reach the White House, this is no ordinary protest.

Both groups resulted in evacuations, but the unarmed, peaceful, January 6th group was invited inside, only for the Capitol Police to use them for target practice.
____________________
Robert,
Please let us know the day after their actual walkout. We should take note as to how bad life is in America without the federal government’s bureaucracy screwing us over.

If there is a need to evacuate WH employees to preserve their safety; I must assume that legitimate force from Law Enforcement is the measured response. And yet there are no consequences.

This is just the warm up to November.