“Although older generations are traditionally considered more conservative, scientists at Kaunas University of Technology (KTU) have proved that this is not always the case. One surprising outcome of their study was that, over the last decade, the young generation of Lithuanians has grown to value safety, stability, and tradition more than risk-taking or openness to change.”

The sliming of folks like Kirk continues.

Strike at Kirk from the shadows—so brave (slow clap).

“Just remember this, Mr. Potter: that this rabble you’re talking about, they do most of the Working and Paying and Living and Dying in this community.”
George Bailey
It’s A Wonderful Life (1946)

Proving your “side” wrong is not the end.

Inviting you to join us to see things generally as we do is the end.
We – the “right” still have our axes to grind, but in the end we want general harmony – not the victors and the vanquished. The only ones we want to be stopped are those who would do violence.

https://youtube.com/shorts/lDm3F3G0nHs?si=FhJxAESme8z94TnA

Where is the confusion?

Participating in self-serving mental masturbation again?

“I like to stick my nose in to point out that it is possible to be an intelligent, reasonable, older lefty. “.

You may be older but you have not learned anything other than what serves you, and that is fine. But the larger bigger picture implications are dire!

However, they do not seek out information about the right, because they are taught to avoid personal research. You, Lee, are one of the few who is willing to interact rather than avoid. Thank you for that. You seem to have been raised right, at least.

“I understand when I post I am singing to the wrong choir…”

It isn’t the wrong choir, but you aren’t singing anything new. You rarely present any new information that we have not yet seen, considered, critically thought about, and formed a judgement upon. This is the result of we, here at BTB, being immersed in a leftist-controlled society and culture.

“And I ALWAYS get accused of being unable/unwilling to take on any of what has been spoken at me….”

You have proved this point over and over again. Coming to the realization that you were wrong about American abortion law does not count. It is your overall opinion that does not change. Even about abortion it did not change. The worst part is that you still think you know more about us than you do, despite all the words we have written that go against what you have said about us.

You have done a poor job of proving you are able or willing to take on any of what we have said to you (your thinking that we speak at you rather then to you suggests that you are not listening, proving our point). You recently told us that you do not spend time responding to what has been spoken to you, so we have no inkling of why you have come to your own conclusions, why you have judged we are wrong, or even that you have considered our viewpoint. We respond to you, giving the rest of us the knowledge of why we individually have come to our own conclusions.

“Which is a shame, because ( to round back to the subject of this thread ), it closes down conversation.”

I don’t know about that. So far the conversation has not been closed down. It has gone on for four days and seventy comments. Seventy-one, now. And that does not count the several other threads on this and similar topics.

By the way, how many Charlie Kirk videos have you watched, Lee (order of magnitude is OK)? I haven’t counted, either, but my number is in the hundreds.

“And how many people on the right even want to see and learn about the other side?”

We can all very clearly see what the extreme segment of the Leftists, Liberals, “progressives”, Globalists are and what they intend. We can clearly see them. What DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND!?

Let’s look at some of the news perspectives regarding the Charlie Kirk political assassination:

American MSM Leftist media: “We don’t know if this was a gun shot off by a supporter in celebration”: https://youtu.be/aZdFUO8yNng?si=6Excc1njAh0yUl7c

The takeaway? The Charlie Kirk assassination was a justifiable assassination, there words sanctioned and supported it.

BBC commentary on Charlie Kirk: https://youtube.com/shorts/tMG20lyUGpg?si=p56IX-Czk2J-lhrw

Charlie Kirk, who was a Conservative Christian person was assassinated because he was well thought out, well-spoken and he competently communicated HIS PERSPECTIVE.

Can you explain their perspective? Other than their essentially sanctioning the killing, the murder that is. Charlie Kirk was a Christian and he represented an existential threat to the Lefts soulless, dark “Destroy the white Patriarchy” authoritarian agenda.

Their perspective is clear and well understood.

There is no confusion, no misunderstanding.

No offence intended, but this blog is a perfect example of preaching to the choir…. 90+% of the posters here are older right wing men. I like to stick my nose in to point out that it is possible to be an intelligent, reasonable, older lefty. I generally end up having a lecture explaining to me how and why I am wrong. Usually by older right wing man who have never experienced anything other than the good ‘ol US of A, to adjust your quote….

“And how many people on the right even want to see and learn about the other side?”

I understand when I post I am singing to the wrong choir… And I ALWAYS get accused of being unable/unwilling to take on any of what has been spoken at me…. Which is a shame, because ( to round back to the subject of this thread ), it closes down conversation.

As I stated earlier, I literally cannot hold focus long enough to plow thru and answer every point in a paragraphs long post… Hit me with concise questions/points and I’m all in for a discussion. In the meantime, check out a few other news sources, diversify where you get your information, and have a peaceful evening.

Many thought that the free expression and free access to all sides and opinions would be a good thing. And it is. But.
Along came the curated videos and web sites. A small program (algorithm) hunts down the subjects your like or most click on and view.
Now without even thinking about it your daily internet experience is selected for you automatically. Your only shown what you like, what you agree with and now your whole world is basically a fishbowl of agreement. You never see the other side unless you actively look for it.
And how many people on the left even want to see and learn about the other side?

I am 60. I have heard all the arguments.
The left is all about “feels” (female)and the right tries to be more logical(male).

Quote “In Sweden, abortion is permitted on request until the 18th week of pregnancy. After the 18th week, a late-term abortion is only possible with permission from the National Board of Health and Welfare’s Legal Council (Socialstyrelsen). This permission is granted only for exceptional reasons, such as severe fetal abnormalities or serious risks to the woman’s life or health. Abortions are generally not allowed after the 22nd week because the fetus is usually considered viable. ”

It is no wonder the issue is so controversial over there. 3rd trimester abortion should not be allowed except under exceptional circumstances . I certainly don’t believe abortion should be blanket banned, but restrictions need to be in place…

I am actually stunned,…. Consider my words eaten.

“Earlier, the FBI boss had told Sen. Josh Hawley (R-Mo.) that “a lot more” than 20 people were on the Discord channel

“I see the public reports that the Discord thread had as many as 20 additional users,” Hawley pressed.

“It’s a lot more than that,” Patel answered. “We’re running them all down.”

https://nypost.com/2025/09/15/us-news/trump-live-updates-news-sept-15-16/

The only way to possibly establish a conversation and change the minds of some of the young is that they see actual evidence and real consequences for actions or in actions taken regarding the blatant cold-blooded murder of Charlie Kirk.

One side MUST prevail.

And the biggest unknown at this particular time in human history regarding such things that were settled in time in accepted regular ways?

High technology, social media and AI.

These are the unknown unknowns at this particular time in human history.

50 and 60 years of slow and steady Leftist anti American, anti-Western culture and society indoctrination with the addition of this level of technology and communication is paradigm and civilization shifting territory.

IMO anyway.

Anyone in a chat room that knew (?) about the plot to take out CK will have to be arrested and prosecuted (?).

This evidence and motivation string I think will be long and complex when followed.

“They killed the last guy willing to talk to them. They killed the negotiator.”

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1079467/abortion-support-party-level-legalization-us/

I do not know, nor do I care, where others on this site stand on the issue. But support of abortion in general is dehumanizing. The far left (more radical than the Democrats) not only embrace abortion, but celebrate it.

It is only a small step from dehumanizing act to justifying the murder of a man you disagree with politically. Label him a few bad things and it is easy. And that is what the far left is doing, right now, as we type. Rationalizing and justifying murder. They are posting names.of other people they want to see murdered, including his widow.

This is what the American left has wrought.

The assassin made the mistake of bringing a gun to a Christopher Hitchens fight.

The assassin could have used the double barrel shotgun of Penn & Teller.

Had I access to a time machine, I would suggest to Charlie that maybe we could bring back James Randi and Charles Krauthammer, and sit this one out.

Perhaps more dangerous than the bullet that felled Charlie is the forthcoming book on the history of atheism called THE DOWNFALL OF GOD, by S. T. Joshi.

But here is where it really gets creepy.

The mob that bayed for Kirk’s blood?

They hate Joshi too–he dared defend HPL’ s contribution to the Weird Tale.

They hated Hitchens and Krauthammer alike.
They hated skeptic magicians P&T and Randi over debunking New Age crystal nonsense.

That is the level of nuttery we are facing.

As for the abortion points.
New Jersey allows abortion on viable babies up until the day before a normal birth could occur.They even allow non physicians to do early abortions.
The democrat party in the US wants the same for the whole of the nation.
They make no distinction between viable and non viable.

https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/new-jersey/2021/10/13/nj-expands-abortion-access-roe-v-wade/8440203002/

To the left an abortion is the blood sacrifice of the neo feminists.

And who empowered Hitler with their votes? The young idealistic people in Germany.

BIG picture? This is what is going on:

https://www.sigma3ioc.com/post/an-open-society-invites-communist-infiltration

BIG picture this is all about subversion and world dominance and if America becomes usurped by the Globalist / Socialist / “progressive” / CCP model?

Then you will be correct, irrelevance in individual freedom will be a thing of the past and the AI algorithm and whomever builds and controls it will rule the planet earth.

And that point is probably closer than anyone in the Pedestrian Realm thinks.

I do actually understand the danger from our more socialist society over here… But also see the danger from your 2 party system over there… The wheels seem to be falling off everywhere!

Fortunately we have this system known as democracy.. We must have faith that the truth will out and the people will cast their ballots for the best… ( I know that didn’t end well in 1930’s Germany… But let’s hope we have learned a little since then! )

We live in a new world now, social media broadcasts within seconds, and the youngsters are more plugged in than we ever were at their age. My son told me about the murder of Charlie Kirk before I had even heard of him. ( My son is further right than I am… His choice, and it makes for good discussion, we disagree, but are still best friends)

Unfortunately, we are rapidly becoming irrelevant… In a couple of decades we will be gone… It’s down to us to teach critical thinking skills to the youth, and instill the importance of using their vote for the best for everyone. Time stands still for no one!

Not for one second.

By reading what you have posted here over time I believe you are truly a caring person and a good father, 100%.

Unless you are one hell of a troller like has never been seen before, and I doubt that.

I believe you fully believe what you promote that you believe.

That perspective however is a bit narrow and idealistic as are most Liberals and their perspectives start out.

Unfortunately, that idealism over time must turn into authoritarian rule and force. No way around it there exists nothing in the system that you exist (The EU) to stop it.

And your inability to step back and see that very real and omnipresent potential immersed within your narrow perspective comes through in your communications.

Do I think you are hateful? No, I believe you have the best intentions, and we all or should all understand and know where that can and in time will deliver us all.

Drop me a line should you fancy a Stockholm break…. I will look after you and yours… And show you the real Scandinavia!!

( The same offer goes out to any of the posters here… Even those that believe I hate them! )

First come, first served!

loonyman99@gmail.com

I am a lot more focused face to face… As I said previously, I struggle a little in this format.. over a beer looking out on the beautiful waters of Stockholm… Bring it on!

And for all the negative comments I am receiving, all I can say is please read my previous comments … I just want to remind everyone that not all on the left are evil, that I absolutely condemn the use of violence for any reason, and stand for freedom of speech, and the right for free and open discussion without fear of harm. If these are not opinions we can all get behind, I don’t know what are.

To control a country and society you need to control four things: Politics, Law, Media and Academia

To remember this I rearranged this into P A L M – you hold the country/society in the palm of your hand if you control these four.
Politics – This is the most direct control. With Politics you can control the direction of government, the funding of programs and the formation of laws …etc.
Academia – Controlling this is the long term plan. Indoctrinate the young, feed them with the promise of “equality and justice” and watch them grow into the leaders of tomorrow.
Law – We see this on a regular basis from the Left; if you lose the election, or the “wrong” policy is enacted don’t accept this result – file suit, multiple suits. You can end, block or delay the actions of … anybody.
Media – Here you determine what is perceived or even known at all.

Recent events have shown that as the MAGA movement works to finally break the ever tightening grip that the Left has on any of these aspects on the control of society, the result is first, howls of fascism, NAZI and so on, then, if these don’t work, there are calls for violence, and now outright murder.

The comment that jumped out at me was “How can you argue your own points when you obviously hate the people who argue with you.”….. I find this to be both insulting and just plain wrong. There are very, very few people I hate, and I can assure you non of them are to be found here!

I find it challenging to have a serious debate in this format… I make a point, then next time I check in I have 20 points to discuss… I can’t do it. Face to face I could prove that it is quite possible to be a leftist, socialist even, and be reasonable… On this forum, I would hope that after all these years my moderate kind of socialism would have become self evident. I have never once advocated violence, and always made my advocacy for free speech known. Not all of us on the left are evil.

( The whole “8 month abortion” nonsense is just that by the way…. Unless the unborn is clinically dead there is no way this would ever happen. Check your facts before posting bull you have picked up from obviously false sources… I am pro choice, and will no doubt get crap for this… But I am a lefty after all. )

Making media responsible, judges and terror groups liable and elective officials responsive are key components to tackling this problem here and in Europe.

Back-n-forth begins around the 20:00 mark.

At the moment it appears that they already have, with New York’s Governor Hochul endorsing a Muslim Fidel Castro for the top slot in NYC. https://www.aol.com/news/york-gov-kathy-hochul-endorses-234129187.html

The Democrats, apparently, think that Mr. Mamdami is the New JFK for the New (Socialist) Age, and they will now be putting all their resources behind him. And, as the likely victor in the upcoming mayoral contest — New Yorkers LOVE that Socialist Kool-Aid; visualize the I-heart bumper sticker — he will have a powerful platform from which to preach communist revolution in America.

Jester Naybor’s essay on the real divide in American life is entirely on point — thank you for reposting it — and it comports with some similar remarks by James Howard Kunstler this morning. https://www.kunstler.com/p/dressed-to-kill

As Jim observes:

“The band-aid for that failure [to advance the cause of most black Americans] was multiculturalism. By the 1980s, the consensus about reality was fracturing, especially about standards of behavior. Too many ‘people of color’ were ‘justice involved’ — they committed crimes. It was an embarrassment to ‘progressives’ (liberal Democrats). Multiculturalism’s premise was that a society could have different standards of behavior and different values for different groups. Henceforth, there was no need for a broad agreement about what sort of behavior was okay and what was not okay — no need for a common culture that applied to everyone.”

Job One for the radical Democrats has been to *utterly destroy* every vestige of America’s common, reality-based “can do” culture, and as Jester Nabor suggests, to substitute a top-down, one size fits all authoritarian nightmare in its place:

“THE PROBLEM BEHIND THE PROBLEMS is that we have learned to short-sell ourselves – in particular, our ability to discern the facts-on-the-ground around us, to leverage the insights of our own experience and common sense with knowledge outside ourselves to attain a thorough understanding of the problems we face … and take the initiative to implement solutions, for ourselves and/or our neighbors that do not cause more problems than they solve.

Instead we look to those that we have come to believe Know Better to set the answers before us, and worse yet, ‘outsource’ our authority to make binding decisions to them … even at the expense of maintaining our ability to protect ourselves and/or efficiently work around decisions that end up in failure.

And do so, when those we are putting such trust in are operating from a position of inadequate knowledge of what we as individuals may or may not need – no matter any good intentions they may (or may not) have.”

Freedom versus slavery (with free stuff), and two very different visions of how societies should work and how human beings ought to live. Take your pick.

https://thenayborhood.substack.com/p/cutting-to-the-chase

(And Lee, you might find it interesting as well, as it identifies the fundamental divide in our nation; the “problem behind the problems” that feeds into all the conflicts – and also shows the reasons why I and others challenge your socio-economic views here.)

We know how we ended up this way, and I have explained it to you, but you do not pay attention. You have said that we all should listen to several sources and then come to our conclusions, but after you have listened to us, you have not taken our information into consideration. You have dismissed it because it fails to fit your view of the world.

But then, we have long said that you would not change your mind. How predictable you are. Look in the mirror? We have, but you won’t even look through the window at the reality that we keep presenting to you, even though you call yourself “an outsider looking in.” Why? Well, you told Cotour that you are too lazy to follow your own guidelines of viewing the other side. You are too lazy to pay attention to the other side’s opinions, viewpoints, conclusions, and reasoning for those conclusions. But go on ahead and comment here with your faux authority on these subjects, because you feel that you don’t need to see the other side of the the arguments or news reports.

And you still feel that disagreement is hatred. How can you argue your own points when you obviously hate the people who argue with you. You say you don’t, you try to make us think that we are the haters, but you are clearly projecting your own hate onto others, otherwise you would not feel the need to spontaneously say that you are not a hater.

You say that there are fires burning over here, but I don’t think that candles for the dead count. (Thank you, James Street, for the video.)

“Hate is rampant, discussion is almost impossible….”

We are having a reasonable discussion, so why do you think it is almost impossible? We don’t have hate coming from the right, even though one of our beloved leaders was just assassinated. We on the right know how to handle our emotions, you on the left have great difficulty, and then you project your emotions onto us. Instead of violence and burning cities, we have candlelight vigils.

The confirmation bias is going on in your own head. We do not have a right-wing media, in America, so they are not confirming any of our biases. Your crap always float to the top. Robert has given you evidence that the vast majority of Democratic leaning folks do have murderous intent — outside of the abortion issue — but you deny it because it does not fit into your own biases. Lee, we see right through you. It is why so many are able to respond to your floaters.

In America, the leftists are the ones with the loudest and most violent voices. When someone they don’t know or care about dies of an overdose a few minutes after he is in police custody, the left spends a summer in violent protest all over the country. They do all that violence because they hate. They don’t care about the excuse, it is the hateful riot that matters in their minds. The hate in the Democrats’ hearts is spoken by them all the time, especially about Trump and Musk, but the rightists hardly ever say that they hate anyone.

You may say that you advocate against fighting hate with hate, but you are the one who thinks that the ones with the guns will win. So, if the leftists take away the guns from the good guys, according to you, the unlawful Democrats will win, because they will be the ones with the guns.

You wrote: “The moderate democrats don’t make the news, for obvious reasons…”

The moderate lefties are always in the news. They use the news as their own newsletter. Right after a radical leftist has shot someone, the moderate lefties demand that we disarm the law abiding so that the evil ones will be the only ones with the guns. The moderates are always in the news advocating a lot of other leftist ideologies, too. That is why we righties are so familiar with them — we cannot get away from them.

You wrote: “As I’ve said in several posts here in the last couple of days… Now is not the the time for rabid hate, now is the time for clear eyes and minds. Now is the time to reach out to those on the other side that share the horror of murder, now is not the time to light torches and raise pitchforks… Now is the time to reach out a hand to those that have different opinions, but also believe in democracy.”

Except that you are the one expressing any kind of hatred by accusing us of being the haters. Other leftists who have commented here, even in this same thread, have expressed hatred. Yet you refuse to acknowledge the reality that is in even this one posting and its comments. We are the ones who have considered your thoughts. We are the ones reaching out to the other side, but you have rejected everything that we have said. You are a poor example of your own words. You disagree with us, and because you interpret that as hatred, you feel the need to claim you do not hate. We disagree with you, and because you interpret that as hatred, you make claims that we hate.

And then you tell Cotour that you won’t even spend the time reading and thinking about what we have to say. Some reaching out, on your part.

Reading list
https://redstate.com/wardclark/2025/09/14/the-complete-reader-a-reading-list-for-todays-youth-n2193941