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	Comments on: This NASA bill is nothing more than pork	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Trent Waddington		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/essays-and-commentaries/this-nasa-bill-is-nothing-more-than-pork/#comment-2249</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Trent Waddington]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Oct 2010 06:14:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://behindtheblack.com/?p=3180#comment-2249</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Support for this bill is nothing more than relief that someone finally found something to agree on.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Support for this bill is nothing more than relief that someone finally found something to agree on.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kelly Starks		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/essays-and-commentaries/this-nasa-bill-is-nothing-more-than-pork/#comment-2236</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kelly Starks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Oct 2010 18:05:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://behindtheblack.com/?p=3180#comment-2236</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&#062; Gary Warburton says:
&#062;Posted September 30, 2010 at 1:27 PM
&#062;
&#062;==Who really runs the USA: the president, the senate, the congress, or ATK? I thought it was scientists 
&#062; and engineers who were supposed decide what kind of vehicle we need to put what they want in space.

NASA&#039;s civile service buracacy runs it, but they must respond to the political needs of congressman adn such ni their districts.

Why the hell did you think &quot;..scientists and engineers..&quot; run NASA?!!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; Gary Warburton says:<br />
&gt;Posted September 30, 2010 at 1:27 PM<br />
&gt;<br />
&gt;==Who really runs the USA: the president, the senate, the congress, or ATK? I thought it was scientists<br />
&gt; and engineers who were supposed decide what kind of vehicle we need to put what they want in space.</p>
<p>NASA&#8217;s civile service buracacy runs it, but they must respond to the political needs of congressman adn such ni their districts.</p>
<p>Why the hell did you think &#8220;..scientists and engineers..&#8221; run NASA?!!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kelly Starks		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/essays-and-commentaries/this-nasa-bill-is-nothing-more-than-pork/#comment-2235</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kelly Starks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Oct 2010 18:02:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://behindtheblack.com/?p=3180#comment-2235</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Some quips.
1- they didn’t vote on appropriating any money for this new “direction”.

2- it is good they did the blindingly obvious and kill Ares-1, but yes otherwise Constellations still ontrack.  It COULD be built within the money designated – but that would require NASA to streamline its organization and oversight.  Even where they legally could, they won’t.  Especially building a Constellation system they want to kill.

3- at best it is just pork thrown to industry to keep it from going out of business.  


Now not having the aerospace industry related to space exploration go out of business is a good thing; but we’ve still just gutted the space program and are just arguing about what remnants of the old NASA and space exploration related industry, to maintain.  Were not talking about any new path – or even any old path.  We’re not going anywhere.


4- NASA had or was offered several very technically doable, very good, successors to the shuttles, even obvious upgrades to the shuttles to correct their faults and cost issues.  All these proposals failed due to a couple critical flaws. The biggest was they would DRAMATICALLY lower launch costs and overhead requirements.   That was politically nonsensical, and utterly unacceptable, since it would cause layoffs in districts.  

5- the glimmer of hope because of money to “..subsidize the development of new private space rockets.”  Is really still more pork, its just going to different companies.  Alt.spacers like those companies more then the bigger older companies – but its still pork when it goes to your friends.  It is not buying a ticket to space no a new-space spaceline.

6- I’m going nuts over all the nonsense about how cool and innovative these new companies will be, and how much they will advance us in space.  If old companies were given contractual and oversight streamlining, they could do far more with far less.  If the new-space companies operate under the old rules, they will only be able to do far less then now with the same amount of money.  its a fantasy of new-spacers that old space was to stupid and inefficient to do anything.  Really old space is far more innovative and capable, but they also know the rules of the game.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some quips.<br />
1- they didn’t vote on appropriating any money for this new “direction”.</p>
<p>2- it is good they did the blindingly obvious and kill Ares-1, but yes otherwise Constellations still ontrack.  It COULD be built within the money designated – but that would require NASA to streamline its organization and oversight.  Even where they legally could, they won’t.  Especially building a Constellation system they want to kill.</p>
<p>3- at best it is just pork thrown to industry to keep it from going out of business.  </p>
<p>Now not having the aerospace industry related to space exploration go out of business is a good thing; but we’ve still just gutted the space program and are just arguing about what remnants of the old NASA and space exploration related industry, to maintain.  Were not talking about any new path – or even any old path.  We’re not going anywhere.</p>
<p>4- NASA had or was offered several very technically doable, very good, successors to the shuttles, even obvious upgrades to the shuttles to correct their faults and cost issues.  All these proposals failed due to a couple critical flaws. The biggest was they would DRAMATICALLY lower launch costs and overhead requirements.   That was politically nonsensical, and utterly unacceptable, since it would cause layoffs in districts.  </p>
<p>5- the glimmer of hope because of money to “..subsidize the development of new private space rockets.”  Is really still more pork, its just going to different companies.  Alt.spacers like those companies more then the bigger older companies – but its still pork when it goes to your friends.  It is not buying a ticket to space no a new-space spaceline.</p>
<p>6- I’m going nuts over all the nonsense about how cool and innovative these new companies will be, and how much they will advance us in space.  If old companies were given contractual and oversight streamlining, they could do far more with far less.  If the new-space companies operate under the old rules, they will only be able to do far less then now with the same amount of money.  its a fantasy of new-spacers that old space was to stupid and inefficient to do anything.  Really old space is far more innovative and capable, but they also know the rules of the game.</p>
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		<title>
		By: libs0n		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/essays-and-commentaries/this-nasa-bill-is-nothing-more-than-pork/#comment-2206</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[libs0n]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Sep 2010 18:49:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://behindtheblack.com/?p=3180#comment-2206</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The commercial crew initiative isn&#039;t about rockets, it&#039;s about crewed spacecraft for existing rockets, the Falcon 9, the Atlas 5.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The commercial crew initiative isn&#8217;t about rockets, it&#8217;s about crewed spacecraft for existing rockets, the Falcon 9, the Atlas 5.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Gary Warburton		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/essays-and-commentaries/this-nasa-bill-is-nothing-more-than-pork/#comment-2202</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gary Warburton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Sep 2010 17:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://behindtheblack.com/?p=3180#comment-2202</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I agree, and what if in 2016 when there is no HLV and its billions of dollars over budget? Will there then be a big hue and cry that those nasty private firms are not safe and we need a lot of new safety regulations so as to make it impossible to put anything in orbit. Or will they do that in the beginning before the private firm can embarrass them with cheaper rates. I guess I`ve come to mistrust these people after all their wrangling. Who really runs the USA: the president, the senate, the congress, or ATK? I thought it was scientists and engineers who were supposed decide what kind of vehicle we need to put what they want in space.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, and what if in 2016 when there is no HLV and its billions of dollars over budget? Will there then be a big hue and cry that those nasty private firms are not safe and we need a lot of new safety regulations so as to make it impossible to put anything in orbit. Or will they do that in the beginning before the private firm can embarrass them with cheaper rates. I guess I`ve come to mistrust these people after all their wrangling. Who really runs the USA: the president, the senate, the congress, or ATK? I thought it was scientists and engineers who were supposed decide what kind of vehicle we need to put what they want in space.</p>
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