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	Comments on: Cones, mounds, and layers of Martian ice?	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Robert Zimmerman		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/cones-mounds-and-layers-of-martian-ice/#comment-1389671</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert Zimmerman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Dec 2022 23:51:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=91323#comment-1389671</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/cones-mounds-and-layers-of-martian-ice/#comment-1389663&quot;&gt;Edward&lt;/a&gt;.

Edward: Actually a second region, Nili Fossae, is located adjacent to glacier country in the north, and in fact appears to the richest so far found on Mars. See:

&lt;a href=&quot;https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/mining-country-on-mars/&quot;&gt;Mining country on Mars?&lt;/a&gt;

As you can see by the overview map at the link, Nili Fossae is located just to the south of Nilosyrtis Fossae, the easternmost mensae region of glacier country. A colony between the two would have access to both water ice and mineral resources.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/cones-mounds-and-layers-of-martian-ice/#comment-1389663">Edward</a>.</p>
<p>Edward: Actually a second region, Nili Fossae, is located adjacent to glacier country in the north, and in fact appears to the richest so far found on Mars. See:</p>
<p><a href="https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/mining-country-on-mars/">Mining country on Mars?</a></p>
<p>As you can see by the overview map at the link, Nili Fossae is located just to the south of Nilosyrtis Fossae, the easternmost mensae region of glacier country. A colony between the two would have access to both water ice and mineral resources.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Edward		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/cones-mounds-and-layers-of-martian-ice/#comment-1389663</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Edward]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Dec 2022 23:12:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=91323#comment-1389663</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Robert, 
That is good news (not the part where I cannot remember your interesting posts from three months ago, but then I can&#039;t remember where I left my keys just this morning, either).  None of those locations seem to be near where SpaceX seems to want to land their first Starship on Mars, but that location is probably chosen more for easy landing and refueling (from the subterranean ice) than for long-term colonization.  First prove the concept, then colonize the planet.  

Another disappointment is that many of these sites do not seem to be in the regions with the glaciers, but there &lt;em&gt;are &lt;/em&gt;some mineral deposits in better locations for colonies.  From your linked post: &quot;&lt;em&gt;However, south of the giant canyon Valles Marineris is a mineral region at about 30 to 40 degrees south latitude, to the northwest of Argyre Basin. This is also a region with a high concentration of glacial features. The two combined will likely make this region very valuable real estate.&lt;/em&gt;&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert,<br />
That is good news (not the part where I cannot remember your interesting posts from three months ago, but then I can&#8217;t remember where I left my keys just this morning, either).  None of those locations seem to be near where SpaceX seems to want to land their first Starship on Mars, but that location is probably chosen more for easy landing and refueling (from the subterranean ice) than for long-term colonization.  First prove the concept, then colonize the planet.  </p>
<p>Another disappointment is that many of these sites do not seem to be in the regions with the glaciers, but there <em>are </em>some mineral deposits in better locations for colonies.  From your linked post: &#8220;<em>However, south of the giant canyon Valles Marineris is a mineral region at about 30 to 40 degrees south latitude, to the northwest of Argyre Basin. This is also a region with a high concentration of glacial features. The two combined will likely make this region very valuable real estate.</em>&#8220;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Robert Zimmerman		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/cones-mounds-and-layers-of-martian-ice/#comment-1389271</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert Zimmerman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Dec 2022 03:11:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=91323#comment-1389271</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/cones-mounds-and-layers-of-martian-ice/#comment-1389264&quot;&gt;Edward&lt;/a&gt;.

Edward: Orbital data has already given us a good preliminary survey of where the valuable minerals on Mars are located. See: &lt;a href=&quot;https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/a-global-map-of-mars-future-mining-regions/&quot;&gt;A global map of Mars’ future mining regions&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/cones-mounds-and-layers-of-martian-ice/#comment-1389264">Edward</a>.</p>
<p>Edward: Orbital data has already given us a good preliminary survey of where the valuable minerals on Mars are located. See: <a href="https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/a-global-map-of-mars-future-mining-regions/">A global map of Mars’ future mining regions</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Edward		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/cones-mounds-and-layers-of-martian-ice/#comment-1389264</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Edward]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Dec 2022 02:54:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=91323#comment-1389264</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[pzatchok wrote: &quot;&lt;em&gt;A tracked vehicle will need to be used for all mining and “earth” moving.&lt;/em&gt;&quot; 

This is an excellent point.  Mining will be very important, as it is the basic means of obtaining the insitu resources that the Martians will need.  Water seems to be abundant in many locations, but other materials, such as metals, will have to be mined or painstakingly removed from the soil.  

The mines would likely be outside of town, and it may not be cost effective to fly ore to the refineries.  Treads or halftracks (wheels and treads) are a good way to go for transit of these heavy ores.  If the distance is short enough, rails could be more cost efficient.  

Water resources are necessary for any growing civilization, which is why so many earthly cities are located on coasts, rivers, or lakes.  On Mars, other resources will likely drive colonial locations.  Metal deposits, lava tubes for radiation protection for the towns and cities, subsurface water ice are three.  The ice is widely available in certain latitudes, the lava tubes are scattered around, the metals are not yet known.  

This could be an interesting next few decades.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pzatchok wrote: &#8220;<em>A tracked vehicle will need to be used for all mining and “earth” moving.</em>&#8221; </p>
<p>This is an excellent point.  Mining will be very important, as it is the basic means of obtaining the insitu resources that the Martians will need.  Water seems to be abundant in many locations, but other materials, such as metals, will have to be mined or painstakingly removed from the soil.  </p>
<p>The mines would likely be outside of town, and it may not be cost effective to fly ore to the refineries.  Treads or halftracks (wheels and treads) are a good way to go for transit of these heavy ores.  If the distance is short enough, rails could be more cost efficient.  </p>
<p>Water resources are necessary for any growing civilization, which is why so many earthly cities are located on coasts, rivers, or lakes.  On Mars, other resources will likely drive colonial locations.  Metal deposits, lava tubes for radiation protection for the towns and cities, subsurface water ice are three.  The ice is widely available in certain latitudes, the lava tubes are scattered around, the metals are not yet known.  </p>
<p>This could be an interesting next few decades.</p>
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		By: pzatchok		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/cones-mounds-and-layers-of-martian-ice/#comment-1388425</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pzatchok]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Dec 2022 02:38:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=91323#comment-1388425</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Tracked vehicles will more than likely be the largest percentage of the vehicles. Just not the one to transport people for any distance.

A tracked vehicle will need to be used for all mining and &quot;earth&quot; moving. Then they can be used to move huge tonnages of material to closer processing plants. Like a train but without tracks or permanent roads. Just smoothed roadways.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tracked vehicles will more than likely be the largest percentage of the vehicles. Just not the one to transport people for any distance.</p>
<p>A tracked vehicle will need to be used for all mining and &#8220;earth&#8221; moving. Then they can be used to move huge tonnages of material to closer processing plants. Like a train but without tracks or permanent roads. Just smoothed roadways.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Edward		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/cones-mounds-and-layers-of-martian-ice/#comment-1387686</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Edward]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Dec 2022 01:23:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=91323#comment-1387686</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[To be clear, &quot;&lt;em&gt;they tended to remain fairly coastal&lt;/em&gt;&quot; meant the colonies, not the roads.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be clear, &#8220;<em>they tended to remain fairly coastal</em>&#8221; meant the colonies, not the roads.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Robert Zimmerman		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/cones-mounds-and-layers-of-martian-ice/#comment-1387654</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert Zimmerman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Dec 2022 00:35:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=91323#comment-1387654</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/cones-mounds-and-layers-of-martian-ice/#comment-1387636&quot;&gt;Edward&lt;/a&gt;.

Edward wrote: &quot;An analogy with the early American Colonies, four hundred years ago, there were few roads between colonies, and they tended to remain fairly coastal or along navigable rivers. Travel between colonies was generally easier by boat or ship.&quot;

Duh. How could I forget this simple fact. In Virginia especially, there were no roads at all for most of the first century, with almost all travel by boat.

New England developed roads sooner, but that was because the terrain did not provide as many navigable waterways.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/cones-mounds-and-layers-of-martian-ice/#comment-1387636">Edward</a>.</p>
<p>Edward wrote: &#8220;An analogy with the early American Colonies, four hundred years ago, there were few roads between colonies, and they tended to remain fairly coastal or along navigable rivers. Travel between colonies was generally easier by boat or ship.&#8221;</p>
<p>Duh. How could I forget this simple fact. In Virginia especially, there were no roads at all for most of the first century, with almost all travel by boat.</p>
<p>New England developed roads sooner, but that was because the terrain did not provide as many navigable waterways.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Edward		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/cones-mounds-and-layers-of-martian-ice/#comment-1387636</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Edward]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Dec 2022 00:15:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=91323#comment-1387636</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ray Van Dune and Robert, 
I agree with you both that flight is likely to dominate for long distance travel but possibly for a slightly different reason.  Rail is rather expensive to lay, but Martian roads are likely to be less expensive per mile (kilometer) than those on Earth.  Mars has less rainfall to worry about, so drainage is not so much of a problem.  Drainage on earthbound roads is fairly expensive and requires much maintenance (e.g. potholes due to rainfall or icing weakening the artificial surface).  

Manpower, however, will be at a premium, so despite the simplicity and relatively low cost of Martian roadways, Martians may be reluctant to spend the manpower on their construction.  For the first few decades or so, I expect that prepared roadways will only appear for the heaviest travelled routes.  Roadways for heavy local travel but flight for anything with distance.  

An analogy with the early American Colonies, four hundred years ago, there were few roads between colonies, and they tended to remain fairly coastal or along navigable rivers.  Travel between colonies was generally easier by boat or ship.  

If early colonies or settlements are built in lava tubes or are otherwise located underground then perhaps bored tubes would be preferred, as these would limit radiation exposure on the surface.  Once again, shorter routes would be the more affordable construction, and for several decades flight would remain preferred for longer distance travel.  

It always comes down to resources, resource management, and economics.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ray Van Dune and Robert,<br />
I agree with you both that flight is likely to dominate for long distance travel but possibly for a slightly different reason.  Rail is rather expensive to lay, but Martian roads are likely to be less expensive per mile (kilometer) than those on Earth.  Mars has less rainfall to worry about, so drainage is not so much of a problem.  Drainage on earthbound roads is fairly expensive and requires much maintenance (e.g. potholes due to rainfall or icing weakening the artificial surface).  </p>
<p>Manpower, however, will be at a premium, so despite the simplicity and relatively low cost of Martian roadways, Martians may be reluctant to spend the manpower on their construction.  For the first few decades or so, I expect that prepared roadways will only appear for the heaviest travelled routes.  Roadways for heavy local travel but flight for anything with distance.  </p>
<p>An analogy with the early American Colonies, four hundred years ago, there were few roads between colonies, and they tended to remain fairly coastal or along navigable rivers.  Travel between colonies was generally easier by boat or ship.  </p>
<p>If early colonies or settlements are built in lava tubes or are otherwise located underground then perhaps bored tubes would be preferred, as these would limit radiation exposure on the surface.  Once again, shorter routes would be the more affordable construction, and for several decades flight would remain preferred for longer distance travel.  </p>
<p>It always comes down to resources, resource management, and economics.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Robert Zimmerman		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/cones-mounds-and-layers-of-martian-ice/#comment-1387497</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert Zimmerman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2022 19:21:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=91323#comment-1387497</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/cones-mounds-and-layers-of-martian-ice/#comment-1387491&quot;&gt;Ray Van Dune&lt;/a&gt;.

Ray Van Dune: Your points about helicopters are on the money. What I was really saying (and in which we are in agreement) is that point-to-point flight will be the main method for transport on Mars, for a very long time.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/cones-mounds-and-layers-of-martian-ice/#comment-1387491">Ray Van Dune</a>.</p>
<p>Ray Van Dune: Your points about helicopters are on the money. What I was really saying (and in which we are in agreement) is that point-to-point flight will be the main method for transport on Mars, for a very long time.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ray Van Dune		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/cones-mounds-and-layers-of-martian-ice/#comment-1387491</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ray Van Dune]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2022 19:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=91323#comment-1387491</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Bob Zimmerman, I agree that point-to-point will probably dominate on Mars, but I am less sanguine about helicopters. Ingenuity&#039;s success is partly due to a very short range and a very small payload - most of its mass is either rotors or batteries.

Retortip-jets (actually rockets) might be more effective, but the futility of evaluating the future of technologies on Mars reminds me of Bob Newhart&#039;s comedy routine where he talks on the phone to the Wright Brothers: &quot;You think someday it will fly people across the Atlantic?! Are you nuts? For one thing, where will you put the bathroom?!&quot;

If in-situ propellant production proves effective I&#039;ll bet that is used to power helos for short hauls, and rockets for longer flights. Propellants are only as heavy as how much you need, or as how much remains... batteries are always heavy, charged or not! Today&#039;s batterie&#039;s anyway!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob Zimmerman, I agree that point-to-point will probably dominate on Mars, but I am less sanguine about helicopters. Ingenuity&#8217;s success is partly due to a very short range and a very small payload &#8211; most of its mass is either rotors or batteries.</p>
<p>Retortip-jets (actually rockets) might be more effective, but the futility of evaluating the future of technologies on Mars reminds me of Bob Newhart&#8217;s comedy routine where he talks on the phone to the Wright Brothers: &#8220;You think someday it will fly people across the Atlantic?! Are you nuts? For one thing, where will you put the bathroom?!&#8221;</p>
<p>If in-situ propellant production proves effective I&#8217;ll bet that is used to power helos for short hauls, and rockets for longer flights. Propellants are only as heavy as how much you need, or as how much remains&#8230; batteries are always heavy, charged or not! Today&#8217;s batterie&#8217;s anyway!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Robert Zimmerman		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/cones-mounds-and-layers-of-martian-ice/#comment-1387423</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert Zimmerman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2022 15:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=91323#comment-1387423</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/cones-mounds-and-layers-of-martian-ice/#comment-1387419&quot;&gt;Ray Van Dune&lt;/a&gt;.

Ray Van Dune: Considering the success of Ingenuity, I expect the Martian colonists will forego most road-building, and fly from point to point. Though preservation might be a minor factor, I expect the main reason will be cost and limited resources. Cheaper to build helicopters with no roads than rolling stock &lt;em&gt;plus&lt;/em&gt; roads/tracks.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/cones-mounds-and-layers-of-martian-ice/#comment-1387419">Ray Van Dune</a>.</p>
<p>Ray Van Dune: Considering the success of Ingenuity, I expect the Martian colonists will forego most road-building, and fly from point to point. Though preservation might be a minor factor, I expect the main reason will be cost and limited resources. Cheaper to build helicopters with no roads than rolling stock <em>plus</em> roads/tracks.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ray Van Dune		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/cones-mounds-and-layers-of-martian-ice/#comment-1387419</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ray Van Dune]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2022 15:32:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=91323#comment-1387419</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Another aspect of colonization is inter-colony communication, trade and transportation. The point-to-point capabilities of Starship (necessarily sans Superheavy) should be impressive on Mars, assuming in situ propellant production is robust. Of course surface roads have traditionally gone hand-in-hand with the dispersion of populations as rest-stops turn into towns and then cities, but the low surface gravity of Mars may make self-steered wheeled vehicles unsatisfactory. Railroads that hold rolling stock down?

An interesting factor will be the degree to which environmental preservationism dominates Martian society. I could see a no-touch philosophy that would prevent anything but aerial transport, as opposed to the &quot;slash through the forest&quot; approach that dominated the settling of Earth.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another aspect of colonization is inter-colony communication, trade and transportation. The point-to-point capabilities of Starship (necessarily sans Superheavy) should be impressive on Mars, assuming in situ propellant production is robust. Of course surface roads have traditionally gone hand-in-hand with the dispersion of populations as rest-stops turn into towns and then cities, but the low surface gravity of Mars may make self-steered wheeled vehicles unsatisfactory. Railroads that hold rolling stock down?</p>
<p>An interesting factor will be the degree to which environmental preservationism dominates Martian society. I could see a no-touch philosophy that would prevent anything but aerial transport, as opposed to the &#8220;slash through the forest&#8221; approach that dominated the settling of Earth.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jeff		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/cones-mounds-and-layers-of-martian-ice/#comment-1387295</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2022 10:54:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=91323#comment-1387295</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Another reason most of the missions are in the equatorial reason is parachute landings. The thin Martian atmosphere is slightly thicker there and helps with braking.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another reason most of the missions are in the equatorial reason is parachute landings. The thin Martian atmosphere is slightly thicker there and helps with braking.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lee S		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/cones-mounds-and-layers-of-martian-ice/#comment-1387184</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lee S]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2022 07:46:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=91323#comment-1387184</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[As SpaceX plans to land on retro rockets, I wonder if the ground can remain stable enough for landing under the heat? I guess it depends on the depth of the ice, and I&#039;m sure greater minds than mine have looked at this, but it must surely be a factor to consider.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As SpaceX plans to land on retro rockets, I wonder if the ground can remain stable enough for landing under the heat? I guess it depends on the depth of the ice, and I&#8217;m sure greater minds than mine have looked at this, but it must surely be a factor to consider.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Robert Zimmerman		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/cones-mounds-and-layers-of-martian-ice/#comment-1387111</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert Zimmerman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2022 04:11:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=91323#comment-1387111</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/cones-mounds-and-layers-of-martian-ice/#comment-1387108&quot;&gt;Ray Van Dune&lt;/a&gt;.

Ray Van Dune: You and my readers might have noticed, but in my trolling of the MRO image archive, I have slowly been compiling a larger sense of the overall geography of Mars, with colonization in mind. This larger view is known by many Mars planetary scientists, but even they tend to be too focused on specific local questions so that they often miss the forest for the trees. As a non-scientist and historian, I am taking a different perspective on this research, and it is revealing a different view of Mars.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/cones-mounds-and-layers-of-martian-ice/#comment-1387108">Ray Van Dune</a>.</p>
<p>Ray Van Dune: You and my readers might have noticed, but in my trolling of the MRO image archive, I have slowly been compiling a larger sense of the overall geography of Mars, with colonization in mind. This larger view is known by many Mars planetary scientists, but even they tend to be too focused on specific local questions so that they often miss the forest for the trees. As a non-scientist and historian, I am taking a different perspective on this research, and it is revealing a different view of Mars.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ray Van Dune		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/cones-mounds-and-layers-of-martian-ice/#comment-1387108</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ray Van Dune]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2022 04:08:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=91323#comment-1387108</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks for your clarification. I never meant that there WAS a parallel of course, only that I found it ironic that there might ultimately be a loose one, derived somehow from latitude... latitude on another world!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your clarification. I never meant that there WAS a parallel of course, only that I found it ironic that there might ultimately be a loose one, derived somehow from latitude&#8230; latitude on another world!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Robert Zimmerman		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/cones-mounds-and-layers-of-martian-ice/#comment-1387097</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert Zimmerman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2022 03:21:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=91323#comment-1387097</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/cones-mounds-and-layers-of-martian-ice/#comment-1387092&quot;&gt;Ray Van Dune&lt;/a&gt;.

Ray Van Dune: The southern location of the first British colonies was driven partly by climate, but that was because this was &lt;em&gt;beneficial&lt;/em&gt; to colonists. The equatorial location on Mars of all government rovers has had little to nothing to do with scouting for future colonies. Geology and science have been the main drivers to pick the sites.

The northern colonies that came later were almost all havens for religions refugees, Massachusetts for the Pilgrims and Puritans, Pennsylvania for the Quakers, Maryland for the Catholics, and Rhode Island for Roger Williams&#039; group. In fact, both the Pilgrims and Puritans were supposed to go to Virginia, but purposely went north to avoid that Royalist-controlled colony.

The reasons the northern colonies were more successful is exactly why I wrote Conscious Choice. Those reasons have almost nothing to do with location.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/cones-mounds-and-layers-of-martian-ice/#comment-1387092">Ray Van Dune</a>.</p>
<p>Ray Van Dune: The southern location of the first British colonies was driven partly by climate, but that was because this was <em>beneficial</em> to colonists. The equatorial location on Mars of all government rovers has had little to nothing to do with scouting for future colonies. Geology and science have been the main drivers to pick the sites.</p>
<p>The northern colonies that came later were almost all havens for religions refugees, Massachusetts for the Pilgrims and Puritans, Pennsylvania for the Quakers, Maryland for the Catholics, and Rhode Island for Roger Williams&#8217; group. In fact, both the Pilgrims and Puritans were supposed to go to Virginia, but purposely went north to avoid that Royalist-controlled colony.</p>
<p>The reasons the northern colonies were more successful is exactly why I wrote Conscious Choice. Those reasons have almost nothing to do with location.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ray Van Dune		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/cones-mounds-and-layers-of-martian-ice/#comment-1387092</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ray Van Dune]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2022 03:07:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=91323#comment-1387092</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Might this Martian site selection question potentially mirror that of some of the early North American colonies? Did similarly diverse factors drive the more southerly location of &quot;lost&quot; colonies, versus the more commercially successful northerly colonies?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Might this Martian site selection question potentially mirror that of some of the early North American colonies? Did similarly diverse factors drive the more southerly location of &#8220;lost&#8221; colonies, versus the more commercially successful northerly colonies?</p>
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