FAA grounds SpaceX because of first stage landing failure early today
“Great business you got there! Really be
a shame if something happened to it!”
They’re coming for you next: Once again the FAA has expanded its harassment of SpaceX by now grounding the company from any further launches while it “investigates” the failed landing of a Falcon 9 first stage last night. The FAA statement is as follows:
“The FAA is aware an anomaly occurred during the SpaceX Starlink Group 8-6 mission that launched from Cape Canaveral Space Force Station in Florida on August 28,” the FAA said Wednesday in a statement. “The incident involved the failure of the Falcon 9 booster rocket while landing on a droneship at sea. No public injuries or public property damage have been reported. The FAA is requiring an investigation.”
The FAA’s actions against SpaceX since Biden became president have consistently been unprecedented and biased against the company. No such grounding was issued by the FAA during any previous first stage failed landing. No such grounding was issued when SpaceX was crashing first stages on barges when it was trying to figure out how to do this.
No such investigation by the FAA were instituted when ULA had a valve issue on the Atlas-5 launch that launched Starliner manned to ISS. No such investigation has been instituted by the FAA as a result of Boeing’s thruster problems on Starliner.
In fact, the FAA even admits that it has no justification for this new grounding, since it admits that “No public injuries or public property damage have been reported.” Its entire statutory authority for regulation is based on protecting the public. Since the landing failure injured no one, what business is it of the FAA? None.
Finally and most important, there is no one at the FAA qualified to do any investigation. What it will do is kibbitz SpaceX while the company does the real investigation, then twiddle its thumbs for a few weeks retyping SpaceX’s conclusions, making believe it has completed its own “investigation”.
This harassment has got to stop, but we should only expect it to continue as long as the elected officials supposedly in charge of the federal government are willing or even eager to have it continue. Trump has said that he fully intends to house-clean should he win again, and all signs point to him really meaning it this time (he failed to do so in his first term). If he doesn’t win, we can only expect this harassment to escalate, to the point that it will likely shut down SpaceX and all other American rocket startups.
On Christmas Eve 1968 three Americans became the first humans to visit another world. What they did to celebrate was unexpected and profound, and will be remembered throughout all human history. Genesis: the Story of Apollo 8, Robert Zimmerman's classic history of humanity's first journey to another world, tells that story, and it is now available as both an ebook and an audiobook, both with a foreword by Valerie Anders and a new introduction by Robert Zimmerman.
The print edition can be purchased at Amazon. from any other book seller, or direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit.
The ebook is available everywhere for $5.99 (before discount) at amazon, or direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit. If you buy it from ebookit you don't support the big tech companies and the author gets a bigger cut much sooner.
The audiobook is also available at all these vendors, and is also free with a 30-day trial membership to Audible.
"Not simply about one mission, [Genesis] is also the history of America's quest for the moon... Zimmerman has done a masterful job of tying disparate events together into a solid account of one of America's greatest human triumphs."--San Antonio Express-News
“Great business you got there! Really be
a shame if something happened to it!”
They’re coming for you next: Once again the FAA has expanded its harassment of SpaceX by now grounding the company from any further launches while it “investigates” the failed landing of a Falcon 9 first stage last night. The FAA statement is as follows:
“The FAA is aware an anomaly occurred during the SpaceX Starlink Group 8-6 mission that launched from Cape Canaveral Space Force Station in Florida on August 28,” the FAA said Wednesday in a statement. “The incident involved the failure of the Falcon 9 booster rocket while landing on a droneship at sea. No public injuries or public property damage have been reported. The FAA is requiring an investigation.”
The FAA’s actions against SpaceX since Biden became president have consistently been unprecedented and biased against the company. No such grounding was issued by the FAA during any previous first stage failed landing. No such grounding was issued when SpaceX was crashing first stages on barges when it was trying to figure out how to do this.
No such investigation by the FAA were instituted when ULA had a valve issue on the Atlas-5 launch that launched Starliner manned to ISS. No such investigation has been instituted by the FAA as a result of Boeing’s thruster problems on Starliner.
In fact, the FAA even admits that it has no justification for this new grounding, since it admits that “No public injuries or public property damage have been reported.” Its entire statutory authority for regulation is based on protecting the public. Since the landing failure injured no one, what business is it of the FAA? None.
Finally and most important, there is no one at the FAA qualified to do any investigation. What it will do is kibbitz SpaceX while the company does the real investigation, then twiddle its thumbs for a few weeks retyping SpaceX’s conclusions, making believe it has completed its own “investigation”.
This harassment has got to stop, but we should only expect it to continue as long as the elected officials supposedly in charge of the federal government are willing or even eager to have it continue. Trump has said that he fully intends to house-clean should he win again, and all signs point to him really meaning it this time (he failed to do so in his first term). If he doesn’t win, we can only expect this harassment to escalate, to the point that it will likely shut down SpaceX and all other American rocket startups.
On Christmas Eve 1968 three Americans became the first humans to visit another world. What they did to celebrate was unexpected and profound, and will be remembered throughout all human history. Genesis: the Story of Apollo 8, Robert Zimmerman's classic history of humanity's first journey to another world, tells that story, and it is now available as both an ebook and an audiobook, both with a foreword by Valerie Anders and a new introduction by Robert Zimmerman.
The print edition can be purchased at Amazon. from any other book seller, or direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit. The ebook is available everywhere for $5.99 (before discount) at amazon, or direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit. If you buy it from ebookit you don't support the big tech companies and the author gets a bigger cut much sooner.
The audiobook is also available at all these vendors, and is also free with a 30-day trial membership to Audible.
"Not simply about one mission, [Genesis] is also the history of America's quest for the moon... Zimmerman has done a masterful job of tying disparate events together into a solid account of one of America's greatest human triumphs."--San Antonio Express-News
“the FAA even admits that it has no justification for this new grounding, since it admits that “No public injuries or public property damage have been reported.” Its entire statutory authority for regulation is based on protecting the public.”
Who needs statutory authority when you have a pen, and a phone?
Student loans.
Mischievous prosecutions or in a like manner looking the other way to avoid prosecutions of the favored.
“We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution…”
RocketLab intend to launch Neutron from a pad at their launch complex 2 in Virginia.
So far this year they’ve launched once from Virginia and 9 times from their launch complex 1 at Mahia.
Perhaps they should switch Neutron to Mahia.
Absolutely ridiculous.
Massachusetts Institute of Technology President Sally Kornbluth warned students that the school won’t tolerate antisemitism after flyers at an orientation event provided a link to a project that maps Jewish organizations and expresses the goal of dismantling them.
That included a link to the Mapping Project, which lists hundreds of institutions in the Boston area such as synagogues, museums, businesses and police departments.
Kornbluth said she believed the Mapping Project promotes antisemitism, citing statements from its website such as, “Our goal in pursuing this collective mapping was to reveal the local entities and networks that enact devastation, so we can dismantle them.”
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/mit-president-warns-students-over-promoting-antisemitic-project/ar-AA1pBefx?ocid=msedgntp&pc=LCTS&cvid=92d1578f28854c0e979ff8a4e9dd10fb&ei=26#comments
Incredibly, there are comments that say this is not anti-Semitic . One wonders how they would feel about a similar list of Muslim insitutions with avowed goal of dismantling them.
OK FAA our plan is to launch this here rocket and have the first stage either land on the boat, crash into the ocean or land and fall over.
Game has helped the people’s cause greatly in Boca Chica, now SpaceX shall feel the wrath of Fish. The combined power of Fish & Game will come to the aid the great FAA. They’ll do the mother of all environmental studies to protect the fish near the drop zone. Forward comrades!
The FAA must concentrate its efforts on the publics that could be in danger at the drop zone. It could take a considerable amount of time to find them, if you catch our meaning.
Now Elon, let’s talk about misinformation and disinformation about this very important election coming up. We only want to talk.
”Perhaps they should switch Neutron to Mahia.”
And exactly how would that help?
here we go…
Monty Python
Dino & Luigi
https://youtu.be/cNZKUozrBl4?t=91
M Kent, the FAA doesn’t control NZ airspace.
Andrew_W: The FAA might not control NZ airspace, but it does control SpaceX. The company would still be unable to launch without a launch license from the agency.
Might as well have went to a cartoon…those two tried that at the ABMA in Huntsville they would have been cut in half at the gate.
Mr. Zimmerman I’m talking about RocketLab.
The FAA could be sidelined, it controls US airspace and US registered aircraft worldwide. If an aircraft isn’t US registered or in US airspace it can’t restrict flights directly.
So RocketLab US could manufacture but if it’s registered in NZ to RocketLab NZ the vehicle would be outside of FAA control.
Can the FAA bar exports of aircraft/launch vehicles?
I suspect not, but I admit other US agencies and departments (the defense department? Commerce?) Would have to cooperate with such an effort to get around the FAA.
So I admit, not a likely scenario.
Goverment restrictions on business are much tighter in the US, with more bureaucratic hurdles, than in New Zealand.
I think we‘re missing a basic point here. The FAA does NOT investigate accidents! That job is handled by the NTSB, which has experts who are on standby to immediately go to the site of a transportation accident & start the investigation. Six months later (typically) they issue a report which explains exactly what happened & why. They may advise the FAA to take action to fix a serious problem, such as issuing an “AD” for aircraft. The FAA should not be making these “off-the-cuff” judgements before any investigation has been done.
”So RocketLab US could manufacture but if it’s registered in NZ to RocketLab NZ the vehicle would be outside of FAA control.”
No, it wouldn’t. Mahia is an American launch site under the jurisdiction of the American FAA. In addition to that, as an American launch company Rocket Lab is under the jurisdiction of the FAA no matter where it launches from.
”Can the FAA bar exports of aircraft/launch vehicles?”
No, but the Department of State can. Rocket Lab needs an export license from the Department of State to export any launch-vehicle-related hardware, software, drawing, specification, technology, or service to New Zealand or any New Zealander, even those working in the United States. If the DoS pulls that export license, Rocket Lab pretty much comes to a full stop.
Rocket Lab isn’t going to commit suicide because a couple of Falcon 9 flights get delayed a week or two.
The comments over at Transterrestrial Musings on Rand’s post on this subject are somewhat enlightening. One commenter there, despite being rather obnoxious and throwing a lot of unnecessary vitriol at Mr. Zimmerman (but apparently he’s not brave enough to do it here..) does correctly point out that the “Streamlined Launch and Reentry License Requirements” which were covered here back when they were being proposed and publicly commented on, change the rules that apply to a mishap from what they were. So saying that “the FAA never..” is not an apples-to-apples comparison.
Of course, I’m not willing to give them more than that tiny bit of slack, as was pointed out when these “streamlined” rules were being discussed, they do anything but streamline things. And nothing in the rule seems to require an FAA investigation, much less a grounding of the SpaceX fleet in the meantime.
I suspect that, as with the recent second stage incident, SpaceX will file a motion to resume flight while the investigation is still underway as there is no apparent risk of harm or damage to the public. And as Mr. Zimmerman pointed out on that one, since the FAA has already admitted as much, the question isn’t “whether they will approve that motion” as “why did you ground them in the first place?”
I decided to go dig into the Federal register. IANAL, but this seems like the relevant rule:
(e) Mishap investigation requirements.
In the event of a mishap, an operator
must—
(1) Investigate the root causes of the
mishap; and
(2) Report investigation results to the
FAA.
(f) Preventative measures. An operator
must identify and implement preventive
measures for avoiding recurrence of the
mishap prior to the next flight, unless
otherwise approved
So that part (f) would decree that SpaceX cannot fly Falcon 9 again until they have identified and implemented preventative measures. Which actually points the finger back at the very definition of “Mishap” which was extensively argued in the hearings, and while I can’t find the actual definition entry in the regulation, there is a summary of the points raised and discussion about that definition and the rough description that indicates that “unexpected loss of vehicle” counts as a mishap, triggering the requirements for an investigation and mitigation above.
So, it’s bad, it’s overreach, it’s a waste of everyone’s time, but it’s clearly defined in the regulations that they must do it this way.
The FAA only has license control over Mahia for as long as the NZ government says it does.
I’ve already pointed out that to bypass the FAA the cooperation of other US federal agencies would be necessary, and that such a scenario is unlikely.
Neutron is intended to be a RTLS first stage, the operation of which I expect the FAA will be slow to approve.
Hopefully something changes, otherwise I expect RocketLab will find itself in an even worse position than SpaceX in terms of getting FAA approval.
Quite possibly RocketLab has already committed suicide by putting itself at the mercy of US government agencies.
Andrew_W, you seem to be confused. It’s not that FAA has any license control over Mahia spaceport, with or without the cooperation of the NZ government. It’s that the FAA has authority over companies registered, headquartered, and operated in the United States. Which RocketLab is. And when RocketLab was founded, the decision to incorporate in the US was made for a variety of reasons per an interview the company gave the EveryDay astronaut, which included access to certain technologies and licenses, but also just that the founder was proud to be American.
As with SpaceX, there is no way out. SpaceX and RocketLab are US companies, subject to the regulation of the US Government. They are in possession of information, technologies, and equipment that are controlled materials prevented from export to non-US companies except under very rare, not going to happen, circumstances. There is no way either of those countries can get out from under the thumb of the US Govt at this time, even if they just closed shop and tried to re-open as a new company starting from scratch in another country, there would be legal issues with their existing knowledge.
Andrew_W: In one point you are correct for sure. Rocket Lab has already suffered due to the red tape that has taken over the space bureaucracy in the past four years, since the new regs were installed to so-call “streamline” things. The company had wanted to launch from Wallops in 2020, and had to wait two years for NASA to come up with its own flight termination software, even though Rocket Lab had proven software it had used in New Zealand, and even though Wallops was a range that had hosted launches since before the establishment of NASA itself.
“The FAA only has license control over Mahia for as long as the NZ government says it does.”
LOL! Like the Australian government, the NZ government is a American satrapy. Neither government will ever do anything to upset the US government.
Just for starters neither country is capable of defending itself without US help. New Zealand’s only tactical fighter force consists of a bunch of WW1 and WW2 fighters operated by warbird enthusiasts.
Mike Borgelt, it’s Australia that keeps cozying up to the US like a pussy cat, not New Zealand.
Matt Walsh understands what Australia is made of.
https://youtu.be/YpOJaZ2t7lg?si=a2l7izsoOUhLvF9r
Elon should tell NASA he changed his mind and they should get their own astronauts back from ISS.
Eric Berger posted last night on what his sources are saying: “For those hand-wringing about the Falcon 9 being “grounded,” I don’t expect the FAA investigation to impact the SpaceX launch manifest too much. This is probably not a “weeks” thing. More like days. Maybe hours.”
https://x.com/SciGuySpace/status/1828854410958475769
This is like grounding the fleet because the plane blew a tire on landing.
Why are they not stopping Starliner flights until a full report and fix is implemented?
“Mike Borgelt, it’s Australia that keeps cozying up to the US like a pussy cat, not New Zealand.”
We are doing it on your behalf so the NZ government can pretend it is independent. New Zealand thinks it can get away without serious armed forces because it is far away from everywhere.
Why are they not stopping Starliner flights until a full report and fix is implemented?
What Starliner fights? There’s nothing to ground.
Elon should tell NASA he changed his mind and they should get their own astronauts back from ISS.
I have my suspicions that Elon has done something similar with the DoD: Your satellites look nice in that warehouse; you want them in space, you call off the regulators.
Mark Sizer: In the case of Starliner one could easily argue that public safety is an issue when the capsule returns, making it the business of the FAA to “investigate” and prevent a return. If those thrusters function badly, that capsule might end up crashing over habitable areas.
That scenario I know is silly, but this IS the logic the FAA is using in its harassment of SpaceX.
”I have my suspicions that Elon has done something similar with the DoD: Your satellites look nice in that warehouse; you want them in space, you call off the regulators.”
Oh, good grief! The end result of that — predictable well in advance — is that Elon would be removed as an officer of SpaceX.
Mark Sizer i am sure they have the next ones on the production line. They could be told to go back and fix them before they are allowed to fly at all.
Plus they could be ordered to send the old trunk back in some way that it might be recovered intact. I bet they do not totally burn up but instead crash into the ocean pretty much complete.
By not collecting up all the parts the EPA could go after them also and force them to keep the trunk intact for recovery. Its possible to do it. Just not very cost effective.