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	Comments on: Hubble in safe mode, down to two gyroscopes	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Edward		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/hubble-in-safe-mode-down-to-two-gyroscopes/#comment-1060210</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Edward]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2018 20:34:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=54065#comment-1060210</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Kyle asked: &quot;&lt;i&gt;How about they detach the Canadarm2 and module from ISS and ferry it over to Hubble with a dragon&lt;/i&gt;&quot; 

Their orbits are very different.  Hubble is at about 20 degree inclination, and the ISS is about 60 degrees.  The delta v needed to change 40 degrees of inclination is more than half the orbital speed, which means that would take more than 4 km/sec of delta v.  Then another similar delta v to return it.  

We have known that Hubble was eventually doomed, but NASA and Congress have not been eager to prepare another rescue attempt in advance of this event, even with the possibility of borrowing the mysterious X-37B (or is the Air Force unwilling to lend it out?).  I think that we have to acknowledge and accept the sad fact that Hubble will eventually or soon be relegated to reduced-science mode, at least for the foreseeable future.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kyle asked: &#8220;<i>How about they detach the Canadarm2 and module from ISS and ferry it over to Hubble with a dragon</i>&#8221; </p>
<p>Their orbits are very different.  Hubble is at about 20 degree inclination, and the ISS is about 60 degrees.  The delta v needed to change 40 degrees of inclination is more than half the orbital speed, which means that would take more than 4 km/sec of delta v.  Then another similar delta v to return it.  </p>
<p>We have known that Hubble was eventually doomed, but NASA and Congress have not been eager to prepare another rescue attempt in advance of this event, even with the possibility of borrowing the mysterious X-37B (or is the Air Force unwilling to lend it out?).  I think that we have to acknowledge and accept the sad fact that Hubble will eventually or soon be relegated to reduced-science mode, at least for the foreseeable future.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Chris Cresta		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/hubble-in-safe-mode-down-to-two-gyroscopes/#comment-1060203</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris Cresta]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2018 14:14:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=54065#comment-1060203</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s too bad that the unused spy satellite with the Hubble grade mirror that was one of two gifted to NASA (the other one being used for WFIRST) couldn&#039;t be turned into a Hubble replacement.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s too bad that the unused spy satellite with the Hubble grade mirror that was one of two gifted to NASA (the other one being used for WFIRST) couldn&#8217;t be turned into a Hubble replacement.</p>
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		<title>
		By: pzatchok		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/hubble-in-safe-mode-down-to-two-gyroscopes/#comment-1060195</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pzatchok]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2018 05:49:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=54065#comment-1060195</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[A MEV style system could and would work great.

But I do not think the Hubble has available hard points that are robotically accessible.

But maybe a simple clamp on system could be assembled inside a year? Or at least something to boost it to a higher orbit to save it for latter repairs.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A MEV style system could and would work great.</p>
<p>But I do not think the Hubble has available hard points that are robotically accessible.</p>
<p>But maybe a simple clamp on system could be assembled inside a year? Or at least something to boost it to a higher orbit to save it for latter repairs.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kyle		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/hubble-in-safe-mode-down-to-two-gyroscopes/#comment-1060194</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kyle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2018 05:18:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=54065#comment-1060194</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Does the Air Force&#039;s X-37B have a robot arm? Or perhaps it could send a robot to fix it.  How big are these gyroscopes?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does the Air Force&#8217;s X-37B have a robot arm? Or perhaps it could send a robot to fix it.  How big are these gyroscopes?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Robert Zimmerman		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/hubble-in-safe-mode-down-to-two-gyroscopes/#comment-1060191</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert Zimmerman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2018 03:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=54065#comment-1060191</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/hubble-in-safe-mode-down-to-two-gyroscopes/#comment-1060190&quot;&gt;Richard&lt;/a&gt;.

Richard: WFIRST stands for Wide Field Infrared Space Telescope. It is not designed to provide optical observations. It, like Webb, is not a replacement for Hubble in the slightest.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/hubble-in-safe-mode-down-to-two-gyroscopes/#comment-1060190">Richard</a>.</p>
<p>Richard: WFIRST stands for Wide Field Infrared Space Telescope. It is not designed to provide optical observations. It, like Webb, is not a replacement for Hubble in the slightest.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/hubble-in-safe-mode-down-to-two-gyroscopes/#comment-1060190</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2018 02:53:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=54065#comment-1060190</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Isn&#039;t WFIRST supposed to be the de facto replacement for Hubble? I mean, assuming it survives the budget cutters&#039; axe?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t WFIRST supposed to be the de facto replacement for Hubble? I mean, assuming it survives the budget cutters&#8217; axe?</p>
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		<title>
		By: wayne		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/hubble-in-safe-mode-down-to-two-gyroscopes/#comment-1060188</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[wayne]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2018 23:01:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=54065#comment-1060188</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Writing Hubble Telescope History: 
Q&#038;A with Author Robert Zimmerman
April 22, 2015 
https://www.space.com/29167-hubble-telescope-book-robert-zimmerman-interview.html]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Writing Hubble Telescope History:<br />
Q&amp;A with Author Robert Zimmerman<br />
April 22, 2015<br />
<a href="https://www.space.com/29167-hubble-telescope-book-robert-zimmerman-interview.html" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.space.com/29167-hubble-telescope-book-robert-zimmerman-interview.html</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Kyle		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/hubble-in-safe-mode-down-to-two-gyroscopes/#comment-1060187</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kyle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2018 22:39:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=54065#comment-1060187</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[How about they detach the Canadarm2 and module from ISS and ferry it over to Hubble with a dragon]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about they detach the Canadarm2 and module from ISS and ferry it over to Hubble with a dragon</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wodun		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/hubble-in-safe-mode-down-to-two-gyroscopes/#comment-1060184</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wodun]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2018 19:36:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=54065#comment-1060184</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The MEV or the spin-off products could possibly solve this problem.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The MEV or the spin-off products could possibly solve this problem.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Robert Zimmerman		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/hubble-in-safe-mode-down-to-two-gyroscopes/#comment-1060183</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert Zimmerman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2018 18:52:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=54065#comment-1060183</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/hubble-in-safe-mode-down-to-two-gyroscopes/#comment-1060181&quot;&gt;wayne&lt;/a&gt;.

wayne: I&#039;ve said this before, but it simply isn&#039;t that good a lecture on my part. Too long. Better people read &lt;a href=&quot;https://behindtheblack.com/books/the-universe-in-a-mirror/&quot;&gt;the book.&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/hubble-in-safe-mode-down-to-two-gyroscopes/#comment-1060181">wayne</a>.</p>
<p>wayne: I&#8217;ve said this before, but it simply isn&#8217;t that good a lecture on my part. Too long. Better people read <a href="https://behindtheblack.com/books/the-universe-in-a-mirror/">the book.</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: wayne		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/hubble-in-safe-mode-down-to-two-gyroscopes/#comment-1060181</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[wayne]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2018 18:44:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=54065#comment-1060181</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;The Hubble Space Telescope and the Visionaries Who Built It&quot;
Explorer&#039;s Club, June 30, 2008
WGBH
https://youtu.be/5mNJAf83YTs
1:24:20

(this should have a lot more Views!)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The Hubble Space Telescope and the Visionaries Who Built It&#8221;<br />
Explorer&#8217;s Club, June 30, 2008<br />
WGBH<br />
<a href="https://youtu.be/5mNJAf83YTs" rel="nofollow ugc">https://youtu.be/5mNJAf83YTs</a><br />
1:24:20</p>
<p>(this should have a lot more Views!)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Robert Zimmerman		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/hubble-in-safe-mode-down-to-two-gyroscopes/#comment-1060180</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert Zimmerman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2018 18:36:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=54065#comment-1060180</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/hubble-in-safe-mode-down-to-two-gyroscopes/#comment-1060179&quot;&gt;born01930&lt;/a&gt;.

born01930: My rough memory is that Dragon and Starliner are only rated for about a week in orbit, unattached to ISS.

They are not designed to do this, and making it possible is far harder than you imagine. In fact, right now a robotic mission to Hubble might make more sense. Some NASA engineers proposed this back in the mid-2000s, when then-NASA administrator Sean O&#039;Keefe canceled the last shuttle servicing mission. Then it didn&#039;t make sense, as the technology and engineering was not far enough advanced. Today such a mission is very conceivable, at a reasonable cost.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/hubble-in-safe-mode-down-to-two-gyroscopes/#comment-1060179">born01930</a>.</p>
<p>born01930: My rough memory is that Dragon and Starliner are only rated for about a week in orbit, unattached to ISS.</p>
<p>They are not designed to do this, and making it possible is far harder than you imagine. In fact, right now a robotic mission to Hubble might make more sense. Some NASA engineers proposed this back in the mid-2000s, when then-NASA administrator Sean O&#8217;Keefe canceled the last shuttle servicing mission. Then it didn&#8217;t make sense, as the technology and engineering was not far enough advanced. Today such a mission is very conceivable, at a reasonable cost.</p>
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		<title>
		By: born01930		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/hubble-in-safe-mode-down-to-two-gyroscopes/#comment-1060179</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[born01930]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2018 18:33:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=54065#comment-1060179</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[David,

Maybe it is a pipe dream but it seems like an adapter node for the Dragon (ala Apollo-Soyuz) that can take a vacuum, have handholds and a small grappler could be built. I am no rocket engineer which is obvious...the hardest part may be the environmental control for Dragon. Do you know how long it is supposed to be rated for staying aloft?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>Maybe it is a pipe dream but it seems like an adapter node for the Dragon (ala Apollo-Soyuz) that can take a vacuum, have handholds and a small grappler could be built. I am no rocket engineer which is obvious&#8230;the hardest part may be the environmental control for Dragon. Do you know how long it is supposed to be rated for staying aloft?</p>
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		<title>
		By: David		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/hubble-in-safe-mode-down-to-two-gyroscopes/#comment-1060178</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2018 18:07:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=54065#comment-1060178</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[While sending a Dragon to update the Hubble sounds like a neat concept, it&#039;s not even remotely realistic.  Dragon isn&#039;t currently set to spend that much time occupied on orbit, there are no outside handholds or such for EVA, there is no mechanism to grapple the Hubble, and perhaps most importantly, there is no provision for EVA capable suits, opening the capsule to vacuum, etc.  Starliner has all the same issues.  Orion could handle the on-orbit time, but still has all the other issues.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While sending a Dragon to update the Hubble sounds like a neat concept, it&#8217;s not even remotely realistic.  Dragon isn&#8217;t currently set to spend that much time occupied on orbit, there are no outside handholds or such for EVA, there is no mechanism to grapple the Hubble, and perhaps most importantly, there is no provision for EVA capable suits, opening the capsule to vacuum, etc.  Starliner has all the same issues.  Orion could handle the on-orbit time, but still has all the other issues.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Robert Zimmerman		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/hubble-in-safe-mode-down-to-two-gyroscopes/#comment-1060177</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert Zimmerman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2018 18:03:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=54065#comment-1060177</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/hubble-in-safe-mode-down-to-two-gyroscopes/#comment-1060175&quot;&gt;Diane Wilson&lt;/a&gt;.

Diane Wilson: The problem with ground-based telescopes using adaptive optics is that they can only observe very small fields sharply. With Hubble gone we will no longer have its wide field capabilities.

Moreover, except for Keck all the giant ground-based telescopes built in the past two decades have had serious technical problems, unexpected by their designers or builders, and have thus produced disappointing results. (I have written about his for &lt;em&gt;Sky &amp; Telescope&lt;/em&gt;: see their January 2015 issue.)

The simple fact is that it is much more cost effective for astronomers to build an optical space telescope. They get much more bang for the buck. We are losing this now.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/hubble-in-safe-mode-down-to-two-gyroscopes/#comment-1060175">Diane Wilson</a>.</p>
<p>Diane Wilson: The problem with ground-based telescopes using adaptive optics is that they can only observe very small fields sharply. With Hubble gone we will no longer have its wide field capabilities.</p>
<p>Moreover, except for Keck all the giant ground-based telescopes built in the past two decades have had serious technical problems, unexpected by their designers or builders, and have thus produced disappointing results. (I have written about his for <em>Sky &#038; Telescope</em>: see their January 2015 issue.)</p>
<p>The simple fact is that it is much more cost effective for astronomers to build an optical space telescope. They get much more bang for the buck. We are losing this now.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Diane Wilson		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/hubble-in-safe-mode-down-to-two-gyroscopes/#comment-1060175</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Diane Wilson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2018 17:23:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=54065#comment-1060175</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The ESO Very Large Telescope in the Atacama desert has achieved first light with adaptive optics and interferometry, and can achieve image sharpness that equals or exceeds Hubble. It uses four 8.1 meter mirrors, and smaller, 1.8 meter mirrors for interferometry. In addition, construction is under way for the Extremely Large Telescope that will have a 40 meter mirror, and is supposed to equal or exceed the optical resolution of JWST. First light is planned for 2024.

Best of all, these can be serviced from the ground.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ESO Very Large Telescope in the Atacama desert has achieved first light with adaptive optics and interferometry, and can achieve image sharpness that equals or exceeds Hubble. It uses four 8.1 meter mirrors, and smaller, 1.8 meter mirrors for interferometry. In addition, construction is under way for the Extremely Large Telescope that will have a 40 meter mirror, and is supposed to equal or exceed the optical resolution of JWST. First light is planned for 2024.</p>
<p>Best of all, these can be serviced from the ground.</p>
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		<title>
		By: born01930		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/hubble-in-safe-mode-down-to-two-gyroscopes/#comment-1060173</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[born01930]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2018 16:18:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=54065#comment-1060173</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[How about this for a publicity stunt...SpaceX offers to fix Hubble from Dragon...NASA provides the gyroscopes and pool time for training since they should already have the mockup. No need to service ISS first, go fix Hubble]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about this for a publicity stunt&#8230;SpaceX offers to fix Hubble from Dragon&#8230;NASA provides the gyroscopes and pool time for training since they should already have the mockup. No need to service ISS first, go fix Hubble</p>
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