Comments on: Lockheed Martin starts assembling first manned Orion capsule

By: Edward

Edward — Mon, 05 Feb 2018 00:32:59 +0000

Klystron,

Nice analysis, but you missed the part where there is a small non-zero velocity. The mass (or is it “mess”?) from Congress, on the other hand, is so large that it overwhelms the small non-zero velocity to produce a tremendous momentum. It is that overwhelming mass that makes it so difficult to halt the boondoggle.

We keep thinking that SLS, and possibly Orion, will collapse under the embarrassment of the inexpensive Falcon Heavy, but Congress may be able to continue to rationalize SLS by noting that there will be a much more capable version coming along soon. Where “soon” means sometime in the far distant future (2029, if there is no further schedule slip — yeah, I’m laughing, too).

The Big Falcon Rocket’s large spaceship, Interplanetary Transport System (Big Falcon Spaceship?), could be flying before Orion can make its first actual mission flight, maybe even the scheduled first manned test flight. Please note that there is no current actual mission for Orion, just a test flight.

– Falcon Heavy: 63,800 kg to low Earth orbit(LEO); first launch in 2018
– SLS Block 1: 70,000 kg to LEO; first launch in 2019

— BFR: 250,000 kg to LEO expendable/150,000 kg reusable; first launch in 2022
— SLS Block 2: 130,000 kg to LEO; first launch in 2029

Saturn V: 140,000 kg to LEO

reference:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_orbital_launch_systems

By: Localfluff

Localfluff — Sun, 04 Feb 2018 20:28:13 +0000

@D Engel
The Falcon Heavy could launch Orion with the DCSS-5 upper stage (that will be used on the first SLS+Orion launch), and then Orion gets 3 km/s delta-v from LEO. This seems to be enough for a Lunar flyby-and-return but not to enter Lunar orbit and then return to Earth.

Elon Musk said, when asked a couple of years ago, that Falcon Heavy could land an astronaut on the Moon, but the return vehicle would have to be landed uncrewed separately. I think it can be more practical to build a Lunar spacecraft in LEO, if it so takes three Falcon Heavy launches.

By: D Engel

D Engel — Sun, 04 Feb 2018 17:14:07 +0000

Could the Falcon Heavy launch the Orion?

By: wayne

wayne — Sun, 04 Feb 2018 15:42:11 +0000

Hey Klystron– great moniker!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/47/Prototype_klystron_cutaway.jpg

By: Klystron

Klystron — Sun, 04 Feb 2018 10:01:14 +0000

“Orion has tremendous momentum”. This is verifiably false. Where momentum p = mv, Orion has a velocity v=0. Therefore Orion has ZERO momentum! Q.E.D.

Great work Bob in shining the light on this massive boondoggle.

By: ken anthony

ken anthony — Sun, 04 Feb 2018 03:19:55 +0000

What’s a journalist?

By: Localfluff

Localfluff — Sat, 03 Feb 2018 21:45:38 +0000

Sending astronauts to an asteroid turned into towing an asteroid to Lunar orbit, and then just a boulder from an asteroid. DSG is ARM without also the boulder, it’s just the rendezvous in Lunar orbit, but without anything to rendezvous with. They even keep the solar electric propulsion that the ARM asteroid (boulder) towing spacecraft was supposed to have used, to keep DSG on station balancing a Lagrange point. Orion will make up about one third of the DSG’s pressurized volume, it’s design and location are made up just to make SLS and Orion indispensable.

Many things will happen in five years. I think Orion will find it harder and harder to actually fly at all some day.

@Kirk
They mean in 50 years from now.

By: Kirk

Kirk — Sat, 03 Feb 2018 18:27:00 +0000

I see the article makes a big deal about it being the capsule which will “carry astronauts beyond low Earth orbit for the first time in almost 50 years.” I wonder how concerned SpaceX is about stepping on toes with their planned lunar tourism mission. Dragon 2 is no Orion, but such a flight would take away some of Orion’s bragging rights.

By: Kirk

Kirk — Sat, 03 Feb 2018 18:17:16 +0000

RZ: “What Orion really is is a lie. It is nothing more than the ascent/descent capsule for the as-yet still undesigned, unfunded, and unbuilt interplanetary spaceship that will be needed for any real deep missions.”

This is the part I’ve never understand. Back when NASA was officially on a “Journey to Mars”, Orion was described as part of that pathway. I’ve assumed that if you needed to haul an Earth descent capsule with you all the way out and back, you’d want to make it as light a possible, with the result likely as cramped as a Soyuz descent module. Orion is way too big for this purpose, but is too small to be the habitation module for a six month voyage. It may be the right size for the late lamented(?) ARM, or the planned annual month-long visits to the DSG, but isn’t that because these missions were built around the hardware?