NASA/Boeing push back final decision of Starliner return
Starliner docked to ISS.
Someone at NASA getting cold feet? According to a NASA posting today, the review that was supposed to happen this week to determine a return date for Starliner and its two-astronaut crew has been postponed until next week as engineers continue analzying the results of the recent thruster hot fire tests, both on the ground and on ISS.
The wording of this posting is intriguing, to say the least:
Teams are taking their time to analyze the results of recent docked hot-fire testing, finalize flight rationale for the spacecraft’s integrated propulsion system, and confirm system reliability ahead of Starliner’s return to Earth from the International Space Station.
Forward work for the team also includes finalizing the spacecraft’s undocking procedures and operational mitigations that could be used in flight, if needed, to build further confidence in the system. Meanwhile, Starliner ground and mission support teams are continuing to prepare for undocking by participating in integrated simulations with space station operations teams.
Following the completion of Starliner’s return planning, which is expected to continue into next week, more information will be shared about the agency’s return readiness review preparations and subsequent media briefing. As always, astronaut safety remains the top priority for both NASA and Boeing. [emphasis mine]
Up until this posting, I have been confidently predicting the two astronauts would return on Starliner. Now I am not so sure. It seems the data from the hot fire tests, especially the most recent tests on the Starliner capsule docked to ISS, was not as encouraging or did not confirm the conclusions drawn from the previous ground-based tests, and have required further analysis. This might not in the end make a difference, but the wording of this NASA’s press release, including the highlighted emphasis on astronaut safety, suggests NASA is at least considering the idea of bringing the astronauts home on a Dragon capsule.
The support of my readers through the years has given me the freedom and ability to analyze objectively the ongoing renaissance in space, as well as the cultural changes -- for good or ill -- that are happening across America. Four years ago, just before the 2020 election I wrote that Joe Biden's mental health was suspect. Only in the past two weeks has the mainstream media decided to recognize that basic fact.
Fourteen years ago I wrote that SLS and Orion were a bad ideas, a waste of money, would be years behind schedule, and better replaced by commercial private enterprise. Even today NASA and Congress refuses to recognize this reality.
In 2020 when the world panicked over COVID I wrote that the panic was unnecessary, that the virus was apparently simply a variation of the flu, that masks were not simply pointless but if worn incorrectly were a health threat, that the lockdowns were a disaster and did nothing to stop the spread of COVID. Only in the past year have some of our so-called experts in the health field have begun to recognize these facts.
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Starliner docked to ISS.
Someone at NASA getting cold feet? According to a NASA posting today, the review that was supposed to happen this week to determine a return date for Starliner and its two-astronaut crew has been postponed until next week as engineers continue analzying the results of the recent thruster hot fire tests, both on the ground and on ISS.
The wording of this posting is intriguing, to say the least:
Teams are taking their time to analyze the results of recent docked hot-fire testing, finalize flight rationale for the spacecraft’s integrated propulsion system, and confirm system reliability ahead of Starliner’s return to Earth from the International Space Station.
Forward work for the team also includes finalizing the spacecraft’s undocking procedures and operational mitigations that could be used in flight, if needed, to build further confidence in the system. Meanwhile, Starliner ground and mission support teams are continuing to prepare for undocking by participating in integrated simulations with space station operations teams.
Following the completion of Starliner’s return planning, which is expected to continue into next week, more information will be shared about the agency’s return readiness review preparations and subsequent media briefing. As always, astronaut safety remains the top priority for both NASA and Boeing. [emphasis mine]
Up until this posting, I have been confidently predicting the two astronauts would return on Starliner. Now I am not so sure. It seems the data from the hot fire tests, especially the most recent tests on the Starliner capsule docked to ISS, was not as encouraging or did not confirm the conclusions drawn from the previous ground-based tests, and have required further analysis. This might not in the end make a difference, but the wording of this NASA’s press release, including the highlighted emphasis on astronaut safety, suggests NASA is at least considering the idea of bringing the astronauts home on a Dragon capsule.
The support of my readers through the years has given me the freedom and ability to analyze objectively the ongoing renaissance in space, as well as the cultural changes -- for good or ill -- that are happening across America. Four years ago, just before the 2020 election I wrote that Joe Biden's mental health was suspect. Only in the past two weeks has the mainstream media decided to recognize that basic fact.
Fourteen years ago I wrote that SLS and Orion were a bad ideas, a waste of money, would be years behind schedule, and better replaced by commercial private enterprise. Even today NASA and Congress refuses to recognize this reality.
In 2020 when the world panicked over COVID I wrote that the panic was unnecessary, that the virus was apparently simply a variation of the flu, that masks were not simply pointless but if worn incorrectly were a health threat, that the lockdowns were a disaster and did nothing to stop the spread of COVID. Only in the past year have some of our so-called experts in the health field have begun to recognize these facts.
Your help allows me to do this kind of intelligent analysis. I take no advertising or sponsors, so my reporting isn't influenced by donations by established space or drug companies. Instead, I rely entirely on donations and subscriptions from my readers, which gives me the freedom to write what I think, unencumbered by outside influences.
Please consider supporting my work here at Behind the Black.
You can support me either by giving a one-time contribution or a regular subscription. There are five ways of doing so:
1. Zelle: This is the only internet method that charges no fees. All you have to do is use the Zelle link at your internet bank and give my name and email address (zimmerman at nasw dot org). What you donate is what I get.
2. Patreon: Go to my website there and pick one of five monthly subscription amounts, or by making a one-time donation.
3. A Paypal Donation:
5. Donate by check, payable to Robert Zimmerman and mailed to
Behind The Black
c/o Robert Zimmerman
P.O.Box 1262
Cortaro, AZ 85652
You can also support me by buying one of my books, as noted in the boxes interspersed throughout the webpage or shown in the menu above. And if you buy the books through the ebookit links, I get a larger cut and I get it sooner.
If the crew doesn’t come down in Starliner and the capsule makes a successful unmanned reentry its good and bad to Boeing. Good in that they didn’t burn up and bad in that they have to fly another demonstration flight to ISS out of their own pocket.
NASA and congress will not let Boeing cancel Starliner. They want something else besides Dragon and Boeing is too connected to fail.
Eric Berger’s take:
https://x.com/SciGuySpace/status/1819147216457794016?s=19
In an earlier post he states:
“For weeks and weeks I was 100 percent confident astronauts were coming back on Starliner. About 10 days ago I was 80-20 they were. Now, I am less than that. NASA needs to be more transparent.”
I don’t know… Boeing is publicly traded and fiduciary responsibility sometimes means cutting your losses. Boeing has zero chance of making a profit with Starliner.
Makes you wonder, and wow that blog post is puzzling.
“finalizing the spacecraft’s undocking procedures and operational mitigations that could be used in flight, if needed, to build further confidence in the system. ” What does that even mean?
They had undocking procedures. There is no way they flew without procedures for all phases. What is the issue with undocking? Undocking is hard?
‘Operational mitigations’ in flight for more confidence? Well that’s obscure. They should not be mitigating anything in flight, the confidence should be there already.
This bird was not ready for manned flight. All this should have been ironed out before Butch and Sunny live’s were at stake. Before.
Good link to a link Trent. $1.6 Billion loss… the political pressure to complete this mission must be staggering. I think at lease one person with authority in the return readiness review is not buying in, or has not been brought off. And I think maybe the information from all the unplanned post-flight ground testing may have been BS. That is, another corrupt institution flat-out LYING.
In his recent article https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/08/yes-nasa-really-could-bring-starliners-astronauts-back-on-crew-dragon/
Eric Berger claims “One informed source said it was greater than a 50-50 chance that the crew would come back on Dragon. Another source said it was significantly more likely than not they would. To be clear, NASA has not made a final decision.”
Would it be possible to use a crewed dragon as a supply mission and bring the guys back with it? I believe most of the storage is in the trunk under the capsule, ( I very much could be wrong …) but if there was some way to make it a 2 way journey, that would save some money….
Personally, I’m even avoiding flying in anything Boeing… The more information that trickles out, the more it seems that the whole company subscribes to a policy of cover ups and lies.
“Personally, I’m even avoiding flying in anything Boeing… The more information that trickles out, the more it seems that the whole company subscribes to a policy of cover ups and lies.”
All due to policies in embracing group think I.E. BIG GOVERNMENT concepts of bureaucratic operation apparently.
When things get too big and too far from their prime directive, take care of business, they become involved in an existential death spiral. When a government like culture is allowed to grow within a massive company and run by number crunchers and lawyers (Bureaucrats I.E. government) and the focus of that business or government is forgotten about, then you have the gifts of Socialism and the fear that it rightly brings to the surface.
I was not sure that you would fully realize or appreciate the comparison.
So, you and your family keep flying Boeing, as a matter of fact only fly Boeing, because that doubt that exists deep in your mind that twists your stomach is a well-deserved reminder of what you say you believe in.
And it flows through everyone’s life, whether they realize it or not. Ignorance surely IS bliss.
Marooned (1969)
“Do We have a Launch Window?”
https://youtu.be/yD1hbplN4DE?t=188
John,
You asked: “‘finalizing the spacecraft’s undocking procedures and operational mitigations that could be used in flight, if needed, to build further confidence in the system.’ What does that even mean?”
The problem is that one of the small thrusters on the service module is not functioning properly. They need to rewrite procedures to avoid or reduce the dependence on this thruster. They also found the possibility of overheating when the others of these thrusters are used, so they need to create procedures that assure they avoid the overheating. Likely, this mostly entails using these thrusters less than some scenarios would normally use them. They have to review all the scenarios, even the unlikely ones, in which they would use these thrusters and make sure that they are not used so often that they heat up too much. The mitigation is the prevention of the overheating, and it begins with the undocking and continues until separation of the service module from the capsule, and maybe a little longer, if the service module must continue some maneuvering away from the capsule.
The confidence should have been there, but then the anomaly occurred and confidence had to be regained through testing so that the engineers understand the problem, the temporary solution in operating the existing hardware, and how to solve the problem in future service modules.
“This bird was not ready for manned flight. All this should have been ironed out before Butch and Sunny live’s were at stake. Before.”
As I wrote the last time you said that: “I suspect that both Boeing and NASA had believed that they understood the thrusters by the end of the previous flight. I’ve been involved in tests that took us a few times to get it to work. Sometimes the engineers don’t realize just how little they understand their design. There is a bias that they know how it will work, that is why they design it that way, but the reality can be quite different.”
https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/boeing-completes-full-series-of-static-hot-fire-engine-burns-on-starliner-while-docked-to-iss/#comment-1504086
If Boeing and NASA did not believe that they understood the thrusters, then they were wrong to fly Starliner manned. If “astronaut safety remains the top priority for both NASA and Boeing,” then they wouldn’t have, if they didn’t believe in the spacecraft’s ability to work right.
That they are working so hard to mitigate the current problem and to prevent further problems should be reassuring, not frightening. Despite the pressure people are bearing down upon them, they are working cautiously, not recklessly or hurriedly.
___________________
From Robert‘s linked NASA blog:
The emphasis on astronaut safety may merely be a reassurance that their priorities are straight rather than Robert’s thinking that NASA is at least considering the idea of bringing the astronauts home on a Dragon capsule. But for the past week, Eric Berger has been thinking along these same lines.
From Tim‘s link, an Eric Berger article:
Last week, during their August 25th media briefing, Boeing and NASA sounded as though the ground tests gave them confidence that they understood the problems and that the vehicle could be flown safely home with both astronauts aboard. Is that still the case and Berger is misinterpreting what he has heard?
How does what we are reading and hearing this week fit in with what NASA and Boeing told us last week? For last weekend’s on-orbit hot-fire test, was the test plan inadequate for addressing some of NASA’s concerns, or is the data different than NASA expected to see?
The problem is in the service module, not in the pressurized capsule. As long as the service module can get the capsule into a safe reentry trajectory and then separate into its own trajectory, safe from collision with the capsule, then Starliner is safe to return its astronauts. One of these two areas must be where NASA engineers have their doubts, if Berger is right and they have doubts.
Also from Tim’s linked Berger article:
If Berger’s sources regarding this study are correct, then NASA did not wait for the ground testing results before making contingency plans for an alternate return for their astronauts, and between June and mid-July NASA’s confidence waned in Starliner and in Boeing’s ability to create procedures or methods to make the existing hardware work safely.
With this in mind, how unsafe was the journey to the ISS?
Once again, that they may be considering alternate return methods should be reassuring, not frightening. Despite the pressure the news media and others are bearing down upon them, they are working to be safe, not reckless.
I think many people are taking away the wrong ideas.
NASA has a dilemma There is never a perfect solution for a dilemma. Every course of action has a down side.
Do I take a chance (as tiny as it is) and bring them back on StarLiner? “What if” something goes wrong?
Do I destroy what’s left of Boeing’s credibility by asking SpaceX for a ride?
Can I deflect blame by creating an official committee to make recommendations?
Can I take early retirement right now?
@Cotour
It really is starting to get a bit boring that you have to turn my every comment into a personal attack on my outlook on life and my politics.
Do my personal opinions scare you so much that you feel you have to belittle my every word? It certainly seems so from where I am sitting. And that speaks a lot more about you than it does about me.
If I want to discuss politics, I will do so on a political related topic. This is a space related topic… It has bugger all to do with politics. I mearly floated the idea of a combined supply/rescue mission, and stated my lack of confidence in Boeing. I didn’t ask for a lecture about…. Well I’m not entirely sure what your point was….
And just on a side note…. Boeing has been around in one form or anther since 1916, and has always been based in the home of capitalism, the good ‘ol US of A.
Boeing has also gobbled up god only knows how many billions of honest US taxpayers money, and has proved time and time again that it is not fit for purpose in these recent times.
Perhaps a little more government oversite might not have been a bad thing? ;-)
Light and love!
This commentary (see the video at the end of the article) from CNBC is as interesting for what it *doesn’t* say about Boeing’s many problems as what it does, but I suppose that this is par for the course.
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/08/02/nasa-may-return-starliner-astronauts-on-boeing-or-spacex.htmlhttps://www.cnbc.com/2024/08/02/nasa-may-return-starliner-astronauts-on-boeing-or-spacex.html
While it does offer some useful background information for anyone new to his area, it’s not very good at providing perspective or connecting any dots. Among the takeaways is the idea that SpaceX’s big advantage is that it is vertically integrated and that poor Boeing has to rely upon subcontractors in different states*. No mention, of course, of how the Apollo program’s many contractors were geographically dispersed, lol. At the close of the report — the de rigueur upbeat ending — it is suggested that Boeing may somehow bounce back, but without giving any indication of how this might occur.
*Working in a less bureaucratic, mission-focused environment can’t offer any advantage, can it?
This is the level of “analysis” that is provided by the mainstream media. Very Sad.
PS — Has anyone else noted the passing of Lou Dobbs? Twenty-five years ago, he was a pioneer in the field of space journalism.
https://www.space.com/lou-dobbs-space-dot-com-co-founder-obituaryhttps://www.space.com/lou-dobbs-space-dot-com-co-founder-obituary
@Coutour again….
I haven’t been able to work out from your ramblings if you believe Boeing products to be safe or not….. But surely, given the context that I have expressed my skepticism of Boeing, to the point I avoid flying on their planes, your comment…
Quote “So, you and your family keep flying Boeing, as a matter of fact only fly Boeing”
Seems like some sort of …. Not a threat directly, but asking me to take myself and my family on a form of transportation I consider to be possibly unsafe, seems like an ugly place to be coming from. I have never wished harm, either physical or mental, to any member of BTB…. No matter how much we disagree…
Contour…. What did I ever do to you that you encourage me and my family to engage in activity I consider unsafe? Perhaps it’s time to have a long look in the mirror and revaluate your values. Just because I very much disagree with your political outlook ( as I do with pretty much every poster here… But we don’t bang on about it all the time!) , it doesn’t mean I hate you… Indeed, I would be happy to have a beer or a whisky with you on the porch and discuss stuff like grown-ups, no shouting, no fighting, and shaking hands at the end of the evening, agreeing to disagree…. I probably wouldn’t change your mind much, and you probably wouldn’t change mine much, but without a pushback from the other side, your views and arguments will stagnate and rot. Politics and world views need to be challenged, otherwise you end up with the very dictatorial government you so fear…
Worried about flying Boeing? Have a look at Airbus (Euroweenie vanity/welfare employment project) and their cockpit ergonomics or lack thereof.
Just one example: in autothrottle mode the thing changes engine power and the throttles don’t move! Yes, people have died.
Add the side sticks that aren’t interconnected (yes, this has killed hundreds of people).
Boeing got severe criticism about the 737 Max 8 over the MCAS which was just one of the six things that trim the airplane in pitch and which can runaway and it is a memory item to turn off the electric trim motor. The MCAS could have been done differently or better but the crashes were due flight crew inability. Note the Airbus A320 NEO had about the same problem because of the new engines but being a FBW aircraft the fix was put in the software *after some time*. There was no immediate grounding. I suspect they didn’t know of the problem until after the MAX crashes.
“Perhaps it’s time to have a long look in the mirror and revaluate your values. Just because I very much disagree with your political outlook ( as I do with pretty much every poster here… But we don’t bang on about it all the time!)”
First: I really only drink wine with dinner as far as alcohol goes.
Second: I have a customer, she has mental / health issues. She I believe can be manic depressive now and then. Sometimes everything is a problem or an issue.
A nice enough person but she can be a pain in the ass, but I deal with her in my unique manner. Compassionate and understanding but firm at times. Just so she attempts to see beyond her own little world where everything is a problem, caused by “Others” of course. She tells me one day while spending an inordinate amount of time in my situation which I allow because I know she needs human contact that is understanding to her situation. She detects my compassion, and I give that freely.
She says: “Everyone around here has an attitude and has a problem with me”.
And my response was: “And its them and not you, right?”. She stops.
This twisted her nipples a bit and she left in a bit of a huff.
The next time I saw her she must have thought a bit about what my point was: “Oh, its them and not you, right?”.
She got it. The next time I saw her she was well behaved, kept her conversation relevant and friendly (normal), did her business and went on her way.
Some people get it, and some people do not get it and continuously think that its everyone else and it’s not them and how they think and act.
Get it?
PS: I wish no harm or troubles for you and your family in the least. Live in peace and be prosperous.
I am starting to think someone is hiding something.
This craft is fully computer controlled and yet they don’t seem to have any possibility of flying without one thruster.
Space X can fly expecting to loose an engine or three but this craft can’t even undock without a full reprogramming and still might might not be able to finish the re entry.
We need an IMMEDIATE AIR-LAUNCH aerospaceplane rescue capability:
https://old.bitchute.com/video/00ugzXUWnMO3/
@ Contour….
Thank you for reassuring me that you don’t secretly wish for me and my family to be eaten by snakes! I actually wish nothing but peace and prosperity to you and yours… ( As I do to all who frequent this unique corner of the internet…. Come for the space news, stay to argue politics… Definitely unique!)
Again, I don’t really get the point of your parable regarding your “special needs” client… I’m guessing you are projecting her “it’s not me, it’s everyone else” attitude onto me?
If so, there are many rebuttals to that attitude…. By far the least being that it’s not just me who has my political outlook…. We are legion… It’s just I’m masochist enough to not mind engaging with a base that may be impossible to change, but still need reminding that your views are not universally held. Shouting into an echo chamber can only result in stagnation of mind, thought and deed. You guys REALLY need a token pinko commie to remind you there are other valid world views other than your own available.
I’m English, we tend to enjoy a drink… You should try talking bullcrap with a cold beer, watching the sun go down. It’s a great way to spend the evening… And it would provide the perfect environment to reiterate the point that you are not 100% correct in your views, I am not 100% correct in my own views… And that the truth sits somewhere in between…. Although, I know which side I’m leaning towards ;-)
Anyway….. Combined ISS resupply mission/rescue mission? Anyone?
And thanks @Mike Borgelt…. You have just made my mind up! It’s time to finally just buy that little rowing boat, give up flying altogether, and row back to the UK when needed… Less systems to bugger up, and with 2 late teen kids, a decent sized energy source.. I have a plan!
“By far the least being that it’s not just me who has my political outlook…. We are legion…”
Unfortunately for all involved all too true.
Yeah, she seems to have gotten it. She figured it out when someone reasonable stood in the way of her own illogic and self-destructive self-serving perspective that drives people away from her and not to her.
I wrote two pieces for you and your kind:
https://www.sigma3ioc.com/post/whats-coming-to-america-this
https://www.sigma3ioc.com/post/democrat-s-functionally-fascists
All I can do is try.
.
Good info Edward, had no idea that the thruster problem complicated undocking.
Quoteth of a quote, “”As I wrote the last time you said that: “I suspect that both Boeing and NASA had believed that they understood the thrusters by the end of the previous flight. I’ve been involved in tests that took us a few times to get it to work. Sometimes the engineers don’t realize just how little they understand their design. There is a bias that they know how it will work, that is why they design it that way, but the reality can be quite different.””
Yes, that is my point. Sometimes tests and fixes take a few times. Of course, that’s why you do it before flying people. Before. Last flight had issues, this flight has issues with people involved.
Boeing does have many subcontractors, but that is normal in the aerospace industry. What I have gathered from reading a lot about their issues with airliners is this: Boeing habitually screws their contractors. They rely on them and outsource all they can to them. Then they pay them the least they can and dump them as soon as it suits them. They treat them like commodities. They blame them when things go wrong. You are not as likely to do good work for someone who treats you like that. You don’t help them when they’re in trouble. You find a better customer and let the marginal players work for Boeing, as far as possible. At least, thats what I gather.
@Cotour…
If you actually wrote those pieces it wouldn’t surprise me for many reasons.
Before we put this conversation to bed, ( because it’s boring me, and this topic will drop off page 1 on my phone… ) , a couple of things to note….
Yes there is dissatisfaction in the UK, and immigration plays a part, but also the hopelessness for the underprivileged plays a big part in the anger. The cause of this can be placed square at the feet of 14 years of Tory cutbacks to public life. The closing of libraries, ( something the US has not embarked on… I believe the public library set up over there is excellent), the removal of any form of social safety net, the cutbacks made to so very many utilities that benefit the poor… The list is actually endless… And in the last 14 years the poor have grown VERY much poorer.. there was no such thing as foodbanks when I lived in the UK, now they are a lifeline for even teachers and nurses…. Sad, so sad.
Secondly, the flame that lit this powderkeg was the tradgic murder and wounding of small children by a youth with a knife…
Right wing media incorrectly reported he was a recent Muslim immigrant carrying out a terrorist act. The truth is that he is a black lad born in the UK, and was/is suffering from sevier mental issues. The guy is not evil, he is not even a Muslim, he is sick, let down by a healthcare system eroded by 14 years of Tory rule.
Do you see a pattern emerging? I’m guessing you can’t, because you are so wrapped up in your own mythology, and so frightened of the truth being that we are all created equal, but not all born into equality, so perhaps it’s not the downfall of society if we help each other out a little. I do believe that was Jesus’s outlook on life also.
One final little read for you..
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/06/us-neo-nazi-base-election-rinaldo-nazzaro
An interesting dive into how much of the right wing violence, in the UK and world wide is sponsored by Russians… Who would have thunk it? Russia, wanting to destabilize western democracies….. Heaven forbid!
My work on this thread is done…. I understand I will never convince you I am correct, but perhaps I can plant a small seed or 2 that might give you pause for thought… There are other opinions available, and if you take the time out of your day to ponder a little, you might realize that the sky isn’t falling in, not much will change if Harris gets in, and in 100 years we will both be dead…. Hopefully not in a Boeing air crash!
“Do you see a pattern emerging?”
Oh, I have been seeing a pattern emerging for a very long time.
Here is something related that I may or may not have written, sound or look at all familiar to you? Isn’t this one of the reasons you bugged out of England? That descending into chaos and political contention brought on by Liberal now Leftist policies in Britain and the EU did not happen by mistake.
WOW! KAMMY PICKS HER VP
“If you have ever had the thought that the Democrats might moderate a little and vector back to even the slightest hint of being about America or an American oriented perspective and not an anti-American radical political organization, well you would be dead wrong.”
https://www.sigma3ioc.com/post/wow-kammy-picks-her-vp
My mentally challenged customer got, she figured it out.
I cannot understand things for others, all I can do is keep trying.
In the end and in time if the trajectory of America and the world is allowed to continue down the radical road everyone will understand my points and observations whether they want to understand them or not.
No way around it, can’t go over it, can’t go under it. Gotta go through it.
Note: This now clearly without doubt exception radical Leftist Democrat presidential ticket V a without doubt fully American oriented ticket is actually the contest that should have been held between D.J. Trump and Bernie Sanders in 2016. But that was not acceptable. Sanders, who is a Communist would never have had a chance against Trump.
And if you remember Sanders, who is a Communist was not so unobtrusively replaced with next in line, Hillary Clinton (Ma Barker). Bernie got the phone call, maybe made by Nancy Pelosi? Maybe.
Stand by.
@ Cotour…. Erm….. The reason I bugged out of England is I met this Swedish girl…. And we decided together that the more socialist society over here made more sense than to stay in the UK…. We both agreed so, and the way my life is panning out proved us correct. I was belittled here for my using my share of the 18 months paid parental leave, “free” nursery care, “free” education, and a small payment towards my rent when I became a single parent… Oh, and let’s not forget very affordable health care… For example, I don’t pay 100 x the production price for my insulin… I don’t have to trade or sell insulin on Facebook, like so many of your fellow citizens do…. ( I acknowledge the things the US have got right, but having to resort to Facebook to source a life dependant drug Shame on your system of healthcare!)
All these benefits are null and void now my kids have grown up. I still pay high taxes that would make your eyes water, and I have become a net contributer rather than a net beneficiary… And that’s fine…. That’s how (gentle) socialism works. I know this is an alien concept for your American brain, and the very idea makes you froth at the mouth, but, and read this part carefully…. You either accept when I say that this system works… I know… I am boots on the ground .. I have been living it for over 2 decades and it has treated , and continues to treat me very well, OR you are calling me a lier… They are the only 2 options… And I’m telling you… I am not a lier.
As for the ins and outs and minutiae of US politics…. We in Europe take less notice than you obviously think…. We mostly just “shrug” and say…. “Whatever”…. Most are hoping your orange pensioner doesn’t get in again, he is a criminal, a fraud, a lier, a turncoat, and very old… Much better to have a younger president… Who is so far from “far left” it staggers belief you don’t see it! ( Again, you must be so scared of the truth you are just sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting “la la la” as loud as you can ), but Harris seems like a decent centrist candidate… And actually in with a very good chance of beating trump….
Just a comment or 2 on your writing style… If I make a point and you have a good argument against it, please answer me directly… Linking to some far right blog where you have 12 views is hardly having a free and open public argument is it?
I would appreciate it if you could address the points I have made in my last post or 2, directly, rather than hand waving and shouting “yes .. but!” , if you have an argument that rebukes any of my points… Let’s go Daddio!
And finally…. I am actually not surprised that the only person you actually got to subscribe to your loony tunes world view was a lady with mental health issues…. Go figure… ;-)
Ah, women and love.
Now I understand a bit better, a powerful motivator in all things.
For a while anyway until the smoke clears and reality sets in that is.
“Most are hoping your orange pensioner doesn’t get in again, he is a criminal, a fraud, a lier, a turncoat, and very old…”
*Trump takes care of business., it is very simple. That is what I want and need, and so do you and the rest of the EU. Benevolent but strong leadership is the hallmark of happiness, peace in the world and success. No one screws with a truly strong American president and there is peace in the world because of it. And if things are set off you do not want a weasel like Obama, Biden or Harris in the big seat.
” but Harris seems like a decent centrist candidate… And actually in with a very good chance of beating trump….”
*A “centrist” candidate? “Seems”? No, not even close, she is a full blood Leftist and “progressive”. She was rated theeee most Liberal (and that means radical Leftist in America) Democrat in the U.S. Senate. Not number 2 or number 42. Number one out of all 100 Senators. She beat out Bernie Sanders and he is a Communist!
Lee S: Politics really is not about any politician being honest or truthful. or having morality Politics has nothing to do with truth or morality.
People are about truth and morality, but not politicians and government. Politicians and government are about power and control, not truth and morality. Please do not confuse the two. Because when you do the exact opposite from what you have determined that you want, and needs comes to be.
Politicians, government and those in media, master manipulators all love this common Pedestrian realm characteristic. Love, love love it.
Democrats have chosen to go full throttle balls to the wall “progressive” and Leftist and I can only think that that was done because they have confidence in controlling the mechanisms of counting the results of the election. No other reason IMO.
She just picked an even more left leaning VP to make her seem centrist.
Now the media will follow her instructions and paint her as the most normal and centrist of all candidates.
They have also been caught paying influencers to make content attacking Trump.
Control the media and you can pull off anything. Without honest media getting the people all the real news ………
Calling Joseph. The new Reich rises.