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	Comments on: NASA lays out Artemis budget and plan to get astronauts to Moon	</title>
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	<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/nasa-lays-out-artemis-budget-and-plan-to-get-astronauts-to-moon/</link>
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		<title>
		By: sippin_bourbon		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/nasa-lays-out-artemis-budget-and-plan-to-get-astronauts-to-moon/#comment-1088891</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sippin_bourbon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2020 01:27:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=69358#comment-1088891</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;Apollo 13 used the same then proven maneuver to get home, didn’t they?&quot;

Not sure what your referring to LocalFluff.

Apollo 8 entered performed a braking burn to Lunar orbit and performed 10 laps, and then performed the TEI (Trans Earth Injection).

Apollo 13 went around the moon in a Free Return Trajectory, and never performed a braking burn to enter Lunar Orbit.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Apollo 13 used the same then proven maneuver to get home, didn’t they?&#8221;</p>
<p>Not sure what your referring to LocalFluff.</p>
<p>Apollo 8 entered performed a braking burn to Lunar orbit and performed 10 laps, and then performed the TEI (Trans Earth Injection).</p>
<p>Apollo 13 went around the moon in a Free Return Trajectory, and never performed a braking burn to enter Lunar Orbit.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Edward		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/nasa-lays-out-artemis-budget-and-plan-to-get-astronauts-to-moon/#comment-1088888</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Edward]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2020 00:59:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=69358#comment-1088888</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[pzatchok wrote: &quot;&lt;i&gt;Why are they wasting a flight just to fly around the moon with a crew?  Are they afraid that they have forgotten how to do it in the last 50 years?&lt;/i&gt;&quot; 

Actually, it is a bold move.  One would expect that this shakedown cruise would occur in Earth Orbit, but the plan laid out shows that only two orbits will be in Earth orbit before they perform the translunar injection burn.  

Page 15 of the PDF link (&quot;NASA’s Lunar Exploration Program Overview&quot;) in Robert&#039;s post says that NASA plans unmanned tests of the landers during the time frame of the first manned flight: 
&lt;blockquote&gt;Human exploration under the Artemis program will begin with the crewed flight test of SLS and Orion on Artemis II in 2023. In this same time frame, NASA and its commercial HLS partners also plan to conduct in-space flight testing of the lander system, including potential tests to the lunar surface.&lt;/blockquote&gt; 

This means that there won&#039;t be any landers available until the second manned flight.  Apollo 8 had originally been planned as the flight to check out the Apollo lunar lander, but the lander was not ready in time.  Apollo 8 came after the Apollo 7 checkout flight, so there was confidence that the Apollo Command and Service Modules were capable of a lunar flight.  

In my eye, NASA is back on track to being bold.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pzatchok wrote: &#8220;<i>Why are they wasting a flight just to fly around the moon with a crew?  Are they afraid that they have forgotten how to do it in the last 50 years?</i>&#8221; </p>
<p>Actually, it is a bold move.  One would expect that this shakedown cruise would occur in Earth Orbit, but the plan laid out shows that only two orbits will be in Earth orbit before they perform the translunar injection burn.  </p>
<p>Page 15 of the PDF link (&#8220;NASA’s Lunar Exploration Program Overview&#8221;) in Robert&#8217;s post says that NASA plans unmanned tests of the landers during the time frame of the first manned flight: </p>
<blockquote><p>Human exploration under the Artemis program will begin with the crewed flight test of SLS and Orion on Artemis II in 2023. In this same time frame, NASA and its commercial HLS partners also plan to conduct in-space flight testing of the lander system, including potential tests to the lunar surface.</p></blockquote>
<p>This means that there won&#8217;t be any landers available until the second manned flight.  Apollo 8 had originally been planned as the flight to check out the Apollo lunar lander, but the lander was not ready in time.  Apollo 8 came after the Apollo 7 checkout flight, so there was confidence that the Apollo Command and Service Modules were capable of a lunar flight.  </p>
<p>In my eye, NASA is back on track to being bold.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Skunk Bucket		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/nasa-lays-out-artemis-budget-and-plan-to-get-astronauts-to-moon/#comment-1088860</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Skunk Bucket]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2020 13:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=69358#comment-1088860</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Of course if Biden wins and the Democrats fund Artemis, the landing (if it indeed happens within four years) will actually happen during a HARRIS presidency.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course if Biden wins and the Democrats fund Artemis, the landing (if it indeed happens within four years) will actually happen during a HARRIS presidency.</p>
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		<title>
		By: LocalFluff		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/nasa-lays-out-artemis-budget-and-plan-to-get-astronauts-to-moon/#comment-1088847</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LocalFluff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2020 08:00:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=69358#comment-1088847</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@pzatchok
Yeah, it&#039;s crazy. Apollo 8 was motivated because they went much further than any humans had before (and Apollo 13 used the same then proven maneuver to get home, didn&#039;t they?) And for the prestige of the space race at the time.

But now those poor astronauts, if they survive the SLS fraud, will be asked:
&quot;- Where did you go?
- Nowhere!
- Okay... hooray not so much.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@pzatchok<br />
Yeah, it&#8217;s crazy. Apollo 8 was motivated because they went much further than any humans had before (and Apollo 13 used the same then proven maneuver to get home, didn&#8217;t they?) And for the prestige of the space race at the time.</p>
<p>But now those poor astronauts, if they survive the SLS fraud, will be asked:<br />
&#8220;- Where did you go?<br />
&#8211; Nowhere!<br />
&#8211; Okay&#8230; hooray not so much.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: pzatchok		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/nasa-lays-out-artemis-budget-and-plan-to-get-astronauts-to-moon/#comment-1088838</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pzatchok]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2020 05:41:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=69358#comment-1088838</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Why are they wasting a flight just to fly around the moon with a crew?

Are they afraid that they have forgotten how to do it in the last 50 years?

Send the first one into Lunar orbit as a both a relay station and maybe an emergency supply depot.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why are they wasting a flight just to fly around the moon with a crew?</p>
<p>Are they afraid that they have forgotten how to do it in the last 50 years?</p>
<p>Send the first one into Lunar orbit as a both a relay station and maybe an emergency supply depot.</p>
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		<title>
		By: geoffc		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/nasa-lays-out-artemis-budget-and-plan-to-get-astronauts-to-moon/#comment-1088807</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[geoffc]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2020 19:51:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=69358#comment-1088807</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@steve richter - First stages need a lot of thrust for a short period of time (2 min run time or so).  

Solids can do that better than liquid fueled.  SRB is 2.8 million lbs of thrust (EACH!)  That is, as they say, a crap load of thrust. 

F-9 is only 1.8 million lbs of thrust or so and that uses 9 engines.  The largest thrust engines were probably the F-1 (1.5 going to 1.8 million lbs thrust) and mayeb the RD-170 (1.8 million lbs). 

So to replace an SRB you need either a new liquid engine (since F-1 is long since out ofo service and RD-170&#039;s I suppose are technically available, not sure they are actually being manufactured, but the 180, 190, and 171 are all variants) on the scale of the F-1 or a cluster of smaller ones.

Also, the military likes Solid boosters for ICBM&#039;s and they like to keep the companies in business since you don&#039;t really use up yur ICBM&#039;s all that often (Thank G-d!).  In some ways, Vega using a solid is to help keep the missile manufacturers open in Europe...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@steve richter &#8211; First stages need a lot of thrust for a short period of time (2 min run time or so).  </p>
<p>Solids can do that better than liquid fueled.  SRB is 2.8 million lbs of thrust (EACH!)  That is, as they say, a crap load of thrust. </p>
<p>F-9 is only 1.8 million lbs of thrust or so and that uses 9 engines.  The largest thrust engines were probably the F-1 (1.5 going to 1.8 million lbs thrust) and mayeb the RD-170 (1.8 million lbs). </p>
<p>So to replace an SRB you need either a new liquid engine (since F-1 is long since out ofo service and RD-170&#8217;s I suppose are technically available, not sure they are actually being manufactured, but the 180, 190, and 171 are all variants) on the scale of the F-1 or a cluster of smaller ones.</p>
<p>Also, the military likes Solid boosters for ICBM&#8217;s and they like to keep the companies in business since you don&#8217;t really use up yur ICBM&#8217;s all that often (Thank G-d!).  In some ways, Vega using a solid is to help keep the missile manufacturers open in Europe&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Steve Richter		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/nasa-lays-out-artemis-budget-and-plan-to-get-astronauts-to-moon/#comment-1088803</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Richter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2020 18:19:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=69358#comment-1088803</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[is SLS the only rocket in use/development today which uses solid rocket boosters?  Does China use SRB in the long march rockets?    An SRB can lift more weight into space than liquid fuel?  

Just thinking that if SRB is/could be superior technology, it is worthwhile for NASA to spend what it takes to get such a system operational.

( eager to read a Bob review of the Challenger documentary. )]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>is SLS the only rocket in use/development today which uses solid rocket boosters?  Does China use SRB in the long march rockets?    An SRB can lift more weight into space than liquid fuel?  </p>
<p>Just thinking that if SRB is/could be superior technology, it is worthwhile for NASA to spend what it takes to get such a system operational.</p>
<p>( eager to read a Bob review of the Challenger documentary. )</p>
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