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	Comments on: New details emerge of Schiaparelli crash site	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Edward		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/new-details-emerge-of-schiaparelli-crash-site/#comment-942288</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Edward]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Oct 2016 00:06:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://behindtheblack.com/?p=42440#comment-942288</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks, Robert, for the link.  I found a little more on the same site: &quot;Nine CHT-400 hydrazine thrusters (400 Newton thrust each) then begin to fire in pulse modulation ...&quot; ( http://exploration.esa.int/mars/58425-preparing-to-land-on-mars/ ) 

From this thruster type, I found more information: &quot;400 N Chemical Monopropellant Hydrazine Thruster&quot; 
http://www.space-propulsion.com/spacecraft-propulsion/hydrazine-thrusters/400n-thruster.html

Thus, the CHT-400 is a monopropellant thruster.  There may not have been much of a spectacular explosion, after all, outside of the dust, sand, dirt, and mangled parts that were kicked up (and bursting hydrazine and helium tanks).  

Since there was so much blackening in the photographs, I expected that the thrusters were hypergolic and had charred a lot of material as it sprayed away.  A bit disappointing, but now I wonder about the darkened material.  I am going to hypothesize that the material underground is darker than the surface material.  In a way similar to the Moon having bright streaks radiating away from impacts, Mars may form dark streaks.  

(Come to think about it, black char is usually the result of heat oxidizing surface material, but there isn&#039;t much free oxygen for anything to char on Mars.  Earthly experience may not be as useful on other planets as we expect it to be.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Robert, for the link.  I found a little more on the same site: &#8220;Nine CHT-400 hydrazine thrusters (400 Newton thrust each) then begin to fire in pulse modulation &#8230;&#8221; ( <a href="http://exploration.esa.int/mars/58425-preparing-to-land-on-mars/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://exploration.esa.int/mars/58425-preparing-to-land-on-mars/</a> ) </p>
<p>From this thruster type, I found more information: &#8220;400 N Chemical Monopropellant Hydrazine Thruster&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://www.space-propulsion.com/spacecraft-propulsion/hydrazine-thrusters/400n-thruster.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.space-propulsion.com/spacecraft-propulsion/hydrazine-thrusters/400n-thruster.html</a></p>
<p>Thus, the CHT-400 is a monopropellant thruster.  There may not have been much of a spectacular explosion, after all, outside of the dust, sand, dirt, and mangled parts that were kicked up (and bursting hydrazine and helium tanks).  </p>
<p>Since there was so much blackening in the photographs, I expected that the thrusters were hypergolic and had charred a lot of material as it sprayed away.  A bit disappointing, but now I wonder about the darkened material.  I am going to hypothesize that the material underground is darker than the surface material.  In a way similar to the Moon having bright streaks radiating away from impacts, Mars may form dark streaks.  </p>
<p>(Come to think about it, black char is usually the result of heat oxidizing surface material, but there isn&#8217;t much free oxygen for anything to char on Mars.  Earthly experience may not be as useful on other planets as we expect it to be.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: wayne		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/new-details-emerge-of-schiaparelli-crash-site/#comment-942281</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[wayne]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Oct 2016 23:08:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://behindtheblack.com/?p=42440#comment-942281</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks Mr. Z.

All this stuff, is amazing.

A repeat from me, but a good one; 
7 Minutes of Terror: 
Curiosity Rover&#039;s Risky Mars Landing
https://youtu.be/h2I8AoB1xgU

Excellent animation/explanation of a truly incredible piece of engineering.
 (Rube Goldberg Meets Flash Gordon, On Mars, In Space!)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Mr. Z.</p>
<p>All this stuff, is amazing.</p>
<p>A repeat from me, but a good one;<br />
7 Minutes of Terror:<br />
Curiosity Rover&#8217;s Risky Mars Landing<br />
<a href="https://youtu.be/h2I8AoB1xgU" rel="nofollow ugc">https://youtu.be/h2I8AoB1xgU</a></p>
<p>Excellent animation/explanation of a truly incredible piece of engineering.<br />
 (Rube Goldberg Meets Flash Gordon, On Mars, In Space!)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Robert Zimmerman		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/new-details-emerge-of-schiaparelli-crash-site/#comment-942277</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert Zimmerman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Oct 2016 22:45:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://behindtheblack.com/?p=42440#comment-942277</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/new-details-emerge-of-schiaparelli-crash-site/#comment-942276&quot;&gt;Robert Zimmerman&lt;/a&gt;.

More &lt;a href=&quot;http://exploration.esa.int/mars/58425-preparing-to-land-on-mars/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Schiaparelli&#039;s propulsion system comprises three groups of three thrusters, attached to the outer rim of the surface platform and spaced at 120-degree intervals. The surface platform also carries three spherical hydrazine tanks, each with a capacity of 16 kilograms.
&lt;br /&gt;
These are linked individually to each thruster cluster but separated from each other to prevent any flow from one tank into another. A single pressure tank filled with helium supplies the gas pressure for feeding fuel to the thrusters. A complex system of valves, and flow and pressure controllers, ensures that each thruster cluster exerts exactly the same force during the final descent phase.&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/new-details-emerge-of-schiaparelli-crash-site/#comment-942276">Robert Zimmerman</a>.</p>
<p>More <a href="http://exploration.esa.int/mars/58425-preparing-to-land-on-mars/" rel="nofollow">here</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>Schiaparelli&#8217;s propulsion system comprises three groups of three thrusters, attached to the outer rim of the surface platform and spaced at 120-degree intervals. The surface platform also carries three spherical hydrazine tanks, each with a capacity of 16 kilograms.<br />
<br />
These are linked individually to each thruster cluster but separated from each other to prevent any flow from one tank into another. A single pressure tank filled with helium supplies the gas pressure for feeding fuel to the thrusters. A complex system of valves, and flow and pressure controllers, ensures that each thruster cluster exerts exactly the same force during the final descent phase.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>
		By: Robert Zimmerman		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/new-details-emerge-of-schiaparelli-crash-site/#comment-942276</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert Zimmerman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Oct 2016 22:42:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://behindtheblack.com/?p=42440#comment-942276</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/new-details-emerge-of-schiaparelli-crash-site/#comment-942274&quot;&gt;wayne&lt;/a&gt;.

Wayne and Edward: From the &lt;a href=&quot;http://exploration.esa.int/mars/47852-entry-descent-and-landing-demonstrator-module/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ExoMars&lt;/a&gt; website, the propulsion system is made of &quot;3 clusters of 3 hydrazine engines (400 N each), operated in pulse-modulation.&quot;

I should add that the website repeated refers to this as liquid propellant.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/new-details-emerge-of-schiaparelli-crash-site/#comment-942274">wayne</a>.</p>
<p>Wayne and Edward: From the <a href="http://exploration.esa.int/mars/47852-entry-descent-and-landing-demonstrator-module/" rel="nofollow">ExoMars</a> website, the propulsion system is made of &#8220;3 clusters of 3 hydrazine engines (400 N each), operated in pulse-modulation.&#8221;</p>
<p>I should add that the website repeated refers to this as liquid propellant.</p>
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		<title>
		By: wayne		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/new-details-emerge-of-schiaparelli-crash-site/#comment-942274</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[wayne]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Oct 2016 22:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://behindtheblack.com/?p=42440#comment-942274</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Edward-- Good one!

(It doesn&#039;t specify at wiki whether it&#039;s mono/bi/tri (questioning) or what &#038; haven&#039;t been to the ESA website.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Edward&#8211; Good one!</p>
<p>(It doesn&#8217;t specify at wiki whether it&#8217;s mono/bi/tri (questioning) or what &amp; haven&#8217;t been to the ESA website.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Edward		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/new-details-emerge-of-schiaparelli-crash-site/#comment-942272</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Edward]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Oct 2016 22:18:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://behindtheblack.com/?p=42440#comment-942272</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If the retro rockets were hydrazine monopropellant, then there may not have been a fireball, as the atmosphere is mostly CO2.  However, if there were a hypergolic oxidizer, such as nitrogen tetroxide, then Schiaparelli would likely have made a spectacle rarely seen on Mars.  

Which raises the philosophical question: if a lander crashes on Mars, and no one is there to see the fireball, did the price of tea in China increase or decrease?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the retro rockets were hydrazine monopropellant, then there may not have been a fireball, as the atmosphere is mostly CO2.  However, if there were a hypergolic oxidizer, such as nitrogen tetroxide, then Schiaparelli would likely have made a spectacle rarely seen on Mars.  </p>
<p>Which raises the philosophical question: if a lander crashes on Mars, and no one is there to see the fireball, did the price of tea in China increase or decrease?</p>
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		<title>
		By: wayne		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/new-details-emerge-of-schiaparelli-crash-site/#comment-942202</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[wayne]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Oct 2016 17:26:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://behindtheblack.com/?p=42440#comment-942202</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[BSJ-- thanks. (I haven&#039;t delved into this at all.)

Cursory search at Wikipedia, (sorry) &#038; their Schiaparelli page appears well-done &#038; up-to-date.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schiaparelli_EDM_lander

&#062;Hydrazine for the retro-rockets.

[ALL this stuff, is Amazing. Even when not entirely successful.]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BSJ&#8211; thanks. (I haven&#8217;t delved into this at all.)</p>
<p>Cursory search at Wikipedia, (sorry) &amp; their Schiaparelli page appears well-done &amp; up-to-date.</p>
<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schiaparelli_EDM_lander" rel="nofollow ugc">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schiaparelli_EDM_lander</a></p>
<p>&gt;Hydrazine for the retro-rockets.</p>
<p>[ALL this stuff, is Amazing. Even when not entirely successful.]</p>
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		<title>
		By: BSJ		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/new-details-emerge-of-schiaparelli-crash-site/#comment-942197</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BSJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Oct 2016 16:54:19 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[The Retro rockets fired well short of the proscribed amount of time. The remaining fuel would have gone BANG upon impact...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Retro rockets fired well short of the proscribed amount of time. The remaining fuel would have gone BANG upon impact&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wayne		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/new-details-emerge-of-schiaparelli-crash-site/#comment-942156</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wayne]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Oct 2016 15:01:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://behindtheblack.com/?p=42440#comment-942156</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Localfluff does have a certain &quot;flair,&quot; with the language,  which I do enjoy at times!

referencing the fuel on-board the lander;
What were they using &#038; what is the explosion-risk, given a &quot;catastrophic failure?&quot;

Isn&#039;t that a bird I see flying in the vicinity of the crash site? (Har...)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Localfluff does have a certain &#8220;flair,&#8221; with the language,  which I do enjoy at times!</p>
<p>referencing the fuel on-board the lander;<br />
What were they using &amp; what is the explosion-risk, given a &#8220;catastrophic failure?&#8221;</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t that a bird I see flying in the vicinity of the crash site? (Har&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Gealon		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/new-details-emerge-of-schiaparelli-crash-site/#comment-942154</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gealon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Oct 2016 14:45:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://behindtheblack.com/?p=42440#comment-942154</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[LocalFluff has succeeded in making me chuckle.

However I must point out, there&#039;s still the Phobosians to worry about.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LocalFluff has succeeded in making me chuckle.</p>
<p>However I must point out, there&#8217;s still the Phobosians to worry about.</p>
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		<title>
		By: LocalFluff		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/new-details-emerge-of-schiaparelli-crash-site/#comment-942141</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LocalFluff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Oct 2016 13:39:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://behindtheblack.com/?p=42440#comment-942141</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[ESA is making progress. They found the crash site of this &quot;lander&quot; within days. A great improvement from the last attempt when it took several years to find the landing site of the failed spacecraft. The crash site of the ExoMars rover in 2018 is expected to be found within hours. Great progress!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ESA is making progress. They found the crash site of this &#8220;lander&#8221; within days. A great improvement from the last attempt when it took several years to find the landing site of the failed spacecraft. The crash site of the ExoMars rover in 2018 is expected to be found within hours. Great progress!</p>
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		<title>
		By: BSJ		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/new-details-emerge-of-schiaparelli-crash-site/#comment-942133</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BSJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Oct 2016 12:47:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://behindtheblack.com/?p=42440#comment-942133</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The onboard fuel would have added to the &quot;explosive&quot; force of the ejecta as well.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The onboard fuel would have added to the &#8220;explosive&#8221; force of the ejecta as well.</p>
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