Comments on: Scientists: Martian gullies formed by CO2 frost, not water flows

By: Robert Zimmerman

Robert Zimmerman — Fri, 16 May 2025 16:05:22 +0000

In reply to David Ross. David Ross: Point taken. Thanks for adding the important time element. Regardless, I think Mars' researchers are too inclined to apply Earth-familiar processes to Mars in their long term theories about the geological processes that formed its surface. There is more here than meets the eye, and the evidence suggests strongly that ice-glacier processes might have played a major if not entire part in creating those "vast dry streambeds" from the Noachian and Hesperian.

By: David Ross

David Ross — Fri, 16 May 2025 15:40:46 +0000

To be the annoying replyguy, I do want to add some context, partly to Max’s comment but mostly to the OP.
We are, for this post, talking about the recent gullies: not the vast dry streambeds held over from Mars’ ancient times.
Mars’ proposed wet era is (aptly) named the Noachian, lasting 4.1Gya – 3.7Gya. Then, Hesperian, 3.7-3Gya. The paper mentions only the “Amazonian” which Mars is still in, presumably until the Sun gets warm enough some billion or two years in our Sun’s future.
In fact the paper concentrates just in the last few million years. So the “distant past” and the “ancient flows” remain in play for Noachian and probably also Hesperian.

By: David Ross

David Ross — Fri, 16 May 2025 15:31:16 +0000

Max, you lost me here: “Possibly deposited by the Local Fluff in a supernova event cloud that passed through our solar system, converting most of earths thick oxygen atmosphere into water, killing the dinosaurs and putting us into an Ice Age.” – for a number of reasons.

The nonavian dinosaurs’ extinction correlates too well with the Chicxulub impact, which was last I heard a C-type chondrite. Also a cloud of ionic hydrogen would have to be thick indeed to interact effectively with Earth’s oxygen and rain it out. How does it even get into the 1 AU range of our star?

By: Max

Max — Wed, 14 May 2025 18:46:17 +0000

Interesting, dry ice answers some questions, but creates more. There is so much we do not yet know. Even with the abundance of rovers on the surface, we’ve learned very little. As you say, the uncertainty of Science.

The reporter on the radio was discussing last night the admission of most scientist that the erosion they see on Mars surface could not of happened without the presence of liquid water. They just don’t see a way around it. (again with the possibility of life scenario)
I did not locate the recent article he was speaking of, but I did find an older one that has 114 references to other studies that they draw from.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41561-023-01349-2

In essence, 3 billion years ago, mars had a thicker atmosphere with weather. All blown away now by the solar wind, due to low gravity allowing the atmosphere to extend beyond its gravitational containment.
It’s good to see that someone is thinking outside the box on other possible scenarios for the erosion. I look forward to Mars occupation with core samples and definitive results.

My personal hypothesis is that Mars once looked like Europa, covered in ice a mile or more thick. (The ice on the poles is all that remains above ground)
Possibly deposited by the Local Fluff in a supernova event cloud that passed through our solar system, converting most of earths thick oxygen atmosphere into water, killing the dinosaurs and putting us into an Ice Age.
The same event darkened our Sun for hundreds of years, depositing material on all of the planets and their moons.

So what created all be erosion and canyons on Mars? The astroid that created Helenas basin was violent enough to create the super volcanoes with the bulge on the planet on the far side. A heating event under the ice containing the pressure and liquid to run violently in places, with escaping water and gas refreezing to the surface adding to glacier movement that pushed mountain ranges out of place. Add to that the ejects from the impact and all the volcanic dust thickening the atmosphere covering the planet depositing on the ice with material hundreds of feet thick.
This seems like a one size fits all scenario, but how do you get the largest canyon in the solar system without a lake or ocean with shoreline on it’s far end? Did a void open up and 2 miles of material just drop? Not likely, but the erosion in this area is unlike anything on earth.
I love a mystery.