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	Comments on: SpaceX declines to shift Starlink satellite to avoid collision	</title>
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	<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/spacex-declines-to-shift-starlink-satellite-to-avoid-collision/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 03 Sep 2019 23:41:04 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Edward		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/spacex-declines-to-shift-starlink-satellite-to-avoid-collision/#comment-1070434</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Edward]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Sep 2019 23:41:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=60511#comment-1070434</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[DougSpace asked: &quot;&lt;i&gt;How does 50 million square meters translates into a 1:1,000 chance of collision?&lt;/i&gt;&quot;  Andi did a calculation.  

It isn&#039;t just an &quot;area&quot; concern, because the timing is also important.  If one satellite arrives before the other, then they will also miss each other.  It requires a calculation of a volume.  Also, Andi, you need to make the calculation for radii of both satellites, not just one, but assuming that both are the same size then I think the calculation gives r = 44.7 m, which is still large.  

The rules, however, use specific ovoid dimensions, because orbital perturbations are difficult to predict and calculate.  Much of what they use for chance-of-collision calculation is rule of thumb rather than comparison of satellite size.  Part of the reason is that satellites rarely are spherical or cubical but have protrusions such as antennas and solar panels.  

Considering that there are quite a few thousand satellites in low Earth orbit, both active and dead, satellite operators are becoming more and more concerned with the consequences of collisions and the Kessler effect (or syndrome), as exaggerated in the movie &quot;Gravity.&quot;  With so many objects in orbit, there are plenty of opportunities for collision, and even more if you include the tiny debris that cannot be tracked.  

An example is the collision in 2009 between an active Iridium and a dead Kosmos satellite.  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_satellite_collision#Cause]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DougSpace asked: &#8220;<i>How does 50 million square meters translates into a 1:1,000 chance of collision?</i>&#8221;  Andi did a calculation.  </p>
<p>It isn&#8217;t just an &#8220;area&#8221; concern, because the timing is also important.  If one satellite arrives before the other, then they will also miss each other.  It requires a calculation of a volume.  Also, Andi, you need to make the calculation for radii of both satellites, not just one, but assuming that both are the same size then I think the calculation gives r = 44.7 m, which is still large.  </p>
<p>The rules, however, use specific ovoid dimensions, because orbital perturbations are difficult to predict and calculate.  Much of what they use for chance-of-collision calculation is rule of thumb rather than comparison of satellite size.  Part of the reason is that satellites rarely are spherical or cubical but have protrusions such as antennas and solar panels.  </p>
<p>Considering that there are quite a few thousand satellites in low Earth orbit, both active and dead, satellite operators are becoming more and more concerned with the consequences of collisions and the Kessler effect (or syndrome), as exaggerated in the movie &#8220;Gravity.&#8221;  With so many objects in orbit, there are plenty of opportunities for collision, and even more if you include the tiny debris that cannot be tracked.  </p>
<p>An example is the collision in 2009 between an active Iridium and a dead Kosmos satellite.<br />
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_satellite_collision#Cause" rel="nofollow ugc">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_satellite_collision#Cause</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Andi		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/spacex-declines-to-shift-starlink-satellite-to-avoid-collision/#comment-1070431</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Sep 2019 20:52:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=60511#comment-1070431</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s an interesting exercise. Assuming that both satellites are spheres with radius r (meters), the center of one would have to come within 2r of the center of the other to have a collision. The area of this danger region is therefore pi*(2r)^2 square meters.

A four km radius gives a cross-sectional area of pi * 4000^2 square meters

In order to have a 1:1000 chance of collision, that would mean that [pi*(2r)^2] / [pi * 4000^2] = 1/1000.

Solving for r gives r = 4000 / [ 2 * sqrt(1000) ] = 63.2 m radius.

That&#039;s an awfully big satellite!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s an interesting exercise. Assuming that both satellites are spheres with radius r (meters), the center of one would have to come within 2r of the center of the other to have a collision. The area of this danger region is therefore pi*(2r)^2 square meters.</p>
<p>A four km radius gives a cross-sectional area of pi * 4000^2 square meters</p>
<p>In order to have a 1:1000 chance of collision, that would mean that [pi*(2r)^2] / [pi * 4000^2] = 1/1000.</p>
<p>Solving for r gives r = 4000 / [ 2 * sqrt(1000) ] = 63.2 m radius.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s an awfully big satellite!</p>
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		<title>
		By: DougSpace		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/spacex-declines-to-shift-starlink-satellite-to-avoid-collision/#comment-1070423</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DougSpace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Sep 2019 15:07:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=60511#comment-1070423</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[https://spacenews.com/esa-spacecraft-dodges-potential-collision-with-starlink-satellite/

&quot;The two satellites were predicted to come within about four kilometers of each other&quot;

Four km radius is a tremendously large cross-sectional area (50 million square meters).  How does 50 million square meters translates into a 1:1,000 chance of collision?  I have to presume that satellites come this close to each other all the time.  So, from the get-go, something doesn&#039;t smell right.  

SpaceX&#039;s four satellites at this level probably don&#039;t make up a large percentage of the satellites in this region).  So, why is ESA complaining about what appears to be an extremely low probability?  And we have to consider the possibility that SpaceX was looking at precedence.  Are they willing to move any of their thousands of future satellites every time someone else asks them too when SpaceX&#039;s own algorithms say that there is not a sufficient risk of collision?  SpaceX needs to clarify the situation.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="https://spacenews.com/esa-spacecraft-dodges-potential-collision-with-starlink-satellite/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://spacenews.com/esa-spacecraft-dodges-potential-collision-with-starlink-satellite/</a></p>
<p>&#8220;The two satellites were predicted to come within about four kilometers of each other&#8221;</p>
<p>Four km radius is a tremendously large cross-sectional area (50 million square meters).  How does 50 million square meters translates into a 1:1,000 chance of collision?  I have to presume that satellites come this close to each other all the time.  So, from the get-go, something doesn&#8217;t smell right.  </p>
<p>SpaceX&#8217;s four satellites at this level probably don&#8217;t make up a large percentage of the satellites in this region).  So, why is ESA complaining about what appears to be an extremely low probability?  And we have to consider the possibility that SpaceX was looking at precedence.  Are they willing to move any of their thousands of future satellites every time someone else asks them too when SpaceX&#8217;s own algorithms say that there is not a sufficient risk of collision?  SpaceX needs to clarify the situation.</p>
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		<title>
		By: mpthompson		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/spacex-declines-to-shift-starlink-satellite-to-avoid-collision/#comment-1070411</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mpthompson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Sep 2019 03:54:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=60511#comment-1070411</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&#062; The article is clearly spun to make SpaceX look bad...

My take as well. Best to get the other side of the story before forming a strong opinion.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; The article is clearly spun to make SpaceX look bad&#8230;</p>
<p>My take as well. Best to get the other side of the story before forming a strong opinion.</p>
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		<title>
		By: avg_joe		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/spacex-declines-to-shift-starlink-satellite-to-avoid-collision/#comment-1070403</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[avg_joe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Sep 2019 00:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=60511#comment-1070403</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think the story is spun. Too many things don&#039;t make sense or were left out. Spacex launched 60 satellites. 57 moved from the 320km initial orbit to 550km. This has been established. Three failed to respond and 2 were to be used to test de-orbiting. To say that Spacex &quot;refused&quot; to alter the course of one of the 2 test units seems ludicrous. They were destined for destruction regardless. The remaining 3 in the 320km orbit were non-functional. More than likely it was one of these that were the problem and therefore, Spacex couldn&#039;t move it (having no control). That&#039;s not the same as &quot;refusing&quot;. 
The article suggests that Spacex risked blowing up a very expensive satellite and raining debris over the 320km orbit... to be obstinate? There was certainly no financial incentive to take such a risk and the avoidance maneuver would have made a great test. 

... unless this was one of the dead satellites and Spacex couldn&#039;t move it and the original article was basic B.S.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the story is spun. Too many things don&#8217;t make sense or were left out. Spacex launched 60 satellites. 57 moved from the 320km initial orbit to 550km. This has been established. Three failed to respond and 2 were to be used to test de-orbiting. To say that Spacex &#8220;refused&#8221; to alter the course of one of the 2 test units seems ludicrous. They were destined for destruction regardless. The remaining 3 in the 320km orbit were non-functional. More than likely it was one of these that were the problem and therefore, Spacex couldn&#8217;t move it (having no control). That&#8217;s not the same as &#8220;refusing&#8221;.<br />
The article suggests that Spacex risked blowing up a very expensive satellite and raining debris over the 320km orbit&#8230; to be obstinate? There was certainly no financial incentive to take such a risk and the avoidance maneuver would have made a great test. </p>
<p>&#8230; unless this was one of the dead satellites and Spacex couldn&#8217;t move it and the original article was basic B.S.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mike Borgelt		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/spacex-declines-to-shift-starlink-satellite-to-avoid-collision/#comment-1070400</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Borgelt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Sep 2019 22:15:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://behindtheblack.com/?p=60511#comment-1070400</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[1 in 1000? I can see why SpaceX didn&#039;t bother.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1 in 1000? I can see why SpaceX didn&#8217;t bother.</p>
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