Thank you for continually redefining efficiency so that it is difficult to discuss the topic with you.

“By the way, these “spin-launch” people weren’t too smart to fake false results. See how the missile flips over and it is already going off at an angle.”

On further review of SpinLaunch’s claims, I have realized that they did not make the claims that you said they falsified. Their claims were that they could spin up the projectile and release it with precision timing that sends it through the exit at supersonic speeds, and that they recovered the projectile in a condition satisfactory for future use. This is good for a proof of concept test. Proper trajectory, expected speed, stopping the tumble, firing rockets for orbital insertion, etc. did not seem to be claimed by the company, but one claim was that there is a lot of work left to do to accomplish orbital launches. Perhaps they meant that these were some of the issues that need to be addressed.

From the article:

There is a lot of work to do before non-rocket-powered space launches become a reality, but last month SpinLaunch took an important step forward. On October 22, the company completed its first test flight at its Spaceport America base in New Mexico, successfully launching a prototype vehicle from its Suborbital Accelerator which reached supersonic speeds and was recovered for reuse thereafter.

Not claimed by the company, and not mentioned by the critic, is the sudden imbalance on the spin mechanism after release and survivability of the bearings, support structure, and other parts. The projectile might be reusable, but is the launcher?

I know how rockets works. There is non easy way to replace rocket for space transportation. So, I guess, we have to live with their low system efficiency for some while in the future. We know all alternative principles like space elevators, tethers, more or less for over hundred years and there is no easy alternative, but we have to keep on it. I would say, some sort of an electromagnetic guided acceleration infrastructure system, which lifts itself from ground to the injection point in 80 km altitude, and is about 1,000 km long (which results in 3 g average acceleration), may be a guiding idea.

By the way: When working with efficiencies, if you want it to be helpful, it always depends very much on how they are defined. Example: If I define how much of the energy that was originally available in the energy storage of a car (e.g. in the fuel) is finally available in the car, at the end of the car’s “mission”, then this efficiency is for all types of today’s cars exactly Zero. All energy initially available for propulsion has been completely converted into thermal energy (if the car has not driven up a extreme high mountain :-)).

About the spin launch thing:
The nice thing about some “ideas” is that very often (not always unfortunately) a discussion of their basic principles is enough to realize that the ideas are useless. Here at the Spin launch this is the case, as “thunderfoot” has shown very simply and beautifully. He didn’t even go deep into the numerous technical problems because the insanity of the idea inevitably emerges from the simple analysis. By the way, these “spin-launch” people weren’t too smart to fake false results. See how the missile flips over and it is already going off at an angle.

Can Spinlaunch be made to work as advertised? I don’t know. It seems implausible, but the nice thing about America is the freedom to try new things, even if they seem implausible. Even if it does not work well on Earth, it may be a reasonable way to move some things off the lunar surface.

In reviewing your November 18 comment, above: “The efficiency of the whole process is therefore eta = 30.42 MJ / 521.1 MJ = 0.058 or only around 6%.”

You seem to have concluded that 6% efficiency is bad, but modern cars are not an order of magnitude better than that, even after more than a century of trying to increase efficiencies of automobiles. Thermodynamics is a real bear, and the four stroke internal combustion engine can’t be expected to get much better than a theoretical 30-ish% efficiency, and the reality is even worse — just for the engine. (Industrial Rankine cycle power plants have to work hard to get above 28% and a harder time getting above 42%, which already requires superheaters and other tricks.) Add on the wind drag, road resistance, gearing, and air conditioner.

A rocket, on the other hand, has to lift and accelerate the fuel that it will use later in the flight. It also has to lift and accelerate the rocket structure itself. I’m surprised that you calculated a whole 6% efficiency, although you forgot to include the energy of the height gain (which, for Earth, I calculated, in my youth, to be around 1/10th the orbital kinetic energy — I had been interested in the energy needed, not the efficiency), which may bring your calculated efficiency to around 6.4%.

A space elevator may do significantly better at energy efficiency, but there is already too much stuff in Earth orbit for these to be a practical solution. The expected energy use for an electrical space elevator is just the lift to geostationary altitude, and from there the spacecraft can be released into a circular orbit. The energy to accelerate the spacecraft comes from the rotation of the Earth, where the accelerating force imparted onto the spacecraft is the Coriolis force. Orbital acceleration comes from the rotation the Earth, so we could see an electrical efficiency above 1.

Spinlaunch: BUSTED!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ziGI0i9VbE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibSJ_yy96iE

The kinetic energy of one kilogram of payload in LEO is E_kin = 1/2 * 1kg * (7800 m / s) ^ 2 = 30.42 MJ. Starhip needs 5000 tons propellant to bring 100,000 kg into orbit (LEO). Of the 5000 tons, 1042 tons are methane (rest is oxygen). The calorific value of methane is 50.0 MJ / kg. That means Starship has to burn 10.42 kg methane (= 10.42 * 50.0 MJ / kg = 521.1 MJ) for 1 kg payload. The efficiency of the whole process is therefore eta = 30.42 MJ / 521.1 MJ = 0.058 or only around 6%.

We need an infrastructure that can increase this level of efficiency by an order of magnitude. Maybe an electromagnetic acceleration track. However, this must be 1000-2000 km long and end at an altitude of 80 km.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqwpQarrDwk&t=425s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fJnPcxxfDM

5:54

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4peA9lqBUY

5:44

If you think that I have been avoiding such things I think you need to reread much of what I have been getting at all this time.

Read Strategy Over Morality and you will find what you are looking for in our and all other governments.

At least in the American model there is the potential to have these conversations about what is what. There is a bit of a counter intuitive thinking that you must engage in, but choose all the same.

America has a major problem and has gotten and has been out of control.

Is it too late? I am not certain, but I do know that at least there is some degree of hope if there is strong American leadership and strong movement in America that has the potential to push back and stave off this Socialist “Utopia”. Why do you think Trump had to go at any cost? Do you really think he lost the election because of how popular and desirable a candidate Joe Biden was?

Trump or someone like Trump has the potential that the world needs IMO.

Try this, remove America from the equation, tell me what the world looks like tomorrow.

What does an unrestrained Globalist / rogue CIA / Communist Chinese slave nation / social credit score / surveillance world look like to you?

Yes, that’s right. But the two weren’t alone. They had a lot of help from the CIA and other American organizations. Your nation became already immediately guilty in 1945 of having laid the foundations for today’s globalist – as an ideology that destroys peoples, nations and cultures – as America laid and financed the foundations for the creation of the EU.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Committee_on_United_Europe

https://youtu.be/4vPisGG6nvw 12 min.

The Left is always moving the ball forward and to the Left. They may sustain massive losses in 2022 midterms, but they will have conditioned the populous to be receptive to their extremism, and then they dial it down and “compromise” and move the ball further forward. They / the Democrat party machine are playing the long game.

And the Republicans? What are they doing? A segment of them have given Biden a win on an insane budget bill. And what is their thought process IMO? They know that Mansion and probably Sinema will not agree to the next insane multi Trillion dollar bill that must be approved by the Senate, but they will agree today and get their states the cash included in the first bill. So they get their funding and they can justify that, but will deny Biden the Democrat party machine wet dream.

And that is a risky game to play IMO.

They must ALL be thrown out and replaced with actual Americans who can see past their own nose and political self interests.

(They really do not care what you want, its all about what they are going to force on everyone)

And where do you find them? Being hired by the current administration in Washington D.C.. If I had made that up you would say I was spinning or lying to make my point. But there is no need for that, that is exactly what they are doing. And they mean it.

This is ruthless political warfare of the first order, and so we must fight them in kind, ruthlessly.

And in the end we must win. But there are no guarantees, all potentials exist at this point in time because of the one thing that gives them an edge, TECHNOLOGY.

(And where is the silver lining here? Because the Left is being so overt people are actually beginning to pay attention and they are rejecting them. BUT, the control of the technology and the corporate tendency to be Globalist oriented is a big hurdle to overcome. So all potentials exist IMO)

What do you think (in the context of our discussion) of Richard von Coudenhove-Kalergi and Jean Monnet as early examples of globalists?

Elon Musk ? & Akira The Don
“If You Don’t Make Stuff, There is No Stuff”
https://youtu.be/nA4Ya-yKJ0A
3:23

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10200293/Trigger-warning-device-classrooms-parties-sounds-alarm-detects-offensive-language.html

And “technology” like this is the least offensive of what will be in your future.

In America this thing would be going off every 2 minutes until it blew up. And then when the voice recognition that identifies the “Political correctness” violator is included in the A.I. package then your social score rating / FICO score / grades will be influenced, the mocking will cease.

And then you will comply. That is the future you so short short- sightedly embrace whether you realize it or not.

And I am not even making any of this up to make my point, its right in front of your own eyeballs. And they are very serious, you will comply.

How dark and cold the future is in your Intellectualized reality. I say, no thank you.

Lee: While you live in your EU managed life there are things of great consequence going on around you.

But you are so immersed in your own security and managed “Freedom” that you are unable to see what must be seen. Long term you my friend are the problem. And who will suffer the consequences of your short term thinking and short sightedness? Guess who? (You live with them)

Lee Stevenson: To call the discussion here by those who you disagree with “foaming all over your keyboard due to the imaginary fall of civilization” is quite insulting and beneath you.

The discussion has been remarkable civilized. What you really object to is the fact that there are terrible things going on, most of which have been instigated by leftists worldwide. You dislike it that others are pointing this out, even though you yourself agree with them on this point.

So to discredit those others, you now imply that they are all overly emotional and thoughtless, and only you have been sane and civilized.

I have warned you about this before. Please stop. Make such a generalized insulting comment again and I will suspend you.

When you all have finished foaming all over your keyboards due to the imaginary fall of civilization which exists purely in your own echo chambers.

Lex Fridman Podcast Number 200
“Michael Malice: Totalitarianism and Anarchy”
https://youtu.be/R5rNoV1Qy_Q
2:37:21

“Saule Omarova, President Joe Biden’s nominee for the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC), called during a March 2021 virtual conference to eliminate all private bank accounts and deposits.”

“Omarova discussed one of her papers, “The People’s Ledger How to Democratize Money and Finance the Economy,” which would help “redesign” the financial system and make the economy “more equitable for everyone.”

She said it would change the “private-public power balance” and democratize finance to a more systemic level.”

“Her paper calls for eliminating all banks and transferring all bank deposits to “FedAccounts” at the Federal Reserve.

During her conference speech, she said, “There will be no more private bank accounts, and all of the deposit accounts will be held directly at the Fed”:”

Saule Omarova, President Joe Biden’s nominee for the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC), called during a March 2021 virtual conference to eliminate all private bank accounts and deposits.

Who is she? The current American administration is desperate that a full blown COMMUNIST take control of our currency!

Are you getting my point now?

https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2021/10/1024/512/Saule-Omarova.jpg?ve=1&tl=1#

And this is why this is now what will come soon, but not soon enough.

SHOCK POLL: GOP HOLDS LARGEST LEAD OVER DEMOCRATS IN 40 YEARS

And this is why the Democrat party machine is so dangerous right now. They can and will do anything to remain relevant, up to and including screwing with elections and murder. Conspiracy? Call it what ever you like.

Precisely! And the moment that America surrenders its position as the reserve currency (In trade for what I do not know, Bitcoin?) the entire world economy collapses and true chaos ensues. Exactly correct. Who or what will take its place? Communist China? Russia? Digital currency controlled by the U.N.? The World Economic Forum? George Soros?

Lee: “The points you raise mostly have some worth of discussion, but to throw them all in the same bucket, give it a stir, and label it a conspiracy kinda removes any chance of reasoned discourse.”

What devalues your observation is the current Liberal / Leftist / Millennial “Politically correct” “intellectualized reality” political movement contingent that is currently underway in America who is driving the Democrat party machine out of desperation to follow and pander to them because they see them as the future, is very real.

And their alliance and belief in and with the Globalist model that must destroy American dominance in the world in order that their agenda be fully realized is what makes this point in history a point where this “There can not be a conspiracy this involved and convoluted” false. There are no conspiracies, and there are no coincidences.

Call it a convenient confluence of agendas, call it what ever you like, but that is exactly what is underway even if you are unable to see it. Its going on right in front of your unbelieving eyes. But there it is all the same.

These political forces in the world are without doubt focused on the destruction of America and its Constitution as founded, its their one and only stumbling block and problem. Without America and its annoying Constitution in the way they will dominate the planet with their Socialist / slavery / “In the future you will own nothing, and you will be happy” utopia.

The points you raise mostly have some worth of discussion, but to throw them all in the same bucket, give it a stir, and label it a conspiracy kinda removes any chance of reasoned discourse.

Not ever conspiracy is false, but the more elaborate the theory, the lager the chance it is wrong. I believe that your president is a bit too “sleepy” to be the leader of the free world, but his infrastructure bill should surly be to the republicans liking…. Unless I am very wrong in my US history, most, if not all of the big infrastructure spending projects over there were proposed and passed by republican govenment.

@wayne

I realize my “build it and they will come” is not any kind of “law” , but in the case of this huge tennis gun I believe it is a fair comment. If it never gets off the ground ( pun intended ), I am sure someone somewhere will find an application for the tech. ( I will try and watch your clip after dinner tonight, if my not so small angels give me chance!) It’s both remembrance day in the UK and fathers day in Sweden today, so I wish all you US guys and fathers a happy both.

@Questioner,

That’s why you are not working in the financial branch of your government, or hopefully any branch of any govenment ;-)

Love and light, and given the day… Peace for us all.

Cotour:

Thank you for your text, which I broadly agree with. It is a fact that the European Union (which I oppose) has been an instrument of US geostrategy from the start. It is not only for this reason that it would be extremely desirable, in line with our goals, if the United States forfeited its economic, military and cultural supremacy in the world. But we have already discussed this in depth.

An important step towards this would be the US dollar forfeit its role as a world reserve currency and then a collapse of the western financial system happens, which is based on debt money, even if I as a shareholder would be negatively affected by the consequences.

Sry, I missed that you had posted Manley’s video.

I only posted it because it was relevant. No other reason.

My thinking is, if they can make it work, Great.
If not. Great.
It is their money, and if it works, and is cost effective, then it will survive.
If not, the market will end it.

That is the way this should work, and I am content to let it, and not sit here and declare they should give it up because I do not think it will work.
There are obvious issues they have to overcome. But I hesitate to declare things impossible or unreasonable, especially considering I am not in their engineering meetings.

On the contrary, I would rather see all of these idea’s, crazy or mainstream, get a fair shake.

And with the commercial sector finally taking the lead, and the government no longer picking winners and losers, we have an actual chance.