Because you don’t pay attention to them, they would seem that way to you. This argument of yours is an example of what you consider a good argument?

I stand corrected – your arguments are thinner than air.

Done and done. You are the only one not paying attention.

>>
“Predicted virus would simple disappear on its own.”

And now we will never know, because there was so much draconian, unhealthy reaction to it that it grew during summer months. During summer months! Other paces that were not as draconian and had better reactions have virtually eliminated it.
<<

You really have to nail this down for us. Please point us to anyplace where there was a significant virus outbreak where then the virus disappeared in the summer months/warm weather without significant interventions, i.e., masking, quarantine, tracing, and social isolation.

You need more training to successfully spew your Leftist Bovine Effluent here, you consistently fail miserably.

Although I do not know what else they would train you on.

Oh, I get it all right. You don’t. You forget that Trump is not the dictator you think that he is. He is severely limited in what he can and cannot do on the state and local levels. Trump could not stop Pelosi or de Blasio from giving their stupid advice (First Amendment, you know), or the Governors from running their own states into the ground. He runs a federal government, not a national government, like so many other countries.

Not like the country you think we should be.

I addressed election fraud on another post relevant to the election. I do not wish to visit Wuhan.

Typical.

Why no comment? Because that would reveal the fraudulent nature of the argument of the Left.

A Leftist can NEVER answer honestly any question that reveals them for what they are, frauds.

I understand, its the nature of the beast.

“Trump took the reigns early, but then various governors did the stupidest things possible.”

“Took the reigns” and allowed stupid things. You are soooo close to getting it.

I think you would be much more comfortable there, its what you promote being developed here in America.

I ask you again: Why can the voting machines not be examined?

The evidence of rampant organized cheating and fraud builds and it will not be able to be unseen and so the Congress and the Senate MUST do what must be done, come hell or high water and anything else that the political class may live in fear of. If they do not take care of business here and the Democrat Leftists among us become further empowered we are all and the Constitution is threatened.

This must be done the hard way and whom ever needs to protest then let them protest, and those who need to become violent must be met with equal degrees of violence in their attempt to prosecute their reign of fear and domestic terror.

Success here will be Trumpian, its his destiny.

RL:

“Democrats pushed a candidate this year who could not complete a full sentence, who hid in his basement and when he did hold a public “rally” could only get a few dozen supporters to show up in a parking lot to honk horns. But Democrats were never worried for some reason. You never saw Democrats in full-on panic mode. This was a huge “tell.”

“They weren’t campaigning. Their plan was to cheat.”

“They resent the whole premise behind elections. Look, they don’t believe they should have to persuade anybody to agree with them. Therefore, they don’t believe in campaigns. They don’t believe in the free, open exchange of ideas. There aren’t any legitimate ideas outside of their own.”

“They can’t persuade a majority of Americans to support Black Lives Matter. They can’t persuade a majority of Americans to support burning down American cities and private property. They can’t persuade a majority of Americans to go along with their ideas on guns and eliminating free speech. They can’t persuade anybody to agree with that!”

“Those are things they’re gonna have to force on people, and they are more than willing and eager to force that stuff on you, but they need the power to do it. So they have to go through the motions. The modern-day Democrats have to go through the motions of campaigning, and they have to go through the motions of trying to win the hearts and minds of voters.”

“They’re doing it in front of our faces.” They really are. They are attempting to win elections without broad public support. That’s what they’re trying to do. That’s just another way of phrasing what they’re doing. How do you win elections without broad public support?

You have to cheat.”

Edward: Well said and quite accurate. I might have done the same, but I have grown very much tired of talking to walls. They don’t listen, and just repeat the same ignorant soundbites learned from the Democratic Party press making believe it is doing reporting.

Really? That is your takeaway on all this?

After some careful thought, he put a ban on travel so early that people like you complained about it. Now you guys are all too eager to place travel bans so fast that no thought is going into them.

“Predicted virus would simple disappear on its own.”

And now we will never know, because there was so much draconian, unhealthy reaction to it that it grew during summer months. During summer months! Other paces that were not as draconian and had better reactions have virtually eliminated it. Some U.S. states barely felt it, despite staying open and not requiring masks. The empirical evidence is on Trump’s side, not yours.

“Held rallies and events that spread the virus.”

Hah! the virus spread within BiteMe*’s locked-down, over-masked, too-frightened-to-campaign campaign. In fact, in order to blame Trump for the spread, the phrase “super spreader” had changed in such a way that the BiteMe* campaign could be called a super spreader event.

… oh, wait. I found your problem:
“Forced states to compete against each other for medical resources.”

You listened to the news media, not what Trump actually said. This was your mistake. This was your foolish move. This is why I think you are ignorant. You are.

After all, the previous president’s playbook was to wait for a thousand deaths, then start to do something. Trump started to do something the week following the first positive test occurred in this country. And Obamacare, which was supposed to keep us from losing our homes and businesses if we got sick, failed to keep us from losing them anyway — even though we didn’t get sick!

Trump took the reigns early, but then various governors did the stupidest things possible.

Here is what our local officials did:
Nursing Home strategy:
Why is it that governments always ask themselves, “what is the stupidest thing we can do?” Then ask themselves, “how can we make that even stupider?” Does one really have to be a Democrat to send flu patients into concentrations of the most vulnerable? Nursing homes complained immediately that this was the worst thing that could possibly be done, but it took Governor Cuomo a month and a half to realize that his strategy was producing bad press for him.

Lockdown, Shutdown, Smackdown, Great Oppression strategy:
The strategy in which the maximum number of people sacrificed the maximum amount in order to save forty thousand lives. Lives that were lost anyway. And then some.

Ban elective surgery strategy:
Elective surgery turns out to be anything that is not an emergency but can be scheduled in advance. Examples include cancer surgery and heart surgeries. Thus, people who should have gotten life-saving surgeries were denied them for weeks or months. How many didn’t live that long?

This strategy also includes all the other medical procedures that were delayed, including cancer and cardiac screenings. Between this strategy and the idea that the hospital was the most likely place to become infected by Wuhan flu, people stopped going to the hospital, even when it was an emergency. The lack of patients resulted in a large number of medical personnel being put on furlough.

How many people died from lack of healthcare we shall never know. However, we can see that Obamacare failed us during a time when we needed it most.

Ban medication strategy:
The use of hydroxychloriquine and other potential curative medications were banned by several Democrat governors. What are these governors thinking? When people are deathly sick, they deserve to get medications that have been shown to be useful, even if they have not yet been proved useful through normal FDA testing programs. Off label use of various medications is legal for other medical problems, but somehow we had governors taking it upon themselves to prevent their use for this particular disease.

We all are forced to suffer through all kinds of punishing preventative methods, such as lockdowns and masks, but somehow we do not have the right to choose for ourselves whether we want to try potentially curative medications.

Hug-A-Chinese strategy:
In late February, a month after President Trump initiated the travel ban from China, Pelosi and de Blasio directed people to go to their local Chinatowns for dinner and to celebrate Chinese New Year in large crowds. It would be racist not to. Three weeks later, Wuhan flu had become so bad in New York and California that the lockdown, shutdown, Great Oppression strategy was implemented in San Francisco, and New York followed suit a few days later. Clearly, this strategy was a cluster bleep.

Trump didn’t do those. Our governors and local officials did.

You attributed to Trump things that he didn’t do and refuse to acknowledge Trump’s successful strategies, which I mentioned before, and even try to convince me that some of his successful strategies were failures. I’m smarter than that. You fell for someone’s tall tales, but I am not as gullible as you.,

Trump could have done better, Trump could have done worse, NOTHING that government told you me or anyone else did much to help the situation IMO. The virus is running its course just like it has for time in memorial.

And this statement: ” Failed to bring full power of federal govt to bear on the crisis. “, is just outright fraudulent and false. You sound like you needed Gestapo tactics to be issued forth from the government, then you would have felt more secure with the existence of the virus.

What about the hospitals built over night by the military? What about the mass ventilator and PPP production? What about the floating hospital delivered in a week, and not used? (Another example of government, NYS, panic and their being totally unprepared because they spent the money for such an event on other more important needs) What about the existence of the vaccines that are today being delivered ONLY because Trump spent the billions and forced the development and testing?

And this is a good one too: “Threw out the pandemic playbook left him by the previous president. ”

“Biden has argued that he’d have responded better to the coronavirus pandemic than Trump, but back in 2009, the Obama-Biden administration “abruptly advised states to stop testing for H1N1 flu, and stopped counting individual cases.”

(Obama, and Biden, left the cupboards bare)

Might some other president have been a better hand holder for all of those adult American children who needed it? I suppose, but no other president would have done a better job IMO. You think the likes of governor Murphy, gov. Cuomo and the like are doing a better job? You think they would have had a better handle on it all?

Take a good look around.

He screwed up. The man left us vulnerable to a pandemic then bungled the response. When asked he took no responsibilty at all for any of the mistakes.

Well, that is new. I wouldn’t have thought you an anti-vaxxer.

“Covid was predicted to kill 2.5 million Americans without interventions.”

The main intervention was hand washing. The prediction went from 2.2 million dead this year to 0.2 million, with just minor interventions.

So we undertook those interventions and more, and now we are approaching 0.3 million deaths. What went wrong, Jeff?

The rest of us saw that more people were dying than the predictions said would die if we took varying amounts of intervention. If we did social distancing, then deaths would drop from 200 thousand to 100 thousand. Lockdowns for three weeks would reduce the deaths to only 40,000. We did all those and included masks, too, but we surpassed the 40,000 and are now approaching 300 thousand for the year. Clearly the interventions that are new this year are worse than useless and are counterproductive.

The interventions for previous years were largely limited to hand washing, and as you noted, there were far, far fewer people killed by those flus. The major difference is not so much the flu itself, it didn’t spread as fast as expected or kill those infected at the expected rate in areas that didn’t take draconian interventions. The major difference is the extent and nature of the interventions.

The question is so important that I repeat it: what went wrong, Jeff?

Your math isn’t great is it? 326,000 in 326,000,000 is 0.1%, but only about 1 in 6 Americans have been infected, herd immunity happens when about 4 in 6 gaining immunity, so 1.3 million deaths to get to herd immunity, but infection rates are likely lower for the more vulnerable (they know their chances of it killing them are higher so they make more efforts to avoid becoming infected), if the infection rates were uniform across all demographics there would have been more than 326,000 deaths from the same number of people infected.

Months ago I mentioned that if rates of infections were held down to levels that the health systems could handle it would take 1000 days to get to herd immunity. We’ve done about 300 of those days to date.

This “prediction” was an irresponsible horror scenario created by those actors who wanted to plant fear in the population for their own benefit. It was already clear around March 20, 2020 that the mortal danger of the disease is no greater than the flu for the entire population. A real pandemic was the plague in the 14th century, which killed around a third of the population (around 30%). What is the (real) proportion of those who have died of Covid-19 in the total population? Something in the range of 0.01-0.03%?

Here is a link to what Covid cops are doing which would have people up in arms if it were a druggie.

https://tnc.news/2020/12/20/viral-video-shows-calgary-police-arresting-21-year-old-for-violating-covid-19-rules/

Covid was predicted to kill 2.5 million Americans without interventions. Moderate flus do not kill 2.5 million Americans a year.

Untrue, IFR is about 10 times that of flu and it will infect a far higher fraction of those exposed to it. Even with the improvement in treatments since March if it were to run unchecked through the US population about 1.5 million people would die from it before herd immunity were reached.

Here is a detailed explanation of the “Cathedral”:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhLPzKonBBA

“Thinking About Moldbug: The One-Party State”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMiycdNVXG0

Note also:
The people who are dying are people with compromised systems. These people would have been dead “Before” the 1919 flu. Therefore, this Covid-19 is significantly less “deadly” than the Spanish flu.

This does not say Covid is not a problem, only gives it some perspective. We now live in a society that people will risk using illicit drugs of unknown origins and safety, but will not tolerate agricultural chemicals with proven safety. Having been in food safety, I will not buy organic.

You play the typical game that we know from the left: taking individual facts out of context, falsifying them and lying. You are building a straw man and contradictions that only exist in your Marxist brain.

None of us here deny the existence of the virus. We’re just saying it’s no more dangerous than moderate flu, what has been scientifically proven. The state measures are in no way justified and completely exaggerated. Nevertheless, it cannot be wrong to find a cure for the disease, which in individual cases can be fatal, especially for old people who are already ailing. Finally, there are also vaccinations against the flu. Why should Trump, who is probably very committed to accelerating the development of the remedy, not take this fact into account.

“Government is the problem”

also folks on this board:

“Government made 2 vaccines hoooray”

Same folks on this board:

“The virus is a hoax and no worse than the common flu”

Sure glad people wear them. A friend said she removes hers to cough and sneeze because it gets all wet!

So without Trump no vaccine?
Nonsense, I attribute the many vaccines in early use and being developed around the world to market forces – companies acting to meet an anticipated demand. No politician can take credit for the work undertaken to develop vaccines.