The right’s general lack of unity and support
The right’s approach to its own side.
Rather than write another depressing essay detailing the uniform madness on the left, with its eager desire to censor, blacklist, and imprison its opponents — now topped by a desire to see Jews slaughtered — I think I will let a short essay by Mark Judge speak for me:
The Left uplifts its artists. Why doesn’t the Right?
Key quote:
When a gifted young singer or filmmaker emerges on the left, the entire media ecosystem works in tandem to lift that person up. They are noticed in Vanity Fair, the Hollywood Reporter, the Washington Post, and the New York Times. There are profiles on the morning shows, grants and financial support. Everybody pulls in one direction.
On the right, it is almost the opposite effect. “There is a lot of gatekeeping,” Roland tells me. “Everyone is protecting their own turf.” Conservative media companies want to promote their own product. Whereas on the left everyone lends a hand to uplift talent, on the right there is more of an effort to ignore it.
Judge notes this pattern based on his own experience, as well as that of a conservative filmmaker he interviews. Judge, a journalist and author, became well known when he was accused falsely during the Kavanaugh hearings of participating in the left’s made-up rape story. Since then his career has moved forward, but as he so correctly notes, not with the kind of support you’d think he should get from the right.
I say he is correct because like him and that filmmaker, I have had the same experience now for decades. Though I have been fortunate in the past two years to get strong support from JJ Sefton at Ace of Spades, Sarah Hoyt at Instapundit, Doug Ross at his Journal, the editors at Whatfinger, and Robert Pratt at Pratt on Texas, in general these are the exceptions that make the rule.
For example, like Judge I have found it difficult if not impossible to get conservative sites to review my most recent book, Conscious Choice: The origins of slavery in America and why it matters today and for our future in outer space, even though it deals with American history from an accurate and traditional viewpoint, putting the lie to the New York Times 1619 Project that claims slavery was central to the formation of the entire United States, and gives a hopeful recipe for guiding future generations to build healthy and prosperous societies, both here on Earth and among the stars.
I have also experienced this same resistance with all my histories, as well as my writing here at this website. Though I am one of the few space journalists who accurately covers this field without bowing to the administrative state, I can get few conservative sites to use Behind the Black as their space news source. Instead, they go to generally left-leaning sites like Space.com and others.
This unwillingness to support its own side is best illustrated in the real world by the factional warfare we see constantly in Congress among Republicans. While the Democrats are almost universally united, the Republicans are constantly hindered by divisions and an eager willingness of too many members to play ball with the other side — despite knowing that the other side will stab them in the back the instant it can.
I write this partly to vent my frustration, but mostly to try to get the right to change its ways, for everyone. The right needs to do more to embrace its people, not just at the top, but across the board. By doing so it will strengthen its cause, and make it possible to fight this war more successfully.
Readers!
Please consider supporting my work here at Behind the Black. Your support allows me the freedom and ability to analyze objectively the ongoing renaissance in space, as well as the cultural changes -- for good or ill -- that are happening across America. Fourteen years ago I wrote that SLS and Orion were a bad ideas, a waste of money, would be years behind schedule, and better replaced by commercial private enterprise. Only now does it appear that Washington might finally recognize this reality.
In 2020 when the world panicked over COVID I wrote that the panic was unnecessary, that the virus was apparently simply a variation of the flu, that masks were not simply pointless but if worn incorrectly were a health threat, that the lockdowns were a disaster and did nothing to stop the spread of COVID. Only in the past year have some of our so-called experts in the health field have begun to recognize these facts.
Your help allows me to do this kind of intelligent analysis. I take no advertising or sponsors, so my reporting isn't influenced by donations by established space or drug companies. Instead, I rely entirely on donations and subscriptions from my readers, which gives me the freedom to write what I think, unencumbered by outside influences.
You can support me either by giving a one-time contribution or a regular subscription. There are four ways of doing so:
1. Zelle: This is the only internet method that charges no fees. All you have to do is use the Zelle link at your internet bank and give my name and email address (zimmerman at nasw dot org). What you donate is what I get.
2. Patreon: Go to my website there and pick one of five monthly subscription amounts, or by making a one-time donation.
3. A Paypal Donation or subscription:
4. Donate by check, payable to Robert Zimmerman and mailed to
Behind The Black
c/o Robert Zimmerman
P.O.Box 1262
Cortaro, AZ 85652
You can also support me by buying one of my books, as noted in the boxes interspersed throughout the webpage or shown in the menu above.
The right’s approach to its own side.
Rather than write another depressing essay detailing the uniform madness on the left, with its eager desire to censor, blacklist, and imprison its opponents — now topped by a desire to see Jews slaughtered — I think I will let a short essay by Mark Judge speak for me:
The Left uplifts its artists. Why doesn’t the Right?
Key quote:
When a gifted young singer or filmmaker emerges on the left, the entire media ecosystem works in tandem to lift that person up. They are noticed in Vanity Fair, the Hollywood Reporter, the Washington Post, and the New York Times. There are profiles on the morning shows, grants and financial support. Everybody pulls in one direction.
On the right, it is almost the opposite effect. “There is a lot of gatekeeping,” Roland tells me. “Everyone is protecting their own turf.” Conservative media companies want to promote their own product. Whereas on the left everyone lends a hand to uplift talent, on the right there is more of an effort to ignore it.
Judge notes this pattern based on his own experience, as well as that of a conservative filmmaker he interviews. Judge, a journalist and author, became well known when he was accused falsely during the Kavanaugh hearings of participating in the left’s made-up rape story. Since then his career has moved forward, but as he so correctly notes, not with the kind of support you’d think he should get from the right.
I say he is correct because like him and that filmmaker, I have had the same experience now for decades. Though I have been fortunate in the past two years to get strong support from JJ Sefton at Ace of Spades, Sarah Hoyt at Instapundit, Doug Ross at his Journal, the editors at Whatfinger, and Robert Pratt at Pratt on Texas, in general these are the exceptions that make the rule.
For example, like Judge I have found it difficult if not impossible to get conservative sites to review my most recent book, Conscious Choice: The origins of slavery in America and why it matters today and for our future in outer space, even though it deals with American history from an accurate and traditional viewpoint, putting the lie to the New York Times 1619 Project that claims slavery was central to the formation of the entire United States, and gives a hopeful recipe for guiding future generations to build healthy and prosperous societies, both here on Earth and among the stars.
I have also experienced this same resistance with all my histories, as well as my writing here at this website. Though I am one of the few space journalists who accurately covers this field without bowing to the administrative state, I can get few conservative sites to use Behind the Black as their space news source. Instead, they go to generally left-leaning sites like Space.com and others.
This unwillingness to support its own side is best illustrated in the real world by the factional warfare we see constantly in Congress among Republicans. While the Democrats are almost universally united, the Republicans are constantly hindered by divisions and an eager willingness of too many members to play ball with the other side — despite knowing that the other side will stab them in the back the instant it can.
I write this partly to vent my frustration, but mostly to try to get the right to change its ways, for everyone. The right needs to do more to embrace its people, not just at the top, but across the board. By doing so it will strengthen its cause, and make it possible to fight this war more successfully.
Readers!
Please consider supporting my work here at Behind the Black. Your support allows me the freedom and ability to analyze objectively the ongoing renaissance in space, as well as the cultural changes -- for good or ill -- that are happening across America. Fourteen years ago I wrote that SLS and Orion were a bad ideas, a waste of money, would be years behind schedule, and better replaced by commercial private enterprise. Only now does it appear that Washington might finally recognize this reality.
In 2020 when the world panicked over COVID I wrote that the panic was unnecessary, that the virus was apparently simply a variation of the flu, that masks were not simply pointless but if worn incorrectly were a health threat, that the lockdowns were a disaster and did nothing to stop the spread of COVID. Only in the past year have some of our so-called experts in the health field have begun to recognize these facts.
Your help allows me to do this kind of intelligent analysis. I take no advertising or sponsors, so my reporting isn't influenced by donations by established space or drug companies. Instead, I rely entirely on donations and subscriptions from my readers, which gives me the freedom to write what I think, unencumbered by outside influences.
You can support me either by giving a one-time contribution or a regular subscription. There are four ways of doing so:
1. Zelle: This is the only internet method that charges no fees. All you have to do is use the Zelle link at your internet bank and give my name and email address (zimmerman at nasw dot org). What you donate is what I get.
2. Patreon: Go to my website there and pick one of five monthly subscription amounts, or by making a one-time donation.
3. A Paypal Donation or subscription:
4. Donate by check, payable to Robert Zimmerman and mailed to
Behind The Black
c/o Robert Zimmerman
P.O.Box 1262
Cortaro, AZ 85652
You can also support me by buying one of my books, as noted in the boxes interspersed throughout the webpage or shown in the menu above.
Glad to help and, we all live with this. I find the culture in the media business, Left and Right, to be one of “don’t mention the competition” for any reason to the point of absurdity. I’ve always done it and it drove station staff nuts.
For one the right fears a backlash if the person they promote turns out to be a past member of some idiot organization. Or has made a stupid statement at some point in their life or if found to be clean in all other respects might have at some point done anything against the conservative core values.
For two the right has no defined core values except those publicly pushed by the left.
If a conservative if accused of being a racist(any thing really) who speaks up for him? Who on the right has the bullhorn of nationwide coverage?
Everything on the left is about promotion. If they find someone they like for any reason they all promote him. They learned it from Hollywood and do it through their media proxies. They are unchecked and uncompromising. To become the new left influences you need to go through their university training camps and then get vetted by the old guard.
Apart from Musk—the Right has no George Soros.
Let’s tell the truth…the GOP is the party of old money and Mitt Romney. Grover Norquist is as bad as “Mayor Pete” in that he doesn’t care that our roads are falling in. The money men don’t like taxes…and Pete doesn’t like you having cars.
Time for a third party
Jeff–
I would put forth the proposition: we have a huge problem on the center-right, with Crony’s and RINO’s, and less so as it regards representative-democracy as a thing.
Progressive Republicans believe the exact same thing as Progressive democrats, but for some reason ‘we’ don’t appear to want to distinguish amongst those on our side.
Dave Smith and Michael Malice
on…..The Red Pill (Dec. 2020)
https://youtu.be/8TBM0-OMsJE
2:46
Wayne has a point … it does not solve the problem of the erosion of our society, to simply replace one set of self-assured elitists with another within our institutions.
Jeff, the problem is that we look to government to “take care of us” and solve problems that are specific to the individual (be they “victim” or crony) from the top down, when it lacks the insight to do that … at the expense of those roads and other one-size-fits-all tasks that directly pertain to the legitimate mission of government: the securing of our unalienable rights. Were that focus maintained, government would not need the tax dollars it demands.
Our expectations of our government, are a big part of the problem,
“We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.”-William J. Casey, CIA Director
Jester-
ref: “Our expectations of our government, are a big part of the problem,”
Totally agree.
As for the GOP divide; one of Trump’s accomplishments has been casting a light on the Usual Suspects and showing us exactly who they are.
The current Israeli war effort puts a laser beam on it.
Crony Chronicles:
I Want To Be A Crony
Crony Chronicles (2012)
https://youtu.be/2aO9tA5DWJM
1:39
Cotour-
Hunley & Groubert
America’s Untold Stories
CIA Series: Part 2; CIA & the News Media
https://youtu.be/mzkOb2jGLoU
59:29
To Jester…
Government isn’t the only thing out there with clout to ruin lives.
We have an adversarial system of justice…I think that should be across the board….government and labor are *supposed**to balance out corporate types.
Many conservatives advocated for “loser pays”–but social conservatives have been forced to use the court systems for redress against wokeco.–where libertarian purists don’t think courts or votes should have any say at all in economic affairs.
Business friendly often equates to worker hostile.
Wayne:
I want to point out that operations like the CIA and the others are a needed next level S.O.M. world operators.
The problem? When those operations become filled with operators who through their developed logic of power, control and manipulation come to the conclusion that they are in fact the default shapers of the paradigm.
They flip the script, and that is how such things go. Our only hope like always is the fact that over time the structure of the Constitution is such that it forces them all to be revealed to the people to some great extent.
Over time if those who wield power in the political realm and those who operate at an arm’s length within these operations are allowed to remain in the shadows unseen, they will become the Defacto power in the world.
And that may well be / is exactly what we are all witness to today. Just review any Christopher Wray testimony before Congress about Jan 6th. to illustrate my point.
There is a fine line.
Well…..
I have refrained from commenting for a while now… But I think now is a good time to poke my head up over the wall.
Bob makes a very good point, society has rarely been as fractured as it is right now. If you have a socialist point of view you are branded “loony left” , if you have conservative politics your are the far right. If you are pro Palestinian you are “anti Semitic” ( note I didn’t say pro Hamas.. two entirely different things! ), if you are pro Israeli you support the slaughter of innocents….
There seems to be no common ground to start from and discuss important matters like grown ups. It’s the same over here in Sweden as it is over there in the US, it’s very much the same in the UK right now.
As ever the optimist, I hope that this is just the result of that “pendulum” (which I’ve been talking about for years ) swinging back from the genuinely loony left side towards the center, and we will soon reach a point where we can all sit down and pow wow and perhaps each side make some compromises for the good of all.
The world is on fire… In so many ways, it has rarely needed clear headed, intelligent leaders with compassion combined with an understanding of reality so much, yet they seem to be in short supply right now.
Biden….. Senile, Trump….. Corrupt and a blatant populist, Netanyahu… Corrupt and a blatant populist, Ismail Haniyeh… Corrupt.. (yes a terrorist), and a blatant populist …
That is just the US and the middle east… I could waffle on about stuff that is going down in the Ukraine with Russia (neither side innocent), and less violently across the rest of the world, but still occurring.
I would like to suggest a solution… But I see no immediate one… The only thing that I think has a chance is the waring parties to somehow sit around a table and be willing to concede something to gain something. Highly unlikely just now.
And Bob… It’s no wonder that few MSM operations are willing to associate with this site… The comments are 99% by right wingers…. It wouldn’t take long for the loony left to make the link. And claim this to be a hot bed of far right extremists…. Respect to the ones that do. I don’t agree with most of (99% ;-) , but you don’t censor for opinions and you keep a tight ship regarding abuse… The right leaning media should take you under their wing.
Lee S: Where will you flee to next?
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/swedish-pm-says-integration-immigrants-has-failed-fueled-gang-crime-2022-04-28/
The cause of such things? The Liberal now Leftist Globalist agenda.
What will you do?
America’s Untold Stories
Hunley / Groubert
CIA Series: Part 2; Family of CIA (Jan, 2022)
https://youtu.be/Q6nQ98xvd74
1:10:05
“The CIA loves legacy and believes in family for recruitment. How and why do so many offspring and relatives of the members of the intelligence community end up in show business, sports, the political world and the arts? What are they doing? What is their agenda?”
Murray Rothbard
The Progressive Era
Chapter 6: 1896: “Collapse of the Third-Party System & Laissez-Faire Politics”
https://youtu.be/6AIpTexe5bU
1:38:52
“Progressivism brought the triumph of institutionalized racism, the disfranchising of blacks in the South, the cutting off of immigration, the building up of trade unions by the federal government into a tripartite of big government, big business, big union alliance, the glorifying of military virtues and conscription, and a drive for American expansion abroad. In short, the Progressive era ushered the modern American politico-economic system into being.”
The battle lines have been drawn. This is not a Republican vs Democrat thing. This is a MAGA vs swamp thing.
As General George Washington so famously said to his men that cold Christmas Eve as they were about to cross the Delaware River:
https://t.ly/eaSc6
Jeff, only government has the monopoly on coercive force. The “rich and powerful” outside of it can, at most, rent access to it.
I do believe in the value of adversarial relationships … for example my approach to the Second Amendment is to limit the Federal government to specifically enforcing it, while the states are tasked with imposing what (few) legitimate restrictions exist to assure public safety … placing both in what I call a “healthy tension” to keep the other honest, with neither being empowered to engage in paternalism that summarily declares ordinary people to be too stupid to protect themselves.
The expectation of workers that they will be protected from the “rich and powerful”, by raising up other rich-and-powerful entities and encouraging (or even mandating) that they depend upon these entities, is an example of just such paternalism … a deception, perhaps with good intent but still a deception, that leads workers away from protecting themselves, through acting to become assets that employers will compete for directly.
Workers need to be as skeptical of unions and government as they do corporations. Believing otherwise is to deceive ourselves about our responsibilities – and capabilities – as free men and women.
If a union wants my respect, they have to show they are as focused on what their rank-and-file deliver in productivity to support what they get, as they are on what they are getting. Otherwise, they are just another greedy corporate structure … as can be seen particularly in the money-laundering operations known as teachers’ unions, where the relationship between union and management is anything but adversarial.
Robert, the problem on the Right is that its influence-gatekeepers are almost as enamored of social technocracy as the Left, and can’t think outside of that box to consider even high-quality alternative sources like you and your writing, To them, promoting the (allegedly) conservative agenda is their job, and they think that they must adhere to “established practices” and “mainstream” sources (as in, “I’ve heard of them before”) or risk their professional reputation (and more significantly, their all-in investment in political-elite status).
That thinking is perhaps best reflected in this re-working of the classic statement about “Harvard men”:
No one ever got fired for quoting an AP article.
This same “professionalism” led to the co-opting of the Tea Party movement by the GOP Establishment, as well. It is what is behind the capture of said Establishment by its three-precincts-in-Cincinnati-predict-the-election, chart-men consultants that are so risk-averse that they worry more about Mean Tweets than the fundamentals of policy.
And the belief of ordinary people in the value of such “professionalism” leads them away from their own common sense … and common sense when it comes from “uncommon” sources.
Good art like good music and good food sells and if it needs a patron it is perhaps not the good art that people think it should be. I don’t buy art on the appeal of the politics of the maker or vendor and I don’t buy as an investment. I buy what I like and what pleases me.
When it comes to writing it is quite true though that I buy 90% of my books from indie authors. I don’t know why J.S.Morin and Chris Nuttall didn’t make it into print in the author world but I don’t buy much from the bookstores these days because they carry books that don’t appeal to me at all. It’s very much the same with the visual arts. Why would anyone like me go to the movies when all that comes out is dreck.
Interesting that no one actually comments on the meat of my post….
It is no good posting YouTube videos for me to watch Cotour, I prefer to get my news from written word. I have no time for random videos, and to be honest, I consider my genuine “boots on the ground” experience of living in a predominantly immigrant area of Stockholm more reliable than any video or even written word reporting.
I am living the experience of being in the “Swedish ghetto”. It is just the same as any other rough area in the world. The gangs kill each other, although with less guns than in the US, that’s fine by me. Sometimes less is more! I have never felt threatened, or worried for my children’s welfare. I have raised them to have their eyes open, and we have never had a thimble full of trouble in the 7 or 8 years we have lived here.
All my comments above still stand. The time for genuine dialogue between waring parties is now.
The point is that there was NONE of that (rape culture, gang killings, drug gangs etc., etc.) before the Liberals / Leftists forced their view of how the world should operate on the very welcoming (and naive) Swedish people, and now there is.
Is that a positive evolution for Sweden in your estimation?
Your desire for “dialogue” which is intended to make you appear as the more reasonable, civilized and intellectually honest person in a conversation will never result in any substantive suggestions or solutions to the now rampant situation either in Sweden or America or wherever these dissimilar cultures have been forced together.
The Left never gives up and will in time turn it all into crap.
Will there be some reasonable middle ground be arrived at over time? Not when one culture continues to out reproduce the other and their religious beliefs are 180 degrees divergent from the other. The nice, civilized Left (YOU) are being used by your superiors who are ruthless and Marxist to facilitate a propaganda that you are not allowed to question.
Your common sense has been highjacked, you are unable to project into the future where this has the potential to go.
The only resulting eventuality is violence and authoritarianism.
And that is ultimately what your superiors indeed want and intend. That is what they do.
@Cotour,
Sorry for my delay in answering you, my lack of recent activity is down to some unfortunate and time consuming circumstances.
I have personally watched the situation that Sweden is in right now play out to it’s conclusion back in the UK.
Massive immigration back in the 50s and 60s, the first generation of children born to immigrants can have a chip on their shoulder and perhaps cause social problems, the 3rd generation are mostly fully integrated into society.
Full disclosure, I do have a problem with Islam. I am atheist, and think most religions are a bad idea, but Islam is seriously problematic.
The solution to all the above is not isolationism, but integration. The Swedes messed up by housing refugee’s and asylum seekers in specific areas in large numbers, creating ghettos, leading to areas with high unemployment and little prospects of self improvement. This obviously causes the young people to lack hope and pushes them into criminality.
The answer cannot be conservative, but must be socialist. creating a chance to break the cycle and restore hope in the youth of these communities requires investment by the people, for the greater good of society.
The very definition of socialism.
It works, and at the end of the day everyone wins. To take the right wing view, and refuse to help the poorer .in society will never raise these folks out of poverty and hopelessness, and just make the situation worse. Give a little to gain so much.
Oh… By the way,
I have no “superiors” , I think my own thoughts, bend to no one, use my votes tactically and with absolute freedom.
Because I have a different world view to most here, doesn’t mean I am beholden to anyone. The left has many problems, I do not deny this. That fact doesn’t make the right more correct or more moral in thought or deed.
You guys do you, I will do me, and try and educate you when I can. It is a bit like fighting windmills, but I can only hope that occasionally my opinion will give someone, sometime a pause for thought.
( And really…. And I’m sure this is one of the few things Bob and myself will agree on. Stop getting all your information from YouTube! It stinks, anyone can post anything. Link to reputable new sources, not some random guy with a webcam and PC )
Dear Lee S: You educate me with every word you chose and form a sentence with. It is like looking at an X-ray, no an MRI into how you think.
“I have personally watched the situation that Sweden is in right now play out to it’s conclusion back in the UK.”
The evidence about how things have “Concluded” in Britan. (The country that you fled as a result of your own Liberal policies incarnate. Where is your next destination to further escape what you declare is your belief system? At some point, hopefully, you must realize the irrationality of your thought process.
Aerial footage shows scale of Israel-Gaza ceasefire march https://youtu.be/LoOH4R3HrUw?si=97_Jof_0an1LzMZi
How does a declared Liberal reject his fellow human beings in such a drastic manner. I believe that makes you at least a bigot and possibly a self-deluding racist.
“The answer cannot be conservative, but must be socialist. creating a chance to break the cycle and restore hope in the youth of these communities requires investment by the people, for the greater good of society. The very definition of socialism.”
How do you break the cycle of poverty and despair? You of course invite, you import an entirely counter to most everything you believe culture into your own out of your largess and put them on welfare and then you incentivize them to reproduce like rabbits so you can create a culture of dependency that also needs to be financially supported. And on and on it goes until you become them. When it should them that integrates into becoming YOU!
“I have no “superiors”. You have intellectual superiors, you as an individual are a well-meaning person though. But as far as superiors because you are unable to understand most of this is true, only from your personal “religious” subjective perspective.
“It works, and at the end of the day everyone wins.” In fact in the end, and there will be an end, everyone is destroyed. Why? Because what you believe is entirely counter to the laws of nature and MUST over time become no more.
You remind me of the Pilgrims who set sail for America, an appropriate story to tell given the time of year in America.
The Pilgrims were escaping religious persecution in England (much like you) and found themselves alone in the new world, in time all DYING!
No social support system, no Capitalism, no requirement to work. They were a bunch of socialists, just like you.
And who in the end saved them and at the same time hastened their own destruction? The native Americans. The native Americans became their social support system. And in time what happened due to their largess? They were conquered and displaced. The native Americans would have made a better investment to just allow the Pilgrims to become extinct. No?
Lee S, you and those who follow yourself self-righteous Liberal belief system are essentially self-delusional parasites that insist, no DEMAND that all others be as moral and fair and equitable and charitable as you.
Fact: Capitalism and a more Conservative philosophy have in fact facilitated ALL of the large$$ and wonderful self-gratifying charity that the oh so moral and self-delusional Liberals (like you) now radical Leftists (because they can become nothing else) socialists who now seek to yoke and control the golden goose.
The golden goose does not exist and produce for socialists. That is against the natural laws of the universe.
And that is what this all really boils down to, you and your kind live in opposition to the natural laws of the universe and in your alleged compassion in reality suck the life blood from EVERYONE.
Lee S, on this day before the American Thanksgiving I wish you and your family all the best. And I suggest you take this moment in time and truly understand what the holiday is all really about. And it is NOT the natural success of socialism!
Cotour: While I agree with most of your ideas, you understanding of the history of the Pilgrims is so seeped in leftwing propaganda that it has literally nothing to do with reality.
The Indians did not save the Pilgrims from starvation. They helped them during their first winter, because the Pilgrims (1) hadn’t had much time to get things started and (2) were operating like a communist commune, where all work and profits were shared equally. The latter was the bigger problem, quickly recognized and fixed by allowing each to grow their own crops for their own profit. By the second or so season the Pilgrims were doing so well they could invite the Indians to a big harvest meal of thanksgivin to celebrate and pay them back.
Zman: Thank you for supporting my general thesis about how the Pilgrims began their adventure in the New World seeped in socialistic / communistic theory, which is exactly where Lee S finds himself and his self-delusion. He and most Liberals, Leftists, Communists have it all bass ackwards IMO.
The takeaway? When you can plainly see that what you are doing through evidence presented is counter to your very existence if you are not too steeped in your own self-delusion about how “moral” and “righteous” you and your chosen belief system is, you make adjustments and change. Refuse to adapt, refuse to make adjustments because you are “RIGHT” then you will most likely die.
And if the Indians were not so generous (Liberal and compassionate) to what turned out to be their future conquers in that first winter? They probably ALL would have perished. Hence the Thanksgiving.
The Indians through their compassion ensured and or hastened their diminishment. They allowed even invited the enemy within and supported them and their needs. And so we have invited the enemy within and are embroiled with the question: Do we assimilate and become what they are? Or do they assimilate and become what we are?
I choose the latter, I assume the Native Americans if they were able to would choose the same.
You seem to be splitting hairs here IMO, please indicate where the Left-wing propaganda dominates in what I generally proposed.
Cotour: You describe the Pilgrims in such a negative way it means that everything you know of them appears to come through modern leftist propaganda only. Moreover, it was not the Pilgrims or even the later Puritans that destroyed the local Indian tribes. Their destruction was mostly caused by themselves, after they repeatedly decided to go to war against the Europeans, and lost repeatedly.
The Pilgrims/Puritans desperately wanted to live in peace with the Indians. It was required of them by their fundamental religious beliefs. To achieve that peace however required the Indians to adapt to changing circumstances, a normal fact of life for everyone for all time. The Indians refused, and instead responded the same as Hamas in Gaza, attempting to kill all Europeans in New England. Not surprisingly the response by the Europeans was the same as the Israelis. They did not commit genocide, they acted to end such genocidal attempts against them by the local tribes.
In the end those local tribes either adapted or died. Both happened. Many still exist in New England but you can hardly notice them because they live like westerners, in prosperity.
In the context of my message to Lee S, like I said, IMO you are splitting some very fine hairs here.
The Natives soon enough understood that they would be paying a steep price for their charity and compassion.
“the Indians refused”. What were they thinking!?
There is a cost to being conquered and the Palestinians, as were the Native Americans only they did not yet realize it, are a conquered people. And by our modern more Liberal society rules artificially prolongs their survival as a separate and viable entity.
https://www.sigma3ioc.com/post/my-political-lens-strategy-over-morality
Cotour: The truth is complex and subtle. To think in shallow broad terms only means you won’t get it right. Such shallow summarizations are typical of the left, which has gotten so lazy it now falls back on meaningless slanders routinely.
Your comments also reveal your continuing hostility to all forms of religion, even when it acts to restrain bad behavior. The Puritans and Pilgrims had no interest in conquering anyone, and strived mightly to prevent such an occurrance, for religious reasons.
And so, in the end, even though the Pilgrims did not “intend” it, the Native Americans were conquered and diminished in time. The road to hell is paved with such seen and unseen “good” intensions.
I am not hostile to religion; I fully understand its importance to the human condition and the roll that it plays in structuring society and culture. Not hostile at all. BUT.
But I do see it all or attempt to see it all in as an objective manner as I possibly can: https://www.sigma3ioc.com/post/god-spirituality-v-politics-law-and-justice-commerce-religion
Religion is and can be a very sharp sword / tool of control, manipulation and abuse. And it can be an agent of great compassion and good. And we can discuss which is which and when.
Again, in the context of my message to Lee S my comments are and were IMO appropriate for that simple purpose of illustration.
Supporting “Left wing propaganda”? Hardly.
I will throw this classic in here: Take note Lee S, history and reality refutes your entire thesis.
Rush Limbaugh Reads the True Story of Thanksgiving: https://youtu.be/yVqpjO0S6vU?si=x_uZ5vk9stuF8crZ
The Pilgrims abandoned the Socialism (Communism) that they apparently interpreted their religion commanded for the concept of private property and essentially Capitalism.
(I miss Rush, he would always crack me up when he would do the little girl voice :)
Cotour: The Pilgrims definitely misinterpreted the Bible when they thought communism was the way to go. The Bible does not favor collectivism, it instead focuses on individual responsibility and that person’s moral commitment.
Ah, we find agreement.
Will Lee S understand and find agreement with these points? Remains to be seen.
Have a great Thanksgiving.