Comments on: Trump administration drafting new space agreement to supersede Outer Space Treaty

By: sippin_bourbon

sippin_bourbon — Thu, 07 May 2020 16:52:16 +0000

To date, “The Moon is a Harsh Mistress” is in my top 10 sci-fi books of all time.
I love teaching people TANSTAAFL. ( I wish I could get it on my license plate, but vanity plates here are limited to 8 characters.)

I think we are way ahead of ourselves here, talking about Lunar Independence.

I really do not see people ever wanting to live there 100% of their lives. Work? Yes. Make money? Sure, Live and die there, not so much.

I do like the direction this is going tho. I cringe when reading or viewing sci-fi that has the moon as some form of a UN protectorate. That is a good way to stifle innovation.

By: DougSpace

DougSpace — Wed, 06 May 2020 11:48:23 +0000

To follow up on what Mike Shupp said…

Eventually the number of settlers of any given language (or other) type will reach a point where they will feel like they deserve sovereignty. Declaring so would be pretty easy to do and no earthy country is going to spend the resources to militarily stop them. I also think that there would be countries on Earth (especially countries of the same language) that would be fine with it and would recognize them. The OST wouldn’t apply because these new nations are not signatories. At that point the new counties would be fait accomplis.

However, what borders would be recognized given that this safety zone approach allows for the interlocking of people types? That lack of planning could be the basis for non-recognition and even conflict.

I would propose a Nortwest Ordinance approach in which logical territorial lines are drawn beforehand (probably multilaterally and not via a treaty) so that settlers can have an idea if which type of country they were moving to. For example, if you move to the territory that a lot of Mormons are moving to, don’t be surprised if you end up in a Mormon country. Same with libertarians, muslims, Portuguese speakers, etc.

However, there also needs to be an agreement that polar volatiles should be available at market rates to any country on the Moon. Self-driving vehicles would be able to transport volatiles from the pole to equator in about 22 hours so settlements can be supported on all parts of the Moon fairly early on. The Moon needs to be a free market zone for itself.

DevelopSpace.info/roads
DevelopSpace.info/countries

By: NavyNuke

NavyNuke — Wed, 06 May 2020 11:38:55 +0000

Independence shouldn’t require x% of self sufficiency. There are many island nations that rely on food imports to produce the majority of their food. Some also rely on fresh water imports. Population size shouldn’t be a requirement either. Musk’s colony on Mars should be self-governing long before it reaches a 1M population. IMO

By: mike shupp

mike shupp — Wed, 06 May 2020 10:40:41 +0000

One thing I’d like to see: It ought to be possible for inhabitants of reasonably self-sustaining colonies on the moon or elsewhere to declare their independence and have that recognized by earthly nations. Yes, reading THE MOON IS A HARSH MISTRESS was a load of fun, but No, it shouldn’t take a war.

By: wayne

wayne — Wed, 06 May 2020 03:12:44 +0000

Shaun–
Go to the “about” tab from the menu—Mr. Z’s email is at the bottom of the text.

By: Chris Lopes

Chris Lopes — Wed, 06 May 2020 01:39:12 +0000

The original space treaty only passed because the use of extraterrestrial resources was then purely theoretical. Once the ability to actually exploit those resources becomes probable, all bets are off. Does anyone here think the Russians or the Chinese would let a little ole treaty stop them from mining the Moon or the Asteroids if there was a big enough profit in it?

By: David K

David K — Wed, 06 May 2020 01:08:20 +0000

The US is relatively unique in that most resource mining is privately owned. So it may be hard to get other countries on board with the concept.

On the other hand there might soon be US companies like SpaceX and Blue Origin actually going out and doing things with the help of NASA, while all other countries are just talking and pointing fingers.

If that happens, other countries will soon come onboard because it is clear who is leading the future.

By: Shaun

Shaun — Wed, 06 May 2020 00:44:03 +0000

Bob,

How does does one get ahold of you for evening pause ideas?