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	Comments on: Trump exits Paris climate agreement	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Edward		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/trump-exits-paris-climate-agreement/#comment-990714</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Edward]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jun 2017 19:38:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://behindtheblack.com/?p=45922#comment-990714</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Garry wrote: &quot;&lt;i&gt;Trump hasn’t pulled out of the Paris Agreement; he’s merely announced that he is going to do so, while saying that he would like to renegotiate it.&lt;/i&gt;

&quot;&lt;i&gt;Given that he sees everything through the lens of &#039;negotiation,&#039; is he actually going to pull out, or is he just holding that as a threat in his efforts to get a better deal?&lt;/i&gt;&quot; 

I noticed this, too.  He certainly is not adamant about being skeptical of AGW.  As wayne noted, Trump often &quot;keeps&quot; his promises, but not in the way he led us to expect.  We may end up with an “&lt;i&gt;even more wonderful plan.&lt;/i&gt;”  

Garry wrote: &quot;&lt;i&gt;I don’t completely trust any politician, and don’t yet have a real good feel for how Trump acts.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

&quot;Repeal and replace&quot; with a similarly disastrous plan seems to be a modus operandi.  &quot;Put it in writing so that it can be stopped by the courts&quot; seems to be another.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Garry wrote: &#8220;<i>Trump hasn’t pulled out of the Paris Agreement; he’s merely announced that he is going to do so, while saying that he would like to renegotiate it.</i></p>
<p>&#8220;<i>Given that he sees everything through the lens of &#8216;negotiation,&#8217; is he actually going to pull out, or is he just holding that as a threat in his efforts to get a better deal?</i>&#8221; </p>
<p>I noticed this, too.  He certainly is not adamant about being skeptical of AGW.  As wayne noted, Trump often &#8220;keeps&#8221; his promises, but not in the way he led us to expect.  We may end up with an “<i>even more wonderful plan.</i>”  </p>
<p>Garry wrote: &#8220;<i>I don’t completely trust any politician, and don’t yet have a real good feel for how Trump acts.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Repeal and replace&#8221; with a similarly disastrous plan seems to be a modus operandi.  &#8220;Put it in writing so that it can be stopped by the courts&#8221; seems to be another.</p>
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		<title>
		By: wayne		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/trump-exits-paris-climate-agreement/#comment-990623</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[wayne]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jun 2017 15:51:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://behindtheblack.com/?p=45922#comment-990623</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Garry--
good stuff.

We&#039;re not out, until we are actually, out. 
In the meantime, the cash still flows, out of our Treasury, the wrong way.
(Tillerson-- he&#039;s never met a carbon-tax scheme, he didn&#039;t love.)

Just wait until Priebus, Ryan, and Mitch, cook up a &quot;better scheme,&quot; when they &quot;exit, but replace,&quot; with an &quot;even more wonderful plan.&quot;
Said it many times before; Trump loves our LGBTQNAACP, United Mine workers, who also assemble cars in the off-season, for the United Auto Workers.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Garry&#8211;<br />
good stuff.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re not out, until we are actually, out.<br />
In the meantime, the cash still flows, out of our Treasury, the wrong way.<br />
(Tillerson&#8211; he&#8217;s never met a carbon-tax scheme, he didn&#8217;t love.)</p>
<p>Just wait until Priebus, Ryan, and Mitch, cook up a &#8220;better scheme,&#8221; when they &#8220;exit, but replace,&#8221; with an &#8220;even more wonderful plan.&#8221;<br />
Said it many times before; Trump loves our LGBTQNAACP, United Mine workers, who also assemble cars in the off-season, for the United Auto Workers.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Garry		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/trump-exits-paris-climate-agreement/#comment-990609</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Garry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jun 2017 15:20:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://behindtheblack.com/?p=45922#comment-990609</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I hate to rain on anybody&#039;s parade, but Trump hasn&#039;t pulled out of the Paris Agreement; he&#039;s merely announced that he is going to do so, while saying that he would like to renegotiate it.

Given that he sees everything through the lens of &quot;negotiation,&quot; is he actually going to pull out, or is he just holding that as a threat in his efforts to get a better deal?  I think he&#039;s going to pull out, but am not 100 percent convinced; I don&#039;t completely trust any politician, and don&#039;t yet have a real good feel for how Trump acts.

I would like to see an action to actually pull out, preferably the quickest way possible.

And I have not read anything about what happens between the time we submit the documents to pull out, and when the pull-out become effective (anywhere from a year to 4 years, depending on the route).  Wish I had more time to research that, or that journalists would do their background work and spell it out for us.

The most likely long-term result is what happened with the Kyoto Protocol: the US was one of the few countries not to sign on, yet was also one of the countries to achieve its goal as stated in the Protocol.  I&#039;d be good with that, so long as the CO2 reductions come from economically rational decisions (which is probably a result of the US not signing on to Kyoto, and a cause of the achievement of the goal).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hate to rain on anybody&#8217;s parade, but Trump hasn&#8217;t pulled out of the Paris Agreement; he&#8217;s merely announced that he is going to do so, while saying that he would like to renegotiate it.</p>
<p>Given that he sees everything through the lens of &#8220;negotiation,&#8221; is he actually going to pull out, or is he just holding that as a threat in his efforts to get a better deal?  I think he&#8217;s going to pull out, but am not 100 percent convinced; I don&#8217;t completely trust any politician, and don&#8217;t yet have a real good feel for how Trump acts.</p>
<p>I would like to see an action to actually pull out, preferably the quickest way possible.</p>
<p>And I have not read anything about what happens between the time we submit the documents to pull out, and when the pull-out become effective (anywhere from a year to 4 years, depending on the route).  Wish I had more time to research that, or that journalists would do their background work and spell it out for us.</p>
<p>The most likely long-term result is what happened with the Kyoto Protocol: the US was one of the few countries not to sign on, yet was also one of the countries to achieve its goal as stated in the Protocol.  I&#8217;d be good with that, so long as the CO2 reductions come from economically rational decisions (which is probably a result of the US not signing on to Kyoto, and a cause of the achievement of the goal).</p>
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		<title>
		By: wayne		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/trump-exits-paris-climate-agreement/#comment-990589</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[wayne]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jun 2017 14:43:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://behindtheblack.com/?p=45922#comment-990589</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Alex--
thanks for that factoid. 
How much does that 100 kWh&#039;s cost you?? (Can you convert that to US dollars?)

How much is gasoline in your Country?  In Michigan, we are hovering around $2.40, the US gallon. (128 ounces)
Milk-- &quot;$1.78 a gallon, at Walmart. (&quot;Live better, spend less, Walmart.&quot;) 
((who, btw, receive 18% of gross revenues &#038; 10% of gross profits, from the SNAP  (&quot;food stamps&quot;) program.))]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex&#8211;<br />
thanks for that factoid.<br />
How much does that 100 kWh&#8217;s cost you?? (Can you convert that to US dollars?)</p>
<p>How much is gasoline in your Country?  In Michigan, we are hovering around $2.40, the US gallon. (128 ounces)<br />
Milk&#8211; &#8220;$1.78 a gallon, at Walmart. (&#8220;Live better, spend less, Walmart.&#8221;)<br />
((who, btw, receive 18% of gross revenues &amp; 10% of gross profits, from the SNAP  (&#8220;food stamps&#8221;) program.))</p>
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		<title>
		By: Alex		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/trump-exits-paris-climate-agreement/#comment-990569</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alex]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jun 2017 14:06:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://behindtheblack.com/?p=45922#comment-990569</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@wayne:

 I use about 100 kWh a month (or 1200 kWh / year), that is 0,5% of El Gore&#039;s consumption!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@wayne:</p>
<p> I use about 100 kWh a month (or 1200 kWh / year), that is 0,5% of El Gore&#8217;s consumption!</p>
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		<title>
		By: wayne		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/trump-exits-paris-climate-agreement/#comment-990270</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[wayne]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jun 2017 00:38:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://behindtheblack.com/?p=45922#comment-990270</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Garry--
thank you. I know the area of which you speak--- doesn&#039;t often get that warm &quot;up north&quot;, but once you install the A/C, you never go back! (I drove for 20 years without car A/C, now I wouldn&#039;t leave the driveway without it.)
Electric costs me 15 cents kWh, all-in. (SW Michigan shoreline. Natural Gas, Coal, and Nuclear, in that order, account for 80% of State generation.)
It does gets ungodly hot (humid) in Michigan, although that is generally confined to July-August. Lake Michigan moderates a lot of my extremes, and the interior is generally warmer in the Summer &#038; colder in the Winter.

Max--
Musk was only one of &#039;like&#039; 20 people that voluntarily serve on the economic advisory panel. (They only meet 1x a month. It&#039;s largely a show-panel.)

Musk is a Crony Statist, at heart. He may or may not be a radical-egalitarian, but he&#039;s  definitely a utopian Statist. One things he is not, is the Poster Boy for honest capitalism.
His rockets work, but he&#039;s not driven by profit per se, he wants to die on Mars. 
Tesla and Solar City (started by his cousin) are textbook examples of hand-in-glove industrial crony policy. (Paypal made money, Tesla &#038; Solar City, do not. )

tangentially-- I wish all these people would shut up. 
I had to listen to them lecture me and spout all their blatant lies non-stop 24/7, for 8 years, totally completely sick of it all.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Garry&#8211;<br />
thank you. I know the area of which you speak&#8212; doesn&#8217;t often get that warm &#8220;up north&#8221;, but once you install the A/C, you never go back! (I drove for 20 years without car A/C, now I wouldn&#8217;t leave the driveway without it.)<br />
Electric costs me 15 cents kWh, all-in. (SW Michigan shoreline. Natural Gas, Coal, and Nuclear, in that order, account for 80% of State generation.)<br />
It does gets ungodly hot (humid) in Michigan, although that is generally confined to July-August. Lake Michigan moderates a lot of my extremes, and the interior is generally warmer in the Summer &amp; colder in the Winter.</p>
<p>Max&#8211;<br />
Musk was only one of &#8216;like&#8217; 20 people that voluntarily serve on the economic advisory panel. (They only meet 1x a month. It&#8217;s largely a show-panel.)</p>
<p>Musk is a Crony Statist, at heart. He may or may not be a radical-egalitarian, but he&#8217;s  definitely a utopian Statist. One things he is not, is the Poster Boy for honest capitalism.<br />
His rockets work, but he&#8217;s not driven by profit per se, he wants to die on Mars.<br />
Tesla and Solar City (started by his cousin) are textbook examples of hand-in-glove industrial crony policy. (Paypal made money, Tesla &amp; Solar City, do not. )</p>
<p>tangentially&#8211; I wish all these people would shut up.<br />
I had to listen to them lecture me and spout all their blatant lies non-stop 24/7, for 8 years, totally completely sick of it all.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Garry		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/trump-exits-paris-climate-agreement/#comment-990261</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Garry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jun 2017 00:12:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://behindtheblack.com/?p=45922#comment-990261</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Wayne, you asked in another thread how much electricity costs in Connecticut: we&#039;re currently paying 13 cents per kWh. We were paying much more until my wife took a close look at our bill and found that buying directly from the utility was a better deal.

It&#039;s funny you find it necessary to say that you use air conditioning in Michigan; my only visit to Michigan was in the mid 80s when I was stranded for a few days at (now closed) Wurtsmith Air Force Base in Oscoda.  They told us it was a record setting temperature at the time; I don&#039;t remember what it was, but it was well over 100 degrees.

I know Michigan has a relatively cold climate, but because of that experience my first thought when I hear Michigan is &quot;that hot place.&quot;

Similarly, I have a friend who stayed with us for 10 days and the sun never came out, which was unusual.  To this day he says &quot;next time someone tells me to stick something where the sun don&#039;t shine, I&#039;m taking it to Connecticut.&quot;

Local weather has more variation and is more complicated than the &quot;experts&quot; insist.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wayne, you asked in another thread how much electricity costs in Connecticut: we&#8217;re currently paying 13 cents per kWh. We were paying much more until my wife took a close look at our bill and found that buying directly from the utility was a better deal.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s funny you find it necessary to say that you use air conditioning in Michigan; my only visit to Michigan was in the mid 80s when I was stranded for a few days at (now closed) Wurtsmith Air Force Base in Oscoda.  They told us it was a record setting temperature at the time; I don&#8217;t remember what it was, but it was well over 100 degrees.</p>
<p>I know Michigan has a relatively cold climate, but because of that experience my first thought when I hear Michigan is &#8220;that hot place.&#8221;</p>
<p>Similarly, I have a friend who stayed with us for 10 days and the sun never came out, which was unusual.  To this day he says &#8220;next time someone tells me to stick something where the sun don&#8217;t shine, I&#8217;m taking it to Connecticut.&#8221;</p>
<p>Local weather has more variation and is more complicated than the &#8220;experts&#8221; insist.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Max		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/trump-exits-paris-climate-agreement/#comment-989917</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Max]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jun 2017 07:59:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://behindtheblack.com/?p=45922#comment-989917</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Elon musk and other CEOs are leaving the Trump administration. 
http://fortune.com/2017/06/01/elon-musk-trump-paris-agreement/
     It would be great if he could give a detailed response to trumps speech, So we can all admire his reason for leaving as a well-thought-out correct response that he thinks it is. It would give us some insight on how this man&#039;s brain works…]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elon musk and other CEOs are leaving the Trump administration.<br />
<a href="http://fortune.com/2017/06/01/elon-musk-trump-paris-agreement/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://fortune.com/2017/06/01/elon-musk-trump-paris-agreement/</a><br />
     It would be great if he could give a detailed response to trumps speech, So we can all admire his reason for leaving as a well-thought-out correct response that he thinks it is. It would give us some insight on how this man&#8217;s brain works…</p>
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		<title>
		By: Willi		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/trump-exits-paris-climate-agreement/#comment-989704</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Willi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jun 2017 22:43:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://behindtheblack.com/?p=45922#comment-989704</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[i&#039;m on the mailing list maintained by  &quot;Senate Conservatives Action&quot;.  I just received a message from them asking me to thank President Trump for his action on the Paris accord by sending him a thank-you form letter via email.  The process of sending the form letter gave me a chance to edit the letter.  So, I retained the first sentence that said &quot;thank you&quot; and replaced the remainder with words about how I disapproved of his breaking his promise to move Israel&#039;s capitol and would be voting against him in the 2020 Republican presidential primary.  Probably a useless gesture but it made me feel better.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i&#8217;m on the mailing list maintained by  &#8220;Senate Conservatives Action&#8221;.  I just received a message from them asking me to thank President Trump for his action on the Paris accord by sending him a thank-you form letter via email.  The process of sending the form letter gave me a chance to edit the letter.  So, I retained the first sentence that said &#8220;thank you&#8221; and replaced the remainder with words about how I disapproved of his breaking his promise to move Israel&#8217;s capitol and would be voting against him in the 2020 Republican presidential primary.  Probably a useless gesture but it made me feel better.</p>
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		<title>
		By: wayne		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/trump-exits-paris-climate-agreement/#comment-989669</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[wayne]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jun 2017 21:04:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://behindtheblack.com/?p=45922#comment-989669</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This is a good thing from Trump.

Cotour--
- an inconvenient truth about Al Gore, I know you will enjoy:

in brief; his house in Tennessee, circa 2007-- &quot;... uses an average of 17,768 kWh of electricity per month.&quot; 
And this was apparently UP from the previous year, after he bragged about installing new insulation and additional solar-panels, blah, blah, blah.

Disingenuous liar, is he.

one of many articles that appeared at the time-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/2153179/Al-Gores-electricity-bill-goes-through-the-insulated-roof.html

Personally, I use about 500 +/- kWh a month, 700-800/month during the Summer air-conditioning Season. 15 cents a kWh, all-in.
 (1,800 sq ft house) ((yes, we do use A/C in Michigan))]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a good thing from Trump.</p>
<p>Cotour&#8211;<br />
&#8211; an inconvenient truth about Al Gore, I know you will enjoy:</p>
<p>in brief; his house in Tennessee, circa 2007&#8211; &#8220;&#8230; uses an average of 17,768 kWh of electricity per month.&#8221;<br />
And this was apparently UP from the previous year, after he bragged about installing new insulation and additional solar-panels, blah, blah, blah.</p>
<p>Disingenuous liar, is he.</p>
<p>one of many articles that appeared at the time-</p>
<p><a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/2153179/Al-Gores-electricity-bill-goes-through-the-insulated-roof.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/2153179/Al-Gores-electricity-bill-goes-through-the-insulated-roof.html</a></p>
<p>Personally, I use about 500 +/- kWh a month, 700-800/month during the Summer air-conditioning Season. 15 cents a kWh, all-in.<br />
 (1,800 sq ft house) ((yes, we do use A/C in Michigan))</p>
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		<title>
		By: Cotour		</title>
		<link>https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/trump-exits-paris-climate-agreement/#comment-989659</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cotour]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jun 2017 20:42:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://behindtheblack.com/?p=45922#comment-989659</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[And this is the correlation that the media is making:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/massive-crack-antarctic-ice-shelf-grows-11-miles-article-1.3213327

Trump could have stopped that crack! 

But he chose not to.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And this is the correlation that the media is making:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/massive-crack-antarctic-ice-shelf-grows-11-miles-article-1.3213327" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/massive-crack-antarctic-ice-shelf-grows-11-miles-article-1.3213327</a></p>
<p>Trump could have stopped that crack! </p>
<p>But he chose not to.</p>
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