Now we just have to figure out who the American Churchill will be who must raise themselves up, Trump, Cruz, Kasich or maybe Paul Ryan?

Actual reasonable, benevolent, vectored and focused American leadership solves this and any other problem that may present itself. What we have right now in many ways is a president and his surrounding administration that are documented to be very UN American leftists. There is a word that describes them and that word is treasonous.

So quibble about the level or intensity and / or the possible strategy that may or may not be effective to keep yourselves busy, I call that being immersed in minutia, its a distraction. It is real American leadership that solves what needs to be solved.

BSJ: You have been asked several times now for your suggested solution with no response except additional criticism of what has been tried in the past.

Can we assume you would have us do nothing? Or worse, do you recommend appeasement?

Highly recommend you check out a segment on The John Batchelor Show, from yesterday.
“Hell To Pay: Operation Downfall & the Invasion of Japan, 1945-47” D.M. Giangreco

When you mention “a suicidal death cult,” elements of the Japanese were about as close to that as you get. Our current enemy is even worse

http://www.johnbatchelorshow.com

Again I would ask a second time– what is your solution? Enlighten us all.

It’s easy to criticize, what we haven’t even tried yet.

We call our WW-2 era fellow-American’s, The Greatest Generation. It wasn’t because they whined about, what they had to do.

“May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won’t.”
General George S. Patton, Jr.

“Seven years of tough on terror Bush got us what? A completely destabilized Middle East and North Africa. And the Patriot Act!”

I love how you somehow skip the period near the end of the Bush administration and the beginning of the Obama administration where things were going so well in Iraq and the Middle East that Obama declared victory and pulled out all our troops. At that moment Iraq and the Middle East were actually quite stable, the result of a shift in policy by the Bush administration in the middle of the war in Iraq that finally made our effort effective.

That shift, dubbed “the surge,” worked. The problem is that it wasn’t finished. Just as it took many years before things stabilized in Germany after World War II, we needed to give it more time in Iraq. Obama however retreated prematurely, and allowed the situation to fall apart.

I see this debate tactic by partisan Democrats all the time. The failure in the Middle East is always blamed entirely on Bush, even though things were actually doing well when he left office and were then badly damaged by policies then imposed by Obama.

Moreover, you use the failure of the Nazi bombing of Great Britain as an argument to say that full scale war never works, but then ignore the bombing done by the Allies, followed by a full invasion, that did work. The reason the Nazis failed is because they never followed up with a full invasion. They made a half-assed commitment to defeating England, much like we have made a half-assed commitment to defeating Islam. That always fails.

In World War II the Allies demanded unconditional victory, and got it. The result was more than a half century of peace worldwide. Today, we wimp out, and the world is becoming increasingly violent and unstable.

One more thing: The Patriot Act was passed in response to September 11, not the war in Iraq. I despise it, as you do, but that doesn’t make it appropriate to use it inappropriately as a club in debate.

No need for them to “roll over” and say they are sorry– they’d be dead and rotting. We’re past all that lefty-pacifism appeasement stuff.

If you don’t think we COULD kill *enough of them to matter,* explain your solution.

Bush–tough on terror? Hardly. He was more concerned with Medicare Part D & “abandoning the free-market, to save the free-market.” Whatever that meant.
Bush gave us Obama, much like Hoover gave us FDR.
Bush was the most profligate spender in history, until Obama tripled down.

As for WW-2, I believe you are mistaken over the facts. The Luftwaffe came within days of destroying the entire RAF. For some inexplicable reason they lost their will & resolve at the pivotal moment.

The Nazis thought they could bomb Britain into submission. How’d that work out? If anything, it made Britain stronger and more cohesive. Most of Germany was bombed to rubble, when did they surrender? After a long and bloody ground war.

How would a suicidal death cult respond to the wholesale slaughter of the people they claim be fighting for? Yeah, they’d just roll over and say “Sorry for the misunderstanding.”

In ten years when we’re even less secure, and even more broke will you guys still be singing the same old song?

http://www.tulsabeacon.com/article/why-did-president-jimmy-carter-give-away-the-panama-canal

Lets all understand that these politicians resisted the powers that be / military industrial complex, what have you, in similar ways and IMO looked for things to surrender or give back or stand down on that America has done or appropriated “immorally”.

Strategy dictates that you never give up anything in the context of your country’s security, nothing, unless properly compensated related to that security. These people, both Carter and Obama, “moral literalists” both are applying their own leftist / liberal / political morality to issues that should only be based in strategy.

It is difficult to make these distinctions from our every day perspective but the distinctions must be made and the general rules of operation related to security must be followed.

Carter resisted it with the Panama Canal, Kennedy resisted his generals and the CIA with resisting to invade Cuba and Viet Nam (and paid a high price), Obama out paces them all and has empowered an enemy with nuclear weapons, and many many more things against Americas interests. Obama seeks to for ever lessen Americas power in the world so we can no longer exploit it (his leftist interpretation).

There are other ways to resist agendas that are counter to your beliefs and not your own without essentially trading away your own country’s sovereignty and Constitution. In all fairness it may be easy to sit as an outsider and criticize but sometime some empowered politicians given the opportunity go much too far.

This has always been the case. Do you think that there was no sabotage during WWII? Now, as then, we are told to be vigilant. Of course, CAIR bitterly complains when one of their terrorists is found out, and the PC crowd caves in to their demands and punishes the alert citizen. It is not the five guys in the garage that is the problem, it is the PC crowd that is the problem.

BSJ also wrote: “Do you really think that if we just bombed them a little more, or tortured a few more captives it would make one bit of difference?”

Only a quarter billion Muslims agree that terrorism is appropriate behavior for Muslims. Maybe if they were bombed then they would adjust their attitude. If not, then those are the ones that need to be bombed out of existence.

The others may be willing to change or reform their religion to one of actual peace, not just supposed peace.

BSJ also wrote: “We are well on our way down that path. But all you guys can see or think, is that we need to just keep ‘digging the hole’ deeper and deeper. So very sad.”

No, we want to change the direction that our fearful leader is taking us. We want a different path, one that has worked with Islamist terrorists in the recent past. That is the entire point of this thread. They attack and we get lectured that we are Islamophobic because we are dissatisfied that we got attacked.

Of Course we are dissatisfied. Doing nothing has only strengthened the terrorists, but when we spent all that money that you, BSJ, complain about, the terrorists were badly hampered, and we did not get much in the way of terrorism outside of Muslim-controlled countries.

Now that we are doing as you, BSJ, seem to want — nothing — terrorists took back the territory that we so dearly paid for (the price in blood and treasure that you complain about), and the terrorism has increased in number, intensity, and scope: the whole world, including our neighborhoods. Yet:

Pzatchok asked BSJ on March 22, 2016 at 11:07 am: “So whats your suggestion on what we should do BSJ?”

And all we got back from BSJ was another rant that what has been shown to work in the past decade will not work now, because … what … BSJ says so?

Cotour wrote, immediately above: “[Obama] just does not want to have to adopt the “white mans” mode of operation and oppression.”

Unfortunately for Obama, this mode of operation and oppression is the same as every other color of man. It is the mode of operation and oppression that even civilized societies have used until a couple of centuries ago, when the US started to adopt less oppressive operations: not partaking in the spoils of war.

It was the US that started giving conquered territory back to its peoples. Cuba is a timely example. We even gave back the Philippines when they asked to stop being a territory and become an independent nation. The Left talks about taking the oil from conquered countries, but we don’t do it. Iraq is a recent example. The US is the first “colonial nation” to not be colonial.

But the idiot president does not know this. He thinks that we are the barbarians, not the ones that he coddles — the ones who attack us while he watches baseball and tangos. That is not a good mode of operation, and it allows oppression to continue unfettered.

Our own president is our own worst enemy related to our security and our economy. Think about that for a while, our own president empowers with NUCLEAR WEAPONS and the means to launch them way beyond their desert oasis.

My only way to Big picture interpret this, knowing Obama and what are his personal objectives probably are given his history and actions is.

1. He will do nothing of any military consequence in the world, he just does not want to have to adopt the “white mans” mode of operation and oppression.

And

2. Well, #1 supersedes all other agendas.

Its much safer for him and his belief system, and anything of a violent or negative nature that happens as a result of his adopted strategy is probably deserved by America and most of the racist Americans and it may bring about that fundamental change that he talks about.

Where’s that Patton clip, when we need it?! (the part about “making the other guy die, for his country.”)

On board with most of what you opine, with minor qualifications, that do not negate your thoughts at all.
> Especially agree however, with the first part of your last sentence!
As you say, I (as well) don’t care if they talk-smack about us at the oasis, but the Iranian’s are building A-bombs & have ICBM’s.

For that alone, (IMO) I am convinced, “enough of them have to die quickly right now” to preserve our Country. The smart one’s in Iran, tried to rise-up, our current Regime did nothing to help them. I’m sorry they will suffer, when we are forced into annihilating huge numbers of them. The blood is on Obama’s hands, not mine.
——————-
Personally, I just want huge numbers of our enemies, killed dead & gone. ( if that makes me a “bad-person,” I can sleep at night, no problem.)
——————
The trouble with these half-measures (no-measures), is *exactly as BSJ opines.* We wouldn’t “need” a “police-state” to “protect us,” if we eliminated the threat in the first place and didn’t intentional import them to our shores.

Whaddayathink??

I do not care if a bunch of Eastern civilization guys are sitting around a camp fire curled up with their camels in the desert talking smack about america, but we have in many ways empowered and in fact encouraged them to move from their camp fires into our Western civilization cities where they can now show us how much they despise us.

Pure BIG THINK liberal logic and morality, that’s going to be causing a lot of destruction, lets hope its creative.

You figuratively kill me. (Or at least your policy’s, would literally do so.)

Personally,…don’t want to torture any of them. I want *enough of them killed* & *enough of their cities,* turned to ruble, until they capitulate completely.
No quarter. We start with their leaders, then work outward until their people surrender, then we come home. No “democracy projects,” rebuilding *their stuff* or worrying a whole lot about *their suffering.*

These “people” have never tasted the awesome power of our military, primarily because our leaders are weak & have some sort death-wish for our Society & Modernity in general.

When have we actually “bombed” them? When did we ever actually attack these people, with our full might, with the full intent, to really destroy them?

A: We haven’t.

“Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long & hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival.”
Winston Churchill

Five guys with a couple of hundred dollars of garage chemistry and a willingness to die for a cause, defeats the whole system!

You guys crack me up. Do you really think that if we just bombed them a little more, or tortured a few more captives it would make one bit of difference?

We are bankrupting ourselves in the name of “doing something”. They set off a $200 bomb and kill a few dozen people. We spend a $100 million to retaliate. They set off another $200 bomb, we spend yet another $100 million. On and on.

They’re killing us by letting us kill ourselves with a 100 billion self-inflicted cuts. We are playing into their hands. And they know it!

History is replete with great societies and powerful Empires that brought about their own ends by involving themselves in endless foreign wars.

They all thought that defeating those enemies was the most important thing to do, so they just bombed a little harder. Oppressed a little more. Expended more blood and treasure. But the result was always the same. Eventual collapse.

We are well on our way down that path. But all you guys can see or think, is that we need to just keep ‘digging the hole’ deeper and deeper. So very sad.

–exactly. I take no joy in advocating we have to kill a whole lot of the enemy & break huge amounts of his stuff, but if I have a choice—they die, we live.

Referencing Star Trek:
That’s a pretty good episode! (Star Trek TOS: A Taste of Armageddon) Generally don’t enjoy the overt morality-play episodes, but they did that topic quite well.

Referencing Obama: He *was* born in Hawaii, but he didn’t grow-up in America– spent 10 years in Kenya before he came back. His father was a communist (abandoned him) his mother was a communist (abandoned him) & his mentor was Frank Marshal Davis (communist) When Obama wasn’t snorting coke & smoking weed (his own Book) he was being indoctrinated to hate America. He has Zero “shared-cultural-experiences” with the vast majority of regular American’s.
Now he’s the President, lives like a KING, & endlessly lectures us on how bad WE are.

Posted two good links in the “Fuel for Russia’s Nuclear Space Engine” post, you might enjoy.
Concerning our “Nuclear Engine for Rocket Vehicle Application” program in the 1950/60’s

Robert wrote: “This religion must change, or be destroyed. We have no choice.”

This is true. The current nature of this religion is to overrun and destroy all others. It is in its very name: “Islam,” which translates into “submission.” It is a religion of submission, not only for its own followers but for the infidels as well. Since its founding, Islam has been in a struggle with the rest of the world, often to the point of war. Submit to Islam or die. Islamists have started this war of terrorism because of that philosophy.

They may not like the crusades, but they started them. Their influence has ebbed and flowed, throughout the centuries. It was not until after the Islamic Moors had been thrown from Spain that the Spanish were able to explore new trade routes, which resulted in the discovery of a new world in the west.

Islam and Islamists can be defeated. It just takes a will to do so.

As for the fear that wars are too messy, they are meant to be messy. That is why they are not peace. There was a “Star Trek” episode that explained how a non-messy war only encourages war ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708414/?ref_=ttep_ep24 ). Messy wars provided incentives for ending the war with a victor and a vanquished. In this war, which Islamists have declared against the world, we must be the victor, or else we will be the vanquished.

Obama may not know what victory looks like, but intelligent people do.

That, I would proffer, is exactly what we have been forced into doing & is now the only way to preserve modernity.

War is a nasty business, all the more reason to never allow us to be forced into it, in the first place. Being weak only invites aggression.

Christianity had the Reformation, the Muslims are still living in the 13th century, but now they have 21st century weapons.
At least with the old soviet-union, they actually valued their Country. We could keep them in check to a large degree, while we waited for their system to implode.
–In Vietnam, we chose not to win for internal political reasons, we specifically excluded fire-bombing Hanoi. It was “off-limits” to our Air Force. 50K of our sons & daughters died.
–We have a Naval Base in Cuba– if we wanted to liberate that Island, we could, we choose not too, again for internal political reasons.
–The Germans only surrendered after Hitler killed himself & the Soviets over-ran Berlin.
If not for relentless bombing, Albert Speer could have kept production of armaments as high as 60% of pre-war levels. The people had NO choice but to submit to our will.
–We were preparing to invade Japan, Fall of 1945 & had previously reduced dozens of square-miles of Tokyo to ash, killing vastly more people than 2 atomic bombs. Only when the War-Party submitted to the Emperor, did they surrender, on our terms. And at least the Emperor valued the existence of his Country & was willing to sacrifice his own position for the Japanese people. Again, we showed mercy to them & did not execute their Emperor.

This is going to be extremely messy, brutal, and horrific. I have no joy in the undertaking, if it’s “enough of them, or Us,” I choose, us. The Media & the Left, will go berserk & blame us for every single death, ad-infinitum.
Somehow in their twisted logic, it’s morally preferable that we should perish from the Earth & return to the 13th Century.
—–
“Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.”
Patrick Henry
—–
and again–
—–
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night, only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.”
George Orwell.
—–
Cotour– 98% is pretty darn good, eh! We’re back on the same page!
:)

We are, by any measure, THE most generous Nation on the face of the Earth, often to our own detriment. (I believe, in large measure, because we have empathy for those less fortunate, “we’ve been there & done that.” It pain us to know others suffer.)
—Our History, Culture, and Religion demand it of us, but far too many of our fellow citizens & so-called “leaders,” think all we have, is some sort of accident or was inevitable.

I’m being repetitive, but you all know where I stand.

In yet another demonstration of our technology & way-of-life:
>>Check the video of the ULA Atlas 5 launch yesterday, excellent tracking by the camera-guy!

The executive promoting it told a story of a young girl (15 years old) that he had a conversation with and while the conversation happening another youngster (9 years old) came out of the house carrying a nine month old. It turns out in this instance that the nine year old was her brother and the nine month old was HER baby. The father of the child was no longer in the picture.

This story represents in general the condition that WE have created in the entire world where WE are sooo willing to extend the compassionate teat of the riches due to capitalism for all to suckle, without any expectation of any change in behavior!

In this example all food offered to these now needy human beings should come with a panel of information
“this food will render all those who eat it, both male and female unable to reproduce for 5 years.”

Now I understand the compulsion to help where one can help, I do it myself where and when I choose. But this mode of operation and expectation is a foolish and a death spiral type of thinking. And this foolish behavior by Americans has created everything that we are talking about from poverty to terrorism.

Low standards is no standards, and until things like this are genuinely addressed the world will continue down the road to destruction. And again, I am not for one second saying that there should be no such programs that feed the poor, not at all. But they must not be open ended to further create the dependency that the left loves sooo well.

(PS: I will take as a positive 98% of what ever I can get)

The one thing you seem to be forgetting is the lack of Nazis in the world today. When we fought World War II in Europe it was not simply to beat the Germans. Our goal was to destroy Nazism, a movement that, while not as large as Islam, still had an enormous number of dedicated followers, probably at least a third and maybe as much as two thirds of the entire population of Germany and its neighbors. Suggestions in the mid-1930s that this movement be destroyed and wiped out were met with horror and skepticism. “You can’t do it, they are too large. We need merely to contain it.”

So, where is that movement today? In fact, where has it been since 1950? No where.

We literally need to do the same with Islam. This religion must change, or be destroyed. We have no choice. In the past two decades it has revealed itself to be the source of evil in human civilization.

Note also that we won’t have to kill every Muslim to achieve this. Most of its followers outside the Middle East follow this religion quite casually. Take the power away from its leadership and they will change. Show them that Mohammad is a false prophet by attacking Mecca as strongly as we attacked Dresden and the religion will fall.

This will not be easy, but if civilization has any chance, we need to face the problem and do it. For ourselves, our children, and most important of all, for the people who are presently oppressed under the boot of Islam itself.

Pretty much except for Iran their national leaders have been peaceful and the radicals still do their own thing.
The radicals are the wolves that hide in flocks of sheep just to kill the guard dog so they can become the guard dog.

They will never submit to overwhelming military strength.
But their children can be westernized. Yes they tend to kill any of their own children that ‘go western’ but thats pretty much doing our job for us.

In effect the radicals are just a bunch of crazy people who have hooked up together. And we will never kill all the crazy people. So lets work on keeping them down to the Ted Kaczynski level of terrorists. Forced to build their own bombs and forced to make the infrequent deliveries themselves.

Respectfully disagree, with qualifications—if we aren’t fully prepared *to kill enough of them,* we aren’t prepared to kill any of them. This is a war they started.

I am not advocating Genocide (defined as exterminating “..entire ethnic or religious groups..”) just our Enemies

Innocents will suffer, as they always have in any War.
This won’t be antiseptic, clean, “surgical” or nice in any way, shape, or form. And it won’t last a mere 100 hours.
War is Politics, with death & destruction; their death & the destruction of their society, to the point their will & resolve is utterly crushed.
Not the death of our citizens, our society, or our will & resolve.

“We win, they lose.”

–We didn’t have to kill every last German or Japanese in WW-2, we did however have to
*kill enough of them” & reduce *enough* of their population centers to ruble, before they would cease & desist their desires to enslave & kill us. We beat them militarily but more importantly, we broke their psychological will.

Only then did we stop & only then, did we show mercy.

There are 2 billion Muslims in the world, & roughly 80 million Iranians. The stated goal of the Iranian leadership, for one, is to destroy “little Satan”- Israel, and “big Satan,’ which is us.
They are building nuclear weapons & the ICBM’s to deliver them. They fully intend to use them, on Israel & on us.

I would ask– how many of them, are you *willing to kill* to save Israel and the United States?
Personally, I’m willing to kill *as many of them, as it takes.* I’m beyond draft age, but not beyond being blown up at a Shopping Mall or by a nuclear weapon.

My Daughter & Grand-Daughter would have to fight to save our Nation & Culture—it’s apparently the “progressive thing to do nowadays,” — send our daughters, wives, sisters & mother’s of our children into battle.
Personally– I’d sacrifice all our Enemies to preserve our way of life, but it won’t take that many, *just enough of them,* then we go home, then we show mercy. No deals, no armistice, only victory

If we wanted to “commit genocide” we could do it 100% but that’s not who we are–it’s who THEY are.
If we aren’t prepared to do everything it takes, we should just surrender & submit right now, & wait terrified, until they kill us all.

“It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace–but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!
Patrick Henry

That IS, who we are. If we don’t wake up fast, will only be, who we WERE.

Our friends do not trust us, our enemies do not fear or respect us. Our President hates our Country & has worked tirelessly to undermine us all & deliver us into the hands of our enemies.

Sorry but the US and all other Western Nations just can’t stop influencing the Middle East. Even if we pulled out everything and tried to never contact them. People will always want their rock n roll and Iphones. They will find away to get the internet also.

So unless we drop off the face of the Earth or convert to their version of Islam they will hate us and attack us.

Since we will be in this war I say we take it to them.
We can not wage genocide and kill everyone, but we can keep them from establishing nations for a base of support. We can keep any large fighting in their backyard and not ours.
We can stay ever vigilant and watchful. We can stop doing stupid things like having open boarders and screen any coming in.
In the end teach them that Alla is not on their side. Otherwise they would be winning.

Iran must change some time soon. They are the last nation openly funding terror. Now, before they go nuclear. And in my estimation they will fall like the Iraq army in golf one. If we put our mind and heart to it.
In now way will the cost be more than a nuclear war in the future.

Cotour: on board with 98% of your post.

I think we all know & agree, there is “no plan to defeat isis.” There never was & will never be one under this Regime. Obama will increasingly implement his ongoing plan to further our destruction. The next few month’s will be increasingly weird.
As for Soros; he willingly collaborated with Nazi’s to exterminate human being’s in WW-2. That’s all I ever need to know of his machinations. Now, he profits from Chaos & Disorder. (and…He gave $700K to fund Kasich through to the Convention.)

https://youtu.be/EBK9GS23ZTw

The president is at a baseball game in Cuba, we will have it when he gets back?

Guess what, I do not think there is a plan. The plan is a plan if dis-assembly and standing down. I think it a reasonable conclusion that nothing concerning national security will be accomplished during this Marxist administration.

https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/people/george-soros

Obama instrumental in allowing a foreign company to count American votes.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/item/16724-soros-connected-vote-counting-firm-expands-in-u-s

Does anyone see the problem here? Any one?