What will the Republicans controlling Tennessee’s statehouse do now that Nashville’s City Council has reinstated their expelled representative?
L to R, Gloria Johnson, Justin Jones and Justin Pearson stand at
the podium, using a bullhorn to lead protester chants.
Bring a gun to a knife fight? When the Tennessee House first moved to expel two members, Justin Jones and Justin Pearson, because of their participation in a riot that shut down the legislature on March 30, 2023, I noted the following:
Note that this gigantic Republican majority [75 to 24] reflects the wishes of the voters of Tennessee. If that majority fails to expel these three misbehaving Democrats, just because it is intimidated by the loud and almost violent actions of small minority, it will then prove not only how worthless it is, but that the voters themselves might not have the courage to stand up to these leftist thugs. As I say, the elected officials reflect the wishes of the voters. Weakness now in the statehouse will indicate weakness at all levels.
Subsequently the House did expel two of the three offending representatives (the third surviving by a single vote). In response, the Nashville city council moving to quickly reinstate its expelled representative, Justin Jones. It is expected that tomorrow the local county commission that Justin Pearson represented will reinstate him as well.
We have now reached the bottom line: What will the Republicans who control the statehouse in Tennessee by very wide margins do?
The immediate answer appears to be to capitulate.
Tennessee House Speaker Cameron Sexton will seat the two black Democratic lawmakers who were forced out last week over their protests following a mass school shooting if the county commissions vote them back in, a spokesperson for Sexton said Monday. “The two governing bodies will make the decision as to who they want to appoint to these seats,” the spokesperson told WKRN. “Those two individuals will be seated as representatives as the constitution requires.”
This however is not the final word. Sexton really didn’t have a choice, if he was to follow the law. The two expelled members cannot be expelled a second time for the same offense. And it is the legal right of the local governments to reinstate both men.
Both men however can be expelled again if they misbehave again, such as participate in another riot at the capitol building. If (or more likely when) they do, the response of the Republican majority in the House will tell us a lot about how serious that majority is in enforcing the rule of law, as well as representing the actual voters who put them in office.
Right now this Republican-controlled legislature is facing a full-court press from the leftist press and the Democratic Party. Jones has gotten full support from the Biden administration, has gone of television to accuse the House of being part of a “white supremacist system,” and has spoken at numerous well-attending demonstrations and protests, including a demonstration of 1,000 or so supporters in front of the statehouse. In all these actions the slanders against the Republican House have been vicious and unending, always accusing it falsely of racism and dictatorship.
None of that pressure however appears to be coming from the constituents who voted these Republicans into office. The House was duly elected by the voters of Tennessee, who overwhelmingly wanted to be represented by the Republican Party, by a super-majority exceeding 75%.
Will these representatives represent their constituents, and maintain order in the statehouse? Or will they abide by the demands of their opponents, whom they do not represent but have the bullhorn of the leftist press to scream at them? The next few weeks will tell us.
If they back down — as all other conservative lawmakers have done for decades when faced with screaming leftist protesters — it will either because of their own cowardice, or because of the cowardice of a a handful of the loudest constituents, who also demand they back down.
Such a retreat is clearly not what the voters of Tennessee voted for. What they wanted is what one of the commenters here at Behind the Black recently demanded:
Law-breaking of the most obvious sort must be enforced at the lowest and most individualistic level. Start with the so-calked Red States. Take seriously application of Constitutional Concealed Carry laws. Protect and enhance them so that they are pushed into “Blue” cities. Let no observed pilfering go unpunished— or even, on the spit restitution made, under the draw of arms, as needed.
In other words, the voters in Tennessee have undeniably voted for the rule of law and conservative policies. And the voters did so overwhelmingly, electing a legislature that is more than 75% Republican.
Those elected Republicans should remember this, and realize that those numbers not only put them in charge to lead, the numbers give them a great deal of power to do so. The last thing they should do is listen to the screams of a bunch of spoiled leftist toddlers who throw a tantrum because they don’t get their way.
The next few weeks will tell the tale. If Tennessee Republicans respond as firmly to future riots, expelling any members who participate in the same illegal way, then a great victory will be won. If not, then all will soon be lost, because by backing down they will demonstrate that there is no point in voting for Republicans at all. They will not fight when a fight is not only called for, but they have the power to win it.
On Christmas Eve 1968 three Americans became the first humans to visit another world. What they did to celebrate was unexpected and profound, and will be remembered throughout all human history. Genesis: the Story of Apollo 8, Robert Zimmerman's classic history of humanity's first journey to another world, tells that story, and it is now available as both an ebook and an audiobook, both with a foreword by Valerie Anders and a new introduction by Robert Zimmerman.
The print edition can be purchased at Amazon. from any other book seller, or direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit.
The ebook is available everywhere for $5.99 (before discount) at amazon, or direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit. If you buy it from ebookit you don't support the big tech companies and the author gets a bigger cut much sooner.
The audiobook is also available at all these vendors, and is also free with a 30-day trial membership to Audible.
"Not simply about one mission, [Genesis] is also the history of America's quest for the moon... Zimmerman has done a masterful job of tying disparate events together into a solid account of one of America's greatest human triumphs."--San Antonio Express-News
L to R, Gloria Johnson, Justin Jones and Justin Pearson stand at
the podium, using a bullhorn to lead protester chants.
Bring a gun to a knife fight? When the Tennessee House first moved to expel two members, Justin Jones and Justin Pearson, because of their participation in a riot that shut down the legislature on March 30, 2023, I noted the following:
Note that this gigantic Republican majority [75 to 24] reflects the wishes of the voters of Tennessee. If that majority fails to expel these three misbehaving Democrats, just because it is intimidated by the loud and almost violent actions of small minority, it will then prove not only how worthless it is, but that the voters themselves might not have the courage to stand up to these leftist thugs. As I say, the elected officials reflect the wishes of the voters. Weakness now in the statehouse will indicate weakness at all levels.
Subsequently the House did expel two of the three offending representatives (the third surviving by a single vote). In response, the Nashville city council moving to quickly reinstate its expelled representative, Justin Jones. It is expected that tomorrow the local county commission that Justin Pearson represented will reinstate him as well.
We have now reached the bottom line: What will the Republicans who control the statehouse in Tennessee by very wide margins do?
The immediate answer appears to be to capitulate.
Tennessee House Speaker Cameron Sexton will seat the two black Democratic lawmakers who were forced out last week over their protests following a mass school shooting if the county commissions vote them back in, a spokesperson for Sexton said Monday. “The two governing bodies will make the decision as to who they want to appoint to these seats,” the spokesperson told WKRN. “Those two individuals will be seated as representatives as the constitution requires.”
This however is not the final word. Sexton really didn’t have a choice, if he was to follow the law. The two expelled members cannot be expelled a second time for the same offense. And it is the legal right of the local governments to reinstate both men.
Both men however can be expelled again if they misbehave again, such as participate in another riot at the capitol building. If (or more likely when) they do, the response of the Republican majority in the House will tell us a lot about how serious that majority is in enforcing the rule of law, as well as representing the actual voters who put them in office.
Right now this Republican-controlled legislature is facing a full-court press from the leftist press and the Democratic Party. Jones has gotten full support from the Biden administration, has gone of television to accuse the House of being part of a “white supremacist system,” and has spoken at numerous well-attending demonstrations and protests, including a demonstration of 1,000 or so supporters in front of the statehouse. In all these actions the slanders against the Republican House have been vicious and unending, always accusing it falsely of racism and dictatorship.
None of that pressure however appears to be coming from the constituents who voted these Republicans into office. The House was duly elected by the voters of Tennessee, who overwhelmingly wanted to be represented by the Republican Party, by a super-majority exceeding 75%.
Will these representatives represent their constituents, and maintain order in the statehouse? Or will they abide by the demands of their opponents, whom they do not represent but have the bullhorn of the leftist press to scream at them? The next few weeks will tell us.
If they back down — as all other conservative lawmakers have done for decades when faced with screaming leftist protesters — it will either because of their own cowardice, or because of the cowardice of a a handful of the loudest constituents, who also demand they back down.
Such a retreat is clearly not what the voters of Tennessee voted for. What they wanted is what one of the commenters here at Behind the Black recently demanded:
Law-breaking of the most obvious sort must be enforced at the lowest and most individualistic level. Start with the so-calked Red States. Take seriously application of Constitutional Concealed Carry laws. Protect and enhance them so that they are pushed into “Blue” cities. Let no observed pilfering go unpunished— or even, on the spit restitution made, under the draw of arms, as needed.
In other words, the voters in Tennessee have undeniably voted for the rule of law and conservative policies. And the voters did so overwhelmingly, electing a legislature that is more than 75% Republican.
Those elected Republicans should remember this, and realize that those numbers not only put them in charge to lead, the numbers give them a great deal of power to do so. The last thing they should do is listen to the screams of a bunch of spoiled leftist toddlers who throw a tantrum because they don’t get their way.
The next few weeks will tell the tale. If Tennessee Republicans respond as firmly to future riots, expelling any members who participate in the same illegal way, then a great victory will be won. If not, then all will soon be lost, because by backing down they will demonstrate that there is no point in voting for Republicans at all. They will not fight when a fight is not only called for, but they have the power to win it.
On Christmas Eve 1968 three Americans became the first humans to visit another world. What they did to celebrate was unexpected and profound, and will be remembered throughout all human history. Genesis: the Story of Apollo 8, Robert Zimmerman's classic history of humanity's first journey to another world, tells that story, and it is now available as both an ebook and an audiobook, both with a foreword by Valerie Anders and a new introduction by Robert Zimmerman.
The print edition can be purchased at Amazon. from any other book seller, or direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit. The ebook is available everywhere for $5.99 (before discount) at amazon, or direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit. If you buy it from ebookit you don't support the big tech companies and the author gets a bigger cut much sooner.
The audiobook is also available at all these vendors, and is also free with a 30-day trial membership to Audible.
"Not simply about one mission, [Genesis] is also the history of America's quest for the moon... Zimmerman has done a masterful job of tying disparate events together into a solid account of one of America's greatest human triumphs."--San Antonio Express-News
The WashEx article does not state it, but the appointment returning them to the State House is temporary. I will search for it, but there was another article I read stating that they would have to stand for re-election in a special election.
sippin_bourbon: Your sense is correct. These reappointments are only interim, until the next election.
Not that it matters. Both will run for the office and win easily.
Bob,
Someone I know who works at NOAA received the email below from the NOAA Director, Dr. Steve Volz. The good Doctor took it upon himself to utilize a government computer and email system to vent his leftist spleen on the people whom he has to power to terminate from their jobs. Of course, no one dared counter his assertions openly and honestly. Another stellar example of a leftist taking a power-trip.
From: Trusted NESDIS Sender – NOAA Service Account
Date: Fri, Apr 7, 2023 at 8:04 AM
Subject: From the NESDIS AA: A Blazoning Call for the Value of Diversity
To: _NESDIS ALL HANDS
Dear Colleagues,
Twenty-seven months ago, on January 6, 2021, I watched in anger and anguish as thousands of rioters and violent protestors sought to disrupt our democratic process and cancel the results of our national election. They sought to negate the choice of the people, because they didn’t like the outcome and were convinced it was wrong despite all evidence to the contrary. Their attempted insurrection failed– barely –due to the brave efforts of the Capitol Police, and our elected officials completed the process of installing our new president. As of January7, 2023, 978 of the rioters have been charged with crimes, 465 have pled guilty to a variety of offenses, including insurrection, and court cases continue to be processed. The event and what it meant continues to divide us, and the nation will be dealing with the repercussions of that day for a generation. Yesterday I witnessed a haunting inverse reflection of the January 6 usurpation of the people’s rights, only this time it was the majority seeking to silence the minority for expressing opinions they didn’t want to hear. In the Tennessee House of Representatives, the majority of the house chose to condemn three members of their community and to eject two from the House for the offense of “violating the house standards of behavior and decorum.” What they actually did was express an opinion that was not welcomed by the majority. Just days after a horrific shooting incident in an elementary school in Nashville where three 9-year-old children and three adults were murdered in school, the three sought to discuss ways to reduce gun violence and to protect the lives of their constituents, especially children in schools. The House majority response is, in essence, and extreme reaction and an attempt to silence viewpoints that run against the majority’s preferred worldview. I view this as a clear example of how not to address difficult issues that divide us, and a screaming shout out for the importance of incorporating diversity into our discussions. The three representatives were minorities in multiple ways: they were from the minority party (22 Democrats out of 99 total in the House),they were minority by gender (10 of 99 are female, including one of the three),they were minority by race (12 of 99 are Black/African-American, including two of the three, and the two who were ejected), and they were minority by age (7of 99 are millennials, including two of the three and the two who were ejected).They are outliers in every way in the community they operate in, and their voice is uncomfortable to the majority. We are faced with many momentous issues today: understanding and addressing the causes of climate change, and dealing with the impacts of climate change; continuing challenges with equity and social justice; women’s rights including abortion rights; poverty and economic disparity; global conflicts; and more. As well we face local and personally impactful issues in our own workplace: the challenges of telework and remote work, understanding if my opinion matters to my boss; feeling respected in the workplace. These issues are complex and challenging and are felt viscerally by each of us, and talking about them is often difficult. But we can only solve them if all the voices of the affected people are heard, and if all the ideas and options are considered. It is the duty of those with authority to seek out and listen to those ideas, to embrace those who have a stake and don’t have their own power, and to bring everyone into the conversation. The House in Tennessee failed in that duty, executed a classic example of the abuse of power and in the process displayed an incredible and obvious lack of self-awareness. This is also a useful morality play for us all, as none of us is immune to such excesses, in small things and in large. The January 6,2021 riots were the end result of a long and steady build up in an attempt to change the people’s will. The April 6, 2023 actions in the Tennessee House of Representatives will be seen as another chapter in a much longer battle for equality, for visibility, and for inclusion by all in decisions that affect us all. Steve Volz PS. My daughter lives in Nashville, not in the district of the one ejected representative, but in an adjacent one. She feels violated and frightened by this action just the same. And I feel for her and many others in her community.
Readers: If any of you have a Republican representing you in Congres, you might consider forwarding Voz’s email to him or her. Volz is violating a number of statues here by taking a partisan political position and using his government email account to do so.
It would be very useful to bring Volz up to the House to answer some questions about the legality of this email.
A protest, not a riot, Bob.
https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/2023/04/04/tennessee-capitol-protest-heres-what-did-and-did-not-happen/70075823007/
Tennessee Highway Patrol has confirmed that the March 30 protests were peaceful, that no protestors were arrested, and no injuries or property damage were reported as a result.
At one point, THP officers physically removed one protestor from blocking one lawmaker’s path to the public restroom. The protestor was not arrested, and immediately returned to the protest.
Throughout the morning, state troopers escorted protestors from the House and Senate chamber galleries when they disrupted legislative proceedings, which is not an unusual occurrence at the Capitol during contentious debate.
D. Messier: If your side can call what happened on January 6th “an insurrection”, an absolutely absurd misuse of the word and a slander on what happened then, I certainly can call what happened in Tennessee a riot, as it “disrupted legislative proceedings” as you admit, almost became violent at one point (n a video I link to in an earlier report), and was partly led by the two representatives who were expelled for acting in direct violation of House rules.
Back when we were kids and westerns were popular movies everyone thought the lawless days were just a memory and civilization was forever. Now it’s like Liberty Valance has to be defeated all over again.
No violence, no injuries, no damage to property and no arrests. By no reasonable standard is that a riot. It was a protest that prevented the legislature from getting some work done.
You’re calling it a riot because you object to “my side” condemning a violent attack on Congress by an armed mob that was threatening to hang the vice president in an attempt to overturn the election.
Calling what happened in Tennessee a riot to somehow own the libs is a distortion of the facts.
Hah!
The U.S. Capitol Police invite people into the Capitol Building by literally waving them inside, then use these invited guests for target practice, killing one unarmed and undangerous woman who posed no threat whatsoever, then started arresting the survivors, accusing them of everything from parading without permission to insurrection. One of the guests, considered the most egregious, was given a personal tour by the Capitol Police, including the house chamber, where he even thanked his police tour guides.
The Capitol Police invited insurrectionists into the building? What were they thinking? Could they have been thinking “entrapment?” Get a bunch of tourists into the building then claim that they were evildoers that needed severe punishment?
Of course, other than the damage done during the Capitol Police target practice session, no injuries or property damage were reported as a result. The only armed mob were the Capitol Police. They were the only violent ones, too.
On the other hand, Tennessee’s House Democrats lead an actual insurrection in the House Chambers, complete with megaphone to disrupt the legislative proceedings so that they could not get any work done. they took over the House Chamber and hijacked the government. Somehow, the Democrats think that this is how democracy is supposed to work. In Tennessee, disruption is supposed to be acceptable, but invited and escorted tourists at the U.S. Capitol are treated in a vicious and ugly way just for doing as the Capitol Police had said. What was the difference and why the different treatment? In Tennessee the Democrats were the insurrectionists, and in the U.S. Capitol the Capitol Police believed that they had invited Republican Trump supporters into the building. The difference is that Democrats are allowed a great amount of leeway to disrupt, riot, loot, burn, and injure, as we saw during the several hundred “mostly peaceful” “protests” of the summer of 2020. But when Republicans are invited on tours, they are treated very differently, tracked and hunted down like terrorists and charged with insurrection and other crimes. I would call it a double standard, but that would imply that Democrats have standards. When Republicans speak, that is violence; when Democrats disrupt, intimidate, or violently riot, that is free speech.
So much for equal protection under the law. This is not our fathers’ country.
Then, we should also look at the commenters here at BTB who consider tourists invited in for a tour of the building to be rioters but people who are shouting through megaphones and actively disrupting the legislative proceedings to be peaceful. Once again, not a double standard because of the Democratic Party’s lack of standards. Democrats never admit that any of their disruptive actions or intimidations (e.g. loud protests outside Supreme Court Justice’s house, intended to influence the court’s decisions) are assaults on democracy but insist that tours of a building and all other non-Democrat actions are assaults on democracy. Not only did those rioters in Tennessee behave like spoiled brat three-year-olds, the Democratic Party’s reaction to both incidents resembles the rationalizations of three-year-olds. Everything must go their way all the time. They are like Veruca Salt in Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory; they want it now! No patience, total greed, no consideration of anyone else’s feelings or needs or for any logic or rational thought. They are always right, even after changing their minds, very much like their reaction to the Wuhan flu fiasco. In their minds, they cannot riot, because their cause is always just, and the justness of the end justifies the riotous means:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/riot
riot
2. Law. a disturbance of the public peace by three or more persons acting together in a disrupting and tumultuous manner in carrying out their private purposes.
The proof that Democrats don’t riot but Trump supporters do? Democrats are not arrested for their actions but Trump supporters are arrested for following the Capitol Police’s instructions, therefore Democrats behave themselves but others do not. This is only proof that the police have taken sides in the protests, just as the FBI has taken sides in politics. That is fair treatment, but only in the minds of the leftist Democrat’s. Protests are not supposed to be disruptive or to intimidate; they are only supposed to let everyone know what the protesters are thinking. There were hundreds of violent (“mostly peaceful”) protests during 2020, but the police let them continue day after day, night after night. In Seattle, an insurrection took over several blocks of the city, but the police did nothing for weeks, until someone died because the insurrectionists would not let an ambulance through. For Seattlites, insurrectionists get to play tyrant, disrupting people’s lives and businesses for weeks. The police invite tourists into the Capitol Building for a tour, then arrest them for parading. Two or so years ago, one TV personality asked what said that protests are supposed to be peaceful. The First Amendment said so:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.“
The first definition on that link is this:
Riot: a noisy, violent public disorder caused by a group or crowd of persons, as by a crowd protesting against another group, a government policy, etc., in the streets.
The rest of your comment is no more accurate.
Edward:
Google: January 6 violence
Click on Images
It was a violent event. And you can’t blame the people protecting the Capitol. It was the armed mob Trump sent down there.
D. Messier cherry picks his definitions. If ours does not match his definition, then ours does not count and is rejected, and the same goes for anything and everything else that we believe, say, or opine.
Wait, didn’t I describe the Democrats in just that same way, like three-year-olds who must have everything their way all the time? Looks like I was right.
We cannot use any definition that differs from his. We aren’t allowed to have our own opinions, because they differ from his; he won’t tolerate it. Isn’t this the very definition of bigot?
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/bigot
bigot
1. a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.
Or did I have the wrong definition of bigot? Maybe Doug’s definition is the second one, this time, not the first.
I think this Babylon Bee piece describes perfectly D. Messier’s beliefs when researching modern political riots:
Riley Gaines Arrested For Making Trans Activists Assault Her
Or maybe this one:
‘I’m A Victim!’ Yells Trans Activist While Punching Woman In The Face
It’s a wonder that human kind has been able to survive so much stupidity.
Edward:
YOU cherry picked the second definition of riot and then went on a screed about Jan. 6 that had little to do with reality.
The reality is there was violence on Jan. 6 and no violence at the Tennessee protest. I don’t care what the hell you call it, but those are facts.
Bigot? Give me a break. I’ve seen a lot of intolerance on this site.
Bob:
What the frak do those Babylon Bee stories have to do with the fact with what we’re discussing. You’ve answered my points like Edward has with insults. Those stories are very sort of intolerance that Edward is talking about.
D. Messier: I long ago decided it generally is a waste of effort to debate you on any point of politics. I am always open to considering other points of view, but you are not. More important, you will never even consider any facts that don’t fit your narrative. Edward provided you a lot of information about January 6th, all of which is true. To put it simply: 1) No one was hurt or killed but Trump supporters. 2) Trump supporters were let into the building by security, and then peacefully walked around and left, doing no damage. 3) None were armed. 4) No “insurrection” was planned, at all. 5) The FBI had numerous instigating agents there, many of whom were the ones who actually did the break-ins that did occur. 6) Hundreds of people have been imprisoned for more than two years and convicted for doing nothing more than “parading” inside the building, which when looked at honestly was walking in, looking around, and then leaving.
Was the behavior of many protesters on Jan 6th wrong? Yes. Did it merit the harsh punishment they have received? In looking at the facts of most of the convictions, I have found the answer is no, that these people are being persecuted politically.
Both definitions of “riots” provided by you and Edward still fit exactly with what happened in Tennessee, and on January 6th. However, no one was arrested for doing almost the identical “crimes” as committed by Jan 6 protesters because the Tennessee protesters were Democrats, a perfect illustration of the double standard that rules this country today, and that you follow blindly.
In June 2020, I wrote an essay called American Kristallnacht, noting the many historical similarities to the 2020 BLM riots with the tactics of the Nazis in the 1930s, and you immediately attempted to dismiss those similarities and blame Trump for everything. You also began your comment with an outright insult of my intelligence, claiming with utter ignorance of my work as an award-winning historian that I should “expand [my] reading list.”
My newer readers here might find a review of that essay and the comment thread there educational.
After several attempts then and numerous times previously in other posts to get you to even consider some facts outside your Democratic Party partisan perspective, I concluded as follows:
Nothing has changed in the two years since. In that time I have been doing a daily blacklist column, documenting endlessly the intolerance of the left. Do you care? Do you even read it? Or do you dismiss it as irrelevant because the people being oppressed are Republicans? Every comment you have made on this website in these past two years says you don’t care, you have never read any of these blacklist stories, and if you do read any you immediately dismiss them is irrelevant because Republicans are being oppressed.
To make myself very clear, I am not writing this to debate you. That is a pointless effort. I am writing this to show my readers how you, D. Messier, so perfectly illustrate the typical partisan Democrat. You I am sure are a decent person in your personal life, but when it comes to politics, you continue to be that archetype, so similar to the “good Germans” in 1930s Germany, who refused to see the evil they were endorsing so enthusiastically that led to genocide.
This is easy. Eliminate all state funding for Nashville until the city council capitulates and the expelled representatives are removed by the city council, at which time restore only half of the original funding. Redirect those funds to Republican districts. No refunds.
It’s long past time to recognize that America is in a cold civil war, but only one side is fighting. The era of a majority party governing on behalf of all constituents, while the minority political party constitutes a loyal opposition to the majority party is long, long gone. Republicans must adopt a war footing in matters of politics. This means governing strictly for the benefit of Republican constituents, while at the same time doing everything within their power to damage the Democrats.
The Tennessee legislature should expel all their Democrats–for any reason or no reason at all. Why? Because the Republicans have the power to do so and the Democrats are the enemy. Make them suffer. Drive them out of your state. This is how you win in a cold civil war.
Bob you said very clearly that you called it a riot because “my side” had exaggerated what happened on Jan. 6. Not because of some definition that Edward later cherry picked from a dictionary. You exaggerated it because you were angry about something else. Edward’s cherry picked definition is not the commonly understood definition of a riot. You know that.
Google January 6 violence and click on images. There are many images of the violence that day. You cherry pick some scenes to fit your narrative. Trump and the security at the rally knew there were people armed in the crowd. Trump wanted them to attack the Capitol. He said Pence would deserve whatever they did to him.
You bring a very far right ideology to absolutely everything. You distort facts or outright ignore them constantly. Confronted with the reality as happened here, you double down, change the subject and go on long screeds that reveal how angry and aggrieved you are.
Meissen makes a big point of stating no injuries were committed by the demonstrators. On Jan 6th we know the Demirats and their Stasi killed 5 innocent Americans in cold blood and injured countless others. We also know they utilized agitators to urge violence and then held the usual peop;e’s courts to detain people for years for no reason.
I served 30 years overseas and have seen the Maoists in action. Al sink I is proud of his student and I have no doubt that Stalin and Mao are beaming at such mendacity.
You guys are wasting your breath.
He will point to the couple hours of “rioting” on Jan 6th as long as possible, as he believes it gives him the moral high ground, while also ignoring, denying or dismissing the riots and insurrections that the left carried on for months before that.
The 2 months of a siege of the federal courthouse in Portland was largely buried by the media. The number of federal officers injured was around 140. Innumerable attempts to burn the building down. 60+ days. Last I checked, the judiciary is also a branch of government.
The multi-city destruction through riots mean nothing to him. The lawless autonomous zones that were patrolled by armed mobs, and resulted in deaths of minority persons that they claimed to support. The “fiery but mostly peaceful” rhetoric prevails, and anyone who fought back (Rittenhouse or Perry) were railroaded into court.
He downplays the riot in Nashville. Ignores other statehouses that have been stormed (Kentucky, Oklahoma, etc) by leftists. (No, there were no injuries. You know why? because those agencies put the proper protection into place, instead of holding extra officers and the National Guard back such as was done in D.C.)
He has been asked about these events previously, and I found his responses lacking any context based in reality.
I do not listen to people like him, who claim to have knowledge of the inner workings of other people minds (“Trump wanted” it “They knew they were armed”).
I ignore those who assign bad values and beliefs to others baselessly for the sole purpose of condemning them for same. This is fallacy.
No, Jan 6th was not a high point for the conservative side, but it was not the insurrection they claim. If someone it truly guilty of a crime, then they should be punished (reasonably, which has not been done).
I find it interesting that the crowd on Jan 6th is treated monolithically.
There is plenty of evidence that when one or two tried to commit vandalism, there were others that verbally or physically stopped them.
When people crossed lines, or even entered the capital, others told them not to, and then themselves withdrew.
There were thousands more that left Trumps speech and marched to protest (the breach of fence lines started before Trump was actually finished talking), and but never took part in any riots.
Those that want to point to Jan 6th and shriek ignore these facts.
Also true of the Capitol Police. Before the fence lines were breeched, there is video of the police lobbing gas and flash bangs into the packed crowd. This is not how you disperse a protesting crowd (Don’t believe me? There are many manuals on how to do this, go read them). In fact, this is how you get a crowd riled up and mad. This is not de-escalation. This is where one man dies of a heart attack and another a stroke.
There is video of officers beating an unconscious woman on the ground. A woman that was not fighting back. She later died. That does not sound like riot control. That sounds like vicious revenge and anger.
Other officers used their heads. They walked onto the Senate Floor and simply said “Okay guys! Time to go” and herded people out without lifting a finger. They were even thanked on the way out. That is good policing. There are other similar acts like that reported as well.
Why the dichotomy on both parts? There is much more to this event than the one sided commission was willing to explore.
Clearly sipping a lot of bourbon.
I point out there was no violence at this Tennessee protest, and you guys all want to debate Jan. 6 and violence elsewhere and calling me a bigot. It’s a lot of changing the subject and whataboutism and personal insults. It happens here every time some extreme claim gets challenged with actual facts.
sippin_bourbon: As I made clear in my post, I wasn’t debating Messier, since this is a waste of time. I was using him as an illustration of the close-minded left, always willing to question and condemn conservatives and Republicans (which is always okay) but never ever to have any skepticism about anything any leftist or Democrat ever does. In all things Democrats are saintly and perfect to a typical partisan Democrat like Messier, though he will never admit it.
Related via Canada:
NOTE THE CONTRAST IN CANADA
(All in just 2 minutes)
2SLGBTQI+ Canadian representative : https://youtu.be/Tt53yL4eKlg 1 minute.
A scene from Star Wars? No, no, just what looks like a bunch of very angry “woke” differently oriented “progressive” people. (No one is saying you cannot be what and who you want to be. Just don’t try to force me through law to love or like your personal differences and choices. I will respect you and your choices, but please do not force me through law.)
V
Future hopeful Canadian Prime Minster, Pierre Poilievre: https://youtu.be/TnoFYwHYM8A 1 minute.
Just a regular guy concerned with actual real freedom. Oh please, please be the man heading the movement that ejects the “woke” “progressive” communist X-Hole Trudeau from office.
And you thought that it was only going on in the U.S.? It is actually worse up there.
Mutual Respect
Earn It, Teach It, Live It.
https://apis.mail.aol.com/ws/v3/mailboxes/@.id==VjN-_95qz8vtNQnj2guvJpSi615JXjYizy9bcZuM2MCqJDk8zBIwKj0CmLH_qmCDE5NsTJVJXmOu9vG5vVhaOWavzw/messages/@.id==ANmQJDJayN7iZDirZwSP-N2NYXg/content/parts/@.id==2/thumbnail?appid=AolMailNorrin&downloadWhenThumbnailFails=true&pid=2
“whataboutism” ?
Is that the latest flashy term for “don’t tell me about facts?”
Your posts do not exist in a vacuum. You come in claiming to “correct the record”, when you own record of ignoring, denying or dismissing violence of the left, or even attempting to justify it, is well remembered.
D. Messiern wrote: Google: “January 6 violence. Click on Images”
How many things are wrong with that?
1. Confirmation bias. No wonder Doug thinks that January 6th was a violent overthrow of the U.S. government. If we filter for only violence how can we get anything other than violence? No wonder Doug has no idea what really happened. He has bought into the Democrat lies and rejects everything he does not want to believe. But then, as with Jonathon Gruber, the Democratic Party relies on the stupidity of their voters. The Party relies on their voters’ gullibility in believing and following only The Party line, their voters’ ability to reject reality in order to favor The Party line, and their voters’ ability to reject any dictionary definitions that don’t fit the narrative they want to tell. No wonder Democrats and their Supreme Court nominees can no longer define what is a woman; no definition fits their schizophrenia and their delusions that women are men and men are women, whatever one of those eventually turns out to be.
B. The violent people were the ones who broke into the building before Trump’s rally ended. Notice that these are the ones who violently broke (the violence) into the Capitol Building. They were not the Trump supporters, because his (obviously violent) rally was still in session, and Trump had not yet ordered his followers to march on the Capitol Building and overthrow the U.S. government. They were the AntiFA (Anti First Amendment) people and the (OS)BLM ((Only Selected) Black Lives Matter) who were in cahoots with the Democrats and the Capitol Police to make the Trump supporters look like insurrectionists. Why do you think Ray Epps has never been arrested or even found? Why haven’t they bothered to find the person who left bombs at both the Republican and Democrat headquarters? Because these were two of the violent people who were around just to make Trump look bad. Why do you think that the Democrats rejected the offer of National Guard protection when Trump offered them in his effort to prevent his own people from following his own orders to overthrow the government? The offer of the National Guard was because the internet had shown indications that trouble at the Capitol Building was brewing, and we already know it was not trouble by Trump’s supporters, because they were too busy supporting him at his pre-insurrection rally. These indications were not on the Trump supporters’ websites but on the leftists’ sites, such as Twitter and FaceBook. If the indications existed at all. The FBI may have made them up in order to justify their own actions on the day. The FBI used government resources in order to prevent Trump’s election. The FBI has taken sides in politics and has been influencing American elections for at least two presidential elections. Probably more.
Third, where was the picture of the Capitol Police officer using that unarmed, non-dangerous, ill-fated, invited woman (whatever that is) as target practice? That was the most violent thing that happened there that day.
Dalet. I don’t use Google. When I “google,” I use search engines that aren’t biased in favor of the narrative Orange Man Bad and other Democratic narratives. I don’t think Orange Man is the second coming of the Messiah, but he is vilified by Democrats too stupid to realize that he is a fellow Democrat masquerading in Republican clothing. (Elon Musk is also a Democrat, and the Democrats are too stupid to recognize this, because like Trump, Musk did not move left fast enough to yet be anti-First Amendment, like the AntiFa and (OS)BLM people on January 6th.)
Further, how can Trump supporters not be violent, now that the Democrats have declared that words are violence and violence is free speech (“what says that protests are supposed to be peaceful?”). As an aside (or do you think I’m changing the subject?), since words are now violence, the megaphone must have made the Tennessee insurgents especially violent. Ah, the beauty of Democrats cherry picking their definitions (even to the point of making up definitions) and pretending the other definitions do not exist or do not apply. How are pictures that only portray violence supposed to show violence when it is now redefined as free speech and speech is redefined as the violence? Pictures have difficulty showing speech, the new violence. Pictures of violence are not of violence but of free speech. (Geez. These new Democratic Party definitions of speech and violence are almost as confusing as the Democrats’ new definition of “woman,” whatever that new definition could possibly be.) How are pictures that only portray violence supposed to show how peaceful the Trump supporters were?
Which brings us to: a picture may be worth a thousand words, but the wrong pictures give thousands of words of the wrong story. How are pictures that only portray violence supposed to show that the Capitol Police invited into the building people that they thought were Trump supporters? How are pictures that only portray violence supposed to show that the Capitol Police gave a guided tour of the building to the guy that they later characterized as the leader of the insurrection? This was a guy too busy being on the guided tour to be the leader of an insurrection. How does the leader of a violent insurrection lead it when the Capitol Police are giving him a personal guided tour of the building?
Six. I counted six things that are wrong with that.
__________________
D. Messier,
That definition was not “cherry picked,” it is valid and applies. It should be understood as valid. Your problem is as Robert stated, you refuse to acknowledge any viewpoint that differs from yours. That definition is valid, too. Without such acknowledgement, discussion with you is futile, except for the purpose to which I put our discussions. I am not under any illusion that you will finally accept facts as facts and incorporate them into your worldview, as your 9:08 AM comment demonstrates. Instead, I practice my argument techniques on people like you. In another thread, this practice is paying off with a very reasonable discussion with someone who may actually be acknowledging other people’s views.
By the way, I had to add the word “pictures” into my search engine in order to get pictures. I hope that does not spoil the experiment that you asked me to perform. The violence in those pictures was exclusively with police, which is consistent with the information given here that the police and the numerous FBI agents instigated violence, that the protesters were not independently violent, as happened in the hundreds of riots during the summer of 2020. This is also consistent with the many government departments and the various levels of government taking sides in American politics. I saw no violence from the people inside the building, the supposed insurrectionists, supposedly there to overthrow the U.S. government at Trump’s orders. All I saw was the police inciting violence. Maybe my search engine’s list of pictures isn’t Google’s biased list of pictures.
The change of subject from Tennessee to January 6th came from a Democratic Party operative’s government email that made the comparison between the two events: https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/what-will-the-republicans-controlling-tennessees-statehouse-do-now-that-nashvilles-city-council-has-reinstated-their-expelled-representative/#comment-1405808 Other “changes of subject” may only be the use of other examples of real life, rather than the bogus made-up stuff that The Party tells us is true, such as men aren’t real men and women aren’t real women (the sheep must be real scared in The Party’s world).
What you call “whataboutism” is the demonstration that there are two forms of justice in America, now. One form for The Party, and another for anyone not belonging to The Party. The Party got upset that two of their members were caught instigating an insurrection and taking control of the Tennessee House. The Party threw a hissy fit, as though they were three-year-olds.
You may feel insulted, but that is only your own feeling, feelings being a Democrat’s currency. The rest of us have you figured out. It is not hard to do. You make it easy. Unfortunately, you will continue to do so.
Bob:
You’re not the one to be attacking others for not being open minded. You literally feel compelled to talk over and anyone who disagrees with you on The Space Show. It’s why I stopped calling in. Probably why few people bother.
Edward: you write readdy long screeds full of twisted logic and alternate facts. The idea that the Trump mob was peaceful and that all the violence can be blamed on others is ludicrous.
D. Messier wrote: “… and alternate facts.”
Thus my point has been made.
On further reflection, the pictures of violence on Jan 6 are not pictures of violence from the protesters but of standoffs by them. No protester is hitting anyone else, none is burning anything, none is swinging fists, sticks, hammers, or bicycle locks. Nope, it is just standoffs. Even provoked, the Trump supporters are peaceful while the Capitol Police are violent and murderous.
So, that means by the Democrats’ definition, this wasn’t even free speech.
1968 Democrat Convention Highlights
https://youtu.be/7_9OJnRnZjU
3:52