In Europe, the use of masks leads to more COVID-19 cases
It appears that the three European countries with the strictest mask mandates and the highest percentage of usage are also the three European countries experiencing the highest surge of COVID-19 cases, signaling once again that masks not only do not protect anyone from the virus, they could actually be contributing to its spread.
The Biden campaign and the Democrats are cynically cashing in on these pandemic fears. “We’re in a circumstance where the president thus far and still has no plan, no comprehensive plan,” Biden ranted at the debate. “What I would do is make sure we have everyone encouraged to wear a mask all the time.”
France, Italy, and Spain tried that. It didn’t work.
The European countries most obsessed with masks are doing the worst. Nearly universal mask wearing in those countries has done little to prevent a surge. Democrats have a weakness for wanting to be like the Europeans. But the only thing the Biden mask mandate would do is turn us into France. The French wore masks through the summer heat only to have three times the cases per capita and per day as the Americans who never adopted a mask mandate.
The author outlines the numbers. In France 78% of the population wear masks. In Italy the number is 81%. And in Spain it is as high as 86%. Yet all three have had the biggest recent surges in new cases since the mask mandates were imposed. Meanwhile countries where fewer than a third or less of the population where masks — Sweden, Norway, and the UK — the number of cases is far less, and for Sweden there has been no surge in cases at all..
While the author outlines the failure of these mask mandates to stop the virus’ spread, he does not note one component that might be contributing to the surges in these mask-obsessed countries. Masks if misused and worn when they are not sanitary, as is common when large numbers of people are required to wear them all the time, become pathogen bombs. Instead of blocking the virus (an ability that remains quite unproven), they likely become carriers of the virus, at the very place people breath.
But don’t worry. Though you might be increasing the chances of getting sick, you will “feel-good” about yourself when you put on that mask. It is a talisman that proves your wonderful virtue to everyone else, especially those evil people who have looked at the data and have decided to forego this pathogen spreader.
On Christmas Eve 1968 three Americans became the first humans to visit another world. What they did to celebrate was unexpected and profound, and will be remembered throughout all human history. Genesis: the Story of Apollo 8, Robert Zimmerman's classic history of humanity's first journey to another world, tells that story, and it is now available as both an ebook and an audiobook, both with a foreword by Valerie Anders and a new introduction by Robert Zimmerman.
The print edition can be purchased at Amazon. from any other book seller, or direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit.
The ebook is available everywhere for $5.99 (before discount) at amazon, or direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit. If you buy it from ebookit you don't support the big tech companies and the author gets a bigger cut much sooner.
The audiobook is also available at all these vendors, and is also free with a 30-day trial membership to Audible.
"Not simply about one mission, [Genesis] is also the history of America's quest for the moon... Zimmerman has done a masterful job of tying disparate events together into a solid account of one of America's greatest human triumphs."--San Antonio Express-News
It appears that the three European countries with the strictest mask mandates and the highest percentage of usage are also the three European countries experiencing the highest surge of COVID-19 cases, signaling once again that masks not only do not protect anyone from the virus, they could actually be contributing to its spread.
The Biden campaign and the Democrats are cynically cashing in on these pandemic fears. “We’re in a circumstance where the president thus far and still has no plan, no comprehensive plan,” Biden ranted at the debate. “What I would do is make sure we have everyone encouraged to wear a mask all the time.”
France, Italy, and Spain tried that. It didn’t work.
The European countries most obsessed with masks are doing the worst. Nearly universal mask wearing in those countries has done little to prevent a surge. Democrats have a weakness for wanting to be like the Europeans. But the only thing the Biden mask mandate would do is turn us into France. The French wore masks through the summer heat only to have three times the cases per capita and per day as the Americans who never adopted a mask mandate.
The author outlines the numbers. In France 78% of the population wear masks. In Italy the number is 81%. And in Spain it is as high as 86%. Yet all three have had the biggest recent surges in new cases since the mask mandates were imposed. Meanwhile countries where fewer than a third or less of the population where masks — Sweden, Norway, and the UK — the number of cases is far less, and for Sweden there has been no surge in cases at all..
While the author outlines the failure of these mask mandates to stop the virus’ spread, he does not note one component that might be contributing to the surges in these mask-obsessed countries. Masks if misused and worn when they are not sanitary, as is common when large numbers of people are required to wear them all the time, become pathogen bombs. Instead of blocking the virus (an ability that remains quite unproven), they likely become carriers of the virus, at the very place people breath.
But don’t worry. Though you might be increasing the chances of getting sick, you will “feel-good” about yourself when you put on that mask. It is a talisman that proves your wonderful virtue to everyone else, especially those evil people who have looked at the data and have decided to forego this pathogen spreader.
On Christmas Eve 1968 three Americans became the first humans to visit another world. What they did to celebrate was unexpected and profound, and will be remembered throughout all human history. Genesis: the Story of Apollo 8, Robert Zimmerman's classic history of humanity's first journey to another world, tells that story, and it is now available as both an ebook and an audiobook, both with a foreword by Valerie Anders and a new introduction by Robert Zimmerman.
The print edition can be purchased at Amazon. from any other book seller, or direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit. The ebook is available everywhere for $5.99 (before discount) at amazon, or direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit. If you buy it from ebookit you don't support the big tech companies and the author gets a bigger cut much sooner.
The audiobook is also available at all these vendors, and is also free with a 30-day trial membership to Audible.
"Not simply about one mission, [Genesis] is also the history of America's quest for the moon... Zimmerman has done a masterful job of tying disparate events together into a solid account of one of America's greatest human triumphs."--San Antonio Express-News
I bought a box of single use masks from Costco the other day to keep in my car so if I forget to take one when I leave the house I still have some “freedom papers” to allow me some rights to go into buildings. Right on the side of the box there is a warning. “These masks do not eliminate the risk of contracting any disease or infection, nor reduce the risk of illness or death”.
Isn’t that the whole reason they mandate their use? To save lives.
The box also lists an intended use, “warn by the use to cover the mouth, nose, and chin. The mask provides a physical barrier to block exhalation or ejection of pollutants from mouth and nose.”
Isn’t that why we teach our children to cover their mouths when they cough? Why don’t they mandate people to cover their mouths and nose when they cough or sneeze?
Election Day, vote Trump and if you live in my state vote Loren Culp
Masks if misused and worn when they are not sanitary, as is common when large numbers of people are required to wear them all the time, become pathogen bombs. Instead of blocking the virus (an ability that remains quite unproven), they likely become carriers of the virus, at the very place people breath.
^This^
If everyone wore an N95 (or similar) mask as a surgeon does, never takes it down and runs their hands over it, changes or cleans it frequently you might see some positive results. As it is…more harm than good. I wouldn’t be surprised if this false sense of security leads to laxity in the most worthy procedure we have received….wash your hands after touching things.
Be smart. Wash your hands. Go about your life.
Unfortunately Bob, you haven’t done your research here…. A quick Google of “Sweden surge” will bring you up any amount of news regarding our current uptick in cases. The government has REQUESTED a more “lockdown” model,l. As the works “can-do-guy” I spent the morning taping off tables in our lunch room, so no more than 2 people allowed at tables built for 6, and the social distancing in my local bar has in theory been increased. ( The tables are now further apart..) My ex-motherinlaw was taken to the ER earlier today with difficulty breathing… She has underlying health problems. Nothing really to draw from this boots on the ground report, but it’s fake news to say Sweden has no spike…. It’s real and ongoing. I always respect your opinion Bob…. But I’ve said from the beginning of this that it’s too early to make a judgement… And it still is. The virus could mutate and become very deadly, it could just die out and go away, or could become endemic like the flu.
It’s your blog, and to be honest, I visit here every day, and I fully understand you have total control and the right to control over what is published here… And to be honest I agree with your opinion on this pandemic … But neither you nor I are qualified in giving advice in keeping safe…. All the figures you link to are refuted by a search with different parameters…
Sweden is on the verge of lockdown right now… I personally disagree, but at a much higher level than you guys over there I trust our non governmental health agency.
I was once condemned here for my dark humour regarding who would have the most deaths? The US or Sweden? I take that bet back… And double up on exactly the same per capita….. The WuTang flu is gonna do its thing…. I took my regular flu jab today… Hopefully avoiding the bidemic…. Stay safe American dudes… And I hope you all voted, and may you get the result you hoped for !
Lee Stevenson: This is terrible news, on several levels, especially because everything I have read says that the number of deaths in Sweden remains low at this time. Even if you are getting lots more cases, they are not resulting in more deaths.
To thus shut down society seems absurd.
You cite a story dripping with disdain for socialist France written by an author who covers far left and Islamic terrorism published on a far-right website run by David Horowitz.
It clearly reinforces what you already believe about the pandemic. But, these are not good sources of medical information.
I could go through the story and point out distortions, falsehoods and besides-the-points. Sadly, my previous attempts to cite statistics and information from reliable sources have been met with disbelief. They’re not deemed reliable.
You say that as if disdain for a socialist system is bad.
I read that the Swedish Health Minister said he didn’t like simple solutions to complicated problems. masks and shut downs seem too simple a solution.
Bill Mullen, a simple solution would be to ask mature adults to:
a) be responsible for their own immune system
b) be responsible for their own fear
Those afraid of getting this for whatever reason, including compromised immune system, can stay home and order out.
The “simple” solution results in the absurd: people who visibly take zero responsibility for their physical fitness, which necessarily means their immune systems are weaker, wearing masks and keeping their distance while buying sugary garbage “food” which eaten will necessarily weaken their immune systems.
If they get sick from this or any other virus, they intend to blame ME, who eats with care and maintains fitness, because I didn’t wear a mask and stand far away?
Separation of church and state is crucial … so is SEPARATION OF MEDICINE AND STATE.
D. Messier,
You wrote: “ou cite a story dripping with disdain for socialist France written by an author who covers far left and Islamic terrorism published on a far-right website run by David Horowitz. … Sadly, my previous attempts to cite statistics and information from reliable sources have been met with disbelief. They’re not deemed reliable.”
Ah, yes. Only your sources are reliable, but ours never are.
Edward-
Thanks for pick outing out that little gem [“…far-right website run by David Horowitz.”] I remember skimming that and thinking ‘yowza,’ to be polite. Holy cow, Horowitz was a professional-communist for a long time, and self-described red-diaper baby, now he’s a ‘right-wing’ something-or-other?
((“Come on man….a soldier-faced, pony-whisperer, no doubt.”))
“Communism, Trump, and Leaving the Left”
David Horowitz / Rubin Report
March 2017
https://youtu.be/3DD_8SJKAjc
1:27:49
Isn’t labeling people “evil” name calling. Name calling is not allowed on BTB unless you are Robert Zimmerman.
If someone had called RZ “evil” or a “denier” they would be banned.
If someone had called some group “evil” or “deniers” they would be banned.
If RZ does it it is ok, and RZ does it repeatedly…its good to be king.
An excuse will likely be forthcoming…or a banning.
I only decry the hypocrisy, not the act.
m d mill. Heh. You obviously didn’t read what I wrote very closely before jumping to criticize. To be very clear, I wasn’t calling anyone evil, I was paraphrasing and making fun of the name-calling routinely used against me and others who oppose mask use. In fact, when I wrote the last paragraph of this post I was thinking of you in particular, and your use of that name-calling to attack anyone who thinks masks are a mistake. Rather than engage civilly and address the data, you’d rather focus on ad hominen attacks, aimed at discrediting those who disagree with you.
Your attack here continues to prove my point. Thank you.
Wayne: If the cited source isn’t a far right wing website run by David Horowitz, someone needs to alert Wikipedia. That’s how it is described there.
Edward wrote: “Ah, yes. Only your sources are reliable, but ours never are.”
I never said never. Or that my sources were the only reliable ones. But, on the whole, I tend to rely on credible organizations keeping tabs on COVID-19 cases like Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine and experts on the infectious and communicable diseases. Neither the author of the piece cited nor the website he wrote for are considered experts when it comes to the subjects and issues being discussed.
The story told you guys what you want to hear about masks. It reinforced your thinking. Those things are easy to find. That doesn’t mean it’s true.
D. Messier,
You wrote: “I never said never. Or that my sources were the only reliable ones.”
Ah, plausible deniability through implication. Then you reinforcer the implication with your next two sentences. Well done, you.
“It reinforced your thinking. Those things are easy to find. That doesn’t mean it’s true.”
These days, hearing it from experts also doesn’t mean it’s true. Interestingly, the experts gave one opinion before March, an opinion that matches three quarters of a century of science, but they give a different opinion now, one that does not match any science at all. So, whose thinking is being reinforced by your unscientific but “expert” sources?
The “masks do virtually nothing” science is easy to find, because there is so much of it. For decades, medical experts questioned whether masks could be used to prevent disease spread, looking for ways to make it work, but they surprisingly found that masks may or may not even prevent post surgery infection.
So, when real data is examined and real situation are compared, suddenly these sources become unreliable.
How reliable do you think the science is when it bends to the current politically correct view rather than sticking to its data and previous conclusions?
It is truly sad that today’s experts are systematically destroying their own credibility. This loss of confidence tends to bleed over into other areas, where the experts have been honest and trustworthy, and that makes it all that much worse.
If your sources are so reliable, please link to one or ten. Oh, that’s right. You said that they are always “not deemed reliable” by us.
Here ya go, Edward. Took one Google search to find this. One. It even explains why the advice changed, something anyone could have easily found if they actually looked. Note the qualifications of the sources: an epidemiologist and an infectious disease specialist.
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent
“We talked to UC San Francisco epidemiologist George Rutherford, MD, and infectious disease specialist Peter Chin-Hong, MD, about the CDC’s reversal on mask-wearing, the current science on how masks work, and what to consider when choosing a mask.”
I could find a dozen more stories like this. The original post linked to a story done by a writer who specializes in terrorism published on a far right website. As I said, not reliable sources of medical information. Just because information is out there doesn’t mean its reliable. You need to be able to separate what’s credible and what isn’t. Just because it agrees with your bias doesn’t mean you should believe it.
Instead of leading, the right politicized a health pandemic to the point where wearing a mask and social distancing became a partisan issue rather than a matter of saving lives. It’s why we’re in the mess we’re in.
D. Messier,
Thank you so very much for actually making my point for me. You link does everything that I said was being done after the politically correct thing to do became wearing masks. The paper that the article links is specific to COVID19, written after March and written specifically for the politically correct point of view. Lysenkoism in action!
I appreciate this so much, you really just cannot know how much. You have made me a very happy man, today.
Edward:
Glad you are happy. Ignorance is bliss.
D. Messier,
Glad you are blissful.
If you could read that story and conclude it supports your unscientific and erroneous ideas when it says the exact opposite….then nothing will convince you.
It’s usually a waste of my time to argue anything here. People have their ideas here, and they hold onto them no matter what evidence is presented.
D. Messier,
You wrote: “If you could read that story and conclude it supports your unscientific and erroneous ideas when it says the exact opposite….then nothing will convince you.”
Non-Lysenkoian science — real science — would go a long way toward convincing me. Instead, you have paid such little attention to the science that you had to do only “one Google search to find” your post-Wuhan flu link. The fact that you had to do a search, rather than having the science before hand, shows that you really have no idea what you are talking about. You haven’t been keeping up with the science or the topic. Instead, you have been accepting without question the stuff you hear from politicians, their news media, and the experts who have sided with both. Politically correct science is not science; it is merely politically correct.
Your understanding of our discussion is so poor that you think that the story you linked could possibly be seen as reliable, yet the topic of discussion is how unreliable the post-February opinions are, because they bend to politics rather than science. The science before March is science, but much of the science since is Lysenkoism.
But I keep at my fingertips this link, so that I can show the pre-Wuhan science:
“What follows are a list of links and papers on the evidence of the efficacy of masks.”
https://wmbriggs.com/post/32326/
Meanwhile, Robert has been keeping up on this topic for most of the year.
I had asked: “How reliable do you think the science is when it bends to the current politically correct view rather than sticking to its data and previous conclusions?”
Your comments suggest that your answer is: “completely reliable, and to not accept the politically correct view and to accept the pre-2020 science is unscientific and erroneous.”
I challenge you to find pre-2020 science backing up your “scientific” and “correct” ideas. The differences between the pre-2020 and the post-February science is serious evidence — virtually proof — of Lysenkoism.
“It’s usually a waste of my time to argue anything here.”
Because it is always classy to go to someone else’s site and insult the them.
I would think as someone who runs a site, you would, in general, be opposed to trolling.
Edward, I would give up.
I have been called “anti-science” so many times it is ridiculous.
Your point that science on this has been bent by politics is absolutely correct.
But, as you have likely observed, this is true in many fields.
Mr Z’s running theme of the “uncertainty of science” bears this out.
Nor is the Socialist-Democrat party of the United States aka Progressives) the first political body to do so.
Galileo de’ Galilei comes to mind, but really, he was simply one of many.
To me, anyone that accepts ‘the science is settled” on medicine, the climate, quantum physics is ignoring all the times a paradigm shift came along in history and made fools of the experts.
If anyone points to certainty of any kind in the social sciences, (sociology, gender studies, etc) I am confident that their foundation is as solid as warm jello.
The fact that Mr Messier appears to defend socialism concerns me, and informs me that it colors is viewpoint.
As I said, there are those on the right who can’t see this pandemic and the steps needed to contain it in anything other than political terms. They’ve turned a virus into a partisan issue. It’s why things are such a mess. Meanwhile, the virus spreads out of control as diagnosed cases soar and people continue to die in large numbers while Trump has no viable plan to contain the outbreak.
You can believe whatever you want. It doesn’t change the reality on the ground. That reality is tragic.
D. Messier-
Personally, I’m not “right-wing.” Generally, I’m a conservative, libertarian, republican, and generally in that order.
Q: May I inquire how old you are?
I ask for the reason– we didn’t do any of this mass nation-wide lockdown-stuff for Polio, did we?
No, we didn’t.
Unconditional Surrender (1956)
https://youtu.be/G9z2uym00jE
14:33
“The Last Few Polio Survivors – Last of the Iron Lungs”
November 2017
https://youtu.be/gplA6pq9cOs
7:08
You are tone deaf to your own statements.
In one sentence blame the “right” for making the pandemic partisan.
Then turn around and blame Trump for the effects of the pandemic.
But yeah, it is all “them”.
I was born, but I was not born yesterday.
The moment people started dying in this country, politicians and pundits were pointing at the administration.
I was right here in the US of A watching the news, and see it happen in real time.
They have a plan, just not a plan you like.
A single national plan will not work everywhere.
What is needed in the large population centers is not the same as rural areas.
State governors are better positioned to manage this. They always have been. Trump stated this early on. The feds have been working with my state Gov all through this. The Gov has said is much in his regular press conferences. So if you paid attention, you would know that the admin and the feds have been involved since the start.
When Joe Biden gets to the white house, and makes an edict that everyone must wear a mask everywhere all the time, the first question is going to be “By what authority?”.
Trump has been careful to stay within the limits of the executive. Why? Because the moment he exceeded it, Nancy Pelosi planned on trying to impeach him again.
Your statement that only the right was trying to leverage the crisis illustrates your own confirmation bias.
sippin_bourbon-
nicely stated.
D. Messier,
You wrote: “As I said, there are those on the right who can’t see this pandemic and the steps needed to contain it in anything other than political terms.”
You lied then, and you lie now. What you said demonstrates your complete ignorance, even after reading what we have written. For you, only you can be right, and any other viewpoint must necessarily be wrong.. That is the very definition of closed minded.
I noticed that you were unable to find any pre-Lysenkoian science to support your “scientific” and “correct” ideas. Because is does not exist, you had to declare that you are correct by fiat.
For 150 years, the single most effective method for preventing the spread of disease among the general public and within medical facilities has been and continues to be hand washing. You show your continued ignorance by not knowing that we rightists have been saying that since Wuhan Plague became a concern. If I understand you correctly, hand washing is a political position, these days.
Since you had been the one to say it, you were the one to make it political, left vs. right.
And now that it is political, the reason it is such a mess is the result of reactions in Democratically controlled states. Sending Wuhan-ailing patients into nursing homes is not the solution that you and your favored Democrats think it is. Directing people to go to various Chinatowns is likewise not as wise as you think it was. I have yet to hear a single leftist say anything at all against these stupid reactions, which clearly accelerated the spread of the disease in New York and California, if not other states. The disaster created by these horrific policies just is not that important to you all.
Accelerating development of a vaccine is a good idea, as was supplying Democrat-run cities with hospital facilities and medical equipment. It is a good thing that the Democratic president did those things.
Oh, wait. ….
For the Democrats to insist that we wear masks just to remind us that we are in a crisis was completely stupid. And, yes, that is what they told us when they first mandated masks, which happened after they begged us to not wear them for the reason that they didn’t work.
But according to you, it is only because of the politicization of the Wuhan Plague that it is as bad as it is. Don’t tell that to the president, who helped the Democrats as much as presidentially possible, but tell that to the Democrats who did everything completely wrong. If you are right, then it was the Democrats making it worse for political purposes. If you are wrong, then the Democrats are not as smart as you think they are. Come to think of it, both could be true.
sippin_bourbon,
You wrote: “Edward, I would give up.”
What? When he keeps making my point? When he keeps making me happy? I will give up sometime later.
Edward: I did not lie.
>I noticed that you were unable to find any pre-Lysenkoian science to support your “scientific” and “correct” ideas.
I am not your research assistant. I’m not going to waste my time trying to disprove your ill informed theories. Every time I have tried to present evidence, it gets instantly dismissed. Then you go on long rants that are difficult to follow.
Stop accusing me of lying. Stop being abusive.
Big announcement yesterday regarding the effectiveness of the vaccine.
Sounds like Trumps predictions were correct.
Cuomo was lamenting yesterday that the Trump admin will deliver it.
He is even more upset that private companies will deliver it, instead of the government.
In other words, he wants to utilize a crisis for political means.
But, that cannot be.. Mr Messier says only the right does that.
Only private and contracted companies really have the means to distribute effectively and cost efficiently.
I am guessing that Cuomo is more upset that Biden will not have the opportunity to steer the cash flow to favored companies, much the way Obama did with his massive stimulus plan, that was really nothing more than a massive kickback scheme.
I never said that. What I did say is the right had taken a medical recommendation (wear a mask) and turned it into a partisan issue. That is true.
Trump said the country only had 15 cases that would shrink to zero soon. He said the virus would disappear with warmer weather. Then he claimed it would go away completely after the election.
None of that was true. We now have record cases. More than 1,000 deaths per day.
Trump would have made that vaccine prediction whether it was accurate or not. If there was still no vaccine in sight, he would have denied ever making the prediction.
Put down your booze, sober up and face reality.
It isn’t just the people who died because idiots directed people to go to their local Chinatown (and three weeks later those areas were in lockdown, fearful of the sudden rapid spread of the disease) or died because morons sent Wuhan Plague-ailing patients into nursing homes, it is also the nearly one hundred thousand excess deaths that are not attributed to the Wuhan Flu Of Doom. Loss of timely healthcare, suicide due to isolation, increased drug use due to the intense boredom have contributed to these excess deaths. The difference between other years and this year is the reaction to Wuhan Flu From Hell. This terrible reaction is the cause of these extra deaths, but instead of the leftists being appalled, they ignore these deaths and rationalize and approve of the horrific, deadly reaction.
Government directed us to go where the chance of being infected were greatest, and for those in nursing homes, who were unable to go to the infections, government sent the infections to them. Two examples of what we are supposed to think of as government solutions.
Another area of concern for those of us who are scientifically minded that the pro-central control advocates do not show any concern about is the corruption of the data. Deaths attributed to Wuhan flu can include people who died due to other reasons but had the virus, yet the record says that they died due to Wuhan flu. Even those who are merely suspected or assumed to have the virus, without any evidence that they really hadits, are included in deaths due to Wuhan. Then we keep being told how amazingly deadly this plague-like flu is, and these overcounts are used as justification to continue the reactions that kill people who were never infected. Rather than saving lives, we end up with even more deaths than we would have had.
Even with this broadly enhanced definition for attribution to Wuhan virus — and tremendous financial incentive to attribute as many as possible to Wuhan virus — we have only around a quarter million assumed, suspected, or tested as having the Wuhan virus when they died. Some people keep trying to use the corrupted data to compare Wuhan Plague with other major flus, but corrupted data is still corrupted data, and it cannot be used to properly compare anything.
Some people seem to be willing to accept the politically correct view of the day. We saw this with global warming, when most people accepted warming less than a decade after they had been telling us that the next Ice Age was on its way. Other people question the new story, wondering why the old story was scrapped without notice or without explanation. This is now happening with the face diaper mask story. We have had three stories about the masks, and many people have bought into each one as it was presented. The first story followed seven decades or so of previous science: don’t bother wearing masks, they don’t work against viruses. Then the story was to wear masks, because they remind us of our crisis. Now, against decades of science, the story is that even any piece of cloth in front of your face will stop the spread and save lives, if you don’t go along you are the problem, and you should be prosecuted for murder, or so said one elected official.
D. Messier declares himself correct by fiat, without any evidence whatsoever, but the rest of us have to provide proof of our position, yet when we do, he declares our sources to be unreliable. Apparently, all science performed in the Before Times, prior to the Wubonic Plague (I think that came from someone here), is unreliable ignorance, but opinions formed afterward are solid science, and is the only science that counts, because it goes along with political correctness. At least for those on the left, those who insist that government is the one-size-fits-all solution. Those who believe in centralized governmental control refuse to admit that their precious Big Brother government — especially its killer reaction — is the problem, not the solution. Always has been. Always will be.
The United States should not be looked at as a homogeneous place. Some states had worse results than others. If we remove New York from the rest of the U.S. then the U.S. did not do as poorly as most other places that locked down. Take California away, and it gets even better. Interestingly, these two states were the ones in which mayors, and congressmen had directed people to go to their local Chinatown, three weeks before mandating lockdowns. In fact, the states that did best were the ones that did not lock down but had remained free states, no government directives to go to Chinatown or do other risky behaviors.
We are told that in a health emergency our leaders have the right and responsibility to direct us as to how to live our lives. But who gets to decide whether we are in a health emergency? It is the very people who most want to direct us as to how to live our lives, the people who believe that if they let We the People make our own choices then we will choose wrong, every single time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkZcEJBcLmU#t=91 (15 seconds, “The Giver”)
Even though the emergency that they first told us we were in had only lasted less than a month, and even though some places allow the government to declare such an emergency for only a month, states of emergencies have been declared for the better part of a year, with no end in sight. Even the second excuse for an emergency, the rapid spread of the Wuhan virus, has not been applicable, yet the states of emergencies and the draconian measures persist. The collateral damage includes deaths at a rate of about 1/3rd of those attributed to the Wuhan virus, but it also includes fear, loss of timely healthcare, loss of livelihoods, loss of liberty, and economic devastation to the globe, to nations, to cities and towns, to families, and to individuals. The government reaction to this non-emergency has been tragic in many ways in addition to the mandate to wear face diapers.
Wuhan is supposed to be super duper contagious, spreading easily and rapidly. According to the lockdown theory, the free states should have done worst, but they did best. And they still have economies and employed citizens, who are not losing their homes or bank accounts and are not losing their healthcare and liberty. This shows us that sippin_bourbon is correct. One solution does not work in all places (which assumes that lockdowns even worked at all).
This super duper contagious disease has finally spread to a whole ten million people. 33 weeks into the lockdown, almost ten months since the first case was identified in the U.S., a whopping 3% of the population, including the free states, have finally been infected. It’s about time, because we had been led to believe that this disease spread really fast, that the free states should have virtually no one left uninfected, by now. Because only a lockdown could possibly prevent spread, as long as masks are also worn. Except the free states, without lockdowns or mask mandates, are doing so very well. So lockdowns and masks are not the saviors that they are advertised to be.
Maybe there is a lot of hand washing in the free states.
With a whopping ten million people having the virus, that leaves a mere 320 million who are virus free, including the free states. Well, that turned out to be quite the fast spreader. Especially in the free states.
D. Messier,
you wrote: “I did not lie.”
Your statement was untrue, and you knew it when you wrote it. Otherwise you would have corrected me. Instead, you declare yourself correct by fiat.
“I am not your research assistant.”
When did that happen? You spent time doing research before, claiming that finding your evidence was easy peasy. You are denying decades of science, to which I provided a link, so the onus is on you to demonstrate you are correct and I am wrong. Did it turn out to be difficult to find non-political, pre-2020 evidence?
“I never said that. What I did say is the right had taken a medical recommendation (wear a mask) and turned it into a partisan issue.”
Actually, you were the one to make the masks political. Do you still want me to stop pointing out your lies? That would seriously limit my ability to argue with you, and it would mean that anything you say must necessarily be taken as true, by fiat. You certainly have a hard time arguing in a fair manner.
To repeat your quote: “As I said, there are those on the right who can’t see this pandemic and the steps needed to contain it in anything other than political terms.” It looks to me that you directly referenced “this pandemic” and not “a medical recommendation.” Indeed, we agree with the original medical recommendation, which was begging us to not wear masks specifically because they do not work on viruses, and we agree with it because it is consistent with decades of scientific research. We even accept the reason for the second story, in which the politicians wanted us to wear masks for political, not medical, reasons. Only later did the medical community fall in line with their financiers and masters, the politicians. But you already knew that, so this is a lie on your part.
“Trump said the country only had 15 cases that would shrink to zero soon. He said the virus would disappear with warmer weather. Then he claimed it would go away completely after the election.”
Now you want me to be your researcher? This is yet another statement that I just cannot believe, especially since you could not back it up.
“We now have record cases. More than 1,000 deaths per day.”
Which is coming at the same time as the mask mandates. This is the same point that Robert’s post makes. Earlier you disagreed with his post, now you present your own evidence that his post is correct. You made my point four days ago, now you make Robert’s point.
As for record cases, since that word now means anyone who has ever had the virus, the number only goes up, so we have record cases every day. We have had more than 1,000 deaths before, and we likely will again. Flus are funny that way.
“Put down your booze, sober up and face reality”
Now I see your problem. You are projecting your own behavior onto me and the rest of us.
“As I said, there are those on the right who can’t see this pandemic and the steps needed to contain it in anything other than political terms.”
You did not limit it to mask wearing.
You said the pandemic and steps to contain it.
You are misrepresenting your own words.
If you wish to re-state your comments, or agree you mis-stated them, I accept that. We all are capable of error. Please state your stance correctly.
“We now have record cases. More than 1,000 deaths per day.”
No.
https://covidtracking.com/data/charts/us-daily-deaths
The 7 day avg is below 1000 and has been.
It is tracking upward, but has not been over 1000 for sometime.
You cannot take a one day high and make that claim.
“Trump would have made that vaccine prediction whether it was accurate or not. If there was still no vaccine in sight, he would have denied ever making the prediction.”
Unless of course he was getting regular reports of the progress and knew something.
Which, as POTUS, he was. And still is There is that.
And again, ad hominem. Can you not help yourself?
Are you worried that Trump will get credit for the vaccine being distributed like Cuomo?
If you are, then you are short sighted.
You should be happy that there is a good solid preventative measure on the horizon, regardless of who is in the White House.
You should be happy that people will be spared a disease.
I really do not care about your answer. I hope you can answer yourself honestly.
If you don’t care about my answers, you deserve none.
Have a nice day.
D. Messier,
You wrote: “If you don’t care about my answers, you deserve none.”
sippin_bourbon may not care about your answers, but you have not answered my questions for me to care or not, yet.
I do.care.about his.answers because he appears to be fundamentally dishonest.
sippin_bourbon,
If you do care about D. Messier’s answers, but he thinks that you don’t, then it seems that he makes up his arguments in order to suit himself. No wonder it is so hard to have a discussion with him. His facts are wrong and his emotions are high.
He must be doing that just for us, because his news reports seem to be the other way around, high on research, with correct facts, and little emotion.
D. Messier, as Edward knows, science is refuted by better science, the fact that Edward has resorted to smearing and name calling – “Lysekoism” because he is unable to provide the better science is just evidence that he’s lost the rational argument.
Ah, I made a typo. I meant to say I do not.
sippin_bourbon wrote: “You should be happy that there is a good solid preventative measure on the horizon, regardless of who is in the White House. You should be happy that people will be spared a disease.”
This seems correct, that too many people are too concerned about who gets credit for the good things and whose poor decisions are covered up. When ailing patients were sent into nursing homes, Cuomo did not suffer a reduced popularity rating for killing more than ten thousand people. When Pelosi and de Blasio directed people to go to Chinatowns, they did not suffer reduced popularity when the result was that their cities had to be put into lockdown because of the sudden rise in hospitalizations. I have yet to hear leftists even acknowledge that these are two of the worst things to have happened in the U.S., where Wubonic Plague is concerned, causing a large portion of the spread and panic.
Instead, all deaths are attributed solely to the president, even though his opposition caused the worst spread events. There is an as-yet unacknowledged disastrous collateral damage, unacknowledged by the emotional left, due to people too fearful to go to their doctors, to lost jobs and resulting lost health insurance coverage, to devastated economic conditions resulting in reduced charity, to broken transportation systems resulting in possible starvation of a hundred million children around the world.
But some people just want to blame the wrong person for it all — the one person who brought about solutions to the problems developed by others.
Now we hear that an effective treatment for one form of cancer is probably going to be delayed by months or years, due to the overblown fear of this not-so-deadly plague. The fear of Wuhan will result in the unnecessary deaths of thousands more, as further collateral damage.
https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/lock-down-madness-prevents-approval-of-cancer-drug/
This is what happens when our fearful leaders blindly follow the “experts” who are myopically focused on only one aspect of the problem. We hired — elected — our leaders to look at the whole picture and prevent the horrific collateral damage. Indeed, the damage directly attributed to the Wubonic Plague is worse than predicted, had we followed the original three-week lockdown. When the lockdown was extended, not only did the collateral damage increase, but rather than saving one life from Wuhan, close to two hundred thousand people in addition to the expert predictions have died so far, and now we are also fearful of yet another wave of plague.
Some people still want to blindly follow their fearful leaders, no matter how terrible the consequences. Now that these fearful leaders are saying bad things about the coming vaccines, we should expect continued deaths from the flu as well as continued collateral damage and deaths, because those who blindly follow their leaders will not get the vaccine, prolonging the national disaster.
It looks like blindly following the experts and fearful leaders is going to prevent people from being spared from the disease.