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Leftist election theft must lead to war, if only so freedom can survive

Clinton supporter going insane after Trump victory
A Clinton supporter after realizing Trump has won

When Donald Trump won the election in 2016, entirely legally with no indication of any election fraud or errors, the Democratic Party, aided by its boot-licking minions in the press and its most radical supporters, all declared that they were now “The Resistance” and would devote their full effort to denying the result of that election. To them, Trump’s victory was illegitimate and invalid, simply because it was not the result they wanted.

And that has been what these Democrat partisans have done, for every moment of the past four years. They culled up fake scandals, the most blatant of which was their accusation that Trump was a Russian agent, a ridiculous accusation that has been proven false by their own hand-picked investigators. It was a lie, and even those willing to give it some credence for awhile know that now.

They then tried to impeach Trump, merely because he rightly called for a more thorough investigation into what appeared to be illegal payoffs from the Ukrainian government to the Biden family. We now know Trump’s concerns were entirely justified. Rather than impeach him, Congress should have been looking into investigating Joe Biden.

For four years the attacks were never-ending. While some criticisms of Trump were certainly valid, as they always are for any elected official, the stupidity, shallowness, and repeatedly proven falsehood of almost all of these attacks demonstrated the unwillingness of the left to simply accept an honest election result.

To them, the only election result that was acceptable was one in which they won.

Refusing to accept Trump’s legal election has been incredibly harmful to the country. It has threatened the very nature of democracy and elections, whereby both parties learn to live with both victory and defeat. It has destroyed any good will that might have remained between both sides, because one side (the Democrats) had made it clear that they believed the other side (the Republicans) were always illegitimate and thus had no right to office at any level, no matter how many people voted for them.

This refusal to accept an election result also meant that the Democrats had decided that every Trump voter no longer counted, even though by law their votes had legally put Trump in power.

Now we find that the Democratic Party candidate for president, Joe Biden, might have obtained the presidency through what increasingly appears to be outright election fraud. Unlike Trump, who won cleanly and legally, Biden’s possible victory involves numerous documented instances of voter manipulation and illegal votes. Here are just a few examples, which are only a small sampling of the numerous such stories in the past week:

And then there is the situation in Pennsylvania, where the state court allowed ballots received after election day to be counted, even though the state law expressly forbids it. Moreover, that state court also allowed the election board to accept ballots even if the signature on the ballot did not match the signature on file.

The result in Pennsylvania? Almost 100% of every single late ballot was for Joe Biden, a statistical impossibility.

Some Democratic Party partisans will argue that to see election fraud here is being paranoid and foolish, a desire to see conspiracies everywhere.

To that I say: “You are full of it.” These same Democratic Party partisans have been lying to us endlessly for the past four years about Trump, making up absurd accusations against him time after time, all of which have proven false. Every. Single. Time. If anything, their insane behavior since 2016 makes it more likely, not less, that they are now committing election fraud against Trump and his millions of supporters.

The time for good will has ended. If Republicans and conservatives wish to survive in the coming years, to avoid arrest and imprisonment for their beliefs, they better be ready to tell Biden and all Democrats to go to hell, that nothing they propose will get any support, and that they now face instead an unceasing hostile opposition.

And the Republicans have the power to do it, even if the Democrats succeed in stealing the presidency. Republicans held or gained ground in local elections nationwide. They control a majority of the statehouses and governorships. And there is a good chance when all is said and done, they will control both houses of Congress.

They must use that power. Even if the election illegalities for the national election cannot be overturned, Republicans in state houses across the nation must go after the criminals who committed those illegalities. They must be indicted, and sent to jail if found guilty. No more can Democrats be allowed to skip away from their crimes, scot free. They must be punished for wrong-doing, and they must be punished hard.

Communist propaganda, the same then as now

If Republicans at all levels of government do not do this, they will only have themselves to blame when law-breaking by Democrats get even more brazen. Soon these petty dictators will begin to use that uncontrolled power to make it illegal for any opposition to even exist. Expect prison and arrest to come next. That has been the pattern repeatedly through history. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Terrifyingly, there is the possibility that the Republicans will do what they have always done in the past, fold like a house of cards when faced with any opposition. If Trump is not president that likelihood also increases, because this so-called conservative party, before the strong leadership of Trump, has repeatedly shown itself to be weak and subservient to the left, even when it has had a majority..

However, the real vote totals in 2020 and the election of many hard-nosed Trump conservatives suggests that weakness will no longer be the response from Republicans. Moreover, many previously wimpy Republicans, such as Senator Lindsay Graham (R-North Carolina), have shown a remarkable stiffening of their spine in recent years. It appears they have finally realized there is no good will coming from the Democratic Party, and are finally beginning to respond with strength.

The odds are high that the Democrats are about to reap what they have sown. It will not be pretty, but then, it is what these conniving, corrupt, and power-hungry thugs have been demanding. We should give it to them.

Genesis cover

On Christmas Eve 1968 three Americans became the first humans to visit another world. What they did to celebrate was unexpected and profound, and will be remembered throughout all human history. Genesis: the Story of Apollo 8, Robert Zimmerman's classic history of humanity's first journey to another world, tells that story, and it is now available as both an ebook and an audiobook, both with a foreword by Valerie Anders and a new introduction by Robert Zimmerman.

The ebook is available everywhere for $5.99 (before discount) at amazon, or direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit. If you buy it from ebookit you don't support the big tech companies and the author gets a bigger cut much sooner.

The audiobook is also available at all these vendors, and is also free with a 30-day trial membership to Audible.

"Not simply about one mission, [Genesis] is also the history of America's quest for the moon... Zimmerman has done a masterful job of tying disparate events together into a solid account of one of America's greatest human triumphs."--San Antonio Express-News


  • Greg the Geologist

    In the interest of fairness, we on the conservative side should pledge to give President Biden (should it end up that way) all the respect, support and confidence the Democrats gave to President Trump. In any case I will be praying for Biden’s good health and safety, and I mean that sincerely. Really really mean that (I live in California).

  • Greg the Geologist wrote, “We on the conservative side should pledge to give President Biden (should it end up that way) all the respect, support and confidence the Democrats gave to President Trump.”

    The entire point of my essay above is that the Democrats gave Trump zero “respect, support, or confidence,” and it is time conservatives returned the favor. I am sick of conservatives always playing the nice guy, even as the left picks our pocket and screws our wives.

  • Steve

    I agree Bob. I’m tired of being Mr Nice and Reasonable Conservative. If Biden and his Commie VP should somehow take office I will call them as I see them unapologetically for the next 4 years. What goes around comes around. But anything Conservatives do to Joe and the Commie will pale in comparison to the grief they will be subjected to from the Left. And Joe is not up to the coming onslaught.

  • Gary

    Our future rests with the young. The left has long realized this and has shaped opinion through media and educational propaganda. It was only with the arrival of President Trump that someone effectively push back against this. I didn’t realize that my 16 year old was politically aware, but she evidently has ties to a large group (hundreds) of kids that passionately believe that this election was stolen. I will admit that very few of these young people live with us in the San Francisco Bay Area and I can now understand why my daughter is pushing us to move the family to Texas. In two years she will vote at the midterms and my other daughter will be voting for president in four years. Whatever shape your Civil War takes, it must involve educating the youth.

  • Cotour

    Greg the Geologist:

    Lived in Cali a long time? It shows. Maybe you should move to Texas?

    (Geology is one of my favorite subjects)

  • Call Me Ishmael

    “… all the respect, support and confidence the Democrats gave to President Trump.”

    It seems to me that we are all in violent agreement here.

  • Greg the Geologist

    Cotour, I’m a second generation native, and when I was growing up Ronald Reagan was Governor. We had fruits, nuts and flakes back then, but they didn’t run the place. Anyway, the climate, coast, mountains and deserts are worth fighting for, and the geology is unbeatable; not sure I could make it as a “flatlander”. The state government does seem determined to chase me out, and if they finally get rid of Prop 13, that could do it. I’m thinking Utah or Arizona though…

  • Doubting Thomas

    Greg the Geologist – With all due respect, please DO NOT move to Texas. Millions of Californians are coming to Texas apparently determined to make the Lone Star State into a clone of California. Please stay out and go pick another state to ruin.

  • Milt

    Mr. Z’s essay is probably one of the most lucid and succinct statements about the future of the Republican Party and the conservative movement that I have yet seen. My fear, however, is that such a response may already be “too little, too late.” As James Howard Kunstler observes in his latest essay along these lines, we are now living in a “post truth” environment where — for many millions of Americans — there are no longer any meaningful “facts” (other than what they see on their Facebook feed) and nothing matters.

    “The news media’s strategy here, you understand, is *to overcome reality by main force* —
    reality being that the election Joe Biden rode in on was a garbage barge of ballot fraud that
    is on its way to being called out. So, the newspapers and cable stations rushed to declare
    Mr. Biden ‘the winner,’ with several swing states’ votes not yet completely counted, and Mr.
    Biden self-ratified the call, while the Woke Resistance spent the weekend partying in Covid-
    19 super-spreader crowds they had deplored only days earlier.” (emphasis added)

    In short, so many people now believe that election fraud and corruption on the part of Mr. Biden are either “not real” / “not important”
    (and thanks to the presstitute media, no amount of evidence will suffice to convince them that such crimes actually took place), that the fundamental importance of these things with respect to preserving our institutions of government is no longer even relevant. Indeed, if — as it appears — we are now living in a media-created alternate reality where facts are irrelevant and nothing matters, then how can we or the country go forward?

    My feeling, again, is that with the media’s help Mr. Trump will not prevail in his quest to remain in office, no matter what the “facts” turn out to be. We are now living in such a “reality optional” universe that even if the election *was* stolen and this can be proven, “popular opinion” will not accept this verdict even — or especially — if it comes from the Supreme Court. Likewise, if it should be proven that the Bidens traded influence for cash with foreign governments. If proof of their corruption is not seen as real or important, then what does trying to make indictments / prosecutions accomplish other than to create political martyrs for the left?

    I am old school enough to believe that although we still live in what is for the most part a consensus reality — we agree on what things are important and acknowledge the existence of things that cannot be simply wished away — and our society (and particularly a representative democracy) needs to be grounded on “the truth” as much as humanly possible, however uncomfortable this might make us. My fear, again, is that we now are living in a “post truth” world where, as Marx said, “all that is solid melts into air.”

    The progressive / communist left’s assault on reality has been going on for many decades, and they have scored victory after victory, first in academia* (trickling down to all levels from K through 12), then in the media, and finally in the corporate boardrooms. Our government itself has been the last domino to fall, and short of the Supreme Court and perhaps the Senate, there is now almost no place
    where “the truth” and “reality” still seem to matter.

    *Where such statements as “men can menstruate,” looting and burning are “peaceful protest,” and “racism is in every white person’s DNA” are all taken as the ultimate, infallible truth, and they must be accepted without question. (Or, as Tucker Carlson likes to say, the authorities will hurt you.)

    And it is this assault on the concept of objective truth (and that it matters) — even more so than the various policies that the radical left means to put into place — that represents the most profound and immediate threat to our society. Quoting Churchill’s assessment of England’s desperate hours under the Nazi blitz,

    “If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not
    fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you
    will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival.
    There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory,
    because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.”

    At which of these stages, do you think, we are now?

  • pzatchok

    I have a few ideas.

    We do need to educate our youth, Don’t know yet how to take back the schools but I am open to realistic ideas.
    We need to engage our religious leaders. We need to convince them that to stay out of secular politics is handing their very own religious rights away. The left(dems) have for years tried everything they could to remove all mention of religion and a God out of our public spaces and government. They have already started forcing the removal of all things religious from the public view. The next will be to remove outside religious images from the very places of worship we all attend.
    Our religious leaders could help in recruiting our retired republicans to be first poll watchers. The Republican party never seems to have as many as the dems and we need as many as possible to stop the theft this election has proven could happen again.
    We also need our Catholic Church leaders to reach out in church to their Latino congregants. A huge portion of them are Catholic and this by logic should not sway Democratic. They need to learn what the Democratic party is really like. The anti religious views they have and the anti catholic stances they hold like promoting abortion. The left might legalize them all but their is no reason we could not turn them ALL republican while they do it.

    This is just a start. But if anyone else has ideas please post up.

  • Gary

    Tonight I had a conversation with a friend of mine who it’s quite smart Mensa smart and very much a communist. In fact he’s Russian and has vacationed in both Cuba and North Korea.
    We don’t usually talk politics, I was absolutely floored when I found out that he actually believes that the media was totally bankrupt and that this Russian thing was a complete hoax. He likes much of what Trump has done. I get the impression that he prefers honesty in a politician. This divide can cut in many ways. He certainly was in mourning given that his seemingly natural allies were morally unacceptable. So there you have it. A communist with ethical concerns.

  • Jeff

    While I like the current incarnation of Senator Graham, we in North Carolina can not count him as one of our own. That privilege belongs to our neighbor to the south.

    Hopefully more Republicans will follow, but they might be reluctant if this kicks into gear:

    As I seen here – “They’re coming for you next…”

  • George_Banner

    As with the Founding Fathers our future depends on our balls.
    Either we (1) have them and (2) use them or we walk voluntarily into the gas chambers in good order and without protest as so many did in the 1940s.
    The Founding Fathers would have been piling up corpses by now.
    Lots of corpses.

  • Kevin

    I read Greg the Geologist as urging that Slow Joe be given all the respect the Left gave Trump (i.e., zero), and hoping for Biden’s good health because he knows, as a Californian, how much worse, if that’s possible, a President Kamala would be.

  • Take Thanos’ soliloquy at the end of “Avengers: Endgame” and change a few words, and you have a haunting image of where the Left is heading.

    I’m thankful, because now I know what I must do.

    I will discredit, then destroy, every reminder of the past … every picture, every statue, every flag, every book … every idea that does not align with my One and Only True Way.

    And then, with the institutions you have put so much blind trust in, create a new past. Teeming with knowledge, that knows not what it has lost, but what it has been given. A grateful society.

    You might consider that born out of tyranny … but your neighbors and your children will never know it. Because you will be deplatformed, discredited to irrelevance.

    Unable to challenge my New Past.


    Civility in response to dishonesty – intellectual and otherwise – is counterproductive in the defense of liberty.

  • Allison

    Jeff correctly puts Graham in SC, but he fails to mention our lily-livered senator whose carcass was dragged across the finish line by Donald J. Trump, and yet he, Sen. Tillis, has done nothing to support DJT. Tillis may yet lose to fraud. I despise Tillis, and await Trump starting a new political party. But Tillis and his useless class of donor funded pols is how we got here while the Communists organized.

  • Jim Wiseman

    Lindsay Graham is a South Carolina senator, not North Carolina.

  • wayne

    time for some Jocko motivation…..

    Jocko Willink x Rudyard Kipling –
    ” IF ”
    Akira the Don, May 2019

  • wayne

    Jocko Willink –
    Akira the Don, April 2019

    When I wake up in the morning and I don’t know why,
    I’m thinking about,
    The Enemy.
    And when I wake up in the morning,
    I’m thinking to myself,
    What can I do,
    To be ready for that moment.
    Which is coming,
    Which is coming…..”

  • Micha Elyi

    Why are there so many people who are huffy because their plan to outsource their citizen activism to “the Republicans” hasn’t worked out as expected?

    I strongly urge those who are counting on “the Republicans” to save them to get out from behind their keyboards, become citizen activists, start attending those boring central committee meetings, and volunteer to help get more and tougher Republicans elected.

    Hey, kids, don’t complain that your candidates and incumbent legislators lack backbone when you yourselves won’t step out in public to have their backs.

  • MIcha Elyi: Been there, done that. The only reason I have stopped is time and age. I think my personal talents are now more useful here, behind the keyboard.

    And it seems to me that you are assuming too much, unfairly, about many of my readers.

  • mac

    As Richard Fernandez has noted, the left took off the velvet glove this time around and showed the mailed fist. They are ALL IN. This is because they know this election is for all the marbles. They have cheated egregiously and shamelessly. We know this, and they know we know. They don’t care. Their attitude is in-your-face “screw you” contempt. “Yeah, so we stole the election. Whadda ya goin to do about it, sucker?”

    Well, what ARE we going to do? I know what I have in mind. What do YOU have in mind?

  • mac: Inquiring minds want to know: You know what you intend to do. Please tell us. It might help others decide to take action.

  • Ian C.

    First things first. Until Trump says that it’s over, it’s not over. I have unshakable faith in Trump and (most of) his team. They knew that fraud will happen and I am positive that they took steps in advance. Many people out there are crowdsourcing evidence of voter/election fraud (and it looks to be massive, but let’s see how much can serve as evidence in courts). The American (and European) public is the target of a large-scale deception (for Democrats) and demoralization (for Republicans) campaign. For 5+ years it’s outright propaganda, so shrug it off. You’ve voted Trump? Then stay with him and trust that he’ll fight until clear victory or defeat. Never roll around like a submissive dog.

    Micha Elyi,

    You have a valid point that I want to reinterpret. Don’t wait that Trump comes and saves the day. He can mitigate or remove what was built over decades against the people. He can create the beneficial circumstances. But it’s you, the people, who have to grab the opportunity and build at least a part of the reality you want to see. Create good families. Work on your useful career or business that makes your community (or even the world) a better place. Push back the enemies of the people, deny them your business, remove them from jobs where they do harm. Be tolerant for there are many people with other ideas, but don’t apologize for your views and goals and don’t compromise without receiving something substantial in return.
    I’m not sure whether many fellas really utilized those four years Trump has given them. If he has a second term, work like mad and grab that opportunity. It’s a gift, don’t waste it! And if he has no second term, you have to put in double the effort. (And if you think that you’re too young or too old, you aren’t, you’re at the right age.)

    And don’t expect Trump to be always around. Instead internalize his ideas of facing the issues (not hiding them), caring about the people who actually create value or are affected by decisions and circumstances, and his approach of how to get things done by making fair deals (not violence). Become Trump.


    “We do need to educate our youth, Don’t know yet how to take back the schools but I am open to realistic ideas.”

    There’s so much we can do. (1) Homeschooling networks (thanks to C19) become more prominent. Use it to offer them more data points that counter the one-sided propaganda. (2) Demand that specific views and values are also taught about in schools and make a fuzz if teachers block it; sue them, harass them, make the individually accountable. (3) Create private schools that teach pupils not only the values but also the practice of being skeptical, self-determined, being able to do their own research, have personal integrity and tolerance whatever their conclusions and political preferences may be etc.
    Digitalization and virtual or hybrid schools can do a lot here. Embrace it.

  • m d mill

    It is worth noting that the Libertarian Presidential candidate Jo Jorgensen’s vote exceeds Biden’s margin in Pennsylvania, Wisconson, Nevada, Arizona and Georgia.
    Thus the libertarians who voted for her gave the election to Biden. The liberal left(Democrat) is much further from the libertarian philosophy than the conservative right(Republican). This was simply a narcissistic virtue signalling vote by libertarians more interested in feeling superior than in political reality. If free market libertarians are going to act this inanely we have only ourselves to blame.

  • m d mill

    Here is an interesting recent post by Dr. Roy Spencer regarding vote fraud statistical analysis:
    Also here:

  • Call Me Ishmael

    “It is worth noting that the Libertarian Presidential candidate Jo Jorgensen’s vote exceeds Biden’s margin in Pennsylvania, Wisconson, Nevada, Arizona and Georgia. Thus the libertarians who voted for her gave the election to Biden.”

    I’m not much enamored of the Libertarian Party these days, but this is one thing they shouldn’t be blamed for. Biden’s vote totals in most (if not all) of those states are entirely works of fiction. If the libertarians had added their votes to the Trump total, the fiction would simply have been adjusted accordingly.

  • Milt: Sorry to be so long in doing this, but I wanted to complement you on your essay above. Your analysis of the “post-truth” we now live in is quite cogent and to the point, terrifying though it is.

  • Shinmen Takezo

    “In the interest of fairness, we on the conservative side should pledge to give President Biden (should it end up that way) all the respect, support and confidence the Democrats gave to President Trump. In any case I will be praying for Biden’s good health and safety, and I mean that sincerely. Really really mean that (I live in California).”

    Or maybe you are cuckold conservative.

    I’m from California as well–and if you haven’t noticed we living in this state are subjugated by a one party system.
    Maybe you like this?
    It’s obvious you are unwilling to stand up like a man.

    Why don’t you go to the kitchen cupboard, where your wife hid your balls, and put them back on.!

  • mrsizer

    Poor Greg.

    Read this again (quoting it for the fourth time):
    “In the interest of fairness, we on the conservative side should pledge to give President Biden (should it end up that way) all the respect, support and confidence the Democrats gave to President Trump.

    In other words, no respect, no support, and no confidence.

    In any case I will be praying for Biden’s good health and safety, and I mean that sincerely.

    Y’all are aware of who his vice-president is, right? Does anyone actually prefer her to ineffectual, if corrupt, Biden?

  • mrsizer: I do believe you are right, Greg was being sarcastic and no one noticed. Ah well, the perils of writing.

  • Andrew M. Winter

    With a headline like that I get worried. I mean. I’m ready, but how much ammo have you got?

    I’m not going to war on the first shot some hot head fires. This isn’t really Lexington and Concorde, it’s a contested election. Trump could loose the contest or win it. Not my call.

    But I am ready, if it really comes to “war”. You?

  • Andrew M Winter

    FYI. I am just being rhetorical in my previous response ( I re read it after I posted and realized that some one might think I was loaded up already to go. Im not, and I won’t unless someone starts shooting at me first).

    The simple fact of the matter is that the State Legislatures may, if they wish, nullify the popular vote in their state as hopelessly corrupted, then put it to a vote on the State Legislature floor. The Constitution of the United States says NOTHING about The Various States having to have a popular vote to determine which candidate will get that state’s electoral vote.

    Thus, most of this legal hassle is fine, but in the end, a judge cannot decide this election. A judge did not decide the Gore/Bush Election, a judge stopped the process of a lower court judge from deciding the 2000 election.

    The difference there was that Jeb Bush took the Florida legislature out of the picture by recusing himself. That kicked open the door. Had he done his job, it would have gone the legislative floor and Gore would have won. Sad day, but that horrible precedent set by Gore is going to stick and we are in for a long boring miserable court fight.

    I hope Trump wins, but I got no dog in this hunt if he looses. The popular vote is not a factor in choosing electors. It’s just a convenience. The State Legislatures appoint the electors. The Constitution is mute on how they are to do that.

  • Edward

    Micha Elyi,
    Republicans are supposed to do the work and make the donations to get their people elected, and their part is to protect our rights and liberty. When they fail to do so, then everyone has every reason and every right to get huffy at their failure.

  • wayne

    m d mill–
    Good stuff.

    I would highly recommend this lecture from Professor Barrow. (who recently died)

    “Benford’s Very Strange Law”
    Professor John D. Barrow
    Gresham College Public Lectures 2012

  • wayne

    musical interlude…..

    “Look in the doubt we’ve wallowed,
    Look at the leaders we’ve followed,
    Look at the lies we’ve swallowed,
    And I don’t want to hear no more…..”

    Civil War –
    Slash & Myles Kennedy
    Acoustic MAX sessions 2010

  • Another Robert

    Well-written, Robert Zimmerman.

    Haha, poor Greg indeed, there is a price to be paid for being sarcastic and keeping a poker face, but also a reward.

    Interesting collection of thoughts in the comments.

  • Cotour


    Curious about the difference between what makes a “Democrat Socialist”, Liberal / Leftist Democrat, and a Republican or Trump supporter?

    Here, take a look, this is a woman named, Jennifer Rubin, listen to her and if you are a Democrat I think that you have to ask yourself:

    “Is this what I really think and believe?” 1:29, that is all it will take to understand.

    This woman and the others with their Main Stream Media bobble heads agreeing with her are a very scary group to say the least. These are very dangerous Americans to my thinking. I know many Democrats, many are my friends, but they are not this, what can only be described as twisted and evil.

    They fully indoctrinated Democrat Leftists propose making black lists of anyone who has supported or has worked for Trump, and destroying them.

    If you are reading this and are a Democrat is this what you really think should be done, if you could do it that is? Professionally and financially destroy those people who have politically opposed you? “Burn down the Republican party”? Lots of violent imagery rattling around in her noggin. She reminds me of the Bolsheviks in Russia, they used bullets to the back of the heads on their political enemies. How far is this vial woman and those who support her ruminations from proposing that?

    This to me is just one more example of the existential death spiral the Democrat party and its leadership are currently in. And its not being destroyed by anyone else except them because they are at their foundation bereft of any true American philosophies. These are full blood Leftists, and I know that my Democrat friends are not.

  • Greg the Geologist

    Kevin, mrsizer, “alt-Bob” and a few others got it; maybe I should fire up the sarcasm light (right here on my desk) whenever posting something. Some may have needed a second look. As for Doubting Thomas – really not much risk of me moving to Texas, but I’m not one of those you’d need to worry about if I did…

    Visiting, though, you bet – you’ll see me and some fellow ‘desert rat’ geologists in the zone of totality in April 2024!

  • Cotour

    From the real world:

    An older lady, occasional customer, comes in this morning. And I have had one specific conversation with her about abortion a while ago that I was certain would have had her interpret me as being more of a Conservative minded person. I guess she did not catch on.

    She is making a purchase and cheerily with a big smile on her face says, unsolicited by me: “Well, we won!”. And I clearly understood what she was talking about, Trump lost.

    And my response to her simply was to, “Stay tuned”.

    And she comes back at me with: “Oh come on!”.

    Then she incredulously says: “Are you a Trump supporter!?”.

    And my reply: “Why, do I look like a Liberal Democrat to you?. Oh God”.

    Then I told her: “You know some people see my big nose and assume that I am Jewish, but its actually a Roman nose”. (Not that there is anything wrong with being a Jew, or being gay for that matter, as Jerry Seinfeld would say.)

    Then I asked: “Will this be the last time I will be seeing you now that you know I am a Trump supporter?”. :)

    She replies: “Oh, no, I just did not think that you were a Trump supporter.”. (Hasta Lavista, Baby)

    I repeat: STAY TUNED.

  • Cotour

    And like I said, stay tuned:

  • D. Messier

    Off to the civil war, are you Bob? Are you going to take up arms and fight on the front lines? Or are going to be a laptop warrior urging others on from the safety of your home?

    This type of talk of armed fighting is extremely dangerous. At some point it can become a self fulfilling prophecy. It’s not clear you understand how bloody it could get.

  • D. Messier: You might want to read my essay today on this subject. Do you have any objection to a careful recount and audit of the election to make sure it is accurate?

    Your answer will determine a great deal about the future we face.

  • D Messier

    Bob: I’ll take that as a yes to being a laptop warrior if violence breaks out.

    I read the essay. The sources you cite have reliability problems. You can find anything to support any position you want to take online. It doesn’t mean it’s true.

    Recounts are a standard part of elections. You know that. This is not really what Trump wants. He wants to delegitimize the election. Trump might even pressure state legislatures to not certify results and simply appoint a slate of electors that would vote for him. Replacing the top Pentagon leadership with loyalists could well be a step in that direction. You worry about your freedom. There’s a big risk right there.

  • D. Messier: You have answered my question. As always, you give the same boring excuses you and the left always do when someone presents you data you don’t like. “The sources you cite have reliability problems.” What garbage. I personally am sick of this broken record, especially since in every single case, you and your ilk never once devote any effort to reading the facts outlined. Never.

    I don’t want war, or violence. My essay today was outlining a way to avoid it. The essay above this thread was predicting it will occur if we don’t make sure the election was fair.

    You however apparently don’t care that more than 70 million Trump voters have serious and very profound concerns about the reliability of the election. No, for you, those concerns can be waved off with a simple, “The sources are not reliable.”

    I think we will have war, but it won’t be because of anything I have said or done. It appears this is something the left wants. At some point the right is going give the left what it wants.

  • Edward

    D Messier wrote: “The sources you cite have reliability problems.

    What a surprise that he would say that. Oh, wait. That was completely predictable.

    You can find anything to support any position you want to take online. It doesn’t mean it’s true.

    Interestingly, D Messier cannot find anything to support his position, but that lack of support just seems to make his position that much more true. Apparently, truth is like a conspiracy theory: it must be true when no evidence of it can be found.

    You worry about your freedom. There’s a big risk right there.

    As with all leftists, following the Constitution is most definitely a risk to freedom and liberty, which would explain why so much evidence of election fraud is coming to light across the country. Freedom only comes from big government telling us how to live our lives and who should rule, because we certainly cannot make good decisions for ourselves. (15 seconds, “The Giver”)

    Obey big government, because thinking for ourselves is just too hard. Ask not what you can do for your country; demand that your country do for you. Besides, someone else will pay for it.

    As for war, many people have failed to see that antifa (Anti First Amendment) and (OS)BLM (Only Selected Black Lives Matter) have already started one. They had even managed to take some territory in Seattle, a couple of months ago. The result of the first battle was to reduce the defense force, the police departments around the country. It seems that now that the election is over, and a short respite so as to stop alienating the voters, the Democrats have set antifa and (OS)BLM on their second battle around the country.

  • wayne

    Tom Waits –
    “What’s he building…?”

  • pzatchok

    For an, any, election to be legitimate you have to convince the loosing side it was.

    Get it.

    Winners always say it was fair and even.

    The republicans have had to put up with hanging chads in Florida, and then Hillary calling it a Russian scheme and Nancy trying to impeach Trump for the last 4 years.

    And the Dems can’t go through ONE recheck and recount.

  • D. Messier


    Your plan for avoiding violence isn’t much of a plan.

    Most of the sources you cite here are extremely ideological. They’re not always wrong, but they’re not especially reliable either. Facts and information are heavily distorted.

    I lot of the concerns that Trump voters have are based on various lies that Trump and his loyalists are telling. The president has been making things up, the way he has for his entire term. His supporters believe it. The reality is Trump’s lawyers are being laughed out of court with their “evidence” of fraud. That’s all over the news. Look it up.

    It’s a waste of time to post anything that disagrees with your ideology here. I posted some links to reliable statistics about COVID-19. I got a response back saying the numbers couldn’t be trusted.

  • wayne

    “The Gangs of New York”
    -political machine elections-

  • Mike

    I take a somewhat pessimistic view of humanity.

    Republicans aren’t going to riot in the streets.

    Democrats were never storming the White House to remove President Trump.

    We’re all too fat, lazy and satisfied to care that much. Maybe in a few generations things will change, but I really don’t see anyone on either side going hot.

    That said, it’s pretty refreshing to have conversations here where we disagree on things, and it rarely devolves into bs middle school fight drama.

    We’re all here because we love science and space, and there is a plethora of other interests and opinions out there. Enjoyed reading all of them.

    Off to donate some Cash to Bob via PayPal, for providing the space. Haha – get it? Space…

  • Edward

    D. Messier wrote: “It’s a waste of time to post anything that disagrees with your ideology here. I posted some links to reliable statistics about COVID-19. I got a response back saying the numbers couldn’t be trusted.

    It continues to be humorous that only E. Messier’s links are reliable but any that he disagrees with are unreliable. What an emotional response by him. Somehow it is OK for him to respond that numbers cannot be trusted, but his numbers must be trusted. One would almost think that he had been the one who worked in the sciences rather than those of us who know better about data.

  • D. Messier


    You don’t know how to evaluate sources for reliability. You start with a belief based on ideology. Then you search the Internet for material published by like minded individuals and organizations who are equally ideological. That becomes your basis of truth.

    I don’t think I’m always right. I enjoy good debates. But I rarely see that from you. I look at the source materials you cite and the authors. Most of the time they’re just not very reliable or well thought out.

  • Edward

    D. Messier,
    You wrote: “You don’t know how to evaluate sources for reliability. You start with a belief based on ideology. Then you search the Internet for material published by like minded individuals and organizations who are equally ideological.

    Nice of you to think that I use your methods of vetting, but I have my sources lined up in advance. Just because you don’t (you once did only a quick search before replying to me) is no reason to project your methods onto me.

    Indeed, your debate style is to change the topic from the one at hand to something else, such as the unreliability of any reference that fails to agree with you. That, to you, is a good debate? What a good way for you to debate, especially when you cannot support your own position. I, too, enjoy good debates, but you are incapable of holding one. Instead you pooh pooh the other person’s points and references, without explanation of why you are right and the other person is wrong. And look, I fell for your tactic. Well, that part is on me.

  • Edward

    D. Messier,
    You wrote: “You don’t know how to evaluate sources for reliability. You start with a belief based on ideology. Then you search the Internet for material published by like minded individuals and organizations who are equally ideological.

    In another thread, you had done a single Google search (did you spend more than a minute on it?) and came up with a quick reference, but did you vet that reference or just accept it because you only do things quickly?

    However, in a later reply in that thread I gave you a real scientist who linked and referenced real science, and I had that link on my fingertips, because I had already vetted it. Now you tell me that you think that I don’t evaluate my sources, including that one, for reliability. If a real scientist who knows real science when he sees it is not reliable, then what do you think of as reliable? This scientist and his links do not agree with your position, so by rejecting his reliability I can only conclude that you merely determine reliability based upon your own ideology rather than based upon science.

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