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Modern fascist America: No mask, no healthcare

Right now my inclination to post or write or do anything is low. In fact, emotionally I am beginning to think there is no point living, as I do not wish to live in a nation as oppressive as America is becoming.

Today I learned unequivocally that in today’s America, you will be denied healthcare if you do not wear a mask, even if you have legitimate medical issues for not doing so. I have both asthma and heart issues, and according to numerous long-standing advisories by both doctors and government health agencies (until May of this year), wearing a mask when you have such conditions is a mistake. To quote just one such advisory from the California Department of Health,:

“Mask use may give the wearer a false sense of security, which might encourage too much physical activity and time spent outdoors. Also, wearing a mask may actually be harmful to some people with heart or lung disease because it can make the lungs work harder to breathe.” [emphasis mine]

Yet now doctors are demanding all patients, no matter their health, wear these feel-good useless muzzles, or they will deny you all treatment.

In late May I simply raised this issue with my long-standing GP, only to receive a letter from him the next day telling me he had cancelled me as a patient. Just raising the issue with him was verboten. Since then I have been trying desperately to find another GP, without success. None will see me without demanding I wear a mask. None will even consider my own health issues in the mix, at all.

Today I arrived at what I thought would be my new GP. I had called his office twice beforehand to explain my health issues and to make sure I would not have an issue when I arrived. All a waste of time. As I was signing in the office manager marched up to demand I put on the mask that she was nonchalantly fingering with her hands. When I pointed out how unsanitary that was, irrelevant of my own issues, she seemed shocked and surprised, as if she had no idea what I was talking about.

Nor was she interested in considering my own situation, or the actual law in Tucson. When I noted that the local ordinances also permit no masks if you can either socially distance (which would be easy to do in her office) or have medical issues, she said that doesn’t matter. Their office requires masks at all times, regardless. Common sense and basic medical science were irrelevant to them.

I was forced to walk out. I presently do not have a doctor to handle my medical issues. Nor do I expect to find one, unless by some miracle there is some local doctor in southern Arizona who understands the absurdity of this mask obsession, reads this post, and offers their help. Personally I have zero expectation of that.

Welcome to the new America. Obey, or you will be denied your most basic human rights of existence.

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On Christmas Eve 1968 three Americans became the first humans to visit another world. What they did to celebrate was unexpected and profound, and will be remembered throughout all human history. Genesis: the Story of Apollo 8, Robert Zimmerman's classic history of humanity's first journey to another world, tells that story, and it is now available as both an ebook and an audiobook, both with a foreword by Valerie Anders and a new introduction by Robert Zimmerman.

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  • jwm

    Interesting how the masking fetish has split very cleanly along political lines. I am experiencing the same sense of despair of ever returning to normal. Every day I read comments on line echoing what you just wrote, and what so many of us are experiencing. I fear greatly that I’ll be living with this horror for the rest of my life. I am reminded of The Mule from Asimov’s Foundation Trilogy. He possessed a supernatural power that broke the will and spirit of those who opposed him. I am reminded of the black gloom that Sauron spread over Gondor before the final battle. The mask is a talisman for those hell bent on the destruction of Western Civilization. It is the atomic bomb of virtue signals. It has become a weapon in their psycho-spiritual war. The faceless are going to rub our noses in their neurosis, and force us to comply every chance they get. The woke are quite aware of the sense of horror that this practice engenders in us, quite aware of who masks and who refuses the mark.
    I have confronted maskatroons face to diapered face. I asked one point blank why he wore the thing walking alone on my street late at night. “I don’t have to explain myself to you, sir.” The maskatroon is impervious to facts.
    At this point in the game there is no more “We’re all in this together”. I feel no obligation to restore unity, no inclination to make peace with those who would destroy us.
    The alignment of sides is complete. The sheep have been separated from the goats.
    The reckoning is coming down fast.


  • Willi

    VERY, VERY depressing. I feel for you…

  • LocalFluff

    I’m speechless to the insanity that suddenly has become apparent in the shape of the most absurd behaviors all over the western world. I can only hope that there will be a big reaction to all of this, but I’m not at all sure. If this could happen, who knows what pops up next?

  • Cotour

    Define “Mask”.

    In order to get proper healthcare during this abnormal time where people have lost a bit of their sanity, might something like this qualify as a “Mask” in your doctors office?

    A face shield V a full blown face mask over your mouth and nose might be a compromise that both you and your doctor and their office manager could live with.

    In trying times give a little to get a little, or else Behind The Black may go Black.

    And no one wants that.

  • Dave H

    A couple of months ago I needed emergency surgery for a life threatening condition. The surgeon was adamant about masks, so I complied. It was one of the only times I have worn a mask. The doctor was so paranoid about covid that he wouldn’t even shake my hand when I thanked him for saving my life.

  • Cotour: You remind me of CNN, where BLM riots were “fiery but mostly peaceful.”

    What if someone has a psychological horror of any kind of face covering? Do they get denied healthcare also, just to cater to these insane “feel-good” fascists?

  • V-Man

    You think this is bad? Here in Quebec, it’s a $600 ticket (up to $6000 for repeat offenders) if the police catches you without a mask in an enclosed public space (shops, movie theaters, etc.). They used to ticket the shops themselves but the shop owners protested that they were not the police.

    Now we have a few more Wuhan flu cases (I wonder if it’s related to the fact they’re doing 3-5 times more tests now? Naww…), they are talking about more severe measures. One of them was complete interdiction of private meetings of 10 people or more, with cops entering houses to count. Thankfully, that was a bridge too far — cries of “police state” have been heard all days, and the provincial government is back-tracking /hard/. But we’re close to the limit, there are anti-mask manifestations every few days now.

  • Dave H: The surgeon was not asking you to do something that was counter to YOUR health needs. I am not being given that courtesy.

  • TCNM

    A strange world we live in. A baker is forced by the courts to bake a cake for a ceremony in conflict with his religion but a physician can refuse to treat a patient for not wearing a mask. The Hippocratic oath has lost its value or never meant anything to younger physicians.

  • Cotour

    ” You remind me of CNN, where BLM riots were “fiery but mostly peaceful.”. Now is that really a justifiable comparison? Really? That is ridiculous.

    I again point out that you are being a bit too black and white, on or off, the mind of an engineer here on the mask issue. Do you really have a “Horror” related to wearing a mask? If so might a different type of “Mask” solve your problem?

    (And honestly, this is what I thought immediately about as I was reading your story but I did not post it because I had some compassion for you and your situation. I was attempting to take you seriously:

    Its now on your chart, now what are you going to do? (A little dark humor. You do remember what humor is, don’t you?

    Im just offering you some kind of compromise in trying times where you can relatively be happy and receive some proper healthcare and the doctor and the people that work for them are happy. In trying times. You have no ability to compromise even though you KNOW your correct? You are unable to wear the lightest of face masks in order to receive essential health services for yourself in trying times?

    (Typical New Yorker who moves to Arizona attitude) You happened to have moved to a state that has gone nuts on the subject of masks.

    Cotour, just like CNN, OK, yeah, thats me. That is exactly what everyone thinks when they read what I post.

  • Cotour: Your willingness to compromise my health in order to keep the peace also reminds me of those Jewish rabbis and leaders in the Warsaw ghetto, who compromised with the Nazis in the belief that a little bit of genocide would in the end be the best solution.

    If you are offended I am sorry, but that is what you are reminding me of.

  • Cotour

    1st, you or anyone else here or pretty much anywhere else can not offend me, I am not offendable. I am a grown man and do not waste my time with such trivia.

    2nd, I am not able to compromise your health in any way shape or form. You are in control of the choices you make in regards to that. I have only offered you a rational different choice with which you might receive the healthcare that you have decided that you need. In trying times. My concern and solution was genuine. I actually care about you.

    As to the leaders of the Warsaw Ghetto leaders who compromised with the Nazi’s. I have already recognized in a previous post related to masks your concerns about the public being too compliant and all too willing in their fears to acquiesce to government mandates. But your analogy here between me and them is a poor one and is not at all applicable. As a matter of fact it is outrageously not applicable.

    And because of your extreme positions on the subject I have to surmise that you really do have a phobia related to masks or mandates and it connects to the Jewish experience / history and it has driven you to these extremes where you are unable to wear the lightest of masks for even an hour to get yourself possibly life saving medical care. The only way you are getting healthcare at this point during the virus event is unconscious and in an ambulance being delivered to a hospital. Does that sound rational to you? Does it sound rational to anyone?

    The key word in the first sentence above is “Extreme”. And in extremism there can be no rational thought, you are a zealot on the subject and are unable to reasonably psychologically deal with this virus America condition. Your just as bad as someone with Trump Derangement syndrome. There is no middle ground, no rational discussion just black and white. And so you have disqualified yourself to comment on this subject. You are an extremist.×500.jpg Mirror time.

    If I have offended you, then good. Maybe it will shock you into actually getting yourself to a doctor and taking care of yourself. In an extreme time in America.

    (And I am thinking, you go into caves? Your a spelunker. You must wear face masks and breathing gear in caves. I scratcheth my head)

  • Tom Biggar

    All I can say is: Make sure the hill you choose to die on is high enough to be worth the cost.

    Good luck and I hope you find a doctor to treat you.

  • Tom Biggar: What I am finding in America today is that no one is willing to die on any hill. Instead, everyone has been and continues to be willing to compromise and compromise and compromise, until nothing is left but a Venezuela socialist paradise.

    We are like the frog being slowly boiled to death. What’s worst is that the cook has been telling us this is what he is doing, and we grin and say, well, just don’t turn the temperature up too fast.

  • Tom Biggar

    I don’t disagree with your analysis. But it sounds like you are not thinking clearly. Your statement that you are having a hard time finding a reason to live is very troubling. That doesn’t sound healthy and your emotional state can easily cloud your judgement. There’s always a reason to live, if only to annoy the SOBs. We need you here and fully functioning. What you do here is valuable. Reach out. Talk to someone. You know how to get hold of me. We can email or talk right now. Please.

  • Tom Biggar: I am not thinking suicide, it that is your concern. Please.

    The energy to do what I love however seems at the moment sapped. Why bother, when I will be living in a fascist hellhole?

    I will recover, only because I have never had a choice in this matter. The horror of the situation right now however must be faced honestly.

  • Tom Biggar

    Glad to hear that. I too have those days when I wonder if it’s all worth it. I think it was Churchill who said: The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter. He persevered and I (we) will too. After the election we will know which fight we are in. But either way I think we will both be still fighting by whatever means we have.

  • Cotour: You once again speculate in ignorance, a dangerous thing to do. For example, no caver caves with a mask, except in very rare cases. It would be (may I say it?) stupid. But then, we have a lot of stupidity these days, masquerading as political and medical wisdom.

  • Cotour

    Talking about Fascism:

    Fox News reporters not allowed to talk about George Soros and how he has paid to install “Progressive” / Leftist prosecutors and attorney generals in the places where all of the “Progressive” radicals are burning and looting in the country?

    Newt Gingrich plainly and correctly states that Soros is behind these activities. Soros through his foundation funds these Leftist prosecutors and attorney generals that refuse to arrest and keep in jail the radicals that we are all watching destroy communities all over the country.

    Have Soros lawyers threatened news organizations with law suits if they talk about these facts about his activities in America? What else could it be? Why would they back down on the issue and just go silent? Looks like they got the word not to discuss Soros.

    I do not like this.

    If journalism truly is dead, then with that death we are all threatened.

    (Is something in the DOJ / legal world going on that is focusing on Soros and his activities and they are not to talk about it?)

  • Cotour

    Out of everything that I said above, you focus on my comment about caving?

    (And don’t use the word stupid, its stupid. And no one here is stupid. Maybe a little pig headed, but not stupid.)

  • Ken Franks

    Agree 100% Robert. Peripheral case in point. My father died 3 weeks ago in an ED after fighting a long history of heart disease and renal failure. I live 2 hrs away and had to get there to release his body. In the ED, I was met by a nice young gentleman who administered the usual interrogation concerning exposure, contacts, symptoms, et al. Then I encountered the triage nurses (BTW, I am a retired ED nurse with 35 yrs in the healthcare industry). He insisted I don a mask, to which I replied “ I do not wear a mask for medically appropriate reasons”. He then asked me “what reasons might those be”? I replied, “I choose not to share that with you”. (Those conditions are actually freedom and liberty. Not to mention the scientifically proven ineffectiveness of masks). He then threw a mask my way and said “Just put this on”. I simply walked away and took care of the business at hand.
    What has this country become? No compassion, no higher level of thought, no basic common sense. Sheep.
    Comply or be gone.

  • Michael G. Gallagher

    I’ve posted these links before at various sites, including here. and I’ll keep posting it here and elsewhere up until the election, and beyond if the Harris-AOC-Sanders-Oma cabal wins. There are choices between submission and going for your guns. Not that guns may not be necessary at some point in the future, but they should definitely be regarded as a last resort. Just make sure a leftist regime in Washington and in certain states and cities can’t function. Beat the mechanics of government with a very large non-violen wrench.

  • Michael G. Gallagher

    Why has my comment been blocked?

  • Michael G. Gallagher: You had two links in the comment. Such comments go to moderation until I get to them.

  • Which is also why I deleted your second try. No reason to see it twice.

  • Edward

    I think that everyone here has missed the point. Our fearful leaders have instilled fear into our shopkeepers, doctors, and other service providers and producers. Our leaders keep insisting upon fines, jail time, and even murder trials for those who fail to wear masks. Comply or lose your freedom. Well, what little freedom remains.

    Now, in order to receive healthcare you, personally, have to risk your health. Oh the irony! The doctors go along with the tyranny, because they fear the consequences of the alternative.

    This is what tyranny looks like. We thought that it couldn’t happen here, but it has. This is why I reject the idea that this year is the most important election of our lifetime; it was the 2008 election, the results of which allowed the creation of the conditions that allow this tyranny.

    Welcome to Obama’s America, land of the formerly free.

  • Edward: Good point. However there is one more component. A free people are also a courageous people. Freedom entails risk, and to want freedom you most accept that risk.

    We are now a culture that fears everything, and is willing to give up everything just avoid any risk. In this case, to echo Ben Franklin, anyone who trades freedom for a bit of false security deserves neither.

  • wayne

    “In Our Hands: How To Lose What We Have”
    Wilding Picture Productions– 1950

  • Edward

    In addition, up to now I had believed that our medical professionals knew the proper way to handle PPE, but the story of that office manager informs us that they do not. Did she even bother to wash her hands before handling that mask or was she merely emulating the poor behavior that she sees in the general public? The situation is worse than we had thought. Public health is fleeting, even within the public health providers. This is what Obamacare has brought us, centralized control over healthcare. Obey or die.

  • Alex Andrite

    Ah. 28 posts to this point.
    Pretty good Mr. Z. Always good stuff.

    Now shall we discuss Life ?
    What about Truth ?
    And Reason ?

    Gentle kindness, hope, love ?

    I have seen, and participated in, the options.
    It was an ugly dark and empty time for me.
    I choose not to return.


  • Alex Andrite: “Now shall we discuss Life ? What about Truth ? And Reason ? Gentle kindness, hope, love ?”

    I saw none of those things at this doctor’s office today. Or from any doctor I have tried to deal with for the last three months. To quote you, “ugly dark and empty time.”

    Your last line puzzles me however. Did my post turn you off so much that you are gone? Sigh.

  • ” It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man’s fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call the Twilight Zone.”

    Twilight Zone intro: Season 1.

    I tell people I work with that we are living in an Age of Insanity. So far, kept heads down and see what happens. That time is over. Looking to rock the boat.

  • wayne

    Good, stuff!

    Outer Limits (19630
    Intro & End Titles

  • Honking

    There is increasingly little support behind the masks. Maybe in SF and NY, but not elsewhere. People are increasingly lax with putting on masks, increasingly bold skirting of the mandates, decreasing attention to “social distancing”.

    Don’t see the nurse fingering the mask as neglect of sanitiation, but as a quiet rebellion against a increasingly silly ideology.

    This is how socialist states die: with exasperated huffs, rolled eyes, and non-obvious civil disobedience/laziness. It took 70 years in Russia, and less than seven months in America.

    Don’t believe in the illusion of “sheeple” the media sells you. Americans are catching on, most just aren’t raising a fuss about it.

  • Michael G. Gallagher

    Sorry, Mr. Zimmeran, I may be getting a little paranoid these days.

  • Mitch S.

    Mr Z,
    Sorry to read you’re feeling unwell and unhappy.
    Frankly this mask panic isn’t my greatest concern regarding society’s ills.
    I’m much more concerned about the intolerance, “cancel culture”, racism and acceptance of violence on the left.
    Seeing the NFL cower and bend to BLM makes me feel ill. They have turned every football game into a version of the 1936 Berlin Olympics.
    From my observations the mask situation is the product of a media promoted panic. I know Trump supporters who are frightened of Covid and hide behind masks and walls.
    Sure there are some out there who enjoy the power of making people do uncomfortable things, and are using the panic for political ends. But most of the enthusiastic mask wearers are genuinely afraid. They’ve seen the reports about how infectious and dangerous the virus is (according to the media they follow).
    These people will not respond positively to people “asserting their right to not wear a mask”. As far as the mask wearers are concerned it’s as if you walked into the room with a jar of nitroglycerin – you are selfishly putting them in danger.

    Where is this leading? Looking at the vid of the Target protesters in the previous post, and thinking about hat I’ve observed in my area (NYC suburbs), I see the hysteria fading. Notice the mask protesters were not attacked or challenged, the other shoppers and the store staff were pretty blase.
    (BTW how would you feel if the protesters took off their clothes and walked around saying “take it off”? If nobody has the right to make them cover their faces why should they be made to cover their genitalia?).
    In the meantime Conservatives and other sensible people need to get off the soapboxes and be the adults in the room.

  • Rick

    September 17, 2020 at 2:30 pm
    Define “Mask”.


    In trying times give a little to get a little, or else Behind The Black may go Black.

    And no one wants that”

    No one wants what? To confront tyranny and evil? You are wrong sir, million of free people in this country want to confront them, beat them into the dirt and stomp the life out of them.

    People like you have been “giving a little” over and over and over again for decades and now, because of their constant compliance and willingness to accept tyranny little by little, we find ourselves in the position we are in today.

    No, not one inch of compromise, no negotiation with evil! They are the enemy and the enemy must be stamped out through a civil war now. It is the inevitable conclusion of this battle between tyrants and free men. There will be blood and once started, there will be nobody and nothing that stops it until one side utterly destroys the other. That is the only solution at this point precisely because of people like you willing to “give a little” of your freedom away.

  • Cotour

    Mitch S;

    Your rational comment borders on heresy on BTB.

  • creeper

    Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!

    I have COPD. I also have a cataract that needs to be removed. It has progressed to the point where it makes driving problematic No eye surgeon in a two-state area will see me without a mask.

    This includes the surgeon who operated on the other eye two years ago and whose patient records reflect that COPD.

    I am forced to choose between breathing and seeing. The medical profession is evidently composed of people who never passed a course in critical thinking and didn’t need a virology credit. That theses people are supposedly responsible for keeping me healthy is frightening.

  • M

    I agree 100%. I have only worn a mask for 4 doctors visits for my children. I’ve cancelled all of my own.

    The neurologist visit with my daughter was the most concerning. The masks hide all the nonverbal communication that out minds rely on. I felt like the doctor did not hear my concerns at all. And, i feel like I didn’t really understand his stance. Luckily this isn’t a life threatening issue…but so many doctor-patient interactions are. And doctors are loosing critical pieces of information because of the masks.

  • Michael Stone

    I took my dogs out for a drive last night around downtown Tucson.
    It’s very sad to see so few people out on a Thursday night. Even though some bars are open they are mostly empty as most people are too scared to go out.

    The only good thing about the masks, as far as I can tell, is it makes it easier to spot idiots/cowards. Anyone who wears one when they are alone is someone I need to avoid.

    The ease with which this whole thing was imposed is truly frightening. It seems we are a nation of cowards, now. Scary stuff.

  • Troy Galebach

    Robert, I wish you well in your quest to receive medical care. I am in the higher risk group too, being 71 with a bad heart. Yet the other day I too was asked to don a mask to receive medical care. I did so, but let it be known that 3 months ago in the same Dr. Office, none was required.

    We live in a time when we have fewer courageous citizens than ever before in our short history. I haven’t worn a mask but for this instance, nor can I see myself doing so again. My Dad once told me about the typhus, polio, and cholera epidemics which took many of his family members when he was young. Yet, even with higher mortality rates, life went on for those folks.

    No doubt, we live in crazy times because too many are fearful of what might happen to them. Just thank God we don’t need to take the beaches at Normandy with this group of wimps.

  • Gary

    My county, the building where I rent my office space, my office, staff and doctors are required to wear a mask. We limit the number of patients that can come in our office and record temperature and history before they enter. Staff and doctors also record oximeter reading. We crazy clean per early CDC recommendations.
    I have lost 10 of my 12 front staff since the virus shutdown. One to cancer, two moved, two moved on and the rest were tied to the virus fears. I am struggling to stay open. My staff and doctors are fearful regardless of what I say and the liability issues regarding care contrary to county health guidelines are real. I live in the nanny state of California. If a patient refused to wear a mask for the 45 minutes they were in my office, they would not be admitted into my building and would not make it to my front door. My reality is that I must make my staff comfortable enough that they come to work. Who is right here is not the issue. No employees.. nobody can seek care from my offices. I am on the verge of financial collapse due to staffing issues. Seeing me and my colleagues based on our policies is a choice that my patients make. Working for my office is a free choice made daily by my staff. I am a 67 year old asthmatic and I choose to work. I could have easily had another doctor cover for me. I wear a mask every day. I have staff the let me know that they are upset when they see me without a mas while sitting alone in an exam room with the door open. I now keep the door closed. My upset staff person has been with me for 13 years and is very loyal, but she would wear a hazmat suit if she could. It saddens me to see her go on harboring such fear, but she never misses a shift.

  • Lisa

    I completely understand and have seen this coming a mile away. They are denying people HCQ treatment and causing the death rate from covid to be much higher than it has to be, so they can push their medical tyranny forward. They are probably killing more people with the shutdowns than covid would, and destroying our country in the process. They won’t give pain medication to people suffering. These aren’t accidents, they are the plan. It is depressing to see what you thought were decent people ‘just following orders’ or becoming outright selfish and cruel. People who aren’t on board with the new tyranny have been demonized. It’s the US version of the Chinese cultural revolution, and it’s depressing, and yes, deadly. I don’t expect to have the long life I would in a free country. My only hope lies in Jesus because man on his own is depraved, and that is becoming more obvious every day.

    As for myself, it is very stressful as I know it is for you, but I am trying to treat each event as a one-time issue and simply skirt the rules as much as I can, because dying on the no-mask hill for medical treatment won’t benefit anyone. I have postponed many doctor’s appointments but I can’t continue. So I try to wear the mask for the minimal time needed to prolong my health, knowing at some point they will cut me off totally and let me die. At my last doctor visit the covid police forced me to put a mask on in the waiting room where I was far from anyone else. She didn’t care about any breathing issues I might have. But she also didn’t care that I used my hand to hold the mask out 1-2 inches from my face so I could breathe for the whole time. The appearance of compliance was good enough to satisfy the little tyrant. I need an MRI soon and I will face the same problem and it’s stressful to deal with the fear of this every time I go to the doctor. But I decided I should keep trying, or no medical care for me. I will ask if they have alternatives to minimize the mask wearing (wait in your car, etc.). I suggest you do the same. Or just go in and pretend to wear a mask (cut holes in a patterned on where they won’t notice) for as short a time as possible and if they get ugly, you will have to leave. But do what you can for yourself and don’t give up. It is disheartening to see the insanity and cruelty, but please don’t give up. There is hope, and I have prayed for you.

  • pzatchok

    I have good news.

    As soon as this election is over watch for the MSM to start asking when the mask mandates will end and start blaming Trump for keeping them going.

    The anti Trump Governors will keep the mandate going claiming they are waiting for a vaccine and its Trumps fault for not spending enough money to create one. People actually think a vaccine can be created in a few months just by throwing money at it. (They think any problem can be solved this way)

    All this stuff will stop soon after the election.

  • pzatchok

    And between you and me.
    The private club I am a member of has never required a mask. They are serving food and alcohol and not imposing ANY space restriction.
    People are even dancing together. No masks.

  • Sam

    (BTW how would you feel if the protesters took off their clothes and walked around saying “take it off”? If nobody has the right to make them cover their faces why should they be made to cover their genitalia?)

    How many arrests for public indecency have been made for the feminists and extinction rebellion people who’ve protested in the buff? None? Crazy considering all the outrage expressed here and by other skeptic pundits on the issue, huh?

    Also, how we FEEL about it is moot, considering many jurisdictions will fine you or throw your a$$ in jail for not masking. If you would like to argue against masks AND public decency laws (or justifying both) then have at it. Here’s guessing you will choose whatever limits people’s liberty, though. What, with being the only adult in the room and all…

  • Max

    Locally in Utah, there are protests over the masks. People who are afraid, threaten to shut down BYU because the young people who go there to find “like minded lifetime partners” refuse not to socialize. (Winter is coming, they want to have fun)
    I reported a school district refuse to shut down because positive test is not the same as people being sick. Teachers union backed down and did not walk out. Two more school districts followed their lead and did not shut down because of a few positive tests. Now suddenly there’s 100% increase, a spike in the testing numbers that came out of nowhere. 800 and climbing. 40% of the positives are from, you guessed it, BYU.

    Here’s an update just posted, they found more people to test positive, I keep wondering what hospitals are they in? Not where my daughter works.

    Another record-breaking day Friday as Utah sees 1,117 more COVID-19 cases, no new deaths

    To make matters worse, a teacher was just put into ICU on a ventilator having the virus for a couple of weeks now. As a result because she went to all the activities and ballgames, 500 people are being isolated and the school board, who just voted not to shut down three days ago, are meeting at this moment.

    The Empire strikes back!

    The emergency declaration in Utah expired, the legislators met and did not renew the emergency. No one reported this in the media…
    Because of the new uptick in testing numbers, the governor is thinking of mandating masks… (it sounded like he was reading Joe Biden’s speech of forced compliance)
    He does not have the authority to do so, this is against the law.
    The mayors and councilmembers appear to be backing him up against the elected legislature. He says in that article that he will use all means at his disposal. (The ends justify the means)
    This makes no sense.
    Unemployment is 4.1, Utah is doing well and recovering quickly. This should stop that progress. The plan Demic has always been political in nature.

    I just saw a old picture of Nazi soldiers with there hand in the air, all wearing blue masks.
    The caption said; “put on your mask and join us!” And in small letters below that it said; “OR ELSE”

  • creeper

    Addendum to my comment at O555

    I did find one eye surgeon in the neighboring state who would see me without a mask if I provided a letter of confirmation of my COPD from my GP. I requested that letter Monday morning. On Wednesday I called to ask if it were ready for pick-up or would be mailed. Staff told me, “Doctor has not replied to the message.”. It is now Friday afternoon, with call and no sign of the letter.

    Like Mr. Zimmerman, I have nowhere to turn. History is rife with stories of what happens when you leave people nowhere to go.

  • Bryan

    Any doctor that does not put your medical condition at the top of his priority is not a doctor you should be trusting with any part of your health. Those you have encountered so far have exposed themselves to not having your best interests at heart. Keep looking, you will find someone reasonable although you may have to travel a significant distance.

    My wife had medical problems a couple of years ago and those we had trusted for years exposed themselves as non-thinking robots there only for the purpose of generating income. It was quite disconcerting. However with some due diligence we were able to locate better services from better facilities at about one fourth the costs (no insurance). We had to travel 1000 miles one way but it was definitely worth it.

    Bottom line, you are the customer. Don’t do business with someone who doesn’t want it.

    Best of luck to you.

  • John C

    The point of the rule is that it is the rule. When something is made into a rule, the initial point is sidelined and the main point becomes the rule itself. Also, masks are stupid.

  • John hare

    I think it should be mentioned that these doctors are likely protecting themselves from lawsuits and legal action more so than from the virus itself. IOW, they are not the enemy any more than the cop that is required to enforce stupid and unpopular laws. My point is that the doctor is in a vice as well.

    It seems unlikely that one cannot find some form of compliance to the mask fetish in certain situations (Medical treatment) that still allows decent respiration.

  • Bonnie

    I think people are misunderstanding the problem of those who MEDICALLY cannot wear a mask. It’s not an issue of being anti-mask or picking a no mask hill to die on. I would literally asphyxiate if I wore a mask. I cannot compromise and “just wear one while I wait in the doctors office “. In three minutes I would be on the floor and they would have to be calling 911. I also have hypersensitivity and I cannot wear a shield for any length of time. I found out 20 years ago that I cannot wear a mask. I also found out that masks do not block tiny viruses but they certainly do block the much larger oxygen molecules.

  • Max

    I told my daughter about this thread, asked what people with diminished lung capacity or breathing problems were doing during this wo-flu whom could not wear a mask.

    It’s not her department, but the word is the portable breathing machines and oxygen bottles are getting scarce due to the demand.
    It’s the only way many people can go out, with there own oxygen supply, without getting harassed by the mask Nazis. There have been special allowances made with Medicare/ medicaid because of the ongoing circumstances.

  • D. Messier

    “Welcome to Obama’s America, land of the formerly free.”

    Still blaming Obama 3+ years into the Trump presidency. Sheesh!

    The mask requirement is from medical experts. It’s a public health matter. It’s not part of some liberal plot to take away your freedoms.

  • Cotour

    Australia would be more like what America would look like if someone like a Joe Biden, or a Phill Murphy, or a Gretchen Whitmer were to become president. 6 min.

    What’s going on in Australia? 11 weeks of lock down, quarantine and essentially isolation from the rest of the world. No herd immunity, there is only waiting for a effective vaccine. That is Australia for the next year? 2 years? When does this even get better? There is no natural cycle in place, that has been disrupted by the political class that lives in fear.

    Scared paranoid politicians attempting to control nature through the opinion of “Experts”, and the result will be unnecessary economic destruction and abuse of power.

    I think what would help things here in the U.S. would be if the Congress would come up with some legal immunity from liability V Covid that might lessen some of the hyper concerns in doctors offices and hospitals. What ever that would look like I am not sure.

    I think the perceived danger and being forced or strongly encouraged to wear a mask in certain situations, whether real or amplified and imagined by the public, combined with this lurking liability potential go along way to disrupting and long term destroying many peoples lives and businesses.

    And because of the moment in the political cycle and the very high tensions and pressures that exist and that we find ourselves in, primarily for the Democrat party, the possible liability immunity component of the equation will have to wait.

    The Congress, controlled by the Democrats will do absolutely NOTHING related to solving ANYTHING as long as Trump remains president. And the pressure will now increase at the passing of Ruth B. Ginsberg.

    And as for the media pumping the fear, that too is a result of their political affiliations (D) and now Leftist self interests.

    And we will all suffer for it in many different ways.

    But not as bad as Australia. It can always be worse.

  • Edward

    How terrible is it that the medical community has forgotten that its first instruction is to do no harm, yet here they are demanding that people wear masks that their conditions make harmful to them. Somehow a temporary bureaucratic rule has become more important than the patient.

    A temporary bureaucratic rule has become more important than the patient.

    We were warned when Obamacare was being debated but were assured that such an absurd thing couldn’t happen, but it happened anyway. (D. Messier: since you think that legacies cannot last three years then Obamacare can no longer be considered his legacy, or anything else, for that matter — so why did Obama blame Bush for everything bad all through Obama’s eight-year regime?) We not only gave up all our liberty, but we even lost the health security for which we gave it up. What government department do we go to in order to get our liberty back, and which one for our healthcare?

    Where did the “care” portion of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act go?

    No one believed the “protection” portion of the act, and everyone always scoffed at the “affordable” part. Who knew that care would be dropped altogether? At one time, care was delayed — called optional surgery — and people who needed scheduled surgeries had to wait, no matter how life threatening their condition may have been. We have already learned that Obamacare can’t even handle a minor flu, instead requiring that we treat it as a new and deadly plague about to kill off half the planet.

    In the name of saving just one life, we have lost it all. Healthcare, liberty, livelihoods, and our economy. I once wondered what we would sacrifice in order to save a single life; what was a single life worth? Now we know it is worth everyone else’s life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, and livelihood. I sure hope we are able to find that one saved life soon so that we can finally end this cluster bleep. However, with our fearful leaders willing to send ailing Wuhan Plague victims into nursing homes, the search may be futile.

    So now that we blew it, lost the most important election in our lifetimes in 2008, failed to be sufficiently vigilant, and are now mired deep in Obama’s tyranny, how do we extricate the country from it?

  • D. Messier

    Edward: You are blaming Obama for a mask mandate that has nothing to do with Obamacare that was implemented during Donald Trump’s presidency to address a pandemic declared 3 years after he left office?

    This makes zero sense. You’re directing rage about one thing indiscriminately at another. It is an opportunity to vent.

    There are 200,000 dead. At some point you need to direct all that rage at Trump, Jared, Pence and the rest of the bozos who screwed up the pandemic response.

  • Irene Lawler

    One intelligent voice in a sea of angry little boys. Thank you D.Messier (very nice pen name). Sadly, Mr. Z’s core readership are clearly of a mind with him.

    I checked out this website to learn a bit about Mr. Z, after starting to read his book, The Universe in a Mirror, on the Hubble space telescope. His comments in the preface — specifically an arrogant admonishment to astronomers that they’d “be well-advised to listen to [him] if they want to keep their [funding]” — struck me as just a tad out-of-place for a science writer, especially one who is not a scientist.

    Perusing this site, I see that Mr. Z is much less a science writer and much more an Opinion Writer. I wish him well. And I’m delighted that younger and
    more open-minded Science Writers are the norm now.

  • pzatchok

    D. Messier

    Number of deaths: 2,813,503 ,annually

    Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 160,201
    Influenza and Pneumonia: 55,672
    These two are the most effected by Covid. I bet a HUGE amount of them have been attributed to covid this year.

    So far we are only slightly above our annual mortality rate. Very slightly.
    This is not some Zombie apocalypse yet. Even though I wish it was some days.

  • pzatchok

    Directing rage at Trump for this is not correct.

    He could not have done anything to stop it or mitigate it. Nothing.
    It was already loose on North America by the time anyone knew of it.

    He could not close the borders faster. (the left stopped the wall at every turn. Its more their fault)

    He could not have predicted the mask mandate and doesn’t have the power to order you to put one on. That is the governors job.

    Nothing since the first Covid day is being held against Trump by any free thinking human in the USA. Not the virus and not the economy.

  • wayne

    You go right on reminding us all, that we’re living in obama’s amerika.
    I had to listen to that communist puke, spew his endless lies for 8 years.

  • Cotour

    Irene Lawler: So you found out that the Zman can be wound a little tight?

    ” And I’m delighted that younger and more open-minded Science Writers are the norm now.”.

    “Younger and MORE open minded”, now that sounds a bit chilling to me. Sounds very “Progressive”.

    D. Messier: Mr. Obama has issued in the “Progressive” American “Enlightened” age. The two, the mask wearing mandate push and the “Progressive” agenda are well connected. As are the race issues, the rioting, the “Right” to loot, the burning of property, the license to murder, Reparations, irrational bail reform, CHAZ, CHOP, Mueller etc. and every other offence to American common sense going on in America today ties directly back to the Obama administration. Without doubt, where have you been?

    Let us not be naive, let you not be naive. Obama was but the entre into the magnificent Hillary Clinton, the first American female president administration and our country being delivered into the “Wonderful, new age” Globalist / Socialist world model where America is only a hollow shell of its former self. A requirement for such and agenda.

    Then came Trump. And no one else being in the presidency would have made much of any of a difference to the alleged number of deaths due to Corona. And you can take that to the bank.

  • F16 Guy


    As always, many of these comments have me shouting “YES” from the confines in front of my computer screen.

    Have you considered allowing your readers to ‘vote’ on posts they like or dislike, by placing up or down icons in each post?

  • sippin_bourbon

    The number of ad hominem attacks in this thread are ridiculous.

  • Cotour

    Irene and D. Messier, put your teeth in and chew on this:

    Newt Gingrich: “The No. 1 problem in all these cities is George Soros-funded elected, anti-police, pro-criminal district attorneys, who refuse to keep people locked up,” Gingrich said Wednesday. “Just yesterday, they put someone back on the street that’s wanted for two different murders in New York City. You cannot solve this problem when both [Kamala] Harris and [Joe] Biden have talked very proudly about what they call progressive district attorneys.”

    And Gingrich is 100 percent correct, and its all connected back to the Obama administration. Also 100 percent.

    And if you watched this horror play out the other day, where Gingrich was told not to talk a bout Soros, now that should outrage you also! And I do not know why Gingrich was so accepting of the command from Harf. That entire segment should have blown up with Gingrich angrily chastising them all. Shaped and curated news is no news at all.

    Was it because the talking heads were told not to talk about Soros? Obviously Marie Harf was told not to. Was it because Soros is a Jew and you can not talk in negative terms about a Jew in the “Politically correct” environment in America today? What if Soros was a black Jew? Then what?

    I suppose at that point Soros would be able do as he pleased and no would be able to confront or talk negatively about him? Become a black Jew and rule the “Politically Correct” world? Hell he is doing that now without much detection and push back.

    The First Amendment is certainly a very sharp double edged sword. But there is a line.

  • Andrew M Winter

    My most sincere sympathies.

    This is a massive mess. :( I can’t even begin to figure out how to fight it. But fight it we must.

    Somehow I feel like that tiny little group of folks in Boston (The Sons of Liberty) staring the might of the British Empire in the face and wondering, “How do we fight that and live?”

    Or, do we just give up on the option of living and fight anyway?

  • F16 Guy: I will not do what you suggest. Voting “likes” and “dislikes” is childish, and a very shallow way to discuss the issues of the day. That social media is seeped in it is one reason we are where we are.

    Better for people to hash things out in thoughtful debate. If they don’t like what I’ve written, they are free to comment in detail (and in a civilized way), explaining what they don’t like. I learn from this, they learn from this, we all learn from this.

    Hitting a checkmark teaches nothing, and in fact acts to close everyone’s mind.

  • john hare

    Somewhere in these comments I suggested that a way should be found to satisfy the individuals requiring masks if you need their medical services. I agree that the mask mandates are wrong, and that the vast majority of people use them wrong, and that the normal masks can be hazardous to certain individuals.

    My disagreement is this. If I put were at risk by wearing a standard mask, and I needed the services of people that required them, then I would make it my business to find a way to satisfy their requirements without putting myself at risk. Possibly investigate different materials in the mask, or a positive pressure system by a battery fan. I would not choose blindness or death because someone else will not change their policy if it is in my power to work around the issue.

  • F16 Guy


    Thanks for the response. I can’t find fault with your explanation.

  • Edward

    D. Messier,
    In response to my comment: “Welcome to Obama’s America, land of the formerly free,” you wrote: “Still blaming Obama 3+ years into the Trump presidency. Sheesh!

    Obama is the one who said he would fundamentally transform America, and this tyranny is the result. First, he transformed the government into one that could direct us as to how to spend our own money. What other tyrannical government in all of history believed that it had that power? Name me one. This is not a rhetorical question; I honestly want to know.

    I’ll wait for the results of your research …

    While you’re working on that, allow me to add that the federal government’s purpose, as stated in the Constitution is to “secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity.” What part of directing us as to how to spend our own money is a part of the blessings of liberty? What part of lockdowns are liberty? What part of shutting down our businesses? Destroying our jobs? Closing medical facilities to any healthcare other than Wuhan Plague? Mandating masks? It may look like one size fits all, but in this case looks can kill.

    Where do you think our liberty is, these days?

    Second, Obama told his party’s ruling class that it was acceptable to rule through a phone and a pen, running around the proper procedures of checks and balances from the other branches of government. Here we are, in governor-imposed lockdowns and arbitrary shutdowns, with the threat of smackdowns if we disobey this Great Oppression, and we are sacrificing it all: our lives, our liberty, our pursuit of happiness, our livelihoods, all to save a modeled 40,000 lives in nursing homes, yet seven governors sent Wuhan Plague patients into those very same nursing homes undoing all the good that our sacrifices were supposed to bring. All it took was for them to use their phones and their pens so that no check could prevent them from doing such a horrific thing.

    The Great Oppression is piling up collateral damage, in lost lives, lost healthcare, lost liberty, lost education, lost earnings and savings, lost homes, lost jobs, and uncountable other losses. What a cluster bleep.

    That you don’t understand that our national culture has changed under Obama’s watch is tragic and explains why it was so easy for the tyrants to take control of your life. How intelligent is the voice that misses that change and fails to miss his freedom?

    In a free society, the population makes its own decisions. In a tyranny, the population is told what to do. Obama’s administration fundamentally transformed our government into one that tells us what to do: stay home, wear masks, close businesses, reopen at government’s whim and reclose also at government’s whim. Is this country our country or is it our rulers’s country and we merely do all the work to keep them fed, warm, and happy?

    Would our governments in the Bush era have thought that it was acceptable to violate everything that America stands for, is based upon, and believes in? I don’t think so, either.

  • Gary

    A simple solution is to have the doctor order a Covid-19 swab test. My ENT refused to see me without a test. Once tested, at least he knew that I would not be passing anything to him. I believe that he took frequent tests. Really, just an inconvenience, but it would offer a solution. Most locals are not testing without symptoms, but will test upon doctor’s orders. You could argue that the test was unnecessary, but the doctor needs to not only reassure himself that there isn’t a risk, but must also reassure his employees that they are not at risk.

  • Cotour

    A worth while watch on the general subject at hand:

  • D. Messier

    pzatchok: Trump & Co. screwed up the response to this pandemic. A total failure. Nobody but Trump’s most fervent supporters believe otherwise.

    Cotour: Soros is the all-purpose Republican bogeyman. That Gingrich is scapegoating him only exposes the lack of answers. Gingrich is a blow hard who had his day during the 1990’s.

    Edward: I’ll say this again: Obama isn’t president anymore. He’s not responsible for anything that’s happened during the pandemic. End of story.

  • wayne

    D. Messier–
    Q: who did you support in 2016, and who do you support right now? (presidential election)

  • Cotour

    BOGEMAN: “The Boogeyman is a mythical creature used by adults to frighten children into good behavior”

    D. Messier, you sir are out of touch with what is in fact on going in America and the world. Mr. Soros is very real and is not a mythical character that the Republicans use as a political whipping boy, his activities are very real and he himself has proposed that he help “Fix” the Constitution.

    And newt Gingrich was and is 100 % correct about Mr. Soros and his funding of all of those prosecutors and attorney’s generals who preside over the now many “Progressive” run Democrat states where they in fact just release violent criminals based in their newly installed “Bail reform”. Scapegoating? My God man, wake up.

    Your ignorance on the subject is stellar and makes you a danger to yourself, your family and the country.

  • Cotour

    D. Messier: A little bit more on Mr. Soros:

    No one is allowed to talk about or mention Mr. Soros’s name on Fox, and if you do you are cancelled. Why is that? Victoria Toensing tells how she and her husband were banned from Fox for asserting the truth, just like Newt, about Soros’s activities.

    Soros is without doubt spending his billions on disrupting and destroying the America that you know (I will default and say that you love) in order to replace it with his “Progressive” / Globalist interpretation of what he thinks America should be. A hell scape of utopian Socialism, it just has not been done correctly yet and Soros is the man to get it done right. Pure, elite, intellectual vomit.

    And from what I can see he is being fairly well successful. But you are unable to detect it?

    Mr. Soros spends his money legally as he pleases in America and that just goes to show that the First Amendment is a very sharp sword that cuts both ways. But there are limits, and there are consequences to elections.

    America is certainly a counter intuitive country in many aspects.

  • Cotour

    In the Wokest parts of Australia, Victoria, we see the Joe Biden America? 7min.

    Indefinite detention for violators during Covid emergency?

    Isolation has a very high cost, and you will comply.

  • D. Messier

    I didn’t mean that Soros doesn’t exist. It’s just that he seems to get blamed for practically everything by lazy hacks like Newt who have no answers.

    And what the hell does Soros have to do with the mask issue anyway? These debates are a chance for people to vent about everything under the sun. Masks are bad, but let me tell you about Soros and Obama…they’re awful!

  • Cotour

    Its all connected one way or another, and your ignorance on the subject of Soros is troubling to say the least. You become an apologist for Soros essentially as you attempt to discount and ignore his activities.

    Inform yourself, don’t be an apologist.

  • Edward

    D. Messier,
    You are having difficulty comprehending the concept that a change in governance can be permanent,* that governors can take their cues even from previous presidents, that slaves freed by Lincoln remain free even after Lincoln is no longer president.** Indeed, even the Supreme Court ruled that executive orders of one president cannot be rescinded by another. The Supreme Court ruled in favor of the permanence of tyranny, once established. There is no reset button when a new president takes office. You seem to feel that the present problems are all the fault of the current president (except for when Obama was president, of course, when everything wrong was all Bush’s fault — you didn’t complain about that-– and cannot come from the fundamental transformation that a previous president foisted upon us.

    So it is not just possible but is a fact that Obama’s transformed America is living on. He left his lieutenants behind to inhibit the dismantling of his governance. These include governors who have done great harm to nursing homes and the economy in ways that they learned from Obama. The communist may be out of office, but his influence and executive orders remain in force.

    The simple solution is to remove the tyranny. Caving in to the tyranny only gives it permission to go further, to slide farther down the slippery slope that we are now tumbling down, head over heels. What have they been teaching in civics class, these past four decades? They used to teach us that our country is based upon liberty and to watch out for the tyranny.

    Well, the tyranny is here, and we need to do something about it. Why do so few people understand this? Instead we are being inundated with methods for how to live with this tyranny rather than remove it. No wonder Robert is frustrated. It isn’t a lack of courage, it is a lack of awareness that keeps us from taking back our country. It is past time to wake up and smell the tyranny. It is a terrible stench that is killing us, just as it killed a hundred million in Europe and Asia in the twentieth century. The frog is nearing boiling.

    The tyranny was imposed politically. It is too bad that our current politicians are not yet motivated to remove the tyranny politically. Who will motivate them if we remain unaware that we are living in a tyrannical state?

    How do we know that we live in a tyranny? Not only are we told what to do, but we fear the repercussions of disobeying. Obey or else be excessively fined or even be tried for a murder that didn’t occur.

    Everyone has been conditioned to believe that Wuhan flu is as deadly as the Bubonic Plague.: catch it and you or someone you meet will die. Not “might die” but” will die,” which is why one politician feels we should be charged with murder for not wearing masks, whether or not we get sick or cause anyone else to become sick. We already know the vulnerable population, but our fearful leaders do very little to protect them. Instead, we “protect” everyone else, increasing the number of opportunities and prolonging the time for the virus to make its way to the vulnerable people.

    Virtually every move that the tyranny has made has been contrary to long established protocols for handling an outbreak. The president established travel bans, expedited manufacture of medical equipment, and provided emergency medical facilities, but virtually every other leader did the opposite of rational procedures.

    Despite decades of science that shows masks do not prevent the spread of viruses, and despite the tyrants telling us that they do no good, they mandated their use. Now we are conditioned to fear anyone with a bare face. Yet the evidence is that masks are in fact harmful. The only real change, this summer, was mask mandates, but shortly after these mandates we had an increase in hospitalizations and shortly after that deaths increased. Summertime is when flus wane, because we get outside and away from them, but wearing masks merely put us back in close contact with them again.

    The science does not matter, and if we disobey the tyrants then they claim that we are the ones denying the science — the very science that only a few months ago they were citing when directing us to not wear masks. The masses are somehow allowing our fearful leaders to have it both ways. Our fearful leaders are like three-year-old children who demand that they always have their way no matter the change in conditions. Don’t wear masks, they don’t help; wear masks to save lives. Science doesn’t work like that, unless it is Lysenkoism.

    Who needs liberty and self determination when some uncaring bureaucrat a thousand miles away can tell us how to live, even when it is contrary to our individual needs or individual healthcare requirements? The American dream is dead; long live the progressive dream.

    * As well as finding another tyranny that thought it had the right to direct its people as to how to spend their own money.

    ** Huh. Your attitude certainly explains why some people felt the need to vandalize the Lincoln Memorial. He isn’t president anymore. He’s not responsible for any freedoms experienced by the descendants of slaves.

  • pzatchok

    During the American Civil war black slaves made up 25% to 40% of the Southern army. They did not fight but they filled all none combat fields. Every officer had at least one ‘man servant’ and most units had groups of slaves to do the household chores like cooking and cleaning.
    During combat they were the medics.

    And right after the war most went right back to the very same plantations they came from. Some because their families were still there but most because it was all they knew. They knew they were free but walked back into virtual slavery for the next 80 years.

    So yes one administrations legacy players can greatly influence how the next administration preforms. Especially if they do not like it.
    Obama fired ALL of the White House staff for just that fear. People who had worked in the white house for 20 years or more.

    By the way Soros and his Open Society NGO has been banned from working in 6 nations. All because of political interference. Why would he NOT be interfering in America?
    He is not just the American Rights boogeyman but the worlds.

  • wayne

    Becker and the Captain
    Twilight Zone “Deaths Head Revisited”

  • MadRocketSci

    I haven’t had to confront anyone yet doing this (I have a blissfully human-interaction-free work-from-home career from even before this madness), but I’ve reached the point where I’m not wearing mask in public except as a last resort to obtain a vital necessity. I don’t do it at the grocery store anymore.

    Noncompliance has to start somewhere. It’s not like these people are ever going to give us *permission* to return to normal. We’re still at Terror Alert Level Orange, for ****’s sake! Women are kept in burkas by the force of social conformity. I’m of the opinion that mankinds real “original sin” was obedience.

  • wayne

    Thanks for that “Victoria’s new Stalinist Legislation” clip, referenced in your 6:09pm post.

    tangentially–Sky News Australia is doing a very good job covering our presidential election.
    I suspect you would enjoy John Anderson’s Youtube channel (former deputy Prime Minister of Australia) he does some great longer-form interview’s.

  • wayne


    “Conversations with John Anderson”

  • Cotour

    And there is a similar push going on in England: Tony Heller:

    Essentially zero new virus deaths and herd immunity has apparently been achieved, but the government still has the people locked down. Where in Australia they have chosen to isolate and have no chance of herd immunity, and they wait for an effective vaccine which they will mandate that everyone takes. People with HIV are still waiting for their vaccine 30 years later. And this is a different type of virus but still, these things can take years to develop to an effective state. At what point do these country’s bail on their strategy? They are committed and it will be embarrassing if they are proven incorrect. And that apparently appears to be what is under way. And a politician must have a scape goat or an “Expert” to change direction. Its the nature of that beast.

    This smells to me. Its either a sign that these Liberal, now Leftists understand the degree of power they have and are drunk with it. Which would be a natural condition as per what we have previously discussed related to the human condition and how it relates to the nature of power. They are abusing their power in the interests of “Saving” everyone from themselves.

    You think about that for a moment or two.

    Or they are pushing full bore to push these societies further down the Globalist road and full authoritarian control. Choose one.

    (Thank you Wayne I will look at that. And yes, the Aussie media seems to cover our politics much more honestly then our own. Now you tell me what that is all about.

    And as far as Soros goes, he is well documented as being an elite intellectual with the money to back up his fantazmagoriacle Leftist / Socialist “Libertarian”(?) interpretation of what America SHOULD look like. And I say that the First Amendment is one thing, but there is a line and it seems that there have been many country’s around the world who have seen him for what he is, dangerous.

    He is much smarter than you you know and he knows whats best for you me and the rest of humanity and the planet)

  • pzatchok

    I think Soros in his youth was impressed with the German government machine and how efficient it was at doing exactly what it wanted as fast as possible.
    I think he was impressed and wants that efficiency and control back.

  • Lee Stevenson

    I have not had the time to read every comment here…. But this post filled me with sadness…. Bite the bullet and wear a mask to see the doctor Bob…and don’t dispare too much about the state of the world! The pendulum is swinging back… My Son, his girlfriend and their peer group ( all 15ish ) have nothing to do with the super PC culture, they make fun of each other without taking offence or getting “triggered”
    As I have said elsewhere here…. There is no coming dark age, we are just passing thru a difficult moment in history. We will emerge stronger and better for all that is occurring right now… The crazyness of the left right now offends even this socialist, but the decent and correct points will be assimilated into culture and humanity will continue traveling forward.
    Mankind has survived darker moments in history, and we will breeze thru this. There is no need to dispare! ( If you don’t believe me, go speak to a 15 year old!)
    And most of all…. Stay safe Bob… This pinko commie acctually cares a lot about you!

  • wayne

    The Death Of RBG
    Dave Smith – Part Of The Problem #637

  • wayne

    Ruth Bader Ginsburg–now what?
    Michael Malice: “Your Welcome” #121

  • Gary

    The simple solution is to remove the tyranny. Caving in to the tyranny only gives it permission to go further, to slide farther down the slippery slope that we are now tumbling down, head over heels. What have they been teaching in civics class, these past four decades? They used to teach us that our country is based upon liberty and to watch out for the tyranny.”

    There is no tyranny on the part of Bob’s local doctors. In society you will have the need to compromise. If a doctor asks you to wear a mask for forty-five minutes, or to obtain a Covid test or meet outdoors without a mask, nobody dies, the doctor’s staff doesn’t quit and Bob gets medical care. If a government mandates jail time and fines for those that don’t wear masks and for those that refuse to shut their business..that is tyranny.

  • Darwin Teague

    This is all so depressing. I have no medical need to avoid wearing a mask. I live in Indiana, in which the governor has had a mandatory mask mandate for a couple of months now, with no end it sight. I ignore it virtually all of the time. I wear one when I have to go to a medical appointment, but I have modified it. I cut out all of the white layers so only the thin blue layer remains. It limits my breathing very little or not at all.

    Good luck, Robert. Hopefully, this silliness will pass

  • Cotour

    Gary: BINGO!

    “If a doctor asks you to wear a mask for forty-five minutes, or to obtain a Covid test or meet outdoors without a mask, nobody dies, the doctor’s staff doesn’t quit and Bob gets medical care. If a government mandates jail time and fines for those that don’t wear masks and for those that refuse to shut their business.. that is tyranny.”

    Some are unable to make the distinction, they see it in only absolute, black or white, on or off terms. In extreme times when certain adaptations need to be made you make reasonable adaptations and live to fight another day. And you understand where the line between reason and tyranny exist.

  • Andrew M. Winter

    I almost hate to do this. It might just be adding to the misery. Gotta get it out there though.

    Growing research indicates many COVID-19 cases might not be infectious at all:

    Some Articles within “Just The News” have a nifty feature. Right near the Author’s by line and the top of the text, there are two tabs: “Article”, and “Dig In”. The “Dig In” Tab is where they link to their sources.

    It is starting to look like “government agencies” are doing everything they can to make COVID-19 look like the Black Death. Including manipulating the testing standards so that everyone appears to be infectious.

  • jwm

    I had the first post in this discussion, and I’ve been following it ever since. In some respect I think we are talking past one another. Cotour, and others say: Accept a minor inconvenience, put aside your stiff-necked objections on principle, wear the mask and get the care you need. Even I will admit that this seems quite reasonable. (And yes, I recall that Mr. Zimmerman has health issues that make masking problematic.)

    The other voices, myself included, are wildly passionate about refusing to submit.
    This old family story came to mind:
    My family was from Michigan. They often rented a lakeside cabin for summer vacations. My grandmother told about a cat who lived in the park around the cabins, one of those friendly creatures who was everyone’s, and no one’s pet. One of her sisters was holding the animal. Another visitor had caught a water snake. He decided to show the snake to the kitty to see what would happen. The terrified animal clawed the living hell out the poor woman holding the cat. Did her some serious injury.
    Now obviously this individual snake was not dangerous to the cat. The cat responded from pure instinct that recognized the snake only as “snake”: a mortal threat.

    Similarly, for many of us the reaction to masking seems wildly disproportionate to the seemingly minor inconvenience of wearing one. Just like the cat, we instinctively see this as a primal threat to our freedom, our individuality, and to our very personhood. We instinctively recognize that these mandates belong to a deadly specie.

    Those who impose these mandates are not scientists, or doctors, or experts in anything, They are politicians, who have no better access to the truth than anyone with an internet connection. How many of them read this site, Or William Briggs, or anyone else in the blogosphere? They are the the glorified editions of the snippy “Karens” who covet the power that being on the HOA grants them. They delight in the power to force you to change the color of your drapes, or punish you for a bicycle in the front yard. Now, informed by MSNBC, & CNN, et al, they have just enough information that wearing a mask seems like a good idea. How could they possibly resist compelling the unenlightened to go along. Those who won’t comply? Well, we can easily let them know who’s boss. After all, it’s for their own good, right?

    Saluting a hat on a flagpole is a tiny inconvenience, is it not? A pinch of incense is a little thing. Do we venerate those who saluted the hat, or gave their harmless pinch? They’re out there right now, masked up in the hot sun alone on the bike path. The blade of a wedge is slim and fits effortlessly into the crack.


  • Max

    If the masks were birth control, and the pregnancies went up after roll out… Why would anyone recommend/mandate/force everyone to use this birth-control?

  • JWM: Most nicely put.

    Jewish law, and lore, forbids kneeling or bowing to anyone. Even to God Jews do not kneel in their ceremonies. While I am quite secular, I abide by this maxim. I do not kneel to anyone. Putting on a mask is the equivalent to that act, especially because the science of their usefulness is so completely uncertain (leaning towards uselessness if you look at them with even the slightest intellectual honesty). As you say, they are not being imposed because of “science” but as a tool of power.

  • Cotour

    Ah, to be a cat.

    Here kitty, kitty, kitty.

    Regretfully we are not cats we are human beings and must deal rationally with the reality we are presented with and the reality that we manifest, especially in times that are unarguably considered extreme. But this too will pass, I give it about another year or so. No bowing, if I thought it bowing to authority as opposed to someone who needed medical care during extreme times I would have no hesitation in call it out.

    Gary: “If a government mandates jail time and fines for those that don’t wear masks and for those that refuse to shut their business.. that is tyranny.”

    And that story teaches to not to underestimate a little furry cutie pie they can be like buzz saws.

  • Darwin Teague

    Robert, would they let you wear a face shield instead of a mask? Would you be able to wear one of those?

  • Darwin Teague: A face shield is even more stupid than a mask, in my mind.

    I see this whole effort as mindless “feel-good” gestures whose only purpose is really to turn us into slaves. Masks have negative health issues. Face shields accomplish NOTHING at all. Think about it. They block nothing.

  • Edward

    Gary wrote: “There is no tyranny on the part of Bob’s local doctors.

    No. The tyranny is on the part of the government. The doctors are just obeying orders; otherwise Robert would be able to find a doctor that would take him without a mask.

    Submitting to a tyranny’s arbitrary rulings only results in a stronger tyranny.

    First they told us what to buy with our own money. They got away with that. Then they told us what to do: Stay at home, close your business. We let them get away with that. Now they tell us what to wear. Soon they will be telling us what to say. Then to tell us what to be.

    Are we really willing to give up all that we are and all that we have?

    This may seem like hyperbole, but in 2005 would you have believed that the nation would shut down its economy? Would you have believed that the government could coerce us to buy a certain product?

  • Cotour

    And here is where the Zman would be vindicated if it came to America, only its being talked about in Briton and is apparently now a proposed Globalist agenda tool since it has worked so well in Australia and Briton. And you can see where the Chinese lock down method of dealing with the virus may be the model here, and of course the Chinese conveniently provided the virus for the test. 6 min.

    “Lock downs for climate change” (?).

    And if there becomes a Joe Biden administration he has already spoken about how he would listen to the “Experts”. Who all just happen to work for the WHO and the Chinese? Just one more of the massing reasons to reject the Democrats in America.


  • Cotour

    Man, I like these Australian media types:

    Hydroxychloroquine $50 to $60 dollars to treat Covid? New meds to control Covid? $5000.00? You get it, right?

    And the Australian government has gone full authoritarian related to Covid and their choice to lock down and isolate themselves from the world.

  • Cotour

    They always accuse others of doing what it is they are in fact doing or in fact have done:

    B. Clinton: “You cant keep a democracy if there is one set of rules for one group and a set of rules for everybody else.”

    How True, how true. And he and attorney general Lynch were talking about their grand children while on the tarmac and not about his wife’s own set of personal rules.

    Bill looks and sounds like he will be joining R.B.G. soon enough.

  • wayne

    Sky News Australia is essentially our FOX News.

  • Edward

    Some seemingly intelligent voices don’t understand that presidents have lasting legacies, that elections have consequences (and that 2008 was the most important election of our lifetimes, the elections now are attempts to rectify the damage done by Obama), that a president like Obama can fundamentally transform America, or that we now have to work hard to recover from that transformation. Obama did not declare a mask mandate, but his actions eased the way for it.

    We are in this tyranny because the intelligent voices of this country missed these points, thinking that past presidents have no affect on America after they leave office. Apparently our intelligent voices aren’t as smart as we think they are, which explains Einstein (Germany), von Braun (also Germany), and Musk (South Africa). America’s brilliant people are immigrants, but not all smart people come here (Hawking, U.K.).

    With our own smart people being so stupid, how are we ever going to get out of this tyranny?

    Doug Messier,
    Would you have fallen for tyranny in 2005? If not, why do you fall for it today?

    You wrote: “You are blaming Obama for a mask mandate that has nothing to do with Obamacare that was implemented during Donald Trump’s presidency to address a pandemic declared 3 years after he left office?

    I am pointing out that the culture that Obama created, the tyranny that he had fundamentally transformed the U.S. into, has encouraged people like you and Irene Lawler to accept a mask mandate as necessary for healthcare, despite the experts, scientists, and the politicians themselves explaining to us that they do no good. The Supreme Court ruling on Obamacare let the government believe that it has the right to tell us how to spend our own money, tell us what to do, tell us what to wear, tell us what to say, and tell us what to be. Right now, they are telling us what to do and what to wear.

    Emotion is the reason why our fearful leaders have imposed the mask mandate, because the reason is not science, logic, or a desire to mitigate the spread of Wuhan Plague, because they know that masks don’t work — they were the first ones to tell us that they don’t work. Emotion does not make good policy, as Minneapolis recently learned:

    as the Minneapolis City Council has learned, highly emotional rhetoric does not translate into functional policy.

    Not only was it unacceptable to criticize Obama or his policies while he was in office, it remains unacceptable, as you, Doug, are pointing out now.

    Elections matter and have lasting effects. It is more than the tyranny that Obama gave us that constitute Obama’s lasting legacy. (Only Selected) Black Lives Matter and Anti First Amendment were formed under Obama’s watch due to his poor leadership, yet they linger past his administration just as does the rest of his fundamentally transformed America. Astonishingly, Obama supported and encouraged both of these violent groups and their violent movements. He refused to make us a post-racial country or to unite us and worked especially hard to divide us. By the time he left office, we were more divided with more racial strife than when he entered office. Everything that (OS)BLM and antifa do are a result of Obama’s failed presidency.

    In the same way, every tyrannical move that the United States takes is a direct result of Obama’s fundamental transformation of this country. This is Obama’s tyranny. This is still Obama’s America, land of the formerly free.

    You’re directing rage about one thing indiscriminately at another.

    What rage? Don’t project your own emotions onto me. I am disappointed that people like you, who do not see the tyranny, where it came from, and what it has led to and who make excuses for tyrants and their tyranny and blaming others for the actions of Democrats.

    Ah, how I long for the days when Democrats still favored liberty over tyranny. Although, even then they were unwilling to admit their mistakes and would even reelect immoral politicians even after killing someone, as did Ted Kennedy. These days, they cheer mayors and governors who send the ill into nursing homes to kill tens of thousands, and they are still cheered and popular.

    I have rage at that action, sending the ill into nursing homes, not at the people who supplied medical equipment and facilities to states that had failed to provide equipment for themselves.

    At some point you need to direct all that rage at Trump, Jared, Pence and the rest of the bozos who screwed up the pandemic response.

    Look at that. Telling me what to do, like the tyrants you so much admire and defend. Deflecting blame from the Democrats who did wrong, like a three-year-old trying to avoid blame for something he did. Maybe I should take your advice and direct rage toward you for accepting this tyranny, for accepting its consequences, and for blaming those who helped save lives while people like you were letting the guilty off the hook.

    These are the wrong people to blame, as they are the “bozos” who responded promptly,correctly, and effectively. It was Cuomo, de Blasio, and others who sent Wuhan Plague patients into nursing homes, killing tens of thousands. It was de Blasio, Pelosi, and others who directed people, in late February, to go into various Chinatowns, where infections were most likely to already exist. Three weeks later, those same areas were in lockdown for fear that the hospitals would be overwhelmed in those areas. Following the direction of Democrats has only made things worse.

    Trump & Co. screwed up the response to this pandemic.

    You say without example.

    However, it was Trump who did all the things that Biden is now saying he would have done but complained about at the time. Trump supplied all the resources that the country needed and did so in a timely manner, even hurrying a hospital ship back into service months before it was scheduled to be ready. Democrats complained every time Trump instituted a travel ban, but now claim that he didn’t institute them soon enough. What a laugh. He started instituting them when there was a sole positive test in this country — at the first sign that it was necessary. Obama-Biden weren’t that fast in 2009. The screwup came from Democrats who had reduced the stores of emergency medical equipment, directed healthy people into the population most likely to be infected, and actively and purposefully sent sick people into nursing homes. All the screwups occurred at state and local levels and mostly in Democrat ruled areas, but the national level was way ahead of everyone else.

    The only reason why we think this flu is a big deal is because the Democrats have been making a big deal out of it, causing fear throughout the country and intimidation to make sure we obey mandates that they admitted do not work.

    Nobody but Trump’s most fervent supporters believe otherwise.

    Apparently, you failed to remember that I am not a Trump fan, as he still rules as a liberal Democrat (despite what Robert has said), just a 2005 one, not a 2015 or 2020 one. It is the contrast of Trump with Obama’s legacy of tyranny that makes people think that Trump is not a liberal.

    How like a liberal you are: anyone who does not think as you do must be an extremist. Nobody but Trump’s most fervent haters would believe that Trump did not do good by the country and the flu victims. But to you, “It’s not part of some liberal plot to take away your freedoms.” Yet the freedoms that we had on March 1st are gone, taken away by a large number of governors who all agreed to the same useless and harmful actions.

    What part of “obey or else” do you think is part of freedom?

    The mask requirement is from medical experts.

    The experts were the first to tell us that masks don’t work while they begged us to not wear them. The experts have no authority to impose mandates. The requirement is from the politicians, who told us even as they imposed the mandates that masks do not work but were only fo r”feel good” purposes.

    Now we can’t even get non-feel-good medical attention without the feel-good masks.

    You are blaming Obama for a mask mandate that has nothing to do with Obamacare

    As I explained, Obamacare made medical care centralized, so central governments now feel free to mandate masks, even as these governments admit they do no good. What is the difference between this flu outbreak and others? Central control and tyranny. Hospitals and other medical facilities are now ruled and controlled centrally due to Obamacare. Before Obamacare, such mandates were not readily available, which is why we haven’t had them during worse flu seasons. Indeed, it was Obamacare that set the Supreme Court ruling that allows government to be tyrannical, to mandate how to spend our own money, and side effects are that government can now tell us what to do (mandated lockdowns, shutdowns), what to wear (masks), what to say (so far we have no mandates there), and what to be (again, no mandates yet). When the Supreme Court ruled in favor of mandating that we all purchase health insurance (among other things, violating the First Amendment’s free association right), I had said on BtB that the government could now direct us as to what to do. Who believed me, back then? Who doesn’t believe me now? When did we have any prior mandates directing us as to what to do? Well, we have at least three now.

    Obamacare and the Supreme Court ruling made this portion of today’s tyranny possible.

  • Bob

    Put on a mask for 15 minutes. Did you die? No.

    I have both asthma and a heart condition in addition to chronic sinus issues above and beyond that. These are the same issues you claim make it a good idea to skip seeing your doctor because somehow you got it into your head that putting a mask on for 15 minutes was a greater threat to your health than pitching a hissy fit and forgoing medical treatment despite admitting you have serious chronic health problems. A doctor isn’t obligated to endanger themselves to treat you. It doesn’t matter how much you cry about it. Nobody has ever died from wearing a mask. Many have died due to forgoing medical treatment. Man up and make your decision and quit being such a pathetic, whinny pussy about it. I don’t like the masks either, but you know what, I’m not 4 years old so rather than pitch a screaming, snottering fit about it I put the damn mask on and live with the infinitesimal inconvenience it causes me so I can continue living my life like a normal functioning adult.

    It’s not like they are asking you to shoot yourself in the nuts with a nail gun. It’s about on par with having to wear a seatbelt. Do you refuse to drive or ride inside of any automobile because of the seatbelt laws? Let me guess you think it’s a sign of rampant fascism that cooks and other food workers have to wash their hands by law before handling food served to the public.

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