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First delivery of new Starlink terminals arrives in the Ukraine

The first promised deliver by Elon Musk of new Starlink terminals arrived in the Ukraine today, only two days after promised.

Ukraine digital minister Mykhailo Fedorov, who tagged Musk in a request on Twitter on Saturday, posted that Starlink was “here” in Ukraine — with a photo showing more than two dozen boxes of the company’s user kits in the back of a truck.

Each Starlink kit includes a user terminal to connect to the satellites, a mounting tripod and a Wi-Fi router. It’s not known how many kits SpaceX is sending to support Ukraine.

Fedorov thanked Musk in his tweet; Musk responded: “you are most welcome.”

Ukraine-based Oleg Kutkov tweeted a screenshot of an internet speed test on Monday, saying “Starlink is working in Kyiv” and thanked SpaceX for the company’s support.

Two dozen Starlink terminals is only a drop in the bucket, but with a first delivery this quickly, many more are likely to follow, and make a significant difference in helping the Ukraine block Russia’s invasion.

Conscious Choice cover

From the press release: In this ground-breaking new history of early America, historian Robert Zimmerman not only exposes the lie behind The New York Times 1619 Project that falsely claims slavery is central to the history of the United States, he also provides profound lessons about the nature of human societies, lessons important for Americans today as well as for all future settlers on Mars and elsewhere in space.

 
Conscious Choice: The origins of slavery in America and why it matters today and for our future in outer space, is a riveting page-turning story that documents how slavery slowly became pervasive in the southern British colonies of North America, colonies founded by a people and culture that not only did not allow slavery but in every way were hostile to the practice.  
Conscious Choice does more however. In telling the tragic history of the Virginia colony and the rise of slavery there, Zimmerman lays out the proper path for creating healthy societies in places like the Moon and Mars.

 

“Zimmerman’s ground-breaking history provides every future generation the basic framework for establishing new societies on other worlds. We would be wise to heed what he says.” —Robert Zubrin, founder of founder of the Mars Society.

 

Available everywhere for $3.99 (before discount) at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and all ebook vendors, or direct from the ebook publisher, ebookit. And if you buy it from ebookit you don't support the big tech companies and I get a bigger cut much sooner.

123 comments

  • wayne

    Ref:
    “….make a significant difference in helping the Ukraine block Russia’s invasion.”

    I’m thinking, not-so-much.

  • Concerned

    Wayne: communication has always been important in warfare. High bandwidth comm is absolutely paramount in modern warfare.

  • Wayne, the whole world is watching … and with Starlink, it is likely very hard to pull the plug on coverage that the Russians might not want the world to see,

    That is assuming the Ukrainian users are smart enough to operate it only long enough to upload coverage, and not just leave it on so that the Russians can sniff it out easier,

  • Ray Van Dune

    Will SpaceX shut OFF access to/from Russia?

  • Alex Andrite

    Take out ….. Command … Communication … and …oh yeah get the High Ground ….

    Refresh me again Col B.

    I like the comm being out of reach.

  • pzatchok

    Starlink of not allowed inside Russia.

    Putin blocked the contracts just like the Chinese did.

  • LocalFulff

    Why to Ukraine? It is the EU that has now censored news channels like Russia Today and Sputnik News, Elon Musk should send those dishes here to the EU instead where we suffer from censorship. All telecom, electricity and water remains untouched by war events in Ukraine. Russia even continues its export of natural gas through pipelines in Ukraine as usual.

  • Jeff Wright

    Putin may loose his Nudol Starlink sniping? He’s going Andropov

  • Questioner

    LocalFluff: I agree.

    A question for the specialists: how to actively jam the Starlink up and downward links? Is that very complex?

  • wayne

    Concerned at al–

    The starlink thing’ is more PR than it is functional, and while it is important from that standpoint, I’m just not thinking this is a tipping point event, so to speak.
    (“come on man” the Ukraine military isn’t transmitting orders over the public internet, if they know what’s good for them.)
    –I’ve been looking at a variety of maps of the fiber-optic & coaxial cable networks that exist in that part of the world, and it’s quite extensive. As well, Ukraine borders Poland, so unless the Polish are blocking access, there’s at least a dozen high bandwidth connections into the Ukraine that putin would have to physically destroy.

    I’m also looking at the lights remaining on in Kiev. If Putin hasn’t destroyed the water supply & wastewater tx facilities, the rail lines, cratered runways at airports, destroyed the electric power plants, destroyed bridges, canals, tunnels, pipelines, etc. etc. etc. that tells me he was planning on a surrender, really quick.
    My opinion– if he’s not willing to burn it to the ground and kill everyone who opposes him, he doesn’t want it that badly.

  • Questioner

    Wayne:

    “I’m also looking at the lights remaining on in Kiev. If Putin hasn’t destroyed the water supply & wastewater tx facilities, the rail lines, cratered runways at airports, destroyed the electric power plants, destroyed bridges, canals, tunnels, pipelines, etc. etc. etc. that tells me he was planning on a surrender, really quick.
    My opinion– if he’s not willing to burn it to the ground and kill everyone who opposes him, he doesn’t want it that badly.”

    You’re right. “Red Pill Coach” described it in his videos. Putin’s approach is exactly the opposite of what the American empire used to do (see Iraq or elsewhere).

  • I’ll say it again: We do “empire” very badly.

    We didn’t _want_ Iraq or Afghanistan, so who cares if they’re blown up? Some (not so) genius decided on a “you broke it, you bought it” policy so we (stupidly) stayed and tried (badly) to fix things. If there is a next time, hopefully we’ll be smart enough to just bomb wherever-it-is and let the locals clean up the mess themselves.

    We don’t bomb places for the fun of it and at some point citizens are responsible for the behavior of their government. There are more of them, after all; if they don’t approve, they can always replace the leaders. I’m looking at you, Iran.

    To be clear, I’m also looking in a mirror. The US government is reaching the point of idiocy and needs to be reined in. We are, after all, financing Russia’s invasion.

  • More on-topic, the Starlink thing is definitely more propaganda than anything else. However, remember that propaganda is a _technique_ and does not have any relationship (plus or minus) with truth.

    In this case, it happens to be true: It is helpful. Is it game-changing? No. Is it a wake-up call that the Internet is out of government control? Most definitely. This probably terrifies Western governments as much as it does any (other) authoritarian state.

  • Shallow Minded Reader

    @markedup2. Yep, the eurofacists have always tightly controlled telecom and access either through state companies or through collustion/regulation. Starlink has the potential to take internet, media and wireless all out of government control. Kind of like Bitcoin is to the Western Central Banking fiat currency.

  • Questioner

    markedup2:

    The American empire is largely to blame for starting the war in Ukraine. It has tried to set up a proxy state on the historical territory of the Russian people and in the immediate vicinity of Moscow, in order to station nuclear weapons there, which can reach Moscow in a few minutes. It goes without saying that Russia and Putin would not allow this to happen.

  • Andrew_W

    Questioner:

    “The American empire is largely to blame for starting the war in Ukraine. It has tried to set up a proxy state on the historical territory of the Russian people and in the immediate vicinity of Moscow, in order to station nuclear weapons there,”

    Ukraine has to date been denied entry into NATO, NATO has not moved any nukes into the East European countries that have joined the alliance. The closest NATO nukes to Moscow are located at bases in western Germany and southern Turkey, about 2000km from Moscow, if located in Poland or Latvia they’d be only hundreds of km from Moscow.

  • Questioner

    Andrew_W:

    Sooner or later Ukraine would have become a member of NATO. Developments over the past 30 years have clearly shown that the Russians cannot trust the promises of the West. Despite all the announcements, more and more Eastern European countries were included.

    This clown, who calls himself President of Ukraine, has himself announced that nuclear weapons are to be stationed in Ukraine in the future, which of course have only have one target.

  • Andrew_W

    Ukraine has no nuclear weapons program and doesn’t get to unilaterally decide to host other countries nukes, NATO has no intention of putting nukes into Eastern Europe, and those located in Western Europe are a lot further from Moscow than they could be.
    Compare that to the thug in the Kremlin putting his nuclear forces on alert and getting an agreement to move them into Belarus.

    But sovereign states get to act as sovereign states, which means if NATO is happy to have other countries join that’s up to NATO and the invited countries. NATO is not a military threat to Russia unless Russia is the aggressor.

    The thug in the Kremlin knows this, his gripe is not that the expansion of NATO threatens Russia, but rather that that expansion blocks his own predatory ambitions, he’s made it clear that to him Ukraine is part of Russia, the Ukrainian’s disagree, I’ll stick with them in their fight to be free from the thug.

  • Questioner

    Andrew_W:

    Is this the same Andrew who has already fallen into the Covid madness?

    Here something to learn for you:

    “Why is Ukraine the West’s Fault? Featuring John Mearsheimer”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4

  • Cotour

    “Ukraine is right next to Russia, and Poland is right next to Ukraine.”

    The geography where the West meets the East is the reason that there are problems in Ukraine, the West and it existing is an aside to the previous facts.

    These groups of neighboring peoples as I understand it have been hacking each other up for the last 1000 years. Ukraine is referred to as “The Blood Lands”.

    Things that the West does or does not do has its effects, but to blatantly state that “Its the Wests fault” seems a bit one dimensional to me.

    Ukraine is more of a Democratic ideological wasteland that wants to drag itself into a more civilized “Liberal” existence. And that is the problem here. Aspirations of freedom as it is and being an existing buffer zone for Communism.

    What worse place both ideologically and geographically could Ukraine exist in? They could be Uighurs under lock and key in prisons. Which they essentially will be if all is lost..

  • sippin_bourbon

    “It has tried to set up a proxy state on the historical territory of the Russian people and in the immediate vicinity of Moscow, in order to station nuclear weapons there, which can reach Moscow in a few minutes.”

    Amazing. Everything you said in that sentence is wrong.

  • sippin_bourbon

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t4kype/hacking_group_shuts_down_the_control_center_of/

    Hackers shut down Roscosmos control center.
    Was posted 2 hours ago, at the time of this posting.

    I cannot vouch for authenticity.
    Nor can I say how long, if any, such shut down was maintained.

  • sippin_bourbon

    This is a hard picture to look at.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t45l67/respect/

    But I believe it shows the level of resolve among the people of Ukraine.

    I will not try to predict the outcome, but if Poo-tin is successful, it is going to be a very bloody.
    Nor do I think the people will consider themselves conquered. He will be looking at another Afghanistan or Chechnya guerilla fight.

  • Max

    I’m listening to Biden give his speech, he’s going after all Russians confiscating property and trade.
    Why do I get the feeling he’s talking to the unvaccinated?

    Anniversaries mean something, is this why Putin is trying to reclaim his glory days? 100 year anniversary of the beginning of the Soviet union.

    On December 30, 1922 the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics was established, which included the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic. Union treaty called for full equality of republics, but Ukraine was actually controlled by Kremlin.
    https://holodomormuseum.org.ua/en/the-history-of-the-holodomor/

  • wayne

    Wag the Dog (1997)
    “There ain’t no War but ours.”
    https://youtu.be/Rh-Samvut-E
    3:09

  • wayne

    “Did I ever tell you the definition of insanity?”
    Vaas’s speech Far Cry 3, kinetic typography
    https://youtu.be/uDoSy1WiYfU
    1:39

  • pzatchok

    Actually the only reason to launch nukes a short distance is for tactical attacks. About one megaton to 3 mega ton. This is used to stop ground attacks. Any static ground facility we can take out with conventional weapons instead.

    In real life you want a lot of flight time in order to call off the attack.

    The US has no need or desire to be on the Russian boarder. In fact its a liability. We would have to defend anything like nukes if we put them that close.
    Its not worth it.

  • Questioner

    Just as a reminder, the American empire killed about three million people in Vietnam and about a million people in Iraq in order to bring about system or government change. The occasions cited as reasons for war were fabricated in each case. Now we are again seeing bloodthirsty propaganda by the Americans. In reality, the Empire doesn’t care about the Ukrainians. The American empire would again easily sacrifice millions to have its puppet state in the immediate vicinity of Russia.

  • Questioner

    Report about the front line: War in Ukraine (28.02.22 at 22:30): “Russia used the air force “to the full” and the front of the Armed Forces of Ukraine crumbled ”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iah-ub1oNpQ

  • Questioner

    Report about the front line: : War in Ukraine (03/01/22 at 22:00): summing up the results of the battles on March 1, 2022

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz9YoJfrKAY

  • wayne

    “Do you know how many time zones there are, in the soviet union?
    Negativeland
    “Time Zones” (2012)
    https://youtu.be/QDmWYVdN8ug

  • Cotour

    YOU WANT MORE AMERICA?

    China with their eye on Taiwan and their economy let the Russians go first. The Chinese are very cautious that way, they do not like to upset the economic apple cart in such an overt manner as the brutish Russians are. Pure Sun Tzu from the “Art Of War”. Pure Strategy and moving their long-term ball forward, and no Morality.

    SUN TZU THE ART OF WAR: 2019 NEW EDITION: TZU, SUN, Giles, Lionel: 9781082510823: Amazon.com: Books

    From S.O.M. : EXPLANATION: Strategy Over Morality describes a two-tiered “conversation” between a Public and their Empowered Leadership where the Public believes there is only a single, no tiered conversation occurring, and that single conversation is assumed by the Public to relate to the Public’s morality and truth model perspective.

    China: “China says it is willing to mediate between Russia and Ukraine after saying it ‘deeply regretted’ the war in sign that Beijing’s support for Putin is wavering”

    French finance minister: “Let us be clear. We want to target the heart of the Russian system, we target Vladimir Putin, we target the oligarchs, but we also target the whole Russian economy. So we will cause the collapse of the Russian economy.”

    Putin in the long term if this Ukraine situations remains unsettled for much longer and they are seen more and more as the perpetrators of war crimes and systematically isolated from the world economy and a very, very unhappy populous and oligarch brothers he might expect one of three things.

    1. His “Retirement”? You know, the one-way Russian way. Or 2. In desperation to expedite things the use of a tactical nuke to get everyone’s attention and force a surrender? And the 3rd thing he can expect is a protracted guerilla war where he will sustain extreme Afghanistan level losses. Which will deliver him back to the first option? Is there a 4th option where Putin takes over the world and gets whatever he desires? Unlikely. How does Putin climb down and normalize and survive?

    And why is this our reality today? One reason, weak Democrat American leadership. You want more America? I didn’t think so.

    https://ecp.yusercontent.com/mail?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.demilked.com%2Fmagazine%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F04%2Fukraine-war-photos-local-photographer-anastasia-vlasova-10-640×429.jpg&t=1646231643&ymreqid=dc7face7-d905-7706-2f2c-5a0565019a00&sig=OlJTFcCVbxZMYDcACJaO4g–~D

  • Questioner

    Cotour:

    You seem a little confused, which is reflected in your opposition to Putin. Therefore I would like to help you to create clarity and have formulated a few questions:

    Do you want a global globohomo ideology? Do you want globalism and one world government? Want the gender madness? Do you want left-wing, liberal ideology? Do you want children to be able to choose their gender? Do you want men who don’t deserve the word man? Do you want a society that will eventually resemble those in the novel Brave New World?

    If you answered yes to these questions, pray for Ukraine’s victory. If you want the exact opposite, wish Russia victory!

  • Increasingly Questioner is reminding me of either Baghdad Bob or Lord Haha during World War II.

    Just a thought.

  • sippin_bourbon

    Q.

    There is no such thing as the American Empire.
    Your repeated use of this shows that you are just Poo-tin’s puppet.

    Oh and your friend Coach Red Pill. Got thrown out of his place.
    The hotel owner did not want a Poo-tin mouth piece under his roof.
    That happened after clips of his video were woven into Russian Propoganda.
    He claims he was not paid, but sure seems proud.

    Not a guy to be trusted tho. Was charge with sexual assault decades ago. Was kind of a MGTOW guy as a result.
    Made a bunch of comments about how bad American women are ( I guess because they repot him for sexual assault).
    Then he abandon his wife and kids to move to another country to find a more pliable woman.

    His pontificating online shows the knowledge and reasoning of a first or second year International Affairs/Politics student at University. It is really not complex, or nuanced, and has several gaps and leaps of logic.

    I would not put much on what he says.
    Pointing out obvious things, but dressing it up with a few basic history items does not make him an oracle.

  • Cotour

    Q:

    As insane as it sounds, I get your point.

    BUT, the desire for some degree of Democracy and the kind of freedom as is apparent in Ukraine that goes along with it is STRONG. Unfortunately their country lies in the buffer zone between the two ideologies. And that is a bad place to exist.

    And Democracy by nature is Liberal and is complex and just as perverted and corrupt as the authoritarian model, except it’s just a bit better, well much more than a bit if some degree of freedom is your metric. And people desire it as they can get it.

    Despotism and authoritarian power is simple. Putin is simple.

    What is the nature of the world at this current time in history?

    It is mired in both the complex Democrat model that delivers prosperity and a degree of freedom, I.E. Capitalism, that is now in an oil and water amalgamation mixture with the simple authoritarian model.

    And in between there is the Liberal Democrat Socialist model, Communism “light” which tends to naturally lean towards the authoritarian and is unacceptable as we can all recognize during the events of the Covid event.

    There is a middle right balance where the world works well where the evils of the authoritarian are dialed down, and the middle right can dominate and some degree of freedom via Capitalism.

    And that struggle between these two diametrically opposed power models and interests is what we are witness to. IMO.

    Ultimately the middle right Democratic model must prevail.

    See, simple.

    Putin in the long run is committed to his authoritarian non “Homoglobic” model. And the energy, the gravity the momentum of the world today does not support that position. And therein lies his fundamental problem of numbers and sentiment.

    Putin, long term will have to make some adjustments to his authoritarian agenda if he intends to continue to exist on this plane of existence. IMO.

  • Cotour

    And this is the reality and imagery that will destroy Putin in the long run.

    https://nypost.com/2022/03/02/russian-troops-kill-ukrainian-cops-partner-kids-parents-reports/

    Putin’s fate is pretty clear to me, what is his exist strategy? How does Russia go into the future and survive in the world?

    Notice, big tech is pumping out Putin’s atrocities in real time and not hiding or censoring any of it like they did with the Covid / mRNA agenda.

    The long term momentum does not favor him.

  • Andrew_W

    Mr. Zimmerman, I’ve noticed a similar character on another site ardently defending Russia, attributing all the problems around Ukraine to an aggressive hostile NATO. Given how divided and ineffective NATO has become it’s hard to believe these people are doing anything but peddling propaganda, the response to the Russian invasion has more to do with the EU and non NATO countries (including Sweden and Switzerland) than American led NATO.
    (And it was Lord Haw-Haw not Haha)

  • Max

    “The first casualty of war is the truth”

    Much of what we’re seeing on TV is old footage.
    The power plant explosion in Ukraine? A chemical fertilizer factory in China.
    An attack on the line of Russian tanks? A drone attack on tanks in Syria.
    Missiles dropping on Ukrainians? Footage from Israel Golan Heights.
    A large flyover of Ukraine by Russian fighter craft and bombers? A flyover of Moscow during a military parade celebration.
    The ghost of Ukraine shooting down Russian mig’s? No evidence found so far, footage that went viral is from a video game ARMA-3.

    I will look up the sources when I’m back from my 5 mile morning walk with my daughter and grandchild.

    Anything I can say for sure, the politicians lie lie lie lie lie lie lie. Why tell the truth when a lie can work to their advantage? Their power is smoke & mirrors, the illusion must be maintained or they lose what little credibility they have left.
    Did you notice all the Ukrainian flags during the State of the Union? We are at war with Russia, “we have always been at war with Russia” is the message.

    Half of Ukraine is mostly Russian speaking, there has been trouble with antifa (Putin rightly calls them Nazis) for years now…
    Until the pipeline on the ocean floor bypassing Ukraine to Europe is finished, Russia’s major source of wealth it’s vulnerable to the heavily armed insurgents in central Ukraine.
    (One man’s freedom fighter is another man’s terrorist)
    For all the bluster that Biden expressed last night, why has there been no sanctions against energy? Why is Russian oil the largest importer now? Is it because they refused to open wells in Pennsylvania so the “north east” is dependent on and runs off of Russian oil?

    England just reported that nine out of 10 people dying in the hospital have been vaccinated. Is this the diversion that will rally America in the coming election to divert our attention away from the real crisis?

    My wife just told me it’s my turn to push the stroller… I have to go.

  • Cotour

    “Anything I can say for sure, the politicians lie lie lie lie lie lie lie. Why tell the truth when a lie can work to their advantage? Their power is smoke & mirrors, the illusion must be maintained or they lose what little credibility they have left.”

    Strategy Over Morality, the two conversations.

    “Notice, big tech is pumping out Putin’s atrocities in real time and not hiding or censoring any of it like they did with the Covid / mRNA agenda.”

    If what you assert is so, the media is pumping, and it is against Putin and his long term interests.

  • Questioner

    Max: Thank you, your comment deserves respect!

    Cotour: The Ukrainians are winning the media war, but the Russians are winning the real war. What counts in the end, of course, the second. By this time, the Russians had already captured 25-30% of Ukraine and surrounded around 50,000 Ukrainian soldiers. They proceed with a system, they only sent their second guard and relatively old material ahead of them. The elite troop has not yet been deployed. In the same way, heavy artillery and its complete electronic warfare have not yet been used.

    Let us fight the liberals!

  • pzatchok

    Questioner

    Do you want a global globohomo ideology? Do you want globalism and one world government? Want the gender madness? Do you want left-wing, liberal ideology? Do you want children to be able to choose their gender? Do you want men who don’t deserve the word man? Do you want a society that will eventually resemble those in the novel Brave New World?

    I might not like the peoples choice but I want everyone to have the chance to make those choices.

  • pzatchok

    I am starting to think that Putin has not moved in his best forces for fear that the Western nations would invade Russia if he moves them off of his own boarders.

    I for one am more than willing to let China invade the Russian far East and cut Russia in half with one fast move.

  • pzatchok

    Finland is now debating joining NATO.

    Thanks Russia, your doing more than America could to get new members on your boarder.

  • Questioner

    pzatchok:

    On a societal level in a country you can only have one or the other. These are fundamental points where no compromises are possible. You have to make a decision. Democracy has functional limits. It can only function within a certain framework of political differences. But if society splits into two large blocs with these fundamentally irreconcilable differences, then the state, the nation and the country must also be divided.

    Incidentally, I admire the Finns for their heroic struggle against the Bolsheviks, when they invaded Finland at the end of 1939 (winter war). But that has nothing to do with today’s situation, where things have reversed. The former communist Russian state became conservative and the former conservative West became leftist or cultural Marxist.

  • Cotour

    Is this really what’s going on regarding public sentiment in Russia?

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10568223/Russian-trust-Putin-SURGED-invasion-Ukraine.html

    “Russian trust in Putin has SURGED since the invasion of Ukraine (according to state-run poll): Study claims support is up from 60% to 71% – as public are told ‘shameless lies’ about the war”

    Impressive Vlad ;)

  • sippin_bourbon

    From that same article:
    The poll was conducted by FOM, a Russian state-owned research company
    A separate poll however showed a near 50/50 split in support in major cities

    Ya gotta look past the glam headlines.

  • sippin_bourbon

    You know when Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons to Russia, it was with the promise that they would never attack or invade.

    It looks like this new Russian Empire is built on lies, just like the old USSR was.

  • wayne

    William [Lord Haw Haw] Joyce Hanged
    January 1946
    https://youtu.be/QtUcGR0Og6c
    1:34

  • Questioner

    How Different Are Russian and Ukrainian???

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQLM62r5nLI

  • Cotour

    YOUR REALITY AMERICA IN 35 SEC.

    Short and to the point:

    Kammy Harris is a woman, and is a woman of color, and if you are a Democrat that qualifies her to be the Vice President of The United States of America, second in line for the nuclear codes.

    And believe me, being a woman or a woman of color is NOT the issue. Not for one second.

    https://youtu.be/zkZqZm1ajbU ; 35 sec.

    There is not much more you can say here, this is the reality that we find ourselves confronted with in politics in America today.

    God, are you out there? I know you have a crazy and ironic sense of humor, I get it, but are there no limits even for you?

    https://ecp.yusercontent.com/mail?url=https%3A%2F%2Fth.bing.com%2Fth%2Fid%2FR.c65b2951538232c51782cb813509e179%3Frik%3DKVe17WzZv2fPxg%26riu%3Dhttp%253a%252f%252fafajournal.org%252fmedia%252f1088%252f062014idleman_outside.jpg%26ehk%3DnNTc3jW8grZbUmTHNe5IcZsDrI9hBQLC6GlA%252bSZ%252f1Mo%253d%26risl%3D%26pid%3DImgRaw%26r%3D0&t=1646316779&ymreqid=dc7face7-d905-7706-2f2c-5a0933019a00&sig=AvjFiufLEVGhQ_oT8qWGdw–~D

  • Col Beausabre

    What Happened: A tweet shared by space exploration enthusiast Katya Pavlushchenko showed a video of Rogozin, the head of Roscosmos, speaking in Russian. According to her translation, Rogozin said Musk was helping Ukraine with his “purely civilian” Starlink.

    “Here, look, he has chosen the side. I don’t even blame him personally. This is the West that we should never trust,” the tweet claimed Rogozin as saying.

    Musk responded to the post, saying Ukraine was experiencing “strange” internet outages, perhaps due to “bad weather,” and that SpaceX was helping fix the issue.

  • Questioner

    Vladimir Pozner: How the United States Created Vladimir Putin

    “On September 27, 2018, Yale’s Program in Russian, East European and Eurasian Studies, and the Poynter Fellowship for Journalism hosted Vladimir Pozner, the acclaimed Russian-American journalist and broadcaster. Pozner spoke on the impact of US foreign policy towards Russia after the Soviet Union has been disbanded, and shared his opinions on a range of issues raised by the audience, from the alleged Russian interference in the 2016 US presidential elections, to Skripal poisoning, to the state of independent media in Russia and the US.”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X7Ng75e5gQ

  • Questioner

    “Mearsheimer’s lecture, entitled “The Great Delusion”, described the rise and fall of liberal hegemony—the United States’ attempt to remake the world in America’s image— since the end of Cold War.”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZVIaXFN2lU

  • Questioner

    Cotour:

    “Ukraine Neo-Nazis Infiltrate EVERY LEVEL Of Military & Government”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfaAyiP8Wuc

    The Jimmy Dore Show:

    “Since the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the resulting cries of “We are all Ukraine,” many have been eager to downplay the proliferation of neo-Nazis in Ukrainian paramilitary groups, the Ukrainian armed forces and even parts of the government.
    As Jimmy and The Grayzone’s Max Blumenthal discuss, reports of neo-Nazis in Ukraine are not at all exaggerated, and the Zelensky government is, in fact, largely beholden to these racist, xenophobic, anti-gay groups that brag of the “fun” they get from fighting and killing.”

  • Cotour

    Q:

    That is what I have come to understand.

    BUT, Putin unleashing his dogs of war and as a result of that is bombing and destroying civilian targets and causing civilian deaths and destruction, Putin has the heavier lift here. Putin needed something that he could never have gotten, consensus of other countries that inhabit the first world / U.N. and the likes. Its all live and in color and everyone is watching.

    Putin does not have Trumps natural feel for PR and has not surrounded himself with people who will tell him no or are able to suggest a “Better” way. And that surprises me, Russians are strategists, the best chess players.

    Putin whether he is 100 percent justified in his actions regarding his country’s security and the existence of a Nazi element in Ukraine has created an inescapable trap for himself in the eyes of the more Democratic I.E. Liberal majority that essentially runs the world. Few support him.

    Russia must be able to do business and exist in the world. And Putin’s actions, justified or not have ensured that that will not be happening any time soon. What could be his end game? I do not see it right now.

    Disaster for all concerned will follow.

  • Questioner

    Cotour:

    You replied so quickly that you can’t see the full video. Which is a shame. It’s very insightful. Putin is telling the truth. A Jewish Ukrainian President is collaborating with and dependents on the Ukrainian neo-Nazis. No word from Mr. Z. on this?

  • Questioner: Unlike you, I almost never rely on podcasts or media presentations for information. Such things are remarkably inefficient methods for obtaining information, especially information related to politics or history or current events. You spend a lot of time listening to people talk, but get relatively few facts for the time spent.

    For example, three of the last four videos you recommended totaled just under three hours in length. You had time to watch or listen to these, but you have said you have no time to read books, especially thoughtful, well-documented histories detailing accurately your own country’s history in the 20th century, such as William Shirer’s “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich.”

    Based on this, I can only conclude you wish only to see sources you agree with. Books make it hard to avoid facts one doesn’t like, especially the best ones. Videos and podcasts routinely make it very easy to do so, as they are almost always focused not on thoughtful data but emotions.

    I realize I am generalizing, but these are generalizations (about the visual and audio media) that I have found to be consistently true. And part of my experience is based in working in both media, when I was in the entertainment business.

  • Cotour

    “Putin is telling the truth”.

    Maybe he is.

    To my point, at this point it no longer matters if Putin is justified or not.

    How does Putin climb down? How does Putin normalize?

    He has assured that he cannot. Not any time soon.

    And that will develop into the disaster for all.

    What will Putin do? Make an alliance with President Xi and create their own version of The Man In The High Tower version of life on earth? Now that would be a dark world.

  • Questioner

    Mr Z:

    You wrote a lot but said nothing in your comment. You have evaded my express request. Instead, throw smoke candles by just writing only about me. So please comment on the fact that the President of Ukraine works very closely with neo-Nazis!!! Should that make you uncomfortable? I hope not.

  • Questioner: I have no information to rely on your claim. And I certainly do not rely on these video broadcasts for this information.

    All we really know at this point in this fog of war is that one side in this conflict (Russia) was the aggressor. The Ukraine posed no threat to it, at all. Like Nazi Germany and Hitler, Putin decided he had the right to invade and conquer another neighboring country, for his own self-interest.

    And you of course side with the aggressor. Your roots are showing.

  • Cotour

    Want to understand the Nazi mind set?

    Want to better understand Hitler?

    Don’t really embrace sitting down with a book?

    The solution: https://youtu.be/a2C90l7YlT8 Nietzsche and the Nazis by Stephen R. C. Hicks

    (And sometimes it does not matter where you get your information from, some people do not understand or are unable to process the information and read into it what is pertinent and valuable. I know many people like this. Insight? Who has it and where does it come from? Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar :)

  • Andrew_W

    Seems unlikely to me that the Jewish gentleman would have neonazis in his government.

  • Cotour

    Again: “Seems unlikely to me that the Jewish gentleman would have neonazis in his government.”

    Its gone way, way past that and any justification on Putin’s part as far as the majority of the world is concerned is now moot.

    If Jesus himself came back to earth and stood beside Putin and verified your contention / observation about Nazi’s in Ukraine, IT WOULD NOT MATTER.

    You may or may not get this in time.

  • Andrew_W

    Why would Jesus be standing next to Putin to confirm that there aren’t neonazis in control of Ukraine’s government?

  • Cotour

    Putin is a Christian.

    Vladimir was baptized into the Orthodox Church as an infant. In an interview with Russian journalists published in 2000, Putin explained the significance of his well-known Orthodox cross pendant.

    If Putin was a Hindu, then Buddha would be standing at his side and verifying his Ukraine /Nazi assertion.

    And neither religious icon would change things regarding Putin’s war mongering or justified military actions depending on your point of view.

    How does Putin climb down and normalize? Explain it to me.

  • Andrew_W

    So Jesus would disagree with Putin because Jesus was a Jew but Putin’s a Christian, but if Buddha were up there standing beside Putin they’d be in agreement as long as a Putin was a Hindi.
    Got it.

  • Cotour

    Oh, you got it alright.

  • sippin_bourbon

    Reductio at Hitlerum.

    Someday, there will be a fallacy named after Poo-tin too.

  • wayne

    Came in late on this and only skimmed….
    Putin rose through the ranks of the KGB, he spent extensive time with the Stazi in east-germany honing his tyranny skills, then he became the mayor of a russian city and developed his grifting-skills, then he went on to totally consolidate his power.

  • sippin_bourbon

    “So please comment on the fact that the President of Ukraine works very closely with neo-Nazis!”

    Repeating propaganda and declaring it fact does not make it so.

    At this point , due to invasion, all Ukraine peoples of all ideologies are fighting Russia. If there are neo-nazis fighting back, it is because everyone is fighting back. Period .

    That is not reason enough for Ukraine to surrender, or for the rest of the world to suddenly stop supporting them.

    Poo-tin started the war. He is bombing civilians. He set fire to a nuclear power plant. He broke treaty and promises to Ukraine.

    Poo-tin will do anything to justify his invasion. After the war he will dig up the bodies of the dead children, hang swastikas on them, and declare victory if he has to. His goals are too big in his mind to let pesky dead children get in the way.

  • Questioner

    Mr. Z.:

    The only thing left for you is personal defamation. That also says a lot about you. The facts and evidence about the role of the neo-Nazis in Ukraine are irrefutably open and you don’t want to see it because your prejudice won’t allow it.

  • Questioner

    Cotour:

    “Destroyed tanks of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, abandoned positions and abandoned Javelin anti-tank systems”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VSvaoDupYI

  • Andrew_W

    “The National Corps (Ukrainian: Національний корпус, romanized: Natsionalnyi korpus), also known as the National Corps Party, and previously called the Patriots of Ukraine, is a far-right political party in Ukraine founded in 2016 and currently led by Andriy Biletsky.[3][4] The core support base of the party are veterans of the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion, which is under the command of the National Guard of Ukraine, and members of the Azov Civil Corps, a civilian non-governmental organization affiliated with the Azov Battalion.[5]

    During its campaign for the 2019 Ukrainian parliamentary election, the party formed a united radical right nationwide-party list with the Governmental Initiative of Yarosh, the Right Sector, and Svoboda.[6] This coalition won a combined 2.15% of the nationwide electoral list vote but ultimately failed to win any seat in the Verkhovna Rada.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Corps

    So yes there are neonazi’s in the Ukraine, no there are none in the Ukraine Parliament.

    Arson Avakov used to be Minister for the Interior, but was forced to resign.

    The guy claiming to be the tail of 8% of less wagging the dog looked to me to be a typical Nazi blow hard – ie full of bull pucky and blowing his own trumpet.

    Ukraine had elections in 2019 that resulted in a change of government, with the far-right influence ousted with that change in government.

    The The Azov Battalion does exist, is/was a far right neonazi organization within the Ukraine military and has been accused of war crimes, it purportedly numbers around 2500, however:

    “In September 2014, the Azov battalion was expanded from a battalion to a regiment and enrolled into the National Guard of Ukraine.[24][34] At this time, the unit worked to de-politicize itself: its far-right leadership left and founded the National Corps political party,[35] which works with its associated activist organization, Azov Civil Corps.” [wiki]

    So it looks like Putin and Questioner did have some grounds for claiming neonazi influence – but in the previous Ukraine government, not so much the new government that was elected in 2019.

  • Cotour

    Q:

    Who are you quoting here? And why are you quoting them?

  • Andrew_W

    The Jimmy Dore video features Max Blumenthal, while he strikes me as genuine, he is certain at the left side of the political spectrum, and has worked for Russian Television.

    Max Blumenthal (born December 18, 1977) is an American journalist, author and blogger who is the editor of The Grayzone website.[2][3][4] He was formerly a writer for The Nation, AlterNet,[5] The Daily Beast, Al Akhbar, and Media Matters for America,[6][7] and has contributed to Al Jazeera English, The New York Times and the Los Angeles Times.[6] He has been a writing fellow of the Nation Institute.[8] He is also regular contributor to the Sputnik and RT.[9][10]

    Blumenthal has written four books. His first, Republican Gomorrah: Inside the Movement that Shattered the Party (2009), made the Los Angeles Times and New York Times bestsellers lists.[11] He was awarded the 2014 Lannan Foundation Cultural Freedom Notable Book Award for Goliath: Life and Loathing in Greater Israel, which was published in 2013.[12][13]

  • Andrew_W

    Also from wiki, on Max Blumenthal’s Gray Zone website:
    “The Grayzone is a left-wing[2] to far-left[9] news website and blog[13] founded and edited by American journalist Max Blumenthal.[10] The website, initially founded as The Grayzone Project,[14] was affiliated with AlterNet before becoming independent in early 2018.[3] The website’s news content is generally considered to be fringe[3][15][16][17] and it is known for its sympathetic coverage of authoritarian regimes[3][11][18] and its denial of the Uyghur genocide.[22]”

  • Cotour

    “So it looks like Putin and Questioner did have some grounds for claiming neonazi influence – but in the previous Ukraine government, not so much the new government that was elected in 2019.”

    Putin appears to be using this Nazi theme as one of his justifications for making his extreme moves. The much bigger overarching reason IMO is Ukraine looking to become both a member of the EU and a member of NATO. These are the issues that drive Putin, the Nazi thing is the cherry on top that is the more emotional push button of justification.

    And all of that at this moment in time given how the rest of the world sees Putins actions is now moot.

    I ask again, how does Putin climb down? How does he normalize after he destroys an entire country and potentially kills 10’s 100’s of thousands of Ukrainians and 10’s of thousands of his own soldiers?

    Someone explain Putin’s exit to normality and again operating freely in the world to me.

    What remains to stop him out? 1. Drain his economy and cash and freeze his country out, make his people outraged at his actions that are costing them their “good” lives as they are.

    2. Supply Ukraine with offensive weapons to make it too costly to proceed with an evolving guerilla war.

    3. Force Putin to “retire” through an internal “retirement” incentive plan and or so he can sit on his 500-foot yacht with a fishing pole and cast his line in the water with no hook. And where he would sail that yacht is unknown.

    And then potential #4. Putin becomes desperate because of the severe negative economics and losses of men and military hardware and uses a nuke to get his way through worldwide extorsion?

    What is Putin’s end game Questioner?

  • Andrew_W

    “I ask again, how does Putin climb down?”
    Almost certainly what we’ll see is an eventual Russian occupation of all of Ukraine, an insurgency will continue for years until Russians finally get that their invasion wasn’t quite as popular in the Ukraine as they were led to believe.

    New things will come up, eventually Putin will declare job done or his successor will blame the mess on Putin and Russia will finally pull out.
    Isn’t that how it always goes?

  • Cotour

    AW:

    Not an unreasonable scenario.

    But how does Putin and his country go into the future and operate in the world?

    Putin and Russia will no longer support and use proxy terror states, now they are the terror state?

    Its just not a good look for Russia which is supposed to be one of the powers in the world as a country in the 21st century.

    Will there be another scenario presented as a result of today’s streaming media tech dominant world? Real time streaming is a PR nightmare for those who seek to manipulate and dominate, its a double-edged sword for sure. IMO.

  • sippin_bourbon

    “Destroyed tanks of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, abandoned positions and abandoned Javelin anti-tank systems”

    Those are not abandon javelins.
    There are scorch marks, and padding damage, indicating that the warhead was launched.

    In other words, expended launch tube. You fire the rocket, then drop the tube.

    Russia uses the same type of tank, and there are no markings that I saw. It looks like a T-80, which is used by both sides.

  • sippin_bourbon

    Russia is shutting out facebook, and many other outside new agencies.

    These are not the actions of a government that is cozy with the truth.

  • Cotour

    CONSEQUENCES: EXTREME LEFT V MIDDLE RIGHT

    (Copy and share)

    What are the real consequences of an extreme Left political and cultural agenda domination verses a middle Right domination of politics and culture in America today? (Not a middle Left, an extreme Left agenda.)

    1. Vladimir Putin’s confident determination to brutally invade Ukraine, possibly / probably in concert with the Communist Chinese and their interest in taking Taiwan and maximizing the opportune time when there is a weak extreme Left dominated political leadership agenda existing in America.

    2. A cultural agenda in America driven by fully educated and indoctrinated by the Left individuals installed in positions of leadership in politics and business administration where they can reform and extort in extreme ways what children are taught and thus fundamentally change the American culture from the ground up and the inside out.

    3. Counter intuitive to rational thinking people policies like:

    * No bail, no jail for violent criminals and allowing the dangerous, violent and mentally ill to roam without any hinderance.

    * Teaching and promoting gender fluidity and allowing trans gender men to compete in athletics with women.

    * Officially promoting racism and segregation.

    * A military more concerned with gender issues and social experimentation rather than the defense of the country.

    * An administration flooding the country with illegals through an open border while building border walls for other countries.

    These and many other things are what is called by the Left “Fundamentally changing America”. Do you agree with them?

    So, if you want to ask the question: Why is Vladimir Putin currently violently invading Ukraine? The above is exactly why Putin is currently engaging in the violent brutality that he is currently engaged in. And it is why president Xi of China will move on Taiwan.

    Weakness in the “Woke” “Politically correct” world that those of the “Righteous” extreme Left in your country are attempting to forge is a great physical, mental, security and Constitutional threat to all concerned. Are you weak or strong America?

    https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=CmSpSmKx&id=DC1F16E0EF64597023CF1A56E17CBAF499740CAE&thid=OIP.CmSpSmKxUUxXqtKFjJLXGQHaEZ&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fhasanprishtina.eu%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2f2021%2f03%2fJoe-Biden-Vladimir-Putin-dhe-Xi-Jinping.jpg&cdnurl=https%3a%2f%2fth.bing.com%2fth%2fid%2fR.0a64a94a62b1514c57aad2858c92d719%3frik%3drgx0mfS6fOFWGg%26pid%3dImgRaw%26r%3d0%26sres%3d1%26sresct%3d1%26srh%3d771%26srw%3d1300&exph=445&expw=750&q=putin%2c+xi+and+biden&simid=608036776561561167&FORM=IRPRST&ck=A0E396ADF4E3B2946A3E96D6CE0847E2&selectedIndex=22

  • sippin_bourbon

    Good analysis. We are in a weak position. Neither America nor Europe has the taste for war after Afghanistan.

    Worse, tho, in my opinion, is deliberately handicapping ourselves on energy independence. In the name of “transitioning to green” energy, we are driving up the cost of our own energy, to make green energy competitive. We are dependent on foreign powers, and they know it. Poo-tin has a leash on Washington with this, and to several capitals in Europe.

    They are actually talking about buying oil from Iran as an alternative. So clearly, the lesson has not been learned. They must be laughing their butts off in Tehran.

  • Andrew_W

    “So, if you want to ask the question: Why is Vladimir Putin currently violently invading Ukraine? The above is exactly why Putin is currently engaging in the violent brutality that he is currently engaged in. And it is why president Xi of China will move on Taiwan.”

    No, Putin has coveted Ukraine for the last 20 years or more, he thinks it belongs in Russia and always has, prior to this invasion he’s taken bites out of other countries that were formerly part of the USSR. Ukraine is a big piece to bite off, he’s spent the last 20 years rebuilding Russia’s military to the point where he thinks his country is capable of conquering Ukraine.

    His decision has nothing to do with leftists in America, his perception of the tightness of US – European relations may have been a factor, perhaps thinking they were weaker now than 5 years ago, but he has read article 5 of NATO agreement and is well aware that NATO will not get into a hot war with a nuclear power over a non-NATO country.

    Sometimes I wonder if some on the US right work on the principle that the enemy of my enemy is my friend, with the US left being the real enemy because I keep encountering people on the US right that still have nice things to say about Putin.

  • sippin_bourbon

    I think it would be more accurate to say that is why he is invading now. As in, why he chose this moment to invade.

    As for the “right” saying nice things about him, that depends. I have not actually heard praise.

    Saying some one is strong, capable, smart, etc, is not the same as saying they are good, they are right or they are justified.

    These are significant distinctions that many seen incapable it unwilling to make.

    However, I think the “left” is just as likely to declare the the US right the enemy. In fact, they have. Many times.

  • Andrew_W

    Blame Putin for his own actions.

  • Cotour

    AW:

    “No, Putin has coveted Ukraine for the last 20 years or more, he thinks it belongs in Russia and always has,”.

    No one would argue that. Putin’s only problem? What and when is the proper time to make his move?

    “His decision has nothing to do with leftists in America,”.

    Incorrect, Putin understands that this is the opportune time in history to fulfill his 20-year dream and make his strategic move. Why? Because America is embroiled in an internal political / socio-cultural struggle and is currently headed by a weak and very likely compromised individual in the form of Joe Biden who is surrounded by Leftists who are driven by the previously listed Liberal / Leftists “Fundamentally transform America” agendas.

    Will you ever get it? Will you ever understand?

    I will keep trying.

  • Cotour

    And no one is not blaming Putin for his actions. No one is making excuses for him.

    Who else would one blame for another’s actions?

    Understanding ones motivation is not making excuses for them.

    Do you not play chess AW? Why do you usually default at the upside-down and backwards way to look at life?

    You are a head scratcher.

  • Cotour

    And here we go:

    “China says it seeks to ‘resolve’ Taiwan question, amid comparisons to Ukraine”

    https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/China-says-it-seeks-to-resolve-Taiwan-question-16979419.php

    Why is this an opportune time? Anyone? AW, any suggestions? Guesses?

    Who are the beneficiaries of the “New World Order”? China and Russia, all delivered by the weak un and anti-American Leftist in America.

    You don’t believe in the “New World Oder”?

    Well *IT* does not care what you do or do not believe.

    (Some people here on BTB plainly called this out several months ago, last year even. And here we all are. it’s going to be one crazyassed ride.)

  • Andrew_W

    When was the last time NATO and Soviet/Russian forces fired on one another in “anger”? Apart from the Turkish downing of a Russian fighter a year or so back I can’t recall.

    The reason that situation has persisted for so long is due to the stability and intelligence of the leadership on both sides, direct confrontation between two nuclear blocks is not an option to people in control of themselves.

    So in a way I think you’re right, if Putin was to make his move, doing so when Trump is president wasn’t an option – but few if any US presidents over the last 70 years would have allowed NATO and Soviet/Russian military units to be firing at each other.

    The only option I see that could have stopped Putin, apart from there being an unstable nut case in the White House is if a president had whipped the 82nd airborne division into Ukraine on a goodwill visit before Putin went over the border. But I’m not sure an invitation would have been issued for such a visit by the Ukraine government, which was insisting that the Russian military exercises were only exercises and posed no threat, even castigating Western leaders for claiming otherwise.

  • James Street

    Headline from the humor / satire site The Babylon Bee:
    “Elon Musk Airdrops New Flamethrower-Equipped Cybertanks Into Ukraine”

    Elon Musk @elonmusk Replying to @TheBabylonBee
    Pshaw, how pedestrian! I was thinking more … space dragons with “lasers”
    10:23 AM · Mar 5, 2022
    https://mobile.twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1500175274343809034?

  • Cotour

    This below would NEVER, EVER ……..EVER have happened. Ukraine is the Russians buffer zone between it and NATO. If what you proposed would have been seriously talked about or tried there would have been instant warfare.

    “The only option I see that could have stopped Putin, apart from there being an unstable nut case in the White House is if a president had whipped the 82nd airborne division into Ukraine on a goodwill visit before Putin went over the border. But I’m not sure an invitation would have been issued for such a visit by the Ukraine government, which was insisting that the Russian military exercises were only exercises and posed no threat, even castigating Western leaders for claiming otherwise.”

    (Are you unfamiliar with the geography and the politics involved?)

    Putin’s entire stated justification for taking the actions he is taking is his recognition that Ukraine was getting too cozy with the EU and the natural extension to that relationship would have been for them to become a member of NATO.

    And that growing potential is what apparently set him off on this settling the issue for once and for all bloody path.

    Putin apparently is not a man of half measures.

    And again, why has his thinking allowed him to go where he has gone? A weak Liberal / Leftist American leadership and the socio-cultural internal chaos that they have fostered and promote in America. Its just that simple.

    Weakness is its own reward.

  • Andrew_W

    “Putin’s entire stated justification”

    Indeed, his “stated” justification.

    “And that growing potential is what apparently set him off on this settling the issue for once and for all bloody path.”

    Ukraine was no closer to NATO membership two weeks ago than it was 8 years ago.

    Germany has made it clear they would veto Ukraine as a member of NATO.

    “If what you proposed would have been seriously talked about or tried there would have been instant warfare.”

    Indeed, important to present a fate accompli rather than advertise such a move.

    A better idea you might like, Biden could have visited Ukraine himself without giving notice to Russia, very unlikely Russia would threaten the person of the US president by attacking the country, Biden could then have proposed a submit on the issues around Ukraine with Putin in Kyiv.

  • Cotour

    How about this, one of the “Elite” thinkers in Hollywood makes a statement:

    “Far-Left Actress Patricia Arquette Demands Russia be Kicked Out of….NATO – Then Blames Her ‘Dyslexia’ After Getting Roasted For Her Stupidity”

    Who knew Russia was already a member of NATO itself?

    https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1499960045689360384?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499960045689360384%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thegatewaypundit.com%2F2022%2F03%2Ffar-left-actress-patricia-arquette-demands-russia-kicked-nato-blames-dyslexia-getting-roasted-stupidity%2F

    To my main point, the extreme Left in America is very dangerous both in their emotional ignorance and stupidity.

  • Cotour

    If true how does Putin climb down or deescalate?

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/russia-lost-1000-troops-day-26400197

    11,000 troops dead? 285 tanks and 447 supporting vehicles and 1000 armored vehicles destroyed? 44 jets and 48 attack and troop helicopters destroyed?

    And the weather has turned against the invasion and there is rain making the ground a muddy intractable mess.

    If Putin becomes too desperate given these stats are more or less accurate, at what point might he drop a tactical nuke to shock the enemy into his reality?

    What are his options? Turn around and retreat back into Russia? That would come with the before proposed forced Putin “Retirment” plan I would think.

    Time and mass appears to be on Putin’s side, but not for long IMO. How many men can he lose and there not be an insurrection in his ranks and country?

    Can only get more interesting, and dangerous for everyone on the planet. And given our ridiculous weak, pandering and compromised “Leadership” in our country its a real possibility.

  • wayne

    Cotour–
    Those stats are all lies.

    (We lost 6,800 at Iwo Jima and that was over a month of intense non-stop fighting.)

  • Cotour

    Fair enough, “If True” and time will tell the tale.

    But, there are lots of real time evidence to verify to some degree that the Russians are not doing as well as they thought they would be doing at this point in time.

    Time and mass may favor the Russians, but it comes at a very high probably much too high a price.

    IMO Putin thought that Zelinsky would have skedaddled to Poland with his wife and kids and negotiate from there. He even said it I believe at the start. That did not happen.

    Now Putin has a bunch of angry Ukrainians wanting to kill every Russian they can get their hands on. And his conscripted army seems not too enthusiastic about their current activities.

    Putin in the long term may have effectively destroyed Russia for the foreseeable future in real terms. Putin is now a pariah, and he has no way back to the civilized world. What is his end game? It does not look good.

  • wayne

    Cotour-
    I have no idea what is actually happening, but what I know to be true, is they all LIE.

    Dave Smith and Michael Malice
    on The Red Pill (2020)
    https://youtu.be/8TBM0-OMsJE
    2:46

    “The entire meta-narrative that is constructed around you, is {expletive}, and it’s {expletive} to enslave you.”

  • Cotour

    Wayne:

    Lying or not being able to fully establish the truth is understood when we are talking about such things as the fog of war. And the same goes for the politics that are an integral part and the cause of that war for whatever reason.

    The difference now? It is much harder to lie about such things because of technology and the ability to get pictures and video out in real time through satellites and the internet. Technology is the very sharp sword that cuts both ways in 2022. How do you spin either way when you can clearly see what you see in real time? And that is one of the reasons that we see government in league with big tech / social media in attempting to just that, control it.

    That being said and agreed upon then what are we left with? The live streaming of the war where we can clearly see the destruction that the Russians are indiscriminately inflicting, and the severe damage that the Ukrainians are also clearly inflicting upon them. And the Russians from what I can discern are taking heavy casualties both in men and material. Lots and lots of blown up stuff with a big white *Z* on.

    It really surprised me, but that IMO is the difference between prosecuting an incursion like this with conscripts used as cannon fodder sacrificed by their leadership and people defending their home country and their family’s freedom to exist.

    Putin needed Zelenski to run to Poland with his family in fear and neatly negotiate and give Putin what he demanded. And that did not happen. Putin has made a grave miscalculation IMO that may in time cost him his life or his freedom. Long term may favor Putin but he will pay a very, very heavy broad-spectrum price.

    The Red and Blue pill meme? Its all S.O.M.

    From S.O.M.: “A model in which leadership or their empowered subordinates within government can subjectively justify to choose to formulate an interpretation of their core fiduciary responsibilities which becomes paramount over and above the public’s truth and morality model. Where plausible deniability can be claimed when “immoral” acts or modified “truth” strategies (lies) are employed or executed by leadership, their subordinates or by arm’s length leadership proxies.”

    “CONCLUSION: The public lives and operates under a subjective moral code or within a “Pedestrian Realm” perspective which they assume their leadership which exists within the “Political Realm” is constrained by. This is a subjective false perspective conclusion on the part of the public. Leadership at its existential core is not about morality, truth and honesty. Leadership is about the fundamental exercise of power and “its” survival.”

  • Cotour

    To my point:

    https://nypost.com/2022/03/08/russian-airstrike-kills-18-including-2-kids-in-ukraine/

    Putin has an extreme real time PR problem not to mention his logistics and moral problem.

    Putin has attacked a neighbor apparently without cause as seen by the majority of the world and he is killing babies and old ladies. That is what the people of the world are witness to. If you have not been overtly attacked and you are seen as the clear aggressor killing babies and old ladies, you have a problem

    Putin has a big problem.

    How does he normalize with the rest of the world? Not possible now.

    I will miss him.

  • Cotour

    A little bit more:

    “Morale collapses among Russia’s troops: Putin’s soldiers shot comrades who refused to open fire on civilians and so many are deserting they have been threatened with seven years in jail, POWs claim”

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10589637/Putins-soldiers-shot-refused-open-fire-civilians-deserting-POWs-claim.html

    “A captured Russian soldier has described how he was shot at and his comrade killed after fellow troops opened fire on them when they tried to protect Ukrainian civilians. In a video, the POW described how he and a lieutenant tried to save a woman in her 20s, and her mother, after Russian soldiers were given orders to fire on civilians on February 24 in Kharkiv. ”

    Speaking about the two women they helped, the soldier said: ‘The lieutenant ran over to them, began to take them out of the car, shouting “come over over here”. ‘In about 20 minutes, they noticed me and the lieutenant were saving civilians and an order was given to shoot me and the lieutenant and the civilians.

    ‘The lieutenant was killed, then they began shooting at the mother. She died with him too.”

    Russians under Putins orders killing babies and old ladies. Not a good image for soon to be ex “World leader” Vladimir Putin.

    Information? Disinformation?

    What do the real time pictures and videos tell you?

  • Cotour

    Putin in real time attempting to shape his PR:

    https://youtu.be/zdH0FhnBWwY

    Like I said, I will miss him.

  • wayne

    Cotour–
    I would put forth the proposition: this is obamas 3rd term and it’s proceeding exactly as they had envisioned.
    Fundamental Transformation, done.
    Reordering of the Economy– beta-testing has gone very well so far.
    Imposing Tyranny— holy cow, some very Evil people learned exactly how much [expletive] we would put up with the past 13 years, and it’s not pretty given our traditional heritage.

    (tangentially– I always wondered what is was really like, to live in America during the decade of the 1930’s, and we’re practically there already.

    Putin, in real time, managing the entire situation.
    ->His audience isn’t any of us.

    RT
    (Courtesy of YouTube, streams 24/7 uninterrupted)
    https://youtu.be/V0I5eglJMRI

  • Andrew_W

    Cotour, Putin only really needs to worry about his domestic audience, I think an out still exists for him if he claims that the mission was only ever about the freedom of the people in Crimea and the Donbas region, the attack on the rest of Ukraine was only ever about teaching them not to mess with the people in those regions. I think he can still declare victory and pull back to those borders, that NATO just overreacted.

    So I think he can offer peace in exchange for lifting of sanctions and recognition of independence for those regions. Is Putin flexible enough to give up on his desire to control all of Ukraine? I think perhaps he is, he’s getting plenty of warnings that the alternative is being mired in a no win war.

  • Andrew_W

    Much as China claimed victory in their invasion of Vietnam.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War

  • Cotour

    “CONSTANTA, Romania — When it comes to war, generals say that “mass matters.”

    But nearly two weeks into President Vladimir V. Putin’s invasion of Ukraine — Europe’s largest land war since 1945 — the image of a Russian military as one that other countries should fear, let alone emulate, has been shattered.”

    https://dnyuz.com/2022/03/07/as-russias-military-stumbles-its-adversaries-take-note/

    I will miss Putin.

  • sippin_bourbon

    Wayne.

    6800 at Iwo Jima is bad, but do not think that it proves 1000 a day impossible.
    Just unlikely.

    I am not saying the Mirror article is correct. It is a tabloid. Accuracy in reporting is not their strong suit.

    The Normandy landings had 4400 dead on the allied side alone.
    Another 6000 or so injured.
    That extent of that operation was measured in hours, not weeks.

    In combat a few bad days can be extraordinarily expensive.
    Look at the numbers for Market Garden (one week long, 15000 to 17000 casualties)

  • Andrew_W

    Wayne: “(We lost 6,800 at Iwo Jima and that was over a month of intense non-stop fighting.)”

    But they were facing a force of only:

    20,530–21,060 troops[2]
    23 tanks[3]
    438 artillery pieces
    33 naval guns
    69 anti-tank guns
    ~300 anti-aircraft guns

    Ukraine has many times that number of men underarms now.

    Were the US troops then better trained at surviving than Russian troops in Ukraine are now?
    I think that’s likely.

    I’d guess that Russian casualties including injured are in the low hundreds/day, Ukraine causalities at a similar level, possibly much higher if some real amateur’s are in the firing line.

  • Andrew_W

    Western estimates for fatalities in the Sino-Vietnamese war mentioned above are about 1000/day on each side.

  • Cotour

    And what exactly do the Democrat Socialists of America think the world configuration would be if America did not “control” and dominate NATO? What or where and what do these geniuses think Mr. Putin would be up to if nothing stood in his way? Is there no limit to their idealistic not connected to reality “Fundamentally change America” naivete?

    “https://dnyuz.com/2022/03/08/socialists-response-to-war-in-ukraine-has-put-some-democrats-on-edge/”

    “In New York City, Democratic congressional candidates are debating America’s role in the world. And even before D.S.A.’s most recent statement, City Council members were clashing over the history of American and NATO intervention.”

    This is a stellar example of where the Democrat Socialist party (Read the Socialist party in America) thinking, political strategy and Marxist philosophy informs the fertile and malleable half educated in human nature and politics minds on the Left:

    https://thekit.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/FEAT-8-705×849.jpg

    Soooo cute, the most famous and dangerous “Democrat Socialist” 118 lbs in America.

  • wayne

    Dave Smith and Michael Malice
    Part of the Problem ep829
    “Revisiting the White Pill” (March 7, 2022)
    https://youtu.be/qR89N8zFyxo
    4:49

  • Andrew_W

    Wayne, Ukraine should not be a US/Russia pawn, discussions about a “buffer” are just nonsense, sovereign states are not “buffers”, they’re independent countries and other countries should not take or be offered the power to control their domestic or foreign policy.

  • wayne

    Andrew_W
    I have zero dog, in this hunt.

    Two legit sincere questions–
    (speaking of pawns)
    –can you address the Ukranian coup that was engineered by the obama adm in 2014?
    –how much of current day Ukraine, is a made-up geographic country?

  • Andrew_W

    Wayne.
    The level of animosity between left and right in the US has reached absurd levels, everything that happens in the world is not a product of machinations by US politicians, the coup in Ukraine in 2014 was a popular uprising against a corrupt leader trying to take Ukraine back under Russian control – looking to get Russian support for his continued rule.

    All countries are “made up” countries, what counts is for a country to have a national identity, Ukraine has lots of national identity.

  • Cotour

    “All countries are “made up” countries, what counts is for a country to have a national identity, Ukraine has lots of national identity.”

    100% precisely accurate.

    Who draws the border lines of any country? Those with the power and motivation to draw them.

  • sippin_bourbon

    With the exception of things such as Sykes Picot, most borders were derived after disagreements settled with the use of sharp objects and things that go boom.

    An interesting read from 2014:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/henry-kissinger-to-settle-the-ukraine-crisis-start-at-the-end/2014/03/05/46dad868-a496-11e3-8466-d34c451760b9_story.html

  • wayne

    Andrew_W / Cotour–
    The CIA inspired ‘popular uprising’ of 2014, you know when obama was in charge, the first time.
    I’m looking at a map of eastern europe from pre- WW1, and there is no Ukraine.
    (and pre-emptively, one set of my great grand-parents escaped from current day Ukraine in 1885 and went to Canada.)

  • Andrew_W

    Wayne,
    Looking at a map of Europe 1900, there’s no Poland, Belarus, Finland, Czechia, Slovakia etc.
    Do you think that that was somehow the correct state of affairs in perpetuity?
    Looking further afield there was no Israel and much of the globe was under colonial rule, perhaps that was the correct state of affairs?

    In 1991 Ukraine and other Soviet republics were offered independence, in the Ukraine there was a referendum in which 92.3% of those who voted, voted in favor of independence, that independence was agreed to by Russia.
    Interestingly, and contrary to what you’d assume from current Russian propaganda, in every one of the 27 regional administrative areas. including Donetsk Oblast, Luhansk Oblast (together forming the Donbas) and Crimea, the majority were in favor of being in an independent Ukraine over remaining as part of Russia.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Ukrainian_independence_referendum#By_region

  • Andrew_W

    Sippin_bourbon,
    The perception that Ukraine is deeply divided East to West isn’t as well founded as many believe, in the 2019 elections Zelensky out-polled his opponent across virtually the entire country, with Zelensky actually polling more strongly in the East. Of course both candidates are opposed to the Russian invasion and remain in the country to bolster the defense.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Ukrainian_presidential_election#/media/File:2019_Ukrainian_presidential_election,_round_2.svg

  • sippin_bourbon

    Andrew W

    I am aware. I posted the article as it is a nice historical perspective.

    However that “east west” divide prevails, so much so that there are people pushing the notion that a divided Ukraine is a reasonable solution to this current crisis.

    Usually rushed solutions based on poor facts for the current crisis play into the evolution of the next crisis.

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