Obama administration spied on the Trump campaign
Confirmed: The Obama administration spied on the Trump campaign, using a variety of illicit methods, from monitoring phonecalls to inserting spies within the campaign.
The article outlines the entire range of abuse of power by the Obama FBI and Justice Department, but two actions stand out to me as most egregious, both outlined in this quote:
The F.B.I. investigated four unidentified Trump campaign aides in those early months, congressional investigators revealed in February. The four men were Michael T. Flynn, Paul Manafort, Carter Page and Mr. Papadopoulos, current and former officials said…
The F.B.I. obtained phone records and other documents using national security letters — a secret type of subpoena — officials said. And at least one government informant met several times with Mr. Page and Mr. Papadopoulos, current and former officials said.
First, the Obama administration went after the campaign of their opponent, based not on any reasonable suspicion of a crime but merely because they were participating in an opposition campaign.
Second, much of this spying was instigated using these national security letters, which do not require a judge’s warrant and on their face are completely unconstitutional.
Read it all. This behavior was a direct attack on our American democracy. If no one gets punished expect far worse from future administrations, from both the left and the right, all intent on maintaining their power regardless of the wishes of the American electorate.
I must add one more detail. This information comes from a badly written New York Times propaganda piece designed to support the actions of the Obama FBI. Yet, buried in that report was this quote:
A year and a half later, no public evidence has surfaced connecting Mr. Trump’s advisers to the hacking or linking Mr. Trump himself to the Russian government’s disruptive efforts.
Let that sink in. After two years of open-ended investigation using unlimited resources, these petty tyrants have yet to find any evidence of Russian collusion. The time has come to shut this kangaroo court down.
Update: This article does an excellent job of outlining the outright abuse of power by the Obama administration. As the author notes succinctly,
The scandal is that the FBI, lacking the incriminating evidence needed to justify opening a criminal investigation of the Trump campaign, decided to open a counterintelligence investigation. With the blessing of the Obama White House, they took the powers that enable our government to spy on foreign adversaries and used them to spy on Americans — Americans who just happened to be their political adversaries. [emphasis in original]
This is Watergate times infinity, and if there is anything left of our Constitutional government, it should put a lot of people from the Obama administration in jail.
On Christmas Eve 1968 three Americans became the first humans to visit another world. What they did to celebrate was unexpected and profound, and will be remembered throughout all human history. Genesis: the Story of Apollo 8, Robert Zimmerman's classic history of humanity's first journey to another world, tells that story, and it is now available as both an ebook and an audiobook, both with a foreword by Valerie Anders and a new introduction by Robert Zimmerman.
The ebook is available everywhere for $5.99 (before discount) at amazon, or direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit. If you buy it from ebookit you don't support the big tech companies and the author gets a bigger cut much sooner.
The audiobook is also available at all these vendors, and is also free with a 30-day trial membership to Audible.
"Not simply about one mission, [Genesis] is also the history of America's quest for the moon... Zimmerman has done a masterful job of tying disparate events together into a solid account of one of America's greatest human triumphs."--San Antonio Express-News
Confirmed: The Obama administration spied on the Trump campaign, using a variety of illicit methods, from monitoring phonecalls to inserting spies within the campaign.
The article outlines the entire range of abuse of power by the Obama FBI and Justice Department, but two actions stand out to me as most egregious, both outlined in this quote:
The F.B.I. investigated four unidentified Trump campaign aides in those early months, congressional investigators revealed in February. The four men were Michael T. Flynn, Paul Manafort, Carter Page and Mr. Papadopoulos, current and former officials said…
The F.B.I. obtained phone records and other documents using national security letters — a secret type of subpoena — officials said. And at least one government informant met several times with Mr. Page and Mr. Papadopoulos, current and former officials said.
First, the Obama administration went after the campaign of their opponent, based not on any reasonable suspicion of a crime but merely because they were participating in an opposition campaign.
Second, much of this spying was instigated using these national security letters, which do not require a judge’s warrant and on their face are completely unconstitutional.
Read it all. This behavior was a direct attack on our American democracy. If no one gets punished expect far worse from future administrations, from both the left and the right, all intent on maintaining their power regardless of the wishes of the American electorate.
I must add one more detail. This information comes from a badly written New York Times propaganda piece designed to support the actions of the Obama FBI. Yet, buried in that report was this quote:
A year and a half later, no public evidence has surfaced connecting Mr. Trump’s advisers to the hacking or linking Mr. Trump himself to the Russian government’s disruptive efforts.
Let that sink in. After two years of open-ended investigation using unlimited resources, these petty tyrants have yet to find any evidence of Russian collusion. The time has come to shut this kangaroo court down.
Update: This article does an excellent job of outlining the outright abuse of power by the Obama administration. As the author notes succinctly,
The scandal is that the FBI, lacking the incriminating evidence needed to justify opening a criminal investigation of the Trump campaign, decided to open a counterintelligence investigation. With the blessing of the Obama White House, they took the powers that enable our government to spy on foreign adversaries and used them to spy on Americans — Americans who just happened to be their political adversaries. [emphasis in original]
This is Watergate times infinity, and if there is anything left of our Constitutional government, it should put a lot of people from the Obama administration in jail.
On Christmas Eve 1968 three Americans became the first humans to visit another world. What they did to celebrate was unexpected and profound, and will be remembered throughout all human history. Genesis: the Story of Apollo 8, Robert Zimmerman's classic history of humanity's first journey to another world, tells that story, and it is now available as both an ebook and an audiobook, both with a foreword by Valerie Anders and a new introduction by Robert Zimmerman.
The ebook is available everywhere for $5.99 (before discount) at amazon, or direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit. If you buy it from ebookit you don't support the big tech companies and the author gets a bigger cut much sooner.
The audiobook is also available at all these vendors, and is also free with a 30-day trial membership to Audible.
"Not simply about one mission, [Genesis] is also the history of America's quest for the moon... Zimmerman has done a masterful job of tying disparate events together into a solid account of one of America's greatest human triumphs."--San Antonio Express-News
Did anyone doubt Obama was (is) that dirty – no, that evil?
From the article: “The story says the FBI was worried that if it came out they were spying on Trump campaign it would ‘only reinforce his claims that the election was being rigged against him.’”
Well, gee, how could it not reinforce that claim. While spying on Trump’s campaign, that very FBI was exonerating Clinton for crimes that any prosecutor would jump on — well, not a Clinton-friendly prosecutor. The FBI exonerated her even as it itemized the proof that she committed those crimes, exonerating her by claiming that she didn’t intend to commit those crimes, when it is obvious to all that she couldn’t have accidentally committed them. Try that defense on your own, sometime: “I didn’t intend to rob the bank; that note accidentally fell out of my hand while I was at the teller’s window.”
“Gee, officer, I didn’t intend to run the red light; I was just texting while driving.”
“I didn’t intend to be lax with top secret information, thwart the Federal Records Act, or violate subpoenas; I was just doing secret government business on my personal off-site server, which I then wiped with a cloth, or something.”
To sum it up: The Obama administration was punishing his enemy while rewarding his friend, who stood with him on issues that were important to him.
Robert wrote: “This is Watergate times infinity”
Watergate was a campaign spying on an opposition campaign. This is the Federal Government sending its vast resources to illegally influence the outcome of an election.
There was a time when we Americans were proud that our government ensured fair elections, that no one was above the law, as Watergate confirmed. This, however, confirms that our government ensures unfair elections, attacking political enemies and favoring political friends.
This isn’t just Watergate times infinity; it is corruption of the worst kind. And it has happened here in America, where we used to think it could never happen.
The general public in America hope that things like this could “never” happen, those who understand the nature of politics and specifically the Constitution KNOW that it will happen and as a matter of fact is happening but it is just hidden from public view.
We understand that corruption is the first thing that government can and will accomplish, that is a rock solid bet. This is what the Founders so correctly understood and designed the Constitution to counter balance, it is the foundation of the Constitution. Very unique in the world, specifically designed for the purpose.
So, respectfully, we understand that corruption is the first thing that government and the people who become empowered and inhabit it and push and pull the levers of power can and will accomplish. It only remains a matter of the degree of corruption that will be executed and hopefully eventually revealed.
So although America is about to go through the chaos and turmoil and political warfare that the highest order of corruption, collusion and in many ways treasonous actions by the empowered within government have ever participated in in our history, it is a good thing and it is how our system was designed to operate. It really is the only long term way.
The Founders are once again to be commended for their brilliant efforts.
(Related: The fact that our system is not “perfect” does not mean that it is to be rejected. There is a kind of logic floating around that proposes that because our system is imperfect in nature that their must be a “better” way. That is a false argument, there is no better way. Nothing concocted by man especially related to governance is ever perfect, but this is the best because it is fundamentally designed to force the corruption to be revealed to the public.
Do you know who amazingly disagrees with me? Ruth Bader Ginsberg, Supreme Court Justice of the United States, she prefers the South African Constitution.)
Laurie I like your assessment! You got your point across. Will the voter fallow suite? I am hopeful but will not hold my breath, due in part, to the MSM.
National Security Letter = Lettre de Cachet
“There is nothing new under the sun”
All of this hullabaloo is based on initial reporting from the New York Times, and they filled in more of the story today. According the them, the FBI informant was not a member of the campaign, but was instead “an American academic who teaches in Britain” who talked to two campaign advisers only after the FBI “received evidence that the pair had suspicious contacts linked to Russia during the campaign”. The informant met with George Papadopoulos in late summer and “met repeatedly in the ensuing months with the other aide, Carter Page.”
And this is supposed to be “Watergate times infinity”? Get real!
Two thirds of this country is in hysteria, one side believing that Mr. Trump is a bought-and-paid-for puppet of Putin with the other side believing that legitimate law enforcement investigations are evidence of an active political coup, and each side is feeding off the other.
Kirk: Bah. Since when was it acceptable for an administration to open an intelligence operation on the campaign of its opponent? Intelligence operations, and all the rules involved, have to do with investigating the actions of foreign agents, not political opposition parties.
You might claim that they were merely investigating possible Russian collusion in the Trump campaign, but when the Obama administration opened this intelligence operation, there existed no evidence of collusion. None. That is why they did not open a criminal investigation and ask a judge for warrants. They instead used national security letters which were designed to only be used on foreign agents and operations, not American citizens.
Now, after two years of open-ended investigation and unlimited funds, Mueller’s investigation has still found no evidence of collusion by the Trump administration. None. Zip. Nada.
That’s because it doesn’t exist. This is a witchhunt, and it is designed by the Democrats and their ilk from both parties in Washington to shut down Trump, an outsider who threatens their power, any way they can.
You want to make excuses for this abuse of power, go ahead. I already expect most Americans to do the same. However, what will you say when the next president (or even Trump himself) escalates the abuse? They will you know. Will you scream and cry because our democracy is gone? By then it will be too late.
By the way, we actually do have evidence of real Russian collusion, and it wasn’t by anyone in the Trump campaign. While the Obama administration was misusing the intelligence service to unmask Trump operations to obtain information about them, the Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, gave the Russians control of one quarter of our uranium resources, while getting enormous cash donations, including a half million dollars, from the Russians for their Clinton Foundation.
Why is no one investigating this?
These (Not Fox News) 13 minutes will more clearly lay out for you the complexity of the emerging evidence in how the leadership of 6 U.S government law enforcement and intelligence agencies conspired and endeavored to set up the D.J. Trump presidential organization to either cripple or impeach it if Trump happened to win the presidency. Your looking for collusion with the Russians? You do not have to look too far.
https://youtu.be/s5iXN2SmyGY ; 13 min.
Why was Preet Bharara, U.S. Attorney for NY, immediately fired by Trump? For creating at the direction of Loretta Lynch a special passport allowance for a banned from the U.S. Russian spy to enter the country specifically to meet with Trump jr. to begin the “legal” justification for secret surveillance by U.S. intelligence agencies of a presidential campaign in the interests of their preferred presidential candidate. Think about that for a moment.
And everything from Comeys counter intuitive decisions and actions related to Hillary and her illegal email server, to Brennans actions, to Clapper’s actions, and on and on it goes, the list is long. All with the express purpose to ensure Hillary Clinton winning the 2016 presidential race to manufacturing intelligence against Trump using well positioned Russian and other spy’s and operatives to take him out if she did not win.
Watergate will appear more like a little girls tea party in comparison. What we are all about to witness is exactly what the Constitution was designed to reveal, corruption and criminal activities within government against the peoples interests and freedom.
“Anything in the pursuit of the acquisition of or the retention of power, and I mean anything”
MAGA
Cotour, how could that possibly make any sense? Mr. Bharara was fired on 11 March 2017, but Mr. Trump claimed to have not even known of the June 2016 Trump Tower meeting with Ms. Veselnitskaya until after the New York Times reported it on 8 July 2017.
I assume that those on either extreme view those in what I think of as the “sane center” as being hopelessly naive, uninformed sheeple, but from the center, both sides appear as if they are arguing for something as improbable as a Flat Earth or the Moon Landing hoax. Seeing each side feed off the outrageous, paranoid theories of the other is like watching the original Star Trek episode “Day of the Dove”. I half expect to see the hate consuming entity glowing red up in a corner.
Kirk: Do you honestly believe that a reasonable fear of government officials abusing their power is “being hopelessly naive [and an] uninformed sheeple”? Do you also really believe that this fear is of something as “improbable as a Flat Earth or the Moon Landing hoax”?
You actually believe that? Then you almost must assign this description to every single one of the Founding Fathers, as well as almost every writer of political analysis and history, beginning with Aristotle and Pluto. You would also explain to Jews why they are “hopelessly naive [and are] uninformed sheeples.” Please explain this to me. Please explain to me why I should not fear those with power who routine express outright hatred of those they dislike or disagree with.
Moreover, instead of addressing the specific points I noted, which are facts, you have now stooped to denigrating and insulting those with whom you disagree. I would have expected better from you.
Bob: No, I said I expect that those who are on the extremes view _those like me_ who don’t buy into their arguments “as being hopelessly naive, uninformed sheeple”.
A healthy skepticism of government is well called for, but a convoluted theory of how the Obama-Clinton cabal set up the June 2016 Trump Tower meeting with Ms. Veselnitskaya in order to entrap members of the Trump campaign — despite nothing of significance apparently actually happening in that meeting — and then the president firing the US Attorney for the Southern District of New York as punishment for helping set up the entrapment some three months before the president ever learned of the meeting sounds to me reminiscent of Moon Landing Hoax conspiracy arguments.
I am not trying to split hairs here, but there is a difference between saying “you are crazy” and “that sounds crazy”. It is the latter I am asserting, and it is intended to convey more about how I react to what I am hearing than to cast any aspersions on those making what sound to me like crazy claims.
Kirk: Your original comment was attacking the premise of my post. Yet, you have never addressed the facts in my post, nor my responses. Instead, you are focused here on Cotour’s unfortunate habit of descending into implausibles, something I did not do.
You claimed that the Obama administration’s spying on the Trump campaign was a “legitimate law enforcement investigation.” Maybe initially this could be argued. Maybe it was necessary in the beginning to make sure the Russians had not infiltrated the campaign.
That justification disappeared a long time ago. As even the Times was forced to admit, after two years of open-ended investigations, no evidence of collusion has been found. Yet, the Obama administration escalated their spying, using unverified and since discredited campaign research paid for by the Clinton campaign to justify it. And they did so by lying to the FISA court about the nature of that research.
In that escalation they also twisted intelligence procedures that are designed to protect the privacy of American citizens in order to unmask Trump campaign officials and thus obtain transcripts of their conversations.
None of this is fantasy or paranoia on my part. All of it are verified facts. When I also consider that the Obama administration has also been shown to have weaponized the IRS to harass conservatives, solely for political reasons, I think it very reasonable to take this apparent abuse of power seriously.
Kirk:
What has been and will further be revealed through evidence will be indisputable, it will be evidence. Then there will be interpretation by each side, “But why was it done?”. And the interpretation of that intent is what I believe you are speaking of related to whether it was all out conspiratorial treason and sedition on one side for one candidate and against not their choice, or some degree of caution and due diligence in the best interests of the American people on the part of our law and intelligence agency heads who had only the most pure and patriotic motives in the minds and hearts. (Now really, what do you really think the more likely answer is?)
I tend to see these players in the law enforcement and intelligence agencies as having done much more of the first than the second. Why? Because it is the nature of the political beast to do so and by the way, that is what the Constitution was written to counter balance, and not by accident.
You write that “Trump said he knew after the NYT’s reported it”. If I were to take a wild guess I would still assume that Bharara was fired for his part in the intelligence set up by granting a banned Russian entry into the U.S. that I described against Trump and his son and their organization. (Let that sink in for a moment, a U.S. attorney made special arrangements to allow a banned Russian in to set up the Trump team)
And I would assume that you are implying that you believe everything that the NYT’s, CNN, the FBI, the DOJ, the NSA, the CIA and what any politician says? Now we are talking about being naive, they are all lying for the most part. (Leadership is not about telling so much the truth but about manifesting your vision and agenda)
The question will remain, what evidence has been collected and will be revealed about any one of these actors about their ACTIONS related to the many, many corrupt and potentially treasonous and seditious things that have been and will be revealed.
If you have read any of what I have written on the subject of politics and abuse of power, and it is fairly extensive, you know where I see all of this going. On a scale of 1 to 10 I see this playing out against the deep state in a 7 or 8. (A 10 is just too much to hope for because we are talking about politics and accommodations will have to be made lest someone threaten to reveal negative evidence on subjects like the banned subject on BTB or the JFK assassination)
What would the proof be that the “Deep state” players were working out of a sense of patriotism and fairness? When they reveal that they also had a mole inside of the Hillary campaign and also created an evidence trail to also set her up as they had set up Trump, and Hillary by far has more connection with the Russians than Trump. And that will never be revealed because I am certain it does not exist.
Could you imagine being the agency head who set that plan off even though you understood that Hillary would more than likely be the next president? That would never happen because of the potential real world threat that would exist if she had been elected president and found out about it. I do not even know where you might hide.
IT IS COMING AND IT IS LONG OVER DUE.
“Why was Preet Bharara, U.S. Attorney for NY, immediately fired by Trump? ”
Because traditionally, when taking office for a new president, the new Attorney General asks all US Attorneys to resign. They did this when Clinton came in office and when Obama came in office, but W. Bush did not follow this tradition. Some resignations are not accepted (or are immediately followed by rehiring).
Bharara was the only U.S. Attorney who publicly took issue with this.
Many people like to say “there’s no such thing as coincidence in politics,” but I disagree. Sometimes unrelated things just happen at close timings, and this was one of them.
Bharara was on board with Trump if you remember:
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/30/nyregion/preet-bharara-says-he-will-stay-on-as-us-attorney-under-trump.html
“Mr. Bharara said that he had already talked to Senator Jeff Sessions, Republican of Alabama, who is Mr. Trump’s choice for attorney general. “He also asked that I stay on, and so I expect that I will be continuing,” Mr. Bharara said.”
Then Bharara was fired on March 11th because he would not quit. Then the meeting. How did the banned Russian get into the country? Loretta Lynch, Bharara’s boss, that means that Bharara had knowledge of the allowance. So he has got to go.
https://www.independentsentinel.com/loretta-lynch-allowed-russian-lawyer-allowed-u-s-parole-loretta-lynch-allowed-stay/
In the end you will find that many of my “Implausibles” will be 100 percent on target.
There is one aspect in the timeline of the firing that I’ve never heard explained. Mr. Bharara says that on 10 March 2017 President Trump attempted to contact him directly, but he refused to take the call and reported it to his superiors in the Justice Department, saying that such direct contact between the president and a sitting US Attorney was inappropriate, that he was concerned that the president was attempting to foster an inappropriate relationship with him, and that if the president had anything to say to him he should do so through proper channels. Later that same day Attorney General Sessions requested the resignation of all Obama administration era US Attorneys, and when Mr. Bharara did not comply, he was fired the following day.
What I’ve never heard explained is what relation the phone call might have had with the firing. A) Were they coincidental and totally unrelated?, B) Did President Trump order him fired for not taking the phone call and the Attorney General decided the easiest way to do it was to call for the resignation of all the holdover US Attorneys?, or C) Was the call intended to break the news personally, to say “Thanks for all you’ve done, Preet, and I know I asked you to stay on, but I’ve decided to make a clean sweep and we have to let you go.”? (Of course we have learned that, outside of his television show, Mr. Trump hates to fire anyone in person, but prefers to either make their life miserable until they quit or, when that doesn’t work, to have someone else deliver the news of their termination. Still, he may have intended to make an exception in this case.)
Bob, it is true that I did not address your entire post but instead the specific phrase “inserting spies within the campaign”. (As that is what I am hearing the loudest elsewhere.) Is that supposed to refer the this “American academic who teaches in Britain” who at the behest of the FBI met with George Papadopoulos and Carter Page? That doesn’t seem to qualify as a spy within the campaign. Are there other accusations?
Also, you mentioned the weaponization of the IRS. Do you know if there is currently an active investigation into that?
Yeah, Trump wanted to tell Preet “Thank you”, sent his wife some flowers, then fired him. Wanted to make it as painless as possible for him.
Are you understanding that Lynch and Bharara by extension, because he had to know all about it, brought a Russian spy into America on a special visa who was banned from the U.S. to set his people up for the FBI and whom ever else to justify and begin an intelligence investigation.
I think its more likely in the real world as the Trump administration began to put together the treachery that was underway by his own NY U.S. Attorney that he was allowing to stay in his position and the previous Attorney general it was understood that all involved had to go. This is not rocket science.
Contour, I really would be best sticking to the rocket science, as that (and sunspots, etc.) is what brings me to this site.
I don’t buy your theory, but I keep an open mind and hopefully more of the truth will be revealed in time. Waiting is.
The informant has now been revealed as Cambridge professor Stefan Halper. I’d give this a few days to shake out, and then we’ll see just how warranted the accusation of “infiltrating a campaign for the benefit of another campaign” is.
Fair enough.
I just want to point out to you that when I say these political players, on both sides, will or can do anything to acquire or retain political power, I mean anything. Most in America who are watching this all play out exist well outside of this kind of treachery and power play strategies.
Read Sun Tzu, read Shakespeare, read Macciavelli, the things that people will do in the quest for power and control is unlimited and although these things may not be a part of a rocket scientists world believe me Sun Tzu, Shakespeare and Macciavelli knew exactly what they were talking about.
In the end there will or should be indictments, there will be trials, there will be convictions, there will be jail sentences, there will be plea deals and there will be cooperating witnesses and there will be political compromises that will be “In the interests of the country”. Which means that at some point the political realm will have to have their Warren Commission.
And it will be good, the best thing for our country because things have just gone too far and this process is proscribed by the Founders as the remedy.
Okay.
I am going to go there. There being to ask the question; what are you going to do about it?
Seriously! If the warning in this article is more that hyperbole, then WHEN nothing happens to former president Obama, Hillary Clinton, James Comey, and that entire HOST of Deep State “@$$whipes” never face criminal prosecution, then we can assume the Constitution, which is The People’s Law, is being flouted.
That being the case what will you do about that?
Will you enforce The Constitution as our law?
In that enforcement effort are you will to invoke deadly force to bring the lawbreakers to justice?
Will YOU personally do the job that uniformed law enforcement is demonstrating that they simply will NOT do?
Will YOU load your magazines with ammunition and lock and load to enforce The Constitution you say is at risk?
What will YOU do about the demise of constitutional governance in These United States?
Or
Will you just whine about it in some blog hoping for some, more or less, suicidal, driven, obsessed Patriot to come along and do your dirty work for you. You being the collective YOU that wrote this article and are commenting on it.
Frankly, yes, these deep state animals need to face justice. But, justice in this case can NOT come from the very government that is committing the crime. And, YES it is the entirety of government that is institutional at fault here. Not just the few mere individuals that were revealed when this particular rock was overturned. Look at how deep into the very rank and file of government workers this bad behavior goes!
The only “justice” that CAN ever be done will have to be DONE by the much touted “We The People”. The legal umbrella will have to be Posse Comitatus, and, ( and this is the truly ugly, nasty, disturbing, horrifying reality ) the actions of the Posse Comitatus, with posse meaning armed to the teeth, will be indistinguishable from an outright lynching.
So if, you, all of you, are not contemplating, even preparing, for the extreme measures that can ONLY be done by “We The People” to bring our errant government into line, then all of you are simply behaving like self indulgent, whining children. When you are ready to do justice, sing out, that’s when you will get my attention. Until then it’s all just a childish whine.
Words MUST be backed by the ability to act, or they are empty.
Kirk, I post for you a response to a friend who also has doubts about my prognostications, I include it here. The question I asked him was to explain all of the many firings and “resignations” within the FBI and DOJ, how and why does that happen? (My friend is a lawyer and has dealt with the FBI and the DOJ, he says they are ruthless and underhanded to say the least)
———–
Hitler also thought he was one of the “good” guys.
Those who’s jobs were politicized in the FBI and the DOJ by their leadership will be / have been testifying to such, these are the people who have and were allowed to “resign”. Not being charged was their reward for testifying.
I think by this coming Friday this question about who did what and who among government employees is a political player and who has been leveraged like an unwilling concentration camp guard to do what they should never do within the FBI and the DOJ when the I.G. Horowitz report is released. Then will come the U.S. Attorney Huber prosecutions, essentially a special prosecutor without the BS with the full force of Attorney General Sessions behind him. And the advance leaking of this I.G. report indicates that there are criminal referrals included which given your experience with FBI and DOJ should please you.
The leadership of the FBI and the DOJ were partisan and did things to ensure the election of Hillary and when that did not happen had Trump already set up for a fall or impeachment based in crafted by them “intelligence”, plain and simple. And that is a big no, no as you well know. There is a line and they went well over it.
Reality and some level of justice will come in time and even you will recognize it, and it will be good.
Andrew is 100% correct. The answer here must come from a lot of voters, a lot. And sadly the trend, though generally correct, has not been large enough to make enough of a difference.
Too many Americans have bought into the fascist fantasy. Too many others simply don’t pay attention. Too many others are too quick to make excuses for the corruption in Washington. We, as well as the rest of the world (including idyllic New Zealand) are in big trouble.
Andrew:
We are a long, long way from what you suggest, these wheels turn slowly, but they are turning even though it may not be perceptible or apparent at the moment.
IT APPROACHES
Thats Andrew, not Andrew W.
This Andrew is an American, Andrew W is a Communist from New Zealand.
Obama’s memoires will be titled: “From the White House to the jailhouse.” He didn’t know how to lose with grace. I wonder what he has to tell on the water board.
Robert, aren’t things going in the right direction in the US now? Media is crazy but they are losing relevance fast. The economy is booming. Foreign policy is changing. Crime fighting is being improved, right? I don’t know why Trump hasn’t handled these ridiculous legal problems better. Maybe he’s timing it for the mid-term elections.
WSJ (and now WaPo) is reporting that DOJ has taken up the president’s call and is tasking their IG to “assess whether political motivation tainted the FBI investigation into ties between Russia and Trump’s campaign.” Good.
Andrew_W is largely correct. (I’d quibble with the posse comitatus remark, but essentially correct in all aspects. It’s not what “somebody else should do,” it’s “what should YOU do about it.”)
LocalFluff– I’d quibble with you as to the “economy is booming.” We still have 90 million people who aren’t in the labor force, interest-rates have been artificially suppressed for the longest time in history, and the Debt & Deficit are still exploding out of control. (10% GDP growth would not fix this, ever, in a million years.)
The Left will not relent under any circumstance. They intend to invalidate the election, and they won’t stop until they do, or there is another election, and if they don’t win, they will attempt to invalidate that Election.
an amusing pivot….
“Lunchbucket”
Dr. Jordan Peterson/Akira the Don
https://youtu.be/n3uYYAdothI
(2:32
Zman:
I totally disagree with your agreement with Andrew, the trend is trending in favor of Trump and his growing agenda and accomplishments. As time passes Trump will be seen as being treated unfairly by the media and the deep state and the general public does not like that.
This is a repeat of when Trump first began to run for president and the general consensus here on BTB was “Ted Cruz” is the man. And while Cruz may have been the better pure political choice, Trump is certainly the better everyday mans choice and people connected to him for that reason and will continue to.
So once again IMO you are more in a default negative position on your interpretation of what is actually going on related to the zeitgeist of America. It is understandable but the blue way that you are anticipating due to the unique set of circumstances that exist in America today will not IMO be happening.
As the Democrat party continues to push not to the center Left they push hard to the extreme Left the American people will reject them because although they promote the giving away of a lot of “free stuff” the American people are not fundamentally Socialist or Leftist and they will perceive Trump as being treated unfairly.
http://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/388564-juan-williams-trump-gives-life-to-the-left
Add to this the imminent release of I.G. Horowitz’s report which might happen later this week which I am certain will reveal some very negative actions, some even criminal, by the Trump hating Deep state members of the FBI and DOJ leadership.
The trend does not favor the Democrats.
Cotour: I honestly pray every day that you are right here and I am wrong. My negativity comes from repeatedly reading comments and posts as well as talking with ordinary people, from the non-political as well as loyal Democrats and even very educated people, and finding that too many simply will not come to grips with the corruption of that party. They either make excuses, or cannot believe that corruption really exists. We saw this on BtB only this past week.
We have seen several elections go to Democrats in the past six months that should have been Republican wins. Though the trend is rightward, it isn’t trending fast enough.
Horowitz’s report to soon be released addresses the Clinton email scandal. No anticipated release date has been announced for his report on the Russia investigation. I’m sure the Clinton report will show negative actions by Trump-hating members of the deep state, but will focus more on Clinton love than on Trump hate.
There are other signs that The Big Ugly is about to commence, however.
I really do understand your apprehension, believe me I encounter it every day. The inability of committed Liberals and Democrats to even semi objectively see the political landscape amazes me. But there is a middle segment of the American population that can be swayed one way or the other based in some form of logic and I believe that that process is underway and it will in the end sympathize with the Trump / MAGA position.
I have an ongoing back and forth with my lawyer friend and a couple of others who are just blinded by their positions no matter what actual evidence is presented and he / they will not budge. They are sooo committed to their position “Trump is only doing this for the money and he in league with Putin directly and he must be arrested, no, will be arrested”.
Last night I had dinner with friends and I asked my friends wife if she heard this new controversial recording where some people hear the word “Laural” and other people hear the word “Yani”. I have listened to it and clearly and most unambiguously the word that I hear is “Laural”. My friends wife (D), she just as clearly hears the word “Yani”. (?)
https://youtu.be/LDfoD-rgSzU What do you hear?
I find this fascinating and wonder 1. Are these developed experimental pieces being tested on the public, and 2. If this political situation in America is in some ways similar, no matter what, Trump bad. Thats all they can hear or see. And 3. I also wonder where these auditory and visual anomalies come from and if they are well understood and how these differences in the human brain might be leveraged into some form of manipulation by players in the political and other fields that would like to be able to push those buttons to their advantage.
I still hear “Laural” and Laural to me means that the so called blue wave will not be occurring this election cycle for the many reasons that I have given.
To my point:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/05/28/will-the-fervor-for-impeachment-start-a-democratic-civil-war
Toobin himself a died in the wool Liberal partisan sees the irrational descension in the Democrat party related their extreme desire to impeach Trump.. If you watch him but heads with Dershowitz you understand that Toobin does not agree with his professor who is a self confessed civil liberties Liberal Democrat legal knight who himself sees this on going contrived political set up and action for what it is.
Listen to Clapper and Brennan speak on the issue. From their point of view the people have not the first say but who will lead them the people need to be shepherded and lead to a “Proper” decision as to who should and will lead them. They have it all flipped around because they have come to see their position as superior to the peoples. And that is just wrong think and the people of America see it.
There are consequences to elections, the Democrat only recognize that as a fact if there is a Democrat in the White House. Otherwise you must be impeached and removed no matter what!.
Some more stupid from the Left:
http://dailycaller.com/2018/05/21/professor-trump-animals-track-to-genocide/
The American people are absorbing these attempts at super / superior logic that in reality is suicidal stupid think, and for the most part they reject it.
Although I did have a wacky Liberal in the form of an older lady sit in front of me the other day and describe in detail how she was religiously “Inspired” by Lawrence Odonnel on his take on Trump’s MS13 / animal comment.
She swallows it hook line and sinker, logic and rational thought have no place in her world.
I heard the recording with several people in the room, with no hint of what We were supposed to hear. At first listen (with lots of background noise), several people heard “Gary.” When I listened closely, I heard “Yerro.”
An audiologist on the radio said that the key is the low quality; the sounds are not distinct (in a sense, “not all there”), so the brain fills in the extra info. She wanted to know what people would hear if there were no hints of what they are supposed to hear (I wanted to call in to tell her, but was driving).
So yes, not that very different from how many people’s political views work.
Indicator:
https://youtu.be/JsIiTWpqh6k
Andrew asked: “what are you going to do about it?”
There is plenty that we can do about it just in the political realm. We can support the Convention of States ( https://conventionofstates.com/ ) in several ways, we can make it so that it is politically profitable for people to do the right things ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEVI3bmN8TI — 1 minute), and we can contact our representatives to express our distress at this rapidly degrading situation.
Andrew may not know what to do about it, but he shouldn’t project his ignorance upon the rest of us. He should not suggest that we get violent when violence is not necessary (yet); that is what the left does.
Andrew wrote: “But, justice in this case can NOT come from the very government that is committing the crime.”
Actually, yes it can. Andrew presumes that the government cannot be fixed, that once it becomes corrupted it cannot be corrected to be less tyrannical.
When Trump was running for election, we were assured by some here on BtB that he would do the right things, because it was politically profitable for him to do so.
The disappointment is that Trump chose to not pursue justice when it came to Clinton, Lerner, and others who corrupted the government. With them getting a free pass, there is no incentive for other deep state operators to fear that law and order will come back as the American Way (as Superman used to stand for, before the movie “Superman Returns”). What we are learning is that the FBI (and the IRS, DoJ, and others) no longer cares about truth, justice, or the American Way.
Welcome to Obama’s America, land of the formerly free.
For the impatient and politically narrow minded, Trump can not as a practical matter let loose the dogs of political retribution using the FBI and the DOJ and on upon the heads of his opponents. It would be political suicide (That is assuming that those law enforcement heads would comply, which they probably would not). Then the argument that Trump was a Fascist would better fit. Better that the public see Trump in a sympathetic way for the wrongs that they clearly see have been done to him then seeing him as a tyrant. Think.
The executive branch although it oversees and appoints the leadership of the FBI and the DOJ can not be seen to use the law as a political weapon. The law must be applied through lawful means on those who have done wrong and worse and that path has been legally initiated.
We are moving in the correct general direction and the up coming I.G. Horowitz report should further the cause of Truth, Justice and The American way. Everybody, stay calm and understand that this is going to get much crazier before it gets any more reasonable and just.
Relevant and interesting questions from 2017:
https://youtu.be/_L2erXWiEKI
These are the questions that should now legally be asked and answered revealing the true nature of the forces within the government from the top down that appear to have politically acted against Trump and for Hillary. Thats a big no,no.
ITS COMING.
And it should be revealed that Obama and his operatives are in it up to their eyeballs.
https://youtu.be/YVaucIx1MhM
Can you be impeached after your serving as president? I think so.
And lets all keep in mind that this Awan who had access to 1 in every 5 Congress persons case has not even been dug into much and it on its own is another death blow to the Democrat party leadership.
http://dailycaller.com/2018/05/21/awan-witness-threatened-surveilled/
Wasserman may well go to jail just for this which is a major breach of Congressional security.
Another indicator: Mak Penn, a true blue Clintonite writes a devastating article about the Mueller investigation and what is to come.
http://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/388549-stopping-robert-mueller-to-protect-us-all
CLOSER AND CLOSER IT APPROACHES.
Now we are getting down to legal justification for taking action based in reasonable assumptions and not political vengeance.
https://youtu.be/R3ixjCdyVAc
Long term this will turn out to be Trumps game.
Over a year ago Chuck Schumer essentially publicly threatens or “reminds” Trump of the power of the CIA and the other intelligence agencies who Trump has upset because he had the nerve to confront them about their apparent activities against him and his presidential campaign.
https://youtu.be/XCtIdpBocNA ; (Sorry, but this clip has both Chuck Schumer, an uber Liberal and Rachel Maddow, an uber Leftist talking head in it. I know its very disturbing to hear both together when just hearing one is bad enough)
And now what do we see over a year later? Apparently the FBI and “others” had implanted into the Trump campaign spy’s in order to create some kind of intelligence “evidence” to justify a FISA warrant. In the end this will involve the previous president and this entire operation was to spy on Trump and to ensure the Hillary Clinton presidency or take Trump out if everything went wrong and were not to happen. Plain and simple.
Schumer and Maddow want to sell the idea that these individuals who inhabit these agencies are apparently above all supervision and oversight, they are above everyone because they “know” things about all of us. And that is just a bit too cynical for me, and apparently Trump to.
And Trump is the only person in America with the stones and unique skill set and is now the president to do what must be done.
MAGA