Pennsylvania: zero or little evidence open gyms or restaurants spread COVID-19
Chicken Little report: Pennsylvania health officials in one county admitted today that they have found zero evidence that open gyms spread COVID-19, while with restaurants the only evidence of spread is among restaurant workers, not patrons.
[T]wo local government leaders confirm contract tracing shows these businesses had low incidence of spreading the virus. “We were not able to find transmission in gyms, and we had almost no transmission in restaurants,” Montgomery County Chairwoman Dr. Valerie Arkoosh said at a Wednesday press conference.
There is some incompleteness in the contract tracing, but all the tracing they have done has consistently found no justification for closing gyms or restaurants. This data also confirms other data from other states.
But facts don’t matter to Pennsylvania’s Democratic Party governor, Tom Wolf and his cross-dressing health secretary, “Rachel” Levine, a guy who makes believe he is a woman.
Last week, Wolf and Department of Health Secretary Dr. Rachel Levine issued new rules saying restaurants could no longer continue with in-person dining or alcohol sales, and “indoor operations at gyms and fitness facilities are prohibited.”
Those rules are set to expire on January 4, but that still amounts to three-and-a-half weeks of what the restaurant industry is calling a de facto shutdown. Restaurants are able to continue with take out and delivery services.
What difference the lock down will destroy lives and ruin businesses? The important thing is to demonstrate the power and majesty of these government officials.
On Christmas Eve 1968 three Americans became the first humans to visit another world. What they did to celebrate was unexpected and profound, and will be remembered throughout all human history. Genesis: the Story of Apollo 8, Robert Zimmerman's classic history of humanity's first journey to another world, tells that story, and it is now available as both an ebook and an audiobook, both with a foreword by Valerie Anders and a new introduction by Robert Zimmerman.
The ebook is available everywhere for $5.99 (before discount) at amazon, or direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit. If you buy it from ebookit you don't support the big tech companies and the author gets a bigger cut much sooner.
The audiobook is also available at all these vendors, and is also free with a 30-day trial membership to Audible.
"Not simply about one mission, [Genesis] is also the history of America's quest for the moon... Zimmerman has done a masterful job of tying disparate events together into a solid account of one of America's greatest human triumphs."--San Antonio Express-News
Chicken Little report: Pennsylvania health officials in one county admitted today that they have found zero evidence that open gyms spread COVID-19, while with restaurants the only evidence of spread is among restaurant workers, not patrons.
[T]wo local government leaders confirm contract tracing shows these businesses had low incidence of spreading the virus. “We were not able to find transmission in gyms, and we had almost no transmission in restaurants,” Montgomery County Chairwoman Dr. Valerie Arkoosh said at a Wednesday press conference.
There is some incompleteness in the contract tracing, but all the tracing they have done has consistently found no justification for closing gyms or restaurants. This data also confirms other data from other states.
But facts don’t matter to Pennsylvania’s Democratic Party governor, Tom Wolf and his cross-dressing health secretary, “Rachel” Levine, a guy who makes believe he is a woman.
Last week, Wolf and Department of Health Secretary Dr. Rachel Levine issued new rules saying restaurants could no longer continue with in-person dining or alcohol sales, and “indoor operations at gyms and fitness facilities are prohibited.”
Those rules are set to expire on January 4, but that still amounts to three-and-a-half weeks of what the restaurant industry is calling a de facto shutdown. Restaurants are able to continue with take out and delivery services.
What difference the lock down will destroy lives and ruin businesses? The important thing is to demonstrate the power and majesty of these government officials.
On Christmas Eve 1968 three Americans became the first humans to visit another world. What they did to celebrate was unexpected and profound, and will be remembered throughout all human history. Genesis: the Story of Apollo 8, Robert Zimmerman's classic history of humanity's first journey to another world, tells that story, and it is now available as both an ebook and an audiobook, both with a foreword by Valerie Anders and a new introduction by Robert Zimmerman.
The ebook is available everywhere for $5.99 (before discount) at amazon, or direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit. If you buy it from ebookit you don't support the big tech companies and the author gets a bigger cut much sooner.
The audiobook is also available at all these vendors, and is also free with a 30-day trial membership to Audible.
"Not simply about one mission, [Genesis] is also the history of America's quest for the moon... Zimmerman has done a masterful job of tying disparate events together into a solid account of one of America's greatest human triumphs."--San Antonio Express-News
When are people going to start asking those who want the lockdowns, what will be good enough for them? What will they consider a success? If 99.9 percent of the people are fine — and the arithmetic says so — why aren’t they celebrating such vast success and resilience of American people?
Instead, they do as they have been conditioned over the decades by the media they choose to consume: they buy into fear and get angry at those who refuse to drink their fear. Marketing at its most successful: “Creating a need and filling it,” as the prescient brilliant comedians of Firesign Theater recognized three decades ago.
The arithmetic is right in the world’s face: as of this moment, after one year of being “ravaged” by this “pandemic,” less than one tenth of one percent of America’s population has succumbed, while more than 99.9 percent have survived.
‘Are they going to give their college degrees back because they got an A on a test that was only 99% correct on answers? When clearly they believe that anything less than 100 percent lack of “cases” is cause for big worry and panic?
If a farmer destroyed his whole crop because less than one tenth of one percent was damaged, he would be extraordinarily stupid for ignoring the arithmetic. If a commercial fisherman on the deep seas decided to ignore arithmetic and fill his boat with too many pounds of fish, he would probably be dead. If an airplane pilot decides to ignore arithmetic and believe instead some doctor or politician in analyzing his charts or instrument readings, he would be dead.
Ignoring arithmetic can be fatal.
This insanity of believing politicians and doctors who peddle fear over reassuring certainty of arithmetic, is temporary, that’s one good thing.
The claim that a highly contagious respiratory disease doesn’t spread between people eating, socializing and exercising in close proximity at venues like gyms and restaurants is . . . irrational.
Apparently an example of how some interpret facts and information and come to their conclusions about what they should mean, and the reality of the situation based on real world developed research and results of that research.
How does one reconcile the developed and recognized facts of the matter and their expectations?
Choose the Reality, OR the “Reality”.
Objective V Subjective.
Science V Voodoo
Common sense V Wishful thinking
Andrew_W:
Andrew:
You asked me recently what constitutes left political ideology. If I only used one word for it, it would be: equality.
In contrast to this, the political right – also expressed in one term – is about: hierarchy.
Additional Note: Another small trait that can characterize a left person is that he/she loves endless discussions about the meanings of words rather than dealing with reality.
The claim that a highly contagious respiratory disease doesn’t spread between people eating, socializing and exercising in close proximity at venues like gyms and restaurants is . . . irrational.
The claim that a 99.9 percent rate of people who remain either healed or untouched, isn’t success is …. irrational.
Where did I or anyone who thinks the C19 over-reaction is a real threat to sanity and liberty, claim that ” a highly contagious respiratory disease doesn’t spread between people eating, socializing and exercising in close proximity at venues like gyms and restaurants”? That is an imaginary charge leveled by someone who wants to impose their beliefs and fear on me while ignoring known and proven tools such as arithmetic.
I do know, as opposed to claim, that people who make bad behavioral choices in food and fitness, are much more likely to become ill from such a disease than others, but I know as well that a really nasty flu can get even the best in health, but the better the health the more likely that they kick it within a week. As is happening with C19.
Folks who with such credulity the claims of doctors who are politicized in the face of plain arithmetic that literally proves the lie, have zero place telling others how to be rational.
“You asked me recently what constitutes left political ideology”
No, I was asking you what definition of leftist you were using that would include me.
“Another small trait that can characterize a left person is that he/she loves endless discussions about the meanings of words rather than dealing with reality.”
Many people like to use words inaccurately as it enables them to cast aspersions and twist the truth to fit a narrative that, were they to use words correctly, would be shown as a deception.
“Where did I or anyone who thinks the C19 over-reaction is a real threat to sanity and liberty, claim that ” a highly contagious respiratory disease doesn’t spread between people eating, socializing and exercising in close proximity at venues like gyms and restaurants”?”
Ahh:
“Pennsylvania health officials in one county admitted today that they have found zero evidence that open gyms spread COVID-19, while with restaurants the only evidence of spread is among restaurant workers, not patrons.”
Cotour:
We are not alone! Nick Fuentes is also fighting for Trump and against election fraud.
https://twitter.com/YungZoomer/status/1337885960730779654
Oy, not Nick Fuentes again.
Does he still live in his mothers basement?
Look at this young man. At least he’s doing something in the real world.
Cotour, it is good that you are taking a solid stand against electoral fraud here, but that is not very much compared to Mr. Fuentes, who ventures out into the real world and can gather a lot of young men (all Trump supporters). Take an example. (By the way, maybe you have more in common with him than you think. Wouldn’t you be proud if you had a son like that?)
Mr. Fuente was the subject of a discussion some time before on BTB.
As I remember he was a bit too Right wing for me and bordered on a radical or extremist.
(Are we all existing in an alternate universe and are not really participating in the real world?)
Janyuary asked;
“When are people going to start asking those who want the lockdowns, what will be good enough for them? What will they consider a success?”
I believe that depends upon the objective…
I accidentally come across the authorization for how long the crisis will last, that the population will be under the health departments mandate for the minimum length of the emergency.
Section XII. Effective Time Period
The Secretary amends Section XII to provide that liability protections for all Covered Countermeasures administered and used in accordance with the public health and medical response of the Authority Having Jurisdiction, as identified in Section VII(b) of this Declaration, begins with a “Declaration of Emergency,” as defined in Section VII (except that, with respect to qualified persons who order or administer a routine childhood vaccination that ACIP recommends to persons ages three through 18 according to ACIP’s standard immunization schedule, PREP Act coverage began on August 24, 2020), and lasts through (a) the final day the Declaration of Emergency is in effect, or (b) October 1, 2024, whichever occurs first. This change is to conform the text of the Declaration to the Third Amendment.
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/12/09/2020-26977/fourth-amendment-to-the-declaration-under-the-public-readiness-and-emergency-preparedness-act-for
Isn’t that sweet, they’ve been telling us that it’s temporary just until the “emergency is over” when The authorization has already been exercised for a full four years. By then they would cement their power and cannot be overthrown.
With the continued suspension of the constitution, their power will be total. We must regain our sovereignty before the transfer of force or will never see freedom again.
I was reading what I could about those who have had reactions to the new untested (by definition) M-RNA modifying human immune system shot.
I found out it has a chemical in it similar to antifreeze;
“Those concerns include the vaccine maker’s exclusion of people with severe allergies from the clinical trials, and the failure to pre-screen patients for polyethylene glycol (PEG), the compound suspected of triggering the reactions, before administering the vaccine.
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/alaska-healthcare-workers-allergic-reactions-pfizer-covid-vaccine/
In the article they have a link to the newly strengthened release of all liability that the drug manufacturers insisted on. It gives them the ability to do “anything” they wish in the name of saving “The world”. They cannot be held liable for any deaths, cancers, mutations… it is actually more open then the rules James Bond operates under where he has “a license to kill” in the name of the queen and country. They can do anything they wish without fear of consequences. We’re talking about people like Bill Gates here, not good.
Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness Act;
The Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness Act (PREP Act) authorizes the Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services (Secretary) to issue a PREP Act declaration. The declaration provides immunity from liability (except for willful misconduct) for claims:
of loss caused, arising out of, relating to, or resulting from administration or use of countermeasures to diseases, threats and conditions
determined by the Secretary to constitute a present, or credible risk of a future public health emergency
to entities and individuals involved in the development, manufacture, testing, distribution, administration, and use of such countermeasures
A PREP Act declaration is specifically for the purpose of providing immunity from liability, and is different from, and not dependent on, other emergency declarations.
https://www.phe.gov/Preparedness/legal/prepact/Pages/default.aspx
This violates the Nuremberg treaty, The Geneva convention where it applies to civilians, as well as numerous other agreements not to mention the safety and wellness (General welfare) clause of the Constitution. Recourse of grievances comes to mind as well…
Max, bingo: “We must regain our sovereignty before the transfer of force or will never see freedom again.”
How do we regain that sovereignty? That’s the question, and the answer I think we agree is a painful one, a dreadful one. As it happens, we are all sharing a historical moment in time together, we’ve reached that point. It’s clearly past the ballot box (to me, anyway, who watched almost a decade ago the outright theft of propositions and elections in California with my jaw dropped as people just went along, conditioned ruthlessly to question their own eyes before they question the news).
Seeing as how, for example, California is a little bigger than Germany and a little smaller than France square-mile wise, and seeing as how it, like many parts of Europe, had developed a unique culture and retains a whole lot of very valuable resources and sublime climate, I can see states becoming independent nations to keep out invaders who are not from there (lefties like Pelosi, Feinstein, Boxer, etc. etc. were born and raised on the other side of America). We have our own unique identity, I am a Californian, and we are different than folks from elsewhere. Our families here in California, a sibling of Mexico, is an interracial one that now includes Asians, black folks, every color; they came here for the climate and opportunity, mostly. Until commercial air travel, it required huge commitment and even risk to settle in California. Californians were required to be more gutsy and persistent than most just to get here.
After 160 to 200 years of roots in our unique place, we have our own culture based on the kinds of folks who raised us, and our weather, take it or leave it. In California, for example, “barbecue” means pretty much anything, marinated or not, plant grain or animal, cooked over an open fire, preferably old oak bark. There’s no sugar involved, no sticky sauce, zip. There’s beans, bread salad, and salsa that if you’re smart you’ll put right on the meat, yum YUM. You’re never expected to send a “thank you” note for a real barbecue in California, but folks sure appreciate it if when you come, you bring a bottle of something to drink or maybe something special to snack on or listen to.
Oh well … too much time on my hands. Staying home, don’t have the heart to mingle six feet from insane people with their mugs covered by ugly masks. Seeing little kids in masks really makes me get ticked off so I just stay home.
Disregard whether it is a gym, restaurant, school – whatever. Just remember the 3Cs:
Closed spaces
Crowded places
Close-contact settings
Avoid these areas if possible, and use mitigation measures like masking/distancing/disinfect if you do. Simple
janyuary,
You asked: “When are people going to start asking those who want the lockdowns, what will be good enough for them? What will they consider a success?”
Many people have already given us the conditions for success and the end of lockdowns, shutdowns, smackdowns, and the Great Oppression. A big problem is that as we approach those conditions, we are given a new set of conditions that takes more time to satisfy. First we would be in lockdown until early April, but then the goal stopped being to lower the curve but to slow the spread. A new goalpost, and a new, though unarticulated condition for success. The end of May would be the end of lockdowns, but only if we wore masks that did not exist as of then.
Soon we were told that the goal was to save lives, even one life would do, but that was contingent on a vaccine being developed. So we waited until the vaccine. When it was developed, there were delays in its approval, and we were told that we had to wait until an unspecified large percentage of the American population was vaccinated before we could leave lockdown, and that would take many, many months. There are early signs that as we approach that goal that we will have to wait until everyone is vaccinated under mandatory vaccination requirements before we are free to travel outside our front doors for anything other than food gathering or emergencies.
There is still no sign that that one life will ever be saved so that we can end this insanity.
You responded to:”The claim that a highly contagious respiratory disease doesn’t spread between people eating, socializing and exercising in close proximity at venues like gyms and restaurants is . . . irrational.”
“Irrational” is the wrong word. It is counterintuitive. The science and contact tracing shows that the counterintuitive, or “irrational,” case is in fact the case.
Once again, the science is ignored or rejected by those who are too emotional to accept the results. Not just our fearful leaders, but too much of the population at large.
Questioner wrote: “In contrast to this, the political right – also expressed in one term – is about: hierarchy.”
I would use the word: merit.
Max wrote: “I found out it has a chemical in it similar to antifreeze;”
Be careful when comparing similar chemicals. Small differences in the molecule can have profound differences in its effects. We humans use O2 to metabolize food and produce the similar chemical (just add a carbon) CO2, which poisons us. Plants, however, use CO2 to make food and produce O2 as a byproduct. CO, which is similar to CO2, is even more poisonous to humans and is useless to plants.
Jeff Fauva,
Do you have actual scientific data for that statement, or is that just emotion and intuition? While we are in lockdown, we spend a large portion of our time in closed spaces, and being enclosed with family means we are subject to long periods of close-contact settings.
If large crowds are taboo, then why do our fearful leaders not protest the large, crowded protests that they keep supporting?
Edward:
We can perhaps agree on the following shortest possible characteristic of the political right: “hierarchy by merit or natural order”.
“Hierarchy” — Queue Wayne and Jordan Peterson clip on Hierarchy
Jordan Peterson/ Akira the Don
“Lunch-bucket”
2018
https://youtu.be/n3uYYAdothI
2:32
….on Hierarchy:
Jordan Peterson / Akira the Dom
“Stand Up Straight, with Your Shoulders Back”
2018
https://youtu.be/dX0mcPfuCUQ
4:32
“…the idea of the hierarchy is at least 350 million years old, and so I read that and I think, well so much for the idea that human hierarchy’s are a social construct, it’s like–no that’s wrong. It’s not just a little bit wrong, it’s unbelievably wrong, it’s mind-bogglingly wrong….”
Edward:
The 3C’s is a good framework to think about risk during covid. I does not mean avoid them at all costs. If an area meets one or more of these criteria, one should consider other factors:
– Do I know these people and their potential exposure?
– How long will I be in this space?
– Will I be in more than one of these spaces over a short period of time?
The severity of covid can depend on the viral load one is exposed to, which can be cumulative/multiple exposures.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7293836/
Edward wrote that Max wrote;
“Max wrote: “I found out it has a chemical in it similar to antifreeze;””
What you wrote as an explanation of slight chemical arrangement making large differences is exactly right. Human waste product that can poison us CO2 is plant food, plant waste product that is poisonous to plants is oxygen O2. The perfect symbiotic relationship.
Here’s what I read, which was the source of my comment.
“Polyethylene glycol (PEG) is a petroleum-derivative compound that is made from ethylene glycol (ethane-1,2-diol), the main ingredient in antifreeze. PEG can be found in a number of other products, including skin creams and personal lubricants, and as a food additive for anti-foaming purposes. Additionally, PEG is the active ingredient in a number of medications prescribed for treating constipation. (MiraLAX) In the case of an effervescent electrolyte product, it is used as a lubricating agent.”
It works as a preventative of water absorption. This is what’s being injected into your bloodstream.
Toxicity is low but 72% of people tested show antibodies which could lead to allergic reactions. Are you one of the 72% of Americans?
“PEG is considered biologically inert and safe by the FDA. However, a growing body of evidence shows the existence of a detectable level of anti-PEG antibodies in approximately 72% of the population, never treated with PEGylated drugs, based on plasma samples from 1990–1999.[34] The FDA has been asked to investigate the possible effects of PEG in laxatives for children. A large and growing number of parents have reported serious or life threatening side effects after their children were given one or more doses of PEG as an osmotic laxative.[35] Miralax has not been tested on children. PEG is not recommended to those under 18”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyethylene_glycol
Interesting list of uses including rocket fuel in the Trident 2 missile. The list was just updated with the relevant information about the new untested vaccinations.
The relevant data is more fascinating, it’s used to match their new RNA with your old RNA… (With the new crisper technology, anyone can do it. You can even buy a kit for modifying RNA/DNA for home use for less than $1000.)
“PEG is used to fuse two different types of cells, most often B-cells and myelomas in order to create hybridomas. César Milstein and Georges J. F. Köhler originated this technique, which they used for antibody production, winning a Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine in 1984.[4]”
And;
“In microbiology, PEG precipitation is used to concentrate viruses. PEG is also used to induce complete fusion (mixing of both inner and outer leaflets) in liposomes reconstituted in vitro.
Gene therapy vectors (such as viruses) can be PEG-coated to shield them from inactivation by the immune system and to de-target them from organs where they may build up and have a toxic effect.[20] The size of the PEG polymer has been shown to be important, with larger polymers achieving the best immune protection.
PEG is a component of stable nucleic acid lipid particles (SNALPs) used to package siRNA for use in vivo.[21][22]
In blood banking, PEG is used as a potentiator to enhance detection of antigens and antibodies”
It’s all about genetic manipulation. In 20 years they’ll have a test to see how much of you is still human…
Andrew_W and Edward:
Another important difference between left and right political ideology is the philosophical basis of the ideologies. The basis of left political philosophy is philosophical materialism or physicalism, i.e. the assumption that the world is only matter and that there is no spirit/mind/consciousness as own class of existence. Therefore, in the view of the left, consciousness is only an illusion (note: as a critic of this assumption, which in my opinion is completely wrong, one asks oneself in what or where this illusion exists). Leftists deny not only the existence of a higher being, such as God, for example, but the existence of a metaphysical reality in general.
Right winger don’t always, but mostly, assume exactly the opposite. They see behind the phenomena of matter non-physical (i.e. metaphysical), for example mental forces that ultimately produce this world. This can be the Christian God or another higher being (like Schopenhauer’s will). In my opinion, the very existence of consciousness, which in the end is the only thing that can really be certain of its existence, proves that Marxist materialism is false. The consciousness is the basic reality, which produces material world.
Top 10 Materialist Fallacies (Dr. Dr. Bernardo Kastrup)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m7BxlWlvzc
Questioner.
The libertarian right is economically and socially liberal (using the traditional/historical definition of “liberal”).
The conservative right is economically liberal but socially authoritarian.
The mainstream left is economically authoritarian and socially liberal, certainly to promote egalitarian ideals.
*Authoritarian meaning imposition of state force (laws) to create uniformity.
Some people like to try to attach lots of other traits to the political ideologies in attempts to emphasis the differences, usually to exaggerate the gap between them, silly sort of “they’re the evil Godless heathens” type of thing, such things are just methods to demonize the members of the other tribe, to push the good vs evil narrative that humans are so fond of.
Some people label issues as left or right to promote them as a cause for their end of the political spectrum, when they’re not technically left or right issues.
Jeff Fauva,
You wrote: “The severity of covid can depend on the viral load one is exposed to, which can be cumulative/multiple exposures.”
What I hear you say is that your answer is ‘just emotion and intuition’ rather than actual scientific data.
My point is that the stratagems our fearful leaders have employed have proved to be colossal failures, resulting in more damage than they have saved us from. The actual scientific data reported in Robert’s link shows that 74% of the spread is occurring in locked down homes, which is counterintuitive, and 1.4% of the spread occurs in restaurants. Your statement says that this should not be so, bringing us to the question as to how you are so terribly wrong.
My answer is that you depend upon emotional solutions and not solutions that have been shown to work.
What was your point about the 3Cs?
Questioner,
That difference requires more that a single word, but it is a good and important difference.
For those on the right, generally the greater power than ourselves, the one that gives us our rights, including the rights to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, is God or nature. For those on the left, government replaces God or nature in just about every way. Government did not create the world, but it would usurp credit if it could.
It may seem like a minor difference in philosophy, but it has profound differences in the way we think and act.
For the case in which government grants us our rights, that means that someone gave those rights to government in order to distribute them. It also means that these rights may be taken away at the whim of government. Thus, those who exercise their rights have to be careful not to anger the grantor, and that limits what we are willing to do, such as keep our shops open when government is oppressing us.
For the case in which the creator bestowed us our rights, God or nature, those rights cannot be taken away by man or manmade government. They belong to us, not the government, making us free to try new things differently than government would do them (e.g. reusable first stages or going to Mars before government does). Government is here to serve, not to be served. In this case, shopkeepers find ways to remain open despite a declared pandemic. We the People are creative. Government is not.
We can find our own solutions, tailored to our own problems. Government imposes one-size-fits-all solutions, or it chooses those who will win and those who will lose. The latter is the case for this pandemic that government has declared. Some businesses may remain open and prosper, others must remain shuttered and wither or die.
In the case of Obamacare, the one-size-fits-all solution was imposed, and we can see from this declared pandemic that this solution is a complete failure. Obamacare was supposed to save each of us from having to lose our home or businesse in case an individual contracted an expensive illness, but victims of the government reaction to Wuhan are losing their homes and businesses despite the illness not being expensive and despite never contracting the illness themselves.
Despite all the sacrifices that we have suffered for nine months (we are now getting Wuhan flu babies — babies who gestated all during The Great Oppression), millions still contracted the illness and the death toll is once again on the rise. Unlike all other flus, we had a measured second wave of deaths in summer. In summer. We would have been better off without the government reaction. Government is worse than useless.
Government is the devil in disguise.
Edwards:
Yes, the political left – the currently ruling left ideology is cultural Marxism – not only idolizes the state (there are right-wing worshipers, by the way), but also people. Over the centuries society has been successfully stabilized by the following natural hierarchy: 1. God, 2. Man, 3. Woman, 4. Child.
Your position seems to me to be a mixture of conservatism and classical liberalism. But you are absolutely right that the state must serve the nation or the people. It’s just meant to be a tool for organizing a nation. However, it not only rules over people, but also behaves – as experienced in the Corona crisis – like your nanny.
I only have to deviate from it on one point. The so-called pandemic does not exist at all. They are more or less a sham result of PCR tests that are not suitable for the detection of infections, the mostly false positive results of which produce sham infections and pseudo-ill patients that do not even exist. And if you analyze the true death rate carried out by the world’s most famous and most cited scientist (Stanford) in the field, it turns out that Covid-19 is no more deadly than moderate flu (averaging about 0.2% above the whole world).
The pandemic theater reminds me of the movie “The Truman Show”. Politicians created it artificially and pursue certain goals.
Andrew_W:
The political world is not only bipolar, it resembles a triangle.
Here is the schematic that shows this to you.
https://www.reddit.com/r/badpolitics/comments/357a25/have_some_new_shape_the_political_triangle_chart/
Here is another version of the triangle.
https://i.redd.it/a14tp1fwbbq01.png
For those on the left, government replaces God or nature in just about every way.
No, the left sees government as the provider and authority as children see their parents, not as a God or as a force like nature.
Government is the devil in disguise.
And the Devil is evil therefore government is evil?
No, the problem with government is that it’s a monopoly, like a monopoly it’s prone to laziness, providing poor service and waste, in a democracy we at least get to vote on who’s on the board every few years, but that’s no substitute for the pressure to perform that the competitive market provides. We don’t need to get all religious and see good and evil in the existence of government.
Questioner,
You wrote: “I only have to deviate from it on one point. The so-called pandemic does not exist at all.”
This is why I call it a declared pandemic.
The pandemic theater reminds me of the movie “The Truman Show”. Politicians created it artificially and pursue certain goals.
Funny you should mention that movie. I just finished watching it again, and I, for one, am feeling as though we all are trapped in a phony world that someone created just for us. The question is how to escape, because there are many people keeping us in here. Even the police are on the side of the tyrannical oppressors rather than the side of securing the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity our Constitution was created.
Questioner, thanks for the links to the political triangle, I usually see these ideological things in terms of the political compass, the triangle presents a slightly different perspective, noticeably all the modern democratic leaders are in close proximity, which I think is a nice change from spreading them over the whole chart. I think it does put the political differences within modern democracies into perspective.
https://www.politicalcompass.org/test
Edward: “For the case in which the creator bestowed us our rights, God or nature, those rights cannot be taken away by man or manmade government.” BRAVO
You’re nailing it … pretty much the whole post. We can either live with the free choice that God or our Creator or whatever It is that gave us free choice … or we can let MEN who want to be BULLIES scare us into letting them make our choices for us.
Government is a force. We limit it and use it wisely … against bullies if need be. I think they should be charged with manslaughter at least for the folks who are dying from cold (dining and waiting outdoors), loneliness, and frustration due to measures to prevent an illness that has taken less than one tenth of one percent of Americans, and whose countermeasures has stomped and mangled countless dreams, businesses, lives, future, broken millions of hearts, and ground them into dust.
Accessories to economic and societal homicide — say it loud and say it proud, lockdown supporters, because that is how you will be celebrated when this is done.
Edward:
“What I hear you say is that your answer is ‘just emotion and intuition’ rather than actual scientific data.”
Linking to the actual scientific data, again. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7293836/
Edward: you have hit on something I’ve considered for a while: the perpetration of academic protocols to the real world. I would say it started in the 1960’s, as many people avoided the draft by enrolling in school, and so became educated beyond their ability or intelligence. I noticed the effects of this in the 1980’s when many jobs that once required a high school diploma (if that), now required 4-year degrees. Because the market was saturated.
Academia is attractive to Progressives because it offers a relatively unchanging environment, unlike the messy Real World. We have now had generations of academics that believe, through Progressive power, that their naval-gazing is a Real Thing, and is relevant to practical reality . It is demonstrably not.
We are living in a Progressive fantasy that has little or nothing to do with reality. Want to escape? Stop voting Democrat. It’s the First Rule of Holes.
Make people uncomfortable. Yes, no one likes to do this, but as they say, you have to break some eggs. When someone proselytizes the Party line, call them out. Be polite, but you are under no obligation to be *nice* to people who are looking to control you. “That attitude isn’t helping.” “Not looking to help you.” The Socratic Method works well. Ask questions.
Oppression by fiat is here. Time to wake up and smell the corruption.
Blair: “Want to escape? Stop voting Democrat. It’s the First Rule of Holes.”
Really, you think so? When is it going to start working?
I did it your way for 36 years before I finally snubbed a Republican on a ballot.
Remember Einstein’s definition of insanity.
Progress is the only way we can go — forward. You have already lost one major battle by surrendering the word “progress” to the left, which insists on regressing to tyranny, having smarter people make your choices for you, “educated” people. Go ahead and call that “progressive” if you want, but understand why it is Republicans lose even when they win. Please, and hurry.
Blair-
Excellent points.
We need to get rid of tenure (in part), there’s no reason academic’s can’t negotiate, say, a 5 year contract
janyuary-
I’m sure you know this, but ‘progressive’ when used as a political term has nothing to do with “progress.”
Highly recommend:
The Progressive Era by Murray Rothbard.
Chapter 1
https://youtu.be/tvS6W72NAs0
wayne — I am sure what people refuse to acknowledge, which is that they agree, willingly, to go along with wrong usage of words by factions that claim words that belie their intent, and then claim that there was nothing they could do about it. When certainly they could have taken the more difficult path and respected that over which they lack control — language. People fool themselves thinking that they can outsmart language and how it affects people — and it is WHY Republicans lose even when they win and it why Democrats, lefties, “progressives,” win even when they lose.
Debating the mercurial, dynamic meanings of individual words as how they define people, is a waste of time.
Accepting the power of language on human behavior and then dealing with it is the only way to keep our liberty.
Please, wake up to this soon.
Edward: I prefer to read as it takes me about one fifth the time to read information than it takes to listen to someone speak it. The root of the word “progressive” is progress.
It is that simple, and THAT is how your brain, beyond your control when it comes to hearing language, will compute it no matter how much you tell it that this kind of “progress” is really something else. No, the root of the word “progressive” is “progress” and IF it is used as a political term then you had better well understand the power of that word used thus.
Indeed we have proof all around us — we see it every time the left wins even when they lose, and we see it every time always-play-defense (by defininition, duh) conseratives and Republicans lose even when they win.
Innocent, voting “against” — just a figure of speech,, right? No, it is bad use of language that allows people to ignore the action they are taking, a bad or stupid action, and claim that their intent justifies it. Intent and action are totally separate from each other but language has fooled many should-be-smarter people into voting otherwise.
Oops, sorry the comment was directed to Wayne, not Edward!
Rule of holes, when you find yourself in a hole “quit digging”
I found someone who is going over the new vaccination reports and telling you what the mockingbird media will never tell you.
It’s absolutely flabbergasting!
Have you watered why they claim it’s 95% effective? It’s because more people died with the placebo then with the M-RNA shot. This 13 minute analysis needs to be spread far and wide so that people know what they are doing to us.
Wayne, medical stuff is your specialty, can you break this down? Data from the manufacturer.
https://ugetube.com/watch/moderna-vaccine-kills-13-people-according-to-the-fda-report_NpQVW2Awt2CAfiE.html
Very informative, even shows examples of people faking shots on live TV. Show this to anyone who is thinking about getting a shot.
And if that wasn’t enough, cOVID-19 variation 25 has proven to be very very aggressive. Britain has shut down this morning, people not excepting flights out of England. Here’s one article had a mini that appeared this morning.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-k-lockdowns-prompt-travel-bans-to-block-new-covid-19-strain-11608469676
You wait, I bet somebody’s got a vaccination for that too… No testing or efficacy required when people are in a panic.
janyuary–
(I am honored, to be confused momentarily, with Edward.) ((I would vote Edward onto my school-board, and sleep soundly knowing he wasn’t actively conspiring against the people who pay the taxes.))
–it may be the root word, but I prefer ‘progression’ rather than ‘progress,’ but, no matter. The Left is The Master of the language, and they spare no expense finely crafting our culture, to destroy our language, and in turn our ability to think.
–with a rising ‘middle-class,’ to use marxist-speak, it becomes impossible to convince (most) people to violently overthrow their government.
‘Fabian Socialism’ & ‘American-variant Progressivism’– whose purpose is to “advance the principles of democratic socialism via gradualist and reformist effort in democracies, rather than by revolutionary overthrow.”
–it’s a progression towards utopia, but change for the sake of change isn’t necessarily progress. The major fight between the Left right now is between the revolutionary’s and the “scientific managers.”
It’s been a long 100-year haul, but they are winning (have essentially won). Numerous firewalls in our Constitution had to be breached along the way, and they were and they were sold as ‘progress.’; Direct election of Senators & the Income Tax, to name but 2.
Little time right now, so I’ll stop.
Hoppewave (so to speak…)
“Absurdistan The Music Video”
https://youtu.be/8CvbDOJT1ro
4:33
going totally off the rails….
a visual language unto itself:
“12 Days of Christmas”
Performed In American Sign Language
Mrs. Rodriguez December 2013
https://youtu.be/HpuT9lIrc2w
4:06
Jeff Fauva,
You probably should have paid attention to the paper that you linked to. It makes my point, social distancing is made difficult when people are trapped in lockdown, but leaves me wondering what your point may be. .
Blair Ivey,
You wrote: “We are living in a Progressive fantasy that has little or nothing to do with reality. Want to escape? Stop voting Democrat.”
I stopped voting Republican, too. They went far left early in this century. They seem to have decided that emulating the progressives is a winning strategy. In addition, the Republican Party made some very important promises but refused to follow through, so they are completely useless. Getting out, or escaping, is looking like the solution is not political. It has become very hard to find politicians who are able to do the job.
Max wrote: “Rule of holes, when you find yourself in a hole ‘quit digging’”
If the hole is already too deep, you need to start digging upward, at an angle that you can climb.
“Have you watered why they claim it’s 95% effective?’”
The vaccine tests had some interesting problems with their volunteers. I recall that there were several or many volunteers who were shopping multiple tests. When they thought that they were in a placebo group they would try to get into another test, hoping that they would get the “real” stuff.
Max — so much great re-reading here, you and all of these great commenters like Questioner and Edward and wayne etc helping so much to clarify thought — I’m grateful for this place of sane, rational, thinking. I am re-reading many wonderful reads and appreciating the commenters even more.
The catch-22 of conspiracies is that: you’re a crazy “conspiracy theorist” even when you lack a theory but know when you’re being screwed and have pretty good instinctive suspicions … but history has vindicated the most bizarre of crazy conspiracy theorists time and again. In other words, as an accused conspiracy theorist (usually with zero theory claimed) you are damned if you do and damned if you don’t; you’re crazy until history proves you correct, which it often has in the past. Alas!
Your research into the vaccines is terrifying and totally believable.. As for myself, I distance myself, and always have, from 21st century conventional medicine and media as much as possible and go back to the ways that have served homo sapiens pretty well over the past four million years or so. And also in my life I’ve seen a lot of healthy young strapping specimens come down with very nasty flus and then heal, the kind that today people think require hospitalization or-else, which is another huge game of marketing and fear and a tremendous amount of wasted money, time, and stress.
“Creating a need and filling it.” The medical industry has written the book on that. People who credulously consume marketing with zero discernment, will be well conditioned to take that vaccine and view with suspicion any who reject it. The medical industry spends many billions on marketing every year. The worst is that most consumers of marketing are unaware that they are consuming it; they tell themselves they’re “tuning it out” but the only way to tune it out is to turn it off altogether. What’s been seen, heard, cannot be unseen/unheard. They will be manipulated by it until they turn it off.
We got along pretty well without a lot of the things we think are crucial today, for a very long time. People have been marketed into believing that they wouldn’t live without their media. The reality is that living with it is half-living, right now.
Janyuary,
Thank you for the kind words.
I also appreciate commenters with great knowledge and experience that gravitate to this website. I’ve learned much and continue to learn every day as I check into the site before I check the news. (I seldom watch TV anymore) although I work 50 hours a week, I always make time to learn something every day. I found this website is the perfect place for my education. Thanks to Zimmerman’s high standards, civility, and clear logical thinking. Although I’m not a scientist like others on this site, I enjoy collecting data and observing cause and effect along with known scientific laws as compared to the theories or hypothesis that make no sense whatsoever that so many scientists want us to buy hook line and sinker.
Conspiracy is another word that has been miss used badly by the English language. Every government conspires against other governments sending out their spies. Every board room conspires against their competitors . Every food outlet conspires to put a product on the market to draw the evening crowds away from other establishments. Etc.
Look up “fault flag events” on Wikipedia and you’ll get a list of proven and well documented state sponsored events that are considered conspiracy theories that others are pre-program to ridicule and ignore without any basis in fact and they don’t even know why.
I can go on and on about my studies into religion, global warming, science anomalies, government, harmful medicine, and how things work, but I’d rather use my imagination to explore ideas relating to space and the possibilities of a brighter future far away from this planet.
Lots in the news, even though the media is taking a holiday. Here’s a confirmed report about the woman in the video I posted above.
https://bgdsearches.com/2020/12/20/tiffany-dover-death-obituary-tennessee-nurse-dies-after-covid-injection-not-confirmed/
I had commented about this to a friend, and she said when her slightly premature baby got its vaccination shot at birth for hepatitis (the kind that you can only get if you do intervenous drugs sharing needles or having anal sex) The death certificate said it was SIDS. (sudden infant death syndrome) The go to excuse for every vaccination or unknown death, without a cause, to a healthy baby.
Both of my children had health problems after childhood vaccination, my wife insisted it was the right thing to do and they required it for grade school, (which they didn’t). I was in my 20s but I learned quickly not to trust authority. My wife’s cousin died, two of my siblings ended up in the hospital. I’m not a big fan of the pharmaceutical industry.
Most of the recent studies, although the educated/indoctrinated minions call it conspiracy theories, verified that vaccinations are more harmful than helpful. The most recent one showed 60% of the children vaccinated have health problems, as compared to 6% in the unvaccinated group. I know, “don’t believe your lying eyes” even though I am one of them…
The newest conspiracy theory (that cotour is going to love). Billionaire ceo of overstock.com asked by the FBI in operation snow globe to catch Hillary in a bribe. Now he tells the rest of the story openly. Is it true? It sure sounds like it… And it involves Obama and his wife.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DVdKeQs8Qsk&noapp=1
Other conspiracy theories in the news today but I haven’t had a moment to look up yet, involve William bar being worth 40 million or more after Government retirement, becoming an executive working for various companies like Verizon and “dominion” before retiring again and coming back to work for Trump.
Natural news has the report by Allied verifying that the computers the voting machines elections were fraudulent.
Q is saying that Seth rich died because of his knowledge of the 2016 voting fraud he came across while working for the DNC.
That there was Russian interference, in the 2016 elections after all, Russia removed the cheating software that would’ve given Hillary the win in the election causing a fair and accurate vote count in the 2016 elections.
I just heard Cuomo on the radio threatening people and he was going to double down on something….
Elon Musk here takes a very rational and reasonable look at the Covid-19 hysteria that I share. He has to fight a hyper-moral leftist woman. He is great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BnR_phGfE8
Questioner:
Two thumbs up on Musk in general and specifically on the subject of the virus and how to effectively and reasonably deal with it.
I would add him to my 2024 presidential candidate list, but I believe he was born in South Africa.
I also want to point something out here:
For the Left / the democrats to successfully install their Socialist “utopia” and to implement the “Great reset”, or to “Build back better”, first you must destroy what was, the peoples ability to earn and support themselves. And then government is left as the only way to that end.
And somewhere in what we are seeing going on in our country and the world that goal is alive and where it can be implemented it will be and is.
I think that is reasonable to conclude and this virus serves many masters in the furtherance of these goals. Let us not be naive.
And again, coincidentally:
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/world-economic-forum-admits-davos-2021-will-reveal-great-reset-initiative/
“Many on the right were mocked for saying the “Great Reset” was a part of a larger conspiracy to impose worldwide tyranny.
The globalists are openly admitting they are using Covid-19 as a vehicle to usher in a Marxist takeover of the world yet conservatives who sound the alarm are mocked as “conspiracy theorists.”
“The COVID-19 pandemic has demonstrated that no institution or individual alone can address the economic, environmental, social and technological challenges of our complex, interdependent world. The pandemic itself will not transform the world, but it has accelerated systemic changes that were apparent before its inception. The fault lines that emerged in 2020 now appear as critical crossroads in 2021. The time to rebuild trust and to make crucial choices is fast approaching as the need to reset priorities and the urgency to reform systems grow stronger around the world.
The Davos Agenda will also mark the launch of the World Economic Forum’s Great Reset Initiative and begin the preparation of the Special Annual Meeting in the spring.”
Max wrote: “Most of the recent studies, although the educated/indoctrinated minions call it conspiracy theories, verified that vaccinations are more harmful than helpful.”
Vaccines are another topic with plenty of emotion on both sides. Since some vaccines have worked in the past, too many people feel as though most or all vaccines work well, often to the point of demanding mandatory vaccinations. Since anecdotal evidence shows terrible events happening shortly after vaccination, too many people feel as though the event was associated with the vaccination and that most or all vaccines are dangerous, often to the point of wanting vaccines banished.
Since medications have side effects — a medication has more than one effect on the human body — we must always weigh side effects with the desired effect. Over time, various medications develop limitations on use, such as aspirin and teenagers. Vaccines are similar, there can be side effects, but are they too terrible or are they acceptable? Is the individual or society at large safer even though some individuals are irreparably harmed or is the harm worse than the safety?
These are some of the counterintuitive results that many people have a difficult time acknowledging.
On his last day, Bar says there’s no reason to appoint a special prosecutor, Trump should just except the results of the election.
He sees and hears no wrongdoing, he has seen no fraud as he has his fingers in his ears and his eyes closed.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/barr-voting-machines-seize-trump-theories-b1777212.html
Nothing to see here, move along, move along. Man behind the curtain? What curtain…
If you can’t get enough of M-RNA vaccine information, here’s the best article about what it does, what it doesn’t, and what it could do to you…
It addresses the very thing Edward was talking about, with the details, once again proving Edward knows what he’s talking about.
mRNA vaccines, a primer: How they work, why they’re “cleaner” than traditional vaccines, and why they might prove catastrophic in a rushed coronavirus response
https://science.news/2020-05-25-mrna-vaccines-how-they-work-coronavirus.html
I’ve been speculating for months, unfortunately it’s worse than I thought.
Cotour, build back better;
You are right, there is a phrase used were typhoons and hurricanes tear everything down and the government promises to build it back stronger than ever… Build back better.
Here’s an article that personally makes me sick to read because it’s so full of hate, negatively, venom. The use of the English language to tear people down so nicely even the death of President Trump by removing his oxygen comes close to breaking the rules.
Their plans for our future, they even plan to bring back the republican party in their image.
“”For the foreseeable future, journalists will rightly focus on the pandemic. But once that is contained and defeated, it will be time to go back to focusing more attention on things like the Paris accord and the carbon tax; the earned-income tax credit and infrastructure; entitlement reform and monetary policy; charter schools and campus speech codes; legal immigration, asylum, assimilation, and social mobility. There is also an opportunity, with Trump a former president, for the Republican Party to once again become the home of sane conservatism. Whether that happens or not is an open question. But it’s something many of us are willing to work for, and that even progressives should hope for””
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/12/trump-losing-his-mind/617446/
Max–
Barr is a wealthy guy, not silicon-valley rich, but ‘comfortable.’
(It should go without saying– none of these people have your or my, best-interests at heart.)
We are witness to political realm strategy over pedestrian realm morality.
All of the players here are political players, either elected or obligated to protect the political class because their futures and interests are tied to them. For Barr to recommend a special prosecutor related to the Biden’s, specifically Hunter would set off of all sorts of retaliation should Biden become president.
To think that the pedestrian morality and justice will be applied by those who are political players is not realistic.
S.O.M prevails here.
The only possible example where this rule will be breached will be during the electoral event that will be happening on Jan 6th. There in that setting the political players can and should fulfill their fiduciary responsibilities as they relate to the Constitution and their constituents and the spoiled election and the evidence that is being accrued.
The Constitution provides the solution, the question remains, will the level of evidence and the pressure that is being transmitted to the elected representatives become enough to accomplish the breach?
We will all know that answer soon enough.
Edward thanks for so much great food for thought, you and all the others here! This thread is fat and fascinating with really good comments. You replied to me: “You responded to: “The claim that a highly contagious respiratory disease doesn’t spread between people eating, socializing and exercising in close proximity at venues like gyms and restaurants is . . . irrational.”
“Irrational” is the wrong word. It is counterintuitive …”
Certainly it is counterintuitive that something labeled “highly contagious” remains safely stowed while people are “eating, socializing, and exercising in close proximity.” That is for sure counterintuitive as to what to expect from something referred to as “highly contagious”!
My best experience in “counterintuitive” was when I finally believed my lyin’ eyes seeing a wise healthy old person, and listened to her adivice about diet to STOP drinking non-fat milk (almost a quart a day, I am a big dairy consumer) and switch to whole milk.
Within two weeks, all else the same, same exercise, same diet … I had lost four pounds (and it has stayed off).
It was significant on my small frame then dressed out at 128 pounds. It dropped to 124. I lost even more blubber when I switched from half-and-half in my coffee, to heavy whipping cream; I buy it by the quart when I can’t get it by the half gallon and cook with it often. I am at the trim weight I was in high school because I eat a lot of fat while my weight-conscious friends go low-fat or non-fat and are constantly getting fatter. That is counter-intuitive, poor things they just believe their betters (doctors, health “experts”) rather than their lyin’ eyes.