Sweden — land of no lockdowns or mandates — is doing best of all European nations against COVID
Click for full image.
Sweden has been slammed repeatedly by our panic-stricken mob of elitist leaders in politics, academia, and journalism for refusing to impose lockdowns or mask mandates. Instead, they essentially followed the recommendations of the Great Barrington Declaration and focused on protecting the vulnerable (the old and sick) while allowing everyone else (the young and healthy) to live normal lives. (This approach is what western civilization had done for the last two centuries when faced with a new flu epidemic, and only abandoned it in 2020 when our new leftist masters decided they knew better.)
The result was that the COVID virus quickly spread through Sweden’s strong and healthy population, did little harm, but left behind a nation of people who all have a natural immunity to the Wuhan flu and its later strains. Thus, while the rest of Europe — home of totalitarian and mindless governmental restrictions, lockdowns, mask and vaccine mandates — is now dealing with new outbreaks of the Wuhan flu and new deaths, Sweden is not.
The chart above, from the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control and annotated by Doug Ross, illustrates this starkly. He also notes this disgusting fact about the bankrupt journalists of today:
It took me well more than 12 seconds to find the website of the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control, where weekly Covid updates from each country are tabulated. That level of effort finding the numbers apparently is too difficult for Pro Journalists at the HDNY Times*, CCNN, NBS, Politishmo, Yapoo and the rest.
Natural immunity is the best way to protect against the arrival of new flu strains. The drugs that have been developed might do okay, but against respiratory diseases like the coronavirus they have never been a real solution, only a bandaid that is best reserved for that old and sick population who really needs it. This is why we have always advised older people to get flu shots, but not the young.
Readers!
Please consider supporting my work here at Behind the Black. Your support allows me the freedom and ability to analyze objectively the ongoing renaissance in space, as well as the cultural changes -- for good or ill -- that are happening across America. Fourteen years ago I wrote that SLS and Orion were a bad ideas, a waste of money, would be years behind schedule, and better replaced by commercial private enterprise. Only now does it appear that Washington might finally recognize this reality.
In 2020 when the world panicked over COVID I wrote that the panic was unnecessary, that the virus was apparently simply a variation of the flu, that masks were not simply pointless but if worn incorrectly were a health threat, that the lockdowns were a disaster and did nothing to stop the spread of COVID. Only in the past year have some of our so-called experts in the health field have begun to recognize these facts.
Your help allows me to do this kind of intelligent analysis. I take no advertising or sponsors, so my reporting isn't influenced by donations by established space or drug companies. Instead, I rely entirely on donations and subscriptions from my readers, which gives me the freedom to write what I think, unencumbered by outside influences.
You can support me either by giving a one-time contribution or a regular subscription. There are four ways of doing so:
1. Zelle: This is the only internet method that charges no fees. All you have to do is use the Zelle link at your internet bank and give my name and email address (zimmerman at nasw dot org). What you donate is what I get.
2. Patreon: Go to my website there and pick one of five monthly subscription amounts, or by making a one-time donation.
3. A Paypal Donation or subscription:
4. Donate by check, payable to Robert Zimmerman and mailed to
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You can also support me by buying one of my books, as noted in the boxes interspersed throughout the webpage or shown in the menu above.
Click for full image.
Sweden has been slammed repeatedly by our panic-stricken mob of elitist leaders in politics, academia, and journalism for refusing to impose lockdowns or mask mandates. Instead, they essentially followed the recommendations of the Great Barrington Declaration and focused on protecting the vulnerable (the old and sick) while allowing everyone else (the young and healthy) to live normal lives. (This approach is what western civilization had done for the last two centuries when faced with a new flu epidemic, and only abandoned it in 2020 when our new leftist masters decided they knew better.)
The result was that the COVID virus quickly spread through Sweden’s strong and healthy population, did little harm, but left behind a nation of people who all have a natural immunity to the Wuhan flu and its later strains. Thus, while the rest of Europe — home of totalitarian and mindless governmental restrictions, lockdowns, mask and vaccine mandates — is now dealing with new outbreaks of the Wuhan flu and new deaths, Sweden is not.
The chart above, from the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control and annotated by Doug Ross, illustrates this starkly. He also notes this disgusting fact about the bankrupt journalists of today:
It took me well more than 12 seconds to find the website of the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control, where weekly Covid updates from each country are tabulated. That level of effort finding the numbers apparently is too difficult for Pro Journalists at the HDNY Times*, CCNN, NBS, Politishmo, Yapoo and the rest.
Natural immunity is the best way to protect against the arrival of new flu strains. The drugs that have been developed might do okay, but against respiratory diseases like the coronavirus they have never been a real solution, only a bandaid that is best reserved for that old and sick population who really needs it. This is why we have always advised older people to get flu shots, but not the young.
Readers!
Please consider supporting my work here at Behind the Black. Your support allows me the freedom and ability to analyze objectively the ongoing renaissance in space, as well as the cultural changes -- for good or ill -- that are happening across America. Fourteen years ago I wrote that SLS and Orion were a bad ideas, a waste of money, would be years behind schedule, and better replaced by commercial private enterprise. Only now does it appear that Washington might finally recognize this reality.
In 2020 when the world panicked over COVID I wrote that the panic was unnecessary, that the virus was apparently simply a variation of the flu, that masks were not simply pointless but if worn incorrectly were a health threat, that the lockdowns were a disaster and did nothing to stop the spread of COVID. Only in the past year have some of our so-called experts in the health field have begun to recognize these facts.
Your help allows me to do this kind of intelligent analysis. I take no advertising or sponsors, so my reporting isn't influenced by donations by established space or drug companies. Instead, I rely entirely on donations and subscriptions from my readers, which gives me the freedom to write what I think, unencumbered by outside influences.
You can support me either by giving a one-time contribution or a regular subscription. There are four ways of doing so:
1. Zelle: This is the only internet method that charges no fees. All you have to do is use the Zelle link at your internet bank and give my name and email address (zimmerman at nasw dot org). What you donate is what I get.
2. Patreon: Go to my website there and pick one of five monthly subscription amounts, or by making a one-time donation.
3. A Paypal Donation or subscription:
4. Donate by check, payable to Robert Zimmerman and mailed to
Behind The Black
c/o Robert Zimmerman
P.O.Box 1262
Cortaro, AZ 85652
You can also support me by buying one of my books, as noted in the boxes interspersed throughout the webpage or shown in the menu above.
As our government doubles down forcing even the vaccinated to get boosters to use up the stock pile of useless vaccine… (Keep in mind the US has spent more money fighting Covid than World war one and two put together) New studies show that the rushed vaccine without any testing is indeed a fake product. Marketed by the technique of mass hysteria. Logic and reason is deplatformed, baned and canceled in favor of riot and emotional outbursts with finger pointing probably leading to witch burning…
https://rifnote.com/2021/08/26/two-new-studies-from-israel-and-the-uk-found-that-natural-immunity-is-far-superior-and-much-better-than-the-artificial-immunity-from-vaccines-vaccinated-people-were-also-13-times-as-likely-to-be-infe/
Now who would’ve thunk it, if we did nothing at all we would’ve been just fine. Just another cold season. Sweden proves it!
The other shoe is about to drop so hold on tight, this road is going to be a bumpy one. Is it too late to stop the dark age?
Max: Thank you for reminding me. I had planned to include a link to this story in this post, and forgot. I have now added it.
Wrong numbers! Your chart’s column 5 is for week 2021-33 only. Column 3 shows deaths over the entire pandemic. By diving those by population you will find that Sweden’s death rate is about 9 and 7 times those for Norway and Finland, respectively. Reuters’s numbers, which are close to yours, back this up.
One may interpret week 33’s numbers in any number of ways, but to me it just means that the sick people in Sweden are already dead.
C19 is used by oppressive Western governments and the interested power structures behind them to implement a surveillance and restriction infrastructure. It’ll later be expanded to climate protection and other just causes. A Chinese-inspired Social Credit System will be implemented that will monitor and limit your ability to move (access control), communicate, share or receive information, and engage in commercial transactions.
The “freedoms” that come with vaccinations have an expiration date, your civil rights will be dependent on your vaccination status. 270 days in Austria and Croatia, 180 days in Israel, EU Schengen area proposes similar limitations. Others will follow. “Green pass” in France or Italy to enter domestic flights or trains, same in Canada. Next step, not allowed to leave your province/state or county without the vaccination. And soon it’ll be harmonized in Western countries. Your “immune system as a service” in exchange for civil rights, provided you get the booster/refresher every 6–9 months.
Look at Australia: one hour per day for “recreation” outside your home. If you’re vaccinated, you’re allowed an additional hour and meet up to five other people within five kilometers of your home.
This isn’t about a virus anymore.
Robert noted: “This is why we have always advised older people to get flu shots, but not the young.”
Fun anecdote: I shared an office with an older gentleman, and he and his wife went to get flu shots. He related that there was a line of older folks around the store.
“If the government wanted to get rid of old folks, this was the way to do it.” We made a few jokes about “Logans’s Run” and “Soylent Green”, but still . . .
Max, The Israel natural immunity story was on Tucker Carlson tonight and he said it is a huge story and would have been the lead story on his show if it wasn’t for Afghanistan.
There are other stories that didn’t make the news because of Afghanistan. One was the story Wayne posted, from the January 6 commission, of a large hit list for Trump and his family, supporters, conservative leaders and conservative media as enemies of the state.
Another is Dr. Fauci admitting that the shots could cause ADE (well documented)
https://dreddymd.com/2021/08/28/fauci-admits-antibodies-from-covid-19-vaccines-actually-make-the-virus-stronger/
This is the reason it is 13 x more likely to be infected, and 27 times more likely to die.
The crisper that allows the MNRA shots to modify your RNA and DNA (now proven) Will not only make new variance of COVID-19, but Will change and modify any other disease or bacteria that you may have, and the DNA changes will pass on to your children. Natures way of passing on immunity of those who survive disease is being altered to pass mutant genes and disease onto your children. (If the SM102 allows you to have children)
The CDC considers you unvaccinated if you die within 14 days of your second dose.
https://vaccines.news/2021-08-26-cdc-fully-vaccinated-covid-deaths-unvaccinated.html#
Then there’s the fraud of approving a vaccine before it’s two-year trial had even reached six months.
“We now know the FDA “approval” of the Pfizer covid vaccine is a bold, treacherous gaslighting campaign involving media lies, fake science and criminal conduct at the FDA itself. Issuing two letters on Monday, the FDA actually extended the EUA for the Pfizer vaccine while granting approval to a different vaccine called “Comirnaty” which does not exist in the marketplace and isn’t even in production”
https://depopulation.news/2021-08-25-fda-gaslights-the-world-with-fake-approval-of-pfizer-vaccine.html#
Australia has now commissioned “not concentration camps” but “wellness camps” for those who need healing… Against their will.
Thank you Robert Zimmerman for providing a forum that allows freethinking people to express them selves. As a truth seeker, I am happy to help when “knowledge that will set you free” is discovered and shared to free others.
Looks like Denmark is emulating them now …
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/denmark-scrap-all-covid-19-restrictions
The best thing for an older person or anyone with risk factors might be to get a vaccine first and then follow up with a booster exposure to the real virus. But is anyone able to manufacture the real virus?
How could they have successfully protected all their elderly people when their death rate/million is 10 times that of their neighbors Norway?
Andrew_W: Please find for me the spot in my post where I said “they successfully protected all their elderly people”.
You can’t. You falsely create a fake and idiotic statement that you imply I said, and then use it to make yourself look smart.
The intellectual dishonesty is monumental. It is also par for the course.
Sorry, I should have quoted you
focused on protecting the vulnerable (the old and sick)
So the strategy they employed for achieving that goal was considerably less successful (to date) than the strategy employed by Norway.
Andrew_W: I’ll tell you a little secret, if you can promise not to broadcast to others in your home country, totalitarian New Zealand, land of imprisoned scared little control freaks:
This is an epidemic of a new respiratory virus. When such things arrive, people die. There is nothing that can be done to prevent that.
Norway appears to have fewer deaths than Sweden, but Norway paid for that in other things (as is New Zealand). The statistics here do not include additional deaths from other illnesses caused by the unavailability of healthcare. It does to include the worldwide increases in suicides due to depression from the consequences of lockdowns and the destruction of people’s lives.
You can follow the new tyrannical leftist strategies, or you can follow the more courageous policies of that now lost western civilization that encouraged freedom of choice and personal responsibility. Neither will prevent a rise in deaths among the elderly sick when a new respiratory virus arrives. One (the latter) will at least give you a robust free society where people can still pursue happiness.
The former, what you have in New Zealand, is ugly, repressive, and destructive to the human spirit.
I choice the latter. You can have the former.
Why, thank you Mr. Zimmerman.
But let me share a secret with you. New Zealanders have chosen to act together to get the job done, it’s something Americans used to be proud of being able to do, sadly, as the world can see, they’re no longer capable of cooperating with each other to reach a goal as a country. And so this foreign invader has swept through your country killing hundreds of thousands of your countrymen, which is a terrible state of affairs.
Compare that to New Zealand where our unity has been our strength, as it always is when in a battle against an invader.
As a result, and as you can see in this link, New Zealanders have suffer less restrictions on their freedoms over the last 18 months that any other Western country – including Sweden.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-stringency-index?tab=chart&country=NZL~SWE~GBR~USA
“Australia has now commissioned “not concentration camps” but “wellness camps” for those who need healing… Against their will.”
To be clear, the quarantine camp being built is at “Wellcamp” which is the name of the district it is in, a 30 minute drive from my house. It is next to an airport which was built some years ago by a local business group. The airport has a 3 km runway capable of handling 747’s. Some say “an airport to nowhere” which was built on the premise “build it and they will come”. They haven’t and the State Government is refusing to say how much money they are giving to the business group to build the camp which has been done without Federal Government approval. Our Feds can make it useless instantly as they control aviation in Australia. The locals here in Toowoomba certainly don’t want the camp.
As for Andrew_W, he’s just a demented leftist. Both Australia and New Zealand have had oppressive governments for years, even before the CCP virus. These two countries are now stuck with populations with essentially no immunity, vaccine programs being rolled out which are providing dangerous vaccines of rapidly fading efficacy (months at best) and maybe really nasty long term effects along with loss of all freedoms and liberties which are known in both countries as “privileges”.
I also thought, Andrew_W that the approved Woke Leftist saying was “Diversity is our Strength”, not ” Unity is our Strength”. You’ll lose points for that.
Both Australia and New Zealand have had oppressive governments for years,
Well, that’s the opinion of Mike Borgelt.
Not the opinion of the Cato Institue, which ranks NZ 1st in their Human Freedom Index,
or Reporters without Borders which ranks NZ 8th in press freedom,
or The Heritage Foundation which ranks NZ 2nd in Economic Freedom.
ahh, CATO….. Libertarianism Incorporated
“Libertarians For Mandates”
Dave Smith / Part Of The Problem / episode 772
August 25, 2021
https://youtu.be/KvzG4MKuY3g
1:04:08
“On this episode of Part Of The Problem, Dave and Robbie react to an article by Robert Levy titled, Analyzing Vaccine Mandates From A Libertarian Perspective….”
We’ll the CCP sure fooled you lot. Knowing that a military attack on American would unite the country, they cunningly attacked you with a virus, knowing it would cause even greater division in America. And you still haven’t worked it out.
Of course taking measures to defeat their attack is perfectly consistent with libertarian principles because defending the country from attack is one of the few roles for government that is consistent with libertarianism.
You poor naive people. :-)
New Zealanders have chosen to act together to get the job done
In a manner reminiscent of the typical middle-school group project … an elite few making the decisions, with the rest of you along for the ride whether you want to be or not. … or in blind trust, like one of my high-school classmates that has come up to me at reunions and stated that they got through high school because they sat next to a known “class brain” (me).
You do not realize how vulnerable that makes you. You have chosen to SUBMIT to that elite few, as though they are omniscient and infallible, the collateral damage to some in your midst being dismissed as irrelevant.
Mike Borgelt is likely right … These two countries are now stuck with populations with essentially no immunity, vaccine programs being rolled out which are providing dangerous vaccines of rapidly fading efficacy (months at best) and maybe really nasty long term effects along with loss of all freedoms and liberties which are known in both countries as “privileges”.
I would love to see those economic-freedom ratings reassessed, in the light of that.
As for our defense … I refer you to the words of the founder of Seal Team Six, Richard Marcinko …
… I will not be afraid to take action because I know that almost any action is better than inaction. And I know that sometimes not acting is the boldest action of all.
Much of the disunity here, is driven by those who want to be seen as taking action to “beat COVID” to justify compelling us to SUBMIT to them in all areas. If you take a look at the light-action, conservative-governed states like Florida, South Dakota, and Texas, they have fared far better through this overall than the Progressive-governed states like New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, California, and Michigan, who ran their economies into the ground even as they were putting COVID-positive seniors back into nursing homes.
Fortunately, at that time we had a President who respected federalism, and didn’t seek to subject all 50 states to the full Cuomo treatment.
I’ve had WuFlu. But my continued existence does not justify the attitude of zero-risk, do-what-we’re-told-will-work panic-demic the Left wants to impose on both our nations.
(Wonder where Lee, “Our man from Sweden” is?).
So maybe Sweden’s plan is looking better, perhaps a few more deaths but a lower cost to society.
Maybe. But the data is still incomplete.
Looked at the article Max linked to about natural vs vaccine immunity
( https://rifnote.com/2021/08/26/two-new-studies-from-israel-and-the-uk-found-that-natural-immunity-is-far-superior-and-much-better-than-the-artificial-immunity-from-vaccines-vaccinated-people-were-also-13-times-as-likely-to-be-infe/ )
Looks like those who went through Covid (such as myself) have much greater immunity compared to vax.
But wait, is there an asterisk? In one paragraph it states:
“At the end of the study, researchers found that vaccinated people were 13 times as likely to be infected and 27 times to have symptomatic infections as a matched cohort that was previously infected with the Delta variant.”
“previously infected with the Delta variant.”
So what about the much greater population that was infected by earlier variants? How protected are they from Delta?
Rummy was right. There are the known unknowns and the unknown unknowns….
And Max linked to an article discussing the possibility of ADC and that the vax kills T-cells. The researcher from the T-cell study says (on video):
““So, the key message from our finding is we found that recipients of the Pfizer vaccine, those who have had two doses, have about five- to six-fold lower amounts of neutralizing antibodies,” said David Bauer, head of the Bauer Lab in the Francis Crick Institute.”
“Five to six fold lower” – than who? – people never vaccinated? people who had the disease?
And if the vax is so bad why does Bauer recommend a booster? And why do we see data showing vulnerable populations that were vaxxed have a lower death rate than those not vaxxed?
This is a science aware group. Lets keep a skeptical/questioning mind on all theories and unproven initial data. Speculating is fine but we should be aware it is just speculation.
Jester: In a manner reminiscent of the typical middle-school group project …
No, in a manner we see throughout history when countries or the welfare of their people are under threat, whether it be a natural threat or human.
You do not realize how vulnerable that makes you. You have chosen to SUBMIT to that elite few, as though they are omniscient and infallible,
Really?? You think we are in awe of our politicians or that we hold them in high regard?? God you’ve a patronizing attitude towards other people, thinking you’ve got this great wisdom on the dangers of power and politics that us simpletons somehow lack.
They are politicians, nobody trusts them.
These two countries are now stuck with populations with essentially no immunity, vaccine programs being rolled out which are providing dangerous vaccines of rapidly fading efficacy (months at best) and maybe really nasty long term effects along with loss of all freedoms and liberties which are known in both countries as “privileges”.
No, Mike Borgelt is certainly wrong, The vaccines are orders of magnitude safer that the virus, while they’re less effective against later strains than earlier strains they’re still far better than no vaccine. Yes, NZ and Australia will have to bite the bullet at some stage, accept that Covid is going to be here are that people will die from it, given the example seen in other countries with the efficiacy of vaccines vs IFR’s of the virus likely we’ll lose several hundred to the virus, vs several thousand we would have already lost had it been widespread without vaccination, actual deaths in NZ to date 26, which is about 5/million or 1/400th the death rate in the US.
If you take a look at the light-action, conservative-governed states like Florida, South Dakota, and Texas, they have fared far better through this overall than the Progressive-governed states like New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, California, and Michigan,
I had a look at the numbers, the more urbanized East coast states were hit earlier, but states like Florida and Texas are catching up fast, in terms of deaths/million those 8 states are mixed together, in ranking from highest death rate to lowest its: NJ, NY, SD, Pen, Mch, FL, Tex, Calif.
With all of them having had over 1,600/million deaths, across all states Hawaii has the lowest death rate at 415/million.
God you’ve a patronizing attitude towards other people, thinking you’ve got this great wisdom on the dangers of power and politics that us simpletons somehow lack..
No, I just see the same blind trust in the tunnel vision of “experts” and “leaders” that half of my own nation exhibits to our detriment.
The basic empowering characteristic of what I refer to as a social technocracy.
You are just doing what you’re told , in blind trust that what your leaders are telling you is actually effective … without regard to what other harm it is doing to your nation. Just as many here were doing what we’re told, as people lost their businesses and saw their kids’ educations disrupted for a year or more … and other people want all that to continue because it allows them to virtue-signal their “caring” about “saving even one life” – and setting the precedent for compelled compliance in other areas.
When I say that some states are doing better than others, understand that I include the economic, educational, and social impacts … for just as there is more to life than traffic fatalities – otherwise, the zero-risk fanatics would have us stop driving – there is more to life than COVID, or its death rate,
A point driven home to me in 2020, when in April – as my primary-care investigated why I had this persistent cough, testing me for COVID and sending me for a chest X-ray when I tested negative (before we figured out it was one of my meds causing the problem) – that X-ray revealed some “calcifications” within my heart. In large part thanks to disruptions of the panic-demic, it took me until late July to get into a cardiologist, who after looking at my EKG promptly ordered an angiogram … which revealed a ticking time bomb, in the form of a 99% blockage of one coronary artery that took three stents to alleviate.
And frankly, I wonder why Hawaii hasn’t been turned into Appalachia by their over-reaction.
The vaccines are orders of magnitude safer that the virus
Are they? And will your leaders allow you the latitude of making up your own mind that they are, or will simply expect you to submit to them in the name of the “common good”? I say that as someone who is fully vaccinated, having made a reasonably informed choice – and accepted risk – to do so … and as a grandfather who respects the choice of a granddaughter with her own health issues, to choose not to do so in the face of hassles with her college education by those who Know Better™.
If our leaders had the same respect for individual liberty as they want us to think they do for “saving one life”, the cargo-cult overreactions we are now seeing would be far more muted, and people would still be protected without burning down their economies and educations to save them.
That is what is driving my position here.
Let me make my timeline clear, as what I have posted might sound contradictory.
I contracted WuFlu around New Years Day 2021 … five months after that angiogram, eleven months after WuFlu arrived in force in the US.
I took the vaccine in May 2021, figuring that like the regular flu, natural immunity is not guaranteed – and with both very senior citizens and a grandson with a heart condition in the family, I figured that there was less risk in doing so vs. infecting them. Those are justifications that may not be proven valid when the whole story of WuFlu is written, but they were MY choices, based in common sense and personal experience.
Choices, not imposed by others who can’t tell me apart from a statistic, which is what I have seen advocated from NY state to New Zealand without regard to proven effectiveness and/or the potential for collateral damage.
Jester, America has turned into a country in which the two sides demonize each other, back in the Reagan era it wasn’t like that, the left and right in America had a pretty good understanding of the other sides position, and had respect for each other even if they disagreed. It’s why so many of the politicians from that earlier era are shocked by politics in America today.
Outside of America, in most Western countries, it’s still like that, our hatred hasn’t driven the people of the left and right to the point of insanity.
Stay safe.
Good morning ladies and gentlemen, your man in Sweden checking in from the UK! I am back to visit friends and my elderly family for the first time in over 2 years, and it is sooooo good to get to see them.
The journey however…. Not so much.
I was required to bring 3 documents with me, a confirmation that I am double vaccinated, a negative test result, which had to be printed out , ( no digital version allowed…) And a “track and trace” form stating where I am staying, when and where I am taking a covid test after arriving here, and many other details, and by the timing of which means it pretty much can only be digital.
I had my ” papers” checked about 9 times while traveling, ( I had a short stop over in Amsterdam, where I had to also prove my residency in Sweden, thank God I bought my Swedish ID with me, along with my UK passport)
Once I hit the UK, and in the line for passport controle there was a lady litteraly shouting at us to get our track and trace QR code ready to be scanned. Shouting at me to get my documents ready to be checked! I felt like some kind of illegal. Scandalous!
Masked up for the entire journey, except in the airport bars. ( This I didn’t mind, although very uncomfortable ). The hoops I had to jump thru just to get here were many, and the cost of the tests, both in Sweden, and tomorrow here in the UK pretty much equal my spending money while I am here. Once again scandalous.
But going back to Sweden, the deaths there have been mostly limited to nursing homes, Bob is wrong stating we protected the elderly and infirm. It is a sore point that little was done to protect residents of care homes. However, the virus has ripped thru the population, and now seems to have run its course, and deaths are very close to zero. This is with no lockdown, only a “recommendation” to wear masks on public transport, no compulsory rules, a max of 6 people to a table in bars and restaurants, and closing time reduced to 9pm , ( which didn’t bother me in the slightest, as my beer drinking time is only a couple after work )
Covid is no regular flu, I have lost 2 people I know, and it has put a couple of my work mates in hospital, however, I firmly believe that Sweden’s refusal to lock down has massively reduced economic troubles, mental health issues, and has probably reduced the over all death toll by a good amount. The suicide rate in countries with lockdown is thru the roof, and the virus is coming for you regardless. Vaccination is no doubt a good thing. It reduces the risk of serious health problems if and when you catch the Wu-Tang flu, and I would recommend everyone take it.
I also firmly believe that countries such as New Zealand are only postponing the inevitable. Unless they wish to remain isolated for ever, the virus is in the post. Sweden has proved that it is better to accept that fact and deal with it.
I don’t mind admitting I was wrong at the start of the pandemic. Time and circumstance has proved me so, and the Swedish model should be learned from. Bob is 100% correct here ( I don’t say that very often! ;-) , it’s funny how Sweden’s early spike in deaths and overall cases was all over the news, but it’s current death rate of almost zero has not made the headlines at all.
Love and light from your socialist Swedish reporter in the UK.
Much lower rates of hospitalization and death among those vaccinated than unvaccinated.
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/covid-19-by-the-numbers-vaccinated-continue-to-be-protected
In all states, the rate of breakthrough cases among the fully vaccinated is below 1 percent.
The number of fully vaccinated people who were hospitalized was only 8,054 as of August, according to the CDC. This is a tiny fraction of the 168 million people who have been fully vaccinated.
The rate of hospitalization among fully vaccinated people with COVID-19 was effectively zero in recent weeks in California, Delaware, D.C., Indiana, New Jersey, New Mexico, Vermont, and Virginia.
It was 0.06 percent in Arkansas, meaning over 99 percent of hospitalizations were unvaccinated.
Over 95 percent of those hospitalized in Alaska and 99.93 percent in New Jersey were not yet fully vaccinated either.
Vermont, which has 67 percent of its population fully vaccinated, shared similar statistics, with 13 people being hospitalized out of 276 people.
Over 96 percent of people who died in Montana and 99.91 percent in New Jersey were not fully vaccinated.
If we look at the number of vaccinated people developing COVID-19, the District of Columbia is another good example to examine. Of 200 fully vaccinated people who acquired SARS-CoV-2, only 13 were hospitalized, and none died.
So thanks Lee, but the evidence is still that NZ should have FAR lower hospitalization and death rates in 2022-23 than Sweden did in 2020-21.
@Lee Stevenson:
“And I thought they {you} was gone!”
Jayne ‘Serenity’ 2005
“So, we meet again, Mr. Bond.”
Apparently apocryphal, but sounds cool.
New Zealand has many sheep. Some have two legs. My New Zealand born wife of 43 years is not one of them.
If I could be bothered I could provide statistics which my wife has which contradict Andrew_W ‘s assertions on vaxxed/unvaxxed morbidity/mortality numbers.
“Papers Please”
Casablanca
https://youtu.be/s6NPpO4gbeU
0:23
Andrew_W
Are you familiar with Dave Smith?
I ask, because his current intention is to take over the Libertarian Party. (And that won’t include sucking up to CATO or the likes of Robert Levy and his brand of corporate-libertarianism.)
“What is a Libertarian?”
Dave Smith at the SOHO Forum October 2020
https://youtu.be/U14iShRAJN4
15:43
Jester, America has turned into a country in which the two sides demonize each other, back in the Reagan era it wasn’t like that, the left and right in America had a pretty good understanding of the other sides position, and had respect for each other even if they disagreed. It’s why so many of the politicians from that earlier era are shocked by politics in America today … Outside of America, in most Western countries, it’s still like that, our hatred hasn’t driven the people of the left and right to the point of insanity.
Perhaps that is because most other Western nations are farther down the gravity well of the black hole called social technocracy … and in American terms, your Left vs. Right is actually Far Left vs. Left. Such nations assume that the tenets of social technocracy:
> Put elites on pedestals of worship and trust.
> Trust “non-profit” entities over those who admit they’re out to make a HONEST buck.
> Replace thoughtful consideration with more and more “rules”.
> Subordinate individual rights to “the common good”, as defined by the Pedestaled.
> Consider the proximity-informed insight of ordinary people unqualified to challenge the above … and therefore expect nothing more from them than to just go with the flow of the status quo.
… are simply The Way Things Are and beyond the need to question.
In other words, those nations have forgotten that respect for life and INDIVIDUAL liberty as the PRIMARY value that drives governance is essential for maintaining the societal health – intellectually, economically, lawfully – that facilitates and sustains their quality of life.
Key word: sustains. A society does not decline overnight, once it forgets the above and embraces social technocracy … especially when there are other nations who still respect individual liberty AND expect individual responsibility (which is NOT simply doing what one is told from On High) out there, buffering them from the total costs of that sustainment in the short term.
The widespread engagement of distributed intellect that is not obstructed by those who Know Better™ in such nations leads to benefit for the social technocracies as well as themselves … from tech innovations (particularly in health care) that are outside-the-box of the technocracies’ established business and government entities, to the technical and economic ability to defend technocratic allies as well as themselves from the geopolitical wolves at our doors.
Here is the problem: for a century, on this planet, what hasn’t been in the jaws of those wolves, has been sliding down that gravity well. EVERY non-authoritarian nation has been moving from what I could call the ROLLER paradigm of governance (Respecting One’s Life and Liberty – Expecting Responsibility) into social technocracy, including my own.
And the deeper down that well we go, the more authoritarian such nations become … but that authoritarian rule, in this case, doesn’t come dressed in jackboots and armbands (at least not at first), but in bunny slippers and royal robes of condescension, worn by The Pedestaled Elite who Know Better™, who expect us to simply OBEY “for our own good” as though they are omniscient and infallible.
As I’ve asked Lee before, what is YOUR work-around when your “leaders” get the answers wrong, when they are given such power over you?
Our outrage in our politics is a response to that trend – it is not hate, it is an attempt to escape that gravity well and the ignorance and poverty that will result from our further descent into authoritarianism and a new Dark Age. And it is not the American Right that is seeking to impose compliance of 330 million individuals with a one-size-fits-all set of rules, as though it is the One True Way from On High, via coercive force and social intimidation that smacks of theocracy.
NZ and Oz, and much of Western Europe, is pretty far down that well. America is heading that way, though there are still many here who value the ROLLER paradigm and therefore we aren’t as far down the well … yet.
And a component of that gravity, is the tunnel vision upon “saving lives” without considering the TOTAL cost of doing so, which can lead to better approaches that do not burn down the village to save it.
Jester-
Good stuff.
“Top… men.”
Indiana Jones: Raiders of the Lost Arc
https://youtu.be/Fdjf4lMmiiI
0:37
Jester: Such nations assume that the tenets of social technocracy:
> Put elites on pedestals of worship and trust.
No, you’ve bought into a popular US conservative narrative, while we see that happening in the US with people like Trump and Hillary, in the rest of the Western world we usually have a healthy level of contempt for our politicians, at the moment NZ’s Ardern is a bit of an exception, even here, but the fawning over even her appears to be centered in the US left. Perhaps that’s what’s misled you. The US is exceptionally divided at the moment, you recognize that? It’s when people get caught up in the us vs them mentality that they start to turn their leaders into messiahs, as Trump and Clinton are to their respective followers, the more rational, less flashy contenders get sidelined in the pursuit of the greater good (destroying the enemy).
> Trust “non-profit” entities over those who admit they’re out to make a HONEST buck.
> Replace thoughtful consideration with more and more “rules”.
> Subordinate individual rights to “the common good”, as defined by the Pedestaled.
> Consider the proximity-informed insight of ordinary people unqualified to challenge the above … and therefore expect nothing more from them than to just go with the flow of the status quo.
In other words, those nations have forgotten that respect for life and INDIVIDUAL liberty as the PRIMARY value that drives governance is essential for maintaining the societal health – intellectually, economically, lawfully – that facilitates and sustains their quality of life.
Well that’s all a load of nonsense, I think all you’re doing is taking examples of what you see in the left in the US and projecting it onto the rest of the world
The left in the US is well to the left in the rest of the Western World. Leftist strategies and causes like critical theory, police defunding and cancel culture with their extremism are US creations and remain centered in the US. I wish you lot would keep them all to yourselves. Yes there has been some seepage of that nonsense, but slowly, mostly we think you lot are just going nuts with it all. I was going to add race and sex quotas and welcoming in international strays and malcontents, but I think the Europeans are leading on those two.
About the only area in which many Western countries are to the left of the US in terms of having more extensive state social support systems, certainly that’s true of NZ and the Scandinavian Social Democracies, but to a large extent that’s offset with less government restrictions on business, for example, it was very easy for RocketLab to get through the red tape here compared to in America, and that also applies to other forms of business, there aren’t so many layers of government looking to take their pound of flesh. Another area where America leads is in forms of crony capitalism, like pork barrel politics, I see subsides and social welfare for business as a form of socialism, so you’re to our left on that as well.
The widespread engagement of distributed intellect that is not obstructed by those who Know Better™ in such nations leads to benefit for the social technocracies as well as themselves
Again, taking what you see in the US left and projection it onto the rest of the world.
As I’ve asked Lee before, what is YOUR work-around when your “leaders” get the answers wrong, when they are given such power over you?
Wait for it: . . . We . . . Vote . . .Them. . .Out.
NZ has a three year electoral term, inevitably, if a government wins a third term “third term-ites” sets in, a disease the symptoms of which are arrogance, they start throwing their weight around, lose popular support and pay the price at election time. This also serves as a warning to the incoming government.
NZ and Oz, and much of Western Europe, is pretty far down that well.
You haven’t got a clue about politics in NZ, and are barely any better informed about Europe, you gobble up what your preferred information sources sell you, and as you and I know, the US media and social media have become very partisan the only real question is: do they lead or do they follow the preferred narratives?
40 years ago the US was near the top in terms of freedom in the West, since then we’ve seen you sail past us in your downward spiral. 17th on Cato’s Human freedom index, 20th on Heritage’s Economic Freedom Index, 25th on Transparency International’s Corruption Perception Index (NZ 1st on that one as well).
In the US, with so much of the country as blue states and red states, and with the winner-takes all system 48 states use, most voters count for naught, most voters in the US have essentially zero electoral power when it comes to deciding who is to be president. So they can be ignored.
Wayne, the US libertarian party counts for nothing so I don’t follow them closely, in NZ we have Act, more a classical liberal party than Libertarian, but with 10 seats in a 120 seat parliament they can at least get some media air.
FYI:
ACT states that it adheres to classical-liberal, small government and laissez-faire principles coupled with what the party considers as a high regard for individual freedom and personal responsibility.[17][7][9] ACT sets out its values:
That individuals are the rightful owners of their own lives and therefore have inherent freedoms and responsibilities.
That the proper purpose of government is to protect such freedoms and not to assume such responsibilities.[18]
All people should be equal before the law regardless of race, gender, sexuality, religion or political belief.[19]
Freedom of expression is essential to a free society and must be promoted, protected and preserved without restriction other than for incitement, criminal nuisance or defamation.[19]
Citizenship and permanent residency should be subject to applicants affirming New Zealand’s values.[19]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACT_New_Zealand
A_W:”…MOST voters count for naught, MOST voters in the US have essentially ZERO electoral power when it comes to deciding who is to be president. So they can be ignored.”
This is not true. Even in (and especially in) a winner take all contest, MOST voters in any state get all electoral votes cast for their candidate, and ALL voters certainly cannot be ignored by any candidate lest they lose all these winner take all votes [this has been well known by political professionals in the US for a long time]. This is a country of individual independent STATES and States rights, the United STATES of America. The States are generally democratic…the Country is a Republic and not a single monolithic pure democracy. There is a difference. In a pure democracy 50.1 % of the people can in theory “democratically” vote to enslave (literally or figuratively) the other 49.9% . In a winner take all of many states, this is much harder to do. And in a Constitutional Democracy it often takes super-majorities to change certain laws or constitutional amendments, which is also not a “pure democratic” system, thankfully.
It is true that the winner of the total popular vote sometimes does not win. This simply means populous urban leftist quagmires such as in California and New York cannot foist themselves on the rest of the country quite as easily as in a “pure democracy”, which is a small comfort.
But to say “…MOST voters count for naught, MOST voters in the US have essentially ZERO electoral power when it comes to deciding who is to be president. So they can be IGNORED.” is certainly hyperbole.
A much greater problem is voter fraud in voting systems in which there is little verification of valid votes cast and counted.
M d mill, the expectation of most voters is that their state will continue to be a red state or a blue state, that no realistically conceivably actions will change that. For that reason who is elected president will be determined by the decisions of a tiny proportion of voters in a few swing states. Most voters are smart enough to understand this.
Andrew … Wait for it: . . . We . . . Vote . . .Them. . .Out.
Unalienable rights are to be kept beyond the reach of even a majority vote, if they are truly unalienable. All you are doing in your social technocracy, is choosing to submit to a different set of masters in the name of “unity”. Masters who can’t tell YOU and your needs apart from a statistic or a poll (such as the stats on economic freedom you keep citing).
You, like I and nearly all of the Western world, have grown up with social technocracy – often called social democracy, but technocracy is a better descriptor – as the norm. I think that is why many don’t see how vulnerable they are in their submission to it. It took me nearly fifty years to perceive how it leads to a banality of decline, where we keep repeating the same top-down approaches in the pursuit of different results … the definition of insanity … as those who mouth conservative platitudes can’t make a coherent and convincing case as to why they should be adopted, even as common sense leads one to the coherent/convincing case: these alleged elites don’t know YOU well enough to micromanage your life the way they seek to do in the name of the “common good”.
Let me make it clear, I do not view Trump as a Messiah … the One I already have is sufficient. I view Trump like Johnny Rico’s superiors in the cinematic Starship Troopers viewed Johnny: “You have the job, until you’re killed or I find someone better.” And at this time, I don’t see anyone better in terms of respecting me as a free man, and expecting me to take the responsibility to get through life making my own decisions.
Look closely, and you will see that the governance in the Western world is dominated by those who value the reputation of their technocratic institutions and/or civility, more than they value the liberty of their people. Even in your own nation. Otherwise, your leaders would not have tried to isolate you from the rest of the world over COVID.
Andrew, I will say this … that your nation is fortunate that they don’t already have a NZ NASA that would see Rocket Lab as encroaching on their technocratic turf.
The question is … how long will it be, before your leadership finds a reason to engage in such encroachment, as we are seeing some attempt here outside of NASA, via lawsuits and the FAA, to impose their view of the world upon SpaceX?
What is stopping them from such overreach?
Just because they haven’t engaged in it (yet), doesn’t mean that such encroachment is not a threat … all it takes is changing a few people with a different agenda.
The price of freedom is vigilance, “inalienable rights” (whatever that’s supposed to mean) has nothing to do with it.
I’m not a fan of the dead governing, the living should stand up for themselves.
We are not isolated from the rest of the world, are you not part of “the rest of the world” from my perspective? Any kiwi can travel overseas whenever they want.
The trolls have managed to distract everyone here from the original topic of the Wuhan flu Charlie Foxtrot.
It wasn’t lockdowns that reduced the number of diagnosed infections, it was contact tracing. Locking down the uninfected was just a successful power play over citizens that are now amenable to tyranny. They gave up liberty for security and now have neither, as they are still afraid of the flu and are still being controlled.
It wasn’t lockdowns that reduced the number of diagnosed infections, it was contact tracing.
NZ went into lockdown 13 days ago after a case of Delta from Australia got through the system, cases climbed to a peak of 83 yesterday, down to 53 new cases today, a total of 547 community cases in that time. Cases had built steadily through to yesterdays peak.
The new cases are almost entirely household contacts of existing cases. The lockdown has stopped transmission between household almost completely. In so doing, those doing the contact tracing have been able to get ahead of the spread, advise those that are at risk of having been exposed to the disease that they may be infected and infectious. Without the lockdown those possibly infected people would have carried on their usual routines and likely have passed the infection along. Pre-symptomatic transmission, especially with this Delta strain – which has far higher viral counts in the upper respiratory system – has been the primary means of transmission during this outbreak. Put simply: people were spreading the virus without even knowing they themselves were infected.
Testing of people in the infected areas has been extensive with hundreds of thousands of tests taken along side the contact tracing to ring fence the outbreak.
The difference between a no lockdown and a lockdown is the difference between legally enforceable road rules and optional road rules, while 90% of people, especially the little old ladies, might stick to the rules if optional, it’s the 10% that don’t that ruin it for everyone else. With covid it’s even worse than that because there are lots of younger people who think it’s nothing, or at least nothing to them, the on road equivalent to having the drunks driving Mack trucks – with no penalties if their actions lead to other people deaths.
It would be really nice if the spread could be eliminated without lockdowns, I don’t think it’s possible, the virus doesn’t play to those rules, NZ has eliminated it 3 times from the community over the last 18 months.
Voluntary social distancing can slow the spread, of that there’s no doubt, but slowing it is all that’s happened. Likely in most countries successful lockdowns were never an option, poverty, urban density, multiple jurisdictions without the same borders and international contacts that could not in practical terms suspended making elimination not an option.
Two clarifications to above comment, when I said “new cases” I mean cases in the last week, especially in the last few days.
When I say “successful lockdowns were never an option” for most countries, I mean as a method for eliminating the virus, lockdowns have been successful in getting R well below 1.
Andrew believes it was different during the Reagan Era…when Americans weren’t pitted against each other…Harumph! We can lay blame at Obama’s feet, and the rest of the spineless in any of the lettered agencies, now can’t we and especially the D’s who want you to believe in the absurd –even as they parade behind the scenes without masks and tell you to wear them? Because they sought to destroy the man elected to clean the swamp in order to hide their own transgressions and not a single one of them has ever, EVER been held to account. Was Trump right about HCQ? Yes. Was he right that we should have isolated the at risk? Yes. Was he right to stop travel overseas? Yes. And did he not get the Warp Speed going so that all of you out there living in fear as Karens and Kens would have protection? Yes. The problem is the the goal posts are continually shimmied as if no one will notice. They- the power hungry seek only to have conformity, not compliance. Their my body, my choice mantra gone, because if you don’t want the jab? “YOU” are responsible for killing people or spreading the disease. “YOU” are selfsih. Nope. Not falling for that [deleted].
You see, I have done enough research to know that there is a reason why SARS Sudden Accute Respriatory Syndrome viruses are not eradicated. “Get the shot…remember Polio, Measles, blah, blah, blah.” In many animal studies, it is the spike proteins that are killing the subjects…the animals. All you have to do it read for yourself. This is why natural immunity is the Trump Card. Your body initiates the immune response for all cells, unlike the jabs only giving pieces. And that is exactly why the jabbed are getting sick because the jab only partially protects. ADE anyone? Go ahead and look it up. Read Robert Malone, Robert Redfield, Frontline Docs and others.
I love how the CDC stopped counting breakthrough infections, pretending it’s rare, but I can give you 10 people I know who are jabbed and have it. I have Corona right now and I am not vaccinated. I believed in it for the at-risk. I do not believe in it for kids, young adults or my age…57 and healthy.
If you believe yourself morally superior to me because “YOU” are jabbed. Oh well. You swallowed the fear and have decided to hate me for my choice. You do you, and I will be me. Either way, we’re all getting this thing and none of us will make it out of here, alive in the bigger picture, will we?
I was heavy with fatigue, but here is how I treated myself:
1. Pulse Oximeter on hand (lower than 90 and I would be seen).
2. Quercetin 500mg per day
3. 2 aspirin twice a day
4. Motrin for fevers or body aches if you have them
5. 1 glass of fluid every hour
6. Treat nasal congestion with Mucinex D (guafenisen and dextrmethorphan for cough and to dry up mucous)
7. If your O2 sats are down…low 90’s and you have a nebulizer…by all means, give yourself a treatment.
The Binax Test shows 84% accuracy compared to the original PCR….which I used.
DefendUSA: Your comment went into moderation because you had an obscenity in it, childishly hidden with one asterisk. That doesn’t fly, and I have deleted it. You are very welcome to comment here, but please follow the rules.
DefendUSA: Gee, it sounds like you had the flu, and treated it like we have always treated someone who gets the flu.
The one lack in your treatment was not using one of several well-known medicines that appear to help mitigate the Wuhan flu’s worst symptoms. Their positive effect remains somewhat unproven, but they have been approved for human use for quite awhile, and are known to be safe to use. No harm in adding them to the mix.
DefendUSA, thank you for your reply.
If you believe yourself morally superior to me because . . .
I don’t, I try to look at this in pragmatic terms, not ideological or moralistic terms.
Mr. Zimmerman- Sorry for the profanity, as I know the rules. I got overly zealous and did not proof my work. Apologies.
I did treat it as the flu.
Coming in late, here, but do people really think that politics was genteel during the ’80s? Does nobody remember the breathless accusations constantly hurled against Reagan? Or the stream of propaganda pieces predicting that the “Nuclear Cowboy” would get the world wiped out (see: The Day After, Threads, et. al.)? The constant denunciations of his mental capacity? And then there’s the ’70s (which really began in 1968); don’t even get me started on the ’70s.
You have to go back to pre-Wilsonian days to get away from the constant attacks by socialists of whatever stripe against their opponents–and only then because they hadn’t really caught on in the US before then (and, of course, there were plenty of *other* reasons for politicians and journalists to sling mud and make up lies back then, but at least the federal government had a lot less power to bother anyone who just wanted to live their life out in peace and privacy). To the extent that there was respect across the aisle in the ’80s, it generally involved either bipartisan pork, or Blue Dog Democrats (most of whom either retired, were defeated, or switched parties after the 1994 mini-revolution).
It seems to me that the past is being reinvented before our eyes (“He who controls the past, controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past.”). We’ve seen exactly the same thing every election cycle for decades: the current Republican candidate is Hitler reborn, a racist and misogynist who is out to “put y’all in chains”, is in bed with billionaire businessmen, and has no redeeming values whatsoever… unlike the *previous* candidate, who is suddenly enjoying a strange new respect (due to the fact that the previous candidate is no longer an obstacle in the neo-feudalists’ path). Trump might prove to be an exception, because he’s remained vocal and active, but if he doesn’t run, I would not be entirely shocked to see journalists writing hit pieces on the eventual candidate claiming how much “worse” they are than Trump, who will suddenly be considered “not all that bad”.
A. Nonymous
There are plenty of studies that reach the same conclusion as these:
https://www.lakesideohio.com/assets/documents/WhySoMuchPolarization.pdf
https://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/look-how-far-weve-come-apart/