Webb finds another galaxy in early universe that should not exist
The uncertainty of science: Scientists using the Webb Space Telescope have identified another galaxy about 12 billion light years away and only about 1.7 billion years after the theorized Big Bang that is too rich in chemicals as well as too active in star formation to have had time to form.
SPT0418-SE is believed to have already hosted multiple generations of stars, despite its young age. Both of the galaxies have a mature metallicity — or large amounts of elements like carbon, oxygen and nitrogen that are heavier than hydrogen and helium — which is similar to the sun. However, our sun is 4.5 billion years old and inherited most of its metals from previous generations of stars that were eight billion years old, the researchers said.
In other words, this galaxy somehow obtained complex elements in only 1.7 billion years that in our galaxy took twelve billion years, something that defies all theories of galactic and stellar evolution. Either the Big Bang did not happen when it did, or all theories about the growth and development of galaxies are wrong.
One could reasonably argue that this particular observation might be mistaken, except that it is not the only one from Webb that shows similar data. Webb’s infrared data is challenging the fundamentals of all cosmology, developed by theorists over the past half century.
On Christmas Eve 1968 three Americans became the first humans to visit another world. What they did to celebrate was unexpected and profound, and will be remembered throughout all human history. Genesis: the Story of Apollo 8, Robert Zimmerman's classic history of humanity's first journey to another world, tells that story, and it is now available as both an ebook and an audiobook, both with a foreword by Valerie Anders and a new introduction by Robert Zimmerman.
The ebook is available everywhere for $5.99 (before discount) at amazon, or direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit. If you buy it from ebookit you don't support the big tech companies and the author gets a bigger cut much sooner.
The audiobook is also available at all these vendors, and is also free with a 30-day trial membership to Audible.
"Not simply about one mission, [Genesis] is also the history of America's quest for the moon... Zimmerman has done a masterful job of tying disparate events together into a solid account of one of America's greatest human triumphs."--San Antonio Express-News
The uncertainty of science: Scientists using the Webb Space Telescope have identified another galaxy about 12 billion light years away and only about 1.7 billion years after the theorized Big Bang that is too rich in chemicals as well as too active in star formation to have had time to form.
SPT0418-SE is believed to have already hosted multiple generations of stars, despite its young age. Both of the galaxies have a mature metallicity — or large amounts of elements like carbon, oxygen and nitrogen that are heavier than hydrogen and helium — which is similar to the sun. However, our sun is 4.5 billion years old and inherited most of its metals from previous generations of stars that were eight billion years old, the researchers said.
In other words, this galaxy somehow obtained complex elements in only 1.7 billion years that in our galaxy took twelve billion years, something that defies all theories of galactic and stellar evolution. Either the Big Bang did not happen when it did, or all theories about the growth and development of galaxies are wrong.
One could reasonably argue that this particular observation might be mistaken, except that it is not the only one from Webb that shows similar data. Webb’s infrared data is challenging the fundamentals of all cosmology, developed by theorists over the past half century.
On Christmas Eve 1968 three Americans became the first humans to visit another world. What they did to celebrate was unexpected and profound, and will be remembered throughout all human history. Genesis: the Story of Apollo 8, Robert Zimmerman's classic history of humanity's first journey to another world, tells that story, and it is now available as both an ebook and an audiobook, both with a foreword by Valerie Anders and a new introduction by Robert Zimmerman.
The ebook is available everywhere for $5.99 (before discount) at amazon, or direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit. If you buy it from ebookit you don't support the big tech companies and the author gets a bigger cut much sooner.
The audiobook is also available at all these vendors, and is also free with a 30-day trial membership to Audible.
"Not simply about one mission, [Genesis] is also the history of America's quest for the moon... Zimmerman has done a masterful job of tying disparate events together into a solid account of one of America's greatest human triumphs."--San Antonio Express-News
There will be much moaning and wailing about how it just can’t be right. That all the theories might have to be tossed out the window! Actually this is classic ‘science’ in that new data/ideas invalidate or caused adjustments to what we thought we knew. Science is never ‘settled’. Maybe if they do have rethink things they might be able to toss out some dead wood or the fudge factors put in to make things work. Yes dark matter, I’m looking at you!
A bit off topic but related…. I wonder what a full scale, space radio telescope that can observe in the 30 mhz or below would hear/see? That’s a whole region where there hasn’t been a lot of work done I think because the ionosphere cuts about all of it off.
Let me know when they spot Milliways.
The results I was hoping for. That the new observations destroy the current kludges that pass for theories
“Big Bang Broke. Scientists are certain that the fudge factors need adjustment, but aren’t yet certain whether the problem is with one or more fudges or the factors involved …”
That we can’t even find 5% of the Universe is an indicator.
There could be Heaven, Hell & 3 Discworlds (times trillions) hidden within what we don’t know.
Roger Penrose has challenged the Big Bang dogma for quire a while; offering evidence for an universe in cyclical continuum. Reference youtube for his presentations. By far one, if not the most, brilliant, original, and accessible astrophysicist (and mathematician) on the planet.
Huh,
If they are looking at something 12 billion light years away. How can that even be.
That galaxy has since moved. It has had 12 billion years of “expanding universe” to MOVE. What we are seeing is something that was only 1.7 billion light years from the point where the Big Bang Singularity exploded and created the Universe.
So I went looking for something I had seen a long time ago and found it.
This
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6f/CMB_Timeline300_no_WMAP.jpg
It’s an image that shows that the Universe actually virtually stopped expanding at about 400 million years. The growth of the Universe for the next 13 billion years or so looks almost nil. when you consider the scale of time.
So from where we are physically I understand that we are seeing something way to the left end of that graphic.
That graphic presents the Universe as a flat disk expanding over time. Do we know where the center is? Do we know “Where” in relation to Earth the Big Bang happened?
this is really confusing
OKAY! sorry for two in a row.
This guy gave me the explanation. The Big Bang didn’t happen at a specific spot. It happened everywhere.
https://skyandtelescope.org/astronomy-news/cosmology/where-was-the-big-bang-located/
I could have known this with more thought, because I did know that the expansion of the Universe was NOT the galaxies moving away from each other but rather the expansion/creation of the more space in between them.
Here is his pullquote.
“The Big Bang happened everywhere at once. And everywhere started small and grew big.”
@Andrew M Winter,
The explanation that made the most sense to me was to imagine a bun with currents baking, the mass remains the same, but everything expands, the currents (galaxies) grow further away from each other over time, and there is no “center” , they simply grow further apart.
That said, I’m absolutely delighted that the James Webb is breaking current ( pun intended!) Theories… As has been mentioned, it is the very definition of science, propose a theory, then try your hardest to disprove it.
I have always been very skeptical of the whole “dark matter” and “dark energy” concepts taken as gospel. They were created as place holders until theory caught up with observation, but have become accepted as genuine facts.
This is how we learn, put aside any notions set in stone, and re-evaluate your thoughts and theories according to the evidence.
I’m loving the James Webb telescope!! ( And my they never let anyone change its bloody name!!)
The problem I have with the ‘space expansion’ theory is that there is space in between everything. So even the galaxies should be expanding at close to the same rate.
I also believe in a cyclic cosmos. Expansion contraction expansion and so on. If not then you must believe in a universe that came from nothing or the contact of two dimensions for example. And if that happened why can the contact not happen at any time and any place and in fact could happen right after the first contact in virtually the same place? Thus 2 Big Bangs from close to the same point. There should be huge amounts of matter passing through our space right now from other big bangs outside ours.
Andrew M Winter–
think of it like this– the ‘big bang’ was a moment in Time, not a location in Space.
and…..
“If the universe is only 14 billion years old, how can it be 92 billion light years wide?”
Dr. Lincoln at Fermilab (2020)
https://youtu.be/vIJTwYOZrGU
9:46
The universe is wider than it is old because it expands FASTER than the speed of light, or so the theory goes. 30 trillion meters/s only applies to photons inside the universe.
Not surprised at Webb’s discoveries. The theories of when the BB happened and how it evolved always seemed flimsy. The idea that the BB itself started as a singularity was never real since singularities don’t really exist in nature – the universe is finite. This is a problem too for theories explaining black holes. Science still can’t explain exactly what dark matter and dark energy are. It can’t explain the formation of super-massive black holes. It still can’t unify the standard model and general relativity. Nothing against theory, but should taken with many grains of salt.
Not surprised at the detection of metallic elements (bad term, not the same def as in chemistry) early on. Complex elements are mainly produced by huge stars that have very short lives that end in a supernova. These types are rare now, but may have been more prevalent in the early universe…