Firefly selling its rocket engines to Astra
Capitalism in space: It now appears that Firefly’s effort to diversify its rocket business by selling its Reaver rocket engine to other companies has resulted in it selling that engines to its competitor Astra, for possible use either in that company’s smallsat rocket or in an new redesigned rocket not yet revealed.
Under the [$30 million] deal, which closed earlier this year, Firefly will send up to 50 of its Reaver rocket engines to Astra’s rocket factory in Alameda, California, where a development engine was already delivered in late spring for roughly half a million dollars, according to an internal Firefly document viewed by The Verge and a person briefed on the agreement. Astra engineers have been picking apart the engine for detailed inspection, said a person familiar with the terms, who, like others involved in the deal, declined to speak on the record because of a strict non-disclosure agreement.
Apparently, the contract includes clauses that forbid Astra from using the engine in circumstances that directly compete with Firefly’s Alpha rocket.
The article also suggests that the contract will allow Astra to manufacture the engine itself, thus keeping its operations in-house and not dependent on outside contractors.
The deal suggests two things. First, it shows the growing strength of Firefly. It is not only going to make money launching satellites, it will also do so selling engines to other companies. Second, the deal suggests Astra has issues with its own rocket engine, and needs something better quickly to survive.
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Capitalism in space: It now appears that Firefly’s effort to diversify its rocket business by selling its Reaver rocket engine to other companies has resulted in it selling that engines to its competitor Astra, for possible use either in that company’s smallsat rocket or in an new redesigned rocket not yet revealed.
Under the [$30 million] deal, which closed earlier this year, Firefly will send up to 50 of its Reaver rocket engines to Astra’s rocket factory in Alameda, California, where a development engine was already delivered in late spring for roughly half a million dollars, according to an internal Firefly document viewed by The Verge and a person briefed on the agreement. Astra engineers have been picking apart the engine for detailed inspection, said a person familiar with the terms, who, like others involved in the deal, declined to speak on the record because of a strict non-disclosure agreement.
Apparently, the contract includes clauses that forbid Astra from using the engine in circumstances that directly compete with Firefly’s Alpha rocket.
The article also suggests that the contract will allow Astra to manufacture the engine itself, thus keeping its operations in-house and not dependent on outside contractors.
The deal suggests two things. First, it shows the growing strength of Firefly. It is not only going to make money launching satellites, it will also do so selling engines to other companies. Second, the deal suggests Astra has issues with its own rocket engine, and needs something better quickly to survive.
Readers!
Please consider supporting my work here at Behind the Black. Your support allows me the freedom and ability to analyze objectively the ongoing renaissance in space, as well as the cultural changes -- for good or ill -- that are happening across America. Fourteen years ago I wrote that SLS and Orion were a bad ideas, a waste of money, would be years behind schedule, and better replaced by commercial private enterprise. Only now does it appear that Washington might finally recognize this reality.
In 2020 when the world panicked over COVID I wrote that the panic was unnecessary, that the virus was apparently simply a variation of the flu, that masks were not simply pointless but if worn incorrectly were a health threat, that the lockdowns were a disaster and did nothing to stop the spread of COVID. Only in the past year have some of our so-called experts in the health field have begun to recognize these facts.
Your help allows me to do this kind of intelligent analysis. I take no advertising or sponsors, so my reporting isn't influenced by donations by established space or drug companies. Instead, I rely entirely on donations and subscriptions from my readers, which gives me the freedom to write what I think, unencumbered by outside influences.
You can support me either by giving a one-time contribution or a regular subscription. There are four ways of doing so:
1. Zelle: This is the only internet method that charges no fees. All you have to do is use the Zelle link at your internet bank and give my name and email address (zimmerman at nasw dot org). What you donate is what I get.
2. Patreon: Go to my website there and pick one of five monthly subscription amounts, or by making a one-time donation.
3. A Paypal Donation or subscription:
4. Donate by check, payable to Robert Zimmerman and mailed to
Behind The Black
c/o Robert Zimmerman
P.O.Box 1262
Cortaro, AZ 85652
You can also support me by buying one of my books, as noted in the boxes interspersed throughout the webpage or shown in the menu above.
This is still pretty cool. The startups are helping each other.
This is a strange thing. Why is Firefly selling its core technology to a competitor who will copy the engine technology over the long term, even if a protection agreement is in place? Elon Musk would never do that.
So far, Astra and Firefly do not compete directly. Astra puts 500 kg payloads into orbit, but Firefly puts heavier payloads into orbit. From the article:
Edward
One company wants to transport 500 kg and the other 1000 kg into orbit. Not a very big difference in the market offer.
I don’t strictly believe in contracts (or patents). Elon Musk doesn’t believe in patents either, for example.
The result here will be that Astra’s engineers will receive a high quality training program from FireFly on how to build better rocket engines. In the years to come, Astra will have engines that may be similar to those of FireFly, but are not exactly identical. It may be difficult to show in detail that a copyright has been infringed by Astra. FireFly strengthens its own competition. In the end the IP- agreements will be cleverly bypassed by Astra.
Questioner,
You wrote: “Elon Musk doesn’t believe in patents either, for example.”
SpaceX does not patent things that are not visible, which keeps proprietary technology secret longer than if they publish it in a patent. However, they do patent things that are visible, which would be strange behavior for a company that does not believe in patents.
“The result here will be that Astra’s engineers will receive a high quality training program from FireFly on how to build better rocket engines.”
Better engines, or different? Astra is using electric-pump fed engines called “Delphin” in its first stage, and from their Rocket 3.2 launch we know that they work up to orbit, so it may just be possible that Astra’s engineers know something about rocket engines and don’t need remedial educations. If you think that Astra’s recent failure means that the Delphin engine does not work well, let me remind you that Firefly’s engine also failed, so maybe Firefly’ engineers are no more knowledgeable than Astra’s engineers.
Stealing technology? You seem to think that all companies are as evil and untrustworthy as Microsoft.
Might be a little dated … and might be limited to his EV endeavor … but here’s Musk’s approach to patents back in 2014. Looks like he patents things … than chooses to open-source them as it suits him.
https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you
But yes, there are other things that he does not patent, to keep them out of sight of competitors.
In the context of SpaceX, competitors like … ahem … China.
… Harvard Business Review, “Elon Musk Doesn’t Care About Patents. Should You?” 04 March 2021