Firefly selling its rocket engines to Astra
Capitalism in space: It now appears that Firefly’s effort to diversify its rocket business by selling its Reaver rocket engine to other companies has resulted in it selling that engines to its competitor Astra, for possible use either in that company’s smallsat rocket or in an new redesigned rocket not yet revealed.
Under the [$30 million] deal, which closed earlier this year, Firefly will send up to 50 of its Reaver rocket engines to Astra’s rocket factory in Alameda, California, where a development engine was already delivered in late spring for roughly half a million dollars, according to an internal Firefly document viewed by The Verge and a person briefed on the agreement. Astra engineers have been picking apart the engine for detailed inspection, said a person familiar with the terms, who, like others involved in the deal, declined to speak on the record because of a strict non-disclosure agreement.
Apparently, the contract includes clauses that forbid Astra from using the engine in circumstances that directly compete with Firefly’s Alpha rocket.
The article also suggests that the contract will allow Astra to manufacture the engine itself, thus keeping its operations in-house and not dependent on outside contractors.
The deal suggests two things. First, it shows the growing strength of Firefly. It is not only going to make money launching satellites, it will also do so selling engines to other companies. Second, the deal suggests Astra has issues with its own rocket engine, and needs something better quickly to survive.
On Christmas Eve 1968 three Americans became the first humans to visit another world. What they did to celebrate was unexpected and profound, and will be remembered throughout all human history. Genesis: the Story of Apollo 8, Robert Zimmerman's classic history of humanity's first journey to another world, tells that story, and it is now available as both an ebook and an audiobook, both with a foreword by Valerie Anders and a new introduction by Robert Zimmerman.
The ebook is available everywhere for $5.99 (before discount) at amazon, or direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit. If you buy it from ebookit you don't support the big tech companies and the author gets a bigger cut much sooner.
The audiobook is also available at all these vendors, and is also free with a 30-day trial membership to Audible.
"Not simply about one mission, [Genesis] is also the history of America's quest for the moon... Zimmerman has done a masterful job of tying disparate events together into a solid account of one of America's greatest human triumphs."--San Antonio Express-News
Capitalism in space: It now appears that Firefly’s effort to diversify its rocket business by selling its Reaver rocket engine to other companies has resulted in it selling that engines to its competitor Astra, for possible use either in that company’s smallsat rocket or in an new redesigned rocket not yet revealed.
Under the [$30 million] deal, which closed earlier this year, Firefly will send up to 50 of its Reaver rocket engines to Astra’s rocket factory in Alameda, California, where a development engine was already delivered in late spring for roughly half a million dollars, according to an internal Firefly document viewed by The Verge and a person briefed on the agreement. Astra engineers have been picking apart the engine for detailed inspection, said a person familiar with the terms, who, like others involved in the deal, declined to speak on the record because of a strict non-disclosure agreement.
Apparently, the contract includes clauses that forbid Astra from using the engine in circumstances that directly compete with Firefly’s Alpha rocket.
The article also suggests that the contract will allow Astra to manufacture the engine itself, thus keeping its operations in-house and not dependent on outside contractors.
The deal suggests two things. First, it shows the growing strength of Firefly. It is not only going to make money launching satellites, it will also do so selling engines to other companies. Second, the deal suggests Astra has issues with its own rocket engine, and needs something better quickly to survive.
On Christmas Eve 1968 three Americans became the first humans to visit another world. What they did to celebrate was unexpected and profound, and will be remembered throughout all human history. Genesis: the Story of Apollo 8, Robert Zimmerman's classic history of humanity's first journey to another world, tells that story, and it is now available as both an ebook and an audiobook, both with a foreword by Valerie Anders and a new introduction by Robert Zimmerman.
The ebook is available everywhere for $5.99 (before discount) at amazon, or direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit. If you buy it from ebookit you don't support the big tech companies and the author gets a bigger cut much sooner.
The audiobook is also available at all these vendors, and is also free with a 30-day trial membership to Audible.
"Not simply about one mission, [Genesis] is also the history of America's quest for the moon... Zimmerman has done a masterful job of tying disparate events together into a solid account of one of America's greatest human triumphs."--San Antonio Express-News
This is still pretty cool. The startups are helping each other.
This is a strange thing. Why is Firefly selling its core technology to a competitor who will copy the engine technology over the long term, even if a protection agreement is in place? Elon Musk would never do that.
So far, Astra and Firefly do not compete directly. Astra puts 500 kg payloads into orbit, but Firefly puts heavier payloads into orbit. From the article:
Edward
One company wants to transport 500 kg and the other 1000 kg into orbit. Not a very big difference in the market offer.
I don’t strictly believe in contracts (or patents). Elon Musk doesn’t believe in patents either, for example.
The result here will be that Astra’s engineers will receive a high quality training program from FireFly on how to build better rocket engines. In the years to come, Astra will have engines that may be similar to those of FireFly, but are not exactly identical. It may be difficult to show in detail that a copyright has been infringed by Astra. FireFly strengthens its own competition. In the end the IP- agreements will be cleverly bypassed by Astra.
Questioner,
You wrote: “Elon Musk doesn’t believe in patents either, for example.”
SpaceX does not patent things that are not visible, which keeps proprietary technology secret longer than if they publish it in a patent. However, they do patent things that are visible, which would be strange behavior for a company that does not believe in patents.
“The result here will be that Astra’s engineers will receive a high quality training program from FireFly on how to build better rocket engines.”
Better engines, or different? Astra is using electric-pump fed engines called “Delphin” in its first stage, and from their Rocket 3.2 launch we know that they work up to orbit, so it may just be possible that Astra’s engineers know something about rocket engines and don’t need remedial educations. If you think that Astra’s recent failure means that the Delphin engine does not work well, let me remind you that Firefly’s engine also failed, so maybe Firefly’ engineers are no more knowledgeable than Astra’s engineers.
Stealing technology? You seem to think that all companies are as evil and untrustworthy as Microsoft.
Might be a little dated … and might be limited to his EV endeavor … but here’s Musk’s approach to patents back in 2014. Looks like he patents things … than chooses to open-source them as it suits him.
https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you
But yes, there are other things that he does not patent, to keep them out of sight of competitors.
In the context of SpaceX, competitors like … ahem … China.
… Harvard Business Review, “Elon Musk Doesn’t Care About Patents. Should You?” 04 March 2021