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If election issues are not fixed, elected state Republicans must refuse to certify

The Preamble to the Constitution

The Constitution is very clear: The actual decision on who should be elected President of the United States every four years is actually made by the state legislatures.

Article II, Section 1, Paragraph 2: Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled to the Congress.

12th Amendment: The Electors shall meet in their respective states and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President. … The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed.

In other words, the state legislatures choose the Electors, and only when they are chosen can they vote for President. Furthermore, the winner must win a majority from the expected number of total Electors from all the states, which is presently 270. If not, the vote then goes to the House of Representatives in Congress, which votes not by each representative but by state, with each state’s caucus voting separately to determine the state’s vote (as per the 12th Amendment).

American tradition however for almost two centuries has been for these legislatures to let the popular vote of the state guide them on who to pick as Electors. If their citizens choose the Republican candidate, they picked Republican Electors so their states Electoral votes go to that candidate. If the citizens choose a Democrat, they did the same.

It is because of this tradition that we all assume the popular vote makes the choice. It really does not.

For two centuries, this system worked because everyone trusted the election process. While some fraud has always occurred at some level, at the federal level the counts have generally been carefully done and reliably tabulated. Even in the difficult election battle in 2000 it was clear that the effort was to get the actual count right, by both sides.

This trust is now gone. The number of errors, suspicious actions, and indications of fraud, all designed to steal votes from Donald Trump and give extra votes to Joe Biden, makes every single one of the contested elections in the battleground states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin unreliable. Let’s take a look a just a small sampling of recent stories from each state, detailing rampant election fraud.

Pennsylvania (State Legislature controlled by Republicans)

Michigan (State Legislature controlled by Republicans)

Wisconsin (State Legislature controlled by Republicans)

Georgia (State Legislature controlled by Republicans)

On addition, there is the very questionable software used in all of these states.

The stories above are only a tiny sampling of the numerous news articles published by numerous news sources in the past two weeks, all raising serious questions about the results in all these states.

It is the obligation of the election boards of each of these states to deal with all of these issues, to fix them, and to recount the votes after having made sure all illegal or illegitimate votes have been disqualified and that the software they use has been audited and is definitely recording the results accurately.

If they do this and the results still give Joe Biden these victories, then so be it. We will know we had a legitimate election.

If these election bureaucracies however fail to do this, or refuse, or attempt it but do an unsatisfactory job, it will then be the obligation of their Republican-controlled legislatures, as representatives of the people who elected them, to refuse to accept these untrustworthy election results. The elected officials need to tell their election boards they will not certify any election results, under any condition, until these problems are resolved.

This is exactly what the writers of the Constitution had intended. It is wholly possible to fake many election ballots and defraud an election. It is impossible to do this at the legislature level. The Founding Fathers feared the rule of the mob, and wanted the legislatures to act as a control on that mob rule.

Nor is this an improper power grab. It is merely demanding that the popular vote be counted fairly, correctly, and without error. Any resistance by Democrats to that demand will prove the Democrats do not want a fair, correct, and error-free election count. They want the results faked, and have probably cheated in each of these states.

Faced with unreliable election results, the state legislatures in these disputed states have two choices. These Republican-controlled state legislatures could simply throw out the questionable election results and pick Electors for the Electoral College who represent their choice for President, which would mean they pick Donald Trump. While this might seem like they are defying the voters of their states, if the election results have been faked by Democrats and the Democrats refuse to help fix the problems, then these Republican legislatures are within their rights to reject the results. In fact, they are obliged to represent the people who voted them into office, and prevent the election from being stolen.

Nonetheless, choosing Electors to vote contrary to the disputed results is very risky politically, and does run counter to two centuries of American tradition.

A more appropriate political choice would be to simply refuse to pick any Electors at all, because they have no idea who to pick based on the questionable and unknowable election results. By doing this they place the decision of picking the President in the hands of the House of Representatives, the one federal body the Founding Fathers created to act as representatives of the nation’s entire citizenry. It is, as they said, the People’s legislature.

At first glance this might appear a cop-out, but in truth it would demonstrate the state legislatures’ willingness to represent their citizens. In every one of these states it appears a fraud was perpetrated on the electorate, and most especially on the majority that voted for Trump. And in every one of these states, the voters chose Republicans as the majority to represent them in their state legislatures. Refusing to accept a defective election count that goes counter to the will of that state’s majority is the only correct thing to do.

Moreover, in the end picking the Presidency is a federal concern. Allowing the federal House to make the decision seems proper and appropriate.

Either way, the time has arrived for these elected state Republicans to finally prove they are true representatives of the voters who put them in office. In the past decade the American public has increasingly chosen to give Republicans more control at the state level. In the election that just concluded, that pattern continued, with statehouse Republicans gaining ground nationwide, even in Democratic Party strongholds in the Northeast.

It is time these elected State officials showed some spine and truly represented their voters. They must withstand the ugly onslaught of the Democratic Party and its collaborators in the media and do what is appropriate. They must refuse to back down. They must insist that the problems with their election counts be resolved to the satisfaction of all voters, or they must reject these fraudulent election results entirely, either by letting the Republicans in the House choose, or by choosing themselves.

If they do this, Trump will remain President. It is also very possible that the states that are totally controlled by the Democratic Party on the west coast, on the northeast, and in Illinois, will then revolt. At that point they may choose to secede, as the southern states did in 1860 when they rejected Abraham Lincoln’s election.

It will then be up to the rest of the country to decide whether to let them go, or to do as the north did in 1860, marshal military force to prevent them from leaving. I choose the later, but that is not the question of the moment.

Right now, the important issue is the election itself. The Republicans need to act like they really represent the people who voted them into power, and reject these corrupted and fraudulent election results, demanding the problems be fixed or the elections will be discarded.

Conscious Choice cover

Now available in hardback and paperback as well as ebook!


From the press release: In this ground-breaking new history of early America, historian Robert Zimmerman not only exposes the lie behind The New York Times 1619 Project that falsely claims slavery is central to the history of the United States, he also provides profound lessons about the nature of human societies, lessons important for Americans today as well as for all future settlers on Mars and elsewhere in space.

Conscious Choice: The origins of slavery in America and why it matters today and for our future in outer space, is a riveting page-turning story that documents how slavery slowly became pervasive in the southern British colonies of North America, colonies founded by a people and culture that not only did not allow slavery but in every way were hostile to the practice.  
Conscious Choice does more however. In telling the tragic history of the Virginia colony and the rise of slavery there, Zimmerman lays out the proper path for creating healthy societies in places like the Moon and Mars.


“Zimmerman’s ground-breaking history provides every future generation the basic framework for establishing new societies on other worlds. We would be wise to heed what he says.” —Robert Zubrin, founder of founder of the Mars Society.


All editions are available at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and all book vendors, with the ebook priced at $5.99 before discount. The ebook can also be purchased direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit, in which case you don't support the big tech companies and I get a bigger cut much sooner.


Autographed printed copies are also available at discount directly from me (hardback $24.95; paperback $14.95; Shipping cost for either: $5.00). Just email me at zimmerman @ nasw dot org.


  • LocalFluff

    Oops, here’s a “memory card” with over 2,000 votes that haven’t been counted. Oops, here’s another one! What do the guys in Frankfurt say?

    Germanic people have voted for many thousands of years. One goes to the town sqyare, or to a hill near your village, and you vote yay or nay.
    You Americans need to do three things now:
    1) Scrap this humiliating failure of yours.
    2) Learn from any of the countries that have been a democracy since thousands of years how to hold an election.
    3) Hold a real election (without any kind of machinery involved),

    Are you all completely stupid or something? You vote. Then you count the votes. 1, 2, 3… you know? Where I live, there could be a total global nuclear war together with the return of the black death plague, no electricity, no phones, no fuel and that wouldn’t affect the voting process the slightest in any way. Because we’ve done it the same way since long before electrification and the invention of phones of motors. Because it is so extremely simple! Elementary school pupils could handle it all flawlessly.

    What complete idiots came up with the idea of using any kind of machine in the election process? All such individuals must be locked up for long time, or better be put in the electric chair.

  • Cotour

    Local, then how could they cheat?

    Silly naive Swede.

  • David

    “Article II, Section 1, Paragraph 2: Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct”

    “such Manner”. The legislature doesn’t chose the electors each presidential election, they chose HOW the electors will be chosen, and once they’ve chosen, that choice stands until a later legislature decides to change it. The legislature of California could, for example, decide that henceforth the states electors will be first n names from the most recent report of maximum donations to the democrat party prior to the election, and that would be perfectly legal.

  • Call Me Ishmael

    “if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed.”

    It sounds to me that if fewer Electors are “appointed”, the number required for a majority also goes down. So keeping Biden from getting 270 wouldn’t be enough.

    Regrettably, I also think David above is right. The legislatures of all those states have passed laws saying that presidential electors will be chosen by popular vote. I don’t think they get to turn on a dime now, even though there is ample reason to think the popular vote has been horribly corrupted.

  • @ LocalFluff:

    I cannot take ‘ownership’ of a response to your comments, because this is not my blog, but I thank you for them. Americans, are not, in fact, stupid: popular portrayal to the contrary. I know that Congress can count to at least a Trillion. (I’m smiling when I say this).

    You ever notice how complications and strife, and generally making simple things hard, comes from one political perspective?

    Now why would that be?

  • David

    David above is correct. A slate of electors is chosen by each party for its candidate in each state.

    The certification process each state undertakes prior to the state’s Secretary of State pronouncement is going to find the level of fraud Mr. Zimmerman and oh so many others allege.

    That combined with the legal apparatus afforded the candidates prior to certification has and is going to continue to work. As Trump’s teams of attorneys (those few remaining that haven’t withdrawn from representing him), are finding out, you can’t just present allegations of fraud. There actually has to be a “there” there. That, and the number of votes PROVEN to be fraudulent must be a number of size that would affect the outcome.

    Remember Mr. Zimmerman, you said that everyone should wait and see what turns up. Thus far, in state after state, Trump’s fantasy’s of massive fraud are not matching up to the facts.

  • David wrote: “Thus far, in state after state, Trump’s fantasy’s of massive fraud are not matching up to the facts.”

    Whether or not the fraudulent vote is enough to make a difference isn’t the point, it’s the integrity of the election process that is at stake. I believe that was the point of the post: US election integrity used to be unassailable. That hasn’t been true for at least 20 years, and is a shaming disgrace to us as a people. Again; one political party was almost entirely responsible for this. What say you, sir?

  • Bkivey:

    I’m certainly not an elections guru, but my observation is that the number of votes in question, the allegation(s) that call those votes into question, subsequent investigation findings (be that recounts, audits, court decisions on challenges etc.) and the margin of victory impact define “integrity.”

    On which political party is primarily responsible my guess is its Democrats since they control most of the large city governments. But that’s a guess, I’ve never studied the issue. That said, I still believe our election integrity is holding. Weakening these last twenty years I agree. Ask me again after January 20th, 2021.

    As fate would have it, as I am pecking out this reply, I heard in the background that Trump has this evening fired Christopher Krebs, the now former director of Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency at DHS.

    He was fired for telling the truth.

    Trump is just so dreadful. He would be getting ready to settle into a second term as a popular president if not for his impulses. And his tweeting.

    Good health to you and yours.

  • As everyone can see, David doesn’t care that more than seventy million Americans have real doubts about the integrity of the election process. To him, he “still believes our election integrity process is holding.”

    He sure doesn’t seem that concerned about the evidence of election fraud, including many legal witness affidavits citing incidents of fraud during the vote. Rather than address these issues and fix them, he prefers to make believe they didn’t happen.

    Why is that? Could it be he hates Trump so much that he is willing to look the other way so that Trump can be defeated, even as our most priceless right, the right to vote, is destroyed? It sure seems so.

    The sad part is that he isn’t much different then most Democratic Party partisans. Victory is all, by any means necessary.

  • LocalFluff

    The secretary of the legislature of Michigan could simply tell the Congress that 105% of the legislature has voted to appoint only Republican electors. If that is fake, who cares? Nothing can be done against it anyway. That a single secretary single-handedly just makes up what the legislature decides and what laws it makes and what laws there are, well, so be it then.

    Actually, simpler is it if a secretary of the Congress the day before the electors cast their votes, announces that Trump has been re-elected by 538-0. At least David here wouldn’t see any kind of problem with that and would accept it without a second thought.

  • Andrew_W

    Mr. Zimmerman: David doesn’t care that more than seventy million Americans have real doubts about the integrity of the election process.
    From what I can see from David’s comment that accusation is a strawman. I have concerns that tens of millions of Americans have such doubts, not because those doubts are well founded, but because democracy works when the population respects the process. My hope is that over the next month or so the processes to verify the vote will be followed and that the overwhelming majority of Americans will be satisfied that the end result is the correct result. I doubt though that you’ll be included in that number, your drive to believe what suits you is too great, as you’ve demonstrated on so many highly partisan issues.

    Could it be he hates Trump so much that he is willing to look the other way so that Trump can be defeated, even as our most priceless right, the right to vote, is destroyed? It sure seems so.

    Looks like you hate Democrats so much that you’ll buy any outlandish theory about their supposed evilness if it serves your own beliefs.

    What’ll almost certainly happen over the next few week is that the courts will continue to find the Trump legal teams claims without foundation, people will accept the results and in January Biden will be sworn in. Then in November 2024 there’ll be another Presidential election.

    The emotions I’m seeing are like those of adolescents, people too immature to understand that being dumped isn’t the end of the world. The Sun will still rise in the morning.

  • LocalFluff

    What is a site where one votes called in English? I want official data from each such site, not just by county that is easy to find. Does anyone here know a good site to access such data for battleground states?

    Statistical analysis will reveal whether there has been cheating or not, and I’d like to have a look at it to freshen up som old math knowledge.

  • wayne

    –can’t help you with current data-sets from any place I trust.
    (Generally, elections are administered under the Secretary of State, of the respective State.)

    ->for historical data however, MIT has a bit, generally from 1976-2018

  • Andi

    In English, the site where one votes is called a “polling place”; at least it is here.

  • Cotour

    In the era of Trump all will be revealed.

    Trump not being a cookie cutter politician and in fact being a true leader, two very different human beings, is an unfamiliar model for most every living American, they have never seen such a political animal in modern history and are uncomfortable with it. The closest modern example to this kind of politician is Ronald Reagan. And even Reagan ultimately comes in second compared to Trump and the positive consequence for the American people and the preservation of our way of life and the Constitution that he delivers. Not promises, but delivers. Hands down.

    Knee jerk Left leaning life long media programmed every day Democrat voter: “I don’t like Trump he is not a “normal” president. I want a “Normal” president!”. Thats the point! A politically “Normal” president is your worst enemy America. That is what has sold you out for the last 50 years and has delivered you to the door step of Socialism, defund the police, open borders, no property, and the surrendering of your freedom that you take for granted. Your freedom is not as you might believe and just exists for you to enjoy. Your American flavor of freedom is a rare item and must be fought for.

    (Trump is the surgeon that specializes in the life saving surgery that you desperately need, and you happen to personally despise him. And that is a purely subjective, ignorant and selfish perspective. You still need the surgery and he is equipped and willing to do it even though you personally despise him. HE DOES NOT CARE! And neither do I.)

    To not be able to step back and get out of what is your programmed political comfort zone and understand that you have your entire life, if you are of a particular kind of mind, been trained to think in a manner that is able to be manipulated and leveraged by individuals and political interests that would do that manipulating and leveraging to acquire and retain their political power. Period, its the nature of the beast.

    And the overly sensitive and emotional and “Compassionate” people like David and others please do not even attempt to argue this point. People like you through your “B” type orientation are a danger to yourself and all who surround you.

    In the era of Trump his loss OR his win in this presidential election in 2020 will be Trumpian. Never quitting or conceding will prevail one way or another.

    If you want to get a better read about what is going on in the minds of those who are warriors for this cause I suggest you watch War Room on Youtube, I believe its on live today at 10 AM eastern time.

  • Cotour

    One more point: I heard someone the other day and they said something that made perfect sense to me.

    “Take Trump seriously, not literally”.

    The “extra” bonus verbiage that issues forth from Trumps lips is just a process of the entrepreneurial mind. The practiced politician is always being being cagey, always looking to pacify in order to move unproductively into the future, usually with THEIR self interest and power as the primary driver. An entrepreneur and what goes on in their mind is not the same and Trumps over speak and his massaging of his ego here and there is just a part of this process.

    The two are not the same and those who do not understand this point see the over speak as deception or “lies”, and that is not so. Trump and people like him are always calculating for a goal identified and is always moving towards it once identified. This goal oriented thought process becomes an obsession or a vision that must be manifested. And the manifestation is the reward. That is the entrepreneurs drug.

    The politician is rewarded when they are able to acquire empowerment and power over others. That is their drug.

  • David


    Thank you so much for your comments above. You got the intent of my comments and I agree Mr. Zimmerman’s reaction is a strawman.

    Truth be known that here in America, I’m even worse than a Democrat.

    I’m a life long Republican who will not close my eyes and bite my tongue over actions by our President that bother me. And his inaction on subjects that I think can’t be solved without everyone on this planet being willing to work together to address.

    Trump’s popularity amongst Republicans is north of 85-90% which makes for lots of interesting diatribes that get launched my way.

    Good health to you and yours.

  • David


    Do you actually believe everything you espouse when it comes to Trump? If so, I genuinely hope you’ll consider approaching him for a job as a spokesperson. You are loads better at it than anyone who has served him as a Press Secretary during these long 3 1/2 years.

    Good health to you and yours.

  • Cotour


    Something I agree with you on.

    I know what I am talking about and am willing to hash it all out with you or anyone else if or when you ever feel you are up to it.

    You are what I would classify as a RINO, right in line with the likes of the moralist, Mit Romney.

  • David

    Mr. Zimmerman:

    You have an amazing way of seeing the exact opposite of what I’m conveying in my comments about our current President. It is possible to object to Trump without hating the man, being a Democrat or be willing to destroy our country to have him depart.

    Indeed, one after another of Trump’s allegations about fraud are being rejected by the courts and proven untrue by post-election reviews by election officials in state by state as they canvas their state’s election results.

    But, the process is still incomplete. As you said in the beginning, we need to wait till all reviews have been completed. That was good advise. I withhold final judgement till the process is complete.

    I thought you were going to do the same?

  • David

    Mr. Z – I apologize. I meant to close my comment with a wish for you and yours good health sir.

    Hit the post button too fast!

  • David: And you keep proving my points. You really don’t seem bothered in the slightest at all the allegations, all taking place in Democratic Party strongholds, or in software created apparently by Democratic Party partisans. Not bothered in the least.

    I meanwhile have made it very clear, multiple times, that while I am terribly concerned about the count, if it could be verified properly I would accept any winner, Trump or Biden. The problem is that an honest appraisal of the situation right now is that the count is not being verified properly. I am merely calling on the Republicans to use their power to change that. Anyone who read my essay closely would have seen that was my point.

    You instead picked at it at the edges, looking for ways to justify doing as little as possible, to “wait till all reviews have been completed” to use your own words. We do that, without pushback, there will be no reliable verification, and I as well as millions of Americans who voted for Trump will strongly believe the election was stolen.

    You might be satisfied then with Biden as president, but the consequences of that will be terrible.

  • David: Your good wishes are always appreciated, but I would be more curious about your response to this post.

  • Cotour

    David: “or be willing to destroy our country to have him depart.”

    The country is not be destroyed, what is underway is a part of a proscribed process by the Founders when their is contention and doubt, read corruption, in politics.

    “In the era of Trump his loss OR his win in this presidential election in 2020 will be Trumpian. Never quitting or conceding will prevail one way or another.”

    This level of contention and not being willing to surrender when it is plain that there have been massive corrupt practices in the executing of the election and the counting of the vote in the many corrupt districts that in fact exist is just “For the good of the country” is a fraudulent tactic. The best thing for the country and the world for that matter is for this fight to be fought and all be revealed.

    If and when Trump is determined to have lost he will walk out the door.

    To have the need to avert ones eyes from what is plainly a corrupt system, dominated by the Democrats because it is their way, because of ones uncomfortability with what is visible to all is unacceptable. It is injurious to all involved.

    Anything worthwhile is difficult. And so this will be difficult, so it will be worthwhile.

    This is our system, this is our process.

  • Cotour

    Michigan election officials intimidated to certify?

    The threat directed at any one person who stands in the Lefts way will be destroyed, one way or another.

    “G.O.P. members of the elections board in Wayne County, which includes Detroit and is heavily Democratic, reversed their decision to hold up approval of Joe Biden’s victory after an outcry.”

    Massive “Human error” in 71% of our books, but we will certify anyway because this is a majority black city? Do black Americans in Michigan count differently than the rest of us? Or should I say, do Democrats and Leftists count differently?

  • Lee Stevenson

    Cotour…. I’m now hunting you down for an explanation regarding your work history aimed directly at me. I explained myself and my own history in the previous thread, and asked you twice for an explanation of your remarks…. Would you care to explain exactly what you meant here instead?

  • LocalFluff

    @wayne and Andi
    Thanks! “Polling station”, it’s funny that you use the same word for opinion polls and actual voting. And secretary of state is… the foreign minister. But states don’t have a foreign policy, I hope. Anyway, language and legal stuff is exotic, the numbers are however the same everywhere.

    The challenge with Benford’s law (that honestly measured numbers more often begin with a lower figure than a higher figure) is to adjust for the range of possible votes. Pure Benford law assumes an infinite range of numbers, while most polling stations seem to have between 500 and 2000 voters. But that should be easy to adjust for. And what’s interesting is the difference between candidates and earlier elections. Then there are several correlations to be made too, for example with characteristics of the inhabitants in terms of whatever there’s statistics about e.g. income, ethnicity, urban/rural, downvoting and whatnot. If substantial cheating occurred at certain polling stations, it should stand out pretty clearly in more than one way.

    Of course professionals will do more rigorous analysis than I can do and I bet we will hear of it. The question is if such statistics is enough to do something in a legal sense. I know that it is often used in economic fraud cases. And Putin’s re-elections have internationally been deemed as fraudulent on such basis. (Putin would be re-elected also without fraud, because he is pretty popular and the opposition weak. He cheats pre-emptively just to show the opposition that they have no chance whatever they do.)

  • Cotour

    It has to do with your love of the Socialist model and your stating what you stated you know about how I have lived and my not understanding the hardships of life in a previous thread.

    Once again, I know exactly what I write about.

  • Cotour

    Michigan canvassers doxed and threatened:

    Who dares stand against the mob?

  • Andrew_W

    You really don’t seem bothered in the slightest at all the allegations,

    Allegations are not evidence.

  • Andrew_W

    I should have added that it was known that people would be throwing such allegations after the elections; Democrats after a Trump win, Republicans after a Biden win – months ago. It was especially predictable that Trump wouldn’t accept the results – he said so – so now his disciples search for excuses and make baseless allegations to support him.

    If people act rationally what happens is they find evidence and then make allegations, courts then rule. That’s happened in several cases brought, the “evidence” was found nonsense. So it’s clear that in the case of these elections, following Trump’s example, the allegations are being made prior to any evidence being found to support them. Like Chris Krebs any Republicans standing up for democracy are attacked by the Trump loyalist mob.

    All a good example of the fragility of democracy in highly divided nations where core beliefs are at stake, it’s been seen in many countries where democracy is put below partisanship. And of course the evidence required to placate the angry can never be found, they will always be able to dream up new ways in which to claim the alleged electoral theft occurred. The level of evidence required to dispel their closely held beliefs is impossible to attain. When they ask for evidence to dispel their doubts they would reasonably be asking for evidence of fraud, not for evidence of absence of fraud. For Mr. Zimmerman the alleged fraud has become an unshakable core belief, whether he understands that or not,. If it’s that way with 70 million Americans and Trump refuses to concede after the final recounts the US is in deep trouble.

  • Lee Stevenson

    @Cotour, quote “Once again, I know exactly what I write about”. I am pleased you do, because I have absolutely no idea. ( And I very much doubt anyone else does!). I have stated many times ( I’m getting bored of using that term!), That I have never met an American who was less than honest and hard working, indeed I found the good folk of West Virginia a little too proud if anything, they relied on the barter economy rather than taking a little return on their tax dollars in benefits. I’m not entirely sure what you think I may have said, or the the meaning behind anything I have said which you may have misconstrued, but I have respect to you for having always been a hard working guy. So have I. And as such I think we have perhaps an equal right to our opinions on life. We may venomously disagree, but I will not let you condemn my opinions out of hand because you think you “know my kind”, it would be very easy to state “I know your kind”, your a hard right winger… I am a pretty liberal socialist, I have more in common with you than you will ever feel comfortable with, and I also disagree with you on more subjects than you will ever agree with me with. Non of this makes one of us “better” than the other, or even more correct. You may feel you are more correct than I, and I feel I am more correct than you. You may have more defenders here, it is after all a right wing website. I could invite you to a European left wing forum… Much less ANTIFA than your left wing, and offering socialist arguments for an open society, WITH free speech… And you would still feel correct regardless of the arguments cast at you.
    This is the nature of true democracy… And I enjoy the time I spend here, regardless of the stuff thrown my way… That is how it should be! And if anyone is interested in peeking into some of the more left leaning places on the internet, just say and I will post links. Places where all opinions may not be received with good grace, but will be accepted. Very much like here.
    And as I’m allowed to say this…. All you right wingers have no idea how much the poorest in your society, the lower middle class, the underprivileged, would have the chance to pull themselves out of poverty, and to climb the social ladder, and contribute more to society, if they were given a little help. And this is where government should tax a tad higher on the rich, and throw those dollers back into the bottom. Because a rising tide does lift all ships, but a ride begins at the bottom of the water.
    Your turn :-)

  • Cotour

    I suspect that you were or are hitting the happy juice once again and have forgotten your previous recent statements and projections regarding me and what my life is like and the warm and fuzzy wonders of the Socialist model.

    This is what you and your kind promote, and these are not suggestions, they are commands:

    And I say, NO THANK YOU. What a bunch of naive CRAP!

    (Maybe you should prepare for your trip to Mars, you can build what ever kind of Socialist utopia that you please. Better there than here.)

  • Edward

    David wrote: “David above is correct.

    Do we have more than one David on this thread? If so, this could be confusing.

  • Edward

    Eternal Vigilance is the price of liberty.
    These are the times that try men’s mettle.

    This is the time that these phrases mean. We did our part, and massive election fraud was exposed. Will our Courts be vigilant and save this country from tyranny? Will our state legislatures? Would the House of Representatives?

  • Cotour

    If you remember I asked: “Where is the outrage and the massive law suit from Dominion or SmartMatic after the accusations against them related to their fraudulent voting machines and the essential destruction of their entire company?”

    Well here it is, or the threat of one anyway:

    The law suit threat was sent to the attention of Sidney Powell. Ms. Powells attorney, Lin Wood’s response?

    Wood wrote on Twitter. “Since everything Sidney is saying about election fraud is documented TRUTH, my response to SmartMatic was simple & to the point.”


    Discovery here will be much more than interesting. In other words, there will be no law suit.

  • Cotour


    1. Attorney General, Bill Barr, head of the DOJ resigns from the Trump administration just before Christmas and will be immediately replaced by, Jeff Rosen. Why did Barr resign at this particular point in time? Barr was not down with or did not have the stomach for what will be, or should be coming regarding the clearly established fraud and mass cheating that went on in the 2020 presidential election?

    If you remember well before the election and the imminent use of the massive “Mail in voting” scheme due to the very convenient Covid 19 pandemic / Communist Chinese Gift to the world / strategic invasion / asymmetrical warfare tool, choose one. (Remember, Trump is a giant problem for the Communist Chinese and their world domination plans and are totally invested in his defeat, which is exactly why he needs to stay right where he is) I pointed out as many others have, that mail in voting was the least secure form of voting. AND that the Democrats will without doubt use this situation to cheat in order to win. And that has been established through clear evidence without a doubt to me. The Democrats counted on the fact that there was too much to discover and the lift to be too big for the Trump lawyers to get it all together before the January 6th meeting of the Congress. But I believe their strategy will be proven incorrect.

    “BREAKING— Pres Trump has given new Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen permission to use classified information for indictments. Go time,” read the original tweet from GOP Candidate Tricia Flanagan.”

    2. January, 6th the Congress will meet and it looks like when after vice president Pence counts the electoral votes and asks the question, “Are there any here who object to these electoral results?”. I strongly suspect that there will be at least one and there should be many more Congressmen / Woman who will have very strong objections to the results. And I suspect that there will be at least one and there should be many more Senators that will second those objections.

    And at that point the respective legislative bodies are required to go their chambers and sort it all out. And by that time there will be even more evidence that establishes that the Democrats in these several contested municipalities employed a significant and coordinated effort to ensure that their candidate, Joe Biden, possibly the weakest and most compromised presidential candidate in history to win.

    The Constitution provides all the solutions for such a condition and if the Congress and the Senate choose to not see what is plain to see then the consequences for both political party’s will be devastating, as it will be for every American. And either way I think there has been born a new nationalist American patriot movement in our country, and that to my thinking will be consequential and not to be trifled with and called the Trumpublican party. Not a third party but the Nationalist American patriot force that will in time take over the existing RINO dominated Republican party.

    And the Democrats have their own political demons to deal with, and they are called, “Democrat Socialists”. In other words a minority of the un and anti American component of the Democrat party who is attempting to highjack a majority of the sane, hard working and patriotic Democrat Americans. Patriotic Democrat Americans are not Socialists, period. I know many of them, they are my friends.

    3. If there is no confrontation and fight to the political death in the Congress on this issue, on January the 6th, and everything is smoothed over and everything seems calm and taken care of, we are all Fornicated! From chaos comes order, so let there be chaos, because that is what what is needed to get things on some sort of American Constitutional track and this corruption exposed for what it is. Without this Congressional confrontation, which is Congresses fiduciary responsibility, ITS THEIR JOB, and why no court wanted to hear any evidence in the multiple cases of voter fraud in the many municipalities where it clearly occurred, America will be further served up to the Globalists and Communist China. And in that “new” reality there effectively is NO America as you know it. America is just a hollow concept stripped of its core foundation, the Constitution. And that is no bovine effluent.

    Like I said, Simple.

  • Questioner

    Dozens of Georgia witnesses step forward to expose election irregularities—Pt1 |

    00:00 Amanda McGee
    02:32 Ashley Gilles
    08:22 Debbie Fisher
    21:23 Kelly Moore
    25:55 Caesar Gonzales
    30:23 Marci McCarthy
    39:36 Pamela Reardon
    45:54 Paula Davis
    51:11 Susan Knox

    “Over 40 witnesses spoke to the media at Cobb Country Republican Party Headquarters in Georgia on Dec 9, 10, 13, and 14. They presented evidence of election irregularities and fraud they had collected during the 2020 election ballot counts and recount. Some of them did not get the chance to give their testimonies in person, but sent their video testimonies or did a video interview online.”

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