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More evidence masks are merely a symbolic gesture

A new study has found that both improvised and surgical masks are ineffective in stopping the spread of COVID-19.

They found that “neither surgical nor cotton masks effectively filtered SARS–CoV-2 during coughs by infected patients.” They also “found greater contamination on the outer than the inner mask surfaces,” suggesting that any contact with a mask worn for a long time will likely mean the mask increases the chance of spreading the virus.

Their conclusion?

[B]oth surgical and cotton masks seem to be ineffective in preventing the dissemination of SARS–CoV-2 from the coughs of patients with COVID-19 to the environment and external mask surface.

Granted the experiment only tested four individuals in a controlled situation, but what they found matches what many others have been saying. It also illustrates the uncertainty of the science. Considering that the World Health Organization (WHO) states now that healthy people should not wear masks, and that there are also health risks for those that do, it once again seems very inappropriate (I am using a very mild word here) for our leaders or anyone to now demand that we all wear them, all the time, in all situations, blindly.

If others wish to wear masks, all power to them. I however will not submit to something I consider irrational. And I suspect sadly that I am mostly alone in this, because I think that most who say they agree with me will still cooperate and put on a mask when told to do so. I will not. At the moment I am fighting with two doctors, who will not see me for regular doctors appointments unless I wear a mask. I have told them I will not, have cited the medical reasons why (I have asthma), and they so far have not bent.

If it means I no longer have any doctors to treat me, then fine. I would rather die than live in such a society. I was born free, I will die free. Or as Ronald Reagan once said:

I am no longer young. You might have suspected that. [Laughter] The house we hope to build is one that is not for my generation, but for yours. It is your future that matters. And I hope that when you’re my age, you’ll be able to say as I have been able to say: We lived in freedom, we lived lives that were a statement, not an apology.

I intend to live my life as a statement, not an apology.

Conscious Choice cover

Now available in hardback and paperback as well as ebook!


From the press release: In this ground-breaking new history of early America, historian Robert Zimmerman not only exposes the lie behind The New York Times 1619 Project that falsely claims slavery is central to the history of the United States, he also provides profound lessons about the nature of human societies, lessons important for Americans today as well as for all future settlers on Mars and elsewhere in space.

Conscious Choice: The origins of slavery in America and why it matters today and for our future in outer space, is a riveting page-turning story that documents how slavery slowly became pervasive in the southern British colonies of North America, colonies founded by a people and culture that not only did not allow slavery but in every way were hostile to the practice.  
Conscious Choice does more however. In telling the tragic history of the Virginia colony and the rise of slavery there, Zimmerman lays out the proper path for creating healthy societies in places like the Moon and Mars.


“Zimmerman’s ground-breaking history provides every future generation the basic framework for establishing new societies on other worlds. We would be wise to heed what he says.” —Robert Zubrin, founder of founder of the Mars Society.


All editions are available at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and all book vendors, with the ebook priced at $5.99 before discount. The ebook can also be purchased direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit, in which case you don't support the big tech companies and I get a bigger cut much sooner.


Autographed printed copies are also available at discount directly from me (hardback $24.95; paperback $14.95; Shipping cost for either: $5.00). Just email me at zimmerman @ nasw dot org.


  • Cotour

    I just today designed and fabricated my light weight / summer symbolic tribute to the mask.

    Its a pair of safety glasses with 1.5 readers in them and attached to the bottom of the lens is a 8 x 8″ patch of red tee shirt material that hangs freely from them. Think of a tribute to Covid and the ladies of the middle east. Works great.

    Today governor Cuomo made an executive order that a business owner can legally refuse to allow someone in a business who was not wearing a mask, there really is no mandate for the public only for “employees” dealing with the public. I interpret that to also mean that I can also allow anyone who does not have a mask into the business if I so choose.

    I am wearing my symbolic tribute to Covid and the ladies of the middle east around my neck and will put it on if someone needs me to.

    For the last ten weeks I have worked dealing with the public up close and personal every day, 7 days a week, no problems no issues, no Covid, the gift from the “Bat soup eating” Communist Chinese leadership to the world. The doors have been open in all weather and the fans are on. I have to find my way through dealing with these “suggestions” from the governor and the junior Sandinista mayor of NYC and keep things chugging along.

    I will report on how things go.

  • Cotour

    First you have bats spreading Covid, and now the monkeys have gotten into spreading it.

    You can not make this stuff up.

  • Andrew _W

    In culture we have many practices that are irrational in scientific terms, but rational in the context of living as social animals. Smoking in a shop is unlikely to cause cancer in others, but it’s certainly impolite, belching, wearing dark glasses when it’s not sunny, dressing appropriately, speaking at an appropriate volume, using appropriate language – especially at someone else’s place.
    You demand the courtesy of polite language here, others demand what to them is a courtesy of a mask when you’re at their place. Even if the scientific justifications are uncertain. What’s the scientific justification for not swearing here?

  • commodude

    Andrew, there is a sociological reason for not cursing on this website, and that is maintaining civility.

    There is also a sociological reason for wearing masks and mandating that they be worn, and that reason is governmental control.

    We frown on that here in the states.

  • Andrew _W

    Commodude, my comment is in reply to Mr. Zimmerman’s post, he does not mention government compulsion, only Dr compulsion. It may be that government is forcing doctors, or it may be that doctors choose to act on government guidelines, or perhaps they’re acting on their own behalf or on behalf of their other clients.

  • Phill O

    Interesting study! Shall al surgeons abandon masks? Shall we forget about coughing into our elbow? What about coughing into a handkerchief?

    Quarantine the sick and leave the healthy free! If we all wear level 4 suites, what life is that? Sure seems the only sure way to keep people healthy (Micheal Jackson?)

    Went to a grocery store today with my wife. She saw more people wearing masks, I saw fewer and those wearing them were wrongly installed.

    I played the game for my ophthalmologist but did not have to wear one for my GP. I got what I wanted with only a short duration of sucking it up for the former. Everyone has a choice and those choices I respect.

    I do not keep the 6 feet separation, in that, passing someone in an aisle.

    Sure glad I am not in NYC or Toronto

  • commodude

    Andrew, it is Government compulsion, enforced by idiots in lab coats.

    Robert’s mandate for civil language doesn’t interfere with anyone’s breathing.

  • Phill O

    Just a note: Previously, I was indicating there were over 60 corona viruses in bats. A more current review paper indicates this number is now over 200.

    We go into the bats environments (and have for years) with no PPE: And survive!

    When some were trying to link Ebola to bats, they used full level 4 suits to go into those caves: And found nothing!

  • R7 Rocket

    Looks like Andrew_W’s communist faction has stopped believing in COVID19 hysteria, now that they are organizing riots in Minneapolis and other communist-controlled cities.

  • R7 Rocket: I do wonder indeed about Rose. She had posted a good off-topic story tip, much appreciated. I emailed her to thank her and to suggest she email me such tips direct next time.

    I then got an email from someone who said “I often receive emails for an American woman who seems not to know her own email address – so if you have been given this email, I am afraid it has been given to you incorrectly.” I noted this to Rose in a comment, noting that she needs to correct the email address she lists in future comments (which is not seen publicly). I think she has not commented since.

    Such things puzzle me, but they do suggest something not quite kosher, especially since she has not fixed the problem or clarified things. She is still welcome to do so, but that she has not makes me suspicious of her motives for commenting. And yes, her comments also seemed to stop once it was clear that the Wuhan flu was not going to be the plague she and Andrew_W were convinced was about to happen.

  • Andrew_W

    . . .but that she has not makes me suspicious of her motives for commenting.

    My suspicion is that she got sick of the paranoia and other psychoses around here.

    . . . once it was clear that the Wuhan flu was not going to be the plague she and Andrew_W were convinced was about to happen.

    Except that the progress of the spread of Covid and the IFR are close to what I expected, given the responses that there have been to reduce transmission.

    Incidentally Mr. Zimmerman, I’ve been giving the same email address over my years of commenting here, when that one became defunct I didn’t both to update it because, hey, my comments still appeared, and changing the email address can lead to hassles on some sites. For this and future comments I’ll use my current email address.

  • Sasha Shokolova

    Call it a slippery slope if you will, but I can see the following sequence happening so easily, provided the appropriate time to acclimate public opinion is allowed between ‘steps’ …

    Step One: In order to ‘limit the spread’ of a communicable disease, governmental executive mandates the wearing of masks to ‘promote public health and safety’. (The current step)
    Step Two: Following some future outbreak, and citing the danger of spread as well as the precedent of mandating personal behavior/comportment to ‘promote public health and safety’ created by mask mandates, henceforth no one who does not accept vaccination against will be prohibited from all public spaces ‘for the public welfare’.
    Step Three: Citing the earlier precedent of drugs being mandated ‘for the public welfare’, children showing behavioral problems are mandated to take various drugs to promote ‘correct’ behavior or they will not be accepted into public schools.
    Step Four: Citing the earlier precedent that drugs may be prescribed and mandated for children with behavioral issues for the public welfare, the list is expanded to include any citizens with behavioral issues.
    Step Five: The list of ‘behavioral issues’ is gradually expanded to include holding opinions deemed ‘anti-social’, ‘hate-based’, ‘incorrect’ or otherwise undesirable.

    I have not yet worn a mask, nor shall I. As I’ve heard said, ‘My rights don’t end where your fear begins.’ If I am to be fined and/or imprisoned for it, so be it. We were told masks don’t work. Then they work. Then they don’t work. California says you can go in the water, but not sit on the beach. New York says you can sit on the beach but not go in the water. Both claim they are being guided by ‘The Science’. When I’m next performing surgery over a patient’s open abdominal cavity, a transaction we both agreed to, I’ll wear a mask. That is part of that transaction. But respiratory diseases are part of the general risk that comes with inhabiting the planet. If you fear getting one, then by all means exercise your discretion and wear a mask. For myself, I know that immune systems only work when they’re exposed to pathogens, and will exercise my own discretion as to whether I choose to exercise mine, or coddle it. As I see it, don’t risk my health by making me wear a mask, and I won’t risk your health by making you take off yours!

  • Sasha Shokolova: Your slippery slope of lies left out several steps that have already occurred.

    Step 1: Please social distance for the next month or so so we can flatten the curve and prevent the healthcare system from getting overwhelmed. This is very temporary, as we all know there is no way to prevent the spread of this virus.

    Step 2: We need to lock down society, shut many what we (not you) deem “non-essential activities and businesses” in order to further flatten the curve so the healthcare system will not be overwhelmed. This is very temporary, as we all know there is no way to stop the spread of this virus.

    Step 3: The lockdowns and social distancing requirements cannot be ended as planned, because we need to slow the disease’s spread for a longer indefinite period of time. Furthermore, in many cases we cannot remove either until a vaccine is found.

    At this point we pick up the thread, where you began it.

    From the beginning, the lock downs and social demands were an expression of power, and had nothing really to do with the disease. If the thugs that imposed them had been serious about limiting the disease, they would have looked at the data, realized that only the elderly sick are really at risk, and focused on protecting them, while letting everyone else go about their lives.

    Which is pretty much what states and countries like Florida and Sweden did. And it worked. Their Wuhan flu statistics are not significantly different from everyone else’s, but the state of their economies are much better.

  • Gary Mike

    I, too, suffer from asthma. I, too, refuse to wear a mask. (65+ yo) Moisture build-up in the mask can reduce my access to oxygen and a depletion of my blood oxygen content–leading to me passing out, collapsing, hitting my head on something, then dying.

    Wear your mask, but if you insist that I do, you’ll be wearing your mask up your you know what.

  • Gary Fisher

    The compulsory masks are theater, not medicine. Most who wear them publicly are thrilled finally to have an easily portable and highly visible virtue signal. Next up: armbands.

  • wayne

    Judy Lysy –
    “wearing the yellow star”
    Montreal Holocaust Museum, 2016

  • commodude

    As an aside, if anyone saw Governor Cuomo’s new conferences early on, the look on his face that the media portrayed as determination wasn’t that at all, it wasn’t being tough.

    Features tight, pupils dialated, sweating, twitchy movements….

    That’d not determination or fatigue, that’s fear.

    His edicts are and were those of a coward who knows he has to do something, but doesn’t have the intestinal fortitude to let science and data dictate his actions. He rode the mob to power, and had to mollify the mob before they turned on him.

  • Cotour

    Cuomo? Fear? Without doubt. That was not leadership we all witnessed, it was managed fear.

    Until there was some real experience and statistics and some proven therapies to go by all there was was fear by most all, and particularly on the part of any concerned politician who had to actually manage it.

    How does a politician who may be the #1 in contention for the Democrat presidential nomination, his life long dream, his Liberal birth Right, get through something that he himself knows he is woefully un prepared for and he is woefully unprepared for it because he made certain choices that undermined and in fact made all concerned much more vulnerable to it? And in fact directly was the cause of 5500 plus elderly persons deaths because of those fearful and incompetent decisions?

    Now that is the basis for some sleepless nights.

    And Cuomo is in the process of spinning the entire thing into “I was just following what the president said to do”, which is a fraud and a total dodge. The president from the beginning saved his sorry “Progressive” buttocks. Him and the most incompetent and bathed in fear because he is the worst and most incompetent NYC mayor in history, the junior Sandinista, DeBlasio. An American disgrace.

    Ignorance is the father of fear, and fear can be the mother of invention. But Cuomo is not going to invent his way out of this and into the presidency.

  • commodude


    An intelligent leader would have determined that the outbreaks were in 2 spots, (Westchester and NYC) would have quarantined the hotspots, protected the vulnerable as best as possible, and waited for data to determine further actions.

    Not shut down the entire state in a move of utter panic.

    Not leverage the panic into a dictatorial power grab.

    The Legislature is as guilty as he is, as they passed the measures in the budget giving him the unconstitutional power. My State Senator has ceased responding to my questions asking why the legislature didn’t sue over the blatantly unconstitutional power grab when they directed the National Guard to “redistribute” PPE and ventilators from upstate hospitals.

    Andy is an ignorant coward playing the tough guy on TV, and the Media love it.

  • RDM

    What is the difference with not swearing? For an example, I work in a greenhouse, Andrew. You try wearing a mask all day in 90 degree humid weather and then come back and tell me that it is equivalent to giving up swearing.

  • Andrew_W

    RDM diddums.

  • Rdm

    Andrew- does ‘what you expected’ include both the case padding going on by including antibody tests as active cases and including people with a .5 blood alcohol content and gunshot wounds as corona deaths? In Colorado the audit reduced deaths by almost a quarter. In New York I imagine the percentage would be much higher. I’m pretty sure flu deaths are being assigned to coronavirus given how much flu deaths have fallen off a cliff from what the cdc estimated to be an unusually high flu season. There is some ‘lying with numbers’ going on here.

  • Rdm

    So in other words Andrew, you have no real answer?

  • Andrew_W

    including antibody tests as active cases

    I’ve not seen reports on that, a positive Covid antibody test is good evidence that an individual has previously been infected with covid, not absolutely certain, but something like 95-99% likely.

    . .including people with a .5 blood alcohol content and gunshot wounds as corona deaths?

    There was one case of that, there’s not much in the way of evidence that that sort of weird attribution is more than the actions of one misguided or deranged idiot. The same single example gets repeated over and over, is the death of George Floyd proof of widespread police brutality, or proof of one officer doing something stupid and thuggish?

    In Colorado the audit reduced deaths by almost a quarter.

    No, it didn’t reduce deaths by one. What happened is that clinically diagnosed cases without a positive test were initially included as covid cases but were subsequently excluded from the official tally.
    In New Zealand we currently have a total tally of 1154 confirmed cases plus 350 “probable” cases, the probables only with clinical diagnosis. If those clinical diagnoses were wrong they should still be happening, but nope, they fit the same curve as the test confirmed cases, all the way to zero.

    There are plenty of doctors from around the world working in covid wards that can tell you that with an examination and an x-ray they can almost always easily tell the difference between a case of covid and other ailments. Whose opinion should I respect on a medical diagnoses, yours, a politicians, or a doctors?

    I imagine . .

    No doubt.

    I’m pretty sure flu deaths are being assigned to coronavirus given how much flu deaths have fallen off a cliff from what the cdc estimated to be an unusually high flu season.

    That same thing has happened around the world, the measures intended to reduce the spread of Covid are the same measures that reduce the spread of the flu, so, surprise, surprise, countries that have implemented social distancing and lockdowns to combat covid have also seen the prevalence of flu rapidly decline.

    Personally I keep my skepticism in evaluating conspiracy theories, I want good evidence, not your confirmation bias.

  • For at least 3 reasons, this study does not demonstrate the futility of mask wearing:

    First, because the petri dish showed that there was less than one-tenth as much contamination of the petri dish when the ill person wore a cotton mask than it did with no mask (a 1-log decrease is a 10-fold decrease).

    Second, the petri dishes were positioned only 8 inches from the subjects’ faces. As the authors note, “We do not know whether masks shorten the travel distance of droplets during coughing.”

    Third, there were just 4 participants (effectively 3 given undetectable results from 1).

  • Kermit the Retired Soldier

    Good Morning,

    Like most all lawyers will tell you at $50 to $1000 per hour, “It depends.” It looks like masks in Japan, South Korea, Hong Kong and Taiwan have worked. Every flu/cold/pollen season when we lived in Japan for three years and South Korea for a year, we would wear masks because (a) everyone else did it and (b) we ended up getting less hay fever and colds.

    No mask works 100% of the time for all possible hazards. Some masks, like two I bought yesterday from an entrepreneurial young vendor, are merely a thin cloth that meets the letter but not spirit of the DoD regulations to wear a mask while at work. He offered an instant solution for those who lacked a mask but needed one for work. While I did feel cheated once I looked carefully at the masks, I also was glad that young people were interested in small business and adapting to the ever changing needs of their clients.

    Recently I did a literature study on the efficiency of the various masks, and the variation between the various styles of masks, materials in the masks, and the pathogens needing to be filtered out.

    For example, a surgical mask has an efficiency variation of 15% to 98% against the SM2 virus. That’s a huge variation IMO.

    With regards to homemade masks, I was shocked to see that nylon hosiery filtered out 67% of the 2-micron diameter aerosol particles, while a shirt filtered out 4%, a towel filtered out 14% and a handkerchief filtered out 2%. Please look at the following publication. Sadly the entire publication is behind a paywall. :(

    Cooper, D., W. Hinds, J. Price, R. Weker, and H. Yee: “Expedient methods of respiratory protection. II. Leakage tests. Final report”: Harvard Univ., Boston, MA (USA). School of Public Health, 1983.

    My wife is making masks using various laminates of materials, to include nylon, in order to get a washable mask with a non-uniform cascade impactor that can filter out most of the materials we want to have filtered out.

    Of course, the best protection against pathogens of concern is to not interact with them. We have seen that telework and isolation can actually be good things, and introverts like me actually really enjoy being alone for long periods of time.

    IMO, if Idaho wanted to reduce the spread of COVID-19, the governor could have stopped the virus in it’s tracks and made huge amounts of money for the State of Idaho with the following statement given back in early March.

    “Hunting, fishing, boating, and camping licenses are 50% for the month of March. However, you have to agree to go out and enjoy the wilds of Idaho for at least three weeks.”

    With regards to masks, I view it more as a personal choice. I wear a very nice neoprene bicycling mask with removable charcoal filters. The air pollution and/or pollen in places I’ve been has been quite bad at times, and I’m an avid cyclist. During this COVID-19 crisis I can wear a mask and I don’t automatically look like a freak now.

    If I’m in the store and wearing a mask, go ahead and allow me to. If someone else decides to shop while au naturale, they can do that too IMO. However, when they get their credit card out of their biological wallet, I will look away and choose a different register to check out at. It is still down to personal choice to wear a mask or not depending upon what the store or government building or wherever you go decides. If the owner of the building decides masks are required or not, it’s is their choice.

    You have my email address now. If you want more information regarding masks and current COVID-19 infection and fatality rates, please feel free to email anytime.

    Of course, you are getting free advice, and you are getting at least what you paid for.

  • Kermit the Retired Soldier

    Of course, I have seen a LOT of people wearing their masks covering their mouths but not their noses. It is sort of weird, but again it’s personal choice. The other mask wearing that I find amusing is people wearing masks to cover just their chins.

    I have spend more than 24 hours in MOPP4 before and rather enjoyed it. Other people go nuts. It takes all types. Some of us are more comfortable in PPE and some of us find it mentally, physically, socially, and even spiritually / philosophically taxing.

  • commodude


    I’ve spent plenty of time in MOPP gear. The difference between MOPP and the silliness that the fascists are forcing on society with masks is that MOPP is well designed for a specific threat (chemical weapons use on the battlefield in a threat environment with stated first use policies, and I’ll forgive the designers of the M-17 ask for the cheek filters that take 10 minutes to change…) while NONE of the masks used are designed for the intended use, they all restrict breathing, and there are no studies that actually support their use.

    Asians started wearing masks when the particulate pollution in their cities became so bad you couldn’t breathe without them. They’re also fashion/ cultural signalling in certain societies.

    The only use for Masks in the United States is a tool to control ,signal virtue, and engage the sheep to think they’re doing something.

  • Gary Brown

    RZ – your words “It once again seems very inappropriate (I am using a very mild word here) for our leaders or anyone to now demand that we all wear them, all the time, in all situations, blindly.

    If you can’t offer 2 or more examples of where our leaders or “anyone” are demanding we all wear masks, all the time , in all situations blindly, you are setting up a straw man. Additionally, there is a difference between private and personal actors demanding you do something to do business with them than the government forcing them. Your freedom is always limited by other people’s freedom or rights. I’m in favor of situational mask wearing based on relative risk and that is really the only approach that makes sense. I don’t wear a mask outdoors, for example. I don’t wear a mask in my home, or in my car. Everything else is up for grabs based on requirements and my judgement.

  • commodude

    Gary, many governors are mandating masks via executive fiat regardless of a dearth of evidence showing any effectiveness. Massachusetts, New York…..just to name your 2.

    There are others as well.

  • Cotour

    Mandating in certain defined circumstances / conditions.

    There is no executive order that I am aware of that blanket mandates the wearing of masks if you are not within your own home.

  • commodude

    Cotour, if you READ the order signed by Il Duce Minuto, it’s very vague and mandates nothing.

    However, if you deal with the petit dictator bureaucrats mandated to enforce the order, you get a very different interpretation than a reasonable layman would come up with.

    Massachusetts, however, has a very different directive, stating that anyone not in their own home without a mask on is subject to a $300 fine.

    There are certain municipalities in MA which have gone far beyond even that, making the fine up to $1000.

  • Cotour

    I did not know that.

  • wodun

    “I intend to live my life as a statement, not an apology.”

    That’s fine and far more honest than hiding behind “science”. Many people who disfavor wearing a mask or taking any steps to prevent the spread of the virus are not coming to their position out of rational thought but because they want to make a statement. There is a bit of projection when they accuse others of virtue signaling over wearing a mask.

    People are becoming so ideologically entrenched that they are closing themselves off to making good decisions. Persistence is a virtue. Stubbornness can be a character defect.

    I think it is fine to be irrational. Humans are irrational beings. It is only by being self aware, and accepting, of this that we are able to sort through the distortions and make good decisions.

    When I consider wearing a mask, I look at the context*. There is a low chance that I will contact a sick person but certain situations put me in a place where there are high volumes of people from all over town or where I will be in contact with vulnerable populations. It is important to remember than in some contexts, you will be exposing yourself to populations that are vulnerable. Aren’t these the people we are supposed to look out for? I am fairly certain that I have read here that everyone should go about their normal business but that we should look out for the vulnerable.

    This is why doctor offices want people to wear masks. It isn’t necessarily about you. It is about protecting the vulnerable so that they can see a doctor.

    A person might be totally healthy but how is anyone else to know that? A person might also think they are totally healthy, but really aren’t and again, no one else can know.

    I urge people who are making statements to think about the context they are making statements in. Going to the store is different than being around a bunch of people with weakened immune systems.

    Go read the comments over at instapundit and tell me which side of the debate appear more rational and thought out.

    *It is totally possible to look at the context and determine that wearing a mask isn’t needed but that won’t be the case in all situations.

  • Cotour

    Here is a little edumaction about masks and their uses:

    A cop breaking windows to start a riot? CIA? FBI? ANTIFA?

    Looks something like that:

    Obviously this guy is out of place in the Minneapolis protests, he is without doubt white behind his mask, he has attempted to disguise himself all dressed in black and is also concealed by an umbrella, and he is carrying a hammer and is very purposefully breaking windows in a commercial business across the street from a police station.

    The guy videoing asks if he is a cop? Something more going on here than just protestors.

    Nothing is as it seems.

  • Andrew_W

    A tall white guy trying to hide his identity by wearing a mask and black clothes, and carrying an umbrella, is breaking windows.

    That’s the only conclusion you can make on the evidence available.

    I’m getting tired of reading kooky conspiracy theory.

  • Cotour

    Tell me what he was doing in the middle of a protest about a black man that was killed purposefully breaking windows like he was out for a stroll on a Sunday afternoon.

    Even you can see that there is something other than a protest that is going on here. No?


    You would make one hell of a Democrat if you lived here in America, woooosh.

    Nothing is as it seems.

  • Andrew_W

    Even you can see that there is something other than a protest that is going on here. No?

    These are POSSIBILITIES:
    He has a grudge against the owner of the business.
    He has mental issues that were triggered by the riots.
    He’s a Democrat with some strange agenda.
    He’s a Republican with some strange agenda.
    He’s just a moron that likes breaking windows.
    He’s a university professor conducting a science experiment.

    I’m sure you can add to that short list.

  • Andrew_W

    OR, and this is my favourite:
    He could be a time travelling former Democrat, Republican with a grudge against the owner of the business also with a strange agenda and mental issues, university professor conducting a science experiment.

    The strange the better, right?

  • Cotour

    So you do agree, there is something other than a protest going on here.

    Very good Andrew W.

    Now we just have to find out exactly what it is that IS going on here.

  • Andrew _W

    “Now we have to find out . . .”
    Knock yourself out, but the “we” doesn’t include me.

  • Cotour

    But you now do agree with me. So your initial response was reactionary, un called for and inaccurate.

    Just like 2 million Americans dead in 3 years due to Corona virus, and the majority of most all of your assertions and conclusions. Oink.

  • Phill O

    Anyone else willing to shake hands again?

    I may have put a mask on to satisfy the ophthalmologist, but will shake hands with those I trust!

  • Andrew _W

    Cotour, I never claimed that he was acting as a protester. My initial comment stands.

  • tmavenger

    Four subjects? If there is one thing we should have learned in the last 3 months it’s to be skeptical of experts spouting nonsense. I learned in kindergarten that spraying snot on people with a sneeze is an excellent way to transmit a respiratory disease. Masks prevent that. Is the ONE nation whose population wears masks that has NOT controlled this pandemic? Fer crissake people, what does it take to see reason?

  • Edward

    Phill O asked: “Anyone else willing to shake hands again?

    Not if we end up like Aurora in Asimov’s “The Robots of Dawn.” They were so absurdly germaphobic that they took social distancing to an extreme. Hmm. Much like we have been required to do today.

  • Gary Brown: See this post: I will NOT wear a mask. In it I cite legal requirements imposed in Colorado, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, and Maryland. And I wrote this on May 6, three weeks ago. Since then none of these states have relaxed their requirements, and Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Connecticut, Delaware, DC, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Dakota, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Puerto Rico, Rhode Island, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, and Wyoming have all imposed requirements that demand mask use.

    Most limit the demand to just employees of some businesses, but a healthy number demand that everyone wear them. See this link.

  • m d mill

    Kermit TRS:
    thanks for the references, but note, nylons themselves only filter 2% (1 layer)… see table IV last line here
    (no paywall!)
    The nylons are only good for creating a good seal around the face.
    although 8 layers of handkerchief filtered out 90% @ 2 um, assuming no leakage.

    see also

    Clearly a good quality mask must provide low leakage around the edges, which is why a firm cup shaped mask with deformable metal nose strip is particularly effective.

  • Andrew_W

    Distance, masks and eye protection
    Dr. John Campbell
    Your chances of being infected by others:
    If you are wearing a mask 3%
    If you are not wearing a mask 17%

    Lancet, Physical distancing, face masks, and eye protection to
    prevent person-to-person transmission of SARS-CoV-2 and
    COVID-19: a systematic review and meta-analysis
    1st June, COVID-19 Systematic Urgent Review Group Effort (SURGE)

    Details of the study at the link.

  • Cotour

    Where is Lee S when you need him?

  • Phill O

    Here is a news report which really puts the nail in the coffin for masks.

    The only logical reason (apart from surgeries etc) for wearing masks was the notion that it is to protect others from you if you were a carrier but asymptomatic. This article seems to debunk that!

  • Phill O

    This link explains everything about masks. Well worth doing the puzzle!

  • Cotour

    Some more info on Covid.

    On Amazon: Unreported Truths about COVID-19 and Lockdowns: Part 1: Introduction and Death Counts and Estimates Kindle Edition by Alex Berenson (Author) Format: Kindle Edition 4.8 out of 5 stars 1,536 ratings

    “Former New York Times reporter and prominent lockdown critic Alex Berenson provides a counterweight to media hysteria about coronavirus in this series of short booklets answering crucial questions about COVID.”

  • Cotour

    I first want to apologize for posting a video that features Whoopie, Joy Beyhar, and I do not know who that third woman is, I am certain that she is just as nutty a Liberal and Leftist supporting Democrat as the other two. My only intent was to show the Howard Stern comment about Trump. Please for give me, I personally find them to be vial, hateful and non relevant individuals.

    Howard Stern informs everyone, the every day people of America that “Trump despises you”. And Stern expects that to divide Trumps supporters? Who cares Howard? I have made this point many times: Do you need to love the surgeon that specializes in the urgent surgery that you need? Or do you need him to love you? I know I do not. I could care less about who Trump likes or does not like, me being among them.

    Sterns attempt at dividing is childish and unsophisticated, and IMO is just a desperate attempt at becoming relevant and in the medias eye. Stern and people like him are the problem here. No one cares if Trump likes them, Trump was hired to do a job and he is doing that job he was hired to do.

    Stern and the rest of those desperate Democrats / Liberals / supporters of Leftist agendas on the View reveal themselves every day for exactly what they are, desperate to be relevant and childish media talking heads that have become the enemy of the American people. Petty.

    Trump does not personally like you America, and so what? The media has become so transparent in their desperation. All is being revealed, let the sun shine in.

  • Cotour

    Just how much insult and exception are black Americans willing to take from these “Progressives”?

    The Left makes them less than and not equal, just outrageous.

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