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Twelve graphs prove masks are useless against COVID-19

Link here. The graphs, covering many more regions, countries, and states then the similar graphs I have posted previously, show that masks have zero effect on preventing the spread of the Wuhan virus. In some places infections rose after mask mandates were imposed. In others they declined. And the pattern showed little difference between places with or without mask mandates. As the author notes quite correctly,

Masks are not merely a small inconvenience. They have inadvertently become a key impediment to returning to a more normal life, a desirable goal for those seeking to twist the pandemic for political and electoral purposes.

Masks dehumanize us, and ironically serve as a constant reminder that we should be afraid. People can now be spotted wearing masks while camping by themselves in the woods or on a solo sailing trip. They have become a cruel device on young children everywhere, kindergarten students covered by masks and isolated by Plexiglas, struggling to understand the social expressions of their peers. Face coverings are causing real harm to the American psyche, provide little to no medical benefit, and distract us from more important health policy issues.

The mask dogma had many cracks in it from the start. For one, the U.S. surgeon general and the Centers for Disease Control both previously said that “masks are NOT effective in preventing [the] general public from catching coronavirus,” so they were already starting with a credibility deficit. Furthermore, many officials have been frequently caught without masks when they think the cameras are off them. Dr. Anthony Fauci, for example, has been caught doing this multiple times.

Take a look at the article and the graphs. They will make you feel really silly and stupid when you next put that mask on.

I say, throw the mask away. I don’t wear one, and won’t. I won’t bow to the scare tactics of politicians and incompetent and lying health officials. I have also found I pretty much can go anywhere I want without that mask. Almost no one questions me, and the few times someone has, I simply tell them I don’t wear for medical reasons, and they back off, leaving me alone.

If more people did as I do, so that those more timid began to see more people maskless and free, more people would be willing to do that same. We might actually begin to see people’s faces again, and live in a manner humans were meant to live.

Conscious Choice cover

Now available in hardback and paperback as well as ebook!


From the press release: In this ground-breaking new history of early America, historian Robert Zimmerman not only exposes the lie behind The New York Times 1619 Project that falsely claims slavery is central to the history of the United States, he also provides profound lessons about the nature of human societies, lessons important for Americans today as well as for all future settlers on Mars and elsewhere in space.

Conscious Choice: The origins of slavery in America and why it matters today and for our future in outer space, is a riveting page-turning story that documents how slavery slowly became pervasive in the southern British colonies of North America, colonies founded by a people and culture that not only did not allow slavery but in every way were hostile to the practice.  
Conscious Choice does more however. In telling the tragic history of the Virginia colony and the rise of slavery there, Zimmerman lays out the proper path for creating healthy societies in places like the Moon and Mars.


“Zimmerman’s ground-breaking history provides every future generation the basic framework for establishing new societies on other worlds. We would be wise to heed what he says.” —Robert Zubrin, founder of founder of the Mars Society.


All editions are available at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and all book vendors, with the ebook priced at $5.99 before discount. The ebook can also be purchased direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit, in which case you don't support the big tech companies and I get a bigger cut much sooner.


Autographed printed copies are also available at discount directly from me (hardback $24.95; paperback $14.95; Shipping cost for either: $5.00). Just email me at zimmerman @ nasw dot org.


  • Phill O

    There are 9 kids in our family: 5 now over 80. These have a few underlying conditions, as have the younger group. I have been encouraging my siblings to get the flu shot. The best argument is that the flu is worse than Covid-19. There is some evidence that the masks reduce the dose and, as follows, the severity of the virus (from my resident pathologist). However, the best use for the mask is to give people a (false) sense of security so that the economy will open.

    The damage done to people’s lives due to the closures is immeasurable and (IMHO) far worse than what the disease can do. This is a very smart disease: it can tell when people are 6 feet apart and also differentiates between close contact on a plane vs travel secluded in a vehicle. WOW

    A friend indicate that Trump would get an easy win if the economy held. This virus gave the democrats their only hope, but it takes destroying the economy. No problem for these rich dims from the NE of Tucson.

  • Ian C.

    Some afternoon fun: Speaking of not wearing masks, I like how the author of the below article was able to make it look like those who stabbed a guard were possibly angry Trump-voters who were radicalized by reading Bob’s views on his blog,

    “Mandating masks has become divisive only because it was framed that way by some politicians and commentators,” [Gottlieb] added.
    That divisiveness has continued to spark violent clashes around the country. The day Gottlieb’s oped ran, a shoe-store security guard in Chicago was stabbed 27 times after asking two sisters to put on masks and use store-provided hand sanitizer. Illinois has a statewide mandate to wear masks in public and while working.
    The attack, which was caught on surveillance cameras, occurred after the sisters refused the public health measures and the guard asked them to leave. They allegedly hurled a trash can at his head, stabbed him repeatedly with a “comb knife” in the back, neck, and arms, and also kicked him in the head and body.”

    but on closer inspection, one might wonder whether the stabbers even know what reading or following the news means.

    I applaud Beth from Ars Technica for this nice spin.

  • Ross

    I despise your selfishness. As a Libertarian, I am opposed to government mandated masks requirements. The research results on masks are mixed. I see no way that anyone can be absolutely certain they do or do not help. But, if a property owner requires masks then you should respect their requirement or not go onto their property. The same is true for places where masks are prohibited. (Not common, but I have read of a few gun stores prohibiting wearing masks.)

    This should not be political. Just respect other people. If masks are required wear one or don’t go there. If masks are not required it is not anyone else’s business if someone is not wearing a mask. Mask zealots who demand a mask in all places and anti-mask zealots who refused to respect property rights are two sides of the same coin. Both groups are selfish people who have a herd mentality and fail to respect individuals.

    Whether you are correct about masks or not, your actions are wrong.

  • Phasestar

    There’s a difference between mask policy and how it’s implemented and masks themselves. Conflating the two is a bad idea. Doctors and nurses are proving every day that masks work to protect them from COVID as they work in close proximity with COVID-positive patients and yet avoid infection. However, doctors and nurses are trained in proper mask and PPE use, the general public is not, nor does a sufficiently high percentage of the general public seem inclined enough to wear masks, not to mention properly, to make a major dent. However, in a world where masks were worn properly by the public, ideally with eye protection as well and proper hygiene was observed before, during and after mask use, it certainly would have an effect on the spread of the virus. You can argue correctly that mask mandates are not working as a public policy or health tool, but by presenting it as “masks don’t work” you’re actually helping create a self-fulfilling prophecy and also potentially mis-informing folks who may have higher risks and would benefit personally from using a mask to potentially reduce viral load. I’d be much more sympathetic to this line of reasoning if the clear distinction between masks working and mask mandates working were maintained.

  • Phasestar

    Well, I saw my polite and (at least I thought) well-argued comment appear and then later disappear, so apparently while you are against masks, you are for censorship.

  • Phasestar: Read the rules, right above the reply box. You are a new commenter and must be approved by me. I simply need time to get to it.

  • Cotour


    (Maybe this message should be in the actual comment box itself? No one is looking for the rules of posting as they are intent on posting and sharing their opinion, the rules posted above are for all intents and purposes essentially invisible)

  • Phasestar

    Robert, please accept my apologies. Entirely my fault and oversight.

  • David

    Ross and Phasestar – excellent points by both of you.

  • Phasestar: Apology accepted.

    We should all take this as a lesson: Don’t jump quickly to conclusions, try to be a bit humble, and don’t expect the worst of people. We will do better in life. Our opinions will also likely be based more on facts and less on guesswork or emotions.

  • Trent Castanaveras

    Phasestar wrote:
    “Doctors and nurses are proving every day that masks work to protect them from COVID as they work in close proximity with COVID-positive patients and yet avoid infection.”

    Earlier this month my daughter had a surgical procedure. The doctors and nurses involved in her care looked a lot like this:

    These pictures do not show the time they spent scrubbing their hands up to their upper arms, sanitizing their hands and arms, donning nitrile gloves, washing the gloves, sanitizing the gloves, donning another pair of gloves, and also washing and sanitizing that pair. You also do not see that the masks are sterilized and sanitized before use, and may only be used for a very limited time before they are thrown and a new one donned. (Andrew_W posted a study a few months ago stating good data that masks precipitously lose effectiveness from accumulative bacterial loads in under 4 hours of use; I would expect viral loads to be similar.)

    Look at those pictures. Ponder for a moment the layer upon layer of protective devices and procedures.

    To make the statement “masks work to protect them from Covid” seems disingenuous, at best. It is certainly not masks by themselves that limit Covid transmission. At least, sure masks work, sort of… as maybe the final line of defense when all other very proven and effective techniques in use fail for what ever reason to prevent stuff getting into or out of the nose and mouth.

    As you say, “The research results on masks are mixed.” Many recent, and nearly all older scientific trials lean in a strongly suggestive way towards “nearly completely ineffective, perhaps dangerous” regarding cloth, paper and surgical masks. Many of these studies take place in a medical setting, observing trained medical professionals using exactly the types of equipment shown above. Why then would we continue the farcical narrative that using them, and apparently only them, will stop the spread of Covid-19? Or for that matter, any virus? Weird, right?

    Handwashing has been a proven technique to limit bacterial and viral transmission for better than a century. That’s decades of empirical, irrefutable evidence. Why no handwashing mandates? I mean, there’s not even a sanitizing-your-hands mandate. Weird, right?

    Speaking of mandates, in my state of Wisconsin if a business does not comply with the governor Ever’s mandate, they are fined and can lose their business license. Further, if they don’t comply there is a strong sense of losing a good reputation, because people say things like, “I despise your selfishness.” to them, and to their friends, and on social media. At that point it doesn’t matter what is correct; the statement is Out There. Enforcing the rule isn’t personal, except in the sense that they are protecting their business. Everyone looks forward to the day the mandate is dropped.

    Personally, for the few minutes I am required to be in a public indoor place shopping, voting or what have you, I do wear a mask. Not because it prevent illness; it is better than having a mask zealot or six hounding me because I won’t conform, and as you say, most business people are simply doing their jobs. I won’t change anyone’s mind by challenging the rule in this way. I point people to the data, and in a few days I will exercise my power to hopefully change the government structure a bit.

    When I see a place that asks me to also wash or sanitize my hands, I take the time to thank them for that, because it makes great sense. And I do wash my hands incessantly, and am aware of everything I touch. I take my vitamins and eat well, usually food that I cook myself from scratch ingredients, many of which I grew in my garden. I am rarely sick, and do not anticipate that I will be any time soon. I will continue to intelligently live my life, because life is good. I calmly counsel others to do the same, my aging parents included.

    The issues surrounding Covid-19 are complex. Unfortunately they have become socially and politically driven as well. The constant media hype and fearmongering is correct in this one sense: we are all in this together. It behooves us to be humble. We should start from a place of first principles. We are most likely wrong, and will continue to make the wrong choices. It’s our job to be less wrong. We should question everything. It would do us well to get back onto a platform of acting on data, and science. Shikata ga nai.

  • David

    Mr. Zimmerman – looked at your information/charts and I don’t and won’t “feel really silly and stupid” continuing to wear a mask in public settings. My freedom is not affected one tiny bit. I’ve also read articles, seen charts, and had healthcare individuals say masks can help reduce the spread of this disease and that your position is to put it kindly inconsiderate. Proper mask usage along with frequent hand washing, trying to limit touching one’s face, social distancing, etc. all seem pretty simple acts. Masks in no way impact my freedom, nor do they dehumanize me or anyone I see wearing them. They certainly don’t make me feel afraid; if they do you, that’s unfortunate.

    You wrote: “I won’t bow to the scare tactics of politicians and incompetent and lying health officials” and then advise “throw the masks away.” Who are the health officials you refer to? Anyone in particular or is it everyone who is a doctor, nurse, etc. that counsel for the proper use and handling of masks?

    Someone much wiser than I summed up the “mask” debate by observing that sadly our country will never know how useful masks could be because the country will not ever get to the point of 95% usage in public for 6-8 weeks because of the actions from the jump of Trump. To me, instead of leading, he used this as just another wedge to divide us for his own uses, preying on the fears your commentary makes plain.

    Good health to you sir and to all.

  • Edward

    You wrote: “My freedom is not affected one tiny bit.

    Since you are mandated to wear a mask, that is your freedom being affected. Silly of you to not notice, but that is how to “boil the frog.”

    I’ve also read articles, seen charts, and had healthcare individuals say masks can help reduce the spread of this disease and that your position is to put it kindly inconsiderate.

    Masks do help to reduce the spread. The science shows that they stop about 3% of virus emissions, and reduce the effects of coughs from those who are both ill and so inconsiderate that they go out in public while ill. But this is hardly much in the battle against any flu, as the reduction in the spread is unmeasurable, especially when the mask may have made that ill person feel that it was OK to go out in pubic.

    The instructions from our fearful leaders are to wear masks in situations in which social distancing is not practical or practicable. This gives the impression that masks work and that social distancing is \unnecessary when wearing a mask. Thus, the mask mandates can have an effect of increasing the spread, because ignorant people fail to take the other, better precautions.

    Why id the position of freedom inconsiderate? This summer, in the U.S., the reaction to the Wuhan Plague Of Doom has killed tens of thousands more people than died in previous summers. This is in addition to the number that is attributed to the Wuhan Plague From Hell itself. How inconsiderate of you to be unconcerned about each and every one of those deaths.

    Proper mask usage along with frequent hand washing, trying to limit touching one’s face, social distancing, etc. all seem pretty simple acts.

    But these acts, when mandatory, have also limited our freedom. Each and every directive from government limits freedom.

    Look around you. How many people are actually using their masks properly? Those who use them as chin-masks are not using them properly, nor are those who expose their noses or continually adjust their masks as they slip down their faces. The act of wearing a mask seems so simple, but in practice it is much, much more complicated.

    So, if hand washing is such a good preventative — and it is — why are we mandated to wear masks and not to wash our hands? The reason is that the object of the exercise is not to prevent spread (otherwise people would be upset that Cuomo and other governors required nursing homes to take in Wuhan-ailing patients), but is intended to force the public into visible obedience.

    Masks in no way impact my freedom, nor do they dehumanize me or anyone I see wearing them. They certainly don’t make me feel afraid; if they do you, that’s unfortunate.

    The dehumanization is the part where we cannot see facial expressions, the most humanizing feature of humanity.

    If you don’t feel afraid, then why are you afraid to not wear them?

  • David

    Edward – thank you for thoughtful reply. Agree or disagree, I always admire your approach to discussions. Some points…

    You said “Since you are mandated to wear a mask…” All mask mandates are local or state based. I don’t believe I’ve ever said I’m “mandated” to wear a mask. And I 100% know I have never disclosed where I live. How would you know my location???

    I don’t have the medical expertise to argue the amount of effectiveness proper use of a mask provides, so as I’ve noted before, I’ll continue to defer to those whose training involves infectious disease control, public health, etc. (including a family member I’ve mentioned before). As previously noted, those with the expertise tell me the nation will probably never know how effective mask usage could ultimately be. Why? They say three things: The nation will never reach 95% uniform public mask use for the amount of time needed. People are not being successfully educated on the proper handling and use of masks. Third, the supply of masks is insufficient to allow for single-use masks to be used as such, one time and then tossed.

    And for myself, I’d add one more: a spectacular failure of leadership by our president. Trump’s lack of even a flicker of scientific curiosity from day one of his presidency is plain to me. He is without a doubt the most ignorant President of my lifetime. Instead of being a leader, he chose to use the pandemic response as a wedge to further divide and anger portions of the population for his own interests. That’s my opinion. But what is not opinion is Kushner’s own admission in April to Bob Woodward that the President sought from day one to dump the response on the nation’s governors leaving Trump free to claim full credit for the recovery.

    Now as to my individual freedom I’ll say I’m not the “frog” in the much used analogy. Never have been. You may choose to accept and respect that or not. It would be irrational of me to expect to convince others of how how I “feel” in this type of communication format, where we are two individuals typing to each other. This format is fine for arguing facts, presenting evidence and the like, but is a pale imitation of discussing the finer edges of human emotion compared to in person interaction or other visual based methods. Even audio communication would be more productive than people typing back and forth. Or maybe I just wish I was a better and certainly a faster writer (humor intended). Let me just say that you, Mr. Zimmerman and others here are not the only ones who treasure individual freedom. Hope you can respect that.

    Your point about wearing a mask obscuring facial expressions is partially true. Masks don’t cover one’s eyes though nor do they shield observations of body language, or the host of other signals of human interaction.

    My thoughts on this pandemic extend far beyond what I have or could explain by my usual length and infrequent posts here. And those thoughts include my recognition of the numerous and serious impacts to human health that arose from the social disruption caused by the pandemic from causes not tied to infection by coved-19. For you to say I’m inconsiderate of these impacts (including fatalities) or that I’m unaware is WRONG. Please accept that.

    Lastly, you asked if I’m unafraid why continue to wear a mask? I wear a mask to hopefully protect others if I were infected and shedding virus but not showing symptoms as counseled by those whose job is handling infectious diseases. I don’t enjoy wearing them. In the final analysis though, it is a small thing to do to maybe help protect my fellow man.

    As always, my best wishes to you Edward and good health to you and all here.

  • David: I do know your general location, Chicago, so we both know you are mandated by your Democratic Party leaders to use masks. You aren’t doing it by choice, you are required to, which means your freedom has been circumscribed.

    How does the water feel there in Chicago? Getting a bit hot I think.

    All written with good humor.

  • Lillie

    I have refused to wear a mask from the beginning. When we were still in a learning curve with Covid, I stayed home. When the politics started trumping science and common sense, I resumed my normal activities- unbound.
    When asked about it, I just say, “Someone has to be the first person to start throwing the tea into the harbor. Come join my tea party!”

  • David

    Mr. Zimmerman:

    Does this sight have a terms of use? Does this sight have a cookie policy? The only thing I have ever been able to find is that you don’t publish people’s email address.

    When did I agree and grant you permission THAT YOU COULD PUBLICLY POST where you think I live?????

    And WHEN DID I EVER agree that’s okay for you to share that in private with Edward or anyone, if that is what you have done, let alone put it into a post????

    I can not begin to explain how disappointed I am in you actions. For someone who claims to be an advocate of personal freedom, your actions towards me indicate something far far different.

  • David

    “Site” not “sight” twice in my previous post. Upset I guess.

  • Cotour

    Last night I was having an email conversation with one of my Democrat friends who despises Trump and of course the conversation drifts into politics. My friend is always pushing the “Trump is Putin’s puppet” narrative, and so I sent him this direct Putin quote on the subject of the Democrats and their Liberal, now Leftist direction and his observations on the two. This quote directly refutes his assertion, and like the Democrats they accuse you of doing what they are indeed doing.

    “ The truth is a hard female dog :

    V. Putin: “First, the Democratic Party is traditionally closer to the so-called liberal values, closer to Social Democratic ideas, if compared to Europe. And it was from the Social Democratic environment that the Communist Party evolved,”.

    And this was his reply: “I told you previously not to send me any of your political propaganda, got it!?”.

    Well, I have to tell you all, that really upset me. I took that so personally, it really, really hurt me to the core. All I was doing was citing a direct quote from Vladimir Putin himself, he said it, not I. Putin understands perfectly, but my friend does not understand that the American Democrat party is without doubt closely associated with the exact same philosophy as Communist Russia, that is without doubt and is unarguable.

    What am I going to do? My feelings are so deeply hurt and I apparently have unconsciously very deeply hurt my friend with what I must assume is my inappropriate what I thought was just the truth and honesty. My friend, who I did not realize was so sensitive and so unstable related to his political position that he struck out at me in anger. I did that, my guilt is beyond understanding I think I might seek professional help. What is wrong with me?

    I suppose that I should not have forced what I see as an honest interpretation of what I see as being truth and reality, my citing the likes of the Communist leader, Vladimir Putin and his honest opinions about the ties that the Democrats indeed have to the Communist beliefs in the world. What should I do, I am lost here. What if my friend does not like me any more? Might he not talk to me again? I am really besides myself with emotion and this massive guilt. Things have become so dark in my life, I did not sleep all night.

    PS: Bernard, thinking of you while you are in the BTB purgatory. (I have also been there.) The Zman, he is such a stern and mean person sometimes. If there is one person on this web cite that can really hurt your feelings it is the Zman. I have no hope that he will be changing any time soon. I put up with him and I am happy to see that both you and David are here and will stay no matter what to tell the other side of story. Have strength and I hope your not too traumatized by this unfair punitive action.

    Again, thinking of you, all the best, and remember…………………..Bernard………………MAGA ;)

  • David: My, my, such overwrought outrage. I also do not for a second believe that you are unaware that unless you use a VPN your ip address is public knowledge. Every website you visit knows where you live. So does Google, which quite aggressively uses that knowledge in targeting ads to you. For me to look up your ip is hardly a big deal. Everyone does it.

    Also, I told no one where you live, and you know it. Saying you live somewhere in the Chicago area tells no one anything personal about you. But I did tell everyone that your claim that you freely wear a mask was not quite accurate. I suspect that’s the real source of your outrage.

  • wayne

    On the total consumer upside here–no annoying adverts or pop-ups, or stuff that won’t go away. The format is crisp & clean and loads quickly, and nobody is trying to harvest your email address, and the content is free.
    This is one of the least intrusive sites I visit, and I’m totally confident my information isn’t being exploited for a few pennies. (personally, I come for the Space and I hang around for the Politics.)
    On the webmaster side— if you’ve ever run a website before; part of what you pay for with hosting is analytics, and that covers nuts-n-bolts information all the way up to your IP address [and beyond with some ($$) add-ons. ]The website owner knows what OS your computer runs (or if you’re on a smart-phone), what browser you used, what screen resolution, if you came via a Search or directly typed in the address, where you were immediately before & after your session, etc., etc., etc.

  • Cotour


    David was attempting to say that the Zman Doxed him.

    Shook him a bit that someone knows generally where he is typing from. He felt threatened.

  • Cotour

    Where does it all go with “Concerned” and hyper helpful people like David, Bernard, Joe Biden and the likes of governor Gretchen Whitmer? All Democrats, all supporters of the Left.

    You will comply, whether you think its the correct decision for you and your family or not, you will comply. Just like China.

  • commodude

    That basic data is in every packet your computer sends out. (IP, OS, browser, ad nauseum)

    There is no privacy on the interwebz.

    It doesn’t take any sleuthing at all, you just have to have something to decode the packet data.

  • sippin_bourbon


    We “will never know how useful masks could be because the country will not ever get to the point of 95% usage in public for 6-8 weeks because of the actions from the jump of Trump”

    When asked he has said he “all for masks.” See the town hall with Guthrie.
    He has never said do not wear them. He has never outright mandated it, because he does not have the authority to make such a mandate. Biden seems to think he will, as he says he will order it.

    The idea that Trump does not want people to wear masks is an MSM lie.

  • Edward

    This is what happens when people don’t know what science is. They don’t recognize what it isn’t, so they become gullible when someone says “the science says.” Thus, they believe people who support their biases rather than those who support the actual science. The actual science, for decades, showed that masks do not do much to stop viruses, and not enough to justify wearing masks. No science was performed to show the effects of mask mandates, but we have seen that masks make people feel safer than they should and that they do things that they should not do, risking further the spread of disease. This is why this past summer Wuhan virus spread so much during a time when it should not have been spreading. People had a false sense of security, and the lockdowns kept us indoors, where virus spread occurs most.

    David wrote: “As previously noted, those with the expertise tell me the nation will probably never know how effective mask usage could ultimately be.

    Actually, we already do know from decades of research that individual masks worn properly do not have any real effect on the spread of viruses. We know that mere cloth face coverings have even less effect. What we don’t know is the amount of harm from the mass, incorrect, use of masks. Using an entire population as Guinnea Pigs is an abuse of ethics. What is more is the lack of a control group or even of a research plan. 95%mask usage will tell us nothing useful. (By the way, studies are showing 90% usage in several areas, when people are in social settings.)

    We also know that this summer more people had died of non-Wuhan Plague causes than in previous summers. Whether masks had an effect on this greater death rate is a good question that probably cannot be answered due to the lousy data collection methods we are using to understand this disease or the consequences of the horrific reaction to it.

    Instead of being a leader, he chose to use the pandemic response as a wedge to further divide and anger portions of the population for his own interests.

    Actually, that is what the Democrats have done. Trump went to great lengths to get ventilators and hospital facilities and supplies to affected areas, even Democratic areas. Cuaom and Newsom are two governors who praised Trump for his quick reaction and his ability to get them what they needed in a timely manner. Indeed, Democratic areas are clearly attempting to make the effects of Wuhan worse than they should be, given that the data shows that these Democratic reactions to Wuhan are killing so many Americans. Making things worse, rather than better, are a way of increasing dissent against Trump, and David fell for it. How outrageous is it for one political party to allow greater numbers of deaths just to get to their political opponent. Clearly, the Democratic Party cares less for the American people than they do for gaining power.

    What kind of leadership is that?

    Why, wait. This is exactly the kind of leadership that David accuses Trump of.

    You wrote: “My freedom is not affected one tiny bit.”
    and: “Now as to my individual freedom I’ll say I’m not the “frog” in the much used analogy. Never have been. You may choose to accept and respect that or not.

    This is how people lose their freedom. They do not understand what freedom is, so they allow others to take it from them without realizing that they have lost anything. Like you are doing, they practically give away their freedom, or a portion of it. When someone has the power to direct you to do something, then you are not as free as you believe yourself to be. As they take away your freedoms little by little, you slowly become more limited in what you are allowed to do. Eventually, you are completely controlled, or boiled. Just like the frog, you don’t realize it.

    Before mask madness — er — mandates, you were free to wear what you wanted. With mask mandates, you are not. Your freedom has been limited, even if only a tiny bit.

    This same problem comes from people who say “there ought to be a law.” Each law limits freedoms. It may solve one person’s problem — or not — but it does so at the expense of everyone’s freedom. To the one person, it may look like a net benefit, but then the law that solves someone else’s problem limits the first person’s freedom. One problem may have been mitigated, perhaps by a tiny bit, making that one person feeling good, but it adds problems to many, many others. Eventually, there are shelves of books of laws, too many for us all to follow, with many laws contradicting other laws so that much of what we do breaks one law or another; both cannot be followed at once. Being a law abiding citizen becomes impossible.

    There ought to be a law against saying “there ought to be a law.” But then, that would just reduce our freedoms.

    But what is not opinion is Kushner’s own admission in April to Bob Woodward that the President sought from day one to dump the response on the nation’s governors leaving Trump free to claim full credit for the recovery.

    Excellent paraphrase, but what did Kushner really say?

    The problem with that is the president does not have the power that the paraphrase suggests. Only the governors do, and they had to declare states of emergency in order to get those powers. It is very interesting, David, that you believe that the president should have such power, which can only result in nationwide directives in order to handle the disease, even in areas where such directives would be counterproductive. This is a problem with the governors controlling their whole states the same way when individual counties or cities were the only places that needed such controls (or didn’t).

    My thoughts on this pandemic extend far beyond what I have or could explain by my usual length and infrequent posts here.

    Yet I am able to continually get in my outrage over these deaths and the horrific effects of the terrible reaction to Wuhan.

    I wear a mask to hopefully protect others if I were infected and shedding virus but not showing symptoms as counseled by those whose job is handling infectious diseases.

    Which is to say that you are afraid. You are afraid of spreading a virus that you don’t have. This is one of the fears that Robert means.

  • pzatchok

    How long must we ware these masks?
    Ask yourself that.

    First it was just in public and just for a month at most. That will kill off the virus.
    Well that didn’t work in ANY nation or state around the world. Even the isolated ones.

    Then it was for a second round of masks since the first didn’t work. That didn’t work either.

    Now its until we get a vaccine.
    That could take years. Are you willing to keep your children isolated for the next 5 years. Home schooled and not participating in ANY extra curricular activities?

    All for a disease that for 90% of the people don’t even know that had it and treatment for most that do is to be sent home for two weeks and come back for a test.
    At this rate it will take three years to get herd immunity. I read someplace that they tested a general group of people on the street and found that only 20% had immunity.

  • Cotour

    From the real world:

    Just spoke with my ICU nurse friend and asked her how many people are in the hospital today with Covid? Not in the ICU, but in the hospital with Covid?

    Her reply: 60.

    I asked her: Is this considered the second wave? She said. Yes, for us anyway. For other places in the country its still the first wave.

    Then she added: I have faith in the American people and hopefully we can get someone in the white House that believes in science! She continued: I can not take any more, I am so burnt out with this. I will have to leave.

    I asked where are you going to go? I don’t know, but somewhere.

    I just laughed and said: What are you going to do if Trump is the president for another 4 years? That will not happen!

    OK, if you say so.

    In her opinion its all Trump all the time. If Trump was able to make everyone wear a mask, if Trump was able to limit everyones ability to operate, to be in the world then this all would be soooo much different and the virus would be gone by now. I suppose that is the extension here for her.

    The virus will be gone when the virus runs itself out in our population. And what pretty much anyone, politician, priest, doctor or voo doo healer says or does will have little to no effect on it. The virus does not care.

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