A Catholic archbishop chooses sides, and picks Trump
This might be a first: A Catholic archbishop, Carlo Maria Viganò, has written a public letter condemning very forcefully the “deep state” and those supporting the riots, the looting, the lockdowns, and the race-baiting of the last few months, and telling Trump he is fighting on the side of the angels.
In society, Mr. President, these two opposing realities co-exist as eternal enemies, just as God and Satan are eternal enemies. And it appears that the children of darkness – whom we may easily identify with the deep state which you wisely oppose and which is fiercely waging war against you in these days – have decided to show their cards, so to speak, by now revealing their plans. They seem to be so certain of already having everything under control that they have laid aside that circumspection that until now had at least partially concealed their true intentions. The investigations already under way will reveal the true responsibility of those who managed the Covid emergency not only in the area of health care but also in politics, the economy, and the media. We will probably find that in this colossal operation of social engineering there are people who have decided the fate of humanity, arrogating to themselves the right to act against the will of citizens and their representatives in the governments of nations.
We will also discover that the riots in these days were provoked by those who, seeing that the virus is inevitably fading and that the social alarm of the pandemic is waning, necessarily have had to provoke civil disturbances, because they would be followed by repression which, although legitimate, could be condemned as an unjustified aggression against the population. The same thing is also happening in Europe, in perfect synchrony. It is quite clear that the use of street protests is instrumental to the purposes of those who would like to see someone elected in the upcoming presidential elections who embodies the goals of the deep state and who expresses those goals faithfully and with conviction. It will not be surprising if, in a few months, we learn once again that hidden behind these acts of vandalism and violence there are those who hope to profit from the dissolution of the social order so as to build a world without freedom: Solve et Coagula, as the Masonic adage teaches. [emphasis in original]
This statement by Viganò is significant in that during the past few elections the Catholic church remained disgustingly neutral, even after it was quite clear that the party of Obama was aggressively working to restrict the freedom of religious people, especially in the context of the homosexual agenda. It was as if the order had gone out from on high that they were not to take any sides politically, either out of fear of losing their tax-free status, or (more likely) because too many powerful church leaders cared not a whit for the principles as outlined in the Bible and were in fact in favor of the left’s agenda.
I wonder if the recent madness related to the Wuhan flu and George Floyd has finally caused the scales to fall from their eyes.
Hat tip Tom Biggar.
On Christmas Eve 1968 three Americans became the first humans to visit another world. What they did to celebrate was unexpected and profound, and will be remembered throughout all human history. Genesis: the Story of Apollo 8, Robert Zimmerman's classic history of humanity's first journey to another world, tells that story, and it is now available as both an ebook and an audiobook, both with a foreword by Valerie Anders and a new introduction by Robert Zimmerman.
The ebook is available everywhere for $5.99 (before discount) at amazon, or direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit. If you buy it from ebookit you don't support the big tech companies and the author gets a bigger cut much sooner.
The audiobook is also available at all these vendors, and is also free with a 30-day trial membership to Audible.
"Not simply about one mission, [Genesis] is also the history of America's quest for the moon... Zimmerman has done a masterful job of tying disparate events together into a solid account of one of America's greatest human triumphs."--San Antonio Express-News
This might be a first: A Catholic archbishop, Carlo Maria Viganò, has written a public letter condemning very forcefully the “deep state” and those supporting the riots, the looting, the lockdowns, and the race-baiting of the last few months, and telling Trump he is fighting on the side of the angels.
In society, Mr. President, these two opposing realities co-exist as eternal enemies, just as God and Satan are eternal enemies. And it appears that the children of darkness – whom we may easily identify with the deep state which you wisely oppose and which is fiercely waging war against you in these days – have decided to show their cards, so to speak, by now revealing their plans. They seem to be so certain of already having everything under control that they have laid aside that circumspection that until now had at least partially concealed their true intentions. The investigations already under way will reveal the true responsibility of those who managed the Covid emergency not only in the area of health care but also in politics, the economy, and the media. We will probably find that in this colossal operation of social engineering there are people who have decided the fate of humanity, arrogating to themselves the right to act against the will of citizens and their representatives in the governments of nations.
We will also discover that the riots in these days were provoked by those who, seeing that the virus is inevitably fading and that the social alarm of the pandemic is waning, necessarily have had to provoke civil disturbances, because they would be followed by repression which, although legitimate, could be condemned as an unjustified aggression against the population. The same thing is also happening in Europe, in perfect synchrony. It is quite clear that the use of street protests is instrumental to the purposes of those who would like to see someone elected in the upcoming presidential elections who embodies the goals of the deep state and who expresses those goals faithfully and with conviction. It will not be surprising if, in a few months, we learn once again that hidden behind these acts of vandalism and violence there are those who hope to profit from the dissolution of the social order so as to build a world without freedom: Solve et Coagula, as the Masonic adage teaches. [emphasis in original]
This statement by Viganò is significant in that during the past few elections the Catholic church remained disgustingly neutral, even after it was quite clear that the party of Obama was aggressively working to restrict the freedom of religious people, especially in the context of the homosexual agenda. It was as if the order had gone out from on high that they were not to take any sides politically, either out of fear of losing their tax-free status, or (more likely) because too many powerful church leaders cared not a whit for the principles as outlined in the Bible and were in fact in favor of the left’s agenda.
I wonder if the recent madness related to the Wuhan flu and George Floyd has finally caused the scales to fall from their eyes.
Hat tip Tom Biggar.
On Christmas Eve 1968 three Americans became the first humans to visit another world. What they did to celebrate was unexpected and profound, and will be remembered throughout all human history. Genesis: the Story of Apollo 8, Robert Zimmerman's classic history of humanity's first journey to another world, tells that story, and it is now available as both an ebook and an audiobook, both with a foreword by Valerie Anders and a new introduction by Robert Zimmerman.
The ebook is available everywhere for $5.99 (before discount) at amazon, or direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit. If you buy it from ebookit you don't support the big tech companies and the author gets a bigger cut much sooner.
The audiobook is also available at all these vendors, and is also free with a 30-day trial membership to Audible.
"Not simply about one mission, [Genesis] is also the history of America's quest for the moon... Zimmerman has done a masterful job of tying disparate events together into a solid account of one of America's greatest human triumphs."--San Antonio Express-News
Trump is a presbyterian! His mother was a Norwegian from the Hebridean islands. Presbyterians are the most anti-catholics around. They are all out against any hierarchy of priests and bishops and such, and against ornaments and temples and rituals and funny clothes. And without that, there exists no catholic church! These are the protestants of the protestants.
Their most prominent spokesman is John Milton who authored Paradise Lost (read it, it’s fantastic!) and was a leader of the glorious revolution where the catholic king of England was decapitated. That led to the fruition (on a foundation earlier laid by Shakespeare and Magna carta and so on) of England as a libertarian country (he hated parliamentarianism, which he calls “pandemonium”, rule of all the devils, in Paradise Lost). He was also all for freedom of religion, which was a brave thing in the 1600s. Freedom of religion for everyone except for catholics, jews, muslims and atheists. So that kind of narrows it down a bit.
A pope endorsing a presbyterian? Something must’ve changed in the last 400 years…
Unfortunately Archbishop Vigano (who is retired and at odds with the pope anyway) reflects the thinking of a minority of bishops. His recent history of conflict with the Vatican is interesting, and too involved to be summarized here. But with the current pontificate, there is no truer adage than “personnel is policy”. The difference among bishops and cardinals appointed by Pope Francis and those appointed by his predecessor (with a few notable exceptions) is striking. Taking a hard left turn…
*A catholic BISHOP endorsing a presbyterian*
It should be.
That’s strange enough. That bishop should convert. The pope already endorses islamists, so that’s not as strange. Christians are the most persecuted group in the world last decade, with 100,000s murdered by the muslims and socialists. And through their authoritarian brain substitute, the pope, all catholics define that as a good thing.
“And through their authoritarian brain substitute, the pope, all catholics define that as a good thing.”
And speaking of being anti-catholic…
Catholicism is socialism applied to religion. The whole ritually theatrical ridiculous church-pope thing as a parasiting and censoring and propagandistic bureaucratic middleman between the Creator and the individual Being. The proliferation of pedophilia among catholic priests is no surprise to me. That is one of the main purposes of the catholic church! What is it good for?
Actually, freedom of religion was the main reason for many Scandinavians (1/4 of all Swedes) to emigrate to America. What the heck are the catholics doing there??? Their presence in the US is a threat to the very foundation and exceptionalist idea of the US. Couldn’t they stay at home in Ireland and Italy and ritually pray to their superficial and false symbols?
Since the subject has arisen, let’s not forget that Maryland was founded by Catholics fleeing religious persecution in England, as were the Puritans in New England, the Quakers in PA, etc.
Let’s also remember that the trinity that brought down the Soviet Union was Reagan, Thatcher and John Paul II.
For a fuller and more accurate view of the Catholic Church than has been presented here, let me suggest:
Bearing False Witness: Debunking Centuries of Anti-Catholic History by Rodney Stark.
Stark is a protestant religious scholar. I found the book fascinating, informative and well researched.
From the Amazon blurb:
In each chapter, Stark takes on a well-established anti-Catholic myth, gives a fascinating history of how each myth became the conventional wisdom, and presents a startling picture of the real truth. For example,
“Instead of the Spanish Inquisition being an anomaly of torture and murder of innocent people persecuted for “imaginary” crimes such as witchcraft and blasphemy, Stark argues that not only did the Spanish Inquisition spill very little blood, but it was a major force in support of moderation and justice.
Instead of Pope Pius XII being apathetic or even helpful to the Nazi movement, such as to merit the title, “Hitler’s Pope,” Stark shows that the campaign to link Pope Pius XII to Hitler was initiated by the Soviet Union, presumably in hopes of neutralizing the Vatican in post-World War II affairs. Pope Pius XII was widely praised for his vigorous and devoted efforts to saving Jewish lives during the war.
Instead of the Dark Ages being understood as a millennium of ignorance and backwardness inspired by the Catholic Church’s power, Stark argues that the whole notion of the “Dark Ages” was an act of pride perpetuated by anti-religious intellectuals who were determined to claim that theirs was the era of “Enlightenment.”
In the end, readers will not only have a more accurate history of the Catholic Church, they will come to understand why it became unfairly maligned for so long. Bearing False Witness is a compelling and sobering account of how egotism and ideology often work together to give us a false truth. “
Tom Biggar wrote, “Stark argues that not only did the Spanish Inquisition spill very little blood, but it was a major force in support of moderation and justice.”
Though I expect there to be much truth in this statement, it is a mistake to think the Spanish Inquisition, linked the Spanish royalty of the time, was not oppressive. Ask any Jew who lived in Spain in 1491, and was kicked out in 1492, a decision imposed by the rulers with the hardy endorsement and encouragement of the Inquisition.
Catholic priests are just like any other person on the planet. They have a wide degree of differing opinions on everything but their religion.
Some think we should legalize a wide variety of now illegal drugs. Some want more control on all drugs.
My local Catholic church for a few years had a young priest. You would think he was just like any other priest, a bit stayed and a little cloistered. Nope. he was a Harley riding leather wearing biker who rode in every local rally he could hoping to save just one more. Holding Mass in parking lots and fields.
A few can drink everyone under the table, a few would never touch the stuff.
My one high school friend who is now a priest went vegan for several years. One smoked brisket ended that.
The point is the catholic church is not one monolithic system.
On one side you have Viganò speaking in favor of Trump and freedom, on the other side you have the Current Archbishop of DC Wilton Gregory, lying about not knowing about Trumps visit to JP2 shrine, then writing an angry letter about how is panties are in a bunch.
https://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/archbishop-gregory-invited-to-jpii-shrine-trump-event-days-before-public-st
And now Gregory is ordering his priest and other Catholics organizations to be political pawns and demonstrate for BLM or face consequences. ‘
https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/dc-archbishop-orders-priests-to-protest-president
Archbishop Gregory was in charge of the US bishop conference in 2002 when the Boston Globe story broke on priest sex abuse. The man Archbishop Gregory put in charge to address the priest sex abuse. Why its now known serial predator Former Cardinal of DC Theodore McCarrick. To say nothing of his terrible non-Catholic record before coming to DC.
https://pjmedia.com/faith/debra-heine/2019/04/03/report-pope-francis-planning-to-appoint-controversial-archbishop-wilton-gregory-as-archbishop-of-washington-d-c-n102766
Bob,
The entire first chapter is about antisemitism and the church’s role in it, warts and all. It ain’t what we have been told.
In re the Inquisition. Quoting from the book:
I confess that when I first encountered the claim that not only did the Spanish Inquisition spill very little blood but that it mainly was a major force in support of moderation and justice, I dismissed it as another exercise in outlandish, attention-seeking revisionism. Upon further investigation, I was stunned to discover that in fact, among other things, it was the Inquisition that prevented the murderous witchcraft craze, which flourished in most of Europe during the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, from spreading to Spain and Italy. Instead of burning witches, the inquisitors sent a few people to be hanged because they had burned witches.
For the record, other than weddings and funerals, I haven’t been in a church in years. (Don’t know if that’s good or bad, just a fact.)
I agree that the current pope is terrible. Interestingly, he is a product of the soviet disinformation that gave us liberation theology. (Which is neither liberating nor godly.)
The pope (I refuse to spell what I despise with a capital letter) is opportunistic socialism (sort of socialism, Fürstentum is the old fashioned phrase). He is always an opportunist. During Reagan it was anti-Soviet that was opportune (and thank God for that!) Today it is islam that the pope favors.
My disregard for catholicism has nothing to do with the inquisition. As has been said here, the church didn’t execute anyone. They just held their trials (sometimes with torture, which was the CSI kind of crime investigation of the time, for all kind of suspected crimes, that was nothing specific to the church so they are not to be blamed for that). And then they left it up to the Prince to administer whatever punishment, or none, as he wished. The church condemned the soul, not the body.
What is wrong with catholicism is the distracting superficiality! Kill the pope-Führer, fire all the priests, burn the churches, get rid of the decorative gold and ridiculous rituals like singing songs in latin and burning smelling spices and wearing funny hats. So that we instead can talk rationally about the ideas that Jesus Christ came up with. That’s what Protestantism is about. And among them most of all the Presbyterians seem to me, because of the glorious revolution in which they played an important role, leading to the British parliamentarianism which certainly inspired the founding fathers.
What is the pope-Führer doing about the mass murder of Christians in the Middle East and their oppression in China (where more are Christian than members of the communist party)? Nothing!
The pope (I refuse to spell what I despise with a capital letter) is opportunistic socialism (sort of socialism, Fürstentum is the old fashioned phrase). He is always an opportunist. During Reagan it was anti-Soviet that was opportune (and thank God for that!) Today it is islam that the pope favors.
My disregard for catholicism has nothing to do with the inquisition. As has been said here, the church didn’t execute anyone. They just held their trials (sometimes with torture, which was the CSI kind of crime investigation of the time, for all kind of suspected crimes, that was nothing specific to the church so they are not to be blamed for that). And then they left it up to the Prince to administer whatever punishment, or none, as he wished. The church condemned the soul, not the body.
What is wrong with catholicism is the distracting superficiality! Kill the pope-Führer, fire all the priests, burn the churches, get rid of the decorative gold and ridiculous rituals like singing songs in latin and burning smelling spices and wearing funny hats. So that we instead can talk rationally about the ideas that Jesus Christ came up with. That’s what Protestantism is about. And among them most of all the Presbyterians seem to me, because of the glorious revolution in which they played an important role, leading to the British parliamentarianism which certainly inspired the founding fathers.
What is the pope-Führer doing about the mass murder of Christians in the Middle East and their oppression in China (where more are Christian than members of the communist party)? Nothing! So… Catholics ARE the enemies of Christianity in the world today! The 30 years war broke out for less, now all catholics just don’t care, they just obey their pope-Führer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bRcQJcBZ6U
The end with “I don’t bring my community pictures” is EXACTLY the at least original idea of presbyterianism as I understand it! Christianity as a personal thing, not as a fake social proof to brag about in order to greedily gain advantages against others.
– Something was accidentally copy pasted above, it’s all there but some of it twice, sorry! –
(They need to get a five minute edit option here, everyone gets used to it by using intelligent forums like Stackexchange)
A couple of clips with Trump about the pope:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al6yCSIGK-4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWiPxwppXYc
During his 2016 campaign at a rally that YT censors.
“- Sir, the pope just made a statement!
– The pope? The POPE?? Is it good or bad?
– It’s not good. It’s about the wall.
– The Vatican wall??”
LF,
Pope Francis, was raised in a socialist variation called Peronism. And it reflects in his policies. He gets significant push back internally.
Church is not now suddenly socialist because of this. The Roman Catholic Church is, in fact, a
monarchy. The Papal tiara is a crown (a triple tiara actually). But he is bound by faith, and canon law, which he can change, but does so carefully. But he is an elected monarch.
As for the rest of your anti-catholic statements: I have heard them all before. There are other faith traditions. Or people can choose to be agnostic. Or even atheist. But whenever I visit other churches (which I do often for various reasons) I am always amazed by the amount of time spent not on “the direct connection between the individual and the Almighty”, but rather long lectures on “why the Catholics are all wrong”.
This would seem to me, the wrong focus.
The distinction must be made between Christianity, which is a philosophy preached by Jesus of light and love at its core, and the Catholic religion, which is essentially as business / political model and has been demonstrated through history as being an instrument of death and destruction in the name of God.
Two very different but very closely associated things and this difference is what the Left focuses on and divides with. And they have a point, especially if you are gay or differently oriented and excluded in some way shape or form from the norm.
A distinction must be made because the conflation of the two becomes some that can not be overcome in argument.
Cotour-
Very nicely stated!
The whole selling indulgences for gold however, was pretty lame. That’s one way to blow your street cred straight to the Underworld.
Holy cow,– I was baptized a Presbyterian but it all was so much mumbo-jumbo to me, and I say that most respectfully. I was in mental-health for a long time, Religion serves a valid purpose in holding the fabric of civilization together. (The opposite can be argued, as well.)
Tangentially– Michael Malice, (“Dear Reader…”) describes the hardcore left, as the ‘evangelical-left.’
pondering Big Thoughts….
Jordan Peterson / Akira
MeaningWave
“I Act As If God Exists”
https://youtu.be/SG7mKcIVvQQ
6:44
Back to the letter. Am I hearing that we should reject the letter because the author doesn’t pass our high standards?
Sounds like LocalFluff would like to become Swartzentruber Amish.
No church just a common house in many cases just someones house.
Worship begins with a short sermon by one of several preachers or the bishop of the church district, followed by scripture reading and prayer (this prayer is silent in some communities), then another, longer sermon. The service is interspersed with hymns sung without instrumental accompaniment or harmony.
@pzatchok
That’s how people in Sweden (and I suppose most of Europe) conducted service in the 18th century. At home, covertly, with trusted friends.
Because it was formally illegal to even mention the word “God” without the presence of a priest. Even in protestant Sweden! This was a major reason for emigration. It was the symbol of the medieval (catholic) oppression that still remained, even as economic liberalizations set in.
Kings who forced the reformation of Protestantism in part gave in to popular pressure, in part they took the opportunity to replace the power of the pope with their own royal power. The Anglican church is probably the best known example of that. I just appreciate that the reformation got rid of the silly hats and medieval heretic rituals of those ridiculous middlemen “in Rome”.
The only reason that Rome has anything at all to do with Jesus Christ, is because their provincial governor condemned him to death! (After a popular vote that appreciated it). So that’s the root of Roman catholicism. Not very convincing for me in any religious sense, by which I mean contemplating Jesus’ IDEA without all the formalities an protocols and rituals. Who the F* needs a middleman bureaucracy to get his point???
Wow.
LocalFluff: In this comment you come very very VERY close to breaking my rules about obscenities. You know I don’t tolerate this. You know that I suspended you for a week over a previous violation, the result of which is that you stopped commenting here for many months out of anger.
I really don’t want to ban you forever, but you are now warned. You have violated my rules twice before. The rules are clear. Third time and you are gone forever.
And I repeat, I sincerely don’t want to ban you. But I will if you do it again. You are warned.
@Robert Zimmerman
What? What???
How is this historic criticism of the catholic church breaking your rules?
You need to explain your rules. Otherwise you are just like BLM.
Equality is a good thing. But why do we need a socialist government to accomplish it? Especially considering their total failures.
I’m all for the ethics of Jesus Christ. But why do we need a church bureaucracy and a muslim loving pope-führer for that purpose?
It seems to me that you are lacking in knowledge of the history of protestantism and lack the interest to learn anything about it. Thus one could not understand the bloody liberation of Christianity in Europe in the 16th and 17th centuries, especially in England, and thus not understanding the basis for the foundation of the USA. The US is from the onset all about anti-catholisim.
Can you explain yourself, or will you just click your little version of Zuckerberg’s censor button?
LF
I believe he is referring to your choice of vocabulary, not your overall rant.
LocalFluff: See this post: No obscenities on Behind the Black. These rules are also very clearly outlined in the box in the right column just above the box showing the last fifteen comments.
You broke these rules twice before, first here and then here
Reread the last sentence in this most recent comment. You don’t type in an obscenity, but you do make it too obvious that you are using one. This is not acceptable to me. I haven’t deleted it because it is just on the edge.
I also haven’t yet banned you forever, because I really really enjoy your comments. However, you just can’t seem to get this. It is time you tried.
“wallow in barbarism and ill behavior”
It is your little site here. You can shut me out at your will. You’ve done it before and I don’t care much. It’s up to your caveman whim.
But as you choose to discuss catholisism, here, I do discuss catholicism, here. But then you suddenly don’t want to discuss catholisicm anymore. And aren’t you complaining about socialist oppression??? Censoring every historic context of it (catholisism and socialism are very similar, each has a pope-Führer and magic rituals).
It is, after all, the catholic “priests” who systematically rape children, not I who point it out as part of the anti-logic ant anti-Christ of the socialist muslim catholic church. I Asked what this middleman organization is good for. Where’s the answerer? House arrest for Galilei?? Really? Still today.
Beyond Black Matter, is this the address here, or did I happen to turn into the wrong allay.
LocalFluff: Can you not read? I am not trying to silence your discussion about Catholicism. I am simply requiring you (and everyone) to keep the language civilized and clean. This is not hard to do. Your choice.
LocalFluff wrote:
A catholic BISHOP endorsing a presbyterian? Something must’ve changed in the last 400 years…
Cardinal Vigano wrote:
On the one hand there are those who, although they have a thousand defects and weaknesses, are motivated by the desire to do good, to be honest, to raise a family, to engage in work, to give prosperity to their homeland, to help the needy, and, in obedience to the Law of God, to merit the Kingdom of Heaven.
Perhaps what changed was the recognition that sectarian bigotry and bickering is the work of the devil to divide us, that men and women of good will exist in every faith, and that they should reach out to each other in the fight against evil.
Just a thought.
https://www.catholiceducation.org/en/culture/history/catholic-founding-fathers-the-carroll-family.html
At the time Catholics were not allowed to worship, vote or hold office.
I guess we are going back to that.