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Study: Wearing used mask worse than no mask at all

WHO's do's and don't's for mask use
For the full images, go here and here.

The mask of ignorance: A new study has found that wearing a used mask, even an N95 type, is likely more risky to your health than wearing no mask at all.

Wearing a used mask could be more dangerous than not wearing one at all when it comes to warding off COVID-19, a new study has found.

A new three-layer surgical mask is 65 percent efficient in filtering particles in the air — but when used, that number drops to 25 percent, according to the study published Tuesday in the Physics of Fluids.

Researchers from the University of Massachusetts Lowell and California Baptist University say that masks slow down airflow, making people more susceptible to breathing in particles — and a dirty face mask can’t effectively filter out the tiniest of droplets.

These results are not only not surprising, they are backed up by more than a century of research into mask use for medical purposes. Using masks improperly is not sanitary, and increases your risk for getting ill, as clearly shown by the WHO graphic to the right. The results also illustrate once again that the purpose of mandating mask use has nothing to do with reducing the spread of COVID-19 (which it decidedly has not), but are instead designed to demonstrate the power of our rulers to muzzle and control the population, for the purpose of obtaining power.

Genesis cover

On Christmas Eve 1968 three Americans became the first humans to visit another world. What they did to celebrate was unexpected and profound, and will be remembered throughout all human history. Genesis: the Story of Apollo 8, Robert Zimmerman's classic history of humanity's first journey to another world, tells that story, and it is now available as both an ebook and an audiobook, both with a foreword by Valerie Anders and a new introduction by Robert Zimmerman.

The ebook is available everywhere for $5.99 (before discount) at amazon, or direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit. If you buy it from ebookit you don't support the big tech companies and the author gets a bigger cut much sooner.

The audiobook is also available at all these vendors, and is also free with a 30-day trial membership to Audible.

"Not simply about one mission, [Genesis] is also the history of America's quest for the moon... Zimmerman has done a masterful job of tying disparate events together into a solid account of one of America's greatest human triumphs."--San Antonio Express-News


  • David K

    Let’s be real, it is mostly security theater. Most people are not worried about getting COVID any more than the common cold. They just put on a mask to be allowed to go to the grocery store, walk on a crowded sidewalk, and travel. It is like having a hall pass, nothing more.

  • Dan Sutton

    Is there a way to filter this site? I read it for the stories about space exploration. I don’t want to see nor read the dangerous commentary about politics and even more dangerous medical commentary. This comment will be white-washed away. I would support this site for its space content, but the bad advice and one-sided viewpoints make me cringe.

  • eddie willers

    I don’t want to see nor read the dangerous commentary about politics and even more dangerous medical commentary.

    I’m sure you can find safe spaces on the Internet. It’s huge.

  • David Hawley

    That’s right, Dan Sutton. Bury your head in the sand, and although you like the science of space exploration, you hate the science that tells you you are a sheep, following the orders of your “betters”. Sheep will be sheep….if you don’t like this subject then just don’t read it. Filter out whatever you don’t want to face reality on.

  • Max

    You made me laugh David, (it is mostly security theater)

    I took my brother to the movie theater to get him out of the house. There was only one person to take the card at the concession stand. No tickets, no cash.
    He told us to pick our seats and to make sure we sit only there so that the cleaning woman only had to wipe down that set of seats.

    Then he said we had to wear our masks throughout the show. (We were the only ones in the theater, that had 15 screens, that we could see) My brother, with extreme health problems of Non Hodgkin’s lymph noma, diabetes and overweight said; “I can barely breathe as it is, maybe we should leave…”
    To which the man who already took our money said, if you buy some popcorn, you don’t have to wear them…

    At work, management is getting tired of the masks being seen as a joke. They mandated that everyone must wear the same mask that the company will provide.
    That was three weeks ago and they still haven’t received a mask fitting the requirements to prevent virus infection. They haven’t admitted that there probably isn’t one.
    Mandatory PCR test with a nose swab was started 5 months ago by my employer. A Covid test with a DNA test by a contractor bypassing privacy laws allowing government access without a warrant. I asked why that was necessary? And the guy there wasn’t sure. He asked did you hear about the 10 year old cold case that was solved? You know, the mother-in-law of the guy who owns the jazz basketball team was raped and murdered. The former drug addicts DNA was a match to one of the tests we did.
    We think that certain genomes work differently with some drugs and vaccination. Don’t you wanna have the right drugs that do not cause reaction?
    (That statement can cut two ways. At least they can give me by force whatever it is that will give me the outcome they desire)

    Anyway, the Covid testing contractors used to wear body suits with fitted masks and a battery operated air supply through a thick filter.
    Yesterday I got my mandatory 15 minute quick test that they use now, and the staff we’re in street clothes with the usual blue masks you see everywhere. As soon as I walked in they told me to “put my mask on” to which I pulled my shirt over my nose. They laughed, I signed the release form, then dropped my shirt for them to stick the stick up my nose. (With the resurgence, the mandatory test is now every two weeks)

    Although they were pushing me out of their trailer, I wanted to ask questions I prepared before hand. We went outside and I asked him why they changed to the quick test?
    My employer wanted to know if anyone was infected before the shift started rather than after they infect other people and have to send large groups home.
    Wasn’t the PCR test better?
    Yes, but it took too long and can be manipulated.
    The application protocol was increased beyond specifications and was getting too many false positives. He said that’s what he believes led to the “increase” without an increase in deaths. Average age of death in United States is 72 or 74… He said the average death of a Covid patient is 86.
    Do you see the problem?

    He said; think of the sample amplification is like giving a coworker a ride home and the coworker asks do you smell smoke? You sniff and say no.
    The smokers are on the far side of the building.

    On the way home, he ask you again do you smell smoke? You sniff the air, sniff his clothes, and you say no.
    You pull in his driveway and he ask you again, do you smell smoke? You say you smell blossoms, mowed grass, hot asphalt. No smoke.
    He ask you to come in the garage and tell him what you smell.
    Gasoline, and something bad in the garbage can over there… No smoke.
    Come in the kitchen, do you smell smoke?
    You look around, smell nothing unusual except maybe laundry detergent, pet smells, but the range hood over the stove smells faintly of old burnt food, maybe years old. Then he led you to an incense burner that is not lit.

    Rubs his finger in the ash and shove it up your nose and says do you smell it now?

    This is amplification, even the oldest fragments of a disease, no matter how small or how old, can be found. Even in tested tapwater.

    I asked; is that why you guys only wear the thin mask now? He said yeah, we couldn’t wear that stuff 24 seven which means we get exposed anyway from pets, bird droppings, family members, or the hundreds of people we see here every day. If we find a positive test, we all get retested the next day. Soon it will be like Gattaca, you put your finger in a tester it samples your blood and tells us who you are and if you have drugs in your system or health issues, and tells you if you’re infected on the spot. No more masks. At least an election can’t be faked, if we still have elections…

  • Max

    Dan, is there a way to filter the site?

    Yes, and it will soon be mandatory whether you like it or not. Here’s an article that they’re going after Australia for not complying with the fact checkers.

    Un authorized truth will not be tolerated, facts are OK, as long as they are approved facts.
    Our fact checkers will tell you everything you need to know, ignore all other sources of information. Report to your section leader any misinformation that you encounter. Or any people that you think are thinking of miss information. (you can usually smell it)

    First case reported, that got past the censors…

    Was she wearing her mask?
    And to think the annual flu shot is only 40 to 50% effective…

  • john hare

    The way I filter this site is to skip the articles I don’t care about. I care nothing about Mars so I skip those articles. Very simple and affects no one else. I have skepticism about some of the political and some of the medical commentary, so I skim this site for info I may not have and visit sites with opposing viewpoints. Again affects no one else. I try to only comment when I have something relevant to say, though any are free to differ.

  • eddie willers

    if you buy some popcorn, you don’t have to wear them…

    God bless capitalism.

  • Kyle

    For those true believers out there who are all for mandatory masks, I would recommend the book “Very, Very, Very Dreadful, The Influenza Pandemic of 1918” by Albert Marrin. The audio book version narrated by Jim Frangione is fantastic. History is great. This book was written in 2018, its apolitical, doesn’t have an agenda, and was written before the panic porn culture of the Covid-era. If it was written now it probably would be banned. And if I never read it, I probably would be more inclined to believe in wide spread mask use as a preventative means..

    The book talks about the influenza pandemic of 1918. If there ever was a time to loose yourself in fear over a virus it was that year. Unlike COVID-19 which is only deadly to the aged ill, the Spanish flu was deadly to even the young and health, upwards estimate puts the death toll at 100 million globally. The elites of the day imposed city wide lockdowns and mandated cloth masks must be worn at all times, failure to do so would result in hefty fines or jail time. And the masks did nothing. The book talks about how silly it was for the people of the day to think that simply cloth was enough to block the virus, the virus is so much infinitesimally smaller than then the stitching of the fabric that the virus could pass right thru the mask as if it wasnt even there.

    Fast forward 2 years later, and the “pros from dover” are all for masks. They must not read much history. And its not just this book that talks about how ineffective the masks were in the 1918 pandemic. Any in depth book about it would talk about how ineffetive masks are. My wife has a graphic novel about it written just last year for her jr high classroom, even it talks about how masks dont work, it likens the virus and masks to flies buzzing through a chain-link fence. The information and knowledge is there, you just have to read it.

  • D. Messier

    Countries like Australia and New Zealand who have controlled the pandemic have opened back up. They didn’t take the measures they did out of some authoritarian desire to control the population. They didn’t continue the restrictions longer than they had to. The same thing will happen here whenever we get this under control.

    The theory that this is a giant conspiracy to oppress you is bizarre. This is a pandemic. It’s worse than the seasonal flu. These posts are just so ill informed and off the mark.

  • “. . . when it comes to warding off COVID-19, . . ”

    Uh, that’s not how masks work. They protect others from you, not you from others.

    From the CDC: “Wearing cloth masks can help prevent people infected with the virus that causes COVID-19 from spreading the virus.”

    From the CDC: ” Based on current evidence, scientists believe that persons with mild to moderate COVID-19 may shed replication-competent SARS-CoV-2 for up to 10 days following symptom onset, . . ”

    Recovery time after symptom onset is about two weeks. Symptomatic individuals are going stay home. Seen a sick person in public this year?

    Which leads to a simple observation. If you are not symptomatic, you are not contagious. Ergo, masks are completely useless in stopping the spread of COVID-19 unless you have an active case of the disease, and if you are sick, you are going to be at home.

    So we have a bunch of healthy, or at the least, non-contagious people, walking around with face diapers. And no, it’s not a ‘hall pass’. It’s an imposed societal obligation with no benefit, and given the overall cost to society, a decidedly negative effect. It’s idiotic, and I prefer not to act in an idiotic manner if I know it’s idiotic. The City of Portland is not concerned with that, as they now require masks to be worn in drive-thrus.

  • Cotour

    1. The Pandemic arrives directly from Communist China, directly from a bio lab either as a function of human error or human agenda. At an extremely opportune time in history, during an unprecedented time of economic prosperity in America under the leadership of D.J. Trump. With the kind of things being accomplished by Trump and the minimal level of unemployment and general enrichment of all there is no way that Trump could lose even if there was blatant cheating.

    2. Trump has identified the Chinese as being corrupt and are a threat to America.

    3. Trump, an unapologetic American nationalist, has set the Sorosian / Globalist / Liberal Leftist democrat agenda back by at least 4 years after surprisingly defeating the “Next” American president, Hillary Clinton in 2016.

    4. The Chinese are the natural beneficiaries of the Globalist agenda.

    5. Joe Biden runs against Trump and “Wins”. Biden is entirely compromised by the Communist Chinses who have invested in the Biden family through Joe Biden’s front man, his son Hunter.

    6. The election is contested by Trump because of the blatant fraud that has been revealed. And the evidence piles higher and higher as time goes on. The Trump vote numbers even with cheating are record breaking.

    7. Joe Biden speaks of , Building back better. The Globalists talk about, “The great reset”. One in the same.

    D. Messier, do I have to continue? Just because something is outside of your ability to see or understand or ability to believe, that does not mean it is not going on. Timing is everything in life.

  • eddie willers

    These posts are just so ill informed and off the mark.

    You need to read more.

  • Cotour

    “A former national security official revealed that even some of the more left-wing personalities within the intelligence community have recognized a reality of Chinese interference. “There are partisan elements within the intelligence community who are desperate to deny a talking point to President Trump,” said the anonymous official in a statement provided to the Post Millennial. “Interestingly, some of the people who want to include the Chinese operational statement are not supporters of the President at all, but people committed to doing their job.”

    Trump must go.

    And that is why he must stay.

  • m d mill

    It seems RZ finds a headline from the “prestigious” New York Post that he likes and is satisfied to quote it.

    But what does the first line of the actual paper state?
    “Infectious respiratory diseases spread when a healthy person comes in contact with virus-laden droplets from someone who has been infected, often through a sneeze or cough.1,2 Wearing a mask has been proven to be an effective method of protection in this pandemic, which both reduces the exhalation of virus-laden aerosols from a COVID patient and minimizes the inhalation of airborne virus-laden aerosols by the subjects surrounding the patient.”

    Specifically, in that first referenced paper (of this paper) we read:

    “A large reduction in volume is also seen with a surgical mask (Table I). A N95 mask, therefore, not only cuts the number of droplets ejected out by the person but also substantially reduces the amount of infected air produced by the person. Based on typical data,13 the volume of the cloud without a mask is about 7 times and 23 times larger than that with a surgical mask and an N95 mask, respectively.”
    [ ]
    This same paper shows that most cough spittle droplets are in the range 4 to 16 microns (which multi-layer cotton can filter), but the largest volume of spittle and viruses is actually in the less dense but much larger droplets.
    But the authors of this paper admit: “It is natural to think that wearing a mask, no matter new or old, should always be better than nothing,” said author Jinxiang Xi. “Our results show that this belief is only TRUE for particles larger than 5 micrometers, but not for fine particles smaller than 2.5 micrometers.” But most viruses ARE in particles greater than 5 micron.

    Further the original paper is only modeling inhalation filtered air flow, not the efficacy of mask filtered exhalations, which are the primary purpose of the mask in reducing infection transmission. And the importance in inhaled air flow rate on infection there is purely their speculation, and a computer model at that.

    Further quoted from the article :” and a dirty face mask can’t effectively filter out the tiniest of droplets.”
    I could find no reference to or definition of “dirty masks” in the paper, or the efficacy of “dirty” masks, though i could have missed it. When cloth masks get moist and dried out over many cycles they may indeed lose some filter efficacy…in which case you simply wash and dry them periodically.
    This article and post are filled with misinformation, and pure speculation, IMO.

    The purpose of low leakage multi-layer cloth masks is primarily to greatly reduce the spread of very small spittle droplets from an infectious person to another person or an object, and they can do that when worn by an infectious person who is talking or coughing, specially at the height of an epidemic in crowded places
    To say that low leakage multi-layer cotton masks are a “useless talisman” in principle is not true IMO, though they may be medically unwise for a very small group of people.

    this is completely separate from the question “if and when” masking should be required by government or private businesses.
    If very few people are infectious and very few infected people are in any significant danger, then masks may well be unnecessary or not worth the trouble to the general public, regardless of how effective masks may be in principle in reducing exhaled particles from infectious persons[In practice mask mandates don’t SEEM to have made much difference on death rates for the reasons given above AND because people do not, and can not wear them most of the time–which is when the infection transmission actually occurs]. Also, as a society we may view viruses as a natural inevitable risk and require isolation/avoidance to be the responsibility of the individual (which tends to be my position). These are separate valid and essential questions.

  • wayne

    D. Messier;

    Are you old enough to remember Polio?

  • m d mill wrote: “This article and post are filled with misinformation, and pure speculation, IMO.”

    Fair enough, but you know this forum. People expect explanation, citation, and explication.

    Your last paragraph is the pertinent one. We can debate charts and graphs all day long, but it’s an academic exercise. For an American, living as a free, self-determining adult should be the motivating principle.

  • Questioner


    Does Lin Wood have the potential to succeed Trump as the leader of the real Americans?

    By the way, did you know that McConnell has a woman of Chinese origin (with very deep ties to communist China). That may explain his betrayal.

  • Andrew_W

    D. Messier:

    Countries like Australia and New Zealand who have controlled the pandemic have opened back up.

    Exactly so, even though in NZ we’ve got a Labour Government led by a prime minister who’s a former president of The International Union of Socialist Youth, and even though since the election in September Labour has had a majority of the seats in the NZ Parliament, with the elimination of community transmission of Covid within the country we’re back to zero internal restrictions on peoples domestic travel. There’s very little compulsion in wearing masks (I’ve not worn one since March), full stadiums at sports events, the America’s Cup regatta getting underway, cinema’s open (though not much to watch) and the economy has bounced back with a gross domestic product (GDP) rise (seasonally adjusted) of 14 percent for the three months ended September, after contracting by a revised 11 percent in the previous quarter.

    The claims of the pandemic being used as a justification by left wing governments around the world to clamp down on civil freedoms for ideological reasons is blind to reality, especially given that the response of governments outside of the US has little to no relationship to their ideologies. In the US we’ve seen the pandemic turned into a political football with the inevitable result of a divided country failing to address the issue with coordinated strategies to fight the spread of the virus.

    The theory that this is a giant conspiracy to oppress you is bizarre. This is a pandemic. It’s worse than the seasonal flu. These posts are just so ill informed and off the mark.

    Yep, I read Mr. Zimmerman’s opinions and my reaction is identical to that which I have for off-the-wall conspiracy theories.

  • Rick

    Australia and New Zealand may have controlled the Covid crisis, but they don’t have a constant stream of infected people coming into their country every day either at normal entry points, or sneaking across.

  • Andrew _W

    *Australia and New Zealand may have controlled the Covid crisis, . . .*

    What has that got to do with the claim that the reaction to covid, the attempts to slow its spread, are a leftist plot to grab power? If the power grab were real rather than the fantasies of fanatical minds, and the virus of little importance, wouldn’t the power grab still be going on in NZ? Indeed, why would the effort have gone into eliminating the virus have been successful when the elimination removed the justification for the power grab?

  • janyuary

    Blair: ” We can debate charts and graphs all day long, but it’s an academic exercise.”

    Yup. I know now the definition of crazy: Ignoring arithmetic. No matter how you slice it, at this moment according to their numbers, after a year of this, more than 99 percent of Americans are fine. Isn’t that good enough? YES it is. The arithmetic is like superman, it always tells the truth no matter your age, sex, color, location, era, or political affiliation.

    To ignore arithmetic and believe instead the word of a thoroughly politicized medical establishment, is certifiably crazy.
    What is worse is using the force of government to impose fear on those who would be courageous. Treating human beings like livestock just to go to work, poking a swab up their nose and taking their temperature.

    It is a matter of self ownership. Government presumes to absolve us of all responsibility for our health or our risk, they will take care of it. JUST LIKE LIVESTOCK.

    Truly, this is a time we will have to pioneer a new kind of liberty in this era: self ownership. The medical establishment is very real and has spent literally billions of dollars in highly aggressive marketing across all media, from billboards to radio to television, marketing fear and false comfort in dependency to the American public over the past 20 years.

    We are seeing the returns on its investment, working on credulous people so temporarily insane as to ignore arithmetic.

  • D. Messier


    Don’t go any further. The trajectory of your argument is already spiraling into the sun. You might want to veer off.

  • Cotour

    D. Messier:

    Please be specific, your talking in generalities has no purpose. That is a technique of distraction.

    I speak in rational and well thought out terms based in facts as I have gathered them.

    If you disagree please be specific, otherwise I can not take you seriously.

    Are you a serious man? Or are you a man who only thinks he is serious and in fact are something else?

    Please, no half measures here.

  • eddie willers

    are a leftist plot to grab power?

    Who says it must be from the left? Here’s Mencken. I’m sure if we looked hard enough, we’d find a similar quote from Cicero.

    “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary.”

    H.L. Mencken

  • Questioner

    Former Pfizer Science Officer Reveals Great COVID-19 Scam: “You cannot have a lethal pandemic stalking the land and not have excess deaths. ~ Michael Yeadon, Ph.D.”


    -There are currently no excess deaths while cases increase.

    -Data show many deaths — primarily people aged 45 to 65, with equal distribution between the sexes — are mainly due to heart disease, stroke and cancer, which suggests they are excess deaths caused by lack of routine medical care due to the pandemic restrictions

    -The PCR test is not a valid diagnostic tool and should not be done on the scale we’re now doing it. The high rate of false positives is only fodder for needless fearmongering

    -Virtually no one who is asymptomatic has the live virus, but when you run the test at a cycle threshold over 30, meaning you amplify the viral RNA more than 30 times, you end up with a positive test even if the virus is inactive and noninfectious

    -According to Michael Yeadon, Ph.D., a former vice-president and chief scientific adviser of the drug company Pfizer, very few people will need the COVID-19 vaccine as the mortality rate is so low and the illness is clearly not causing excess deaths

  • Cotour


    Reminds me of the 9/11 NIST report:

    “As noted by Yeadon, people are now changing the laws of immunology, which simply shouldn’t happen. This should not be a political issue, but somehow it is being treated as one. He claims to have no ideas at all as to why these false narratives are being created, and why scientific truth that contradicts the mainstream narrative is being censored.”

  • Chris

    First item – I do not see how any mask, other than a strongly secured respirator can contain a sneeze or cough. The filter properties of any mask not glued to your shaven face do not apply.
    Paper masks and certainly cloth masks do not filter submicron water droplets – these are the aerosols that viruses are in. In addition, the loose fitting “surgical mask” does not filter much at all – note the “loose fitting” description.
    Most amusing is the face shield that has NO filtering, just breath redirection, The CDC still has this as a recommendation.
    N-95 masks ARE designed to fit reasonably close but do not contain strong coughs nor sneezes. They do better than paper or cloth.
    N-95 masks ARE designed to capture sub-micron particles.
    Surgical masks are NOT DESIGNED to block viruses. They are not efficacious in stopping the spread of the flu virus. I have posted several times the CDC doc on this, Others have posted others docs as well.
    Other posters on this site may post competing studies – fine. This is in debate.
    Personal sovereignty shall NOT be curtailed on debated material.

    The very poor collection of statistics w.r.t. the Common Chinese Corona-virus (CCC) brings into question the infection rates and how deadly the infection is.
    I have seen and read plenty of posts on this site w.r.t. the collection of CCC stats or the designation of CCC deaths,
    Personal Sovereignty shall NOT be curtailed on questionable CCC statistics.

    Australia a and New Zealand are fairly isolated islands. They have put down the virus. They will need to keep the virus out of their uninflected populace.
    In “normal times” where a vaccine took from 3 years to infinity to produce, A and NZ would need to maintain that isolation.

    Since the governments and citizens of A and NZ don’t really value their individual sovereignty they had the means to force the compliant populace into the required submission to get to an isolated herd immunity. – hooray for them!

    What calamity will they submit to next? No matter what it is I doubt they will notice since they have already allowed their sovereignty to be violated without much protest.

    Those in A and NZ can do as they like – I’ll keep my personal sovereignty.

  • Max

    If masks is science, why does the mandate and proper usage keep changing? That proves that masks are political, and it’s nothing more than Science “fiction”. Or Scientology.

    “Math does not lie”, I like it. Remember, CDC statistics show 2.8 million die every year! Do the math, where is the meat?

    There are specific rules in OSHA and MSHA on mask use in hazardous conditions. Fugitive dust and crushed quartz use M 95. Same with grain dust, salt dust, asbestos brake dust, high pressure wash of toxic oils/paint. (Goggles optional)
    Toxic fumes, underground with no ventilation, confined space, acid fumes, welding fumes, refrigeration gases in confined space, smelter fumes (highly toxic) all require a chemical filter with a fitted mask… The confined space requires an oxygen supply. Any violation can have serious health effects within hours, some within days. Training is required yearly, same with mask fitting. But accidents still occur, a fan wired in reverse? Brought ventilated toxins back into a room overwhelming and causing the death of a person with a proper mask on a few years ago.

    It was just announced locally in Utah that the children are all going back to school. (Just like New York) Only the sick ones… (read test positive) will be withheld and all those who have been exposed to the sick kids (as long as everyone had masks on) no longer need to remain home in quarantine. The reasons are twofold. (you decide which one was the decision factor)

    Most of the quarantine children did not develop any tested antibodies determining that with holding them was a waste of time. Or…

    Home schooling has been more effective than computer schooling and 1/3 of school-age population will no longer return to government schools. This has caused a considerable drop in income to the school district. It also prevents teachers access to the very people that need indoctrination away from parental influence.

    There even is a movement to eliminate $1000 off of the property tax Per home that goes to the school districts if the children are no longer in school. In an emergency meeting, before the dictator governor leaves office, they have allocated millions of dollars to give the teachers a $1500 bonus if they are working or go back to work. This is caused a fecal storm with the other government agencies. Particularly the babysitters at the state prison. Aren’t we all at risk and deserve extra pay?

    You can just imagine what this does to the workers and the businesses owners that the government prevents from working with no justification or compensation. (The virus is like a vampire, infection occurs after 10 o’clock and it knows when more than 10 people are in a room)
    Sooner or later, the government will run out of other peoples money. Yes, they can take it but it will be worthless if there’s no one there to make more. You can hand out $1 million a day to every family like Venezuela, but if there’s no food in the store to buy, or it cost 10 million for a bag of rice…

    Our arguments about masks will really seem trivial when you’re dying of hunger, loneliness, alcoholism, lead poisoning. If the power goes out this winter, you will have your mask to keep you warm. No one else will be able, even if they wanted to, to help you.

  • Andrew _W

    “Those in A and NZ can do as they like – I’ll keep my personal sovereignty.”

    People in NZ have far more “personal sovereignty” today than people in virtually every other country, we bit the bullet, and did what was needed to get our freedom back – which meant eliminating the virus from the community.

  • janyuary

    Chris, well said!
    Max, “Our arguments about masks will really seem trivial when you’re dying of hunger, loneliness, alcoholism, lead poisoning. If the power goes out this winter, you will have your mask to keep you warm. No one else will be able, even if they wanted to, to help you.”

    Our arguments about masks seem trivial already to me … when history looks back at this period in time, they will be scratching their heads wondering, what in the hell happened? How did these normal people become so bat-crap crazy even when the arithmetic proving it was way overblown was right in front of their faces from the start? What happened??

    20 years of aggressive marketing by the medical industry is what happened. It scared the populace into trusting doctors with the force of government. It was and will always be a big mistake. Every human born knows to limit fire for human safety. We must limit government as diligently and for the same reason we severely limit fire — we did if we let fire get out of control. Medicine, science, religion — the force of government must remain beyond their reach. Government force must be limited to keeping justice when rights are infringed.

    To use government force to “save” people from themselves when arithmetic proves the threat is very small, is brazen insanity. Masks and social distancing are just the disgraceful symptoms.

  • janyuary

    Robert, if you can correct, end of the fifth line up from the bottom: we would die if we let fire get out of control.

  • Chris

    Andrew – Tell me about your firearm collection.

  • D. Messier

    OK Cotour:

    Here’s a response.

    COVID-19 was not some sort of plot to bring down Trump. It was a pandemic that spread around the world. Trump could have easily won re-election if his response to the pandemic had been competent and empathetic. It was neither. And he did lose the popular and electoral votes.

    These are realities that most people on this website cannot wrap their minds around.

    Getting back to my original point, why do people here believe the shutdowns are part of some leftist plot to take away your rights? That hasn’t happened in other democracies that have gotten the pandemic under control. It’s in everyone’s interest that the economy reopen. People will have a hard time getting reelected if we’re still dealing with this during future election cycles. Governments can’t fund basic services without a health economy.

  • Jeff Fauva


    As you know, many people can have the covid and not even know it. Masks are most effective for limiting covid from getting out, rather than getting in. To contract covid, one must be exposed to sufficient viral load. Masks will not stop every virus particle, but limiting some helps lessen the viral load others may be exposed to.

  • Edward

    D. Messier,
    You wrote: “COVID-19 was not some sort of plot to bring down Trump.

    I am no fan of Trump, but the reality is that there are Democrats who announced that they would not let a crisis go to waste, so when a crisis comes along, they blame it on Trump (before Trump was elected, they blamed crises and problems on Bush). Which federal politician was in tears as she blamed Trump for her father’s death, which was attributed to Wuhan?

    They said that they would go after Trump, and they went after Trump. As you noted, they finally found something that worked for them, that gave Trump a hard time getting reelectyed, but to do it took the destruction of our lives and such huge amounts of election fraud that they got caught.

    … why do people here believe the shutdowns are part of some leftist plot to take away your rights?

    Because of their announcement that they would use crises to further their cause. All the evidence shows that is what they are doing. As you noted, “That hasn’t happened in other democracies that have gotten the pandemic under control.” What is the difference? The U.S. has a lot of people in government who have been trying to eliminate our rights, including and especially the rights protected by the First and Second Amendments. There are plenty of tech companies that are suddenly limiting our ability to express non-leftist viewpoints. Doesn’t that sound like a plot, to you?

    It’s in everyone’s interest that the economy reopen. People will have a hard time getting reelected if we’re still dealing with this during future election cycles.

    It is not in the interest of those who want to get the current president out of office, and it is not in the interest of those who want to prove that capitalism does not work and that we should change to socialism or communism. It is harder to make that change when free market capitalism is working so nicely as it has under Trump, or Bush, or Bush, or Reagan.

    Governments can’t fund basic services without a health economy.

    What better time to replace a free government with a socialist or communist government than when the free government has been proved to not work? The object of the exercise is to collapse the current government and system so that a different one can be implemented with the approval of a populace that is disappointed in the corruption and election fraud, which our fearful leaders will tell us was a feature of the old system. It is the Cloward Piven strategy on steroids.

  • Jeff Fauva


    In times of uncertainty, leaders often see a bump in support. In western democracies where the covid crisis was handled competently, the leaders were/are being reelected. Jacinda Ardern in New Zealand won a landslide victory. In truth, the covid crisis gave Trump the opportunity to win in a landslide if he handled it even half competently.

    “Doesn’t that sound like a plot, to you?”

    Synonym:plot Conspire

  • Edward

    Jeff Fauva, You wrote: “Synonym:plot Conspire

    But the synonym is not conspiracy theory. You are really bad at this.

    In truth, the covid crisis gave Trump the opportunity to win in a landslide if he handled it even half competently.

    And he would have, had the various media been honest instead of pants burners. Indeed, if BiteMe’s ideas for handling this crisis are what you think is competent then you are an even greater fool than I thought before, because all of BiteMe’s ideas are some of what Trump has done. Trump has supplied the medical community with everything that they said they needed, including a vaccine. Pretend-Elect BiteMe* has not suggested that he would provide anything that the medical community has said it needs.

  • D. Messier


    Trump botched the response to the pandemic. He was rightly criticized for it. His response was to not take responsibility for anything. It didn’t help his reelection prospects.

    This is how the world works. You can rant all you want about Democrats, but the responsibility for the federal response lay with Trump. You can hardly be shocked that he got criticized for the awful job he did with it. You can complain about Democrats at the state level, but Republican states didn’t do any better. In some cases worse.

  • Andrew _W

    Chris, I have two .22 rifles, one bolt action one semiauto, not much of a collect I know but it’s all I need, if I wanted to I could go out, buy and take home centerfire rifles and shotguns tomorrow.
    Why do you ask?

  • wayne

    Q: In what State do you live? & what do you do for a living?

  • Cotour

    D. Messier:

    This statement: “You can complain about Democrats at the state level, but Republican states didn’t do any better. In some cases worse.”

    Is counter to your logic here: “Trump botched the response to the pandemic. ”

    And here: “He was rightly criticized for it. ”

    Trump, no matter what he did, good, bad or otherwise related to the virus would have still been vilified by the media, both MSM and Social. Trump did in fact a better job from the jump than any of the Democrat talking head politicos such as Nancy Pelosi, Bill “We are here to redistribute your wealth” DeBlasio, and even better than the likes of “Expert”, Dr. Fauci and several others. Trump went exactly opposite of their council and decisions which was that Covid was no big deal, “Come to China Town”. And those are just the facts.

    And again I remind you, it is ONLY due to Trumps ability as the president to spend the money and force the existence of all vaccines through approvals that causes all vaccines that exist today to exist, less than one year after it began. And that is called vision and leadership.

    Trump understands that government can only do very specific things in its capacity, and he has in fact executed that well and better than any other. That is if being among the first to identify the virus threat and the first to take decisive action to make sure that where it was coming from was mitigated and a vaccine indeed existed to neuter its effects that is. Trump is not, like most all other politics are, a pandering hand holder like you would do with a child.

    Your need to be treated like a child says a lot to me about you and your kind.

    And there is nothing, and I mean NOTHING that Trump did during the 2020 election cycle that was covered as being a positive by the MSM and especially Social media which in fact has implemented censorship of the American people in a wholesale manner. Did you even detect that fact?

    And they are continuing their censorship and refining it, they now if allowed will be controlling all that you can know. A bunch of idealistic Left leaning at the minimum, bean sprout eating, millionaires and billionaires, spoiled 30 year olds will let you know what it is that you can see, say and think. And they are all working now in the interests of the Communist Chinese primarily as they attempt to gain access to their markets, and the Russians interests. FACT.


  • wayne

    Good, stuff.

    pivoting,…. ‘cuz this is pretty good, and it’s going to be disappeared…. (and Jeff can make fun of me for referencing alex, feeds right into his predetermined stereotypes.)

    Timcast IRL
    Episode #184
    Tim Pool with Alex Jones & Michael Malice
    December 13, 2020

  • Cotour

    Alex is a lightning rod, but he was way, way ahead of all the we see right before our own eyes, from the Leftist agenda, to Epstein, the the Globalist agenda, to population control, to the Communist Chinese.

    He has his blind spots and issues, but he has been out way ahead on many of them.

  • Edward

    D. Messier,
    You wrote: “His response was to not take responsibility for anything. It didn’t help his reelection prospects.

    Really? That is your takeaway on all this?

    Trump is the reason we have a vaccine, now. Wait. We have two of them!

    Trump went to herculean lengths to supply hospitals and clinics with the equipment that they needed, even getting them there before they were needed. No one went without ventilation. At least one emergency hospital went completely unused, but Trump made it available on short notice. Trump made a hospital ship available to New York City, even though the ship was in for extensive maintenance at the time. New York only used that ship when people started to complain that it was unused, so the city sent almost two hundred people there. Los Angeles got its own hospital ship, which went completely unused.

    Trump ordered travel bans even as he was criticized as being a racist. Is that the criticism that you mean?

    Do not mistake me for a Trump fan, he didn’t accomplish any of the four promises that got him elected in the first place.

  • Andrew_W

    Trump is the reason we have a vaccine, now. Wait. We have two of them!

    So without Trump no vaccine?
    Nonsense, I attribute the many vaccines in early use and being developed around the world to market forces – companies acting to meet an anticipated demand. No politician can take credit for the work undertaken to develop vaccines.

  • Phill O

    Gee, I have been using the same mask for almost two months! Must have worn it about 3 hours. Wrote on it “I want my face back”.

    Sure glad people wear them. A friend said she removes hers to cough and sneeze because it gets all wet!

  • Jeff Fauva

    Some folks on this board:

    “Government is the problem”

    also folks on this board:

    “Government made 2 vaccines hoooray”

    Same folks on this board:

    “The virus is a hoax and no worse than the common flu”

  • Questioner

    Jeff Fauva:

    You play the typical game that we know from the left: taking individual facts out of context, falsifying them and lying. You are building a straw man and contradictions that only exist in your Marxist brain.

    None of us here deny the existence of the virus. We’re just saying it’s no more dangerous than moderate flu, what has been scientifically proven. The state measures are in no way justified and completely exaggerated. Nevertheless, it cannot be wrong to find a cure for the disease, which in individual cases can be fatal, especially for old people who are already ailing. Finally, there are also vaccinations against the flu. Why should Trump, who is probably very committed to accelerating the development of the remedy, not take this fact into account.

  • Phill O

    Here is a link that puts things in perspective:
    Think about the different responses to Covid and the drug problem!

    Note also:
    The people who are dying are people with compromised systems. These people would have been dead “Before” the 1919 flu. Therefore, this Covid-19 is significantly less “deadly” than the Spanish flu.

    This does not say Covid is not a problem, only gives it some perspective. We now live in a society that people will risk using illicit drugs of unknown origins and safety, but will not tolerate agricultural chemicals with proven safety. Having been in food safety, I will not buy organic.

  • Questioner

    In the liberal democracies of the West, real power does not lie in the hands of the elected representatives, but in the outer (or deep) state (= “cathedral”). Democrats and Republicans (with the exception of a few Republican dissidents) have an equal share in this deep state, which is why in the case of the USA one can actually speak of a one-party system.
    Trump’s (he is dissident) lection in 2016 was an industrial accident for the “cathedral”. Because of this, he could hardly achieve any of his original goals. The resistance was just too great. Even so, he was still dangerous enough for the “cathedral” that everything – including electoral fraud – was being done to prevent his re-election.
    Here is a more in-depth analysis of the afore said.

    “Thinking About Moldbug: The One-Party State”

  • Questioner


    Here is a detailed explanation of the “Cathedral”:

  • Andrew_W

    We’re just saying it’s no more dangerous than moderate flu, what has been scientifically proven.

    Untrue, IFR is about 10 times that of flu and it will infect a far higher fraction of those exposed to it. Even with the improvement in treatments since March if it were to run unchecked through the US population about 1.5 million people would die from it before herd immunity were reached.

  • Jeff Fauva


    Covid was predicted to kill 2.5 million Americans without interventions. Moderate flus do not kill 2.5 million Americans a year.

  • Phill O

    Jeff Sweden is the example which shows that the “prediction” was totally out to lunch; which is a fact many on this site are arguing.

    Here is a link to what Covid cops are doing which would have people up in arms if it were a druggie.

  • Questioner

    Jeff Fauva:

    This “prediction” was an irresponsible horror scenario created by those actors who wanted to plant fear in the population for their own benefit. It was already clear around March 20, 2020 that the mortal danger of the disease is no greater than the flu for the entire population. A real pandemic was the plague in the 14th century, which killed around a third of the population (around 30%). What is the (real) proportion of those who have died of Covid-19 in the total population? Something in the range of 0.01-0.03%?

  • Andrew_W

    Something in the range of 0.01-0.03%?

    Your math isn’t great is it? 326,000 in 326,000,000 is 0.1%, but only about 1 in 6 Americans have been infected, herd immunity happens when about 4 in 6 gaining immunity, so 1.3 million deaths to get to herd immunity, but infection rates are likely lower for the more vulnerable (they know their chances of it killing them are higher so they make more efforts to avoid becoming infected), if the infection rates were uniform across all demographics there would have been more than 326,000 deaths from the same number of people infected.

    Months ago I mentioned that if rates of infections were held down to levels that the health systems could handle it would take 1000 days to get to herd immunity. We’ve done about 300 of those days to date.

  • Edward

    Jeff Fauva wrote sarcastically: “Government made 2 vaccines hoooray

    Well, that is new. I wouldn’t have thought you an anti-vaxxer.

    Covid was predicted to kill 2.5 million Americans without interventions.

    The main intervention was hand washing. The prediction went from 2.2 million dead this year to 0.2 million, with just minor interventions.

    So we undertook those interventions and more, and now we are approaching 0.3 million deaths. What went wrong, Jeff?

    The rest of us saw that more people were dying than the predictions said would die if we took varying amounts of intervention. If we did social distancing, then deaths would drop from 200 thousand to 100 thousand. Lockdowns for three weeks would reduce the deaths to only 40,000. We did all those and included masks, too, but we surpassed the 40,000 and are now approaching 300 thousand for the year. Clearly the interventions that are new this year are worse than useless and are counterproductive.

    The interventions for previous years were largely limited to hand washing, and as you noted, there were far, far fewer people killed by those flus. The major difference is not so much the flu itself, it didn’t spread as fast as expected or kill those infected at the expected rate in areas that didn’t take draconian interventions. The major difference is the extent and nature of the interventions.

    The question is so important that I repeat it: what went wrong, Jeff?

  • D. Messier

    Trump’s response was slow. He downplayed the severity. Predicted virus would simple disappear on its own. Gave mixed messages on wearing masks. Failed to lead by example. Held rallies and events that spread the virus. Dismissed warnings drom medical experts and attacked scientists. Appointed Pence who had an awful record dealing with health problems in Indiana to head the task force. Appointed Jared to lead a shadow operation to deal with virus even though he lacked expertise. Failed to bring full power of federal govt to bear on the crisis. Forced states to compete against each other for medical resources. Threw out the pandemic playbook left him by the previous president. Dismantled the White House team established to handle outbreaks.

    He screwed up. The man left us vulnerable to a pandemic then bungled the response. When asked he took no responsibilty at all for any of the mistakes.

  • Cotour

    1st, did you and your kind really need for someone in government or the CDC to tell you what you had to do to keep yourself safe and healthy? Really? You were depending on government for providing you with that information? Funny, I did not. (The entity government and the associated agencies were faking much of their reaction and their leadership. Dr. Fauci? Contradicted himself left and right)

    Trump could have done better, Trump could have done worse, NOTHING that government told you me or anyone else did much to help the situation IMO. The virus is running its course just like it has for time in memorial.

    And this statement: ” Failed to bring full power of federal govt to bear on the crisis. “, is just outright fraudulent and false. You sound like you needed Gestapo tactics to be issued forth from the government, then you would have felt more secure with the existence of the virus.

    What about the hospitals built over night by the military? What about the mass ventilator and PPP production? What about the floating hospital delivered in a week, and not used? (Another example of government, NYS, panic and their being totally unprepared because they spent the money for such an event on other more important needs) What about the existence of the vaccines that are today being delivered ONLY because Trump spent the billions and forced the development and testing?

    And this is a good one too: “Threw out the pandemic playbook left him by the previous president. ”

    “Biden has argued that he’d have responded better to the coronavirus pandemic than Trump, but back in 2009, the Obama-Biden administration “abruptly advised states to stop testing for H1N1 flu, and stopped counting individual cases.”

    (Obama, and Biden, left the cupboards bare)

    Might some other president have been a better hand holder for all of those adult American children who needed it? I suppose, but no other president would have done a better job IMO. You think the likes of governor Murphy, gov. Cuomo and the like are doing a better job? You think they would have had a better handle on it all?

    Take a good look around.

  • Edward

    D. Messier,
    You wrote: “Trump’s response was slow.

    Really? That is your takeaway on all this?

    After some careful thought, he put a ban on travel so early that people like you complained about it. Now you guys are all too eager to place travel bans so fast that no thought is going into them.

    Predicted virus would simple disappear on its own.

    And now we will never know, because there was so much draconian, unhealthy reaction to it that it grew during summer months. During summer months! Other paces that were not as draconian and had better reactions have virtually eliminated it. Some U.S. states barely felt it, despite staying open and not requiring masks. The empirical evidence is on Trump’s side, not yours.

    Held rallies and events that spread the virus.

    Hah! the virus spread within BiteMe*’s locked-down, over-masked, too-frightened-to-campaign campaign. In fact, in order to blame Trump for the spread, the phrase “super spreader” had changed in such a way that the BiteMe* campaign could be called a super spreader event.

    … oh, wait. I found your problem:
    Forced states to compete against each other for medical resources.

    You listened to the news media, not what Trump actually said. This was your mistake. This was your foolish move. This is why I think you are ignorant. You are.

    After all, the previous president’s playbook was to wait for a thousand deaths, then start to do something. Trump started to do something the week following the first positive test occurred in this country. And Obamacare, which was supposed to keep us from losing our homes and businesses if we got sick, failed to keep us from losing them anyway — even though we didn’t get sick!

    Trump took the reigns early, but then various governors did the stupidest things possible.

    Here is what our local officials did:
    Nursing Home strategy:
    Why is it that governments always ask themselves, “what is the stupidest thing we can do?” Then ask themselves, “how can we make that even stupider?” Does one really have to be a Democrat to send flu patients into concentrations of the most vulnerable? Nursing homes complained immediately that this was the worst thing that could possibly be done, but it took Governor Cuomo a month and a half to realize that his strategy was producing bad press for him.

    Lockdown, Shutdown, Smackdown, Great Oppression strategy:
    The strategy in which the maximum number of people sacrificed the maximum amount in order to save forty thousand lives. Lives that were lost anyway. And then some.

    Ban elective surgery strategy:
    Elective surgery turns out to be anything that is not an emergency but can be scheduled in advance. Examples include cancer surgery and heart surgeries. Thus, people who should have gotten life-saving surgeries were denied them for weeks or months. How many didn’t live that long?

    This strategy also includes all the other medical procedures that were delayed, including cancer and cardiac screenings. Between this strategy and the idea that the hospital was the most likely place to become infected by Wuhan flu, people stopped going to the hospital, even when it was an emergency. The lack of patients resulted in a large number of medical personnel being put on furlough.

    How many people died from lack of healthcare we shall never know. However, we can see that Obamacare failed us during a time when we needed it most.

    Ban medication strategy:
    The use of hydroxychloriquine and other potential curative medications were banned by several Democrat governors. What are these governors thinking? When people are deathly sick, they deserve to get medications that have been shown to be useful, even if they have not yet been proved useful through normal FDA testing programs. Off label use of various medications is legal for other medical problems, but somehow we had governors taking it upon themselves to prevent their use for this particular disease.

    We all are forced to suffer through all kinds of punishing preventative methods, such as lockdowns and masks, but somehow we do not have the right to choose for ourselves whether we want to try potentially curative medications.

    Hug-A-Chinese strategy:
    In late February, a month after President Trump initiated the travel ban from China, Pelosi and de Blasio directed people to go to their local Chinatowns for dinner and to celebrate Chinese New Year in large crowds. It would be racist not to. Three weeks later, Wuhan flu had become so bad in New York and California that the lockdown, shutdown, Great Oppression strategy was implemented in San Francisco, and New York followed suit a few days later. Clearly, this strategy was a cluster bleep.

    Trump didn’t do those. Our governors and local officials did.

    You attributed to Trump things that he didn’t do and refuse to acknowledge Trump’s successful strategies, which I mentioned before, and even try to convince me that some of his successful strategies were failures. I’m smarter than that. You fell for someone’s tall tales, but I am not as gullible as you.,

  • wayne

    “When Do We Get Our Freedom Back?”
    Dave Smith
    Part Of The Problem #674, December 19, 2020

  • Edward: Well said and quite accurate. I might have done the same, but I have grown very much tired of talking to walls. They don’t listen, and just repeat the same ignorant soundbites learned from the Democratic Party press making believe it is doing reporting.

  • Cotour

    The Democrats must cheat, if a Democrat were to be honest about what they thought and intended, no one would hardly ever vote for and empower them.

    The evidence of rampant organized cheating and fraud builds and it will not be able to be unseen and so the Congress and the Senate MUST do what must be done, come hell or high water and anything else that the political class may live in fear of. If they do not take care of business here and the Democrat Leftists among us become further empowered we are all and the Constitution is threatened.

    This must be done the hard way and whom ever needs to protest then let them protest, and those who need to become violent must be met with equal degrees of violence in their attempt to prosecute their reign of fear and domestic terror.

    Success here will be Trumpian, its his destiny.


    “Democrats pushed a candidate this year who could not complete a full sentence, who hid in his basement and when he did hold a public “rally” could only get a few dozen supporters to show up in a parking lot to honk horns. But Democrats were never worried for some reason. You never saw Democrats in full-on panic mode. This was a huge “tell.”

    “They weren’t campaigning. Their plan was to cheat.”

    “They resent the whole premise behind elections. Look, they don’t believe they should have to persuade anybody to agree with them. Therefore, they don’t believe in campaigns. They don’t believe in the free, open exchange of ideas. There aren’t any legitimate ideas outside of their own.”

    “They can’t persuade a majority of Americans to support Black Lives Matter. They can’t persuade a majority of Americans to support burning down American cities and private property. They can’t persuade a majority of Americans to go along with their ideas on guns and eliminating free speech. They can’t persuade anybody to agree with that!”

    “Those are things they’re gonna have to force on people, and they are more than willing and eager to force that stuff on you, but they need the power to do it. So they have to go through the motions. The modern-day Democrats have to go through the motions of campaigning, and they have to go through the motions of trying to win the hearts and minds of voters.”

    “They’re doing it in front of our faces.” They really are. They are attempting to win elections without broad public support. That’s what they’re trying to do. That’s just another way of phrasing what they’re doing. How do you win elections without broad public support?

    You have to cheat.”

  • Jeff Fauva

    Why did these same interventions work in other countries, and not here? I could literally go to a crowded bar in Wuhan right now and be safer than Nashville.

  • Cotour

    I think thats a great idea, why not go there, stay a while and report live from Wuhan.

    I think you would be much more comfortable there, its what you promote being developed here in America.

    I ask you again: Why can the voting machines not be examined?

  • Jeff Fauva


    “Trump took the reigns early, but then various governors did the stupidest things possible.”

    “Took the reigns” and allowed stupid things. You are soooo close to getting it.

  • Cotour

    Just like I thought: NO COMMENT.


    Why no comment? Because that would reveal the fraudulent nature of the argument of the Left.

    A Leftist can NEVER answer honestly any question that reveals them for what they are, frauds.

    I understand, its the nature of the beast.

  • Jeff Fauva


    I addressed election fraud on another post relevant to the election. I do not wish to visit Wuhan.

  • Edward

    Jeff Fauva you foolishly wrote: “‘Took the reigns’ and allowed stupid things. You are soooo close to getting it.

    Oh, I get it all right. You don’t. You forget that Trump is not the dictator you think that he is. He is severely limited in what he can and cannot do on the state and local levels. Trump could not stop Pelosi or de Blasio from giving their stupid advice (First Amendment, you know), or the Governors from running their own states into the ground. He runs a federal government, not a national government, like so many other countries.

    Not like the country you think we should be.

  • Cotour

    No, you do not want to visit Wuhan, you want to bring Wuhan here.

    You need more training to successfully spew your Leftist Bovine Effluent here, you consistently fail miserably.

    Although I do not know what else they would train you on.

  • Jeff Fauva


    “Predicted virus would simple disappear on its own.”

    And now we will never know, because there was so much draconian, unhealthy reaction to it that it grew during summer months. During summer months! Other paces that were not as draconian and had better reactions have virtually eliminated it.

    You really have to nail this down for us. Please point us to anyplace where there was a significant virus outbreak where then the virus disappeared in the summer months/warm weather without significant interventions, i.e., masking, quarantine, tracing, and social isolation.

  • Edward

    Jeff Fauva,
    You wrote: “You really have to nail this down for us.

    Done and done. You are the only one not paying attention.

  • Jeff Fauva


    I stand corrected – your arguments are thinner than air.

  • Edward

    Jeff Fauva,
    You wrote: “I stand corrected – your arguments are thinner than air.

    Because you don’t pay attention to them, they would seem that way to you. This argument of yours is an example of what you consider a good argument?

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