Cruz’s speech at the convention


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My first reaction to Ted Cruz’s exhortation that Republican’s vote their conscience in his speech at the Republican Convention last night was distress, as I expected the response to be mostly hostile (which it was) and unnecessary, as to my mind he could have gone there and simply said that “When Donald Trump becomes the next president I will be ready and waiting in the Senate to work with him to make sure the Constitution is defended and the federal government is brought under control.” Worded in this way, Cruz would not have been endorsing Trump, but he also would have not made himself an enemy of a significant percentage of the Republican voting bloc.

However, these two articles have changed my mind:

Cruz did the right thing. As noted at the first link,

If you’re voting for Donald Trump because you think he’s the lesser of two evils; because you think Hillary is clearly worse; because you reject leftism and know Hillary will foist leftism on us and only suspect Trump might . . . then you and I are cool. I respect that position. It’s not my position — but if it’s yours, I respect it, and I respect you.

But if you’re going to knock Ted Cruz for standing up against a man who bullied his family, I don’t respect you. I don’t want you here. Feel free to leave. It may make this place smaller, but it will make it better.

The second link also noted the unhealthy nature of today’s politics, where somehow one is not allowed to take a stand on conscience because of politics. Well to hell with that. There are things worth dying for, and one’s family is surely one of them.

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138 comments

  • wayne

    I have no problems with Cruz’s speech. Didn’t expect him to endorse Trump & would have been shocked if he did.

    Trump lost me 100%, 6+ months ago, he was obviously winning in the Primary’s but he just would not shut up his mouth and insisted on personally attacking Heidi & Rafael Cruz.

    Reagan never endorsed Ford in ’76, he did however strongly campaign on the Platform, which was heavily influenced by his delegates. (In contrast, the Trump delegates this time around, were totally sucked into establishment power-grabs & played the willing-fools for people like Ryan, Mitch, and “Rinse Prius.”)

    We are once again in a strange situation where the Platform is far more Conservative than the man chosen to represent it to the American people.

    I was heavily involved in the ’80 & ’84 campaigns & the people we had to fight the most, were the RINO’s.
    Coincidentally, many of those exact people are now on the Trump bandwagon.

  • Cotour

    This is the email below that I sent out this morning concerning Cruz’s speech last night. I think Cruz perceives the hatred for him from both sides as a badge of honor, and there is some validity to that. BUT. You must when you are involved in this dirtiest of games that humans play, this blood sport that is politics, you must do what must be done! And he has not.

    He attempted to be big, but he is small.

    I prefer my interpretation.

    This mornings email:

    Ted Cruz chooses his personal hurt feelings and future political aspiration calculus over the potential for Hillary to become the next president and appoint possibly as many as the next 5 Supreme Court Justices (among other things).

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ted-cruz-rnc-2016_us_5790c893e4b0bdddc4d340e2

    Cruz made a very good speech at the Republican convention the other night, but he forgot these few sentences.

    ” While I personally despise Donald J. Trump for all of the reasons that everyone knows about, I despise Hillary Clinton much, much more because she intends to destroy our country as we know it through her self admitted “progressive” (socialist / Leftist) agenda. Just like her master and (socialist / leftist) “leading from behind” co conspirator, Barack Hussein Obama has done in the last 7 1/2 years. And we all see how that has been working out.

    So while I personally detest this man I fully support him for the 2016 presidency for that one reason! And I will work with vigilance in the Senate in my capacity as a United States Senator from Texas in restoring the Constitution to its proper place in our governance, with him when appropriate and against him when I disagree.

    Now Cruz is seen as just a petty political female dog. (but I like him as a Conservative force in our government)

  • wayne

    Holy cow!
    The personal attacks just never end.
    Same thing they did to Reagan, only more vicious.

    The RINO’s are feeling very good, the Trumpians I would put forth, “don’t have a clue what they are doing, who they are following, or why they are being told to do so.”

  • Laurie

    I think it is always appropriate to vote your conscience, and not to bend to pressure. That said, I wouldn’t vote for either of them.

    Exiting stage left.

  • Cotour

    One overly sensitive American is “upset” that there are “personal attacks” in politics (where has he been?) and another American justifies that she has the option of not voting when the end result will be the continuation of the Barack Obama “leading from behind”, flood the country with Islamic refugees to the tune of 5 times and the appointing of possibly 5 very liberal / leftist Supreme Court Justices etc, etc, etc..

    “You must when you are involved in this dirtiest of games that humans play, this blood sport that is politics, you must do what must be done! ”

    Politics is no place for your hurt feelings or your luxurious thought process and convenient “exist stage left” and hiding from reality.

    Newt asks: Who do you think would uphold the Constitution to a higher degree, Hillary or Trump? Simple question, simple answer. Or, What would you rather be shot in the buttocks with, a 22 or a 50 cal. ?

    Sorry, that’s just how simple this happens to lay out.

  • Localfluff

    I think, and I’m a complete outsider to the weird US politix, as you all know, I think Ted Cruz made a great speech!

    He just could not creep to the cross, he had to defend his honor and his family. And he did. Hard to do, I imagine, against thousands of trumpers booing him face to face. But he did. There is some kind of healthy opposition in the party after all.

  • eddie willers

    Your first reaction was the correct one, Robert.

    Cruz committed political suicide last night and will forevermore be outside the tent pissing in. Attorney General or Supreme Court nominee or other such possibilities, all gone now. His chance to influence the path of his party is a burnt bridge behind him.

  • wayne

    LocalFluff:
    I like the way you phrased that! You have a unique way with the English language.

    Cruz was already hated by the establishment.
    I watched his speech, he didn’t attack Trump. He just didn’t vow allegiance & kiss Trump’s ring.

    Personally, my feeling’s aren’t “hurt.” Trump lost me a long time ago. He just continues to reinforce my belief I made the right decision.

    I hope the Trump people plan on working twice as hard, ‘cuz I’m not making phone-calls, licking envelope’s, or walking any neighborhoods, for the Republican nominee. Been there, done that a lot, just not down with that game plan anymore.

    It’s one thing to live in an echo-chamber, it’s another entirely to go out and convince people you don’t know, to actually vote for your guy. (Most people aren’t in-the-weeds interested in Politics.)
    It was easy to advocate for Reagan, and just has become harder & harder for me to stomach the choices forced upon me as the years roll by.)

    As I’ve said before, –don’t hate Trump, but not supporting the guy. Far more worried about Mitch/Ryan/Priebus, and the usual gang-of-suspects on both sides.

  • Desmond

    Trump is thin skinned and has poor impulse control. It gives me nightmares to think of him with his finger on the nuclear button. I’m no fan of Hilary but when the alternative is Trump it makes her look like a new Washington!

  • DubyaJD

    A republican who doesn’t vote for Trump is a vote for HRC. . . . . and 3, maybe more, ultra liberal members of the Supreme Court as well. .. . .Cruz talked about defending the constitution and freedom.. .. .does anyone actually think HRC will defend those interests.. . . so maybe Newt G was right. . . .Cruz’s speech was actually a back door endorsement of Trump. . . ..but time to move on. . . I agree with Eddie, Cruz has reduced himself to a small time player in GOP politics

  • Localfluff

    @wayne
    I’m just half (a quarter) a Dane, but it is still obvious to me that much of the English languish(!) was copy catted from the Danes! King, law, reckoning. Words like that. I could come over and teach you how to speak English again, face slapping you again if necessary. Purely academically, of course.

    When this convention is finally over, like tomorrow, all of this will be history. Trump will then become the most democratic of all republican presidential candidates ever. He’ll launch the new big deal, the newest and biggest deal anytime. Building buildings. Is Hillary even trying? Come on, girl, give us some kind of resistance finally! How can Hillary not find any connection between Don and the mafia in the NY of the 1970s? Are you trying to make me believe that he became a Billionaire by not being bad in any way?

  • Cotour

    Desmond:

    You need not have had the fear that Obama would have his finger on the button, he transmitted from the start that Americas roll related to such things is of no concern to our enemy’s what so ever, ask the Iranian leadership. Any leader that tells their enemy what they will never do, or when they will leave, as Obama has done, IMO is a kind of treason.

    I think that I would tend to fear Hillary more than Trump on this subject though. But I do think with Trump he will have to establish early on that he is not to be messed with. Who knows and in what situation that will reveal itself, there are so many situations that Obama has manufactured through his weakness that will present themselves.

    Remember Hillary’s quote on Kadafi “We came, we saw, he died. Ha, ha, ha, ha”

    https://youtu.be/FmIRYvJQeHM

    That is one stone cold female dog attitude, chilling. The woman has no compassion and will be ruthless in dealing with her own country men who stood against her in this election. Two more reasons that she is not to become the next president.

  • wayne

    LocalFluff–
    Har! ok, I’ve assigned you a stereotypical northern-European accent, in my head.

    >The Democrats haven’t even begun to attack Trump.

  • Alex

    Localfluff:

    English language is categorized as a west-Germanic language and is based on the old-Saxon language. The Saxon and Angles brought their language from a region, which is today’s northwest part of Germany to later England in 5th century during invasion of Brittan. Some of Germanic based words in English language are: “have, is, fly, go, must, hear, speak, man, woman, witty, water, drink, eat, burn, window, house, half, could, give, over, to, ….”.
    However, there were also some, fewer influences by that North-Germanic language, which was spoken by the Vikings (for example the word “egg”) in a period, at which invasions and settlement of Vikings happened in England (700-1050) quite often.

    To the Anglo-Saxon heritage/basis of the English language, which may add to 40-50% of English words today, later many words were added (also about 50%), which were derived from French language (enforced by new elite to Anglo-Saxons main population) after the invasion of England in 1066 by French speaking Normans (whose were derived from Vikings somewhat earlier ). Such typical non-Germanic, French derived words are: “difficult, important, language, necessary, face, obvious,.”..

    So, to say it in very simplified way, today’s English language (regarding its word collection) is a mixture of old German and old French language.

  • wayne

    Alex:
    Would that be American English, or the King’s English? (as in England.)
    (I think the humorous quote, is something along the lines: “One people separated by a common-language.”)

    Mark Levin just spent 20 minutes going over Cruz’s speech on tonight’s show, or rather the reaction thereto.
    Very illuminating & with which I agree 100%.

  • Joe

    I will unhappily vote for Trump, not happy the way conservatives are constantly marginalized, I applaud Ted Cruz, I am in total agreement with Robert on this.

  • Phill O

    Cotour “I think Cruz perceives the hatred for him from both sides as a badge of honor, and there is some validity to that. BUT. You must when you are involved in this dirtiest of games that humans play, this blood sport that is politics, you must do what must be done! And he has not.

    He attempted to be big, but he is small.

    I prefer my interpretation.”

    Bob “When Donald Trump becomes the next president I will be ready and waiting in the Senate to work with him to make sure the Constitution is defended and the federal government is brought under control.” Worded in this way, Cruz would not have been endorsing Trump, but he also would have not made himself an enemy of a significant percentage of the Republican voting bloc.”

    I would trust your first instincts Bob. Cotour I think is correct as with your assessment of what Cruz should have said.

    From the outside (I liked Cruz) Ted comes across as a baby. Politics is no place for a thin skin.

    The world is watching big time!!!!! I am wondering where funding has come from for those like Bush, Kasich, Cruz. If funding has come from Wall Street as Hillary’s, then these politicians are fulfilling their commitment by sabotage of Trump! So, Wall Street wins and the American worker loses!

    I have seen in Canada and in Alberta in particular, the end result of no compromise is the FAR LEFT wins to the detriment of the world.

    Come on, a person’s word should be their bond. Th losers are not standing by their signatures. They should not have signed on; they should have had enough forethought to see this eventuality.

    I am still not a Trump fan. However, the win by Hillary would mean America will go to hell far faster than under Obama, dragging all its allies with it.

    Black Live Matter has moved north and Toronto politicians a scared: with good reason.

    Bob, you are so right about your choice of statement. By it Cruz could have kept his dignity, fulfilled his contract, and most of all, been in a position to affect Trump policy in the future which is far more powerful than being the outsider as he will definitely be.

    Does anyone else think Trump set Cruz up?

  • Cotour

    Trump is the “bigger” and wiser man, did he set Cruz up? Yes, and Cruz should have understood that he was about to hang himself with his own rope. But he did not, he was too mired in his hurt feelings and his evisceration on the campaign trail. Trump made the correct strategic decision, he could do nothing else but let him speak and be a humble hero or a petty little man.

    Player politics is no place for petty little men with hurt feelings. A sharp guy, but a petty.

    But maybe Cruz will grow?

  • Andrew_W

    I’ve just watched Cruz speech, and I’m a bit taken aback by the nastiness of the attacks on him for only congratulating Trump, talking about the importance of Republican principles, and making a point about the importance of people to stand for what they believe in. In the rest of the world that speech, from a right of center politician would receive solid support from a Conservative side political parties convention.
    He was doing fine – until the brown shirts started their uproar.

  • wayne

    Cotour:
    I’m confused as to your logic & a bit critical of your ‘criticality’ toward Cruz.
    Cruz’s speech was known to all involved & issued to the press in the late afternoon. Trump was well aware Cruz would not be endorse him.
    I was watching the c-span feed & the camera’s are controlled by the rnc, as if one cue, the attack was perfectly orchestrated & choreographed.
    If Cruz wanted to be “petty” or any other derisive adjective, he could have done a number of things, totally under the rules, to completely disrupt the Convention and put the focus entirely on himself for 2-3 days. He chose not to do so.
    There’s, what.. 6 former Republican Candidates who have not endorsed Trump. Why aren’t the Trump apparatchik’s tripping out about them?
    Reagan did not endorse Ford in ’76, because the Ford/Dole acolytes were primarily responsible for trashing Reagan beyond belief. The same crowd & the same exact people, did the same thing to Cruz this time around.
    Trump aligns with Mitch/Ryan/Priebus, against Cruz.
    I find it very interesting the establishment rino’s that Trump is surrounding himself with, are totally obsessed with Cruz. Or Trump himself is obsessed with Cruz. Either way, it’s completely divisive & coming from the Trump camp, not Cruz.

    Trump managed to get a bare plurality of the votes in a Republican primary campaign, that included large numbers of open primaries. Conservatives easily make up 1/3 of the Republican electorate. Trump now says he doesn’t “need” those people to win.
    He needs every vote, from Republicans. He chooses to pander to socialists.

    To paraphrase Joe above;
    “I will not vote for Trump, not happy the way conservatives are constantly marginalized, I applaud Ted Cruz, I am in total agreement with Robert on this.”

  • Localfluff

    wayne:
    Of course Trump will pander to socialists. There are many more of them and numbers win the election. He’ll build buildings. Everyone understands that. Towers, without linoleum. He will be so releaved now that this silly conservative circus is over. Finally, he can start making the socialist promises the majority loves. Hillary will be haunted from the right and from the left, from the inside and out. He’ll make the poor girl cry. Socialism as it used to be, a promise of a better future and someone taking care of it for you.

  • wayne

    “Any man can ride a train. Only a wise man knows when to get off.”
    Eric Hoffer
    (True Believer: Thoughts on the nature of Mass Movements)

  • Localfluff

    Trump is loved because he is honest. “- I take take take!” Even if the poor girl wins, the best she could do is to appoint Trump secretary of state. He’ll be sooo good talking about lyin’ Putin and squeezing das Merkel, and Thing Thong Chou too. He won’t leave a meeting without forcing the enemy to pay for the fuel to get home. “- And your pants. Get’em off, get’em here. I want your pants too, or the deal is off”. They will be very happy to pay for it to get rid of him for the time being. He’s a lovely pain for all politicians in the world.

  • BSJ

    “…I cannot tolerate this unending stupidity from maniacs.”

    Yep, Ace pretty much sums up my feelings on the state of our Country in this one post.

    It would be a shame for him to quit, the day I start following him…

  • Phill O

    ” Cotour
    July 21, 2016 at 6:44 pm

    Trump is the “bigger” and wiser man, did he set Cruz up? Yes, and Cruz should have understood that he was about to hang himself with his own rope. But he did not, he was too mired in his hurt feelings and his evisceration on the campaign trail. Trump made the correct strategic decision, he could do nothing else but let him speak and be a humble hero or a petty little man.

    Player politics is no place for petty little men with hurt feelings. A sharp guy, but a petty.

    But maybe Cruz will grow?”

    I just watched the Trump speech and conclude you are correct. There was no mention (not even an intimation) about Ted or Jeb or Marco. This caused Trump to appear really presidential.

    Trump is hitting on some topics my wife and I feel close to. While we are Dr. & Dr. we relate better with the blue collar worker. Mind you, we have been from time to time. What we detest is the intellectual snobbery that so many academics portray. Not that the scientific discussions are unappreciated, just the snobbery of some. Give me Animas NM over Portal AZ any time. In this respect he and his family remind me of the LeTourneau family where the boys were tradesmen by their 16th birthdays. This resonates to blue collar folk better than being a debate champion.

    I met a whole lot of people in the trades who I thought had more on the ball than me (some duds too) and I graduated in Chemistry at the top, being the gold medal winner.

    Canada had one prime minister who was a stone mason before politics (which resonated well). His drawback was he was still a mason. Trump does not seem to have that problem.

    Can Ted grow from this?

    Reading about special warfare personnel, when one screws up, it takes a LOT to regain the trust level where others are willing to go out on patrols with them again.

    It will be an uphill battle. Bob’s original analysis of what to say, would have been better.

  • wayne

    Reference the Trump speech— what exactly is he going to cut?
    We have 40 million people on SNAP & 25 million people with free cell-phones. Medicaid costs alone are almost 1/2 of most State budgets. Labor participation rate is the lowest since the ’70’s.
    Unemployment rate is more like 15% & inflation is not zero. Interest rates have been artificially suppressed to nothing for 8 years.
    There will be another recession, interest rates & inflation will explode. People will lose their houses, people will be fired.
    What exactly would a Trump do, when that happens?
    –There’s no “growing our way out of this.” Tax cuts are always good, but we are way past that, the Federal government needs to be cut drastically & their power restrained even more so. The Debt grew from 8 trillion to 19 trillion, in 8 years.
    “Manufacturing,” aka “good jobs with good wages,” aka Bill Clinton, is NEVER coming back to the levels of even 25 years ago. Those jobs are gone & no trade-war is bringing them back.
    What I’m hearing from Trump– He’s Bernie, but with tax cuts and a “Great Wall.”
    He’s a billionaire who plays the Marxist class-warfare spiel, as well as Hillary does from the other side. Which should come as no surprise, he’s a liberal democrat at heart with the veneer of a Hoover. He’s going to manage the beast better, or so he thinks.

  • Joe

    The gentleman on the opposite side of I-96 incorrectly paraphrased me, I said I would unhappily vote for Trump, to do otherwise is a vote for Hillary Rotten Clinton! I voted in our states primary for Ted Cruz, the more this election cycle goes on, the more I dislike Trump, I don’t like the way he handled the primary race, he has shown low moral character, this a winner does not make.

  • Localfluff

    Trump’s hurt feelings, someone mentioned. But the Trumperator said in an the interview with Fox Megyn bleeding everywhere Kelly:
    “- I unwound myself.”
    So that’s that.

    Of course Ted Cruz had to speak on the convention. He was number two. This is not like four years ago when the liers and traitors who hate and corrupt the constitution and the party rules to keep Ron Paul from speaking. All republicans have proven to be anti-conservative by hating and destroying the only honest politician in the world. All republicans want ein Kaiser, and they have found one. Americans do everything emphatically, and now they do this. They are almost like Germans.

  • wayne

    LocalFluff–
    — it’s interesting from a purely inside-baseball perspective, that Rinse Prius still has his job as head of the RNC after delivering up McCain & Romney. Now he’s secure for another 4 years no matter who wins
    It’s also interesting to note, whomever wins in November, Mitch & Ryan do not lose.

    Joe– sorry I expropriated your words for my own benefit. (only changed 1 word!)
    I just do not buy the logic of “not voting Trump = voting for Hillary.” One could just as easily say that voting for, say, the Libertarian, was in effect a vote for Trump or a vote for Hillary, ad infinitum.

  • m d mill

    Trump, Cruz and Kasich gave a pledge to support the party nominee, remember?
    Does a pledge mean anything? That’s the end of the argument as far as i am concerned…simple ethics.
    They are all three(plus Clinton) such extreme narcissists that I doubt they could support anyone but themselves.
    Its pitiful.
    I voted for Cruz, but this election is about more than his hurt feelings, and his personal presidential ambitions.
    He was always a little strange, but I really tire of him now…there will be better conservative candidates in the future I trust.
    Kasich at least had the good sense to just stay away, even though he also will not keep his pledge. “If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all.”
    Isn’t it a shame Trump and Pence cannot change positions.

    I think RZ’s initial “statement” would have been perfect ie “When Donald Trump becomes the next president I will be ready and waiting in the Senate to work with him to make sure the Constitution is defended and the federal government is brought under control.” … you should have been a speech writer!

    P.S.
    Although Reagan did not formally use the term “I endorse” when speaking about Ford, he clearly called for a Ford victory as soon as he took the stage.

    “We must go forth from here UNITED, determined that what a great general said a few years ago is true: There is no substitute for victory, Mr. President (ie Ford),” Reagan said in closing.

  • wayne

    Ronald Reagan’s Remarks at the Republican National Convention
    8-19-76 (Full 8 minutes.)
    https://youtu.be/_eSmfldz_bA

    If Cruz is such a petty, nobody, geek, concerned only with his own status, why is the Trump campaign obsessed with him?
    Why is it so important to the Trump supporters that Cruz must not only formally endorse Trump he must publicly proclaim Trumps greatness? (What is that all about? There’s a diagnostic Code for that predilection.)

    Trump supporters better get to work– you don’t get to sit back and binge-watch this Drama on Netflix anymore, now you have to make calls & walk neighborhoods.

    It’s not “my fault,” it’s now your collective responsibility to drag your guy across the finish line.

    As a total aside– Trump’s first “big deal” (as explained last night in the fawning video) was renovating the Commodore Hotel, a project that did not work economically unless & until the City of New York gave him massive tax subsidies.
    He may have “built-it,” but we all paid for it. That’s how you make a billion dollars in real-estate. Trump doesn’t do spec-projects and like most real-estate moguls, he uses other-peoples-money, derived from money-center banks. And god help you, if you are an unsecured-creditor.

    Trump doesn’t follow the Dave Ramsey plan to real-estate wealth, he follows the Crony-plan.
    Now he’s some sort of Working Class Hero?
    He’s Hoover, without the Geology degree & the humanitarian-cred.

  • Joe

    It’s ok Wayne, just busting your chops, feel free to repurpose any of my stuff. As for why a non vote for trump or Garry Johnson would translate into a vote for hillary is just percentages, and has worked out that way for a couple of recent presidential elections, hopefully with Trump picking the right people for his cabinet positions, we could get to a less progressive government. Hillary will double down on progressive policy’s, I don’t think Bill Clinton would have the influence of pushing back to the middle people hope he would. My opinion of what happened at the convention with Ted Cruz’s wife being accosted was probably pushed by McConnel and company.

  • pzatchok

    I am surprised so many people think just one man, a presidential candidate, can be such a transformative figure.

    A president is not that influential over the long haul. He is just the center of attention for a few years.
    His influence is only as powerful as the representatives that back him and the representatives are only as powerful as the citizens allow them to be.

    Eight years of Obama and nothing he has done will be viewed by history as influential in any good way. And with the repeal of one law all of his legislative influence will be swept away. And that law is crumbling away on its own as we watch any ways.

    Trump is exactly what I have expected Trump to be.
    Trump gave Cruz all the rope Cruz wanted. Then he hung him with it. The fact that Cruz didn’t see it coming speaks more to Cruz and not Trump.
    Cruz was Trumps example of what could happen to a politician who openly opposes the new populous candidate. What do you think it said to Hillary and the Democrats?

    All the Democrats could say about the whole GOP convention was ‘Trump does not have the temperament to lead this nation.” Pretty much exactly what they said about Reagan. Tactically a very weak argument. They are scared.
    Trumps request for extra powers to fire Government workers sound a lot like Reagan’s firing of the air traffic controllers.

    Trump is already playing hardball politics and the dems are confused. He is already inside their heads and he is starting to get ahead of their strategy.

    Trump needs to start asking why the Obama administration is letting all the state insurance coops fail. Is it so they can eventually start blaming it all on the republicans? Or don’t they really care about the poor of America?
    Ask Hillary why she doesn’t have any ideas on how to fix the problem. A few details instead of platitudes would be nice. Then as soon as she says spend more money, Hammer her like a nail with it.

    From here on out its all about Hillary.

  • Cotour

    Reading all of these comments I start out addressing them first with this one comment by my friend Wayne that stuck out to me because it is different in this conversation but should be properly understood in the context of debt and some of Trumps comments.

    “Trump doesn’t follow the Dave Ramsey plan to real-estate wealth,”

    Debt is a tool, its like a hammer, you can use a hammer to build yourself a beautiful house or you can hit yourself over the head with it. (you will figure it out eventually, or not) Dave Ramsey’s financial approach (cash) does not necessarily apply in New York and any major metropolitan city for that matter, even in the private housing market in those venues. Maybe in Kentucky and Tennessee, but not in New York as a rule, the cash requirements are just too high. Debt (borrowing money) or leveraging your money is not a bad thing if you have a proper plan and you work your plan with common sense and discipline. The same thing with Credit cards, they can be a powerful tool of creation or it can be a means of financial destruction.

    Now to Trump and politics in general: I see practiced and polished, traditionally schooled politicians like, Cruz as being symmetrical. Think of them all as round steel rings all of approximately the same size and value. They are essentially the same. This incestuous tendency literally breeds a lot of “the same” and this tendency has delivered us to this point of perversion and stagnation that we find ourselves, it is unnatural.

    When this symmetrical condition of the “same” specifically gets to a particular critical mass, especially in politics, there becomes an opportunity and really a need for Asymmetry. Asymmetry reflects the nature of natural systems, Asymmetry results in diversity and change and keeps thing going in the correct direction, forward, and not just left to wither and die because “the status quo or fear of change is what is best”.

    Trump IMO is an Asymmetrical American meat ball and freely passes through the static symmetrical steel political ring model, that is why he was able to crush ALL of his competitors. I am an Asymmetrical American meat ball, many people reading this are Asymmetrical American meat balls, the Founders were the ultimate Asymmetrical American meat balls.

    I think that just about sums up what my position is on this subject of politics and change and what explains Trumps unusual success in this election cycle.

    (Consider yourselves…………………..ALL…………………………American meat balls! :)

  • Joe

    Pzatchok, agree with you, to answer your question about the poor, they don’t care about the poor, they only care that they have a group of people whom they say they care about and will use them for political gain, other than that, no they don’t care. The media are the people that raised Obama’s status as a brilliant man and did not even vet him, Trump comes to the table with a laundry list of accomplishments, some good, some not so good. Wayne, yep, Trump supporters will have to drag him across the line!

  • wayne

    pzatchok — interesting comments, some of which I agree, some I don’t.

    Joe– no problem (at least I gave you credit eh!) (Are you in Michigan? I’m on the shoreline)

    m d mill- interesting comments as well. (some of which I do agree, some I don’t.)

    Phil O– same, appreciate your input, just don’t agree entirely, but no problem. How did Canada turn toward socialism? (I’ve been boning on British History lately & Canada is next on my list.)

    I really have no clue if Trump can win. I tend to think he can win on “law-n-order,” but that means drastically different things, to different people.

    Personally, I’m not voting for him or Hillary. Don’t hate the guy, but I do think people are projecting onto him, quite a bit.

    What worries me above all— Mitch/Ryan control the Legislature and Rinse still controls the GOP.

  • Joe

    Wayne, Plymouth, near the republic of Ann Arbor! No harm no fowl.

  • Nick P

    If Cruz is ever in another major race he’s telegraphed his weakness to his opponents. They know how to get to him and they will go for the jugular.

  • What has depressed me most about too many of the comments here, epitomized by Nick’s comment, is that no one sees anything wrong with wrongly attacking a man’s family with outright lies, merely for political gain. Trump did this, and no one calls him “petty”, “a little man”, “a small time player”, “small”, “a baby”, “strange”.

    Instead, commenters here have attacked Cruz with these insulting terms, though all he did was to congratulate Trump for winning, outline why Hillary Clinton should not be president, and then asked everyone to “vote their conscience.” To me, considering the vile things Trump said during the primaries about Cruz’s wife and father, this speech by Cruz is in fact incredibly honorable, principled, and decent, even if it might not have been as nuanced politically as it should have been. The only person who behavior really fits these terms is Trump, who compounded his brown-shirt tactics here by having his agents at the convention encourage the booing.

    Worse, Nick as well as others here now suggest that what Trump did should now become the standard of behavior for politicians, because we voters no longer challenge this disgusting behavior, and are in fact supportive of it.

    In other words, brown-shirting someone is now the new standard! Hail the new millennium! To quote:

    If Trump’s delegates had not booed and caused a ruckus, but instead had remained silent or applauded at Cruz’s exhortation to vote for down ticket races, everyone today would be talking about Pence and his speech, and the discussion would be about positive things associated with Trump and Pence and how they are going to move forward after the convention to at least possible victory.

    But that is not what Trump’s supporters are interested in. They are interested in having a constant object of hatred and scorn, and it’s preferred if the target is a Republican. This is the driving force behind their support for Trump, principles be damned. Trump knows it too, which is why he was perfectly happy to let Ted Cruz go on stage, as long as the signal was clearly sent to his supporters that Ted Cruz is supposed to be the new object of hate.

    Very depressing. We truly are heading for a dark age.

  • Cotour

    Before reading any further than your first few sentences, what you refuse to recognize is the context of the election and blood sport campaigning that these Asymmetrical personal attack vehicles have been used. In the context of the election and campaigning no one cares about Cruz’s hurt feelings! No one.

    Cruz was required to take care of business, and he took care of his own business and not the country’s. Cruz comes out as the smaller and petty man.

    I will now continue to read.

  • Joe

    Agree Robert! More like a lynch mob.

  • Cotour

    “Worse, Nick as well as others here now suggest that what Trump did should now become the standard of behavior for politicians,”

    This is not possible for the garden variety of politician, because they are symmetrical, they are all generally the same. They are unable to operate in any other mode. And if they do they are correctly perceived as being inauthentic by the public. The public intuitively knows.

    Trump, like I have pointed out is “different” and is very difficult for the garden variety politician to deal with. What do I base this on? Where Trump is right at this moment.

  • Phill O

    wayne

    “Phil O– same, appreciate your input, just don’t agree entirely, but no problem. How did Canada turn toward socialism? (I’ve been boning on British History lately & Canada is next on my list.)”

    How did Canada turn toward socialism? This is hard to answer, but I will try.

    The country has been governed by the liberals (Grits) for about 75% of the time. The Tories (conservatives) have had their chances. When Mulroney got in, we all cheered until he sold us out bringing in the Value Added Tax known as the GST 9Good and Services Tax = government spending tax) and NAFTA. The next election they went from a vast majority to 2 seats. The Reform party (like the tea party) split the vote and the liberals won for three consecutive terms.

    The liberals were pushed out by the Harper government which operated as a minority government for a few shortened terms, then got a majority. Operating as a minority government showed how good the Harper government was at compromise. With the Harper government Canada supplied armed forces to Afghanistan until the liberals forced the Harper government to withdraw as per the agreement voted on (2009). Now the very people who pushed Harper are putting troops back; but with stonewalling.

    Universal health care was brought in originally to ensure treatment of life threatening issues. Now it is for scratches and sex changes. The cost for the government run system is enormous! Little is left for defense. This is also the case in Europe. When the USA is used to a country’s defense strategy, they can have universal health care.

    The time frames for the VA hospitals is FAST compared to universal health care!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    My example of costs for government run insurance is a true story. In 2004, we moved from Manitoba (gov. run auto insurance) to Alberta (private insurance). My farm truck (exactly the same insurance, use and setting) was $1,500/yr in Manitoba and $750/yr in Alberta. When I was consulting (laboratory services) I learned rather quickly that to make the same profit I needed to charge any project involved with the government, about 3 times that for private industry.

    Now, the conservative (Harper) government lowered the corporate tax rate towards the 15% level to stimulate business. Now the liberal (Trudeau) government is putting in carbon taxes and raising taxes once more making it more profitable for business to work in other countries. This is happening at the time of low oil prices exacerbating the economic problem. It is no wonder Obama and Trudeau are buddies.

    The Trudeau government is opening the flood gates to the Islamic refugees. There can not be realistic vetting. Now, what will the opinion of Trump’s government be towards Canada? I know what mine would be. The idea of putting in refugees camps in an Islamic country is the solution the Trump campaign has put forth; seems reasonable for a return of those folk when the world solves the problem.

    Alberta had a premier (Ralph Kline = king Ralph) who got the province out of debt not just eliminating deficit spending). Those who followed reversed this and the current far left gov. is borrowing mega bucks and increasing taxes significantly. This at the worst possible time; low oil prices.

    There are consequences to a liberal agenda; fewer jobs! The Trump campaign is speaking to this as were others in the GOP race. The USA should not want to put a system as in Canada; there will be no jobs for all the disenfranchised in the inner cities! The only way for some will be to push drugs (and gangs). This has happened in Liverpool England, according to folk I have met who were from there.

    Should the right fight each other, and Hillary win the election, the message sent to the world is that laws do not need to be followed and the USA is absolutely corrupt. The beacon of hope is removed from the world.

    Will Trump become a Brian Mulroney and renege on promises? No one knows but the placement of lifetime conservatives in the congress is imperative. The defeat of Hillary is mandatory. I sure wish Cruz had of said what Bob Z indicated so that his voice would have been effective.

    If Trump wins, then I must seriously consider seeking US citizenship.

  • Phill O

    Bob “Worse, Nick as well as others here now suggest that what Trump did should now become the standard of behavior for politicians, because we voters no longer challenge this disgusting behavior, and are in fact supportive of it.”

    I can not disagree with you more about Nick’s comment. Flatly stated, he has pointed out a weakness of Cruz that will be exploited. By your attack on Nick and others, have you become Trump?

    Look, I have worked for bullies and done well. What I have seen with these folk is that when you work for them, you are the greatest. On the other side, well not so good. Consider how Trump now treats Ben or Chris etc who are now in his camp. These guys are the greatest. What bullies are really good at is putting people in place who can do the job. Bullies usually know their own deficiencies and get people to compliment them. Just think about the folk who helped you map Crystal Cave. You (Bob) relied on some great people! By doing that you enhanced their capabilities!

  • Nick P

    “Worse, Nick as well as others here now suggest that what Trump did should now become the standard of behavior for politicians”

    Bob, I suggested no such thing. I made an observation on what will happen, not what should happen. It shouldn’t be the norm but it IS the norm. You can play clean all you want and watch Hillary win the election. I live in the real world. You should come join us.

  • Phil wrote: “I can not disagree with you more about Nick’s comment. Flatly stated, he has pointed out a weakness of Cruz that will be exploited. By your attack on Nick and others, have you become Trump?”

    The only way these kinds of attacks can be exploited successfully is if the voters buy into them. Before Bill Clinton, Trump’s behavior would have been a clear no-winner. Trust me, I am unfortunately old enough to remember this, and my memory as you know is very good.

    Now however voters buy into it. To quote again the second link I provided in my previous comment,

    Trump’s supporters really and truly don’t understand how well he constantly plays them. He treats them exactly like he treats his reality TV audience, and he knows that the successful ingredient to any “reality” TV show is the character who everyone loves to hate. I really only watched the first season of The Apprentice and for that season it was Omarosa. I assume subsequent seasons of The Apprentice had it but pretty much every reality TV show includes this character on purpose – for Survivor it was Richard Hatch, The Bachelor had Courtney, and so on and so on. “Reality” TV understands that nothing keeps viewers coming back like someone they want to see get “kicked off,” preferably in some humiliating fashion.

    This is what Trump does. I don’t deny it. I simply find it depressing that voters are no longer discerning enough to see it and to reject it for the shallow, hateful, scapegoating that it is.

  • Nick wrote: “It shouldn’t be the norm but it IS the norm. You can play clean all you want and watch Hillary win the election. I live in the real world. You should come join us.”

    Bah. That’s just another way of saying that because fascism is now the majority I should play along. Sorry but that ain’t happening. The rest of the country might have decided that the use of Nazi-like tactics is acceptable. I never will.

  • Nick P

    Bob

    “That’s just another way of saying that because fascism is now the majority I should play along. Sorry but that ain’t happening. The rest of the country might have decided that the use of Nazi-like tactics is acceptable. I never will.”

    So I take this to mean that you are voting for Hillary because of you ethical stand? I’m in complete agreement with you on the ethics but at this point that and $5 will get me a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

    Anyway, we don’t have to agree. That’s what makes for discussions.

  • Localfluff

    “- Ted’s got a great intellect. He just doesn’t know how to use it”.
    Trump is a quoting machine. And HE certainly knows how to use it.

  • Nick: As I have said repeatedly, I still do not know what I will do come election day. I have been waiting and watching what Trump does in order to decide whether I am willing to gamble my vote on him, or others.

    I must add that while some of Trump’s recent decisions have been encouraging, the overall vicious nature of his campaign, as well as the discussion on this comment thread, have not been helpful to him.

  • wayne

    Phill O: appreciate your mini-primer on Canada. I just finished a lengthy lecture series covering Britain from 1900-1980. (and I’ve recently gotten totally hooked on Louder with Crowder.)

    Joe–cool. Been through Plymouth & have relatives in Dearbornistan. (Wife was from the Heart of the Thumb, Marlette, but we all escaped to the Lake Michigan Coast.)

    Mr. Z has this nailed shut.

    We could quibble over the adjectives, but both Trump & Hillary are Statists at heart. It’s just a matter of degree & who’s ox is being gored at any given moment.

    (When the Stock Market drops 2,000 points in one day, and WHEN the Fed raises interest-rates, we’ll see exactly how a Trump governs & I’m betting it won’t be pretty or ‘American’ in nature.)

    PLANET OF THE APES (1968)
    https://youtu.be/XvuM3DjvYf0

  • Wayne,

    For your information, rather than simply provide the link to the youtube video, you can embed it here. You simply right click on the video and choose “Copy embed code.” You then paste that into your comment.

  • Andrew_W

    My interpretation of why the booing was arranged is that Trump lives for the moment, and he cannot resist an opportunity to grind an opponent into the ground, he’s very much a you’re-either-for-me-or-against-me sort of person, if you’re for him he’s great, very supportive, you’ll probably lay down your life for him, but if you’re against him he’ll destroy you and he won’t forgive or forget.
    I see that characteristic as a big part of why he’s been successful in business, it’s also that characteristic that makes him so scary as a politician, other national leaders like that have legacies of destroying their countries through their partisanship. Erdoğan is doing it now.

  • Localfluff

    Is it statism or entrepreneurship, is it socialism or capitalism, when you yourself own and manage the state like your family business?

  • wayne

    Mr. Z., thank you.

    LocalFluff- amazingly intuitive.

    Andrew_W: well put.

    Bottom line for me, & everything else is just my own noise; Cruz didn’t do anything “wrong,” Trump is the nominee.

    I’ve been told for months “Trump is the only one who can beat Hillary,”
    so… get on with it!
    Why waste any time attacking Cruz?

  • Mitch S.

    I agree with Robert’s first reaction (they say on a multiple choice question your first guess is usually right).

    Cruz didn’t have to endorse Trump. If he felt Trump’s insult’s to his family were too much to bear then he should have declined the invitation to speak.
    But he chose to speak. Chose to speak to a crowd that nominated Trump.
    Yet still, had he decided he didn’t want to endorse Trump but did want to urge Conservatives to vote, he should have laid it out at the start of his speech. Take a stand like an adult and risk the crowd displeasure.
    But no, Cruz dragged us along until the end and walked away.

    If someone you dislike invites you over for dinner, you either decline or you attend and behave.
    You don’t eat at their table then piss on their living room rug.
    Cruz wasn’t pissing on Trump, he was pissing on the millions of Republicans who nominated Trump.

    No, I don’t see this as a setup by Trump “brownshirts”. The crowd gave Cruz a warm welcome, it was only toward the end when Cruz’s “Brutus move” (as the NYT called it) became evident, did the crowd turn.

    I’ve been trying to like Cruz, but now it’s clear to me that conservatives need to find a new leader.
    Following Cruz is the way to the road of impotence and irrelevance.
    Watch a real leader – here’s the Reagan clip Wayne posted earlier:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eSmfldz_bA&feature=youtu.be

  • Mitch S.

    (Don’t know if I posted this and it’s in the pipeline, but just in case:)

    I agree with Robert’s first reaction (they say on a multiple choice question your first guess is usually right).

    Cruz didn’t have to endorse Trump. If he felt Trump’s insult’s to his family were too much to bear then he should have declined the invitation to speak.
    But he chose to speak. Chose to speak to a crowd that nominated Trump.
    Yet still, had he decided he didn’t want to endorse Trump but did want to urge Conservatives to vote, he should have laid it out at the start of his speech. Take a stand like an adult and risk the crowd displeasure.
    But no, Cruz dragged us along until the end and walked away.

    If someone you dislike invites you over for dinner, you either decline or you attend and behave.
    You don’t eat at their table then piss on their living room rug.
    Cruz wasn’t pissing on Trump, he was pissing on the millions of Republicans who nominated Trump.

    No, I don’t see this as a setup by Trump “brownshirts”. The crowd gave Cruz a warm welcome, it was only toward the end when Cruz’s “Brutus move” (as the NYT called it) became evident, did the crowd turn.

    I’ve been trying to like Cruz, but now it’s clear to me that conservatives need to find a new leader.
    Following Cruz is the way to the road of impotence and irrelevance.
    Watch a real leader – here’s the Reagan clip Wayne posted earlier:
    (i’ll try the embed code)

  • Joe

    “Why waste time attacking Cruz?” The establishment is to blame, Mitch McConnel has never been willing to work with Ted Cruz, I think it’s the establishment more than any thing that’s too blame.

  • Mitch S.

    I agree with Robert’s first reaction (they say on a multiple choice question your first guess is usually right).

    Cruz didn’t have to endorse Trump. If he felt Trump’s insults to his family were too much to bear then he should have declined the invitation to speak.
    But he chose to speak. Chose to speak to a crowd that nominated Trump.
    Yet still, had he decided he didn’t want to endorse Trump but did want to urge Conservatives to vote, he should have laid it out at the start of his speech. Take a stand like an adult and risk the crowd displeasure.
    But no, Cruz dragged us along until the end and walked away.

    If someone you dislike invites you over for dinner, you either decline or you attend and behave.
    You don’t eat at their table then piss on their living room rug.
    Cruz wasn’t pissing on Trump, he was pissing on the millions of Republicans who nominated Trump.

    No, I don’t see this as a setup by Trump “brownshirts”. The crowd gave Cruz a warm welcome, it was only toward the end when Cruz’s “Brutus move” (as the NYT called it) became evident, did the crowd turn.

    I’ve been trying to like Cruz, but now it’s clear to me that conservatives need to find a new leader.
    Following Cruz is the way to the road of impotence and irrelevance.
    Watch a real leader – here’s the Reagan clip Wayne posted earlier:
    (i’ll try the embed code)

  • wayne

    “There is some justification at least in the taunt that many of the pretending defenders of “free enterprise” are in fact defenders of privileges and advocates of Government activity in their favor rather than opponents of all privileges. In principle the Industrial Protectionism and Government-supported Cartels and agricultural policies of the conservative groups are not different from the proposals for a more far-reaching direction of economic life sponsored by the socialists.”

    F.A. Hayek
    “Individualism and Economic Order”

  • Localfluff

    Whatever Ted Cruz is up to, it isn’t working. He is now an ineffective representative of his ideas. Booed by the audience and discarded by the nominee. And they say that Trump is the one who’s not diplomatic!

  • wayne

    Localfluff– now you’re just being provocative.
    Cruz is still a Senator & has a well oiled State ground-apparatus in Texas.

  • Andrew_W

    “Booed by the audience and discarded by the nominee.”
    Given that the booing was orchestrated isn’t that proof that Trump is the one who’s not diplomatic?

  • wayne

    Andrew_W;
    agree.

    Yow… listening to Trump-attacks-Cruz clips, on the Levin show tonight; Trump will just not give up attacking Cruz.
    Trump is far more fixated/obsessed with Cruz, than I thought. He’s got some weird elementary-schoolyard bully-thing, going on.
    Cruz might be the geeky kid in chess-club, but Trump is playing the insecure bully who demands total allegiance. (And no way Cruz grovels & scrapes on his knees, to the future King.)

  • Cotour

    I think this need to cut his enemy’s head off and put it on a pike for all to see is part of his obsessive personality, possibly related to being successful in the convention making him hyper / manic ?

    The better move IMO is to not comment and let Cruz (or anyone else who you have politically vanquished) swing in the wind with his issues by just having no comment, there is power in silence. Trump weakens his position with his need to over explain and justify.

  • wayne

    Cotour–

    Agree in large part.
    Trump is a “natural” at being flamboyant/outrageous, and he has achieved a lot. He’s comfortable on TV & in front of crowds, says a lot of stuff people intuitively feel. (and stuff that people don’t like, across the board)

    He does appear to have some key internal-things, (don’t we all, I fully grant) that pop out occasionally (and some are becoming a pattern,) that are really revealing about who-he-is. (good, bad or neutral, we are supposed to decide if over-all, we trust the guy, enough. Personally I don’t, but I’m not trying to be hyper-critical of the guy, “just sayin'” Not working for or against him, just watching.)

    It’s just the way he is. He apparently needs to “win,” by any means, and afterword you are supposed to thank him & proclaim his greatness. “It’s just business… we’re all friends, if you do X.”
    As noted somewhere above, Trump is probably fiercely loyal to his friends, just don’t cross him, ever, in any endeavor.
    (I’m not worried about Trump having the keys-to-the-nuclear-bombs, I’m worried about exactly what he & his followers mean by “Law and Order.”

    It’s going to be “interesting” going forward, no matter what.

  • Cotour

    That’s Trump.

    Another model he follows is surrounding himself with sharp people to get done what must get done, my question is this. Who consistently gets in his face when it needs to be gotten into (for perspective of course) and survives to do it again?

    And although I do believe that he is a competent, compassionate and benevolent boss I think that you make a good point about what he exactly means by “law and order”, how is that going to be addressed and how is it going to square with the Constitution?

    Crazy now, going to get crazier and then its really going to get crazy (and interesting).

  • m d mill

    When you make a pledge ,you bite your lip and keep your pledge. This goes for Kasich and Cruz, it has nothing to do with Trump! Its just that simple.

  • M D Mill: Do you have a problem with Trump’s renouncement of the pledge as well? In fact, he did this before anyone else, in March, which to my mind kind of frees the others of their obligation.

    Just asking, y’know.

  • wayne

    Trump over explaining himself this morning, while he attacks Cruz again & again.
    (I really wonder what Pence is thinking to himself.)
    >starts at 13:35 to 24:00

  • Phill O

    Cruz is human and that is his biggest problem. So is Trump!

    Ben Carson has shown himself to be very forgiving and the biggest man of them all. He appears to have a short memory and that is very attractive in a person. I could be friends with him!

    Bob, I think you are very much like Trump!

  • Phill O

    PS Bob, that was a compliment!

  • Phill: I’m glad you say so because I do not see it that way. In fact, your logic completely escapes me.

  • Localfluff

    @Phill O
    Ben Carson immediately struck me as a nice guy. Intelligent, educated, reasonable, someone who would be a great interesting good friend. A politician whom I maybe could trust. And completely incompetent in debates! Almost invisible and mumbling incomprehensibly. However, America is not electing a friend. The US needs a ruthless leader to clean out some rotten stuff, replacing it with fresh stuff which hasn’t rotten yet. There’s no pretty way to get it done. You don’t really need a philosopher brain surgeon, but a dentist with a pair of pliers to literally remove the pain. And a towel for the blood on the floor. That’s the most optimistic vision of the future.

  • m d mill

    reply to RZ:
    I do have a problem with Trump. It is hard to imagine a more tactless, graceless ,shallow person.
    He was NEVER my choice…as I said I voted for Cruz, as the best choice available.
    If Trump had lost he would almost certainly have broken his pledge to support the nominee of the party,
    and I would have been just as critical of him. One of the perks of winning is you don’t have to prove you are a gracious loser.
    But Trump is the nominee, the only nominee available and much superior to Clinton, in all likely hood…think of 1 to 5 Supreme court nominees alone (he admired Scalia, Clinton admires Ginsburg) .
    If Cruz could not get behind that, then he should have said nothing. I expected Cruz to do the right thing , but the hard thing, the classy thing. He did not and he lost me. This election is critically important, and not about Ted Cruz’s hurt feelings. I already knew Trump was classless, I expected better of Cruz, for the sake of the conservative cause. A principled mans pledge is not dependent on the unprincipled acts others, don’t you agree?
    As Reagan, a man of class, said in the conclusion of his speech after a very rancorous convention (there were fist fights on the floor):
    “We must go forth from here UNITED, determined that what a great general said a few years ago is true: There is no substitute for victory, Mr. President (ie Ford).” ….and he then put his arm around Ford (the nominee) and shook his hand…and won the Presidency four years later.

    But Ted Cruz was mostly thinking of Ted Cruz…I didn’t appreciate that.

  • MD Mill wrote: “But Ted Cruz was mostly thinking of Ted Cruz…I didn’t appreciate that.”

    Well, from my perspective, Cruz was actually thinking more of his wife and father, not himself. If he had been thinking of himself he probably would have done the easy thing, made believe Trump’s vicious and baseless attacks on them (which by the way Trump is still doing, even though he is no longer running against Cruz) didn’t happen, and gone along to get along.

    He didn’t. Remember, his speech did not oppose Trump at all. He congratulated Trump for winning, laid out the reasons to not vote for Clinton, and then asked Republicans to vote their conscience. I agree he could have done better, as I noted in my initial post, but still what he did seems to me that this was quite reasonable, all things considered.

  • Cotour

    Localfluff:

    You once again make the most pertinent point about Trump V any other empowered president. There will be blood (metaphorically and politically of course).

    But this made me laugh out loud: “Bob, I think you are very much like Trump!” . I immediately imagined the Zman reading and reacting to it :) Too funny, totally out of left field.

  • wayne

    As noted elsewhere, I watched a fair portion of the rnc convention, either live or replay, via C-span. I dislike people telling me what I just heard & totally fled from FOX last Fall. Don’t watch Networks, CNN or MSLSD, and don’t read Politico or Breitbart.

    Saw Cruz’s speech live & watched Trump re-attack Cruz at his Friday speech with Pence.

    He IS totally obsessed with Cruz. A giant Gift, to his dear friend, Hillary.

    – Liz Peek (she’s a piece of work, oh boy!) from the Fiscal times, on JBS last night, totally spun the Anti-Cruz Narrative, which is absolutely, word-for-word, identical to what I am hearing from some of the commenters here.
    She claims she’s a “republican,” but “that Ted Cruz is a wreckingball and destroying his career & placing the election in hillary’s hands.”

    I heard the same stuff in ’80 and ’84, (and any time a Conservative voice came from the non-establishment RINO’s) pure RINO Conservative Hating, and from some of the same people who hated Reagan. (Mitch and Ryan are not disappointed, they love it when Trump attacks Cruz.)

    I’m sincerely interested in knowing– how many people here, who consider themselves “republican” but dislike Cruz, actually watched his speech??

    I heard an interesting comment on radio yesterday (from a caller, not a Mastermind)– comparing Trump to ex NYC mayor Bloomberg.

    A billionaire democrat, who morphed “republican” to get elected, and then governed as a far left billionaire democrat.

    Trump is a Bloomberg.

    When he attacks Cruz, he attacks ME, and a large Conservative Voting block, which he desperately needs.

  • Phill O

    Localfluff
    “However, America is not electing a friend.”

    Absolutely!!!! What I see in Trump is a leader; Some one who can get the job done and to heck with feelings. In this respect Bob Z is a great leader, sometimes lacking tact but this is not a bad thing!

    Cruz has played the evangelical card so this leaves me to use scripture. One proverbs indicate a righteous man will fulfill his sworn oath sometimes to his own detriment. James is written to rather wealthy Jews and early on he indicates to do nothing from selfish ambition. To these, Cruz losses evangelicals. However, he is allowed to be human and make mistakes. Bob’s early comment of what he should have said is very insightful and true.

    Did Trump behave humanly and wrong? You bet ya.

    m d mill

    “I already knew Trump was classless, I expected better of Cruz, for the sake of the conservative cause. A principled mans pledge is not dependent on the unprincipled acts others, don’t you agree?
    As Reagan, a man of class, said in the conclusion of his speech after a very rancorous convention (there were fist fights on the floor):
    “We must go forth from here UNITED, determined that what a great general said a few years ago is true: There is no substitute for victory, Mr. President (ie Ford).” ….and he then put his arm around Ford (the nominee) and shook his hand…and won the Presidency four years later.”

    You bet ya!

  • wayne

    Ronald Reagan’s Remarks at the Republican National Convention
    8-19-76 (Full 8 minutes.)
    https://youtu.be/_eSmfldz_bA

    Interestingly, Craig Shirley is totally convinced Nancy Reagan did not vote for Ford in ’76, and he seriously doubts that Ron did either.
    Either way…
    Reagan campaigned heavily on the Platform that year, if that was a tacit endorsement of Ford, so be it.
    Cruz isn’t Reagan, but I am now convinced, “Trump is Bloomberg.”

    The Ford/Dole apparatchik’s absolutely hated Reagan and some of those folks are now working for Trump. Mitch/Ryan/Priebus— all hate Cruz, and now love Trump.

    That’s all the evidence I would ever need.

  • Mitch S

    Let’s remember Trump vs Cruz is over (will somebody please remind The Donald?).
    It’s now a question of Trump vs Clinton

    I agree with Robert’s first reaction to Cruz’s speech (they say on a multiple choice question your first guess is usually right).

    Cruz didn’t have to endorse Trump. If he felt Trump’s insults to his family were too much to bear then he should have declined the invitation to speak.
    But he chose to speak. Chose to speak to a crowd that nominated Trump.
    Yet still, had he decided he didn’t want to endorse Trump but did want to urge Conservatives to vote, he should have laid it out at the start of his speech. Take a stand like an adult and risk the crowd displeasure.
    But no, Cruz dragged us along until the end and walked away.

    If someone you dislike invites you over for dinner, you either decline or you attend and behave.
    You don’t eat at their table then pee on their living room rug.
    Cruz wasn’t peeing on Trump, he was peeing on the millions of Republicans who nominated Trump.

    No, I don’t see this as a setup by Trump “brownshirts”. The crowd gave Cruz a warm welcome, it was only toward the end when Cruz’s “Brutus move” (as the NYT called it) became evident, did the crowd turn.

    I’ve been trying to like Cruz, but now it’s clear to me that conservatives need to find a new leader.
    (No, not Trump – he leads the Republican Party and is better than Hillary, but the Conservative branch needs to find someone)
    Following Cruz is the way to the road of impotence and irrelevance.
    Conservative ideas and principles are more important that an individual politician’s career goals.

    Watch the Reagan clip Wayne posted earlier, that’s real conservative leadership.
    (Look how his story of the time capsule leaves the crowd in stunned silence, then he picks them up again to end on a high note – all in eight minutes!)`

  • Mitch S

    Yes!, good analogy (guess Wayne and I were listening to the same radio program).
    Bloomberg is a pretty liberal Republican but as someone living in the NYC metro, I can tell you he was way better than what the Democrats offered.
    Thank goodness New Yorkers overlooked his political imperfections and put him in office.
    Unfortunately New yorkers forgot what pre-Giuliani NYC was like and put the politically pure DiBlasio in.

    If Trump can do close to as good a job as Pres as Bloomberg did as mayor, then we’ll be way better off than a Hillary presidency.

  • wayne

    Mitch S:
    Interesting take, some I agree, some not so much.

    Yes, I must give credit to that trucker from Oklahoma, on the Levin Show yesterday, for the Bloomberg thought. I think it’s right on point & had not heard/pondered that before now.

    I wish Cruz delivered a better speech. But I just can not fault the man for being an extremely consistent Conservative with a powerful inherent message.

    Trump is the nominee. I’m fully aware that’s the way it is. Don’t hate the guy, (yet… he’s working it hard) & just not voting for him.
    He does himself & his followers a massive disservice, by playing the bully toward Cruz.

    I actually watched Hillary introduce her VP & maybe 15 minutes worth of her speechifying today.
    She has a Prompter in her podium & she’s not-bad, at all, with her delivery. (it’s improved dramatically, although I dislike her cadence.)
    We absolutely can not underestimate Hillary or the democrats.
    If I had to bet, today, Hillary probably wins.
    — It will go back-n-forth all Summer, endless psychobabble betwixt them. Reality TV gone insane, on amphetamines.
    (and I hate Hillary/Mitch/Ryan)

    “So it goes.”
    Billy Pilgrim
    Slaughterhouse 5.
    (Vonnegut)

    It’s not that I don’t “care” who wins between the two, it’s more so, I fully realize I can’t do anything about it anymore. Not this time around. I’m just in “observation” mode going forward, except for the down-ballot & some key races in other States.

  • Cotour

    Ask any Democrat who says “I hate the establishment” how they are going to resolve this conundrum:

    Supporting Hillary.

    If you have had enough and despise the “establishment” then you can not support Hillary. (that is unless you actually do support the establishment and do not know it)

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/sorry-hillary-you-are-the-establishment/2016/02/05/0aa7cf80-cc27-11e5-a7b2-5a2f824b02c9_story.html

    Like it or not, Trump is the change, what ever that may mean. Trump and Bernie represented the fed up among us in this political contest, and Hillary certainly represents the establishment. The logic is irrefutable. (this will make any Democrats head explode)

    Bernie was never going to be the candidate of the Democrats and was shown the door, and Trump was sooo asymmetrical that no one knew how to deal with him and is positioned to be the counter establishment president. What ever that may mean.

  • Mitch S.

    ****** this is to keep the blog software from claiming I already posted this!! **************
    ———————————————————————————————————————————-

    Ah, Mike Levin’s show, yup that trucker!

    Yes Cruz is consistent – a consistent douce-ba.. er, consistently self-centered.
    Yes, there are things about Cruz that I like but ultimately I see him as someone that will lead his branch of conservatives into the wilderness (never to reach the Promised Land).

    I suppose his political strategy is for whoever wins to utterly fail in office, leaving a desperate electorate to anoint him saviour. Of course a failed Trump would drive the electorate to the Democrats, so a Hillary victory works for him.
    The damage to the nation that Hillary would do? – mere collateral damage…
    A true, lasting victory for conservatives will come from educating the electorate. It’s a slow, difficult task and needs leaders who have patience, humility and genuine love of American principles and the American people.

    Maybe my view is due to the religious education of my youth.
    I see the bible tell us of the founder of the religion, Abraham, a man who bargained with G-d to save cities full of sinners. And Moses, a man with a speech impediment and an anger management problem who was declared the greatest prophet due to his humility and love of his people despite their flaws.

    In modern times I think of MLK, a man with human flaws who showed almost superhuman courage and determination, pursuing a peaceful path to civil liberty in the face of threats to his life and the temptation to join those preaching violence.
    And Ronald Reagan, a man willing to engage with the “evil empire” to save the world from nuclear destruction. He also dealt with a hostile congress to make major progress. How? – by communicating to the people.

    I don’t see such a figure at the moment but it’s not always easy to know.
    No, not Trump, but I’m keeping an eye on Pence.
    Cruz – sorry, not now. Maybe if he’s sent into the wilderness by himself for a decade, he’ll return a better, more mature man, but we should stop feeding his ego.

  • wayne

    “Ah, Mike Levin’s show, yup that trucker!”

    Yow…an elitist attitude.

    The “wilderness” Theme is a bit overdone, as well.

    We have more Republican’s holding elected-office, across the board, across the Nation, since the Civil War.
    There’s a heavy RINO contingent entrenched in those roughly 600 people, but progress nonetheless.

    The Crony’s & the usual-suspects on both sides, created Donald J. Trump, now it’s their job to drag their guy across the finish line.

  • Mitch S.

    It’s hard to convey tone via text.
    Wasn’t knocking the trucker at all, it was my reaction to remembering who made that comment – I knew I heard it on the radio but when you mentioned the trucker the memory snapped back.
    I thought the trucker’s comparing Trump to Bloomberg made sense – sure Trump doesn’t come close to passing Levin’s conservative test.
    But what was unsaid is that history shows Bloomberg did a good job as mayor, a much better job (IMO) than any of his Democrat challengers. Don’t toss out the good because it isn’t perfect.

    Take the wilderness analogy as you may, the thing I have trouble understanding is someone who acknowledges Trump is likely to be a better president than Hillary. better on Nat’l security, better on immigration and trade, better Supreme Court nominations etc. yet still refuses to vote for him because he’s not conservative or he insulted someone etc.
    Sure Trump has personality flaws, and the label “RINO” fits, but the only other choice is Hillary and her team of corrupt democrats.

    “The Crony’s & the usual-suspects on both sides, created Donald J. Trump”
    I think your missing the story of Trump’s rise (but as I think about it I’m perhaps gaining a better understanding of your opposition).
    Trump is not the creation of the crony RINO’s and other establishment. Most of them oppose him.
    Yes, now that he’s the nominee, many Republicans have backed him to stop Hillary, but there are significant RINOs out there supporting Hillary, notably the Wall St, big business crowd.
    (and in private I suspect even some backers would prefer Hillary)
    Hillary is likely to have a record sized war chest – that would not be the case had the nominee been Jeb or Rubio (but likely would have been for Cruz – the other candidate hated by the establishment).

    As I see it, the establishment opposition to Trump isn’t based on hate but on fear.
    Fear that they can’t control Trump and he just might end some of the corruption that is filling their bank accounts.
    To me that’s an argument for a Trump vote.

  • wayne

    Mitch–
    I was being restrained-snarky myself, but that’s unfair to you. (I do enjoy your take on the topics-of-the-day.)
    Again, I’d say, “agree with some of your particulars, but not the whole ball of wax.”

    I just don’t understand the whole Bloomberg ‘thang. Sounds like the Romney in Massachusetts syndrome, “he’s the best we could expect given the circumstances” type thing. Or Christie in NJ.
    ( I would put forth, if honest-to-god Conservatives were run by the RNC, even in liberal States, instead of whacky liberal “republicans,” (aka progressive rino’s) they would stand a good shot at winning.)

    Q: can you buy a 64 ounce slurpee in NYC? (not being facetious, are they legally sold)
    That’s the height of Nanny-Statism & just a preview of things to come.

    I’d put forth the proposition as well, Mitch/Ryan and the usual gang of suspects, LOVE Trump, they don’t fear him. The only unknown in their minds, is how “the deal” will go down if Trump wins.
    If they fear anyone, it’s the other RINO’s who are not presently in power, that are latching onto the Trump train.

    As I’ve said many times, I don’t hate Trump, but I could very easily. I’m totally resigned to the fact one of these clowns will be the President, Trump or Hillary.
    I’m also absolutely convinced, Mitch/Ryan/Priebus, do not lose, under any scenario.

  • Cotour

    Wayne:

    Bloomberg was in general a good Mayor in NYC, I generally supported him but given his success and then having too much time on his hands he naturally went where all “great” men must go, to running everyone else’s lives for them. After you get the garbage picked up and the water and sewer working properly and have negotiated with the unions, after all of that, whats left for a billionaire with some measure of power to do?

    That fear may be allayed regarding Trump seeing that the level of problems that the country faces today will give him no time to think in any other way other than Defcon 1. Its when everything is running smoothly that the problem pops up. At that point its time for a new president.

  • wayne

    Cotour–
    agree 100% with: “Its when everything is running smoothly that the problem pops up.” (Although that trend is not as prevalent as it once was.)

    Granted, I don’t live in a yuge urban environment, but maybe Bloomberg could have worked on getting rid of rent-control, triple the number of cab-medallion’s (it’s a government sponsored Cartel) (or better still, eliminate them all) privatize garbage collection, eliminate zoning, destroy public unions, advocate for free market solutions, actually RESIDE in NYC 24/7, etc. (it’s a principle type thing, rather than mandating the trains run on time.)

    I assume it was felt that Bloomberg was “the lessor of 2 evils,” even though he’s been a consistent left-wing billionaire all his life. (This is what I have a yuge problem with…)

    Just from the outside looking in, NYC reminds me of Tammany Hall gone totally mad.

    (Totally tangential– I’ve been reading up on that Moses guy, the person most directly responsible for major transportation projects, Parks, etc., throughout much on NYC’s modern history) [Robert Moses, urban planner]
    A true administrative-mastermind, just never actually elected.

    Anyway…. it would serve Trump well, to shut up about Cruz, and attack Hillary/Obama 24/7.
    The cute little derogatory names were slightly funny a year ago, now he needs to attack on a higher level, contrast & compare, and clearly set forth his “vision-thing,” broadly & specifically.
    (that being said, it’s all back-seat driving for me at this point. I don’t want either Hillary or Trump, but those ship’s have sailed.)

    I tend to think Trump could win on “law-n-order,” & nebulous “security issues,” but then again Obama was elected twice. Totally agree Hillary is a nightmare, but her sort of nightmare is apparently very popular with a large segment of ‘people.’

    It will be “interesting” going forward, but not in a good type of “interesting.”

    Can you actually buy a 64 ounce slurpee in NYC?
    and, how much do cigarettes cost? or a gallon of milk?

    Total tangent– where is Ozone Park? (I love that name.)

  • I don’t know if Rafael Cruz really is in that photo or not, but his response or rather NON-response is weird. If someone accused me of involvement in the greatest crime of the 20th-Century I would be going to every media outlet with a microphone saying:

    “That SOB! I never was friends with Oswald, never knew him, never even met him. I wasn’t even in Dallas at the time it happened. Let that SOB tell that lie to my face, but he better put up his dukes while doing it!”

    But instead of doing that Rafael says nothing. Instead, he lets his son Ted Cruz, who is very good lawyer, serve as his mouthpiece. Why?

    It’s not like Rafael has been just staying in the background, not being involved in the campaign. In fact Rafael had previously done an interview which is what led Trump to fire back at Rafael with the Oswald charge. Rafael in the interview said that God wanted people to vote for Ted Cruz and all the other candidates were wicked.
    But now someone makes the worst charge you can make against someone and now he says nothing. Why?

    Bob Clark

  • Cotour

    Wayne, NYC’s budget is in the $82 BILLION dollars per year range, that’s very big, NYC is big, a lot goes on here, this IS the center of the universe. Along with that comes a lot of Bureaucracy of the liberal kind because that is the nature of bureaucracy. That’s a very interesting fantasy list of things to be eliminated you have crafted there. I would love to witness the NYC City Council meeting when you propose them :)

    Just for some contrast, some fun facts: The entire state of NJ’s budget is a bout $30 Billion dollars, the state of CT’s budget is about $38 Billion and the state budget for the state of Penn is about $31 Billion. New York City’s budget is just shy of the combined budgets of the three states that surround it. What pays for it all you might ask? All of that dirty filthy capitalism that every Liberal / Leftist wants to get ride of.

    Bob Clark, interesting questions.

  • Edward

    Robert Zimmerman wrote: “no one sees anything wrong with wrongly attacking a man’s family with outright lies, merely for political gain. Trump did this, and no one calls him ‘petty’, ‘a little man’, ‘a small time player’, ‘small’, ‘a baby’, ‘strange’.

    “Instead, commenters here have attacked Cruz with these insulting terms, though all he did was to congratulate Trump for winning, outline why Hillary Clinton should not be president, and then asked everyone to ‘vote their conscience.’ To me, considering the vile things Trump said during the primaries about Cruz’s wife and father, this speech by Cruz is in fact incredibly honorable, principled, and decent, even if it might not have been as nuanced politically as it should have been. The only person who behavior really fits these terms is Trump, who compounded his brown-shirt tactics here by having his agents at the convention encourage the booing.”

    It looks to me as though Cruz is a gracious loser and Trump is a sore winner. Trump looks more and more like a liberal Democrat every day.

    Cotour, wrote: “no one cares about Cruz’s hurt feelings! No one.”

    Isn’t this Robert’s point?

    Nick P wrote: “I live in the real world. You should come join us.”

    I have noticed that liberal Democrats and recent liberal Democrats think that they are the only ones living in the real world. They continually argue that tyranny can only be fought with tyranny and by tyrants, however, in the real world, tyrants only bring more tyranny. In the real world, freedom can only be gained by freedom loving people bringing freedom to the others. Tyranny and Tyrants will not do this.

    Cotour,

    You wrote: “You must when you are involved in this dirtiest of games that humans play, this blood sport that is politics, you must do what must be done! ”

    But, of course, voting for a tyrant like Trump must *not* be done, yet that is exactly what you advocate we do, rather than what must be done: vote for liberty. A bully, like Trump, will make for a terrible president. If you look at our two best presidents, you will find that both lead through kindness and virtue. If you look at our worst president ever, you will find that he is a bullying tyrant, like Trump. You chose to reject Cruz, and you continue to do so in order to advocate for the tyrant.

    You wrote: “Player politics is no place for petty little men with hurt feelings.”

    Which means that it is no place for the thin-skinned Trump.

    Phill O wrote: “I have seen in Canada and in Alberta in particular, the end result of no compromise is the FAR LEFT wins to the detriment of the world.”

    We have also seen that the end result of compromise is the FAR LEFT wins to the detriment of the world.

    Phill O wrote: “Come on, a person’s word should be their bond.”

    Apparently not in as much agreement with Cotour, after all. Cotour emphasizes the dirtiness of politics, yet if a person’s word should be their bond, then they are not allowed to play as dirty as the Trumps and Clintons.

    Phill O wrote: “Does anyone else think Trump set Cruz up?”

    Everyone knows that Trump set up Cruz.

    Cruz done good, with his speech, but Trump does evil with everything he touches. He is much like Obama, that way.

    Phill O

    You wrote: “If Trump wins, then I must seriously consider seeking US citizenship.”

    You are mistaking Trump for a conservative.

    You wrote: “What bullies are really good at is putting people in place who can do the job.”

    Unfortunately, Trump’s job is to bully, not to make anyone but the bully great. Trump does not know how to make America great again, and if he did, it would be against his nature to do it. He is a liberal Democrat, not a conservative. He thinks that Canada’s healthcare system works. He wants to be able to punish anyone who uses freedom of speech in order to say anything against him. If those (and other negatives) are the job you think should be done, then go ahead and seek US citizenship, under Trump. But if you seek freedoms, Trump will destroy those.

    wayne wrote: “Either way, it’s completely divisive & coming from the Trump camp, not Cruz.”

    Very true. It is part of the thin-skinned, bullying nature of Trump.

    wayne wrote: “Yow… listening to Trump-attacks-Cruz clips, on the Levin show tonight; Trump will just not give up attacking Cruz.”

    As predicted, Trump is divisive, not Cruz.

    wayne wrote: “And no way Cruz grovels & scrapes on his knees, to the future King.”

    It seems like a lot of people are willing to kneel before Trump. Reminds me of this scene in “The Avengers” (Thanks for the tip, Robert):

    pzatchok wrote: “A president is not that influential over the long haul. He is just the center of attention for a few years.”

    Oh, how I wish that were true. LBJ still has blacks voting Democrat, even though Democrat policies have made them poorer and worse off every time they are applied. FDR’s socialism is thriving today, and even that Ponzi scheme, Social(ist) (In)Security, is so ingrained into our culture that to talk about changing it is considered a third-rail politician killer, despite its great and increasing cost to our youth. FDR’s legacy influenced creation of the bankrupt Medicare and the failing Obamacare.

    George Washington’s legacy, the two term limitation on the presidency, lasted one and a half centuries, until the self-indulgent FDR decided that he and his Democrat policies were too important to respect the American way.

    pzatchok wrote: “Trump gave Cruz all the rope Cruz wanted.”

    Trump set up Cruz, purposefully making him into a scapegoat for Trump’s failure to win the presidency. Trump will be sorely disappointed if he wins, as he will be stuck in a job that he does not want.

    Mitch S wrote: “Cruz wasn’t peeing on Trump, he was peeing on the millions of Republicans who nominated Trump.”

    Well, that peeing happened only be if those voting for Trump were not voting their conscience. Anyone voting for the lesser of two evils is voting for the wrong person; he is still voting for evil, not good, and evil is what he will get.

  • wayne

    Edward:

    Great stuff! (that deserves a hearty “well summarized.”)

    (I was really hoping you’d eventually weigh in on this thread!!)
    :)

  • Edward wrote: “It seems like a lot of people are willing to kneel before Trump. Reminds me of this scene in “The Avengers” (Thanks for the tip, Robert):”

    What scene from “The Avengers?” Were you trying to embed a youtube clip?

  • Cotour

    First: I will again point out that your tagging Trump as a “tyrant” (your favorite extreme, fear instilling word) is not accurate, you propose that he might be one if he is president but in fact he can not be defined as one because he has never been an empowered politician. By definition in the context of this conversation Trump is neither a King nor an empowered politician and hasn’t any power related to governance. You have to be one first to be classified as one. Trump the tyrant remains to be seen. I have my issues with him but being able to call him a tyrant is not applicable.

    Second: You and Wayne are stuck on that a candidate MUST be a “conservative” period. No successful politician has ever been as narrowly definable as you mean it as a “Conservative”. Success has come in the form of reasonable, common sense, practical Conservative principles as the guiding foundation and then some reasonable flexibility which you do not appear to have room for. As evidenced by Wayne’s list of things that he would ban in NYC, talk about tyrant.

    Cruz while more Conservative in presentation and deeds is defined by himself and the public in that narrow way that you like, and that combined with his persona is why he is not the candidate. Your narrow wish can never be fulfilled. If there was no Trump and Cruz was the candidate, even with all of Hillary’s horrid baggage, he still would not be able to win. Why? Because he is narrow just like your narrow inflexible specification.

  • wayne

    Mr. Z.
    — fyi, after you mentioned it, I tried to copy & paste youtube embed-code into a post & it just skipped it on the upload.
    Pasted directly, short HTML snippet, looked complete & self-contained, but that’s not my expertise, so I don’t know.

    It occurred to me possibly– you as the Adm can do that, maybe the commenters can’t?

    Can’t speak for Edward– but possibly he’s thinking this clip (?)–

    Insane speech from Loki
    https://youtu.be/dapip0EHYMI

    I’ll copy the embed-code here–

    does it display??

  • wayne

    Cotour–
    say what?
    -“As evidenced by Wayne’s list of things that he would ban in NYC, talk about tyrant.”

    I have said no such thing. Now you are just misstating facts. (and that does piss me off)

    NYC has rent-control, taxi-cab-control, gun-control, soda-pop control, etc., etc., ad infinitum. You people in NYC apparently love artificially high prices for housing, taxi’s, & anything else the government “provides” for you, and you accept it. You settle for it.

    As for the rest— “your words are unimportant & I do not hear you.”

  • The embed code that you pasted does not display. Below I have pasted it:

  • Cotour

    ” “your words are unimportant & I do not hear you.””

    Of course you cant hear me, you are to narrow to hear or to see anything other than what you wish. (and now your pissed off. At least you made me laugh)

  • Cotour

    “Granted, I don’t live in a yuge urban environment, but maybe Bloomberg could have worked on getting rid of rent-control, triple the number of cab-medallion’s (it’s a government sponsored Cartel) (or better still, eliminate them all) privatize garbage collection, eliminate zoning, destroy public unions, advocate for free market solutions, actually RESIDE in NYC 24/7, etc. (it’s a principle type thing, rather than mandating the trains run on time.)”

    You see when I read what you wrote, even though I would agree with some of your proposals to certain degrees, your commands to “eliminate them all” and “destroy” them, “get rid of” them, seems a bit stiff and narrow. The kind of Conservatism that you both propose is a loser. The principles are valid but its the tone of your commands for destruction that might classify you as a “TYRANT”. But neither are you empowered so it also does not apply in the context of the conversation.

    PS: NY is soo big its really hard to understand it, its an entity all its own.

  • wayne

    I’m a Tyrant!

    Absolutely, get rid off Rent Control. (Why wouldn’t you support that?)

    (I’d be remiss if I didn’t observe, Trump made his initial millions by flipping rent-controlled apartments and rehabbing them into Condo’s & Hotel Rooms, which aren’t rent-controlled. Socialism and shortages for the masses, Capitalism for the wannabe President.)

    Abolish taxi-cab Medallions. (Why wouldn’t you support that?)
    Destroy Public Unions. (Why not? Don’t like my verb?)
    Privatize Garbage, (Again, why not?)
    Privatize the trains/subways. (Again why not, they weren’t always socialized and cartelized.)
    Demolish Oligopolies. Smash monopolies. (Don’t like my verb?)
    Ferret out Crony’s, Punish Corruption.
    Etc., etc., etc.

    “It’s an entity all its own.” (yes, it is. One of the few cities run by an avowed Communist, and a Billionaire before him.)
    Is that your excuse? (I’ve been there, it’s certainly…. different. Just not in a good way…)

  • Mitch S.

    That clip is similar to the dream shared by many politicians (and others in power).
    Well, Bill Clinton would probably be asking Scarlett to be his intern…
    Frankly when Bill was first accused of the Lewinsky affair I doubted it’s veracity – I didn’t think he would be that foolish and out of control to get his jollies that way when surely he had women in Hollywood and other areas willing to help him and keep it quiet.
    But we can’t read their minds so we judge from what we see and what they do.

    Cotour, I understood Wayne to be knocking Bloomberg’s over-intrusive policies, not advocating for them.
    Though don’t blame Bloomie for rent control and ironically the taxi monopoly was ended by Uber – taxi medallions are worth less than half what they were a few years ago.
    (Might find this article interesting: http://nypost.com/2014/07/20/bloomberg-allies-pouring-money-into-lyft-and-uber/ ).

    Interesting that Bloomberg became a catalyst to understanding the difference between my outlook and
    that of some of the Never Trump/Cruz uber alles opinions here.
    NYC is a liberal-Dem town. Yet it’s voted in repub mayors many times (yes left-wing Repubs but still).
    Why?, because NYers have enough common sense to know the liberal-Dems will destroy the city.
    (And now they voted in DiBlasio to remind them!)
    So they vote in Rudy or Bloomie and then sit in Elaine’s and prattle on about what a fascistic racist the mayor is.
    They speak their “conscience” but vote for survival!

    Now just because I think Bloomie did a good job and am glad he was elected, does not mean I approve all his positions. I’ve said he still has his mother’s voice in his head “Michael those guns are so awful.” “Michael, what are you going to do about those fat people”. But I was willing to put up with the nonsense for the greater good.

    Seems to me some here see Trump’s less-conservative side (yes, on many issues he’s clearly a NYC style liberal Republican) and suddenly declare he must be a Trojan Horse candidate, the result of a conspiracy of the establishment to slip in one of their tools.
    I just don’t see that – he clearly freaks out the establishment, they see him as a much greater threat to them than Hillary.
    Why have political types like Prebus and Walker come on board? Simple- they see where the Republican voters are and as pols they have to be there. Also in some cases (Walker, Pence) they believe Trump with all his flaws will be better for the country than Hillary.
    But supporting Trump’s election in this cycle does not mean signing on to everything trump says or does.
    Nor does it mean trading in one’s personal principles for Trump’s
    It’s simply deciding which of the two candidates to hire for the job of President.

    Don’t get hung up on the person, think about the job you need them to do.
    (it’s why I waxed biblical earlier – the bible keeps emphasising that even the greatest of G-d’s messengers are still humans with flaws that make mistakes. Don’t worship the human, don’t equate all their deeds with G-d’s desire.)

    And a Trump election (or loss) does not have to mean the end of the conservative movement.
    I personally believe conservatives have a powerful message but for the most part they talk to each other rather than reaching out to touch the minds of more people.
    When someone like Trump says “i’ll get Hispanic votes, I’ll get Black votes” conservatives are often the first to scoff – “He’s a fool, they’ll never vote Republican”. Well that’s a self fulfilling prophecy.
    BTW I know Hispanic people, Black people, women, immigrants (especially fron ex-communist countries) who plan to vote Republican this year.

  • wayne

    Mitch– interesting comments.

    As they say in the Senate, “in the spirit of comity,” I will freely acknowledge to my friend Cotour, that presentation may be important, but only if I were trying to convince you. (And we are both just disagreeing on some key factors.)

    I’ll pivot to this for some comic-relief.
    “How Not To Talk about the Liberty Movement”
    Miss Libertarienne
    https://youtu.be/lfsCeSh5Zkc

  • ” NY is soo big its really hard to understand it, its an entity all its own”

    Well, I lived there 45 years, and as a filmmaker I traveled and worked in every single part of the city. I still know it like the back of my hand. And I can tell you that I understand it and and also recognize your silly “New York Values” thinking that actually twists the idea of giving people more freedom as a form of tyranny. This is one of the major reasons why I left.

    Or to put it as I remember Glenn Reynolds putting it once, “Oh those terrible libertarians, they want to leave us alone!”

  • Wayne,

    Just to correct you, rent control has pretty much been eliminated from New York for decades. Instead, they have something called rent stabilization, which works better but still sucks.

    Rent control froze the rent forever, meaning someone could have Sutton Place apartment for $50 a month, if they moved in after World War II and never left. The landlord was forbidden to raise the rent. In the end this led to the abandonment of gigantic square miles of real estate, because landlords couldn’t make a living running them.

    In the 1970s or so rent control was replaced with rent stabilization each time an apartment became empty. With stabilization, there is a state board that determines how much the rent can go up or down (mostly up) each year. They set a percentage, based on costs and inflation. As I say, this still sucks, but it at least put a stop to the abandonment of real estate.

    Getting rid of rent stabilization would free up the real estate market and probably lower rents in general. New Yorkers however fear that freedom and, as you now can see, picture such a change as the act of a tyrant.

  • wayne

    Mr. Z,
    Thank you, I stand enlightened on rent-stabilization in NYC. (Glad to hear the cost of “Medallions” has dropped as well.)

    I would shill for some Mises dot Org audio at this point:
    “Price Controls: Case Studies” featuring “rent-control” aka price-fixing.
    Joseph T. Salerno
    https://mises.org/library/4-price-controls-case-studies

  • wayne

    Mr. Z– btw– personally I’d love to read some stuff on your Adventures In Film — the day to day actuality & the process in particular. (There has to be a Book in there somewhere! or at least a series of essays.)

    Of course, I read all the Credits on films & look at the extra’s in background shots in old movies, and have strong opinion’s on Film V. Digital.
    -have a good friend who went to UCLA film school in the late 70’s & had a bunch older, old-school studio film Craftsmen as his instructors. He did a lot of regional Theater (writing) & worked on some artsy Biker documentary’s (camera guy). “Starving filmmaker” and all, he teaches film-history now— he has a film & memorabilia library that would blow your mind.

  • Cotour

    Whats more to say when Mitchs has said it so well and so reasonably?

    To the Zman, I do not appreciate being classified as “silly”. My detailed descriptions of NYC to Wayne was to illustrate the immensity of the place and the size of the dollars and the wealth, all of which contribute to the tendency of a large and unwieldy bureaucracy which as we all understand usually becomes more liberal than less. I do not know if Wayne is a person who lived his life on a farm or if he has lived in a Mayberry all of his life, in which case any imaginations about NYC would have no connection with reality, as you well know. NYC IS something that exists as unique on the planet.

    I assume that you will apply your standards to your own postings on “name calling” in order to keep the civil conversation going. Good for thee but not for me?

  • Cotour: Point well taken. I apologize. My wording was sloppy.

  • Cotour

    Apology accepted, thank you.

  • wayne

    Cotour–

    “I do not know if Wayne is a person who lived his life on a farm or if he has lived in a Mayberry all of his life, in which case any imaginations about NYC would have no connection with reality, as you well know.”

    Oh, come on… what am I— the unwashed masses who live in fly-over-country?

    “NYC IS something that exists as unique on the planet.”

    Really? How parochial of you.

    I guess I’m convinced now, Trump is God… “Please Mr. Trump, save me from my Mayberry existence.”

    “it’s all clear to me now, something wonderful is going to happen.”
    https://youtu.be/yM25-lz1Yms

  • Cotour

    This will happen.

    https://youtu.be/Kh_BT82kxp8

    Is Floyd still a cutin hair? I love Aunt Bee’s pies :)

  • Cotour: At the same time, your comments to Wayne, as follows::

    I do not know if Wayne is a person who lived his life on a farm or if he has lived in a Mayberry all of his life, in which case any imaginations about NYC would have no connection with reality, as you well know.

    were probably as sloppily written as mine were, and probably merit an apology as well.

  • Cotour

    I respectfully disagree. I really do not know where Wayne is from or what his life experience is. (I believe that he is from the Mid West?)

    Will you concur that NYC is bigger and more complex than any other city / metropolitan area and anyone who has not been immersed in it, payed taxes in it and survived in it really does not know it? As I pointed out earlier, NYC’s budget is almost as big as the three surrounding states budgets are. Its easy to say “eliminate” this and “destroy” that if you have no context related to what you are talking about. Which does not mean that those issues do not need adjustment or to be sunsetted.

    I really do not see what might be offensive about that sentence. Mayberry? If so, Mayberry is a common designation for the American small town experience. Living on a farm? Wayne, do you drive by corn or soybean fields or do you see cows on your way to work?

  • Cotour: Now you are being silly. Your comment to Wayne was snobbish. It implied that he was nothing more than a small town hick that can’t understand us big city slickers. In fact, it epitomized that famous Saul Steinberg New Yorker magazine cover that showed the general contempt New Yorkers hold for the rest of the country, a contempt you are now displaying for all to see.

    So what New York is big. So is the federal government. Are you implying that only big city New Yorkers can understand the problems of big federal governments, and need to take care of those poor country hicks who are just too stupid to understand the world’s real problems?

    You illustrate again those New York values that most Americans dislike, and are one of the reasons I left.

  • Edward

    Thanks for posting the clip, Robert and Wayne. Whatever I did failed miserably — and apparently did not work for wayne, either. (Some days just go better than others. Yesterday was not one of those days.)

    Cotour,
    You wrote: “First: I will again point out that your tagging Trump as a ‘tyrant’ (your favorite extreme, fear instilling word) is not accurate,”

    http://www.dictionary.com/browse/tyrant
    “1. a sovereign or other ruler who uses power oppressively or unjustly.
    “2. any person in a position of authority who exercises power oppressively or despotically.”

    So, you believe that shutting down opposition voices, despite the First Amendment, is just? You believe that those who govern should be allowed to reward cronies and punish enemies? You think that the “bully pulpit” means that it is OK to be a bully?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bully_pulpit

    Or are you feigning stupidity in order to ignore that Trump has announced that he will rule as a tyrant — although he used different words. Oh, he *is* a person in a position of authority in a few companies, so he can already be a tyrant.

    *Sigh* You really *are* blind to Trump’s negatives. For you, Trump can do no wrong, nor can he ever be wrong. This is why I do not think that I can change your closed mind on this topic.

    You wrote: “Second: You and Wayne are stuck on that a candidate MUST be a ‘conservative’ period.”

    Well, the guy I want to vote for. Duh. Once again, you feign stupidity. What do you think wayne and I have been saying, all these months?

    To be clear (can I get any clearer than I already have been?): I will not vote for or assist any tyrannical candidate, politician, businessman, or other person. We cannot regain our liberty by putting into office people who will rule as tyrants; all we can get from them is more tyranny.

    “Success has come in the form of reasonable, common sense, practical Conservative principles as the guiding foundation and then some reasonable flexibility which you do not appear to have room for.”

    I do not consider Social(ism) (In)Security, Medicare, or Obamacare to be successes. Every time it is the Republicans and conservatives who must be flexible but the liberals and Democrats need not be, thus we continue to move away from liberty and toward tyranny; how do you propose that we regain our liberty if we continue to allow the liberal Democrats to be inflexible? Plus, how do you propose that the tyrant Trump will “come in the form of reasonable, common sense, practical Conservative principles” but a conservative candidate will not?

    The Democrats were right, yesterday. Trump said that he will build a wall, and that is all that he promised (though he did not promise it). You decided that he is the right guy, ignoring all other liberal Democrat beliefs of his. You are a one-issue voter, chose your issue, and refuse to see anything else.

    “Your narrow wish can never be fulfilled.”

    Since you believe that we will never regain our liberty, which is my wish, narrow though it may be, then you have given up and will work your hardest to be one of the cronies who is favored, under Trump. At least one of us can have his narrow wish fulfilled.

    “‘“your words are unimportant & I do not hear you.”'”

    That is from Star Trek. It is supposed to be insulting in a politic way.

    “As evidenced by Wayne’s list of things that he would ban in NYC, talk about tyrant.”

    So, Cotour, for you rent-control, taxi medallions, crony unions, and non-free markets are what you consider to be liberty, rather than tyranny?

    Eliminating the tyrannies of rent-control and taxi medallions; allowing for private, free market companies rather than government sponsored monopolies, including the monopolies — and cronyism — of public unions seem to me more like liberty, where We the People choose what we are willing to pay for our goods and services, not what the government mandates. You now advocate that these are the new tyranny and government control the new liberty.

    Government control may seem like liberty to you but is the very tyranny that the Founding Fathers and the American Revolution intended to eliminate. We the People should choose for ourselves how live, not the government.

    Frankly, Cotour, you really need to review how you think that the US should be run.

  • Cotour

    You ascribe much too much to my attempt to be descriptive and accurate and at the same time light and humerus. Which makes me question just what your experience was in NYC to cause you to be so scarred and corrosive in many of you comments.

    “Are you implying that only big city New Yorkers can understand the problems of big federal governments, and need to take care of those poor country hicks who are just too stupid to understand the world’s real problems?”

    No, I am not implying that, but if he has no real context of what NYC is then my attempt to inform him was appropriate.

    I have some contempt, but its not for Wayne. I think its good that you moved.

  • wayne

    Cotour– now you are just being a complete elitist snob.

    I live in Western Michigan, in a very nice subdivision with a big yard. Lake Michigan is about 1,200 feet from my front door.

    Nearest dairy-cows are a good 30 minutes from me. We don’t have a lot of corn in my County, mainly fruit-trees & forest, those are about 30 minutes away as well. Currently I tele-commute for work although ironically I have to physically show up for meetings & to get my check, but no… I don’t drive past corn-fields, coming or going.

    I have lived in Chicago, Detroit, Louisville, and Tampa, and I have an advanced degree. My deceased wife grew up on a 400 acre farm, she had advanced degrees in Geology. My daughter (and son-in-law) both have PhD’s in Pharmaceutical Design. They live/work on the east-coast.

  • Garry

    Having worked a lot in New York, I know well the hubris that some New Yorkers exude, and it’s really annoying and uncalled for.

    It is one of the world’s largest cities and bureaucracies, but having lived in Tokyo, I can tell you that Tokyo is probably bigger. Tokyo not only fulfills DC’s role as the national capitol, but also New York’s role as the financial center, and Hollywood’s role as the center of film making and television. I would also put forth London, Beijing, and probably other Chinese cities on the same scale as New York.

    One of my favorite encounters in Tokyo was with a New Yorker, who spotted me giving him looks when he made some disparaging remarks about southerners. He asked if I was from the south, and I told him I had been stationed there, but grew up in Connecticut. I told him that as a resident of a place to the north of New York City, I agreed with his assessment that people down south were hopelessly stupid. He either didn’t or pretended not to catch what I was saying.

    Roasts aside, much like race, I evaluate people from states, cities, etc. on a person to person basis; it’s just that New Yorkers seem to have a greater number of people who arrogantly think that everybody else is hopelessly inexperienced and only they can handle things.

  • Garry

    I forgot my main point in the post above: in my mind, the biggest task to be achieved by the next (and subsequent) presidents is to eliminate bureaucracy, and this task is better directed by an outsider, backed by people with insider knowledge on how to work within the system when it can’t be eliminated. That means that someone whose paradigm is the New York bureaucracy should be assisting, rather than directing, the efforts to cut bureaucracy. After all, the Gordian knot is better cut down than untied; an insider would be prone to spending valuable effort trying to untie it when it should be cut down.

    Trump may very well be an outsider for this purpose; while he has had to contend with (and I’m sure has taken advantage of) the New York bureaucracy, it’s plausible that he’s built his companies lean and would like to do the same with government. On a side note, I think many overestimate the size of his companies; while they move a lot of money, many would be shocked by how few employees he has.

    Many would call me naive for wanting to do cut the bureaucracy, but if we don’t, what’s the alternative? And by bureaucracy I mean not only the government, but those who depend on the government, to include corporations, universities, defense contractors, and social aid recipients. It’s a job well beyond any individual, but it has to start somewhere, and president seems to be the logical choice.

  • wayne

    Garry–
    “Well stated.” Great contrast/compare, Tokyo & NYC. And a great story about encountering that NY’er in Tokyo. –my bet, he didn’t catch it.
    (You have excellent communication-skills & a refreshing viewpoint, causes me to pause & think.)

    Cotour–
    do you really think “fly-over Country” is nothing but corn-fields, cows, and hicks?
    –I bought a 96 ounce slushie this morning, just because I could & they are on sale, (99 cents) all month.

    Edward: “well stated.”
    Glad I could guess that Avenger’s clip! The embed-code thing, is not operator error, so don’t despair.
    Excellent job at spotting the Star Trek reference, that’s from “A Private Little War,” I believe. I watched all 3 original seasons over the weekend on DVD. “no commercials– priceless!”
    (I’m totally convinced Trump is Bella from “A Piece of the Action.”)
    I remarked in a different thread– you do a good job of stating & explaining your belief’s, despite the constant baiting of our associate in NYC. ( I empathize completely & would not hesitate to “put you in charge” of any number of things, and sleep soundly knowing you were on duty.)

  • Garry

    Wayne wrote, “(You have excellent communication-skills & a refreshing viewpoint, causes me to pause & think.)”

    Right back atchya; that describes you and several other posters here, which is why I read this site more thoroughly than any other.

  • wayne

    Garry–
    Thank you.
    I sometimes wonder how I present these days & I do tend to compose on the key-board, hence the dangling participles, spit-infinitives, and other grammatical boo-boo’s and tangential side tracks. (& huge portions of “communication” are just non-verbal & non-text.)

    (Interestingly, what I do for work now, is to read everyone else’s Reports & data-sheets, clean them up, attempt to “standardize” them to a degree, & ensure they specifically address a set of key things, countersign them & submit. I’m literally on the hook ‘license-wise’ for what 8 other people write, so I’m highly incentivized in that respect. Just not sure I still maintain my own “style,” anymore! (I’m an LPC, licensed professional counselor, although I jokingly call myself a licensed professional copy-editor these days.) On the upside, the content is all fascinating but without the hands-on stress factor. It’s akin to binge-watching Drama’s on Netflix, but the participants are all very real People.

    Here, I come for the Space & stay for the Politics, and it’s all good clean fun.

    -Yes, fully concur. Lots-o-interesting viewpoints here. ( & everyone keeps-a-grip for the most part.) I even include our associate Cotour in that, although he often plays the Kahn to my Kirk. (SMILE)
    (There’s a cybernetic dance between the Cat & the Ball of Yarn, or vice-versa, as the case may be.)

    You should absolutely check out Blair’s blog, https://bkivey.wordpress.com/ for some very well written & highly informative stuff. “It sings.” (That’s my obscure Green Beret movie reference & said with the highest admiration.)
    –He doesn’t post a lot, but what he does, is well worth the time to read.

  • Garry

    Interesting, Wayne, I currently have 3 jobs, the main one (for 20 years now!) being to clean up translations from Japanese. I specialize in patents and research papers, but I also get government reports, user manuals, and seemingly everything else under the sun.

    What I do is more than proofreading, but less than editing (as much as I want to sometimes, I can’t change content, or even rearrange it beyond the paragraph level). If you’ve ever bought something made in China and had a hard time deciphering the broken English in the user’s manual, you have a good idea of what I start with.

    Haven’t poked around Blair’s blog in a while; thanks for the reminder.

  • wayne

    Garry–

    That, is extremely, cool!

    I’m under a similar range of constraints, it’s more than just proof-reading, but I am allowed to change the content of anything, except the Dr.’s stuff, or rather, it goes back-n-forth to the source, until they can give me enough to construct a logical & complete narrative.
    Always enjoyed the hands-on, face-face client work, but I’ve done my time in the barrel.

  • Cotour

    Wayne, in what bizzaro universe are you Kirk?

    Kirk was a risk taker, a ladies man, a master negotiator https://youtu.be/G6o881n35GU, a visionary, an ego maniac, an adventurer of the universe, a cheater https://youtu.be/8N-H1lz3OJ4, a winner and “did not like to lose” https://youtu.be/b9dEI-Ru1CI, I hate to be the one to inform of this fact that it is not you that are The Kirk, its the person that you have come to despise (maybe because you WANT to be like him and realize that you are not?).

    Its Trump that is more like Kirk, much, much more than you :)

    Maybe viewing your own Star Trek analogy from a more accurate perspective will shake you from your high IQ notion that Trump is not worthy of your support.

    (I could be Kahn, I could be Kirk, maybe a bit like Trump, but you (and others here) are certainly not like Kirk. Maybe a solid support crew, maybe Zulu or Checkov? You are all too inflexible, too wed to your narrow political theology to be Kirk. Kirk would eat your lunch and have you pay for it every day :)

    Something to think about.

  • Cotour: I’ll tell you who you in the Star Trek universe you most remind me of: Kathryn Janeway. I leave it to you to figure that out. :)

  • Wayne

    Mr. Z;
    “well delivered.”

    Cotour– Science Fiction is, well… scientific-fiction. (They make it up, wholesale.)
    [I’ve never been to a Star Trek Convention, although I met Walter B. Gibson at the “Detroit Triple Fan Fair” in the late ’70’s. –aka Maxwell Grant, author of The Shadow.]

    All hail Hugo Gernsback!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Gernsback

  • Mitch S.

    Gary, I’ve visited Tokyo.
    One thing I’ve noticed about Tokyo and NYC is they are 24hr towns.
    Other cities I’ve been to shut down around 9:00pm.
    Some years ago I was hanging out with my cousin on the upper West Side of Manhattan.
    Lots of people on the street, women pushing strollers with kids, we stopped by a bakery and bought some cupcakes. Nothing unusual except it was 1:30AM!

    Wayne, so you live in MI. Guess I won’t offer to buy you new strings for your banjo!
    BTW I have a cousin who lives in Mississippi. She actually took up banjo playing.
    She’s a Bernie supporter- not many in her town but they exist.

    Cotour, i’m not clear why you emphasized the size of NYC. My guess is you wanted to say that there is a large, entrenched bureaucracy and it’s unfair to expect a mayor to correct everything (the ol’ half empty vs. half full).
    One thing to bear in mind about NYC is it’s diversity. While I earlier described the typical liberal elite type, I can also find people that would make Ted Cruz sound like George McGovern (Brooklyn Russian immigrants come to mind).
    But for me an enduring lesson (ought to be enduring but unfortunately people forget) is the mayoralty of Rudy Giuliani. If you took someone from the 1970’s or ’80’s and told him what NYC would be like in the 2000’s they would think you’re on an acid trip.
    Giuliani saved the city (I believe major employers, particularly financial firms were on the verge of leaving, which would have resulted in a death spiral) and transformed it.
    BTW even Rudy could not fix the taxi system or control the corrupt NYC board of education – had to wait for Bloomie to get that done. (I like to say the NYC Board of Ed is the only crime syndicate Giuliani couldn’t beat)

    So while generally even a good public executive is limited in what he or she can accomplish in a large gov’t system, the right person at the right time can do amazing things.
    With Giuliani (perhaps Churchill too) things were so clearly desperate, people were ready to let him do his thing.
    With Reagan, his basic decency and ability to communicate bypassed the entrenched interests.

    I’ll give Michelle Obama this: America is still great. But we are clearly on a path to disaster.
    Will leadership emerge that can understand and communicate the situation so people are willing to take on the changes needed to avert disaster? Or will we have to wait until the disaster is clearly unfolding.

    PS I see the resemblance of Trump to Bela, but to me Harry Mudd comes to mind!

  • Cotour

    OOOH, A mystery, I love a mystery.

    The fact that she made it through the academy to the level of captain and given a Star Ship to command is pertinent, and I take that as a compliment of the highest order, but I am sure is not your point. Alas I am not enough of a Star Trek geek to know the subtleties of your Janeway analogy, but I am sure that Wayne will :)

    And, I must assume that you agree with my Wayne / Kirk analogy. I knew Kirk, (I literally knew and worked for a captain Kirk when I was 17, he put the Capital C in the word Conservative. A fine man.) and Wayne, you are no captain Kirk.

    And don’t get me wrong, like I have said before, if I was an astronaut and was somewhere in space I want a building full of every kind of high IQ nerd that reads and posts here on Behind The Black in a building making sure that I get back home. The best of the best.

  • Garry

    I’m way over my head, having watched only a few of the original Star Trek episodes back in the 70s, none f the movies, and just a few snippets of episodes from the later series.

    But I just want to point out that Kirk was born (and raised?) in flyover country.

  • Wayne

    Mitch S;
    Interesting stuff!

    Nope, no banjo-strings for me. Now, the Upper Peninsula should probably break off and form the 51st State (or would that be the 58th under Obama?) but it’s largely State Forest & cell-coverage is lacking in vast area’s. (They do have the Michigan Technological University & a lovely town called “Christmas.” “Hell, Michigan,” however is located in southern portion.)

  • Cotour

    Does the place of the birth of a fictional character really indicate his leadership qualities?

    Which is not to say that there is something wrong with flyover country and that no one of consequence comes from there, many people of consequence have and will continue to.

  • Garry

    Omit “fictional” and you’re right on target!

  • Garry

    Mitch, you’re absolutely right about NYC and Tokyo being 24-hour cities. I lived in a pretty quiet neighborhood in the outer reaches of Tokyo, and even we had a supermarket that was open until midnight (which came in handy when my then pregnant wife had late-night cravings).

    I’ve had several foreign relatives / friends visit New York for a few days, and they all commented the same about the city never sleeping.

    You’re also right on target about New York’s true diversity (not just skin color). It’s a shame that there are certain types that go out of their way to be very visible and become many people’s idea of what all New Yorkers are like.

  • BSJ:

    If you are still following Ace, and comment there as well, you might consider referring them to BtB sometimes. I could always use the plug! (They might especially like my long essay today on Orion.)

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