It’s the hate, not the violence


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The last few days have probably been the ugliest I have ever seen in American culture. Not only was an attempt made to commit mass murder against a group of Republican elected officials, the response from too many mainstream Democrats has generally been tone deaf and even supportive of the violence. Worse, the violence appears to be on-going, with no sign of relief.

My list is hardly complete. The stories above are only a small sampling of the ugly stuff I have read since the shooting on June 14. The best I have seen from some Democrats is a hint that maybe they have let their rhetoric get out of hand, but even here they often backtrack to blame Republicans and only Republicans for the shooting.

Are Republicans innocent here? No. The coarseness of language and increasing anger I have seen from both sides in the past six months has been appalling. Rather than respond strongly but intelligently and with civility, too many Republicans have decided they can be as harsh and as coarse and as vicious as the Democrats.

Nonetheless, the bulk of the coarseness and viciousness and violence falls mainly to the Democratic and liberal side of the political spectrum. You need only scan this list of attacks against conservatives since in the past year, many of which I have noted here on Behind the Black. The left has been getting increasingly violent, with no protest by the left’s leaders in the Democratic Party. Even an attempted mass murder seems insufficient to cause much horror or shame in Democratic and leftwing circles.

The key to all this however is the single word I have highlighted in the fourth headline link above. That word is “hate.” What is motivating all of this violence and ugliness is hate, a blind irrational emotion that now prevents these people from looking at reality coolly. Trump is “evil.” He is a “nazi.” He is an “anti-Semite.” He is “racist.” He wants to “kill sick people.”

None of this is true. Trump is surely not the most ideal person to be our president at this moment of time, but he is also not any of the terrible things the left is accusing him of being.

Facts and rational thought however no longer matter to the left. They hate, and their hatred can now be used to justify almost any act, including an attempt at mass murder. This is beyond the pale, and it is turning the left into everything it has said it opposes for the past century: bigoted, hateful, violent, and oppressive. They had better cool their minds down a bit or else they will find themselves in the middle of hellstorm, targets themselves, with no way to control it.

One more thought. Right after the Tucson attack on Congresswoman Gabby Giffords in 2011, I noted the disgusting inflammatory language of the left. They demanded civility from conservatives, while simultaneous calling for their murder. I said then that they had better tone down their rhetoric or face a firestorm that they themselves might not survive.

This behavior must stop. Violent and angry rhetoric can and will cause violence. And it probably has, considering the fact that a large number of the random violent acts in recent years have actually been committed by deranged individuals with liberal, not conservative, leanings. This is not to say that I blame the left for this violence, but that the left has as much of a responsibility as the right to think carefully about what it says, before it says it. Otherwise, they might find that they have made their less rational followers more angry than they ever imagined, or can control.

Or as Michael York says to his Nazi friend at the end of this scene from the 1972 movie, Cabaret. “You still think you can control them?”

We are now six and a half years later, and instead of toning down their rhetoric, the left has escalated it to violence and murder. They have embraced their hate, and it is making them insane.

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49 comments

  • Cotour

    “They have embraced their hate, and it is making them insane.

    Oh, I entirely agree with that observation. The number of “F” words from Democrats frustrated with Trump, his style and agenda has gone up dramatically in my life. Its nasty but I understand it to be a positive indicator. Please president Trump, may I have some more?

    This is how we know that Trump is accomplishing something positive, to allow these misguided and now rabid Democrats who are now lead by full blood Leftists to continue their drive towards their politically correct and counter to American interests would be a sin.

    A Democrat customer the other day said to me “Its about time some Democrat started shooting with all the guns in the country with what Trump is doing” (I know he was being a bit dark and sarcastic in his humor, but I did not laugh)

    I pointed out that Republicans / Conservatives only have weapons to defend themselves, primarily from the government, which is the purpose of the Second Amendment, not to murder people who they don’t like. I also pointed out that the most violent people in America, in the world for that matter, are Leftists and Liberals. The conversation did not go much further.

  • Laurie

    Someone once said, “They hated me without a reason.” When Senator Obama won the presidency, I paraphrased this, “They loved him without a reason.”

    Maybe they loved him because they hated the same things.

  • Orion314

    Here in central florida, A Sherriff went on TV, telling law abiding citizens to arm themselves and make preparations , No specific threat, other than TSWHTF

  • Commodude

    Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. They have no coherent means to discuss their grievances in a logical, coherent fashion, as their “movement”, such as it is, is based off of emotion and not logic.

    When emotion fails, and they still haven’t won the day, they only have on resort left.

  • ken anthony

    The left’s hate is nothing new. Now there is almost no penalty for expressing it.

    The right will not just sit and take it.

  • LocalFluff

    “The last few days have probably been the ugliest I have ever seen in American culture.”
    Until the next few days. It’s not as if it will get better by itself. Just look at the violent history of socialism around the world.

    The US has the greatest military and police and legal system in the world. It should now be used to destroy the left with the same violent language they themselves speak. They would be so chocked to have it back at’em. This method has worked very well many times in many countries since centuries. Interrogate all suspect on the water board and expand Guantanamo a thousandfold. This is the last chance to save liberty. Where is fascism when you need it?

  • ken anthony

    An important element of the left’s open hatred is the right’s never-Trumpers gave them permission to express it so openly. They have little reason for restraint.

    So many on the right can share unlimited knowledge about trees and completely miss the forest.

  • wayne

    ken–
    Good stuff.

    Taking Stock of Trumpism:
    “Where It Came From, What It Has Accomplished, and Where It Is Going”
    Victor Davis Hanson at the Kirby Center, Hillsdale College.
    https://youtu.be/pzXJi9-1SUs
    (1:06:43)

  • wayne

    “Rules for Radicals”
    #13:
    – “Pick the target, freeze the target, personalize the target, and polarize the target.”

    ————————————

    Mark Levin:
    “The shooting of Republicans was predictable as leftists have become lawless and extreme.”
    6-15-17
    https://youtu.be/TUJRFsPY6c0
    (53:08)

  • LocalFluff

    ken anthony
    “An important element of the left’s open hatred is the right’s never-Trumpers gave them permission to express it so openly.”

    Yeah! That’s exactly the failure. I don’t really understand what you’re getting at. I’m the European here. But do we need to send troops overseas again to take care of unfinished business? If you boys can’t play nice, it might come up on the agenda again.

    Why don’t you simply kill the leftists in their homes at night? Do we have to spell out everything for you? You had Pinochet as an example on your pseudo-continent. You need to do your homework. And finally clean up a bit at home. I mean, really!

  • Cotour

    This is all a part of the attempted disassembling / razing of the fundamental America we all know and love. This is globalism, where America and its Constitution is only another form of governance (gutted) under the over arching rules of a U.N style governance model. Make no mistake about it, all of this purposefully pushed confusion and disruption that we have all heard being promoted by the politicians and the media of the last 30 years, culminating in the 180 degree counter intuitive speak and counter American interest actions of Barack Hussein Obama.

    This newly installed political “normal” that has been consumed by the public over that period of time is being threatened by the Trump administration. Even though the new “normal” is a ridiculous mishmash of the Constitution and its legitimate observations and counter balance to the abuse of power being replaced by an emotional pandering to the masses type of governance where just “feeling” like a woman or “feeling” like a man makes you that.

    This emotional bait and switch is designed by the Left thinking to disrupt and confuse the masses into believing that the legitimate observations that the Founders made and codified over 244 years ago regarding governance and the abuse of power was all some form of denial of rights and freedoms. Only to be replaced by this
    wonderful “new ” socialist, One World Government model of governance where America is just another cog in the machine and not the main driver and regulator of the machine.

    I say that the next election cycle in 2018 will once again reveal to the Left that they have been found out and the people of America are moving once again against their perverted socialist type of One World “Globalist” Governance model will not be fulfilled. (Then what will they be willing to do? Public executions of all who dare disagree with them?)

    Their narrative and their vitriol is too much for too long and the people of America have had enough of their deception.

  • LocalFluff wrote, “Why don’t you simply kill the leftists in their homes at night?”

    Ah, the Old World solution to all problems. Don’t like someone? Kill them. I seem to remember Germany trying this in the mid-twentieth century. How’d that work out for you? Then the Soviet Union attempted it, though with a little less vigor so that it involved a little less killing per year but a lot more oppression for a lot longer. How’d that work out, eh?

    While it would be entirely appropriate to arrest and punish appropriately any leftist who commits a violent act, to kill them wholesale simply because they are leftists would defeat the whole point of western civilization.

    But then, I am not sure many people today, including people like LocalFluff, really understand what western civilization stood for.

  • Cotour

    How will this rejection begin?

    http://www.mediaite.com/online/new-york-road-sign-defaced-from-crooked-hill-rd-to-crooked-hillary/

    Everyone knows either consciously or unconsciously that there has been created two sets of laws in America today. The first real indicator that we are once again on some reasonable road is when this legal perversion that has been crafted for Hillary Clinton and her associates is legally reconciled.

    THIS MUST TAKE PLACE.

  • pzatchok

    Its time to play Gandhi.

    Though this is the hardest way to defeat fascism, it is the most effective.

    Everyplace a conservative is likely to be protested is the place we need to be counter protesting looking for that beat down the left just wants to inflict. And we MUST take it quietly.
    We need to protest and passively disrupt things like the Trump play.

    The images can not be ignored for long.

  • LocalFluff

    The nazis did succeed in killing off the communists. That was the whole logic of their existence. People elected the next worst thing. Else they would all have been murdered by the socialists. And they did in the end save a third of Germany and about 80% of the population from socialism after the necessary wars were over. Much better than expected in the 1920s. For the time being. If you don’t amputate this limb, its infection will kill you. So let’s find the saw now, shouldn’t we. You can’t get all of what you want. If you don’t kill the leftists, they will kill you.

    You might not have had much socialism in the America yet, although its ugly murdering face is the same over there as it is over here. And just look at Venezuela and Cuba and on and on. Now it is happening to you. Make no mistake. Take care of the enemy while you can! Don’t let the scum hide behind the libertarianism they hate. It is you or them. Kill’em! Kill’em all! And kill’em good.

    The history of Western civilization is written in the blood of the defeated oppressors. Otherwise it wouldn’t be the history of the Western. It would be like the enslaved islamic southern parts of the former Roman Empire. Now this life-giving flood of the enemies’ blood has stopped, and civilization crumbles.

  • LocalFluff wrote, “Kill’em! Kill’em all! And kill’em good.”

    Your relish for mass murder is beginning to reach a point that I cannot tolerate on my website. Take care. I will not have my work tarnished by those advocating genocide. I have lost too many relatives on such beliefs.

  • Cotour

    Local is in a tough place, he has been witness to the genocide in Europe created by the same socialist thinking and propaganda as he is witnessing right here, right now going on in America.

    What does a man do as the train crashes into the station in slow motion before his eyes, just like he has witnessed before for the same reason? He warns of the real and present danger and he suggests going to the short circuit and most efficient solution. “Kill” it.

    Alas, things do not work like that, we must have the long term battle, the intellectual political war that will deliver the solution where most all can accept the results. What are the two variables that gives America an edge? The existence of the Constitution and the fact that for the most part the people of America and their vote still counts for something.

    We have been dragged pretty far down the road, time will tell the tale.

  • CapitalistRoader

    “Trump is surely not the most ideal person to be our president at this moment of time…”

    I’m not so sure. Certainly every president elected was a compromise and not ideal for most voters and although I wasn’t a Trump supporter in the primaries I’m perfectly happy with his performance to-date. Excellent judicial nominees, mass rolling back of federal regulations, and, most importantly, he’s making the smug, self-selected political elite go insane.

    What’s not to like? He’s a buffoon? Yeah, but so was Obama. And W. Bush. And Clinton. At least the current buffoon is in MY corner, which wasn’t the case with those previous presidents.

  • CapitalistRoader: My point in noting Trump’s imperfection is to remind people that it is possible to be objective about Trump, and also have reservations, without descending into mindless hate. I have been more pleased than disappointed with Trump, but have still definitely been strongly disappointed in a number of places, none of which has surprised me in the slightest. Search my website using Trump as a keyword and you will see.

    Having said that, however, I have the sense and brains to recognize that he isn’t the evil dictator that the left and the Democratic Party has mindlessly decided he is. And that is the real problem.

  • Cotour

    ““Trump is surely not the most ideal person to be our president at this moment of time…””

    I strongly disagree, Trump is the perfect man for the job at the right time, make no mistake about it.

    Call it manifest destiny or Karma or what ever you like, Trump is the man and he is a man that in time takes care of business. No one else I know of is equipped with the unique set of personal characteristics to do the insane job that needs to be done other than D.J. Trump.

    Trump will be like Churchill. Churchill served his country and the world brilliantly, he was the right man at the right time for the required job. Trump is exactly the same, he will accomplish what needs to be accomplished and then he will be cast aside just like Churchill. But his major accomplishments will be not so much in business but in the rescuing of the American dream and the Constitution. That is Trumps potential, with a little luck and good timing this is what will be manifested.

    As unlikely as that may seem to some.

  • Cotour

    Lets again talk about the right man for the right job.

    http://www.france24.com/en/20170617-macrons-party-course-landslide

    Macron’s party looks for a “Landslide” in coming elections. There will be sliding but it will just be towards oblivion IMO. Macron from what I can see is just an EU tool and a Merkle sycophant . France, as is the EU is doomed, this sickness that is political correctness and Socialist utopia where they continuously import the means of their destruction, Islam.

    France as well as England appear to be too far gone as far as Islam and their culture goes.

  • Cotour

    The insanity that we are currently experiencing :)

    https://youtu.be/Q-CJ-oHs4SU

    We all know what we will be experiencing if we do not confront it.

  • wayne

    Weather Underground Announces “Fall Offensive”
    CBS News
    10-6-1970
    https://youtu.be/TfdJ3FiSva4
    (10:00)

  • George Turner

    I would hold that Trump is ideally suited for the Presidency at this juncture for the same reasons he was elected. The DC cocktail circuit may despise him, and generals may spread rumors about him, and everyone may view him as an uncouth, inexperienced bull in a china shop, but like General Grant, who was derided as a drunken bumbling butcher, Trump fights.

    And he has correctly set the battlefield as a war between the normal, hard-working people and a rising liberal aristocracy that views them as deplorables and wants to crush them.

    That wasn’t long going to be tolerated, and the sooner the needed reform happens the less likely bloody revolt and civil war will be.

  • I find it sad that the discussion here has shifted from the hate exuding from the left, which desperately needs to be underlined and noted, to arguing over whether Trump is the right man or not for President.

    Trump is President. There is no real gain arguing over this. Noting however how the Democratic Party and its supporters have allowed their worst possible emotions take control of their actions to the detriment of the nation, and themselves, seems a much more important topic of conversation.

    The Democratic Party and its supporters today seem only interested in anger and hate. No one seems willing to say this. We need to, if only to get voters to recognize this and reject them.

  • Commodude

    The press coverage of these incidents is particularly horrid. I live in Rep. Tenney’s district, and the threats have been treated as jokes by local media. They all harangue about her lack of a town hall meeting, and ridicule the claims of threats.

    Living in the shadow of a major left wing center of agitation and listening to their “news” reports becomes particularly troubling. Ithaca, New York is locally described as 10 square miles of liberal utopia surrounded by reality. Lack of honest reporting just stirs the pot.

    As an example of the reporting, they had an illegal taken into custody by ICE, and within an hour there was an organized protest in the center of Ithaca. Never mind that the perp was wanted on felony assault charges as well as missing court dates, etc, but he was an oppressed, aggrieved minority, so we must support him. It’s just another reminder from experience that what gets reported and what actually happened are two entirely different things. They believe their own propaganda, to the detriment of all.

  • Cotour

    Sad?

    While pointing out the insanity of the * DEMOCRAT * party as of late is an essential part of this discussion, having the proper leadership in dealing with them is just as important.

    If not Trump than who? You do not fight a bit bull with a beagle. You have got to fight fire with fire and Trump is just as unreasonable and as manic and as focused as our opposition, so I take issue with you here.

    The conversation tracks to where it usually has to track to.

  • wayne

    Mark Levin;
    De Tocqueville’s “Democracy in America” and it’s relevancy to modern America.
    https://youtu.be/w0gd91vHlKI
    (13:17)

  • Edward

    Cotour wrote: “This is how we know that Trump is accomplishing something positive

    Actually, Trump is doing a lot that Democrats desire. Just because the left is so hate filled that they do not recognize it does not change this sad fact. The difference is that Democrats expected Hillary to be president.

    That is the actual frustration that Democrats have. It wouldn’t matter if it were someone other than Trump, they are disappointed that their favorite candidate missed out on being president, and they now regret putting Obama in rather than Hillary in 2008. Had it been Hillary, back then, they would have been able to use the same guilt campaign to get Obama in place last year.

    Democrats screwed up, and that is what they are angry about. Trump, Cruz, even McCain, it does not matter who beat out Hillary, they are pissed off and would be just as hateful for any other non-Hillary president. Look how poorly they treated both Sanders (who ran) and Biden (who wisely didn’t).

    All this hate is how we know that Hillary didn’t win the presidency, rather than how Trump is doing anything positive.

    LocalFluff wrote: “Why don’t you simply kill the leftists in their homes at night?

    How “Night of the Long Knives.” It isn’t very American, however. It is an attitude as hateful as that coming from the American left. They aren’t being very American, either, which is why so many Americans are complaining about this bad, anAmerican attitude.

    LocalFluff wrote: “The nazis did succeed in killing off the communists.

    Not really.

    LocalFluff wrote: “And they did in the end save a third of Germany and about 80% of the population from socialism

    Actually, the NAZIs were the socialists. They were the National Socialist German Workers’ Party.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Party

    Robert wrote: “I will not have my work tarnished by those advocating genocide. I have lost too many relatives on such beliefs.

    Please reconsider and follow your previous policy of allowing all opinions to be expressed, even those that you disagree with. Freedom of speech is important, and it includes disagreeable speech. Otherwise your site could become an echo chamber of the same ideas.

    Cotour asked: “If not Trump than who?

    I have explained this one on numerous occasions, but Cotour does not bother to listen and continues to ask the same question, as though it has meaning.

    Cotour wrote: “You do not fight a bit bull with a beagle.

    No. Instead of fighting him, calm him down and put him back into his stall in the barn. Killing off all the livestock destroys the farm or ranch, and only a terrible farmer or rancher (a tyrant) would do so.

  • Cotour

    “No. Instead of fighting him, calm him down and put him back into his stall in the barn. ”

    This pit bull is loose, there is no calming it down its having a fit, it is out of control and is not able to be put back in its stall, it has no stall. (bad analogy)

    And Trumps first positive monumental accomplishment?

    Defeating Hillary, and he was the only one that could accomplish that essential thing. What accomplishments come after that monumental accomplishment remains to be seen, its a work in progress.

  • Cotour

    The medicine the country needs, both leaderships must start pulling the string:

    http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/338237-senate-gop-turns-focus-on-lynch

    When this issue of the two sets of laws that now exist in America is attended to that is when the healing or reconciliation can begin. It must be fair and based on evidence we mostly already know, but it must be flushed from our system. This is the point where some level of agreement can be had and we can then move into the future.

    If this string is picked up and then just dropped and not followed to its reasonable conclusion we are truly lost. The indictment of Hillary and her associates and Loretta Lynch and the complicit actions of James Comey to accommodate them all (and he did accommodate them) in their manipulation of the system must be taken care of by leaders in both party’s.

    Comeys actions should have been as follows if he wanted go down in history as a stand up American: I resign!

    Comey attempting to massage his way through Hillary’s offences and Lynches surrendering of her fiduciary responsibilities as Attorney General turned him into a politician. He was the FBI director, he was the Attorney General and he was the president, all of whom are culpable in this further perversion of our system.

    This must be reconciled.

  • Keith

    The first item on your list, “Hunt Republicans”, is a little concerning to me since I live in Union County NJ, where this foolish Democrat is from.

  • Garry

    Cotour wrote,

    “When this issue of the two sets of laws that now exist in America is attended to that is when the healing or reconciliation can begin.”

    I agree, but the liberals will counter by saying that laws and law enforcement are stacked against blacks, and they’re not entirely wrong. Some will commit the classic error of saying that unfavorable treatment of the other side is the fairest thing that can be done.

    The classic example liberals will cite is the contrast in mandatory sentencing and the sentencing guidelines for possession of cocaine (indulged in by many white professionals) vs. possession of crack cocaine (indulged in by many blacks).

    Eisenhower warned us against the military-industrial complex, and unfortunately we also have a legal-prison complex (and a government-education complex). Our prisons and what happens to people upon release tend to drive criminals towards more crime rather than rehabilitation, and over time this has contributed to a destructive subculture among the poor.

    Partially as a result of a variety of programs and actions over the years (some well-intentioned, some disguised as well-intentioned, some just making the playing field uneven), many poor minorities seem to think that

    (1) they will face bias in every situation they’ll find themselves in
    (2) they have to be tough and nasty, and resist the system (education, police, etc.) to avoid being taken advantage of
    (3) people only get ahead because they are members of favored groups
    (4) the only chance they have is to cheat the system, or to get lucky, or to become the next star athlete or musician

    I’ve been part of some educational programs to boost poor minorities, and for the most part the people running them perpetuate the myths, intentionally or not. In many cases, the myths become self-fulfilling prophesies. However, there are grains of truth to the myths.

    I say we do things to fix both situations: apply the law equally to Loretta Lynch and Trump, and at the same time work to prove the myths wrong.

    How do we do this? I don’t know, but I’ve found that many people gain a new perspective when they see how different people actually live and the challenges they face.

    Seeing that today is father’s day, I feel especially obligated to say that having a father at home is the best predictor of future success, and we should do our best to stop making government the surrogate father and find ways to get fathers more involved.

    On a tangent, I would like to recommend a book my daughter bought me for my birthday: “The Short and Tragic Life of Robert Peace.” I liked it a lot at first read; it’s a true story about a poor black kid who grew up in Newark (with his father in prison), applied himself as a scholar and athlete, and eventually got a free ride to Yale, from which he graduated, but while there he secretly ran a drug dealing operation from his old neighborhood and was eventually murdered because of it.

    I like the book, because it doesn’t advocate any particular point of view or social action. I’m amazed at the author’s ability to get literally hundreds of people from all walks to life to open themselves up to tell their parts in the story and what they observed (the author needs to learn better crafting of sentences, but that’s merely an annoyance). He tells the stories of many people in great detail; some escaped the horrible situations they grew up in, others, like Robert Peace, never escaped despite having great opportunities.

    My takeaway is that one has choices that can potentially determine one’s life, but there are no guarantees, and some people have (or believe that they have) very limited choices because of how they grow up. It’s not up to the government or society as a whole to fix all of the factors that go into this, but we should be aware of them and should stop enabling many of them.

    From the book I was able to get new perspectives on race, crime, poverty, drugs, and just about every other social issue of our time. In some cases I already knew the perspectives, but didn’t realize how many people apparently hold them, or why.

    I’m going to have to read it again; there’s so much in it that a second read will bring more insights.

  • Cotour

    Gary:

    I specifically mean the two sets of laws that were created by James Comey when after he laid out for 13 minutes the offences committed by Hillary Clinton and her associates he head scratchingly came to the conclusion that she had not “intent” so therefore he could not recommend indicting her. These are the two sets of laws that must be reconciled.

    The other perceived or actual inequities in the law that you cite are a whole nother subject.

  • Edward

    Cotour,
    You wrote: “This pit bull is loose, there is no calming it down its having a fit, it is out of control and is not able to be put back in its stall, it has no stall. (bad analogy)

    I prefer my analogy, because your analogy is to fight hatred and violence with hatred and violence rather than defuse the situation with reason and sanity.

    It would be too bad if the shooting of a few Republican legislators results in the shootings of a whole lot of legislators, politicians, and members or advocates of all parties.

    You wrote: “Defeating Hillary, and he was the only one that could accomplish that essential thing.

    You keep trying to tell us this incredible (unbelievable) lie, as though you think that if you repeat it enough we will eventually believe it. We were there; we know the truth.

    Trump was a terrible choice for presidential candidate. The only reason he was able to win was because he ran against Clinton. Anyone could have beat Clinton. My long-dead cat could have beaten her, because there were so many Democrats who crossed party lines to vote against Clinton that anyone could have beat Clinton. Even Sanders could only be defeated by rigging the Democratic primary.

    Accept it: Trump sucks. It is just that we are stuck with him for the next three and a half miserable, progressive, life-long liberal Democrat years.

    You wrote: “If this string is picked up and then just dropped and not followed to its reasonable conclusion we are truly lost. The indictment of Hillary and her associates and Loretta Lynch and the complicit actions of James Comey to accommodate them all (and he did accommodate them) in their manipulation of the system must be taken care of by leaders in both party’s.

    That Trump has dropped this issue is one of the many reasons why he is a terrible choice for president. You, Cotour, continue to defend Trump, even though Trump will let these crimes go unpunished. Justice is denied. The string has been dropped, and we are truly lost, according to you.

  • Garry

    Wayne, thanks for linking to that Victor Davis Hanson video; he did the best job I’ve seen so far of putting Trump in perspective.

  • Cotour

    “You keep trying to tell us this incredible (unbelievable) lie, ”

    Dis prove it.

    Reality indicates the opposite of your conclusion. Your insisting that anyone could have beaten Hillary is ridiculous, the only one who could have beat her has beat her and from that perspective he has already served his purpose for our collective purposes. Non of the other republican candidates would have beaten Hillary, none of them. The Democrats that crossed the line did so because of Trumps unique and audacious style and ability to reach them. Do not fool yourself.

    “Trump sucks”

    Trumps disruption of Washington in what ever form it takes is well worth the ride IMP. If he does nothing else his beating Hillary is more than enough for me. And as far as going after Hillary, I think that if she attempts to continue her drive to once again run for president in 2020 the democrats will be inspired to take her out with an indictment. As it is right now some of the democrat leadership, like Diane Feinstein is talking about it just based on Comey’s testimony alone. Its coming, give it time.

    And I have never suggested to fight hate with hate, never (I expect an apology for you suggesting it). When you fight fire with fire (political fire) you must have a strong no holds barred leadership that is not worried about being politically correct or afraid to take unpopular steps as in undoing Obama’s offences to our country. And Trump has demonstrated that he is more than willing to do just that.

    I have never promoted hate of any kind or violence, just strength, commitment and the stones to get things accomplished.

    (PS: Its a crappy analogy)

  • pzatchok

    I for one will not spill the blood of my brothers over a political view point.

    We still have several other options.

    Besides, beating someone in combat only teaches them you know war better.
    But defeating them like Gandhi did, passive aggressively, teaches them their philosophy is wrong.

  • Cotour

    Our Liberal / Leftist opponents will not upon seeing their folly in the streets bend.

    We need to intellectually beat them until they realize that they must bend. The Hillary indictment would be a point that not many could argue against with a straight face. Find common ground and work it from their.

    Ghandi is another not so good analogy.

  • wayne

    Garry–
    Glad you took a look.

    This one is highly informative as well:

    “War and Democracy in Ancient and Contemporary Middle East”
    Victor Davis Hanson
    UC Santa Cruz’s Jewish Studies Lecture
    (August 2004)
    https://youtu.be/ZiXXn-8hZjQ
    (1:16:40)

  • Cotour

    Ah, the end of the string dangles for all to see.

    http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/judge-napolitano-comey-testimony-laid-out-a-case-for-misconduct-against-loretta-lynch/

    Now let a Democrat leader dare to grab it and begin to pull.

    Could this Senator be our universal American hero that dares to grab the string and begin pulling it to once again bring our system back to some semblance or equality and order?

    ““I think we need to know more about that,” said Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California) on a June 11th episode of CNN’s State of the Union. “And there’s only one way to know about it, and that’s to have the Judiciary Committee take a look at that.””

    Reach up to your destiny Diane Feinstein and pull.

  • Edward

    Cotour,
    You wrote: “Dis prove it.

    I did, and even better than you did in proving it. You merely state your point, as though it must be true by virtue of you having stated is, but I gave examples. Indeed, you merely and continually repeat your point without evidence, as though it were an axiom. It is not. Repeating your point over and over again and again does not make it any more true than the first time that you were wrong.

    Trumps disruption of Washington in what ever form it takes is well worth the ride IMP.

    But that is the opinion of few others. Most of us realize that what you think is disruption contains very little change. Thus, for you, any of the other, better, candidates should have been good enough for you. They were willing and capable of better change and better leadership.

    If he does nothing else his beating Hillary is more than enough for me.

    Too bad your poor choice in candidate has left us with him for the next three and a half miserable, progressive, life-long liberal Democrat years. Outside of not being Hillary, there is not as much difference between Clinton and Trump as you think. Despite his claims to the contrary, he has made very few actual changes, even changes that would make America great again. People are figuring out this sad fact, and they are not reacting to Trump the way they did a few months ago, back when Trump had so much promise. The economy is starting to react poorly, too. The reality of Trump is not as good as the promise of Trump. Any of the other Republicans would have been better — including Jeb Bush (I shudder at the thought!); at least he is not a lifelong liberal Democrat.

    Trump has still dropped the string, which you said leaves us truly lost.

    And I have never suggested to fight hate with hate

    Then what did you mean by that terrible analogy that you insist is the preferred one? Fighting fire with fire. The topic is hatred and violence, so you must have been advocating fighting hatred and violence with hatred and violence.

    The only other topic that you could have been referencing would be finding it sad that “the discussion here has shifted from the hate exuding from the left” but that makes no sense. Shifting from the hate exuding from the left by shifting from the hate exuding from the left? No. It makes no sense.

    We need to intellectually beat them until they realize that they must bend.

    We already have intellectually beaten them. They did not bend. They respond to emotion, not logic or facts. Logic and facts only get in the way of their emotions. Why do you think that they have resorted to hatred and violence? Why do you think that they embrace their hypocrisy? Because their facts and logic have been so entirely disproved that they have nothing left to argue. They have gone from “join us or be shunned” (hate) to “join us or die” (a typical tyrannical position of violence), hoping that fear will overwhelm our intellects.

    This is why there is so much hate exuding from the left. They have nothing but hatred remaining to them, thus that is what they exude. It rouses the leftist rabble, and it always has. Class warfare is turning to actual warfare, complete with gunfire and Democrats advocating for the hunting of Republicans.

  • Cotour

    “I did, and even better than you did in proving it.”

    Who is the president? (This is a very weak position you have taken. This is much like the “wine” discussion we have had, its not going to go well for you.)

    “Then what did you mean by that terrible analogy that you insist is the preferred one? Fighting fire with fire. The topic is hatred and violence, so you must have been advocating fighting hatred and violence with hatred and violence.”

    This is far, far below you and it may be the lamest thing you have ever written. I do not promote violence nor do I promote hatred. In all of the reams of pages that I have written here you will not find anything to support your position.

    I expect an apology from you.

  • pzatchok

    The left is at the point that they can see their ideas and view points are wrong. The evidence is overwhelming.

    But they have not accepted that evidence yet and instead have devolved into anger and hatred. Anger from almost all of them, hatred from a huge portion, and this actually fuels and, in their minds, justifies the violence from the minority or them.

    We can only prove to them that no amount of violence with change the facts.
    And the only way to prove to them that we are not the violent ones is to not physically fightback. To not answer violence with violence.

    Passively interrupt their gatherings and actively boycott their corporate supporters.

  • Garry

    One of the frustrating aspects of dealing with the left is their constant redefinition of terms. I agree with you, pzatchok, that we should not answer with violence. However, many on the left will continue to redefine anything we do as violence, including our words, our proposals on dealing with illegal immigration, etc.

    Hopefully the right will remain non-violent, and enough on the left (and in the middle) will see things for what they are.

  • Steve Earle

    As long as they have the Mainstream Media on their side they can portray history and current events anyway they like if it suits the agenda.

    Remember the coverage of the Tea-Party protests versus the Coverage of the Occupiers? Even when photos and police reports proved it was the Occupiers who were the violent ones, and the ones who trashed every venue, the media still pushed the opposite story, and many of their viewers/readers still believe that Fake News….

    It’s the same with the BLM and Antifa idiots. They can do no wrong as far as the MSM is concerned, but let one counter-protester say or do the wrong thing and it’s all over the network news that night.

    The Leftists knew what they were doing: control the schools, especially the Journalism Schools, and you will shortly control the culture and ultimately the country.

  • Edward

    Cotour,
    You asked: “Who is the president?”

    That does not show that he is the only one who could have beaten Hillary. You are unable to support your ludicrous position.

    This is far, far below you and it may be the lamest thing you have ever written.

    Actually, the reverse may be true, because your original statement makes no sense in any context in this thread. That was my point. That is why I questioned your statement in the first place. That is why I suggested the alternate, more peaceful analogy.

    “I expect an apology from you.”

    I am sorry that you are such a poor debater. Since you say that it is far below me to debate you, then perhaps I should stop. Just remember that you are wrong about Trump. We all know, because you cannot defend your position on him. Instead, you resort to saying that I am lame and that you expect me to apologize for your poor arguments. I also apologize for hurting your feelings by pointing out your poor debating skills. Finally, I apologize that I cannot offer you a safe space.

    Garry wrote: “many on the left will continue to redefine anything we do as violence, including our words, our proposals on dealing with illegal immigration, etc.

    Indeed, the left has defined whites as being genetically racists. How racist and hateful is that? Apparently it justifies death for whites, because such hateful statements and feeling makes it become easy to declare whites both inhuman and a$$4073s (I hadn’t realized that either one or the combination of these were capital offenses, but I guess they are, in hate-land):
    http://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/trinity-college-professor-calls-for-death-of-whites/

  • Cotour

    I have in general fairly strong arguments as a general rule, and I defend them as need be to a fair degree of success. Your counter argument is as I pointed out LAME. I stand solidly behind that characterization. I do not need an apology from you because of my need for a “safe space”. I need an apology from you because you stated that I was a promoter of violence and hate, I am neither of those things and there is nothing that you could find to substantiate that, anywhere. Another weak and accusatory position that you have taken (because of your lame argument and your additional weak argument).

    You choose to properly do (or not do) what ever you think appropriate, as you wish.

  • Edward

    Cotour,
    You wrote: “I have in general fairly strong arguments as a general rule, and I defend them as need be to a fair degree of success. Your counter argument is as I pointed out LAME.

    So you think. You have yet to defend why you think that no one else could have beaten such a poor candidate as Clinton — so poor that Democrats were crossing party lines by the millions in order to vote against her. She was such a poor candidate that she made Mondale look like a good candidate. But maybe you consider it axiomatic after all, thus it needs no defense; you believe it to be true merely because you said it, and you think we should think so, too, merely because you said it.

    I suspect that the reason that you wanted my counter argument to be lame is because you cannot defend your position against it. Thus, you reverted to the Democrat tactic of using insults in place of reason.

    “I need an apology from you because you stated that I was a promoter of violence and hate”

    Well, that is how your statement sounded. Once again, you do not argue well.

    I am neither of those things

    I didn’t think so. This — again — is why I proposed the better, non-hateful and non-violent analogy. Which you rejected, leaving us with your doubling down on the “hateful and violent” analogy.

    there is nothing that you could find to substantiate that, anywhere.

    Except for your analogy of — while the topic was hate and violence from the left — fighting fire with fire. That was something that I found without having to go looking.

    You choose to properly do (or not do) what ever you think appropriate, as you wish.

    I did, but you, Cotour, complained about it. You called it lame and demanded an apology. Somebody’s feelings were hurt, but they weren’t mine.

    You have yet to clarify what it was that you meant. If the “fire” to be fought with “fire” is not “hate and violence,” then what is it? What do you think needs to be fought? This cannot be such a difficult question to answer, because you must have had something in mind. If you are not promoting hate and violence, then what is it that you are promoting?

    Final apology: I am sorry that you do not know what you mean, when you argue. It makes discussing things with you very difficult.

    Now if you will excuse me for the evening, I will go off and not drink wine, because I am not the one who needs it. No safe space is needed on my end.

    (But a clarification from you, Cotour, would be appreciated.)

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