Movies when our culture was not run by barbarians
Today’s essay will in a sense be part two of an essay I wrote earlier this week, entitled “We are becoming a nation of barbarians”. Then, I tried to show the decay in the western civilization by describing the accepted — almost encouraged — crudeness of modern language. While public cursing could easily be consider only a small and trivial issue, I think the increased use of obscene language in normal discourse is equivalent to the “broken windows theory” of psychology, which posits that minor visible signs of disorder and misbehavior encourage further and worse disorder and misbehavior, eventually leading to collapse.
Today I’d like to instead give some examples of the much more civilized nature of popular entertainment from only a half century ago, in order to contrast this with the present. To do this I will cite just four movie examples, and challenge everyone today who is a passionate fan of modern films to watch them (all of which are available for free on the internet) and recognize the differences that I will describe. If you like movies, you will enjoy the experience, but I warn you, modern popular entertainment films do not compare well with these mid-twentieth century pop movies.
Click to watch the movie.
I begin with one of the finest science fiction films ever made, Forbidden Planet (1956), about an interstellar space ship making a routine check on a research party that had been sent to the fourth planet in the Altair star system.
The movie’s basic premise, of a interstellar patrol ship, was so good that Gene Roddenberry essentially stole it when he created Star Trek. Forbidden Planet has a captain, a doctor, a crew in uniforms, an interstellar spaceship, and a mission to travel from star system to star system, sometimes checking on established outlying colonies, sometimes going where no one has ever gone before. Does this not describe Captain Kirk and the starship Enterprise?
The creators of Forbidden Planet did their own stealing, in that they based their story almost entirely on Shakespeare’s play, The Tempest, with a scientist living on an isolated planet with only his daughter, who until the arrival of the ship from Earth has never seen any other men before. That arrival changes everything, in the play as well as the movie. As Shakespeare has Miranda say with innocence but true joy:
O, wonder!
How many goodly creatures are there here!
How beauteous mankind is! O brave new world,
That has such people in ‘t!
The film has great special effects, original concepts, but most of all, it has a thoughtful script that shows us intelligent and mature adults struggling to deal with an alien technology without killing themselves.
Click to watch the movie.
Next we have the British film, The Dam Busters (1955). It tells with reasonable accuracy the effort by the British during World War II to devise a way to blow up the dams of the Ruhr valley in Germany.
Unlike modern films, this story about solving a difficult engineering problem does not make believe the engineering is easy. You don’t have Data suddenly coming up with some gobbly-gook about “producing electronic waves that will disrupt the enemy’s power systems by powering up the flux capacitor to 125%,” and Captain Picard waving his arm and saying “Make is so!” Instead, we watch as the characters in The Dam Busters overcome a serious of thorny and seemingly unsolvable problems, one by one, by using their brains, their creativity, and — most important of all — a determination to not give up.
Along the way we are taken on a suspenseful, tightly written and edited story, that wastes no words or actions. Those who are fans of Star Wars will recognize at the end of this movie how it inspired George Lucas.
Click to watch the movie.
The third film to enjoy is another British film from the 1950s, A Night To Remember (1958), based very accurately on Walter Lord’s brilliant history of the sinking of the Titanic.
Unlike James Cameron’s overwrought 1997 film Titanic, the British film does not create fake drama (such as a character handcuffed to a desk during the sinking). Instead, it focuses on the actual, well-documented actions of the many people on the ship. Some were cowards, some behaved with incredible courage, some were thoughtful, others were panicked. All however are portrayed with depth and care, not as the cardboard shallow characters that are now routinely seen in 21st century films.
The result is a nail-biting drama that shows us the best that humans are capable of, as well as the worst. The irony is that it is the most civilized aspects of western civilization that are revealed most clearly in this terrible failure of ship design.
Click to watch the movie.
Finally I give you a film that is entirely obscure and also not created for adults but for children, by the company that Walt Disney created and controlled until his death in 1966. The film is Way Down Cellar (1968), and is likely one of the last Disney approved for production before he died.
This is a film you should watch with your kids, because it is not only wholesome and endearing, it portrays the lives of children more accurately than almost every other kid’s films I’ve seen for decades. And it does so from the point of view of children, describing their world as it really is, innocent, enthusiastic, emotional, and daring. Things like interpersonal rivalry, winning football games, and doing the right thing are front and center, and are described in an compelling and realistic manner without the false embellishments of fantasy. No magic wands here. Instead, the boys have to figure out how to stop the criminals by using the available tools, while dealing with the resentments caused by the arrival of a new kid on the block.
Parents will be entranced, because of that reality. They will see their own kids reflected in the children in this movie, which in turn will help parents understand how best to raise them.
What’s most amazing is that this was the kind of film Disney produced routinely in the 1950s and 1960s. It is why his company earned such a wonderful reputation with parents and children, now squandered by the radical queers and Marxists who now control the creative process there.
In every single one of these four films, the scripts describe human beings acting with intelligence and care. Each shows us people who are not only smart, but work hard to use their brains, not their emotions, to figure out the best most rational choices to make. Unlike many modern films, which generally have no coherent plot (as Ryan George repeatedly demonstrates in his short “Pitch Meeting” videos), these movies demand that the action follows naturally and realistically. “A” causes “B” which results in either “C” or “D”, depending on what the characters choose. There are no handy chariots of the gods to descend down to help them. They must make it work themselves.
Nor do these humans have super powers that allow them to instant leap tall buildings in a single bound. They must harness their natural abilities, as they understand them, and then proceed as best as they can.
And above all, they are civilized, in the truest sense of that word. Solutions aren’t found routinely in violence, for violence’s sake. If another option can be chosen, they choose it. And if they don’t, the consequences are generally bad, which in truth describes real life quite accurately. If you make emotion your methodology, rather than dispassionate objective thought, you will almost certainly fail in the end. Or if your thoughtlessness doesn’t hurt you, its consequences will certainly hurt others down the road.
What is most amazing is that all these films are remarkably entertaining. In fact, they were all made for general consumption, for ordinary audiences. Nor are they unusual for Hollywood prior to 1970. While the movie business has always produced dumb and bad films, these four films provide a great sampling of the average movie in the first half of the twentieth century. Overall, that record is quite impressive.
If only more films were made the same today. If only our entire culture and artistic community could return to these high standards.
One final note: I suspect many movie-goers today might find these films difficult to watch, simply because the rely more on dialogue and story than quick-paced editing and action. This fact alone illustrates another aspect of the decline of our culture.
One second final note: I saw the first three films as a kid younger than ten, and enjoyed them all, then. It seems parents (and their kids) today might benefit if today’s children were offered the same experience.
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I’ll add “No Highway in the Sky”. 1951 movie with Jimmy Stewart and Marlene Dietrich. Also “The Enemy Below” (Kurt Jurgens and Robert Mitchum.)
Good topic. I am rarely interested in movies from this century. The film 1917 is good. A unique feature of that movie is it is done in ONE take, or made to look that way. On the whole, however, mid 20th century movies are always better. They can be that way without swearing and sexual explicitness. Story lines, creativity, acting, and photography were often outstanding. The audio portion was always comfortable on the ears. People now days are complaining the music is too loud or the dialogue is hard to understand.
Of the 4 movies you review, Bob, I only remember Forbidden Planet. The similarity to Star Trek is something I didn’t recognize until you mentioned it. I might check out A Night to Remember on one of those lesser known free movie sights I use that has everything.
Thank you.
Robert,
I have long thought that the Hayes Code had benefits that Hollywood did not recognize or approve of. In many ways, Hollywood movies have gone downhill ever since The Code was replaced by the ratings system. In fact, as swearing and bad behavior became more prevalent in the movies it also became more acceptable in reality.
The 1960s were a boon to space sciences, but they were a disaster when it came to the future of society and culture.
“Those who are fans of Star Wars will recognize at the end of this movie how it inspired George Lucas.”
Oh, yeah. I noticed that soon after I watched Star Wars for the third time, in the theater that summer. The Dam Busters came on TV and I couldn’t help but notice the influence. Directors, on their DVD commentaries, tend to call that an “homage,” these days.
A Night To Remember is one of my favorite movies. The only other Titanic movie worth watching is John Cameron’s version, because the animated explanation at the beginning of the story gives an excellent overview of the sinking, showing the flooding of the bow section, the breakup of the ship, and the sinking of the aft. All other versions of this story are just a waste of film and of the audience’s time. Even Clifton Webb cannot save a terrible script. The fake drama distracts from the stories of all the other people (but if we want that, watch A Night To Remember), but that drama shows the flooding of the bow in an explicit way. In retrospect, that could also have been shown with stories of real people who were below decks, no bogus Jack-Rose-Cal love triangle.
By the way, did anyone notice that Cameron’s Titanic has a happy ending? Of course not! We were all too busy trying to hide from our girlfriends that we were wiping away tears at the tragedy of it all. How could Rose do that? (One of my brothers refuses to see Cameron’s version, but also does not want to know how it ends. I keep telling him anyway: “The ship sinks! It always sinks. It’s the Titanic.”)
“‘A’ causes ‘B’ which results in either ‘C’ or ‘D’, depending on what the characters choose.”
An excellent movie for when the character chooses poorly, chooses “D,” is also under the Hayes Code. On the Waterfront is famous for the line, “I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender. I coulda been somebody, instead of a bum, which is what I am, let’s face it.” One of the saddest lines in cinematic history. A film about the consequences of our choices. The movie shows what happens when you go along with the uncivilized people. Uncivilized things happen. How can they not? Just look at Detroit, Los Angeles, or the once-beautiful San Francisco.
Why doesn’t anyone care about the current writers’ strike? Because we don’t care for their modern, uncivilized, woke writing. We aren’t going to miss their terrible stories on television or in the movies.
If only they could write good old fashioned American movies like Casablanca, in which they rebel against the uncivilized people, save the world (or two couples, anyway), and begin a beautiful friendship.
Brought up my granddaughters on Forbidden Planet from very young. They loved it. Grokked the monsters of the Id concept. Both in college for STEM now, Bioinformatics & EE.
They saw Hunt for Red October as mid teens & were entranced.
I’m pretty much neutral to the use of “bad language ‘ in films… What is and isn’t considered foul language depends very much on the era you grew up in.
I have seen forbidden planet… It is excellent! I have also seen the equality excellent Dam Busters… Which uses a word that the younger generation considers the strongest bad language there is…
It is all very much a generational and geographical thing… Regarding language, we can all get peed off with the language used today, but languages change. Us “oldies” do not have the same vocabulary usage as “kids” today… Just like our parents didn’t have the same as we do. Wash and repeat for previous generations.
As for the geographical thing, I have always found it strange that the US has no problems with films filled with violence given a low age rating, but show a touch of nipple and it’s automatically 18+. Here in Sweden the attitude is much more relaxed. People don’t just walk around naked, but on a secluded beach, it is not unusual for friends and family to swim naked, jump in the sauna, get dressed and go about the day. Nudity ( with the exception of sexual content!) is not censored on television, or in films.
Films or TV containing violence however, are given an adult rating or broadcast after the 9pm watershed.
Swearing I could hardly care less about… We are not supposed to share our offsprings views, on language or any other subject. Violence on the screen, I don’t like… It normalises hurting our fellow man, and that can not lead to any good outcome. Nudity is only telling the truth. We are all naked under our clothes.
As for pulling ones hair out over the state of modern movies, it speaks volumes that my 17 year old and 15 year-old kids have seen Oppenheimer before I have… A cautionary tale about the greatest acts of violence man has ever committed against man.
The sky is not falling in, civilization is not falling into pieces, the pendulum is now swinging back from the “woke” bullcrap ( as I have been saying it will for some years now)!
To quote Billy Joel… ” The good old days weren’t all that good, but tomorrow ain’t as bad as it seems”
Oh, and just to be a pedant… In your commentary on the 4 films above, ( all excellent movies… I have no disagreement with anything you actually say about the films!) You say… Quote..
“What is most amazing is that all these films are remarkably entertaining. In fact, they were all made for general consumption, for ordinary audiences. Nor are they unusual for Hollywood prior to 1970”
2 of the films are British… Credit where credit is due. ;-)
“A cautionary tale about the greatest acts of violence man has ever committed against man.”
In the context of the time in history and the emerging truly paradigm changing technology:
Q: If the technology exists and you understand that your enemy also has the similar technology or ability to develop it, are you then obligated to develop it before they do and use it if necessary?
“the greatest acts of violence man has ever committed against man” are committed by those who start wars of conquest. Not by those who fight back and end them.
Patrick Underwood: How dare you mention such very pertinent facts! How can we denigrate the United States and the Allied Powers if we mention they didn’t start the war, and furthermore dropped the bomb because it was clear it would make it possible to end WWII as quickly as possible with as little death and destruction as possible.
Lee is a self-admitted lefty, which means he must ignore such facts in order to push his agenda. He is a nice guy, but he does this all the time.
I had a look through this list:
https://www.timeout.com/film/best-movies-of-all-time
I didn’t see any of the movies you mention, though the list has a good cross section from the last 100 years.
I have seen the three adult movies you mention, though none of them recently.
In the end I’ll go with the “in the eye of the beholder”, though for me the recent trend of Hollywood to preach woke ideology is repulsive.
Mike suggests The Enemy Below, I disagree, the book was great, the movie wasn’t, I thought too many divergences with the realities of WW2 naval submarine combat.
Andrew_W: You did not see these four films on that list for two reasons:
1. I was purposely picking films that even when they were made were considered standard entertainment, for the time. The goal was to give today’s filmgoers a sense of what most films were once like, not to give them a sampling of the greatest.
2. That list also includes a lot of films I consider very over-rated. They get their fame not because they were great films, but because they appealed to the elitist intellectual class of then and today. The first film on that list, 2001: A Space Odyssey, proves this. It was an original and interesting movie, with some evocative sequences and special effects, but it is also very shallow in its portrayal of people, a fact that made movie-goers in the late 1960s when it came out somewhat disenchanted.
Yes, the woke ideology is bad. But there is something even more insidious. It is the idea of following a dream at all costs. It is the idea that everyone would be happiest by being whoever they want to be, no matter what. We are told to ignore what anyone else wants to do. We are to ignore the needs and interests of others. What they believe doesn’t matter. All must be sacrificed for one’s own dream. The ultimate expression of this toxic belief is in the movie “The Astronaut Farmer”. This movie glorifies the highly self-centered act of a man willing to risk his own life as his children’s father, bankrupt his family, and cause hazards to others just for a thrill ride to space. He isn’t an astronaut going to advance his nation or mankind. He isn’t someone who can easily afford it. He has people who would suffer from his loss.
Most of us are unwilling to work hard enough to be Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Tom Brady, a professional pilot or actor, etc. Even those willing to work hard may not be suited for it. Or may have other obligations that must take precedence. Society only needs so many people in certain roles. These. Are. Facts. Of. Life.
Casablanca. Hands down. At the time it was not thought to be anything special, when they made it. They did not realize they had gold.
—————————————————-
“A cautionary tale about the greatest acts of violence man has ever committed against man.”
A bold face lie.
The genocide performed by the Nazis. The purges of Stalin. The massacres of Mao. Tens of millions of lives erased for fascist and communist tyrants.
The a-bomb stopped a war. Had they not used it, the invasion of Japan would have killed ten times more at a minimum. Any denial of this is naive.
Oh, Twelve O’Clock High, with Gregory Peck. I watch this movie at least once a year.
My parents absolutely hated science fiction…and I was subjected to Hee Haw.
Still, I learned much overhearing how they picked cotton until their fingers bled…I learned to dread the ringing of the rotary phone because it invariably meant another hospitalization or death of a relative.
On movies, Mr. Z is spot on.
Even watching the news has become a trying experience…I feel like an old woman in that half of what I see makes me just want to cry.
The ludicrous sex scenes in Oppenheimer are an example of how to debase a good drama film.
Interesting that the only criticism of my posts is my comment regarding the use of nuclear weapons by the US against Japan.
I never said I disagreed with the use in the second world war. I have read “The rape of NanKing”, I have seen a Japanese kamikaze plane ‘in the flesh” so to speak. (The wonderful museum at RAF Cosford has one, I recommend a visit if anyone here ever visits the UK )
There is a definite case to be made that the Japanise army were much more brutal and relentless than even the Nazis, and that the bomb dropped over Hiroshima saved many lives on both sides. The bomb over Nagasaki is however, much more problematic. I have heard the argument that it was to prove to the Japanese that we had a supply of such weapons. This could have been achieved with a detonation at sea, or at least over an underpopulated area. The choice of Nagasaki, a mostly residential city, for what was essentially a test remains problematic.
All the above considered, for right or wrong, the only time nuclear weapons have been used in warfare remain the greatest single acts of violence committed by mankind.
And Bob…. Quote..
” Lee is a self-admitted lefty, which means he must ignore such facts in order to push his agenda. He is a nice guy, but he does this all the time. ”
I’m not a member of your “loony left” , the only agenda I have is my push for a more socialist society. I believe in higher tax on the rich, a greater safety net for the poor, a greater, but importantly transparent involvement of government in providing basic services, ( housing, water, electricity, Public transport etc..)
Labeling me a “lefty” on this forum does me a massive injustice, I have been arguing the case that your use of the term for anyone left of your ( and pretty much everyone here ) opinions tars everyone with the same brush.
Yes I am left wing in my politics, but NO! I do not believe anyone should be “blacklisted” over views unless there comments cause physical harm
Yes I am left wing in my politics, buy NO! I do not believe that pre-teen kids should be able to pick their gender and receive medical interventions. I have absolutely no problems with any adults rights to live anyway they want to, it’s not my business. But small kids should not be allowed to make life changing decisions.
I could go on and on…..
The main difference between myself and you Bob, and the majority of the readers here is my belief that a kinder, more encompassing world is possible, with a bigger, but more transparent state where the wealthy contribute more, and the underprivileged receive more, to help lift them out of poverty.
A flower cannot grow without good soil and water. The current mindset of very many people is “screw you jack”, being too closed minded to realise that provide child care, a mother can go out and work, paying taxes, provide good education, you get educated people, doing good jobs, paying taxes, etc, etc.
And this isn’t even getting into the fact that every human has the right to food and shelter. If you disagree with this statement then you are saying it’s ok for a fellow human to freeze or starve to death, and if so, shame on you.
Yes, I am left wing in my politics, but the only agenda I am pushing is let’s find a way to look after the disadvantage, and see them become productive members off society.
( a side note…. I got an awful lot of criticism many years ago because I got a payment towards my rent, free childcare, and a payment towards the cost of raising 2 kids.
All gone now, but I continue paying C.33% income tax. I know I’m paying for the generation before me, however my streets are clean, my kids education remains excellent, my housing remains affordable and contrary to the news, the streets of my town remain safe. )
“I’m not a member of your “loony left”, the only agenda I have is my push for a more socialist society.”
Spoken like a true member of the loony Left.
Socialism is based in a Subjective perspective, and what is the only thing that can result is a Subjective Socialist perspective? AUTHORITARIANISM.
What do you not get about this Lee S?
You do not live in a Socialist country Lee S so why would you want and seek Socialism? A “more Socialist society” can only result in a Socialist society. You live in a capitalist-based country that chooses some degree of social programs for their population. There is a vast, vast difference.
Your, again, Subjective warm and fuzzy feelings about how you think things should be in a perfect world can only result in AUTHORITARIANISM.
Remember: WEF: “In the future you will own nothing, and you will be happy”. That is what you embrace? You desire to have your children managed by authoritarian rule?
HELLO!
Lee–
Reference the War in the Pacific;
The February 1945, B-29 raid on Tokyo [Operation Meetinghouse] turned (roughly) 2 square miles of Tokyo into ash, and killed (roughly) 90K people. Over the next 5 months practically every city of import in Japan was area-bombed, mainly with incendiaries.
And yet, these fanatics would still not quit, and they were perfectly ready to sacrifice millions of their own people.
It’s easy to look back on history and 2nd-guess every decision, from the comfort of your easy-chair.
“Who Was General Curtis LeMay?”
America’s Untold Stories (Aug. 1, 2023)
https://youtu.be/0K-VHqH-p-0
1:54:59
The Dambusters (1954)
Radio dramatization
https://archive.org/details/TheDambusters1954OtrAustralianRadio
@ Contour… Quote…
“”What do you not get about this Lee S?
You do not live in a Socialist country Lee S so why would you want and seek Socialism? A “more Socialist society” can only result in a Socialist society. You live in a capitalist-based country that chooses some degree of social programs for their population. There is a vast, vast difference.”
What exactly are you calling me out for?
I live in a country where I enjoy the benefits of a WAY more socialist environment than you do. I also pay WAY more tax than you do. I would not swap places with you for love or money. I consider the USA to have a terrible social system… Before everyone fires into me, I also think the United Kingdom now has a pretty awful social system, although the NHS is still much more inclusive ( free at point of care )
Now then Contour,
What exactly is your beef with the society I advocate for? A society with higher tax and better social services, helping to lift the least privileged to become functional members of society, putting back into the pot to help others, who will become productive members of society, wash and repeat.
Your statement.. quote … “You do not live in a Socialist country Lee S so why would you want and seek Socialism? ”
Makes zero sense my friend. You do not live in the country you would like the US to be. If you did, you would not complain so much.
I will never stop working and hoping for a better world, a world where humans are treated equally, and a world where the rich contribute to raising the poor out of poverty.
I’m guessing you are Christian… And even if you are not, remember the whole Jesus/money lenders tale. When 99% of the world’s capital is owned by 5% of the world’s population.
Justify that, then call me “loony left”
@Wayne…
I am not well read enough to make a firm judgement on the whole right/wrong thing regarding the nuking of Japan… My gut instinct leans towards “right”, although I’m sure I could read enough loony left literature to have a good argument if I wished ;-)
But like I said, those two nukes were the most massive single acts of violence man has ever committed against man. There is no argument about that…. There is a (thank your personal god ) a good reason we have not seen an atomic weapon used in violence since.
To wade into the weeds, when the Berlin wall came down, I thought perhaps the fear of nuclear war I grew up with had past… ( you guys got 8 minutes… In the UK we got 3)
But it seems that we are as close to destruction now as much as we were back then. Hypersonic ICBs, nutcase. Putin with one finger on one button, geriatric Biden with his finger on the other… Kim ping pong waving his rockets around, and China making moves towards Taiwan.
The generation who actually experienced, and reported on the devestatingly powerful effects of a nuke are no longer with us.
The use of nuclear weapons in a theatre of war is more likely now than at any time since the 80’s…. I am scared when I really think about it .. so I try not to think about it.
And I try and hide it from my kids. Duck and cover anyone?…. Quack!
I have to ask a question that has popped in and out of my mind over the years
@Cotour, do you have a passport, and if so, which countries have you visited?
Serious question.
Lee S: Your usual weak use of facts is illustrated so nicely at the beginning of your comment. You quote me precisely, and criticize me for calling you a member of the “loony left.”
Um, in case you still need help, no where did I ever even use the term “loony left.” I called you a “self-admitted lefty,” which you immediately confirm as utterly accurate by the rest of your comment.
Passports? Countries? I have been around.
If you have an issue with what I have to say, please be direct and lets discuss it. I think I have been direct with you, and I expect the same.
I think I have a pretty well-developed sense of what in fact is going on in the world on a wide variety and spectrum of issues and agendas.
Lee S: “I am not well read enough to make a firm judgement on the whole right/wrong thing regarding the nuking of Japan”
This is a simple existential logic question, and you are unable to confidently and definitively answer it?
There I think this is the issue here. (Doesn’t mean you are not a nice or decent person, not at all. But there are from my point of view some issues that I find you are “not well read on” and are short sighted on)
You do not have to be as well read as you think you need to be to make an assessment about an existential question.
I pretty much tell you what I think and then I back it up with rational from my point of view facts and opinions:
Click it, Read it, Share it. Disagree with it? Tell Me All About It:
“But 61 courts have rejected any accusations of voter fraud!” That IMO will soon be changing. Many of you are probably not aware of this particular case involving Democrats in Michigan that went down just before the 2020 presidential election:”
EVIDENCE OF VOTER FRAUND IN THE 2020 ELECTION? QUACK!
https://www.sigma3ioc.com/blog
You can read page after page of what I think and why.
* What exactly are you calling me out for?
Your short sightedness. You live a good life, yes, I hear you and that is a good thing. And that is but a thin slice of reality.
My point that you are not detecting is that in the big picture the incremental encroachment of “Socialism” in time Must, Must become authoritarian. It is the nature of that beast.
This is what it ends in: And here we have a clarifying 40 second video clip of Sergey Brin, American billionaire business magnate best known for co-founding Google, talking with World Economic Forum founder, Klause Schwab: https://youtu.be/Pjpmh_iG9PE
They tell you exactly what they intend in the big picture / long term. And I say no. As soon as they tell you not to struggle and fight any more it is all over. And that is IMO where you naturally are going towards.
And that simply is my boiled down point to you.
The nazis were Socialists – National Socialists.
The USSR, Soviet Union were Socialists – Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
The Democrat Party is being turned into a “Democratic Socialist” party – plus “the squad” is a fetid corner of the former Democrat Party.
and that’s why I am no longer a registered Democrat. I believe that the once proud Democrat party has been Hijacked, just as 4 passenger planes were hijacked on 9/11.
I’m an Independent.
Here is a bit more supporting evidence for you Lee S: https://youtu.be/q3QKaof_4EA
Reality all in under 5 minutes.
Authoritarianism that you and your children will be subject to.
Things like this WHO “special” arrangement is also why Trump is under such heavy fire and under the threat of prison.
Why? Because he would NEVER allow such an authoritarian change. NEVER.
Trump is a fly in their authoritarian ointment.
Are you beginning to see?
The difference between the right and left is that the right focuses on growing wealth and letting effort and markets distribute it, the left on redistributing it, by force if necessary, and have little interest in growing wealth.
“But like I said, those two nukes were the most massive single acts of violence man has ever committed against man. There is no argument about that….”
But yes there is disagreement about it.
This conversation is proof of that.
But t
It has been debated since 1945.
An act of extreme violence can be justified or not. It is the difference between “Thou a
Shall not Murder” and the incorrect “Thou shall not kill”.
An act of genocide that kills millions for nothing more that their faith, ethnicity or ideology is far worse than an atomic weapon that kills hundred of thousands, as an act of total war.
You suggested Nagasaki was unnecessary: War is a test of wills. Hiroshima was bombed, and yet Japan had not submitted. A “demonstration” was considered, and disregard. The test of wills demands that the weapon used as intended. The message is not “we have more.”, it was “we have more and we will use them” (And history has shown that it broke the will of the Japanese. )
The former works in peace time/detente. The latter is required in warfare.
This is straight forward and simple. By suggesting a demonstration you show a serious lack of understanding of warfare. You claim to understand that it was needed to avoid higher casualties, but then you suggest the “demonstration” argument”? You contradict yourself, sir
“But it seems that we are as close to destruction now as much as we were back then. Hypersonic ICBs, nutcase. Putin with one finger on one button, geriatric Biden with his finger on the other… Kim ping pong waving his rockets around, and China making moves towards Taiwan”
This perspective is huge. I grew up with a existential threat hanging over my head, as a Gen X-er. And yet today, as the threat rises, kids today are clueless, wrapped up in tik tok and navel gazing about what gender they feel like today.
They are told to vote for the guy that will “affirm their gender” instead of the guy that beat back the threat.
Some believe that the Star Wars Death Star attack sequence was actually inspired by the movie “633 Squadron”, which featured a British bomber that was even more versatile than the Avro Lancaster, the de Havilland DH98 Mosquito:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OZq-tlJTrU
Lee-
reference your comment about nukes over japan:
…”the most massive single acts of violence…”
That is just not true. I get that nuclear bombs are scary and all, but in Europe the Allies systematically bombed Germany. The British by night, and the USA by day.
These were massive air-raids, hundreds and hundreds of bombers, scattering 500lb bombs all over the place.
In the Pacific, we had to build the B-29 because of the distance ($2 billion spent IIRC) and then we systematically laid waste to most of the Japanese cities.
They attacked us, we declared war on them.
They had to be utterly shocked into submission, defeated, and then occupied. And they HAD to KNOW IT, deep in their hearts.
Now, were all friends.
Third Atomic Bomb Attack – Japan 1945
Mark Felton (Aug 9, 2020)
https://youtu.be/I34pxr23Nhw
24:52
In brief– if the Japanese did not surrender by August 15, a 3rd ‘fatman’ type bomb was to dropped on August 19th.
It isn’t just the movies that are now run by barbarians.
I was sitting in the dentist’s chair, yesterday afternoon, listening to the music while the dentist was figuring out the next thing he was going to do to my teeth and gums, and I realized that the music was all from the 1930s and the 1950s, sung mostly by people of the 1930s and 1950s. Modern music is so poor in quality (tune, instruments, poetry, style, etc.) that pretty much everyone prefers the music and the talent from a century ago. The music industry seems to have fallen prey to barbarians, too.
Something is wrong with the people of today, and barbarism certainly would explain it.