Another Chinese pseudo-company vertically lands a prototype 1st stage
According to China’s state-run press, the Chinese pseudo-company Expace yesterday successfully completed a short hop, with a methane-fueled prototype first stage of its next generation Kuaizhou rocket taking off and landing vertically.
The flight time lasted 22 seconds, and the rocket hovered in the air for nine seconds, with a height accuracy of 0.15 meter. The landing posture of the test rocket was stable, the landing position accurate and the rocket body in good condition, signifying the success of the experiment, according to the company.
Several things. First, this “company” is directly affliated with one of China’s government space agency. Its presently operating Kuaizhou rocket uses solid-fueled stages, adapted directly from missile technology that could only be obtained with full permission of that government. Second, there appears to be a plethora of these Chinese rocket “startups” now flying and testing methane-fueled engines. Want to bet the Chinese government told them all to share design information?
Third, there is also a plethora of Chinese pseudo-companies testing vertical take-off and landing for their first stages. Want to bet the Chinese government also told them to share design information?
Without question China’s space industry is moving fast, and will definitely be a competitive threat in the coming years — assuming outside events, such as war or economic collapse, don’t overwhelm things. However, it is a big mistake to see its industry as made up of independent, privately owned, and competing companies. They raise investment capital, compete for contracts from the government and other Chinese commercial entities, but in the end, everything they do is coordinated from above, by the Chinese communists.
On Christmas Eve 1968 three Americans became the first humans to visit another world. What they did to celebrate was unexpected and profound, and will be remembered throughout all human history. Genesis: the Story of Apollo 8, Robert Zimmerman's classic history of humanity's first journey to another world, tells that story, and it is now available as both an ebook and an audiobook, both with a foreword by Valerie Anders and a new introduction by Robert Zimmerman.
The ebook is available everywhere for $5.99 (before discount) at amazon, or direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit. If you buy it from ebookit you don't support the big tech companies and the author gets a bigger cut much sooner.
The audiobook is also available at all these vendors, and is also free with a 30-day trial membership to Audible.
"Not simply about one mission, [Genesis] is also the history of America's quest for the moon... Zimmerman has done a masterful job of tying disparate events together into a solid account of one of America's greatest human triumphs."--San Antonio Express-News
According to China’s state-run press, the Chinese pseudo-company Expace yesterday successfully completed a short hop, with a methane-fueled prototype first stage of its next generation Kuaizhou rocket taking off and landing vertically.
The flight time lasted 22 seconds, and the rocket hovered in the air for nine seconds, with a height accuracy of 0.15 meter. The landing posture of the test rocket was stable, the landing position accurate and the rocket body in good condition, signifying the success of the experiment, according to the company.
Several things. First, this “company” is directly affliated with one of China’s government space agency. Its presently operating Kuaizhou rocket uses solid-fueled stages, adapted directly from missile technology that could only be obtained with full permission of that government. Second, there appears to be a plethora of these Chinese rocket “startups” now flying and testing methane-fueled engines. Want to bet the Chinese government told them all to share design information?
Third, there is also a plethora of Chinese pseudo-companies testing vertical take-off and landing for their first stages. Want to bet the Chinese government also told them to share design information?
Without question China’s space industry is moving fast, and will definitely be a competitive threat in the coming years — assuming outside events, such as war or economic collapse, don’t overwhelm things. However, it is a big mistake to see its industry as made up of independent, privately owned, and competing companies. They raise investment capital, compete for contracts from the government and other Chinese commercial entities, but in the end, everything they do is coordinated from above, by the Chinese communists.
On Christmas Eve 1968 three Americans became the first humans to visit another world. What they did to celebrate was unexpected and profound, and will be remembered throughout all human history. Genesis: the Story of Apollo 8, Robert Zimmerman's classic history of humanity's first journey to another world, tells that story, and it is now available as both an ebook and an audiobook, both with a foreword by Valerie Anders and a new introduction by Robert Zimmerman.
The ebook is available everywhere for $5.99 (before discount) at amazon, or direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit. If you buy it from ebookit you don't support the big tech companies and the author gets a bigger cut much sooner.
The audiobook is also available at all these vendors, and is also free with a 30-day trial membership to Audible.
"Not simply about one mission, [Genesis] is also the history of America's quest for the moon... Zimmerman has done a masterful job of tying disparate events together into a solid account of one of America's greatest human triumphs."--San Antonio Express-News
Vertical take-offs and landings isn’t exactly hard with modern electronics — DC-X did it many years ago, small start-ups like Armadillo, Masten and Stokes did it too, and now there are several examples on YouTube of hobbyists landing model rockets(!) using off-the-shelf equipment.
What is going to be interesting is when they start trying coming back from orbital velocities.
Was it like one of those old Japanese horror movies where you could see the wires holding it up?
Jhon B: LOL
Unfortunately the Chicoms have been become quite adept at aerospace technology. They don’t invent anything because their confiscatory system disincentivizes it, but they are fast followers and have had great help from greedy and unscrupulous operators in the West at best, and treasonous collaborators at worst.
We underestimate them at our peril.
Jhon B,
The pointy end red tether attached to a crane was the first thing I noticed, but it did go slack during the test on assent. I don’t think the tether would have permitted the rocket to tip over had there been an issue on the way down, but who knows. :-)
“Expace”… is this somebody’s idea of a joke?
Re “coming back from orbital velocities.”: only the Shuttle, Buran, the X-37 and various capsules have achieved that.
Probably you meant landing an orbital-class booster, like the F9. But the recovered part of an F9, the booster or first stage, never achieves anywhere near orbital velocity. Its job is to get the second stage and payload above the densest part of the atmosphere and pointed downrange – the second stage does most of the work of getting the payload to orbital velocity.
The really impressive part of the Falcon 9 reentry is the “hoverslam”. It never hovers. The rocket’s thrust equals its weight the millisecond it reaches the pad. That’s pretty tough, I’ve heard. This really helps save fuel. The boosters are cheaper than expendables even when expended. They have an active production line. They are unmanned. All of the above means that loosing one is not a big deal. That is why they Spacex was able to try this risky but high payoff technique.
Concerned,
“Unfortunately the Chicoms have been become quite adept at stealing aerospace technology. ”
Fixed it for you. ;)
My favorite Kipling quote:
They copied all they could follow
but they couldn’t copy my mind
so I left them sweating and stealing
a year and a half behind.
“””pawn
January 28, 2024 at 8:28 am
My favorite Kipling quote:
They copied all they could follow
but they couldn’t copy my mind
so I left them sweating and stealing
a year and a half behind.”””
One problem is that a year and a half is a short period of time on tech that has decade (or more) cycles. A company that was a year and a half behind SpaceX would have a very active Falcon9 clone.
Man, you Americans are really nervous about the Chinese competition.
Questioner.
First, the Chinese would not be so fearsome if they did not steal. They have been no problem with it.
Two. They buy into Mao’s ideals. Mao’s massacres make Adolf look like a rank amateur.
Communism should be avoided at all costs.
Questioner,
There isn’t really any PRC “competition” to be much concerned about. This test was a tethered hop of a single-engine test article. The “methalox” engine used is probably the same conversion of the hypergolic engine used on the CZ-2/3 series that Landspace rejiggered to become the Zhuque-2.
The most impressive part of the test was demonstrating throttling sufficient to soft-land.
But a very necessary capability for any booster stage looking to be recoverable as part of an actual orbital launch is relighting at least one engine in flight after initial shutdown and stage separation. Ironically, the original hypergolic version of the CZ-2/3 engine has such a capability intrinsically. But it will have to be added in some fashion for the version modified to run on non-hypergolic methalox. This is a significant item on the critical path to having a booster that can actually compete with Falcon 9. It will be interesting to see how long such a capability is in appearing.
There is also the matter of grid fins for steering, but the PRC has done some experiments of that sort so I don’t think grid fins are likely to be any sort of showstopper.
Bottom line is that the PRC is still some non-trivial ways away from having any sort of operational F9 “clone.” The slow-motion collapse of the PRC economy, currently in progress, could well start monkey-wrenching all PRC space efforts fairly soon.
Questioner, why would anyone not be very concerned with a totalitarian state, that regularly denounces freedom and self determination, extending its military capabilities in the “high ground” of space?
I would think only a Chinese communist, not yet eaten by his own system, would find such concern objectionable.
sippin_bourbon & Robert Pratt:
I believe that today’s China is no longer the China of Mao. Just like modern Russia is not the Soviet Union (many people in the US forget that).
I am of the opinion that this term communism, like other political terms, is no longer suitable today to describe China, for example. In addition, the political distinction between “Western” states is becoming blurred, where we always see totalitarian traits among the ruling elite.
For example, in the United States today there are political phenomena that could certainly be described as communist. For example wokism. The USA’s democracy, which was already questionable because it was guided by special interests groups, can be no longer called a democracy, as shown, for example, by the fraud in the 2020 presidential election.
Questioner. The US is not a democracy. Never was. It is a republic.
Maybe they are not quoting Mao at every turn anymore, but the political oppression within their own borders is still very real. The people fear their government. They are bullied and brainwashed into compliance.
They respect treaty and agreements as long as they serve their purpose. If not, then it is ignored. Example is the theft of intellectual property. They need it, they steal it a any cost. At some point, the idea of based based weapons may seem necessary to them. Do you think they will let a treaty or the UN tell them no?
Communism was never pure communism. It was sold as pure communism to the masses. That way they would grant power to the leaders in hopes they gained something from everyone’s work.
But it never pans out that way. The leaders were just dictators running the nation how they saw fit for themselves alone, their power and wealth.
When the soviet union broke up what rose to power was a cabal of previous party members who turned into oligarchs. the wealth and knowledge they gained while in the party turned them into the new business class. The wealth leading the nation. The man at the top never changed because he is the biggest of them all.
You see the very thing happening in China then and now except in slow motion. The party is giving all these companies technology and cash and letting them be led by good party members. In the future they will become the Chinese oligarchs.
If and when Russia and China turn around and allow open and free elections for ALL offices is the day I will no longer consider them a threat to the western world..
Until then they are nations working against single industries instead of whole nations. Their goal is to create an economy equal to the western economies and thus become the new top dogs in the world. While staying a dictatorship.
No they will never go into a full scale war against the west but they will work hard to destroy your personal economy. Shut down your nations industry.
“Communism was never pure communism.”
That is because true pure communism is an impossible system.
Oh I know communism was never in any way pure communism. Not even in the California communes of the heyday.
As soon as someone could hide out and not do their manual labor for the day the system starts to break down. As soon as someone must be elected leader and the rest HAVE to follow his orders the system is totally shot. Its a republic if they step aside at the agreed time or its a new dictatorship.
Either way its no longer a pure communist system.
Questioner, just because you “believe” something doesn’t make it so. If I had time so to do, I could provide not hundreds, but thousands of stories, including some directly translated from Chinese government controlled press and often far more direct and far more militaristic, similar to this – which is actually benign in tone but deeply meaningful in effect: China seeks a world order that defers to states and their rulers. https://www.economist.com/special-report/2022/10/10/china-seeks-a-world-order-that-defers-to-states-and-their-rulers (No right wing American publication, that!)
Or this: ‘We in the west were blinded’: China crackdown on business has Maoist roots” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/21/china-expert-chris-marquis-tech-crackdown-xi-maoism (Again from a socialist and communist friendly source.)
Believe whatever you wish but check it against the realities that come out of China everyday. Maybe check with a few involved people from Hong Kong, I know several, who can tell you the difference of living under a British governor versus the Chinese Communist Party and its PLA.