To read this post please scroll down.

 

Readers! A November fund-raising drive!

 

It is unfortunately time for another November fund-raising campaign to support my work here at Behind the Black. I really dislike doing these, but 2025 is so far turning out to be a very poor year for donations and subscriptions, the worst since 2020. I very much need your support for this webpage to survive.

 

And I think I provide real value. Fifteen years ago I said SLS was garbage and should be cancelled. Almost a decade ago I said Orion was a lie and a bad idea. As early as 1998, long before almost anyone else, I predicted in my first book, Genesis: The Story of Apollo 8, that private enterprise and freedom would conquer the solar system, not government. Very early in the COVID panic and continuing throughout I noted that every policy put forth by the government (masks, social distancing, lockdowns, jab mandates) was wrong, misguided, and did more harm than good. In planetary science, while everyone else in the media still thinks Mars has no water, I have been reporting the real results from the orbiters now for more than five years, that Mars is in fact a planet largely covered with ice.

 

I could continue with numerous other examples. If you want to know what others will discover a decade hence, read what I write here at Behind the Black. And if you read my most recent book, Conscious Choice, you will find out what is going to happen in space in the next century.

 

 

This last claim might sound like hubris on my part, but I base it on my overall track record.

 

So please consider donating or subscribing to Behind the Black, either by giving a one-time contribution or a regular subscription. I could really use the support at this time. There are five ways of doing so:

 

1. Zelle: This is the only internet method that charges no fees. All you have to do is use the Zelle link at your internet bank and give my name and email address (zimmerman at nasw dot org). What you donate is what I get.

 

2. Patreon: Go to my website there and pick one of five monthly subscription amounts, or by making a one-time donation. Takes about a 10% cut.
 

3. A Paypal Donation or subscription, which takes about a 15% cut:

 

4. Donate by check. I get whatever you donate. Make the check payable to Robert Zimmerman and mail it to
 
Behind The Black
c/o Robert Zimmerman
P.O.Box 1262
Cortaro, AZ 85652

 

You can also support me by buying one of my books, as noted in the boxes interspersed throughout the webpage or shown in the menu above.


Someone is apparently considering putting a helicopter on Starship when it goes to Mars

Potential Starship helicopter location

In my regular trolling through the images sent down from Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter (MRO), I sometimes come across things that imply truly exciting future missions. That happened when in 2019 I found a bunch of photos each labeled as a “candidate landing site for SpaceX Starship”. Without fanfare SpaceX had begun researching locations for where it intended to land Starship on Mars, in the northern lowland plains, research that it later solidified considerably.

Similarly, I have found MRO images in 2022 suggesting scientists were thinking of running a helicopter mission inside Valles Marineris, the largest canyon in the solar system. Another image in 2024 suggested that a helicopter mission might go to another region in Mars’s southern cratered highlands.

The image to the right, cropped, reduced, and sharpened to post here, is another new example of a potential Martian helicopter mission. It was taken on August 19, 2025 and is labeled provocatively “Characterize Possible Rotorcraft Landing Site.” Unlike the previous two proposed helicopter locations, however — which appeared to be aimed at uncertain NASA funding — this image’s location suggests it is far more certain, and might launch far sooner than you can imagine.

Overview map

The black cross on overview map to the right marks the location, in the northern fringes of the Erebus Mountains and only 79 miles from Starship prime landing site #2. It is also only 30 to 40 miles from secondary candidate landing sites #1 and #5.

Why fly a helicopter here? The picture explains why. This region is known to have a lot of near surface ice, some of which is thought to be just a few feet below the surface. The mottled terrain to the right suggests exactly that, with the mottling caused as that near surface ice sublimated away over time.

Note the craters. None appear to be impact craters, since they have no rims or splash aprons. Instead, these appear to be sinkholes, possibly caused as well by underground sublimation of that ice. Moreover, just a few hundred feet to the west is an 800-foot-high peak with a crater at its top, clearly resembling a small volcano. In this case, however, the material ejected from that caldera was likely ice-impregnated mud.

Or at least, that’s my guess. To confirm these guesses you’d have to send a rover or helicopter there to take a closer look.

In other words, some scientist or someone at SpaceX is researching the idea of loading a helicopter onto one of the early Starship Mars missions, and requested this image because this would be a great place to send it. And based on Elon Musk’s preliminary Starship Mars plans, announced in May 2025 and shown in the graphic below, there will be plenty of opportunities in the next decade to do so.

The Musk game plan for Mars exploration over the next few years
The Musk preliminary game plan for sending Starship landers to Mars over the next few years. Click for source.

All of this is guesswork on my part, but I don’t think my guesses are far off the mark. Starship provides scientists a great opportunity to do ground-breaking work that had previously been considered impossible because of cost and the weight limitations of the available rockets. Starship’s reusable design and incredible power changes that paradigm entirely. The cost will drop so much that private citizens or companies could finance such missions, getting great publicity in the process.

The future American space program being run by SpaceX is going to be something truly to behold.

Genesis cover

On Christmas Eve 1968 three Americans became the first humans to visit another world. What they did to celebrate was unexpected and profound, and will be remembered throughout all human history. Genesis: the Story of Apollo 8, Robert Zimmerman's classic history of humanity's first journey to another world, tells that story, and it is now available as both an ebook and an audiobook, both with a foreword by Valerie Anders and a new introduction by Robert Zimmerman.

 

The print edition can be purchased at Amazon or from any other book seller. If you want an autographed copy the price is $60 for the hardback and $45 for the paperback, plus $8 shipping for each. Go here for purchasing details. The ebook is available everywhere for $5.99 (before discount) at amazon, or direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit. If you buy it from ebookit you don't support the big tech companies and the author gets a bigger cut much sooner.


The audiobook is also available at all these vendors, and is also free with a 30-day trial membership to Audible.
 

"Not simply about one mission, [Genesis] is also the history of America's quest for the moon... Zimmerman has done a masterful job of tying disparate events together into a solid account of one of America's greatest human triumphs."--San Antonio Express-News

11 comments

  • Ray Van Dune

    A CH-47 Chinook would fit nicely, no? Some supplemental LOX required.

  • Richard M

    Wow. I hope this happens.

  • Patrick Underwood

    Richard M, thanks for your reply on YT!

    Phillip has taken a dislike to me for some reason. :)

    https://youtu.be/E3JIO9blTfg?si=8i8ZUZDks_509eyS

  • Jeff Wright

    Jeff Greason was unavailable for comment

  • Dick Eagleson

    Jeff Wright,

    Why would Jeff Greason comment? He was never involved with rotorcraft. I think you’ve got him confused with Gary Hudson of the late Rotary Rocket Company.

  • Jeff Wright

    It was a ROTON joke….never mind

  • Jeff Wright

    PS I thought he did play a role in that

  • Patrick Underwood

    Yep Jeff G was part of the ROTON prop team.

    Always takes me a while, when I bother, to parse Jeff Wright’s statements. Suspect he’s on a different wavelength than my own!

  • Nice to think SpaceX thinking in terms of hundreds of tons payload of per lander. Figure out how to use the lander on site after unloading and you will have something fun. Regardless, in space terms, this massive and a real improvement.

    One of the things I played around with long ago was order of magnitude tonnage moved around the US in various modes of shipping. Most of us don’t realize the sheer mass of stuff being moved from here to there on a daily basis.

    For example, there are roughly 1.6 rail cars in service in the US today. Average fully loaded payload runs 70 – 115 tons.

    There are around 5.6 million over the road trailers in service today. Average payload runs around 20 tons, though the legal limit is twice that.

    Either way, it is nice to finally be thinking about tonnages moved from here to there in space. Cheers –

  • Dick Eagleson

    Jeff Wright,

    Upon further digging, I find Jeff Greason was at Rotary Rocket for at least awhile. Gary Hudson was the CEO and co-founder and a guy named Bevin McKinney was CTO and had the idea for the rotor. Greason was apparently a propulsion engineer there. I couldn’t find out if he was involved in the rotor-tip engines or the fixed engines on the base of the craft or both.

    In any case, you have provided me a pair of orthopedic shoes and I stand corrected.

  • Jeff Wright

    I need those shoes more than you do…

    To Patrick U

    “Suspect he’s on a different wavelength than my own!”

    You don’t want in my head.
    John Malkovich couldn’t withstand it.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *