Scientists find hydrogen molecules in Chang’e-5 lunar samples
According to China’s state-run press, scientists analyzing the lunar samples brought back by its Chang’e-5 lander have detected extensive “hydrated” molecules in Moon’s regolith.
The mineral’s structure and composition bear a striking resemblance to a mineral found near volcanoes on Earth. At the same time, terrestrial contamination or rocket exhaust has been ruled out as the origin of this hydrate, according to the study.
The Chinese article keeps referring to these molecules as a form of “water molecules” but that is dead wrong. These are mineral molecules that simply have hydrogen as a component. There is no water here.
The discovery suggests that the detection of hydrogen on the surface of the Moon, both in the permanently-shadowed craters at the poles as well as lower latitudes, might not be water at all, but hydrated minerals. If so, the Moon is going to be a much more difficult place to establish colonies or even research bases, as getting water (and hydrogen and oxygen) is going to require a much more difficult mining and processing effort.
For several years the data has increasingly pointed in this direction. And for several years I have noticed a strong unwillingness of scientists and the press to recognize the trend (as illustrated by the above article’s false insistence that these are water molecules). Water ice has not been ruled out yet in the permanently-shadowed craters at the poles, but the evidence is mounting against it.
I suspect this reluctance is fueled by a desire to not say anything that might discourage exploration of the Moon, and the possibility of water there has been the main driver for all the recent lunar exploration programs. I can’t play that game. As much as I want humanity to explore the Moon and the solar system, we mustn’t do it based on lies. The facts need to be reported coldly.
On Christmas Eve 1968 three Americans became the first humans to visit another world. What they did to celebrate was unexpected and profound, and will be remembered throughout all human history. Genesis: the Story of Apollo 8, Robert Zimmerman's classic history of humanity's first journey to another world, tells that story, and it is now available as both an ebook and an audiobook, both with a foreword by Valerie Anders and a new introduction by Robert Zimmerman.
The print edition can be purchased at Amazon. from any other book seller, or direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit.
The ebook is available everywhere for $5.99 (before discount) at amazon, or direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit. If you buy it from ebookit you don't support the big tech companies and the author gets a bigger cut much sooner.
The audiobook is also available at all these vendors, and is also free with a 30-day trial membership to Audible.
"Not simply about one mission, [Genesis] is also the history of America's quest for the moon... Zimmerman has done a masterful job of tying disparate events together into a solid account of one of America's greatest human triumphs."--San Antonio Express-News
According to China’s state-run press, scientists analyzing the lunar samples brought back by its Chang’e-5 lander have detected extensive “hydrated” molecules in Moon’s regolith.
The mineral’s structure and composition bear a striking resemblance to a mineral found near volcanoes on Earth. At the same time, terrestrial contamination or rocket exhaust has been ruled out as the origin of this hydrate, according to the study.
The Chinese article keeps referring to these molecules as a form of “water molecules” but that is dead wrong. These are mineral molecules that simply have hydrogen as a component. There is no water here.
The discovery suggests that the detection of hydrogen on the surface of the Moon, both in the permanently-shadowed craters at the poles as well as lower latitudes, might not be water at all, but hydrated minerals. If so, the Moon is going to be a much more difficult place to establish colonies or even research bases, as getting water (and hydrogen and oxygen) is going to require a much more difficult mining and processing effort.
For several years the data has increasingly pointed in this direction. And for several years I have noticed a strong unwillingness of scientists and the press to recognize the trend (as illustrated by the above article’s false insistence that these are water molecules). Water ice has not been ruled out yet in the permanently-shadowed craters at the poles, but the evidence is mounting against it.
I suspect this reluctance is fueled by a desire to not say anything that might discourage exploration of the Moon, and the possibility of water there has been the main driver for all the recent lunar exploration programs. I can’t play that game. As much as I want humanity to explore the Moon and the solar system, we mustn’t do it based on lies. The facts need to be reported coldly.
On Christmas Eve 1968 three Americans became the first humans to visit another world. What they did to celebrate was unexpected and profound, and will be remembered throughout all human history. Genesis: the Story of Apollo 8, Robert Zimmerman's classic history of humanity's first journey to another world, tells that story, and it is now available as both an ebook and an audiobook, both with a foreword by Valerie Anders and a new introduction by Robert Zimmerman.
The print edition can be purchased at Amazon. from any other book seller, or direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit. The ebook is available everywhere for $5.99 (before discount) at amazon, or direct from my ebook publisher, ebookit. If you buy it from ebookit you don't support the big tech companies and the author gets a bigger cut much sooner.
The audiobook is also available at all these vendors, and is also free with a 30-day trial membership to Audible.
"Not simply about one mission, [Genesis] is also the history of America's quest for the moon... Zimmerman has done a masterful job of tying disparate events together into a solid account of one of America's greatest human triumphs."--San Antonio Express-News
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_hydration
“In inorganic chemistry, mineral hydration is a reaction which adds water to the crystal structure of a mineral, usually creating a new mineral, commonly called a hydrate.”
Minerals with a crystal structure that incorporates water molecules. So there are water molecules there.
In any case just finding hydrogen is good as there is plenty of available oxygen in the rocks.
Also – remember Clementine? Detected lots of hydrogen near lunar poles.
Mike-
thanks for that.
(took enough chemistry & geology to be dangerous…)
(Something likes 90% of the Universe, is composed of hydrogen.)
“Hydrated minerals” by definition have complete water-molecules there-in. The water can be extracted but it requires heat. “Borax” for example is loaded with water, heat it to 600 degrees and you get water + anhydrous borax.
Whatever happened to all this “moon-dirt frozen water-slurry mixture,” everyone had their greedy little eyes on?
Off-planet:
Any progress on “chlorates & Mars?”
Mike Borgelt: I will beg to differ. Just because a water molecule got incorporated into the crystal structure of a mineral does not leave water behind. It now has to be processed out. And while that can be done, it is not as simply as purifying ice.
Mike Borgett: Note that Clementine, Lunar Prospector, and Chandrayaan-1 all found evidence of hydrogen. None of it proved the existence of water. All of it suggested the presence of water.
The first assumption, especially at the poles, was ice in the permanently shadowed craters. My point is that this assumption is increasingly looking to be wrong.
And if the planetary community had tried to sell an aggressive space program to the Moon to find “hydrated minerals”, I can promise you it would not have flown.
I think maybe there is a language barrier or terminology confusion. The link won’t open on my system but I run uber security and it’s a Chinese link.
Hydrate -a substance that contains water or its constituent elements.
Anhydrous – contains no water.
You can detect hydrogen, but it’s not necessarily a hydrate or ice like they thought was at the south pole. As wayne posts you don’t always easily get water from hydrates.
Ah…(again, just some guy on the internet)
…
“up to 6 molecules of crystalline water,” (per mineral unit,) in the sample we’re discussing. And they are claiming 41% wt. by volume of water.
To extend my terrestrial borax example, “borax-decahydrate” (something like that) has a bit of water therein, and its energy intensive to turn into liquid water.
(we’re going to need a nuclear reactor, on the Moon, for process-steam, for all sorts of chemistry)
“Evidence of a hydrated mineral enriched
in Water & Ammonium Molecules” (July 16, 2024
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41550-024-02306-8
Detection of water itself wasn’t possible with Clementine’s sensor but hydrogen is a strong indication of water. Unless you think the hydrogen is in the from of hydrocarbons which is also possible as the theory AFAIK is that the lunar water came from comet impacts – you know – the black tarry stuff that some seem to be covered with. Carbon would be good also.
I don’t think anyone expected that sheets of ice would be found. More like small grains mixed up with regolith. The Chinese findings may upset that theory somewhat.
I also remember that before the Apollo landings there was hope of water tied up in hydrated minerals and it was thought that this would be good as it would be easy to extract. Apollo was a disappointment in that respect but the landings were all in equatorial regions as Apollo had no capability to go to the poles. That requires a two week stay on the surface or in lunar orbit.
Nukes on the Moon would be good but some crater rims near the pole do have perpetual sunlight which means solar power is possible.
Robert, please note correct spelling of my name.
Mike Borgelt: Spelling corrected. Sorry about that.
I’ve been following this story from day one, and the planetary community spent a lot of time selling the idea that there might be actual ice — “sheets of ice” — in those permanently shadowed craters. I was cool with that possibility until we started to get evidence suggesting otherwise.
Why no oxygen detector of some type?
With just two molecules in water you would think they would want to detect both.
There’s plenty of oxygen on the moon, in the form of oxygenated lunar rocks.