The Fact and Fiction of the NASA EmDrive Paper Leak
A NASA paper outlining work that appears to substantiate the EmDrive concept that involves the production of a thrust in a way that violates the laws of physics was leaked last week, and this story tries to figure out what has been learned.
To me, the key is this paragraph:
In essence, the NASA EmDrive in the paper consists of a closed copper cone, the inside of which is being bombarded with microwaves. To test the EmDrive, the researchers powered it with 40, 60, and 80 watts and found that it generated up to 58, 128, and 119 micronewtons of thrust, respectively. Given that this “anomaly” was still observed by White and his colleagues after accounting for error, this suggests that the results of the experiment show an EmDrive is indeed possible.
Based on these results, the researchers estimated that their contraption would be capable of generating approximately 1.2 millinewtons of thrust per kilowatt were they to scale up the power input. To put this in perspective, the Hall thruster—one of the most powerful in development and powered by ejecting plasma—generates about 60 millinewtons of thrust per kilowatt. [emphasis mine]
Interestingly , the article did not comment on how little thrust this EmDrive test produced. This tiny amount, however, to me suggests strongly that what they are measuring is some outside force acting on the drive that they have missed that would invalidate all the theories listed in the article. And even if the thrust drive does prove a new component of fundamental physics, as suggested in the article, the system simply doesn’t appear to produce enough thrust to make it practical.
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A NASA paper outlining work that appears to substantiate the EmDrive concept that involves the production of a thrust in a way that violates the laws of physics was leaked last week, and this story tries to figure out what has been learned.
To me, the key is this paragraph:
In essence, the NASA EmDrive in the paper consists of a closed copper cone, the inside of which is being bombarded with microwaves. To test the EmDrive, the researchers powered it with 40, 60, and 80 watts and found that it generated up to 58, 128, and 119 micronewtons of thrust, respectively. Given that this “anomaly” was still observed by White and his colleagues after accounting for error, this suggests that the results of the experiment show an EmDrive is indeed possible.
Based on these results, the researchers estimated that their contraption would be capable of generating approximately 1.2 millinewtons of thrust per kilowatt were they to scale up the power input. To put this in perspective, the Hall thruster—one of the most powerful in development and powered by ejecting plasma—generates about 60 millinewtons of thrust per kilowatt. [emphasis mine]
Interestingly , the article did not comment on how little thrust this EmDrive test produced. This tiny amount, however, to me suggests strongly that what they are measuring is some outside force acting on the drive that they have missed that would invalidate all the theories listed in the article. And even if the thrust drive does prove a new component of fundamental physics, as suggested in the article, the system simply doesn’t appear to produce enough thrust to make it practical.
Readers!
Please consider supporting my work here at Behind the Black. Your support allows me the freedom and ability to analyze objectively the ongoing renaissance in space, as well as the cultural changes -- for good or ill -- that are happening across America. Fourteen years ago I wrote that SLS and Orion were a bad ideas, a waste of money, would be years behind schedule, and better replaced by commercial private enterprise. Only now does it appear that Washington might finally recognize this reality.
In 2020 when the world panicked over COVID I wrote that the panic was unnecessary, that the virus was apparently simply a variation of the flu, that masks were not simply pointless but if worn incorrectly were a health threat, that the lockdowns were a disaster and did nothing to stop the spread of COVID. Only in the past year have some of our so-called experts in the health field have begun to recognize these facts.
Your help allows me to do this kind of intelligent analysis. I take no advertising or sponsors, so my reporting isn't influenced by donations by established space or drug companies. Instead, I rely entirely on donations and subscriptions from my readers, which gives me the freedom to write what I think, unencumbered by outside influences.
You can support me either by giving a one-time contribution or a regular subscription. There are four ways of doing so:
1. Zelle: This is the only internet method that charges no fees. All you have to do is use the Zelle link at your internet bank and give my name and email address (zimmerman at nasw dot org). What you donate is what I get.
2. Patreon: Go to my website there and pick one of five monthly subscription amounts, or by making a one-time donation.
3. A Paypal Donation or subscription:
4. Donate by check, payable to Robert Zimmerman and mailed to
Behind The Black
c/o Robert Zimmerman
P.O.Box 1262
Cortaro, AZ 85652
You can also support me by buying one of my books, as noted in the boxes interspersed throughout the webpage or shown in the menu above.
If this is a real phenomenon could these be used in place of reaction control wheels (which seem to be forever breaking down)? Would they produce enough thrust for this purpose?
http://physicsfromtheedge.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/we-learn-by-doing-mihsc-emdrive.html
Even if the EM drive is only producing 2% of the thrust of a hall drive, it doesn’t need mass. That is a big deal. Station keeping, exploration, all open up.
You should check out the physics from the edge web site. Its interesting that he has developed a theory that flushes dark matter and seems to predict what the em drive is doing…
Bendan: Also a flash-light (or a laser) produce (very small) thrust and does not propellant. Under ideal condition you can produce 1 Newton thrust by application of 300 MW (or 1 Milli-Newton by 300 KW, or 1 Micro-Newton by 300 W). So EM drive looks not very strange.
An 11 x 11 meter solar panel that could generate 1.5kW of power for a scaled up engine in the example would produce about 1mN of force from the solar wind alone creating a vector against, or entirely canceling out the engine thrust.
Alex –
True. But the photon thrust is 360 times less that the measured output here. And this is with an experimental device. That is a big deal.
I’ve been following McCulloch’s work and its completely in keeping with what my college relativistic physics prof taught – that inertia is approaches infinity at light speed, and that mass becoming infinite as it approaches the speed of light is a myth. That McCulloch has placed this concept in a theory that seems to explain concepts from the EM drive to being able to describe galactic movements without the need for dark matter is actually an even bigger deal. That the EM drive can be predicted with his theory seems to give it credence.
That said, people keep trying to kill off the EM drive, and it hasn’t happened yet. Cold fusion was killed off much faster. I say we give it time and see what happens.
Brendan: Okay, 360-times is quite a lot, it requires an explanation.