Cosmologists: “We are STILL right! Dark energy does exist!”
The scientific method, according to some cosmologists
The uncertainty of science: In two somewhat self-righteous press releases today from two different academic organizations, scientists who have been for three decades touting the somewhat uncertain evidence that the expansion of the universe is accelerating, thus requiring the ad hoc creation of something they label “dark energy” to explain it, insisted that their theory is still right despite publication of a paper last year that said their evidence was weak and unconvincing.
The headlines of the first press release is especially insulting to the very concept of the scientific method:
- Royal Astronomical Society: ‘Crisis averted’ as experts confirm universe’s expansion IS accelerating
- University of Southhampton: Universe expansion still accelerating say astronomers
Both press releases have an arrogant attitude to those questioning the theory of dark energy, but the first is truly egregious. It is filled with bombastic claims, such as calling it “a crisis” for anyone to dare question the theory. It also uses a reliance on authority to justify its position (“The researchers … include two Nobel Laureates and represent institutions worldwide”). And finally, it demands that such questioning end, so “we can get back to trying to understand what this dark energy actually is, rather than wondering if it exists at all.”
The 2025 study that questioned the existence of dark energy — claiming the universe’s expansion rate was not accelerating — was actually part of a string of similar results. It did not occur in a vacuum, and actually stemmed from the overall uncertainty of the original supernova data.
Scientists in the 1990s had begun by assuming the brightness of a certain type of supernova is always the same, no matter when or where it happened. They then measured such supernovae in the early universe and found their brightness suggested the universe was expanding faster than predicted.
Since then, multiple studies have noted the weakness of that basic assumption. We don’t know enough about these supernovae, nor do we know enough about the environment in which they occur in the early universe.
The bottom line: The theory of dark energy might fit the facts as we have them now, but those facts remain uncertain and open to doubt. It is perfectly reasonable to question those facts, and to try to stifle that questioning violates the very fundamentals of the scientific method, which demands you question everything, that you search for truth wherever it may lead.
Sadly, this pattern of arrogance by cosmologists is not new. It has grated on my nerves since my first interview with a cosmologist in 1995, when she got insulted and huffy because I dared ask her some tough questions. This arrogance has gotten so bad that in 2022 24 scientists signed a petition protesting the censorship of their work for questioning the Big Bang theory.
Meanwhile, the data remains uncertain and actually contradictory. One set of data says the Hubble constant (the expansion rate) is one number, while another equally trustworthy data set says the constant is another number. And almost a decade of intense research has failed to resolve the conflict.
This new work might have proven the dark energy theory is still viable, but the press releases do little to convince anyone.
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I am actually hoping they are right…. perhaps some new physics to open up some type of field-effect drives.
I would LOVE to witness a real FTL ship fly. I pray for the day. Its really humanities only hope.
But I have to ask.
Why does Dark energy ONLY push galaxies apart? Why does it NOT push all matter apart? Even at the atomic level.
In the end it might just be an effect of the void/space itself and not an actual energy.
Dark energy pushes everything apart, not just galaxies. The Hubble constant is actually an expression of the expansion rate of the universe itself, the space in which all galaxies and stars reside. Dark energy simply attempts to explain the cause for the acceleration of that rate in the early universe.
I know what your saying.
But all other forms of energy effect everything down to the sud atomic scale. Except Dark Energy which is powerful enough to push galaxies apart but cant stop the accumulation of mater into planets and more.
Its stronger than gravity.
It is also not measurable on the micro scale like all other energies.
pzatchok: But the universe’s expansion is not “pushing galaxies apart.” It is expanding the space in which they occupy. And “dark energy” is merely theorized as an extra component that is simply accelerating that expansion in the early universe.
In this theory, gravity functions normally within that 3D space, pulling masses together. The issue is that this 3D space over time is expanding. Note however that the rate of expansion is far smaller than the rate in which individual objects consolidate and accrete, which allows for stars and galaxies to form.
If we are going to question modern cosmology, we must at least question it correctly. Don’t make up strawman objections and use them to disprove things.
Dark energy is pushing things apart? Antigravity?
Dark matter was created from nothing (literally) to explain the missing mass of the other 95% of the universe. And how galaxies, which do not conform to Newtonian physics of planetary motion, can hold together when the stars on the outside of the galaxy travel just as fast or faster than the stars on the inside of the galaxy?
Or better yet, this is how Wikipedia explains it.
“The arms of spiral galaxies rotate around their galactic center. The luminous mass density of a spiral galaxy decreases as one goes from the center to the outskirts. If luminous mass were all the matter, then the galaxy can be modelled as a point mass in the centre and test masses orbiting around it, similar to the Solar System.[c] From Kepler’s Third Law, it is expected that the rotation velocities will decrease with distance from the center, similar to the Solar System. This is not observed.[69] Instead, the galaxy rotation curve remains flat or even increases as distance from the center increases.
If Kepler’s laws are correct, then the obvious way to resolve this discrepancy is to conclude the mass distribution in spiral galaxies is not similar to that of the Solar System. In particular, there may be a lot of non-luminous matter (dark matter) in the outskirts of the galaxy.“
Then comes dark energy, which you also can’t see, hear, taste, smell, or touch it… that has the reverse component to dark matter. not to hold things together but to push things apart… Again Wikipedia.
“dark energy is a proposed form of energy that affects the universe on its largest scales. Its primary effect is to drive the accelerating expansion of the universe. It also slows the rate of structure formation.[1] Assuming that the lambda-CDM model of cosmology is correct,[2] dark energy dominates the universe, contributing 68% of the total mass-energy in the present-day observable universe while dark matter and ordinary (baryonic) matter contribute 27% and 5%, respectively“
To me it appears the gravitational force is greater than expansion rate by evidence of galaxy collisions everywhere you look. Untell they have the information and the science that fits observation with a correct and reproducible explanation… The current theory of invisible matter and energy is doctorate mumbo-jumbo for turtles all the way down.
OK, what is the Speed of Dark?
The cosmos seems actively opposed to spaceflight
With inflation, the whole bloody universe can go FTL, but begrudges us having ships that can go superluminal–it should be the other way around.
At the smallest scale with zero point, or on a stellar scale with fusion, the universe is abundant with energy that we just can’t get too.
Anti-gravity is allowed at large scales, but not flying cars.
Phooey
I find the phrase ‘stretched out the heavens’ in English Standard Version of the Old Testament a curious parallel to ‘dark energy’ for One who ‘upholds the universe’.
Just an observation of a simple mind. Humbly offered as food for thought.
From Robert’s post: “Since then, multiple studies have noted the weakness of that basic assumption. We don’t know enough about these supernovae, nor do we know enough about the environment in which they occur in the early universe.”
This is the importance of listing all the assumptions. It is equally important to remember that these conclusions are based upon assumptions. There are several reasons why there is over-certainty in science, and dark energy is suffering from this over-certainty disorder. The love of theory is the root of all evil, and some scientists have a love of their own theories. Dark matter and dark energy are two, because these scientists have no other explanation for what they have observed. A lack of alternate hypotheses does not prove the popular hypothesis is correct.
One of the dangers of the love of theory is that scientists may consciously or unconsciously bias their experiments, reasoning, or observations. There is great danger that this could happen or has happened to astronomy and astrophysics.
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Max,
The explanation you quoted from Wikipedia has some simplifications that can mislead. The point-mass model only works for anything orbiting outside the galaxy, and also only if the masses of the stars are uniformly distributed, as opposed to spiral arms. To model the rotations of the stars within the galaxy, when there are stars farther out from the stars whose rotations are being modeled, the effect of gravity from those farther stars must also be considered, and the point-mass model falls apart. This means that Kepler’s laws of planetary motion is inappropriate for the stars within the galaxy.
Inside a galaxy of uniform density, gravity does not decrease by the square of the distance from the center. It increases linearly with distance. At the center of the galaxy, the effects of all the stars around the central stars cancel each other out, and the central stars do not orbit a hypothetical point-mass but travel in straight lines, except as affected by the other nearby central stars. This changes everything. Fortunately, the astronomers know all this, but the point is that the astronomers believe the effects on the orbits of these stars still should not be what they have observed.
Either the observations are misleading, or gravity does not work as expected on large scales, or an as-yet undiscovered force acts on large scales but is not well observed on small scales (e.g. gravity has very little effect at the atomic scale, but other forces are much stronger), or there is an undiscovered phenomenon, such as a matter so dark that we have yet to detect it, or some other explanation must be discovered.
Just as the physicists of the nineteenth century were certain that there was an undetected aether that was absolutely necessary for radio waves and light waves to travel through — because waves do not exist unless there is a medium to travel through — modern scientists have concluded that there is an undetected dark matter and another undetected dark energy that are absolutely necessary for the observations that they have made.
We can’t see, hear, taste, smell, or touch any energy,* either, but we have determined their existences by observation, deduction, and definition. Thus, astronomers have observed an unexpected phenomena, deduced their cause, and defined them as undetected energy or mass.
As you quoted from Wikipedia:
This is not antigravity, nor is it a force acting on matter. It is related to the expansion of the structure, or aether, or balloon-surface of the universe. It is not an action on the matter within the universe, it is the expansion of the universe itself. The forces within the nucleus of atoms prevent the atoms from expanding with the expansion of the universe, and the forces of gravity (which is a curvature of space-time, not really a force — if we believe other sources, and for this discussion that definition would be counterproductive) prevent stars, planets, solar systems, galaxies and galactic clusters from expanding with the expansion of the universe. The different clusters may separate from each other, spreading apart over time, but the clusters remain clusters.
Parenthetically, this expansion, if it is fast enough, can make the matter in one part of the universe fly apart from the mass in a far-away part of the universe (let’s call it the other side, whatever that means in a universe that curves onto itself) at a rate faster than the speed of light. Neither of the two masses travels anywhere near the speed of light, but the space between the two masses can expand at a rate so fast that light from one mass cannot reach the other mass, no matter how long the light travels.
It is caused by the expansion of the universe, similar to the rate at which a balloon is inflated.
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* Although: apparently a person can determine whether a 9-volt battery still has an energy charge by toughing it to his tongue — I saw it done just the other day — so I may have to modify my claim that we “can’t taste” energy.
Well said Edward, with your usual thoroughness. I wouldn’t have a hope at being as precise and thoughtful with my explanation as you were with yours. Well done.
As for the 9 V battery, I always had a nearly dead 9 V for my grandchildren… They couldn’t get enough and preferred it to the pacifier.
MDN posted Sabine Hossenfelder, in which I recommend… She’s very thorough about all the new theories to support an old theory of dark matter that’s falling apart.
A different person talking about how the infrared telescope is changing everything we thought we knew.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5aeidFfWVY
I found it fascinating that she mentions a theory that I’ve long-held on this site that the “red shift” could be caused by dust that blocks out the smaller wavelength of light from reaching us. The longer wavelength in the red spectrum passes around the dust making the objects appear totally red. I called it filtered light. (The frequency of light is unaffected by distance unless traveling through a magnetic field, time distortion, caused by gravity distortion… not being emitted traveling towards us or away from us, that only changes it’s brightness)
Dark energy and dark matter are theories plucked from the nether regions of confused and baffled cosmologists.
I am fond of saying that dark energy and dark matter are God.
The more applicable point of this post to us here is that censorship of even unpopular views is not good. Here on Behind the Black there are often expressed opinions that I find ridiculous. AND understand that the price of shutting down those opinions would be the loss of the very crosschecking required to find new methods and underlying facts.
Freedom of expression has a price that is lower than lack of freedom of expression.
“AND understand that the price of shutting down those opinions . . . ”
One of the values of freedom of expression is that some prove that a tongue, can also be a shovel. Some ideas just bury themselves.
Sabine Hossenfelder just posted a video yesterday with a similar take wrt recent science around Dark Matter. She uses the BS word liberally, so do not watch if this might offend you. However that is the extent of her sauciness and I appreciate her critical reviews of scientific research much as I do Bob’s on BtB.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Wdf5_vad9gM&ra=m
My editorial mark up on the very last sentence,
“This new work might have proven the dark energy theory is still viable, but the press releases should do little to convince anyone.”
I’ve always appreciated Richard Feynman’s statement that “I would rather have questions that can’t be answered, than answers that can’t be questioned.”
N.B. – AI pooh-poohed that he said these words in the exact syntax written. But another AI stated that the first AI was wrong. So there.
Finally, let’s parse one of Bob Z’s statements. “The 2025 study that questioned the existence of dark energy — claiming the universe’s expansion rate was not accelerating — was actually part of a string of similar results. It did not occur in a vacuum, and actually stemmed from the overall uncertainty of the original supernova data.”
If we speciously and selectively break it down to “… the existence of dark energy… did not occur in a vacuum,” Leading us to conjecture that if dark energy does not exist in a vacuum, then where does it occur, and why would it be existing in the space of our universe?!
And finally, it demands that such questioning end, so “we can get back to trying to understand what this
dark energyphlogiston actually is, rather than wondering if it exists at all.”FIFY
The Cosmological Constant Problem
“The Vacuum Catastrophe”
Dark Energy, Quantum Field Theory & General Relativity
link text
(49:10)
“”Vacuum energy density” refers to the intrinsic energy present in empty space, arising from quantum fluctuations even when no particles are present. It is a special case of zero-point energy, which is the lowest possible energy of a quantum system. In cosmology, this energy is closely associated with the cosmological constant and dark energy.”
“Quantum field theory (QTF) predicts an enormously high vacuum energy density, 120 orders of magnitude higher than General Relativity would indicate with cosmological observation.
How can two of our most successful theories of reality vary so much?