CDC admits the uselessness of masks against COVID-19


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In issuing its guidelines for dealing with the smoke coming from the numerous forest fires in California, the CDC on August 30th admitted the complete uselessness of masks in stopping the coronavirus.

From the CDC:

Cloth masks that are used to slow the spread of COVID-19 offer little protection against wildfire smoke. They do not catch small particles found in wildfire smoke that can harm your health.

As the author at the first link above notes,

Let’s take a quick look at this info through the lens of actual science. They just told us that smoke particulates are too small to be stopped by a cloth mask. While N95 masks will protect up to 95% of particles, down to .1 microns in size, a quick Google search will tell us that smoke particles and debris are usually .4 to .7 microns in size. According to the CDC, cloth masks are not effective in stopping materials that size.

Another quick Google search will tell us that the Wuhan Virus is .12 microns in size, about a quarter in size of the smoke and fire debris particulate. Even if we factor for the “respiratory droplets” that are allegedly to blame for the spread of coronavirus, those droplets are as small as .5 microns, or as small or smaller than smoke and fire debris particulate. These factors and figures aren’t hidden in some CDC vault that only their scientists are capable of accessing. Yet another quick Google search will show these figures within seconds.

The masks you are using can’t protect you, period. They are nothing more than an empty feel-good gesture imposed for political reasons. Worse, their improper use, something that people are doing routinely, will increase the chances of infection from all kinds of pathogens, including COVID-19.

Stop wearing these idiotic things. And if anyone challenges you, tell them you don’t wear it for justified medical reasons. Most local rules allow for this exemption, and do not require any explanation. Use it. Stop being a sheep to stupidity.

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35 comments

  • Marcus

    If I’m in a store or other place of business and someone walks in that has the coronavirus, I would prefer for them to be wearing a mask over their nose and mouth. If they cough or sneeze, the mask will capture some of the material they eject and prevent the rest from traveling as far/as fast as it would otherwise, similar to sneezing or coughing into a handkerchief. If they wear a mask or utilize a handkerchief, I believe I would be less likely to catch the virus from them. I do not know of a way to require that people with the coronavirus always cough or sneeze into a mask or handkerchief when they are in a public indoor location without requiring that masks be warn by everyone in those locations. I don’t believe that wearing a mask will protect me (at least not much), but I believe that if those with the virus are wearing them when they are public, I will be less likely to catch the virus from them. I’d love to hear objections. :)

    Please do not suggest that only those with the virus should be required to wear a mask. I agree it would be as effective as everyone wearing one, but then you could also just require those with the virus to stay home. If people could/would successfully sort themselves as having/not having the virus, the pandemic would have been gone long ago.

  • TJ Hessmon.

    N-95 masks are only capable of blocking particles 5 microns in size (usual water droplets), A 1 micron particle will pass straight through an N95 mask. Viruses are generally 0.7 microns in size in and of themselves, but generally are transferred from human to human in droplets (5 microns in size), hence the use of N95 masks to guard against the transfer

    Weave cloth is capable of 20 micron filtering at best, its intent is not for inhalation filtering, its for expulsion filtering, and Yes 5 micron droplets will pass through a 20 micron cloth mask

    Coffee filters are filter particles of about 10 microns in size. They would be more effective than a cloth mask, but would still allow 5 micron particles to pass.

    Smoke as you have indicated is below 1 micron in particulate size, therefore it takes a far more capable filter to capture such particle size, which is why firefighters use a self contained breathing apparatus (absent contact with the external air source).

    Statistically speaking, ones chance of becoming involved with someone who is carrying SARS-CoV-2 is less than one in then thousand. Further the virus will weaken over time, just like anything that replicates (think copy machine) … about the 100 thousandth copy, things start looking ragged… The same is true of viruses as the multiply and spread, they become weaker and weaker. People will spread SARS-CoV-2 over the coming months but it will be difficult to distinguish those cases from the flu, and their effects will be about as detrimental to the public. I know of COPD patients who have gotten over SARS-CoV-2 without hospitalization.

    Masks make people feel better, however they are hot, they expose persons to higher levels of carbon monoxide, and most don’t actually seal around peoples faces, especially with facial hair. Therefore, when such people breath or sneeze. they are allowing in particles far larger than 5 microns. In the perfect world, masks properly fitted and worn would provide adequate protection from the risk of inhaling particles for to which they are certified to guard against. But the general public is not a perfect world, therefore in that situation, masks are far less effective, and with the risk being 10k to 1, and with the virus weakening, the cause for concern about virus spread is no longer as critical as it once was.

    Knowing those conditions, masks should at best be voluntary. Businesses force them to cover their liability, as advised by their legal teams. Expect businesses to force the use of masks far past any CDC requirement to do such, and most likely until the CDC states immunization is not only available but implemented to a status of 70+ percent.

  • Marcus

    Further thoughts (not sure why I’m wading into this)…

    I live in Texas and don’t feel like our governor put the mask requirement in place as a power grab. We had a spike in cases a month or two back and I believe our governor took action because he didn’t want the Texas economy to lose further ground. He shut down (or restricted) the bars again and he put in place the mask requirement. Since then our case rate has dropped. Maybe it was his action with the bars or maybe it was the masks or perhaps something completely unrelated and the cases would have dropped on their own (which is what I suspect). It would have been nice to have had a scientific study to test all of the possible responses, but that wasn’t practical and I don’t blame our governor for taking what seem like common sense responses when there is a lack of solid information.

    Moving on to another thought…
    If there is a fire in my house and I can’t leave immediately (maybe I have to get my kids). I’m going to stay low to the floor and put my shirt or other cloth over my nose and mouth. It may not add much protection, but a few seconds will make a difference. Similarly, if everyone wearing masks reduces the rate of transmission of the virus only a small amount, it could make a substantial difference in the trajectory of the virus.

    Final thought…
    I actually think it is helpful when people wear their masks around their chins rather than not wearing them at all. Obviously if that person has the virus, it’s no help. But I think just the fact that everyone is wearing one, whether properly or not makes it more likely that a person with the virus will decide to wear a mask. And if that person has any suspicion that they have the virus, I suspect they will wear it properly. (I don’t feel strongly about this whole opinion)

  • Andrew _W

    Good comments Marcus.
    Another point is that water droplets might stick to a mask when smoke wouldn’t.

  • Andrew _W

    TJ Hessmon “as they multiply and spread they become weaker and weaker”.

    No, in IT terms DNA/RNA is digital. While viruses can become less deadly it’s though the process of natural selection, the less deadly strains survive better by not quickly killing their host.

  • wayne

    “respiratory droplets”
    –sounds scientific, but a fake phrase that means nothing.

    thematically related….

    Michael Malice: The Media’s ‘Facts vs Truth’ Manipulation
    Stu Does America February 2020
    https://youtu.be/E3FBGsDKWgg
    2:30

  • Andrew_W

    “respiratory droplets”
    –sounds scientific, but a fake phrase that means nothing.

    Great! Where’s your evidence that it “means nothing”?

    Perhaps it’s your claim that “means nothing” – which is what I suspect.

  • Edward

    TJ Hessmon wrote: “Masks make people feel better,

    They certainly make Marcus feel better. They give him a false sense of security while the rest of us are supposed to expose ourselves to contamination for hours on end. It is OK for the rest of us to become ill just so long as he feels good. Marcus has been further victimized by our fearful leaders; he just does not realize it, and maybe he never will.

    Feeling better is not the goal. The goal is being healthier. The goal is to not destroy more lives than were saved but to save lives with the least collateral damage as possible. Rather than saving lives, our fearful leaders’s reactions have prolonged suffering, caused serious collateral health damage, and resulted in serious economic, health, and social damage. How many people have had their dreams destroyed in the past six months or have had to replan their lives or livelihoods? Were these prices worth the lives saved? Were there any saved lives? Now that it has lasted six months, we have three times more Wuhan flu deaths reported than we were supposed to have had by imposing this Great Oppression for three weeks, and almost twice as many than expected if we didn’t impose it at all.

    Everyone’s life has been disrupted, but in other flu outbreaks they weren’t. The health of everyone else has been compromised, all the way from the misuse of masks, which makes them sources of infection and other health problems, to the shutdown of non-Wuhan care at hospitals, perhaps the worst compromise to everyone’s health. The misuse of masks and their mandated use certainly explains the expansion in infections measured and the bump in deaths recorded in timing with the imposed mandates. Layoffs at hospitals, clinics, doctor offices, dentists, and other healthcare facilities demonstrates the loss of healthcare in America.

    The loss of jobs disrupts the very health insurance that people need in order to afford many healthcare services.

    Obamacare has been such a disaster that it cannot handle a small outbreak of a not-so-serious flu. It is so unable to handle it that seven states thought it was better to send Wuhan ailing patients into nursing homes, homes of the most vulnerable — the aged who already suffer from various morbidities. The failure of Obamacare is more than just lost health but a lost economy, lost livelihoods, and lost societal securities What a cluster bleep.

  • Chris

    I believe I have noted this multiple times:

    From CDC Policy Review Vol 26 No 5 May 2020

    Nonpharmaceutical Measures for Pandemic Influenza in Nonhealthcare Settings—Personal Protective and Environmental Measures

    https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article
    This has 20 citations

    Face Masks

    Thumbnail of Meta-analysis of risk ratios for the effect of face mask use with or without enhanced hand hygiene on laboratory-confirmed influenza from 10 randomized controlled trials with >6,500 participants. A) Face mask use alone; B) face mask and hand hygiene; C) face mask with or without hand hygiene. Pooled estimates were not made if there was high heterogeneity (I2 >75%). Squares indicate risk ratio for each of the included studies, horizontal lines indicate 95% CIs, dashed vertical
    Figure 2. Meta-analysis of risk ratios for the effect of face mask use with or without enhanced hand hygiene on laboratory-confirmed influenza from 10 randomized controlled trials with >6,500 participants. A) Face mask…
    In our systematic review, we identified 10 RCTs that reported estimates of the effectiveness of face masks in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the community from literature published during 1946–July 27, 2018. In pooled analysis, we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks (RR 0.78, 95% CI 0.51–1.20; I2 = 30%, p = 0.25) (Figure 2). One study evaluated the use of masks among pilgrims from Australia during the Hajj pilgrimage and reported no major difference in the risk for laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infection in the control or mask group (33). Two studies in university settings assessed the effectiveness of face masks for primary protection by monitoring the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza among student hall residents for 5 months (9,10). The overall reduction in ILI or laboratory-confirmed influenza cases in the face mask group was not significant in either studies (9,10). Study designs in the 7 household studies were slightly different: 1 study provided face masks and P2 respirators for household contacts only (34), another study evaluated face mask use as a source control for infected persons only (35), and the remaining studies provided masks for the infected persons as well as their close contacts (11–13,15,17). None of the household studies reported a significant reduction in secondary laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the face mask group (11–13,15,17,34,35). Most studies were underpowered because of limited sample size, and some studies also reported suboptimal adherence in the face mask group.

    Disposable medical masks (also known as surgical masks) are loose-fitting devices that were designed to be worn by medical personnel to protect accidental contamination of patient wounds, and to protect the wearer against splashes or sprays of bodily fluids (36). There is limited evidence for their effectiveness in preventing influenza virus transmission either when worn by the infected person for source control or when worn by uninfected persons to reduce exposure. Our systematic review found no significant effect of face masks on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza.

  • wayne

    Edward/Chris–
    Good stuff!

  • Cotour

    Oh boy, here we go:

    https://nypost.com/2020/09/11/chinese-virologist-says-she-has-proof-covid-19-was-made-in-wuhan-lab/

    World war 111 already started and we only suspected it. If true and if released purposefully now we know it.

    “A Chinese virologist who has reportedly been in hiding for fear of her safety has stepped out into the public eye again to make the explosive claim that she has the scientific evidence to prove COVID-19 was man-made in a lab in China.”

    I have reasonably surmised that the Covid 19 virus was being “Looked” into by the Wu Han lab and assumed it escaped into the world due to improper security. Wet Market? Unlikely IMO. I have not been able to establish, and I obviously have limited access to the real information that must exist as opposed to what is presented in the media, that Covid 19 was man made. But this woman who worked at the lab claims different, she says it was man made. Man made for what purpose?

    The story however does not say whether it was released as a function of strategy, or as a function of incompetence? Incompetence is always a good bet, but strategy is also not out of the realm of possibility. The Chinese just like the Democrat leadership will do anything to further retain or acquire power.

    Information? Or disinformation?

  • Cotour

    AN IMPORTANT VITAMIN D3 V COVID STUDY REVEIEWED BY DR. CAMPBELL. AND HE IS IMPRESSED

    A well done study in Spain reveals that taking Vitamin D3 (Calcifediaol (?) improves drastically the result for people who have Covid 19. (Better to have it in your blood stream than not for many reasons, including your resistance to Covid 19)

    https://youtu.be/V8Ks9fUh2k8

    And Dr. Campbell openly wonders why the likes of the W.H.O. and the CDC are not concentrating on such low cost therapies as Vitamin D3 (And Hydroxychloroquine) and are concentrating on the more expensive types? I wonder? (NOT) Business is business and they know where their bread is buttered.

    So do not trust the media nor the W.H.O. or the CDC in general, do your own research as best as you can, wash your hands, don’t touch your nose or eyes, generally stay away from others, and wear a mask if you are in close quarters situations that may “require” them for the various reasons that may or may not exist. Be reasonable.

    And don’t forget, take your Vitamin D3 if you think it a benefit based on your own research.

  • Cotour

    Dr. Campbell on the research in that supports the efficacy of “Correct Dose” Hydroxychloroquine V Covid 19.

    https://youtu.be/2uzXHnUViro

    Dr. Campbell is convinced that the Hydroxychloroquine is effective based on these reliable studies and that the controversy that has surrounded it is unfounded and the dose given is very important.

    And once again, Hydroxychloroquine is extremely low cost.

  • Andrew_W

    Chris, one of the authors of the study you cite is Benjamin j Cowling, he’s also an author of this study, published April 2020:
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2

    We identified seasonal human coronaviruses, influenza viruses and rhinoviruses in exhaled breath and coughs of children and adults with acute respiratory illness. Surgical face masks significantly reduced detection of influenza virus RNA in respiratory droplets and coronavirus RNA in aerosols, with a trend toward reduced detection of coronavirus RNA in respiratory droplets. Our results indicate that surgical face masks could prevent transmission of human coronaviruses and influenza viruses from symptomatic individuals. . .

    . . . We detected coronavirus in respiratory droplets and aerosols in 3 of 10 (30%) and 4 of 10 (40%) of the samples collected without face masks, respectively, but did not detect any virus in respiratory droplets or aerosols collected from participants wearing face masks, this difference was significant in aerosols and showed a trend toward reduced detection in respiratory droplets (Table 1b). For influenza virus, we detected virus in 6 of 23 (26%) and 8 of 23 (35%) of the respiratory droplet and aerosol samples collected without face masks, respectively. There was a significant reduction by wearing face masks to 1 of 27 (4%) in detection of influenza virus in respiratory droplets, but no significant reduction in detection in aerosols (Table 1b).

    Puzzling.

  • wayne

    Max-
    Good stuff.
    Steven Crowder showed that Scooby Doo video on one of his shows last week.

  • Cotour

    I THINK IT IS BECOMING ABUNDANTLY CLEAR.

    The Democrat agenda for 2020:

    Dems: 16 year old’s to vote
    Dems: End the electoral college and “Correcting” the Constitution.
    Dems: In California, reduce penalties for pedophilia.
    Dems: Defund the police. Ladies, how safe does that make you feel?
    Dems: Irrational bail reform. Release violent criminals from jail solely based on their skin color, resulting in ever rising violent gun crime and murder.
    Dems: ANTIFA and Angela Davis endorse Joe Biden. A. Davis: Marxist: “Joe will be easy to push further Left”.
    Dems: The entire Mueller team, all Democrats, wipe their phones clean. No problem.
    Dems: Supporting and promoting rioting, making excuses for ANTIFA and BLM’s looting related to need, and again promoting violence.
    Dems: Late term and post birth abortion.
    Dems: End Israel. I still do not understand how any American Jew can call themselves a Democrat.
    Dems: Empower Iran with nukes, pay Iran $150 billion so they can develop them + $1.8 billion in cash delivered under cover of darkness.
    Dems: The Green New Deal and the required destruction of the U.S. and the world economy.
    Dems: Promote “Social Justice” which is Subjective justice, Lord Of The Fly’s / Banana republic style. Rational law and justice is Objective.
    Dems: All major cities controlled by Democrats are all out of control and crime ridden with murderous street gangs taking them over.
    Dems: No borders, anyone can enter the United States and demand healthcare, shelter and government money.
    Dems: Supporting the efforts of ANTIFA and BLM by their own testimony are fully based in Marxist doctrine and are devoted to destroying America.
    Dems: Most all media and Social media is Liberal and Leftist oriented and are actively subverting their platforms to support these Democrat agendas.
    Dems: The 2020 Democrat candidates son has multi billion dollar ties to China acquired through his fathers political position.
    Dems: The 2020 Democrat candidates son has multi million dollar ties to Ukraine acquired through his fathers political position and influence.
    Dems: Destroy the First Amendment and the Second Amendment.
    Dems: Destroy the family structure and replace it with the government. Remember, “It Takes A Village”. Marxism 101.
    Dems: The Democrat “Progressive” agenda where up is down, right is wrong and good is bad. And then they tell you you are crazy. Gas Lighting.
    Dems: George Soros funds much of this and installs Leftist players in local government to implement this “Progressive” chaos that makes no sense to you.

    All of these efforts are about the destabilization of the country through Marxist psychological techniques of manipulation. That is exactly what you are witness to if you are confused and living in fear. That is by design. Sounds crazy, but that is what is underway in the Macro perspective, and you exist in the Micro perspective. Its happening right in front of your face and you are unable to fully understand it.

    What is all of this insanity about? Destroy the fabric of American government and culture in order to recast it in the Global U.N. controlled Agenda 21 model. 2020 is a key year in the implementation of this plan. I know, I sound like a broken record on this subject and you think Im crazy, but how do you explain what you see going on in the country and the world? You can not explain it, non of this really makes sense to you, does it? And that is by design. You think its about “Equality” and “Justice”, right? Wrong.

    And what is all of this embracing of chaos and confusion in the quest of? You watch this and this will simply explain it all to you, everything that does not make sense to you going on right now in America has a purpose: https://youtu.be/EGA18p_XerE 36 min.

    This is much bigger than what is going on in your local city and your individual life, this is a world wide effort and drive by the politically empowered and major corporations to Socialize the Globe, or Globalism. And our own American major corporations who now consider themselves “Global” citizens and are only loyal to nice neat and reliable profits are funding all of this. $2 billion dollars from corporate America into the bank account of BLM.

    And this is being executed by both the leadership of the Republican Party and the leadership of the Democrat Party, don’t fool yourselves Republicans, it was all initiated by George Bush sr. And our American Constitution is the only thing that stands in the way of this “Evolutionary” agenda being fully implemented. And that is the goal of this political and civil chaos and confusion you see before your own eyes that you find so hard to believe. But there it is all the same.

    And like it or not from what I can see there is only one person and some of the people that surround him in the political realm that stands with the people of America and retaining the Constitution as formulated and against the loss of your freedoms and liberty. Only one non politician politician. He and the people that surround him, no matter how much you personally despise him is really the only force who stands against it all. Your going to have to get over your personal dislike for him. Do you need to love or even like the only surgeon that specializes in the operation that you desperately need to save your life? In a word, NO.

    And I do not blame you if you find this email incredible and outside of your ability to understand and believe, but ask yourself: What is all of this insanity that I am witnessing going on in my country really about? I have given you my informed opinion about what is going on, and if you want to argue against my position please feel free to do so. You rationally explain to me what it is that you see before your own eyes. I’m waiting.

  • Cotour: I hope you are not merely posting comments like this on BtB. Here you are mostly preaching to the converted, and will convince few. In New York you are surrounded by millions who need to read it. I do hope it is to those you sent this.

  • m d mill

    Should doctors and nurses use low leakage electrostatic N-95 masks in infection wards?…of course, because they greatly reduce inhalation of all virus particles.
    And would they greatly reduce risk in public places when worn by highly vulnerable groups during the PEAK of an outbreak?…of course. To infer otherwise would be inane.

    Would your chance of getting infected on a high density bus or subway car or airplane at the PEAK of a flu outbreak be greatly reduced if everyone there wore a good low leakage multi-layer cloth mask and simple cloth gloves, as opposed to nothing?…of course, because transmission and inhalation of small virus laden spittle particles into the air and on surfaces would be greatly reduced (as well as hand to object to hand transmission) from people who were highly infected but did not know it (or did not care). To infer otherwise would be inane.

    When most privately owned shopping/grocery centers voluntarily require masks (these SHOULD be specified as good low leakage multi-layer masks) of all patrons/employees the probability of getting infected there and then dying even during the PEAK of an outbreak is extraordinarily small, much smaller than death from other common means. VERY few infections occur between strangers when reasonable mask wearing is implemented, even during the PEAK of an outbreak–-see Taiwan, S. Korea, Hong Kong, and other “good-mask wearing” societies. Or you can wear an electrostatic N-95 mask and gloves yourself regardless of the masking of others [unfortunately N-95 masks are not now commonly available, which is the greatest failing, and most important response of all during an outbreak].
    An even better compromise is that good quality masks are perhaps required between 4 am and noon in VITAL public areas specifically for people who are concerned/vulnerable to infection, but not required after noon for those who are not concerned/vulnerable. Private restaurants/bars and all other non VITAL areas in particular could be open mask free anytime to anyone who wishes to go, as these are not VITAL activities which vulnerable groups must be allowed to access with low risk…Otherwise,let the patron be free to decide.

    Good low leakage multi-layer masks do work to reduce transmission rates significantly in all cases (which is why doctors and nurses use them in infection wards, obviously), and they are irritating , and any mandated usage should be discontinued after the local death rate drops below some REASONABLE threshold, all without need of any mandated lock-down/quarantines and the resultant economic/social devastation.

    This is a compromise between those who support total societal lock-downs, and those who argue for no extraordinary response at all, to a FLU that is at least 5 times as deadly to vulnerable groups as common FLU viruses and may well substantially shorten the lives of nearly a quarter million Americans before it is all over.

    In short, asking a person to wear a good low leakage multi-layer mask while shopping or riding a bus for the benefit of particularly vulnerable groups during the PEAK of an outbreak is not a lot to ask during a particularly deadly pandemic…except to the mask psychotics. But any such mandates should be removed as soon as possible.

    It is interesting that the mask psychotics do not mind public decency laws that require bodies to be clothed at all times in public places (thankfully), but then go apoplectic when masking of our mouths may be asked for a short time during a particularly deadly (for certain groups) pandemic.

  • Rose

    @Max: “Bill Gates brags about the return on his money investing/gambling in health products.”
    And from that link: “Billy boy Gates admits for every $1 he spends on vaccines, he makes $20 in return.”

    Yet in the video Mr. Gates says that the $10B his foundation has spent on vaccines saved millions of lives and has provided $200B of world economic benefits. The 20:1 return is not profit returned to his foundation, but a return of world economic benefit brought about by the foundation’s work.

    My standard question for these types of posts: Were you deceived about this or were you intentionally spreading misinformation?

  • m d mill

    Re Cotour:
    I can only hope the Trump campaign will be as complete and forceful in their revelation of the leftist democrat agenda including the crippling of energy production/independence, illegal immigrant flooding and its full subsidy, voting fraud, ever expanding government control of business (ie neo-Fascism, neo-Socialism), wealth confiscation and general high taxation, racism and racialism and identity subjugation in the extreme, and the general subjugation of the competent and responsible by the incompetent ,irresponsible, clueless and violent, as you are trying to do. It would be a winning argument IMO, but am not confident they have that discipline and focus or competence to do so

  • Cotour

    I post the email that I send out to my personal email list, Democrats, Liberals, Millennials and individuals that entirely agree with me included, here on BTB in the event that someone who may be confused about what is going on might see what it is that the “Converted” understand and they connect with my interpretation. Because I do not participate in Facebook and the like many will copy what I email them and share it on their pages or forward it to their list.

    I receive many positive comments and I have been hearing this lately, ” I have never thought about things like that before”. And of course I receive responses from the hard core Trump hating Dem believers who I am grinding down through rational argument. And they are ill prepared to have a rational discussion, it is beyond them and that has to be recognized. You just will not be able to get through to many.

    And there is no yelling, no screaming, no name calling. (And I have to thank you to some degree for that for allowing me to evolve here. Thank you)

    So if someone that reads BTB thought my comment worthy and wanted to copy and forward it to the world they can. I know, like I said, I sound like a broken record and basically say the same thing in many ways but IMO it must be constantly be brought up and focused on and understood. People in America are confused and that is by design and there must be those who focus on these things and are able to make sense of it all and communicate it, no matter how disturbing and counter intuitive it may be.

    How many people see it? I do not know.

  • Cotour: Excellent. I had suspected that many of the comments you post are reprints of your distributed emails and not actually intended to this audience.

    No harm in posting here, but normally one should try to shape the argument for the audience. These emails are generally not the right approach for most of my readers. For the average New Yorker, uneducated and indoctrinated by the leftist culture of that city (whom we both know so well from personal experience), these emails however are often very appropriate.

  • Bernard

    Holy crap.
    I mean…..holy crap.
    You people are crazy.

    Gotta get out of here…brain cells dying just reading this drivel.

    Bernie out.

  • Chris

    Andrew: yes – puzzling but there it is in the CDC paper

    Cotour: From your list”
    Dems: Late term and post birth abortion.
    my further comment… I can’t understand why any Catholic or Christian for that matter can be Democrat.

  • Cotour

    Chris:

    Yes, you of course are correct, I added this to the list:

    Dems: Seek to delegitimize religion in America, all a part of the Marxist necessary destruction of our culture and Constitution.

    The list is long.

  • Edward

    m d mill,
    Thank you for your concern, but your recommendations all assume that masks and gloves work as you intend. As used by the public, neither do. Masks were designed for particles and bacteria that are larger than viruses, and gloves become contaminated the first time that they touch a contaminated surface. People wear gloves then scratch themselves all the time, and often believe that their gloves replace hand washing. In hospitals and cleanrooms the workers are trained to work within these limits, and it can be very irritating to wear these items without being able to scratch their noses (for example).

    In the wild, people not only have no idea how to keep their protective equipment uncontaminated, most don’t seem to know that they need to. Any that know that these items are one-and-done rarely treat them that way, probably because we don’t have the huge budgets that hospitals and corporations have in order to afford the cleanliness levels that are necessary. One-and-done is why doctors and nurses use them successfully in infection wards, obviously, and they wash their hands extremely thoroughly with seriously sterilizing cleansers before putting on their gloves and masks.

    To compare how members of the general public use masks and gloves to how the medical profession does is a false comparison. The professionals are professional and the public are amateurs.

    The use of masks and gloves by the general public is futile at best and is definitely counterproductive, as it gives people like you, m d mill, a false sense of security. Those who feel protected when they are not are far more likely to violate lockdown mandates and to do things that are otherwise ill advised, as your attitude toward the topic informs us.

  • wayne

    Edward-
    Good stuff.

  • Cotour

    WHAT IS CURRENTLY UNDRWAY IN AMERICA?

    Why are there concerns about government forcing obedient compliance? Why is there chaos and rioting in the streets? I found this short piece to be very informative.

    https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2020/09/10/the-united-states-its-constitution-have-two-months-left/

    “Bob Woodward writes that Trump’s Secretary of Defense, General James Mattis, and Trump’s Director of National Intelligence, Dan Coats, spoke together about taking “collective action” to remove President Trump from office. General Mattis said Trump is “dangerous. He’s unfit.”

    “This is the same thing that the Generals and the CIA said about President John F. Kennedy. When Generals and the CIA say that a president is unfit and dangerous, they mean he is dangerous to their budget. By “unfit” they mean he is not a reliable cold warrior who will keep hyping America’s enemies so that money keeps pouring into the military/security budget. By serving defense contractors instead of their country, generals end up very wealthy.

    Both Kennedy and Trump wanted to normalize relations with Russia and to bring home US troops involved in make-war operations overseas that boost the profits of defense contractors. “

  • wayne

    “Seven Days in May”
    1964
    https://youtu.be/KGo3zMSVLcQ
    7:27

  • Max

    Rose said;
    “Mr. Gates says that the $10B his foundation has spent on vaccines saved millions of lives and has provided $200B of world economic benefits. The 20:1 return is not profit returned to his foundation, but a return of world economic benefit brought about by the foundation’s work.

    My standard question for these types of posts: Were you deceived about this or were you intentionally spreading misinformation?”

    Neither is the simple answer.
    I have been accused of cherry picking, because I post what seems to be interesting to me or informative. I also try to post the link so as to not cause misinformation/deception. No, I did not put those words in Bill Gates mouth. Nor can I take credit for him saying in a Ted talk that he wants to reduce the population of the planet. He’s also talked about how he admired his father and run his foundation together. He wants to continue his father’s dreams which include Planned Parenthood. (Lawyer/defender of) His father has been described in Wikipedia; “former Seattle Mayor Norman Rice has characterized Gates’ core values as “social justice and economic opportunity”
    Gates (SR.) is co-author, with Chuck Collins, of the book Wealth and Our Commonwealth: Why America Should Tax Accumulated Fortunes, a defense of the policies promoted by the estate tax.[9][10]
    He’s on many boards including the director of Costco wholesale.
    The foundations he has funded are in line with his stated goals. Quite frankly, he puts his money where his heart is. With Warren Buffett. A great way to invest money while hiding behind a tax free foundation.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Giving_Pledge
    Worth 1.2 trillion.

    Off his foundations website;
    Our partners include, but are not limited to the following:

    Agence de Médecine Préventive (AMP)
    Sabin Vaccine Institute
    Coalition Against Typhoid (CaT)
    Centers for Disease Control and Prevention(CDC)
    Clinton Health Access Initiative (CHAI)
    Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance
    International Centre for Diarrhoeal Disease Research, Bangladesh (icddr,b)
    International Vaccine Institute (IVI)
    Johns Hopkins University
    PATH
    University of Maryland, Baltimore
    UNICEF
    University of Virginia
    World Health Organization (WHO)
    This list excludes specific vaccine manufacturers, with whom we partner most often through product development partners.

    Rose, I totally agree with you on your summation that we never should let the health department rule us. When I see that Gates has formed a partnership with the WHO and the CDC and the Clintons, red flags and warning bells go off in my head like crazy.

    (Resistance is futile)

    You said, “Mr. Gates says that the $10B his foundation has spent on vaccines saved millions of lives and has provided $200B of world economic benefits.”

    If you take an eradicated disease and re-infect hundreds of thousands of children, this will boost economic benefits because of the money needed is to take care of all those people.

    “In 2017, the World Health Organization (WHO) reluctantly admitted that the global explosion in polio is predominantly vaccine strain.The most frightening epidemics in Congo, Afghanistan, and the Philippines, are all linked to vaccines. In fact, by 2018, 70% of global polio cases were vaccine strain. In 2014, the Gates Foundation funded tests of experimental HPV vaccines… 404
    (my link to the website is no longer good) ah, found the website they were quoting?

    https://thefullest.com/gates-globalist-vaccine-agenda-a-win-win-for-pharma-and-mandatory-vaccination/

    “Global public health advocates around the world accuse Gates of steering WHO’s agenda away from the projects that are proven to curb infectious diseases: clean water, hygiene, nutrition, and economic development. The Gates Foundation only spends about $650 million of its $5 billion dollar budget on these areas. They say he has diverted agency resources to serve his personal philosophy that good health only comes in a syringe.”
    Robert Kennedy has a lot to say on the subject as well, he’s particularly upset that they spent millions on a vaccination development and testing and billions on promotion.
    By the way, vaccinations are not a drug so they don’t have to go through double blind testing. The drug companies, by law, are not responsible for their product whether it works, or it does not. The vaccine court will take care of vaccine injury cases that can be proven. Taxpayer funded and out of money.
    Kennedy took the government to court and won, they have not done the government oversight in the 30 years since the mandate was given.
    https://www.worldhealth.net/news/rfk-jr-wins-case-against-government-vaccine-safety-violations/
    This reminds me of Chiron in 2004 infected everyone with the bacteria that causes bladder infections. Ejected with their flu shot. That was when you could cure the flu with antibiotics from the doctor.

    Chiron’s whole story
    https://www.pharmamanufacturing.com/articles/2004/187/
    Hospitals are the leading cause of death in the United States — claiming 251,000 lives every year, more than respiratory disease, accidents, stroke and Alzheimer’s. https://www.learntherisk.org/

    Now you know why I am so cynical.
    This is all I can post for now, lunch is over and I have to go back to work. I’ll find more information if you want it later.

  • F16 Guy

    I was proudly kicked out of a novelty shop in Leadville, Co this weekend for not wearing a mask.
    I told them to contact my lawyer, Robert Zimmerman! (just kidding.)

    Here’s another great article on the foolishness of wearing a mask:

    If Masks Work, Why Don’t They WORK?
    https://townhall.com/columnists/scottmorefield/2020/09/14/if-masks-work-why-dont-they-work-n2576139

    “the CDC now admits that, with or without masks, 15 minutes of close contact with an infected person will spread the virus. And given the fact that it has ALWAYS taken 15 minutes of close contact with an infected person to spread the virus, that means masks are generally useless. “

  • Ted

    TWIMC:

    The mask thing does seem politically motivated and not based on any actual science. I read that the actual COVID19 virus is .004 microns in size. Short of a biological warfare gas mask/suit, there is nothing commercial out there that will stop it. My issue is the exceptions to the mask policy and that these are not being observed. I have a breathing issue (both lungs) certified by my doctors. I carry the letters with me when I go out (without my mask, as I can’t wear one without passing out). I have been thrown out of IKEA, LL Bean, book stores, Best Buy (only one store – the others were very accommodating), the Maine Mall, etc.. They follow the mask policies, but not the exceptions. This leads me to believe that masks are only for optics and politics, not actual prevention. Even the N-100 mask can’t stop the virus, so why would cloth?

    If you want to wear a mask, wear it. But have a little compassion for people not wearing them, they may be disabled and can’t wear a mask. But, snowflakes and liberals seem to only care about themselves and telling the world what to do. Look at the science.

    Sincerely,

    Ted

  • Edward

    Ted wrote: “This leads me to believe that masks are only for optics and politics, not actual prevention.

    This is exactly what our fearful leaders said when they first imposed mask madness mandates, a few months after they begged us to not wear masks. They know that the truth is masks do not work as a preventative for the Wuhan Plague but have imposed them so that they can get a sense of how many people are willing to blindly obey their whimsical, ineffective dictates, like the lockdowns that virtually no one has obeyed since the end of April.

    Hand washing is by far more effective at prevention, and this has been known for decades — actually, since the late 19th century, when a doctor realized that contaminated hands were the primary cause of illness and fatalities in his hospital’s maternity ward. However, our fearful leaders have imposed no hand washing mandates, but there is no visible means of confirmation of our conformation to such a mandate, so they do not bother with such a more effective mandate.

    On the other hand, the federal government and seven states have allowed their governors to get away with actively sending Wuhan plague patients into the most vulnerable populations, resulting in tens of thousands of deaths — over 11,000 in New York alone. These governors are not considered murderers, by the authorities, but there have been calls for those who do not wear masks to be charged and tried for murder — even though no victim can be identified.

    Those who believe in the mask mandate should also continue to follow the lockdown mandate and should not leave their homes except for emergencies or to obtain food. How awful would it be for someone to die because you wanted a little exercise, a haircut, or went to work?

    As a side note, today is the six month anniversary for my area’s lockdown, shutdown, smackdown, Great Oppression decree from my county, five nearby counties, and the City of Berkeley. We, here, are in week 27 of our Great Oppression.

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